Sonic R is kind of a technical marvel. The fact it was rushed out in the door in a few months on a system notoriously hard to work with, and it looks THAT GOOD is not only testament to how talented the Traveller’s Tales team were but also that the Saturn was not to be underestimated tech wise
That’s really interesting, I didn’t realise it was a rushed release. Explains why it was so short. It’s a shame the game wasn’t as amazing as its visuals
@@thegamelounge659same here. From hearing the dev info from the main coder it seems they worked quite a lot of time on it so I am surprised to hear it was rushed
@@thegamelounge659 Wait, Was the Sega Saturn the equivalent to the first Sony PlayStation? Although the PlayStation had much more games to choose from, I always thought the Saturn had better graphics
A good list. VF2 and Sega Rally in particular really blew me away back then. VF2 was immaculately programmed - highest resolution, great models, great gameplay, and it loaded fast.
I was a massive fan of mode 7 on the super Nintendo. Sega Saturn has SUPER MODE 7.the infinite psuedo 3d backgrounds of vdp2 were very impressive when the devs used it properly.
With a tilted horizon the nasty problem of calculating 1/z every pixel pops up again. Now with a pixel clock of 6 MHz and a CPU clock of 30 MHz or so, we have got 5 cycles. How accurate does it even need to be? Convert to float, look up 1/mantissa, linear interpolation, this multiplication iteration know from PSX, back to int.
One underrated thing about the Saturn is how it never felt like a "2D machine" or "3D machine", but a mixture of both. It did a better job of transitioning the 2D era into the 3D era than other consoles around the time tried to, like the Nintendo DS did for handhelds a decade later.
Yes, the N64 in particular really just had hardware that focused on 3D capabilities at the expense of 2D visuals. The PS wasn’t bad at 2D, but no where near the Saturns capabilities.
Yep! The Quads as opposed to triangles didn’t help either. Add to that all the internal fighting. Huge shame because it was such a creative company back then
As a massive sega Saturn fan, and sega fan in general, I made my own list of best looking 3d games on Saturn after looking through the entire library myself! I really don’t mind the short draw distance and frame rate of Daytona USA, it looks decent on its own and the controls are really great! There’s a lot to say but for now, Saturn was like home arcade console!
I’m actually with you there. The controls and sense of speed in the original Daytona on Saturn were brilliant. And the terrible draw distance in many ways actually made it a bit more exciting 😂
Guys, i played Daytona USA and Daytona Usa CE and Sega Rally with the Saturn official Steering wheel, and first Daytona was kinda unplayable, while the CE Edition, was much more easy to manage... By the way, i still think that whatever issues had first Daytona, still overall ( even above the Dreamcast 2001 Edition), i think is the conversion that more than anyone else, brought the atmosphere of the original on my home television. The effect of the Shadows above the glasses of the cars, which made fell in love of the original was intact, and also the physic of the drift, was the same of the original... Too bad, that the range of freedom on the drive was really small , and if you wanted to succeed, you had to learn 100% the trajectories that the game want you to choose, otherwise you had Zero chance to succeed the race, specially at the last course. Daytona CE, was more natural to drive than the original, and gave the player a bit more of Freedom on the interpretation of the race, but at the price to loose all of that details that made the original game so peculiar. Shadows on the glasses were so reduced to seem not Daytona Usa anymore, and even drifting was not possible anymore. Ugly graphic, ugly gameplay, but framerate more stable and big reduction of pop up (still not totally disappear)... Best Racing game on Saturn, indeed Sega Rally, with the Saturn wheel, even if that wheel was far away to be a nice wheel to use, it was perfect calibrated for Sega Rally, and trust me guys, play Sega Rally with that wheel, even if no force feedback and no pedals, was allow the player to drift exactly like in the coin op version... That game, is probably the best home conversion of on coin op of all time. Because even years later, games like Daytona Usa 2001 , Sega Rally 2, were not able to offer a similar experience ( not only for the missing release of wheel on Dreamcast, but they were also different games than the original cabinet ), maybe Ferrari 355 challenge was an amazing conversion, but still not possible to exploit the potential because no proper control system available... So Sega Rally for Sega Saturn, still on the first place.
@@thegamelounge659 it was really sensitive and difficult to learn as control System, but once get the confidence, with some game extremely accurate ( nothing above Sega Rally indeed ), but later on, i tried on PsX few Steering wheels, and none of them, was accurate as the ugly Sega Saturn official Steering wheel... An amazing toy for his time, it was ashamed that no pedals possibile to integrate, but i had great time with that 😃
@@stefanomazzarello4771es cierto lo que dices, pero Dreamcast tuvo mejores y más cantidad de juegos de conducción,.metropolis, Sega gt, v rally, 24 horas lemans, etc,etc.
The main problem with Daytona USA at Saturn's launch wasn't the fact that it wasn't an arcade perfect port. It was that the game was clearly rushed to get it on shelves in time to give Saturn owners something to play with Virtua Fighter (which also was rushed). The draw distance on that game was extremely bad and the frame rate was choppy, which is terrible for a game known for smooth gameplay.
@@drunkensailor112 it was well documented at the time that it was rushed - the PAL version was horrendous, huge letterbox black borders and even pro Sega magazines struggled with it. Upgraded versions redeemed it somewhat, but it's unfair when this happens as who wants to buy a game twice.
@@drunkensailor112 Daytona USA came out on the same date in North America as the Sega Saturn. In fact, it also released as a launch title in PAL territories as well. So I'm not sure what you're talking about.
Sega had so much potential in their arcade development team and I always bought their home systems just to be disappointed, I'm still a SEGA fan do to the nostalgic memories
Yes, although saying that the Dreamcast was pretty much a Naomi board. The mega drive did come up short vs the Super Scaler System32 arcade stuff and the Saturn was significantly inferior to the Model 2
@@thegamelounge659 Me personally had to take time off due to family and work. But the rest of the bunch just finished the localisation of stellar assault, also with spectacular dub and adding the integration of the mission stick, wich really makes the playing the game more fun. Ps: Just is relative: it was in February
Great list! If you ever plan on revisiting the topic, check the following games that are mostly less talked about: • Advanced World War: Last of the Millennium - Great 3D battle scenes, you'll have to understand/get used to the Japanese menus to test the battles, but it's worth it. Underwater, air, forests and night scenes with tailor-made visuals, utilizing the hardware optmimally. • Steep Slope Sliders - A console game by Cave that was ported over to the arcade ST-V board, basically a Saturn inside an arcade cabinet, smooth performance and good visuals • Digital Dance Mix: Namie Amuro - Possibly the best 3D models and smoothest motion-captured movement in the entire 5th gen, not exactly a game, but worth a look for that alone. • Sega Worldwide Soccer '98 - Smooth performance, great visuals with transparent shadows and an overall fun game. • Gungriffon I and II - Another tailor-made title(s), smooth performance, great visuals and fun game. • Grandia - Still the best version to this day, the PS port suffers from many cutbacks and the HD "remasters" are based on the PS version, and they lack the Digital Musem content, still exclusive to the Saturn, comparisons online puts the "remasters" to shame when side by side with the Saturn original. • Fighters Megamix - While not retaining the hi-res mode, the performance is smooth and the models are reworked, probably the best or among the 3 best 3D fighters of the 5th gen. • Winter Heat - Not hi-res as DecAthlete because the game requires varied terrain, but on par on the performance/fun factor and visuals • Shining Force III: Scenario 3 - All scenarios have great 3D battle scenes, but the latest scenario improves even more, particles, auras, improved models and is a showpiece on how a CD-based console can switch engines from the top-down view to a 3D scene like a cartridge game, without noticeable loadings. I suggest appling Paul_Met's/Meduza's Team patch which removes the black borders devs added to make it look cinematic, but it looks better without them. • Radiant Silvergun - Another tailor-made 3D game for the console Honorrable mentions: • Mobile Suit Gundam Side Story - Similar to Gungriffon in gameplay • Road Rash - Performs the best among the 32-bit consoles • Independence Day - Has better performance compared to the PS release • Dragon Ball Z: Idainaru Dragon Ball Densetsu - Runs at 30~FPS, even when 6 characters are on screen where the PS runs at 20 and below, specially when the screen is very busy • Alien Trilogy - The PS version is better visually and has more buttons that the game benefits from, but the game still runs smoothly on the Saturn even though the developers couldn't figure out how to use the dual CPU archicture of the console, a case many, many games suffered from, so it runs using only one CPU, still a great port. • Fighting Vipers • Sega Touring Car Championship • Sonic 3D World (Sonic Jam) - Interesting draw distance technique, great visuals and colors, the engine could well be used to create many 3D platformers on the console. • Thunderstrike 2 - Free roaming helicopter 3D shooter with great performance and decent draw-in techniques • Touge King the Spirits 2 • Wing Arms • World League Soccer '98 - On par with Worldwide Soccer 98, amazing for being a third party game, has the best Goal/net effect of the era, probably. • Zen Nihon Pro Wres featuring Virtua - Well made 3D models and movements • Zero Divide: The Final Conflict - Strange art direction, features great 3D models and performance • Pro Yakyuu Greatest Nine '98: Summer Action - Full 3D baseball game that stayed in Japan • Goiken Muyou: Anarchy in the Nippon - It's said to use the same engine as Virtua Fighter 2, a comedic take on the fighting genre, there are good 3D models and interesting scenarios. • Soviet Strike - Performs great and has a few effects not present on the PS version, it's also the only version which supports analog controls • Thunder Force V - The superior version, the PS feels like a port, which is still great, but the Saturn was probably the target hardware on this one • Drift King Shutokou Battle '97 - Higher resolution and runs smoother than the PS1 counterpart, features a better and more stable visual, whereas the PS has a stretched look and warping. • Need for Speed - Possibly the 3D racing game with the farther draw distance on the Saturn, maybe even other consoles it was released on.
Amazing post, see this is the reason I make these videos. So good to get this sort of feedback and discover more games. Certainly many of these games I will check out. Many thanks
Yes I think I was harsh on Duke Nukem mainly because I already had 2 SLavedriver engine games in there (Powerslave/Quake) and Quake was full 3D. Duke Nukem on the Saturn was incredible too though
Absolutely fantastic list! I think the original panzer dragon bug too, and stellar assault should get an honorable mention. I think panzer dragon saga should be a little bit higher because the water stages and boss battles in Uru totally make up for it. If we factor in homebrew, Irreal and Hellslave should get a mention.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed. Great suggestions. I had to Google Hellslave. I hope Irreal develops into a full game. Stellar Assault also looks great, another Saturn game never to leave Japan!
I certainly would have loved to see how far the system could be pushed if they had supported it for longer. The footage of Shenmue on Saturn looks incredible!
wow !! seeing Sonic R 's graphics and taking into account that all the previous SEGA generation's fanbase( MegaDrive's owners such as myself) simply loved Sonic , i can only imagine what a huge boost could SonicR give to Saturn's sales if it was included among the released titles !! --now that i think of it i get a little depressed when thinking how things could end-up completely differently for the SEGA Saturn !!
Agree it’s one of the many mistakes SEGA made with the Saturn. Not taking advantage of Sonic’s huge popularity and getting out a Sonic game on or close to launch.
Thanks, most of these games were actually captured using Yaba Sanshiro on Android. Certainly not the best or most accurate. Mednafen is usually my go to. The Beetle Saturn Core in Retroarch is a good front end.
Nice video Some games not featured that could make the list: Grandia...those 3D towns in a watercolour painting style are beautiful, really push the Saturn's limits Enemy Zero is a very atmospheric first person survival horror, the tunnel sections when walking around are as smooth as butter Fear Effect is Sega's Resident Evil clone, set underwater on submarines and stuff...very nice to look at Keriotosse! is a weird arena combat game, its most like Poy Poy on PSX, a bit like Power Stone. Has really clean, crisp 3D, almost looks like a late era PSX game
Thanks for the comment. All great games, though I have never heard of Keriotosse. I had to Google that and it looks great! I never played Grandia on Saturn. Only the PS. It’s fully translated now so need to check it out.
That's a solid list for the 3D side. I would have mentioned Pandemonium maybe. The Saturn is my fav Sega system. Burning Rangers is awesome and I would like to have Panzer Dragoon Saga sometime. The fighting games on the Saturn though, like Night warriors, the xmen and Marvel etc... super fun. RPGs like Shining the Holy Ark are well worth having too.
Pandemonium is a great shout actually, I guess in my head I saw it as a 2D scroller which is obviously wrong. Yes the Saturn was a great system. There is more appreciation for it now than when it was in production.
Esse excelente vídeo 👏👏👏 , serve para mostrar aqueles que falavam que o saturno não trabalhava bem com o 3D. Nas mãos certas os jogos ficavam lindos , bem polidos e com uma fluidez e jogabilidade incrível , saturno era uma verdadeira máquina pena que foi mal trabalhado pela própria sega 😢🙌🙌
"Still impressive by todays standards" i hope this is a joke XD Its an ugly ripple effect that was ugly even back then....get a grip fkng blind fanboys
Have to say I agree with the list, but would have appreciated an honourable mention of that Shenmue Saturn demo that was released. Assuming that was running on genuine home hardware, that would have knocked the socks off anything else released on the platform.
I went with games that are playable but I totally agree with you, the demo looks incredible. I hold out small hope that one day a playable demo is released
according to the rumors it was a playable demo but run at 15 fps or less making the gameplay way to slow to players, actuallt there are official snes games with terrible fps so Im glad they didnt released saturn shenmue
people use the argument "but sega didnt know 3d would be the future" cannot understand this, cause they were doing 3d games for years before the saturn for arcades, and im not even counting the superscalers games.
Yes I totally agree. Virtua Fighter was huge in the arcades and had fantastic initial sales. I think they potentially underestimated how much people wanted 3D at home. Thinking there would be one more round of 2D consoles and then when they saw the PS specs knew that they were in trouble.
Always disliked the double standards. "PS2&3 only looked worse because they were hard to code for" "Saturn was bad at 3D because it was hard to code for" Always baffled me how people never saw the irony in these kinds of statements.
Many of these games were ported to Windows 95 and it is interesting to see how good the Saturn ones look compared to them. VF2 for example, you are limited to 30fps on Windows and even with the direct3d patch the Saturns textures look way better.
I'm still blown away by Quake. I know there are other, probably better looking games (Quake can be a bit ugly artistically, lots of shades of brown). But the fact that they could get it running competently on the Saturn is just insane. I know the system got ports but typically they were from arcades with boards that were similar to the hardware of the Saturn. But Quake was built from the bottom up to run on PCs of the era (both computers that had and lacked a GPU. This was back in the days when having a GPU was something pretty much only gamers would pony up the money for, most computers just ran graphics off the CPU). Porting Quake to the Saturn must have been one of the most difficult ports of that generation.
Yes the conversion was incredible. People didn’t think it was possible. In fact a team gave up development on the PlayStation. Lobotomy managed to do it. Incidentally they also ported the game to the PSX and it ran well apparently but they couldn’t find a publisher
Quake Saturn is not a port of the Quake engine you fool. Its built on the ExhumedPowerslave engine that was created for the Saturn specifically...the Saturn couldnt even dream of running the Quake engine lmao
@@thegamelounge659 The m0r0n writing the OP implies its the Quake engine in his comment...and you followed through with it, learn to use the language properly then.
Perhaps you are right. Even if the OP was wrong I don’t think it matters too much. There have actually been minor errors in a few of my videos and it’s great when people with more knowledge come on the comments and inform/help out, it’s a big reason I makes these videos.
Yes, wouldn’t even be much work as the PC version of SR2 was good and could be ported. Sega Rally REVO was on 360/PC and SEGA Rally could be remade using the model 2 release
Very good list! All amazing visually, and in most cases, really good games. You should check Touge king the spirits 2, very good looking racing game, with nice lighting.
Sonic R is truly the best looking Saturn 3D game. The color palette, the map polygon count is really high and it just looks normal. Unlike most Saturn game which are full of very washed out pixelated textures. But I do think that Dead or Alive should take 2. Shame it didn't come out in NA or EU.
Is it true that even the 3D games on the Sega Saturns really weren't polygons but actually pixels!?!?! I heard that somewhere. That the 3D games on Saturn were really something more like pyramid shaped pixels....that they did something similar to what Nintendo did to Donkey Kong Country or Super Mario RPG on the SNES. Is that true? But I do admit the 2D games on the saturn looked and ran amazing. The animation and and sprites were quite amazing for 1995
Thanks for the comment, so the Saturn used Quads (Squares) to produce 3D. This is generally not preferred as triangles give you more flexibility (For example, 2 triangles together make a square.). It didn’t mean the Saturn couldn’t do triangles, a square with a zero length side is a triangle but it meant programming was more difficult. Add to this the tricky architecture of the machine and the Saturn was tough to work with.
Sonic Jam did look great, I guess I didn’t include it because it was never a full game and was just a tech demo. Agree on Steep Slope actually just missed out. I captured the footage for it though and it still looks good
Nice list, now I feel like I should grab the Saturn out of storage. I'm no hardcore collector, but have a number of the games you mentioned: Quake, Exhumed, Nights and Wipeout.
@@thegamelounge659 Luckily I have a 19" Trinitron for that purpose. Currently have my Dreamcast and Master system hooked up (slight Sega bias here, evidently ;-) )
Saturn 3D games stand up against PS1 contemporary graphics. I'm not talking about crappy ports from titles built on PS1 firstly, but exclusive first party games. I have always wondered what Saturn could have shown if the console had lasted until the early 2000s.
The choices are great, but maybe a few more minutes or stages of each game would have better impact, mostly when you talk about Sonic R's last stage. It doesn't take much time to get there to capture the video, and it would make your point a lot better.
I don't think the criticism on Daytona was wrong. That game shouldn't have been published for Saturn at all. Maybe, a version with polygons graphics like Virtua Racing, but with longer draw distance and all the effects and driving style of the arcade version.
I think it played great, but trying to make it like the arcade was wrong. Like you say suitable cutbacks would have been preferable. That being said the game is actually a lot of fun.
I would have put Nights at no 1, good list though. Shame that only Sega could really take advantage of the SS's hardware for 3D games. If more games with visuals on par with Virtua Fighter 2 came out on the SS, more people would have been confident in the Saturn's 3D capabilities, and probably wouldn't have jumped ship for the PS1, I know someone who actually did that 😭
Yeah I feel the same. I actually think the PS2 is a good comparison for this. Initial games on PS2 were generally inferior to Dreamcast. Poor documentation and a tricky system to code for being the main reason. Yet over time the system was worked on and we ended up with God Of War 2.
I would not call Panzer Dragoon Saga a hidden gem. No my friend, that is a highly sought after game and for good reason. It is absolutely phenomenal from beginning to end. Unfortunately, we will likely never see a remake because the source code has been lost...can you believe that? Now, that doesn't mean it may never happen it's just unlikely. Addendum- There is hope on the horizon for Panzer Dragoon Saga. There is a Japanese company that has successfully brought back a game from the 5th generation that also had its source code lost. That game was Klonoa for the Playstation...I believe. If they can do it for one game why not others? Here's to hoping.
Good list. I would add Street Racer by Ubisoft. Possibly take out Burning Rangers. Would Radiant Silvergun be included? It does have 3D graphics despite being a 2D shootemup!
I think most Saturn games blended 2D elements due to the systems architecture. I didn’t realise all the backgrounds in VF2 were 2D, in fact the ground was too. But yes given the 2D structure of Radiant Silvergun I didn’t include it
@@thegamelounge659 Personally, when VDP2 produces a 'Mode 7' style plane, I'd definitely define that as a 3D graphical element/feature. It's really no less 3D than the Saturn's polygons, which were generated using distorted sprites. The paralax backgrounds in VF2, yes they were 2D. That's my take anyway.
Another one I forgot - Scorcher is a Saturn exclusive futuristic motorbike racer with amazing 3D visuals. It never caught on - amongst other issues it was super hard.
Oh come on, VF2 dumps on Sonic R from a great height. Also, no SEGA Rally? it had some of the best graphics on the system, especially some of the road textures (for the time).
SEGA Rally is in there, it’s a fantastic looking game.. I love VF2, it’s right up there in the list. I think Sonic R is a little more ambitious 3D wise, VF2 used 2D backgrounds.
These videos look really cleaned up. If you’re not utilizing some kind of upscaling software, then some of these games will not reflect what we’re looking at here
@@thegamelounge659 I figured it was something that was smoothing over the rough edges. I think it looks fantastic, but when you’re ranking graphics it may be a little misleading
Now call me crazy... But there has to be a team somewhere dedicated to hack the actual Daytona USA from Saturn and optimize most of the things the OG game lacks from the Arcade... I'm sure of it.
I was a Saturn guy and didn't have a PlayStation until I got a PS2 in 2002, and I have a lot of these games, but man...outside of a few, the list shows me the Saturn was indeed crap at polygons, if this is the top 10. Powerslave, VF2 and VO were boss, though.
The Saturn was certainly more of a top end 2D machine but I think the Saturn had a lot of untapped potential was a more capable machine than it managed to be given the low sales numbers. The Unreal tech demo really shows this IMO. I disagree though, I think many of the games in the top 10 look fantastic. Sega Rally, Wipeout 2097, Quake, Sonic R, all very nice looking games.
Part of me wishes that Sega was all unified back in the day, and we can have a powerhouse 2D add-on in the 32X, and Sega could have focused on polygons on the Saturn. Alas.
Haha someone else said a similar comment and I assumed they had misquoted me. I actually had to re-watch the video now you are the second person to comment to see what I said/meant. I just meant it from an accessibility perspective. Sadly it’s only ever been released on the Saturn and there were only 1,000 copies in Europe 😢. I guess I used the wrong terminology there, should have just said ‘Gem’ 😂😂😂
Interesting you say that. I have just been playing Sonic R from the Gems collection on PS2 for my next video. I think it loses some of the charm with the cleaned up visuals and extra draw distance on PC. Of course could just be that was the version I played.
Please avoid emulator footage. If you will use it, at least use mednafen. Those high resolution yabause footages does not represent how the games look.
True, I think these are set at 2x. I always use emus for capture as I don’t have any way to capture not through HDMI. Usually I go with Mednafen and a CRT shader (CRT Royale) but this was actually captured on an Android device and the RA version on it had an old Mednafen core which didn’t support Android.
Sad that a severely specced down version of Wipeout XL makes it onto the list of best graphics. It’s only impressive by the fallacy of low expectations. At least a the NTSC-J version is much closer to the PS1 in terms of frame rate but it remains a much rougher looking game. The Saturn peaked with VF2 - we never saw an evolution of those graphics. You either got a sterile look without shading or lighting effects at a high resolution and stellar frame rate, or you got some lighting and additional polygons but with heavy concessions of resolution and frame rate. We’ll never know if these were the actual limits of the Saturn or the practical limitations of its complicated architecture and the fact that no one spent any resources trying to get the most out of the hardware. Even Sonic R - which looks great - was rushed and developed by a tiny team. I wonder what could have been with a FF7 like investment into getting the most out of it - and then again and again. Or, VF2 was the limit and we got there very early. We’ll never know. That said, Wipeout XL is a tough one given how much better the PS version looks.
I partially agree with you. I think at this stage there is no doubt the PS was the more able machine. But like the PS2 I think the Saturn could have been a lot better as developers worked to understand the hardware. Some of the tech demos you see like Unreal look stunning nowadays. I still think Wipeout XL on Saturn is superb. Yes not as good as the PS version but certainly still a great game
@ funny - I only saw the Unreal Saturn home brew after I posted this. Looks great and certainly hints towards the Saturn having plenty retained potential for 3D that we haven’t seen. Imagine what a full team with proper insights and experience on the system could have done. PS - play Wipeout XL (J) with a composite cable and you get real transparency ;).
Some of the games looked good but ran really poorly, especially when compared to PS1. Wipeout is a prime example. PS1 version still looked better than the Saturn version with a bunch of effects Saturn couldn't do, but the real point was it ran a rock solid 30FPS. The Saturn version you show here ran 20FPS. To even get it looking decent it had to run 2/3 the speed of the PS1 version.
Yes Wipeout certainly wasn’t as good as the PS1 version but the Saturn version was still impressive. The PS was a great 3D console for the time. The Saturn was a great 2D system, but was still about to put out some great 3D
Bug Too! Was on the shortlist actually. I thought the 3D elements were actually quite simple which is why I left it out. Although love the game though. Shame about the brutal difficulty! STHA I never played… one to check out
Yeah I left it out because I already had Exhumed and Quake in there which ran on the same engine but the more I think about it I think it should have been in
Visually yes, but the slowdown was a bit much for me. Although you are right. I didn’t own Burning Rangers until a lot later on so perhaps I’m slightly nostalgic for Sonic R
Any 3D racing game that didn't match up to Sega Rally standard was beneath Playstation quality. The PAL release of Daytona was a stain on the console, and the pants looking Virtua Racing/Virtua Fighter all helped Sony to record sales with their virgin console release. Clearly had all the racing games been done with the same 'hard coded' machine code libraries Sega did bespoke for Sega Rally they too would have helped lift sales of the machine up to PS1 console sale levels for the next 6-12 months. This is all covered in the God of mid 90s gaming magazines, C+VG. If people pay £100 more for Saturn they NEED Daytona to be £300 PS1 console Ridge Racer quality. Daytona CCE is garbage due to changes from the arcade gameplay/handling mechanics. I still remember peoples disappointment on their faces when they tried the game on import Saturns in CEX, every time. Those who didn't own a console got a PS1, Daytona was the last straw for many who thought VF and VR were shit. Saturn never recovered sales until the trio of Virtua Cop, Virtua Fighter 2 and Sega Rally hit the shelves. No other Saturn games looked as amazing as VF2 and Rally and no other games helped console sales.
I’ll never forget the bundle I got which was the Saturn with SEGA Rally, Virtua Fighter 2 and UEFA Euro 96 (Actua Soccer on PS & in US), simply phenomenal
ggod list. many not include croc like game and never select sonic r number 1. my picks will be tokyo highway battle car gmae. steallar assoult ss. darklight conlict. space gaimes. need for speed.resident evil.deep fear. jp ost world. wings arms. house of dead. alien tirlogy. ı dont chose die hard and virtua cop and daytona.
This guy deletes comments when he is proved wrong. Daytona USA circuit edition isnt japanese only. I have the pal versions of both. Look it up and school him
Really not sure what you mean, I replied to your comment but with a SEGA Retro website link so maybe that caused and issue. So Circuit edition is the JP version of Daytona CCE. Was released slightly later with a few tweaks: “Though the western Champion Circuit Edition and Japanese Circuit Edition are by-and-large the same game, Circuit Edition adds further tweaks to the formula, creating the definitive copy of Daytona USA for the Saturn. Circuit Edition extends the draw distance even further, swaps some textures and allows the user to set the time of day in which to race in, whether that be night, dusk or morning. On top of this, the arcade soundtrack is now an option, and new drift mechanics have been implemented, making the game control more similarly to the original arcade version.”
I think Panzer Dragoon RPG have The best graphics on the system. It looks great and runs decent enough. Burning Rangers is technically impressive but the whole game runs atrociously bad and the visuals are very unstable. The game looks as it's going to collapse anytime.
Totally agree on Burning Rangers, if it ran well then it would easily be the best looking game on the system. The reality is it exposes many of the systems 3D shortcomings
I have to disagree about Burning Rangers. I think it runs very well. The character animation is stunning and the first couple levels run very smooth. THe later underwater levels with the VDP2 background effects can bit a jaggy; though the game is still amazing because of how fast it moved.
@@costumeninja1914 that's not possible in this dimension. The game runs bad from the very beginning until the end. It's playable overall but not smooth at all. I like the game though.
WHY BURNING RANGERS IS NOT TOP 1 BUT THE SONIC GAME WITH THE WORST SONIC MODEL YES???? (sonic jam and 3d blast had a better one, there are photos out there)
Burning Rangers is beautiful, but for me personally there was just too much slowdown. Ok the Sonic model in Sonic R wasn’t great. But the overall visuals were fantasyic
@@thegamelounge659 Sonic Jam and the special stages of 3d blast used more imoressive lighting effects and look better, burning Ranger was practically an early sega dreamcast Game 😭
Loved virtua fighter 1,hated vf2,looked alright,didnt like the music and the ai was a bit off making the game easier than it should have been and the extra options amounted to not much at all especially the learn mode,fighters megamix and vipers are better 3d fighters,vf2 has higher resolution and good framerate but the game is more hollow to me .. vf kids on the other hand is astounding looking on saturn,i think way better looking than vf2 Daytona 1 .. i agree,amazing game,draw distance didnt bother me or my mates at release and the framerate was fine .. game still great to play because it plays just like the arcade,doesnt look the best these days but its still a belter of a game,wayyy better than ridge racer 1 and 2,ridge racer had terrible hit detection,a poor out side car view,garbage on rails ai cars and a much more limited track to race .. i always thought that anyone that says ridge racer is better is bias or off their nut Riven is another great game on saturn,i think it uses a higher resolution than the ps1 and is very close to the pc game,uses less discs than ps1 and loads faster too,audio less compressed Bug one and bug too are great games,i adore the pastel colour backgrounds and clean texture work in bug,,bug too is also quite impressive and seems to be doing alot more on the screen and gameplay jas been sped up and tightened and clockwork knight 2 does some fancy graphical effects that emulators still dont reproduce properly,i think it might have layered transparency,there are mist/fog effects that i have never seen in any other saturn,ps1 game before,runs smooth and looks very sharp
I always forget about VF Kids, so many of my friends loved that game back in the day. They would all play VF Kids and Street Fighter Alpha 2! Riven is another game that I have never played on Saturn. Is it worth playing now? Bug and Clockwork Knight are superb games sadly stuck stranded on the Saturn and sadly I don’t see either ever making a return. Both of the games sequels were significantly better in my opinion. Better difficulty curves and significantly improved visuals.
Sonic R is kind of a technical marvel. The fact it was rushed out in the door in a few months on a system notoriously hard to work with, and it looks THAT GOOD is not only testament to how talented the Traveller’s Tales team were but also that the Saturn was not to be underestimated tech wise
That’s really interesting, I didn’t realise it was a rushed release. Explains why it was so short. It’s a shame the game wasn’t as amazing as its visuals
"THAT GOOD" XD
It looks like fkng garbage XD like 99% of 3D Saturn games....what a fool
@@thegamelounge659same here. From hearing the dev info from the main coder it seems they worked quite a lot of time on it so I am surprised to hear it was rushed
Never had a Saturn back in the day but love the console's vibe
It was a great console for me. If you just enjoyed what was there and didn’t envy the PlayStation titles
Goated console.
@@thegamelounge659
Wait, Was the Sega Saturn the equivalent to the first Sony PlayStation?
Although the PlayStation had much more games to choose from, I always thought the Saturn had better graphics
A good list. VF2 and Sega Rally in particular really blew me away back then. VF2 was immaculately programmed - highest resolution, great models, great gameplay, and it loaded fast.
Totally agree, VF2 holds up vs it’s Arcade counterpart and even the PS2 version released on a console 7 years newer.
I was a massive fan of mode 7 on the super Nintendo. Sega Saturn has SUPER MODE 7.the infinite psuedo 3d backgrounds of vdp2 were very impressive when the devs used it properly.
Yes, I wasn’t a huge fan of Mode 7. However the extra power of the Saturn and how it could be utilised meant that it was very impressive.
With a tilted horizon the nasty problem of calculating 1/z every pixel pops up again. Now with a pixel clock of 6 MHz and a CPU clock of 30 MHz or so, we have got 5 cycles. How accurate does it even need to be? Convert to float, look up 1/mantissa, linear interpolation, this multiplication iteration know from PSX, back to int.
One of my favourite pieces of trivia about the Saturn was that each on screen character in vf2 was managed by it's own cpu
I never knew this, that’s actually pretty cool
Travellers Tales its like Treasure games, they squeezed the capabilities of the current console
True, they did Toy Story on the Mega Drive
@@thegamelounge659 and Sonic 3D Blast on both consoles. In fact the Saturn ver. Has the best special stages of all versions (Megadrive, Saturn, PC).
One underrated thing about the Saturn is how it never felt like a "2D machine" or "3D machine", but a mixture of both. It did a better job of transitioning the 2D era into the 3D era than other consoles around the time tried to, like the Nintendo DS did for handhelds a decade later.
Yes, the N64 in particular really just had hardware that focused on 3D capabilities at the expense of 2D visuals. The PS wasn’t bad at 2D, but no where near the Saturns capabilities.
The sega saturn was a beast, the real problem was just how hard it was to develope for! Great vid!!
Yep! The Quads as opposed to triangles didn’t help either. Add to that all the internal fighting. Huge shame because it was such a creative company back then
Nothing would have mattered with proper marketing, I was a huge Sega kid and didn’t even know about the Saturn, I went from Genesis to Dreamcast 😅
Accidentally come across your review, love Saturn ❤, thanks
You are welcome, thanks for the comment
As a massive sega Saturn fan, and sega fan in general, I made my own list of best looking 3d games on Saturn after looking through the entire library myself! I really don’t mind the short draw distance and frame rate of Daytona USA, it looks decent on its own and the controls are really great! There’s a lot to say but for now, Saturn was like home arcade console!
I’m actually with you there. The controls and sense of speed in the original Daytona on Saturn were brilliant. And the terrible draw distance in many ways actually made it a bit more exciting 😂
Guys, i played Daytona USA and Daytona Usa CE and Sega Rally with the Saturn official Steering wheel, and first Daytona was kinda unplayable, while the CE Edition, was much more easy to manage...
By the way, i still think that whatever issues had first Daytona, still overall ( even above the Dreamcast 2001 Edition), i think is the conversion that more than anyone else, brought the atmosphere of the original on my home television.
The effect of the Shadows above the glasses of the cars, which made fell in love of the original was intact, and also the physic of the drift, was the same of the original...
Too bad, that the range of freedom on the drive was really small , and if you wanted to succeed, you had to learn 100% the trajectories that the game want you to choose, otherwise you had Zero chance to succeed the race, specially at the last course.
Daytona CE, was more natural to drive than the original, and gave the player a bit more of Freedom on the interpretation of the race, but at the price to loose all of that details that made the original game so peculiar.
Shadows on the glasses were so reduced to seem not Daytona Usa anymore, and even drifting was not possible anymore.
Ugly graphic, ugly gameplay, but framerate more stable and big reduction of pop up (still not totally disappear)...
Best Racing game on Saturn, indeed Sega Rally, with the Saturn wheel, even if that wheel was far away to be a nice wheel to use, it was perfect calibrated for Sega Rally, and trust me guys, play Sega Rally with that wheel, even if no force feedback and no pedals, was allow the player to drift exactly like in the coin op version... That game, is probably the best home conversion of on coin op of all time.
Because even years later, games like Daytona Usa 2001 , Sega Rally 2, were not able to offer a similar experience ( not only for the missing release of wheel on Dreamcast, but they were also different games than the original cabinet ), maybe Ferrari 355 challenge was an amazing conversion, but still not possible to exploit the potential because no proper control system available... So Sega Rally for Sega Saturn, still on the first place.
Great comment, I actually picked up a when quite cheaply a few years back but only tested it on a game called Hardcore 4x4
@@thegamelounge659 it was really sensitive and difficult to learn as control System, but once get the confidence, with some game extremely accurate ( nothing above Sega Rally indeed ), but later on, i tried on PsX few Steering wheels, and none of them, was accurate as the ugly Sega Saturn official Steering wheel... An amazing toy for his time, it was ashamed that no pedals possibile to integrate, but i had great time with that 😃
@@stefanomazzarello4771es cierto lo que dices, pero Dreamcast tuvo mejores y más cantidad de juegos de conducción,.metropolis, Sega gt, v rally, 24 horas lemans, etc,etc.
The main problem with Daytona USA at Saturn's launch wasn't the fact that it wasn't an arcade perfect port. It was that the game was clearly rushed to get it on shelves in time to give Saturn owners something to play with Virtua Fighter (which also was rushed). The draw distance on that game was extremely bad and the frame rate was choppy, which is terrible for a game known for smooth gameplay.
Yeah, it’s a shame because the controls felt really good. If they had added that control scheme to Daytona Circuit Edition it would have been great
Daytona wasn't rushed. It came out many months after the launch
@@drunkensailor112 it was well documented at the time that it was rushed - the PAL version was horrendous, huge letterbox black borders and even pro Sega magazines struggled with it. Upgraded versions redeemed it somewhat, but it's unfair when this happens as who wants to buy a game twice.
@@r20bym rushed for what? A march launch? Because that's when it launched and the pal release was just badly optimized
@@drunkensailor112 Daytona USA came out on the same date in North America as the Sega Saturn. In fact, it also released as a launch title in PAL territories as well. So I'm not sure what you're talking about.
Sega had so much potential in their arcade development team and I always bought their home systems just to be disappointed, I'm still a SEGA fan do to the nostalgic memories
Yes, although saying that the Dreamcast was pretty much a Naomi board. The mega drive did come up short vs the Super Scaler System32 arcade stuff and the Saturn was significantly inferior to the Model 2
Thanks for this video. And thanks for your kind words towards our bukk slash translation :)
Thanks for watching! The Bulk Slash translation is fantastic. Are you working on any other projects?
@@thegamelounge659
Me personally had to take time off due to family and work. But the rest of the bunch just finished the localisation of stellar assault, also with spectacular dub and adding the integration of the mission stick, wich really makes the playing the game more fun.
Ps:
Just is relative: it was in February
Ahh yes a lot of people on this channel have recommended Stellar Assault. Will give it a try
Great list! If you ever plan on revisiting the topic, check the following games that are mostly less talked about:
• Advanced World War: Last of the Millennium - Great 3D battle scenes, you'll have to understand/get used to the Japanese menus to test the battles, but it's worth it. Underwater, air, forests and night scenes with tailor-made visuals, utilizing the hardware optmimally.
• Steep Slope Sliders - A console game by Cave that was ported over to the arcade ST-V board, basically a Saturn inside an arcade cabinet, smooth performance and good visuals
• Digital Dance Mix: Namie Amuro - Possibly the best 3D models and smoothest motion-captured movement in the entire 5th gen, not exactly a game, but worth a look for that alone.
• Sega Worldwide Soccer '98 - Smooth performance, great visuals with transparent shadows and an overall fun game.
• Gungriffon I and II - Another tailor-made title(s), smooth performance, great visuals and fun game.
• Grandia - Still the best version to this day, the PS port suffers from many cutbacks and the HD "remasters" are based on the PS version, and they lack the Digital Musem content, still exclusive to the Saturn, comparisons online puts the "remasters" to shame when side by side with the Saturn original.
• Fighters Megamix - While not retaining the hi-res mode, the performance is smooth and the models are reworked, probably the best or among the 3 best 3D fighters of the 5th gen.
• Winter Heat - Not hi-res as DecAthlete because the game requires varied terrain, but on par on the performance/fun factor and visuals
• Shining Force III: Scenario 3 - All scenarios have great 3D battle scenes, but the latest scenario improves even more, particles, auras, improved models and is a showpiece on how a CD-based console can switch engines from the top-down view to a 3D scene like a cartridge game, without noticeable loadings. I suggest appling Paul_Met's/Meduza's Team patch which removes the black borders devs added to make it look cinematic, but it looks better without them.
• Radiant Silvergun - Another tailor-made 3D game for the console
Honorrable mentions:
• Mobile Suit Gundam Side Story - Similar to Gungriffon in gameplay
• Road Rash - Performs the best among the 32-bit consoles
• Independence Day - Has better performance compared to the PS release
• Dragon Ball Z: Idainaru Dragon Ball Densetsu - Runs at 30~FPS, even when 6 characters are on screen where the PS runs at 20 and below, specially when the screen is very busy
• Alien Trilogy - The PS version is better visually and has more buttons that the game benefits from, but the game still runs smoothly on the Saturn even though the developers couldn't figure out how to use the dual CPU archicture of the console, a case many, many games suffered from, so it runs using only one CPU, still a great port.
• Fighting Vipers
• Sega Touring Car Championship
• Sonic 3D World (Sonic Jam) - Interesting draw distance technique, great visuals and colors, the engine could well be used to create many 3D platformers on the console.
• Thunderstrike 2 - Free roaming helicopter 3D shooter with great performance and decent draw-in techniques
• Touge King the Spirits 2
• Wing Arms
• World League Soccer '98 - On par with Worldwide Soccer 98, amazing for being a third party game, has the best Goal/net effect of the era, probably.
• Zen Nihon Pro Wres featuring Virtua - Well made 3D models and movements
• Zero Divide: The Final Conflict - Strange art direction, features great 3D models and performance
• Pro Yakyuu Greatest Nine '98: Summer Action - Full 3D baseball game that stayed in Japan
• Goiken Muyou: Anarchy in the Nippon - It's said to use the same engine as Virtua Fighter 2, a comedic take on the fighting genre, there are good 3D models and interesting scenarios.
• Soviet Strike - Performs great and has a few effects not present on the PS version, it's also the only version which supports analog controls
• Thunder Force V - The superior version, the PS feels like a port, which is still great, but the Saturn was probably the target hardware on this one
• Drift King Shutokou Battle '97 - Higher resolution and runs smoother than the PS1 counterpart, features a better and more stable visual, whereas the PS has a stretched look and warping.
• Need for Speed - Possibly the 3D racing game with the farther draw distance on the Saturn, maybe even other consoles it was released on.
Amazing post, see this is the reason I make these videos. So good to get this sort of feedback and discover more games. Certainly many of these games I will check out. Many thanks
I can't believe there was a Namie Amuro game! 😮😮😮😮
Nobody seems to ever include Stellar Assault SS in these types of video, even though it features gorgeous 3D visuals at rock-solid 60fps.
To be honest I have never played the Saturn version. Only the 32X. But I understand there is an amazing Saturn translation to English.
They really should include it. SA has amazing visuals.
Great list. I would of had Duke Nukem 3D towards the top of the list, personally. A very impressive conversion.
Yes I think I was harsh on Duke Nukem mainly because I already had 2 SLavedriver engine games in there (Powerslave/Quake) and Quake was full 3D. Duke Nukem on the Saturn was incredible too though
Absolutely fantastic list! I think the original panzer dragon bug too, and stellar assault should get an honorable mention. I think panzer dragon saga should be a little bit higher because the water stages and boss battles in Uru totally make up for it. If we factor in homebrew, Irreal and Hellslave should get a mention.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed. Great suggestions. I had to Google Hellslave. I hope Irreal develops into a full game. Stellar Assault also looks great, another Saturn game never to leave Japan!
Great video, thanks! 🍻
Thanks for the comment Tony!
Sega Saturn was a 3D beast of it's generation.
I certainly would have loved to see how far the system could be pushed if they had supported it for longer. The footage of Shenmue on Saturn looks incredible!
Totally agree! Scorcher was also a pretty impressive looking game!
It’s a game I discovered a lot later but actually loads of fun and the physics are great
wow !! seeing Sonic R 's graphics and taking into account that all the previous SEGA generation's fanbase( MegaDrive's owners such as myself) simply loved Sonic , i can only imagine what a huge boost could SonicR give to Saturn's sales if it was included among the released titles !!
--now that i think of it i get a little depressed when thinking how things could end-up completely differently for the SEGA Saturn !!
Agree it’s one of the many mistakes SEGA made with the Saturn. Not taking advantage of Sonic’s huge popularity and getting out a Sonic game on or close to launch.
Great video quality, you did.
Well done.
Which sega saturn emulator did you use to make this video, bro?
Thanks, most of these games were actually captured using Yaba Sanshiro on Android. Certainly not the best or most accurate. Mednafen is usually my go to. The Beetle Saturn Core in Retroarch is a good front end.
liquid dnb is alwyas good!! glad to see it making a comeback after many years
Nice video
Some games not featured that could make the list:
Grandia...those 3D towns in a watercolour painting style are beautiful, really push the Saturn's limits
Enemy Zero is a very atmospheric first person survival horror, the tunnel sections when walking around are as smooth as butter
Fear Effect is Sega's Resident Evil clone, set underwater on submarines and stuff...very nice to look at
Keriotosse! is a weird arena combat game, its most like Poy Poy on PSX, a bit like Power Stone. Has really clean, crisp 3D, almost looks like a late era PSX game
Thanks for the comment. All great games, though I have never heard of Keriotosse. I had to Google that and it looks great!
I never played Grandia on Saturn. Only the PS. It’s fully translated now so need to check it out.
@@thegamelounge659 Grandia was designed specifically for the Sega Saturn hardware, and looks better than the PlayStation version.
That's a solid list for the 3D side. I would have mentioned Pandemonium maybe. The Saturn is my fav Sega system. Burning Rangers is awesome and I would like to have Panzer Dragoon Saga sometime. The fighting games on the Saturn though, like Night warriors, the xmen and Marvel etc... super fun. RPGs like Shining the Holy Ark are well worth having too.
Pandemonium is a great shout actually, I guess in my head I saw it as a 2D scroller which is obviously wrong. Yes the Saturn was a great system. There is more appreciation for it now than when it was in production.
It’s actually Criminal just how underrated the Sega Saturn was! 😢
Totally agree. With a bit more time and export from Devs it could have lived so much longwr
Esse excelente vídeo 👏👏👏 , serve para mostrar aqueles que falavam que o saturno não trabalhava bem com o 3D. Nas mãos certas os jogos ficavam lindos , bem polidos e com uma fluidez e jogabilidade incrível , saturno era uma verdadeira máquina pena que foi mal trabalhado pela própria sega 😢🙌🙌
I was always amazed by the flowing water in Panzer Dragoon II, still impressive by today's standards, in my opinion.
Yes both games look incredible. I’m still amazed SEGA has left the franchise dormant since Orta
"Still impressive by todays standards" i hope this is a joke XD Its an ugly ripple effect that was ugly even back then....get a grip fkng blind fanboys
Una obra maestra
@@USERA15 Cagada maestra
@@jhkuno88 el Panzer dragón 2?, es un juegazo, tanto en música, como gráficos, cantidad de enemigos en un mismo plano, etc.
Have to say I agree with the list, but would have appreciated an honourable mention of that Shenmue Saturn demo that was released. Assuming that was running on genuine home hardware, that would have knocked the socks off anything else released on the platform.
I went with games that are playable but I totally agree with you, the demo looks incredible. I hold out small hope that one day a playable demo is released
according to the rumors it was a playable demo but run at 15 fps or less making the gameplay way to slow to players, actuallt there are official snes games with terrible fps so Im glad they didnt released saturn shenmue
Yes I think it was certainly the vision Yu Suzuki had on the Dreamcast. Still as a massive Shenmue fan this would be incredible to see
The legend of oasis!
people use the argument "but sega didnt know 3d would be the future" cannot understand this, cause they were doing 3d games for years before the saturn for arcades, and im not even counting the superscalers games.
Yes I totally agree. Virtua Fighter was huge in the arcades and had fantastic initial sales. I think they potentially underestimated how much people wanted 3D at home. Thinking there would be one more round of 2D consoles and then when they saw the PS specs knew that they were in trouble.
Always disliked the double standards.
"PS2&3 only looked worse because they were hard to code for"
"Saturn was bad at 3D because it was hard to code for"
Always baffled me how people never saw the irony in these kinds of statements.
I think if you consider where the PS2/PS3 ended up when properly utilised it makes it a shame the Saturn was never really pushed to its limits.
@@thegamelounge659PlayStation plays CD . With a better PS2 , Xbox would be like Zune
I fully agree with the number 1 choice.
Thanks Carlos, appreciate you taking the time to comment
Many of these games were ported to Windows 95 and it is interesting to see how good the Saturn ones look compared to them. VF2 for example, you are limited to 30fps on Windows and even with the direct3d patch the Saturns textures look way better.
I often wanted to try out the windows ports but generally heard they were inferior. I did try and install Virtua Cop but couldn’t get it running.
Can someone remind of the drum 'n' bass track used on this video. Saturn looks sooo underrated!
Sounds like Roni Size or LTJ Bukem 😊
I'm still blown away by Quake. I know there are other, probably better looking games (Quake can be a bit ugly artistically, lots of shades of brown). But the fact that they could get it running competently on the Saturn is just insane. I know the system got ports but typically they were from arcades with boards that were similar to the hardware of the Saturn. But Quake was built from the bottom up to run on PCs of the era (both computers that had and lacked a GPU. This was back in the days when having a GPU was something pretty much only gamers would pony up the money for, most computers just ran graphics off the CPU). Porting Quake to the Saturn must have been one of the most difficult ports of that generation.
Yes the conversion was incredible. People didn’t think it was possible. In fact a team gave up development on the PlayStation. Lobotomy managed to do it. Incidentally they also ported the game to the PSX and it ran well apparently but they couldn’t find a publisher
Quake Saturn is not a port of the Quake engine you fool. Its built on the ExhumedPowerslave engine that was created for the Saturn specifically...the Saturn couldnt even dream of running the Quake engine lmao
I don’t think I said it was 🤣
@@thegamelounge659 The m0r0n writing the OP implies its the Quake engine in his comment...and you followed through with it, learn to use the language properly then.
Perhaps you are right. Even if the OP was wrong I don’t think it matters too much. There have actually been minor errors in a few of my videos and it’s great when people with more knowledge come on the comments and inform/help out, it’s a big reason I makes these videos.
Amazing console, Seeegaaa.
Yep, so many memories
intro music?
Hey, it’s Heartlands from the MSR soundtrack
Take a look: there is no texture warping on the Sega Saturn!
True, emulation can fix the PSX issue. In fact the PSX image scaled up looks really nice but real hardware is a mess
Metropolis Street Racer music !!!
I wish they would release a Sega Rally Collection with updated graphics amd draw distance.
Yes, wouldn’t even be much work as the PC version of SR2 was good and could be ported. Sega Rally REVO was on 360/PC and SEGA Rally could be remade using the model 2 release
@@thegamelounge659 and release it on the switch.
Very good list! All amazing visually, and in most cases, really good games. You should check Touge king the spirits 2, very good looking racing game, with nice lighting.
Interesting, I have never heard of this. Will check it out
Sonic R is truly the best looking Saturn 3D game. The color palette, the map polygon count is really high and it just looks normal. Unlike most Saturn game which are full of very washed out pixelated textures.
But I do think that Dead or Alive should take 2. Shame it didn't come out in NA or EU.
Yes sadly too late in the Saturns lifecycle. A fantastic port!
I agree 100%, it’s stunning! Deffo my favourite 3D title on Saturn
handles like trash though
Daytona USA is truly a superb racer on this system.
Yes, I think people sometimes forget the Saturn version isn’t a bad effort seeing as it was a conversion of a £20k arcade caninet
Is it true that even the 3D games on the Sega Saturns really weren't polygons but actually pixels!?!?! I heard that somewhere. That the 3D games on Saturn were really something more like pyramid shaped pixels....that they did something similar to what Nintendo did to Donkey Kong Country or Super Mario RPG on the SNES. Is that true? But I do admit the 2D games on the saturn looked and ran amazing. The animation and and sprites were quite amazing for 1995
Thanks for the comment, so the Saturn used Quads (Squares) to produce 3D. This is generally not preferred as triangles give you more flexibility (For example, 2 triangles together make a square.). It didn’t mean the Saturn couldn’t do triangles, a square with a zero length side is a triangle but it meant programming was more difficult. Add to this the tricky architecture of the machine and the Saturn was tough to work with.
@@thegamelounge659right, the way it’s often explained is that it utilized distorted sprites,
Steep Slope Sliders and Winter Heat looked good at the time I remember and another arcade style racing game but Your list is very good IMO. Sonic Jam?
Sonic Jam did look great, I guess I didn’t include it because it was never a full game and was just a tech demo. Agree on Steep Slope actually just missed out. I captured the footage for it though and it still looks good
Nice list, now I feel like I should grab the Saturn out of storage. I'm no hardcore collector, but have a number of the games you mentioned: Quake, Exhumed, Nights and Wipeout.
Playing on a real Saturn on a CRT is still incredible. Sadly I no longer own a CRT and emulation is so convenient
@@thegamelounge659 Luckily I have a 19" Trinitron for that purpose. Currently have my Dreamcast and Master system hooked up (slight Sega bias here, evidently ;-) )
I think Croc looks impressive! Was it released before Mario 64?
No Mario 64 came first, but Croc was the first Mario 64 style 3D game on the Saturn or PS1. I still think it looks great!
Saturn 3D games stand up against PS1 contemporary graphics. I'm not talking about crappy ports from titles built on PS1 firstly, but exclusive first party games. I have always wondered what Saturn could have shown if the console had lasted until the early 2000s.
Totally agree, I think ultimately the PS was the better 3D system, but the Saturn could have done so much more in my opinion.
The choices are great, but maybe a few more minutes or stages of each game would have better impact, mostly when you talk about Sonic R's last stage. It doesn't take much time to get there to capture the video, and it would make your point a lot better.
Appreciate the comment. True, I finished Sonic R in a day when I originally got it. Will certainly take this onboard as I make more videos
Great Choice! 60fps Clockwork Knight also belongs here….
Yeah, the second game in particular looks great
I don't think the criticism on Daytona was wrong. That game shouldn't have been published for Saturn at all.
Maybe, a version with polygons graphics like Virtua Racing, but with longer draw distance and all the effects and driving style of the arcade version.
I think it played great, but trying to make it like the arcade was wrong. Like you say suitable cutbacks would have been preferable. That being said the game is actually a lot of fun.
These being captured from the real Hardware or emulation?
Most of these are emulation. Some are real hardware but it’s so much easier nowadays for YT footage to capture using emulation.
I must say Sonic R’s graphics blew my mind back then, and it still does now! Just goes to show what the Saturn is capable of in skilled hands.
Yeah, an some of the visual effects in the game were phenomenal.
@@thegamelounge659absolutely! think im going to play some Sonic R now actually lol
I would have put Nights at no 1, good list though. Shame that only Sega could really take advantage of the SS's hardware for 3D games. If more games with visuals on par with Virtua Fighter 2 came out on the SS, more people would have been confident in the Saturn's 3D capabilities, and probably wouldn't have jumped ship for the PS1, I know someone who actually did that 😭
Yeah I feel the same. I actually think the PS2 is a good comparison for this. Initial games on PS2 were generally inferior to Dreamcast. Poor documentation and a tricky system to code for being the main reason. Yet over time the system was worked on and we ended up with God Of War 2.
I would not call Panzer Dragoon Saga a hidden gem. No my friend, that is a highly sought after game and for good reason. It is absolutely phenomenal from beginning to end. Unfortunately, we will likely never see a remake because the source code has been lost...can you believe that? Now, that doesn't mean it may never happen it's just unlikely.
Addendum- There is hope on the horizon for Panzer Dragoon Saga. There is a Japanese company that has successfully brought back a game from the 5th generation that also had its source code lost. That game was Klonoa for the Playstation...I believe. If they can do it for one game why not others? Here's to hoping.
the appearing from nowhere road in daytona usa hurt my eyes......
😂😂😂 yes, it wasn’t too bad on a 14 inch screen 25 years ago
Good list. I would add Street Racer by Ubisoft. Possibly take out Burning Rangers. Would Radiant Silvergun be included? It does have 3D graphics despite being a 2D shootemup!
I think most Saturn games blended 2D elements due to the systems architecture. I didn’t realise all the backgrounds in VF2 were 2D, in fact the ground was too. But yes given the 2D structure of Radiant Silvergun I didn’t include it
@@thegamelounge659 Personally, when VDP2 produces a 'Mode 7' style plane, I'd definitely define that as a 3D graphical element/feature. It's really no less 3D than the Saturn's polygons, which were generated using distorted sprites. The paralax backgrounds in VF2, yes they were 2D. That's my take anyway.
Yeah I would agree with that. Although on a CRT with the layering I never knew it.
Another one I forgot - Scorcher is a Saturn exclusive futuristic motorbike racer with amazing 3D visuals. It never caught on - amongst other issues it was super hard.
Sonic R 👍
100%, the game is too short, the controls are quirky. But visually it is stunning
Oh come on, VF2 dumps on Sonic R from a great height. Also, no SEGA Rally? it had some of the best graphics on the system, especially some of the road textures (for the time).
SEGA Rally is in there, it’s a fantastic looking game.. I love VF2, it’s right up there in the list. I think Sonic R is a little more ambitious 3D wise, VF2 used 2D backgrounds.
My really only gripe with Daytona USA is the horrible pop in. The track being drawn in right in front of you
Yes draw distance was a real issue. It was too much
I have 30 consoles. I've been collecting for years. My least used console is the Saturn. I need to remedy that. Thanks for the last.
Thanks for the comment, 30 consoles is impressive!
These videos look really cleaned up. If you’re not utilizing some kind of upscaling software, then some of these games will not reflect what we’re looking at here
The games are not upscaled. They are running at native resolution. However. I do use a shader (ScaleFX). Personally I like the look but many don’t.
@@thegamelounge659 I figured it was something that was smoothing over the rough edges. I think it looks fantastic, but when you’re ranking graphics it may be a little misleading
True, I tend to use CRT-Royale filters now if I am capturing for Youtub
Now call me crazy... But there has to be a team somewhere dedicated to hack the actual Daytona USA from Saturn and optimize most of the things the OG game lacks from the Arcade...
I'm sure of it.
I’d love to see this if true! Not something I’m aware of though…
sonic r is incredibly underrated
Yeah, it’s a shame it didn’t have a few more tracks
Die Hard Arcade.... we played the shit out of it
Yep, awesome game and a great multiplayer
I was a Saturn guy and didn't have a PlayStation until I got a PS2 in 2002, and I have a lot of these games, but man...outside of a few, the list shows me the Saturn was indeed crap at polygons, if this is the top 10. Powerslave, VF2 and VO were boss, though.
The Saturn was certainly more of a top end 2D machine but I think the Saturn had a lot of untapped potential was a more capable machine than it managed to be given the low sales numbers. The Unreal tech demo really shows this IMO. I disagree though, I think many of the games in the top 10 look fantastic. Sega Rally, Wipeout 2097, Quake, Sonic R, all very nice looking games.
Part of me wishes that Sega was all unified back in the day, and we can have a powerhouse 2D add-on in the 32X, and Sega could have focused on polygons on the Saturn. Alas.
Yes, the creativity from the company at the time was crazy. Shame the business side wasn’t as strong!
Where is Shining Force 3?
Faltou Resident Evil,Pandemonium, Fighters Megamix, e Grandia na lista
Sonic r has a wonderfuls graphics
Yes, it’s one of the best looking 32-Bit games in my opinion!
@@thegamelounge659 me too
Panzer is a hidden gem lol hidden from whom it’s a very popular and well talked about ip lol hidden gem haha Mario 64 is a hidden gem too I guess
Haha someone else said a similar comment and I assumed they had misquoted me. I actually had to re-watch the video now you are the second person to comment to see what I said/meant. I just meant it from an accessibility perspective. Sadly it’s only ever been released on the Saturn and there were only 1,000 copies in Europe 😢. I guess I used the wrong terminology there, should have just said ‘Gem’ 😂😂😂
@@thegamelounge659 dude ur good just caught my ear i obviously watch and love your content. Just busting ur chops
I'd still say the PC version of Sonic R is better than the Saturn version... The PC version is even on the Sonic Gems Collection on the Gamecube...
Interesting you say that. I have just been playing Sonic R from the Gems collection on PS2 for my next video. I think it loses some of the charm with the cleaned up visuals and extra draw distance on PC. Of course could just be that was the version I played.
Please avoid emulator footage. If you will use it, at least use mednafen. Those high resolution yabause footages does not represent how the games look.
True, I think these are set at 2x. I always use emus for capture as I don’t have any way to capture not through HDMI. Usually I go with Mednafen and a CRT shader (CRT Royale) but this was actually captured on an Android device and the RA version on it had an old Mednafen core which didn’t support Android.
Didn't think I'd find a purist on a video like this. Dude has had enough lmao.
@@kentaronagame7529 it's about presenting the game exactly like they are, but you can't understand it.
Grandia should have been on there.
Yeah I love the game and it’s great to look at. It’s more 2D sprite based to me though.
Goingnto 1000 subscribers ihaaaaaa
It’s a slow journey 😂
Subscribed!
Sad that a severely specced down version of Wipeout XL makes it onto the list of best graphics. It’s only impressive by the fallacy of low expectations.
At least a the NTSC-J version is much closer to the PS1 in terms of frame rate but it remains a much rougher looking game.
The Saturn peaked with VF2 - we never saw an evolution of those graphics. You either got a sterile look without shading or lighting effects at a high resolution and stellar frame rate, or you got some lighting and additional polygons but with heavy concessions of resolution and frame rate.
We’ll never know if these were the actual limits of the Saturn or the practical limitations of its complicated architecture and the fact that no one spent any resources trying to get the most out of the hardware.
Even Sonic R - which looks great - was rushed and developed by a tiny team.
I wonder what could have been with a FF7 like investment into getting the most out of it - and then again and again.
Or, VF2 was the limit and we got there very early. We’ll never know.
That said, Wipeout XL is a tough one given how much better the PS version looks.
I partially agree with you. I think at this stage there is no doubt the PS was the more able machine. But like the PS2 I think the Saturn could have been a lot better as developers worked to understand the hardware. Some of the tech demos you see like Unreal look stunning nowadays. I still think Wipeout XL on Saturn is superb. Yes not as good as the PS version but certainly still a great game
@ funny - I only saw the Unreal Saturn home brew after I posted this. Looks great and certainly hints towards the Saturn having plenty retained potential for 3D that we haven’t seen.
Imagine what a full team with proper insights and experience on the system could have done.
PS - play Wipeout XL (J) with a composite cable and you get real transparency ;).
100%, loads of developers say the Saturn had a lot of untapped potential. I guess we will never really know
I preferred Sega Rally Championship to Daytona.
Yes 100% on Saturn. What about the Arcade?
@@thegamelounge659 Arcade Daytona was cool when they hooked many units together.
I’ll throw Manx TT superbike on there
Yeah great game! Shame only 2 tracks, would have loved a Couple more Saturn only tracks
@@thegamelounge659 That’s true but in terms of 3d graphics it’s definitely one of the best looking for saturn in my opinion
❤
Some of the games looked good but ran really poorly, especially when compared to PS1. Wipeout is a prime example. PS1 version still looked better than the Saturn version with a bunch of effects Saturn couldn't do, but the real point was it ran a rock solid 30FPS. The Saturn version you show here ran 20FPS. To even get it looking decent it had to run 2/3 the speed of the PS1 version.
Yes Wipeout certainly wasn’t as good as the PS1 version but the Saturn version was still impressive. The PS was a great 3D console for the time. The Saturn was a great 2D system, but was still about to put out some great 3D
I like how you added two not well known gems.... the Last Bronx and Virtual-On. Virtual-on on dreamcast looked great but it lost its sparkle some how.
I know what you mean. The crunchy large polygon Model 2/Saturn version of VO has a lot more personality for me
Psx strongly betting 3d
A good bet in retrospect 😆
Great list, i just don't agreed with the order line up.
Thanks! Would be interested to get your view?
Shame not to see Bug or Shining the holy ark on the list
Bug Too! Was on the shortlist actually. I thought the 3D elements were actually quite simple which is why I left it out. Although love the game though. Shame about the brutal difficulty! STHA I never played… one to check out
Dude you missed Duke nukem.
Yeah I left it out because I already had Exhumed and Quake in there which ran on the same engine but the more I think about it I think it should have been in
resident evil?
Great looking game, but for this list I focused on 3D visuals, and since most of RE is pre-rendered backgrounds I did overlook it.
Burnning Rangers is way better then Sonic R back in 1997 i had both
Visually yes, but the slowdown was a bit much for me. Although you are right. I didn’t own Burning Rangers until a lot later on so perhaps I’m slightly nostalgic for Sonic R
Any 3D racing game that didn't match up to Sega Rally standard was beneath Playstation quality. The PAL release of Daytona was a stain on the console, and the pants looking Virtua Racing/Virtua Fighter all helped Sony to record sales with their virgin console release. Clearly had all the racing games been done with the same 'hard coded' machine code libraries Sega did bespoke for Sega Rally they too would have helped lift sales of the machine up to PS1 console sale levels for the next 6-12 months. This is all covered in the God of mid 90s gaming magazines, C+VG. If people pay £100 more for Saturn they NEED Daytona to be £300 PS1 console Ridge Racer quality. Daytona CCE is garbage due to changes from the arcade gameplay/handling mechanics. I still remember peoples disappointment on their faces when they tried the game on import Saturns in CEX, every time. Those who didn't own a console got a PS1, Daytona was the last straw for many who thought VF and VR were shit. Saturn never recovered sales until the trio of Virtua Cop, Virtua Fighter 2 and Sega Rally hit the shelves. No other Saturn games looked as amazing as VF2 and Rally and no other games helped console sales.
I’ll never forget the bundle I got which was the Saturn with SEGA Rally, Virtua Fighter 2 and UEFA Euro 96 (Actua Soccer on PS & in US), simply phenomenal
Winter heat is in high resolution as well
Interesting, I thought it was like a VF2 -> Fighters Megamix type thing
@@thegamelounge659 Nope, it's exactly the same engine
ggod list. many not include croc like game and never select sonic r number 1. my picks will be tokyo highway battle car gmae. steallar assoult ss. darklight conlict. space gaimes. need for speed.resident evil.deep fear. jp ost world. wings arms. house of dead. alien tirlogy. ı dont chose die hard and virtua cop and daytona.
Thanks for the response, yes some great games there. Stellar Assault is one of really love to try!
@@thegamelounge659 yes english voiced recently.
Amazing, will take a look
This guy deletes comments when he is proved wrong. Daytona USA circuit edition isnt japanese only. I have the pal versions of both. Look it up and school him
Really not sure what you mean, I replied to your comment but with a SEGA Retro website link so maybe that caused and issue. So Circuit edition is the JP version of Daytona CCE. Was released slightly later with a few tweaks:
“Though the western Champion Circuit Edition and Japanese Circuit Edition are by-and-large the same game, Circuit Edition adds further tweaks to the formula, creating the definitive copy of Daytona USA for the Saturn. Circuit Edition extends the draw distance even further, swaps some textures and allows the user to set the time of day in which to race in, whether that be night, dusk or morning. On top of this, the arcade soundtrack is now an option, and new drift mechanics have been implemented, making the game control more similarly to the original arcade version.”
I think Panzer Dragoon RPG have The best graphics on the system. It looks great and runs decent enough.
Burning Rangers is technically impressive but the whole game runs atrociously bad and the visuals are very unstable. The game looks as it's going to collapse anytime.
Totally agree on Burning Rangers, if it ran well then it would easily be the best looking game on the system. The reality is it exposes many of the systems 3D shortcomings
I have to disagree about Burning Rangers. I think it runs very well. The character animation is stunning and the first couple levels run very smooth. THe later underwater levels with the VDP2 background effects can bit a jaggy;
though the game is still amazing because of how fast it moved.
@@costumeninja1914 that's not possible in this dimension. The game runs bad from the very beginning until the end. It's playable overall but not smooth at all.
I like the game though.
Tomb raider,The Best!!!!
The first game was legendary!
Sonic R ???? 🤣🤣🤣
Are you a fan?
WHY BURNING RANGERS IS NOT TOP 1 BUT THE SONIC GAME WITH THE WORST SONIC MODEL YES???? (sonic jam and 3d blast had a better one, there are photos out there)
Burning Rangers is beautiful, but for me personally there was just too much slowdown. Ok the Sonic model in Sonic R wasn’t great. But the overall visuals were fantasyic
@@thegamelounge659 Sonic Jam and the special stages of 3d blast used more imoressive lighting effects and look better, burning Ranger was practically an early sega dreamcast Game 😭
Ok i forgot you said "i think" at the start i'm sorry
Loved virtua fighter 1,hated vf2,looked alright,didnt like the music and the ai was a bit off making the game easier than it should have been and the extra options amounted to not much at all especially the learn mode,fighters megamix and vipers are better 3d fighters,vf2 has higher resolution and good framerate but the game is more hollow to me .. vf kids on the other hand is astounding looking on saturn,i think way better looking than vf2
Daytona 1 .. i agree,amazing game,draw distance didnt bother me or my mates at release and the framerate was fine .. game still great to play because it plays just like the arcade,doesnt look the best these days but its still a belter of a game,wayyy better than ridge racer 1 and 2,ridge racer had terrible hit detection,a poor out side car view,garbage on rails ai cars and a much more limited track to race .. i always thought that anyone that says ridge racer is better is bias or off their nut
Riven is another great game on saturn,i think it uses a higher resolution than the ps1 and is very close to the pc game,uses less discs than ps1 and loads faster too,audio less compressed
Bug one and bug too are great games,i adore the pastel colour backgrounds and clean texture work in bug,,bug too is also quite impressive and seems to be doing alot more on the screen and gameplay jas been sped up and tightened and clockwork knight 2 does some fancy graphical effects that emulators still dont reproduce properly,i think it might have layered transparency,there are mist/fog effects that i have never seen in any other saturn,ps1 game before,runs smooth and looks very sharp
I always forget about VF Kids, so many of my friends loved that game back in the day. They would all play VF Kids and Street Fighter Alpha 2!
Riven is another game that I have never played on Saturn. Is it worth playing now?
Bug and Clockwork Knight are superb games sadly stuck stranded on the Saturn and sadly I don’t see either ever making a return. Both of the games sequels were significantly better in my opinion. Better difficulty curves and significantly improved visuals.
I dont inderstand why saturn has.not more games the crock
MAIS PAS DU TOUT!
Wrong and you know it,its on my shelf,u aint a sega fan
after playing Sonic R just don't play it sucks so bad it's a shit game