The Bf109 had automatic slats before the Me262. Gabby wasn't shot down. He flew too low on a second pass over an airfield in an attempt to avoid AAA. He clipped his propellers, which forced him to make an emergency landing. He eluded capture for 5 days before being captured.
@@jarink1 basically Jim they create more lift at slower speeds enabling higher AoA...Eric Winkle Brown,,(legend, google him if you havent heard of him) said he nearly shit himself the first time he flew a 109,,said they sometimes came out with a thud
The Americans claim a 10:1 K/D ratio, the Russians also claim a 10:1 K/D for the Mig-15... I think both sides were shooting down paper airplanes and counting as kills :P
@Teddles Peddles You say that but the Russians used fighter aces from the second world war, the same as the USA so their skill was basically comparable. Also the armament of the mig 15 was ill suited to the to fighter engagements as it was designed to nuke bombers with its massive burst mass
@@noname-wo9yy Oh horse shit the canon that was in place on the MIG was good at taking anything out in the sky. Yes designed to eliminate American bomber , But work lovely at shredding any fighter it gets behind, as well. Make no mistake about that.
@@harv5425 Russians can make no legal claims why the fucking cunts were not there legally they were just committing an act of war why due to the fact it was a UN police action, not a US war
Really nice report. My dad was an AF pilot. His first aircraft was F-86. I was active AF, computers. and my 4 years were spent in Germany, Spangdahlem AB. Home of the 52TFW! Before you said it, I recognized the Wing patch on the tail! Later I became a pilot and flew for US Airways. Now I teach pilots to fly biz jets. Again, great report....just found your channel, new subscriber!
Hi Michael, by "Active AF", do you mean you worked in the digital Computer field? Was that the on board computer system, or the mini/mainframe field? Personally, my own role is as a Computer technician, but love reading about the old PDP-8, 6800, 6502, 68000 and Z80 based systems from the 1960s/1970s/1980s.
my dad was a mechanic for the army air-core during ww2 . after the war he continued as a civilian for the Air force. in the Tacoma area. retiring in 1980. i wish we could talk. but he has passed away .
Actually F-86 Sabre design based on Messerschmit P-1101 Jet and Mig-15 Based on Ta-183.Its ironic but in Skies of Korea there was an air battle between two major German Designers
none aircraft was "based" on Me P-1101 or Ta 183,both was recognized extremly unstable (and the me 262 had some aerodynamic problems (loss of controll over 900km/h), so he's design was NEVER use on another aircraft), this is the cause why swept wing cames only slowly in service, first US jets had conventioonal wings (ex: T33), and the conventional wing was long time use on jets like on the well known Fouga magister
The F-86 was developed from the FJ-1, which was a new design for the Navy. The MiG 15 was developed from the MiG 9. The only aircraft I can think of that was based on either the P.1101 or Ta 183 was the X-5, which pretty clearly has the roots of it's design in the P.1101. The F-86 and MiG 15 have sort of similar layouts to the Germans, but they're certainly not based on them.
You forgot to mention that the F 86 was designed by the German whose name was Lippisch. He designed the Messeschmitt ME 163, a rocket propelled fighter having a speed of 700 miles, for the Luftwaffe. That is just a shade short of supersonic. Apart from designing the F 86, Lippisch was also involved in the American development of rocket planes, the X series.
Actually sir, if you might remember, or not, was one of the most bitter complaints about the Messerschmidt Bf 109 was that in some of the hard maneuvering in the battle of Britain when trying to shoot down Spitfires and Hurricanes was that the leading edge slate would occasionally pop out when they were just about to.fire screwing up their aim and costing them the kill. As the 109 was based on the earlier design by Messerschmidt that looked much like a 109 with two side by side seats in the cockpit. But it still sported that distinctive wing and some other similarities so that it's easy to tell the two planes are closely related even though one was a cutting edge fighter where the other was a civilian plane with nowhere near the gobs of power the 109 had. Although I usually can recall the planes number for some reason my mind is not cooperating right this moment but I'm sure most know the aircraft I'm referring to. In fact it looks so similar to the 109 that I've spotted it in several movies being passed off as the actual fighter, which works fairly well if far away from many angeles. I do not know if the slats were a feature of that design though or new when the 109 was built. As most smaller slower civilian aircraft don't really need slats and if I were to.bet I would think Messerschmidt came up with Slats thinking slower landings might help overcome the high fatal accident rates on landings due to the very narrow undercarriage so I.kind of doubt it but then again the wing was the same on both so maybe it did at that. The point though is that leading edge slate of the type that were gravity and/or airflow operated on both the 262 and F86 did not first appear with the 262. They first appeared with the pre war design of the 109 at least if not the civilian messerschmidt. Now if anything before that introduced them I don't know but highly doubt it as it was cutting edge stuff at the time.I Not trying to.be argumentative but I thought you are the kind of person who strives to be as accurate and mistake free as you can...
For starters, the auto slat wasn't invented by Messerschmitt. And they used it on the Bf-108 long before the Me-262. The air brakes are mostly not just for landing, but for speed control in other flight regimes, like ground attack and on approach.
My dad was a machinist at NAA in Inglewood, CA. When I was a kid I would go to the open houses with my dad and see all the planes there. The F86 was in production and there were lots of them outside ready to go. Years later I was i the Air force and stationed at Dover Air Force base in the 98th FIS (see decal on side of F86 in video) where we had F101B voodoos then. 1961-1963)
52TFW! I know that well enough. Spangdahlem Air Base, Germany. I was an air traffic controller working at Eifel Approach Control, assigned to the 2137th Comm Squadron, Major Dean C. Alexander commanding. Fun times! this was 1982-1985 and we flew the F4 Wild Weasel. Many times I was woken up by that sound of freedom...
Nicely done. I want to note that no aircraft (that I know of) travels down the runway at 400mph+ (348knots+). I believe the F-86H had a landing speed of around 126 knots. With that in mind, it would not be going more than that to take off.
The "Captured German Technology" is so overstated, NACA was experimenting with Airfoils too. Controllable Leading Edge Slots @1:18 was being used by Handley Page (HP20) in 1921
The Aussie Sabres had an Avon engine from the Canberra bomber for higher thrust which necessitated a wider and longer rear fuselage and wider jet air intake compared to its US built cousins, it was also equipped with only 2 30mm Aden cannon, one on each side, usually they were equipped with AIM-9B Sidewinders under each wing on patrol missions.
@@anand34s And then an another Pakistani guy would show up, claiming he has a piece of a MiG used by Indian. What kind of childish dick-measuring contest is this? This is not a place for political BS, bugger off if you are not aviation enthusiastic.
Some F-86 Sabre were shot down over Korea. The USSR capture them and found that the F-86 gun radar is very advance. MIG15 don't have gun radar. USSR reverse engineer the F-86 gun radar and put the gun radar in the improved version MIG15 => MIG17. The MIG17 also have after burner to increase the speed. After Korea war, US found that the MIG15 have bigger guns - 23mm and 30mm. That is why later version of F-86 have 20mm cannons.
If you're "screaming down the runway at 400 mph" in anything you've long since left your landing gear behind... the dialogue in this series of videos is embarrassing... aimed at kids I guess.
I play a lot of War Thunder and I couldn't find any evidence of any Sabres with 20 millimeter cannons on them thanks for putting this video up it's just like boom right there there it is
I learned something new. I thought I knew just about everything about the Saber but I wasn't aware that later models had 4 cannons instead of machine guns.
I see the F-86 has a 98th FIS decal on the side. I was in the 98th FIS in the early 60s and we had F-101Bs. Also my dad worked at N.A.A. in Inglewood, CA and when I was a kid I got to go to their open houses.
You forgot to mentioned that F-86 front radar is synchronized with these guns. When enemy is in the radar range . These guns adjust themselves and pilot have push the button only . Not correct the direction of plane.
For many times Americans tried to use radar guided nose turrets on their aircrafts as prototypes but sabre was never one of them. Sabres had normal gyro gunsights or on some models the radar assisted gun sight. With the use of the radar assisted gunsight the pilot had to achieve a valid painting on the enemy plane and then place the gun cross on the enemy aircraft then pull the trigger. There were never self adjusting guns.
Great plane, great video. My dad flew the Hog with the 386 FBS at Clovis (Cannon) AFB in the 1950's. FYI, the F-86H initially also came with the six fifty cals, and then switched over to the 20mm cannons. I have photos of the squadron taken prior to the switch. I'm gonna' have to get out there and see that one. It's a shame there are not airworthy H-models.
My favourite story from a boeing engineer to his team was to instruct them to stop what ever they were doing as the captured german research was so incredible. the 10-1 kill ratio depends on who was at the controls. US vs minimally trained north korean pilots? for sure. against trained & combat veteran russian pilots in the korean war? not so much.
Several years ago, I was at the Rocky Mountain Airport in Broomfield, co. I walked out on the tamarac to get a closer look at the air brakes on an F-86. I knew that the ME 262 pilots wished they had air brakes on their aircraft. The very next day, this Saber jet did a low altitude loop and did not make it through and this Saber pilot crashed his jet all over the end of the runway. I never saw the crash.
The F86 was a good fighter jet... Though it took us Australians to make it a great fighter jet. The CA-26 Sabre with it's Rolls Royce engine instead of a piddly General Electric one, it had a faster speed (102%) and rate of climb (133%) as well as a higher service ceiling (106%) than the Yank version. The CA-26 was much more deadly with two 30mm Aden cannon and two Aim-9 Sidewinders as well as bombs. While the CA-26 Sabre never saw air-to-air combat it flew on active service patrolling Thai airspace during the Vietnam conflict and served far longer with the RAAF (until 1971) than the F86 served with the USAF.
GhostOfRhurValley america experimented quite a bit with them, even before the H model. The F86F-2 was made in small quantities, it even made it into the Korean War. While the F86F-2... was not the greatest aircraft, it was prone to falling out of the sky after firing its guns, improvements in the guns and aircraft led to the F86H and F100, both armed with further variants of the F86F-2’s 20mm.
The current history does not support the 10:1 ratio. The ratio was closer to 1.5:1 or 2:1 On a side note the Soviets claimed more F-86's than ever served in Korea.
The kill ratios during that time were flawed on both sides. You are flying super fast jets and shooting at your enemy with machineguns, while your window of opportunity is often times just a split second. Read "The Hunters" to understand how kill ratios worked in the Korean Air War. The pilots were under pressure to report "kills" and often times even disputed kill claims were simply accepted as kills to make your squadron look good.
The F-86H was developed as a fighter-bomber version of the air-superiority F-86. Both development and production were rushed to get this into the Korean War, but too late.
TBH, the Bf-109 first introduced the self-deploying slat, which gave the pilots some trouble trying to line up on targets, as the slats often deployed independently, inducing yaw and throwing off the pilot's aim.........................
The USAF initially claimed an incredulous 16 to 1 kill ratio over the MiG-15 jet fighter interceptor during the Korean War. Over the following decades, the USAF quietly reduced this official kill ratio to 7 to 1 against the MiG-15. Military aviation historians were still not satisfied. American military historians have since then argued in favor of 5 to 1, even as low as 3 to 1. Yet far from denigrating either side, the more realistic kill ratio proposals give far more credit to the skilled Russian fighter pilots that are due them. The Russians in turn claimed a favorable 7 to 1 kill ratio over the Americans. Somewhere among this unresolved dispute is the probability the true kill ratio might be as good as 3 to 1 in favor of the Americans or as low as 1.5 to 1 in favor of the Americans. Bear in mind that the Soviets later turned over the MiG-15 flying to Red Chinese and North Korean pilots who were inexperienced and their level of training expertise is not accurately known. These Chinese and Korean jet pilots probably incurred more losses than their far more experienced Russian counterparts. Also the Soviet MiG-15 pilots had the opportunity to go up against other jet fighters such as the P-80 Shooting Star, the F-84 Thunderjet, the US Navy F9F Panther jet, the British Gloster Meteor, all of which were very good jet fighters but still inferior in jet performance to the faster MiG-15. Those fighters did incur losses in combat against the fast, fast-climbing, nimble MiG-15. Taken together as a whole group of enemy jets, the Soviets might indeed have achieved a higher gross total kill ratio over all enemy jets.
The F-86 began life on the drawing board as a straight wing fighter, initially designated as the P-86, the Air Force version of the Navy's FJ-1 Fury. It never had any form of resemblence to the Focke Wulf TA-183, at sll.
So what came first, the mig 15 or f86? Very similar in design. We have a f86 in need of restoration in front of our vfw. I'm 42 and still enjoy seeing it.
Dunno why this video comes off with so much missed or inaccurate information, considering this is from a Museum. The F-86 had an estimated 2:1 kill ratio in Korea, 10:1 is literally insane. Even the PAF got lucky with a best of 3:1 in the 1971 war with help from Chuck Yeager. Missed radar gun sight, engine, the actual data NA used which was wind tunnel data, what the slats actually do, sidewinders in Korea, LABS being retrofitted onto the F models, the canadair sabres, breaking the sound barrier in a sabre.
It's too bad the F-86H did not see combat over Korea. In fact though, the F-86H was an interim model, as the F-100 Super Sabre was about to begin mass production and its speed was higher than the F-86H. Still the USAF saw the need for the F-86H as insurance, should war break out before the F-100 could reach widespread deployment, which would take much time. Existing USAF jet fighter pilots were already trained on the F-86A, E, and F models so transitioning to the H model would be near seamless. The F-86H was the penultimate F-86 Sabre since the F-100 Super Sabre was a completely different jet fighter. North American aerospace designers intended the F-86H to be the optimal, perfected Sabre jet, gaining the final ascendancy over the MiG-15bis. The F-86H was slightly faster than the F-86F, but not much. It's chief virtues were that the H model could reach the same maximum altitude as the MiG-15bis. The original MiG-15 possessed a max altitude of 50,000 ft against the F-86A max altitude of only 45,000 ft. MiG-15 pilots used the 5,000 feet advantage to climb to safety away from the F-86A. The later improved F-86F could attain just over 48,000 ft, mostly canceling out the altitude advantage of the MiG-15. The H model possessed the far more effective, short-barreled Hispano 20mm cannon. Early Sabre jet fighter pilots discovered their sextet of M2 .50 caliber heavy machine guns were less effective in jet-to-jet combat. Distances between jet fighters during combat were wider, straining the maximum range effectiveness of the .50 caliber heavy projectiles. Sabre jet pilots claimed they could see their .50 caliber bullets glancing off the MiG-15's fuselage. Jet fighters needed thicker metal surfaces but that in itself did not make it impervious to .50 caliber bullets. The Germans of WW2 learned that a minimum of 1/2 inch, or, rather, 12.7mm of plate steel was required to stop a .50 caliber bullet. Rather the thicker metal skin of the MiG-15 helped it to deflect off .50 caliber projectiles striking it at very shallow angles as one would expect from a Sabre jet firing from astern. Sabre pilots often had to expend almost their entire ammunition load shooting down one MiG. Gun camera film appears to show damage to to MiGs by .50 caliber bullets traveling up the tail pipe to destroy the engine. Otherwise the Sabre pilot had to shoot from a much closer range and hope his .50 caliber bullets would penetrate instead of deflecting off the MiG. It did work nonetheless on occasion. While the F-86H might overtake the MiG-15bis, a nasty surprise awaited the USAF had war broken out between the US and the USSR. In 1951 the Soviet Air Force introduced the MiG-17, essentially a perfected and much improved version of the MiG-15bis. The MiG-17, NATO codename, Fresco, was about thirty miles per hour faster than the F-86H and its maximum altitude was just over 51,000 feet. The easy-to-manufacture, straightforward-to-fly, and easy-to-maintain MiG-17 proved so dependable that it remained in service long after successor Soviet fighter jets, the MiG-19 and the MiG-21 superseded the 17 in frontline service. During the Vietnam War, the MiG-17 gave the USAF and US Navy aviators a lot of problems because the MiG-17 could climb fast and maneuver better than the more advanced American jet fighters and fighter bombers. The MiG-17's armament of two, 23mm cannon and 37mm cannon were devastating against American jet fighters. Any strike on the fuselage and the American jet fighter was going down and its pilot a high risk of becoming an unwanted guest in the Hanoi Hilton prison.
Good video, however a little bit more technical data would be desirable, such as the flying tail v the first tail, engine upgrades from previous models and performance differces, gunsiting improvements, the Hard-fence wing v the krueger slats, etc, etc
great video...but the intel on Gabreski is often contested and debated, both ways, even by men like Yeager....for many years...Francis S. Gabreski held 1st place in the E.T.O. with a recorded 34 air-to-air kills, Robert S. Johnson in 2nd with 28....both were in the legendary 56th fighter group....Bong and McGuire in the P.T.O. with 40 and 38 respectively....Yeager has even stated that many of "Gabbys" kills were on the ground....but good video...kutgw!!!
The Bf109 had automatic slats before the Me262. Gabby wasn't shot down. He flew too low on a second pass over an airfield in an attempt to avoid AAA. He clipped his propellers, which forced him to make an emergency landing. He eluded capture for 5 days before being captured.
That's right👍
While they explained how slats were deployed, they made no mention of what they do. These videos need to be a bit longer and have better writing.
@@jarink1 I aggree!
Jim Rinkenberger they are made for younger people unfortunately
@@jarink1 basically Jim they create more lift at slower speeds enabling higher AoA...Eric Winkle Brown,,(legend, google him if you havent heard of him) said he nearly shit himself the first time he flew a 109,,said they sometimes came out with a thud
The most gorgeous looking jet ever designed.
The Americans claim a 10:1 K/D ratio, the Russians also claim a 10:1 K/D for the Mig-15... I think both sides were shooting down paper airplanes and counting as kills :P
@Teddles Peddles You say that but the Russians used fighter aces from the second world war, the same as the USA so their skill was basically comparable. Also the armament of the mig 15 was ill suited to the to fighter engagements as it was designed to nuke bombers with its massive burst mass
@@noname-wo9yy Oh horse shit the canon that was in place on the MIG was good at taking anything out in the sky. Yes designed to eliminate American bomber , But work lovely at shredding any fighter it gets behind, as well. Make no mistake about that.
@@harv5425 Russians can make no legal claims why the fucking cunts were not there legally they were just committing an act of war why due to the fact it was a UN police action, not a US war
Damn looks like the Cold War is heating up in this comment thread
@@doch.8039 nice
The H model had the J73 engine nearly doubling the thrust as compared to previous models. Little fun fact to add.
only 2 of them were fitted with the J73 as it was a small production batch test engine.
@Paul Beduhn The Navy FJ which was a derivation of the F86 also had 4 20mm guns.
What about the F86F
@Paul Beduhn thats mentioned in the video ....
@@dade356 all F-86Hs had the J73 engine, that's the whole reason why the fuselage is bigger
Everyone skims over the radar guided lead indicator on the f86 which is awesome
Albino Earwig that’s the rare F86 D :p
Gave it a huge advantage over the MiG 15.
Polaska Tyu No, all the F86s had it
Not radar. But based simply on ballistics. The p-51 actually had a lead gauging piper too
Sir Illuminar The Valient it did have a radar. thats why its called a radar gunsight.
Really nice report. My dad was an AF pilot. His first aircraft was F-86. I was active AF, computers. and my 4 years were spent in Germany, Spangdahlem AB. Home of the 52TFW! Before you said it, I recognized the Wing patch on the tail! Later I became a pilot and flew for US Airways. Now I teach pilots to fly biz jets.
Again, great report....just found your channel, new subscriber!
Hi Michael, by "Active AF", do you mean you worked in the digital Computer field? Was that the on board computer system, or the mini/mainframe field?
Personally, my own role is as a Computer technician, but love reading about the old PDP-8, 6800, 6502, 68000 and Z80 based systems from the 1960s/1970s/1980s.
my dad was a mechanic for the army air-core during ww2 . after the war he continued as a civilian for the Air force. in the Tacoma area. retiring in 1980. i wish we could talk. but he has passed away .
Doug, I think I know exactly how you feel. He can't answer you directly, but you can still talk to him...
Thanks for the memories. Worked on these for almost four years
4:01 warthunder f86-f2 sparking flashbacks
Bill Boomer I HIT THE FUCKER’S WING LIKE SIX TIMES, BUT NOOOO
You got a hole in your right wing
Not since the "cannon buff" right guys?
@@josebravo1826 HEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY "buff"
*laughs in CL-13A Sabre Mk 5 .50 cals*
Do you have to be an Uber Nerd to know about the Me262? Who is your target audience?
Über Nerds, duh
The audience who watch these videos and who know about the Me 262 are just normal people
I think to be a nerd now days you have to be super smart, not just smart
people who play war thunder lmfaoo
Yep, or a Blue Oyster Cult fan. 🤔
Actually F-86 Sabre design based on Messerschmit P-1101 Jet and Mig-15 Based on Ta-183.Its ironic but in Skies of Korea there was an air battle between two major German Designers
With british rolls-royce derived engines !
@@jase6370 RR Nene model
none aircraft was "based" on Me P-1101 or Ta 183,both was recognized extremly unstable (and the me 262 had some aerodynamic problems (loss of controll over 900km/h), so he's design was NEVER use on another aircraft), this is the cause why swept wing cames only slowly in service, first US jets had conventioonal wings (ex: T33), and the conventional wing was long time use on jets like on the well known Fouga magister
The F-86 was developed from the FJ-1, which was a new design for the Navy. The MiG 15 was developed from the MiG 9. The only aircraft I can think of that was based on either the P.1101 or Ta 183 was the X-5, which pretty clearly has the roots of it's design in the P.1101. The F-86 and MiG 15 have sort of similar layouts to the Germans, but they're certainly not based on them.
@@leneanderthalien Good excuse. Reminds me of how the Allies tried to convince people that the M1 Garand was a better design than the StG44.
You forgot to mention that the F 86 was designed by the German whose name was Lippisch. He designed the Messeschmitt ME 163, a rocket propelled fighter having a speed of 700 miles, for the Luftwaffe. That is just a shade short of supersonic. Apart from designing the F 86, Lippisch was also involved in the American development of rocket planes, the X series.
It seems to me that the Ta 183 looks a lot more like the MiG-15.
Micheal Dorn, the actor who played Worf in star trek: the next generation owned an F-86.
Actually sir, if you might remember, or not, was one of the most bitter complaints about the Messerschmidt Bf 109 was that in some of the hard maneuvering in the battle of Britain when trying to shoot down Spitfires and Hurricanes was that the leading edge slate would occasionally pop out when they were just about to.fire screwing up their aim and costing them the kill.
As the 109 was based on the earlier design by Messerschmidt that looked much like a 109 with two side by side seats in the cockpit. But it still sported that distinctive wing and some other similarities so that it's easy to tell the two planes are closely related even though one was a cutting edge fighter where the other was a civilian plane with nowhere near the gobs of power the 109 had. Although I usually can recall the planes number for some reason my mind is not cooperating right this moment but I'm sure most know the aircraft I'm referring to. In fact it looks so similar to the 109 that I've spotted it in several movies being passed off as the actual fighter, which works fairly well if far away from many angeles. I do not know if the slats were a feature of that design though or new when the 109 was built. As most smaller slower civilian aircraft don't really need slats and if I were to.bet I would think Messerschmidt came up with Slats thinking slower landings might help overcome the high fatal accident rates on landings due to the very narrow undercarriage so I.kind of doubt it but then again the wing was the same on both so maybe it did at that.
The point though is that leading edge slate of the type that were gravity and/or airflow operated on both the 262 and F86 did not first appear with the 262. They first appeared with the pre war design of the 109 at least if not the civilian messerschmidt. Now if anything before that introduced them I don't know but highly doubt it as it was cutting edge stuff at the time.I
Not trying to.be argumentative but I thought you are the kind of person who strives to be as accurate and mistake free as you can...
Both the F-86 and the MiG-15 took some cues from it, but the Sabre is even more heavily influenced by NAA's earlier P-51.
For starters, the auto slat wasn't invented by Messerschmitt. And they used it on the Bf-108 long before the Me-262.
The air brakes are mostly not just for landing, but for speed control in other flight regimes, like ground attack and on approach.
My dad was a machinist at NAA in Inglewood, CA. When I was a kid I would go to the open houses with my dad and see all the planes there. The F86 was in production and there were lots of them outside ready to go. Years later I was i the Air force and stationed at Dover Air Force base in the 98th FIS (see decal on side of F86 in video) where we had F101B voodoos then. 1961-1963)
52TFW! I know that well enough. Spangdahlem Air Base, Germany. I was an air traffic controller working at Eifel Approach Control, assigned to the 2137th Comm Squadron, Major Dean C. Alexander commanding. Fun times! this was 1982-1985 and we flew the F4 Wild Weasel. Many times I was woken up by that sound of freedom...
Best aircraft design ever, a humble view from a brit.
Fell in love with these jets as a kid in the '50s ...
Way back in the 70's I read Sabre Jet Ace about these in the Korean War. That books is now worth hundreds of dollars.
Nicely done. I want to note that no aircraft (that I know of) travels down the runway at 400mph+ (348knots+). I believe the F-86H had a landing speed of around 126 knots. With that in mind, it would not be going more than that to take off.
The "Captured German Technology" is so overstated, NACA was experimenting with Airfoils too. Controllable Leading Edge Slots @1:18 was being used by Handley Page (HP20) in 1921
The Last Air Superiority fighter that was designed to Dog Fight until the F-16 came out.
My father flew these in the ‘50s. He loved the plane.
The aussie Sabres carried an even more powerful cannon among other goodies!
Guillermo Hoffmann and engines....
Why are there always "ie"-sounds involved whenever Australia is the topic ?
The Aussie Sabres had an Avon engine from the Canberra bomber for higher thrust which necessitated a wider and longer rear fuselage and wider jet air intake compared to its US built cousins, it was also equipped with only 2 30mm Aden cannon, one on each side, usually they were equipped with AIM-9B Sidewinders under each wing on patrol missions.
If anyone copied the FW TA-183 I think it was more likely the Saab J29.
I never even noticed the fact that some F-86's had clamshell style hinged canopies.
GuitarsAre LikeStupid only the H model, it also had a wider nose
This is so good it's like fun and lots of information at the same time
f 86 sabre was used by PAF (Pakistan airforce) in 1965 indo pak war. f 86 sabre was one of the best aircraft at that time.
I have a piece of one of those planes. It's from one of those that had gotten shot down
@@anand34s And then an another Pakistani guy would show up, claiming he has a piece of a MiG used by Indian. What kind of childish dick-measuring contest is this? This is not a place for political BS, bugger off if you are not aviation enthusiastic.
Some F-86 Sabre were shot down over Korea. The USSR capture them and found that the F-86 gun radar is very advance. MIG15 don't have gun radar. USSR reverse engineer the F-86 gun radar and put the gun radar in the improved version MIG15 => MIG17. The MIG17 also have after burner to increase the speed. After Korea war, US found that the MIG15 have bigger guns - 23mm and 30mm. That is why later version of F-86 have 20mm cannons.
The saber was in service until 1994 which is an insane lifespan.
"If you're screaming down the runway at 400 MPH", what's he talking about!?!
Good catch. I believe the touchdown speed was around 110.
The speed brakes were used well before the runway, during approach.
If you're "screaming down the runway at 400 mph" in anything you've long since left your landing gear behind... the dialogue in this series of videos is embarrassing... aimed at kids I guess.
Such an underrated channel!
This ubernerd would like longer videos from this great channel.
The slats were on the BF-109 before the ME-262 😉
I love the Sabre Jet! A true gunfighter!
I play a lot of War Thunder and I couldn't find any evidence of any Sabres with 20 millimeter cannons on them thanks for putting this video up it's just like boom right there there it is
I learned something new. I thought I knew just about everything about the Saber but I wasn't aware that later models had 4 cannons instead of machine guns.
Try Avon SABRE and learn some more.
I see the F-86 has a 98th FIS decal on the side. I was in the 98th FIS in the early 60s and we had F-101Bs. Also my dad worked at N.A.A. in Inglewood, CA and when I was a kid I got to go to their open houses.
You forgot to mentioned that F-86 front radar is synchronized with these guns. When enemy is in the radar range . These guns adjust themselves and pilot have push the button only . Not correct the direction of plane.
For many times Americans tried to use radar guided nose turrets on their aircrafts as prototypes but sabre was never one of them. Sabres had normal gyro gunsights or on some models the radar assisted gun sight. With the use of the radar assisted gunsight the pilot had to achieve a valid painting on the enemy plane and then place the gun cross on the enemy aircraft then pull the trigger. There were never self adjusting guns.
Great plane, great video. My dad flew the Hog with the 386 FBS at Clovis (Cannon) AFB in the 1950's. FYI, the F-86H initially also came with the six fifty cals, and then switched over to the 20mm cannons. I have photos of the squadron taken prior to the switch. I'm gonna' have to get out there and see that one. It's a shame there are not airworthy H-models.
1:13 I’d love to be that janitor, he’s cleaning one of my favorite planes ever
My favourite story from a boeing engineer to his team was to instruct them to stop what ever they were doing as the captured german research was so incredible. the 10-1 kill ratio depends on who was at the controls. US vs minimally trained north korean pilots? for sure. against trained & combat veteran russian pilots in the korean war? not so much.
The f86 served as a frontline fighter for 45+ years it wasn't retired till 1996 in 🇧🇴
Back in the 1950's the Schenectady Air Guard base has a wing of F86's. Eventually they transfered to Syracuse. These were hard wing F86's W/O slats.
Allow me to add that Gabreski was a fighter ace both flying P-47s over Europe and F-86s over Korea.
My favorite fighter. Worked on NASA'S F-86 as it was passing through Little Rock.
Great channel and videos!
Gabreski also shot down six and a half MiGs in Korea flying the F-86. Of course not the H model. He was with the 51st FIG.
Several years ago, I was at the Rocky Mountain Airport in Broomfield, co. I walked out on the tamarac to get a closer look at the air brakes on an F-86. I knew that the ME 262 pilots wished they had air brakes on their aircraft. The very next day, this Saber jet did a low altitude loop and did not make it through and this Saber pilot crashed his jet all over the end of the runway. I never saw the crash.
Came here from warthunder amazing channel keep up the good vids.
Thanks, Clorox! ;) MB
A MiG and a Sabre flew over my house in formation once. About five years ago.
I love this channel!
The F86 was a good fighter jet... Though it took us Australians to make it a great fighter jet. The CA-26 Sabre with it's Rolls Royce engine instead of a piddly General Electric one, it had a faster speed (102%) and rate of climb (133%) as well as a higher service ceiling (106%) than the Yank version. The CA-26 was much more deadly with two 30mm Aden cannon and two Aim-9 Sidewinders as well as bombs. While the CA-26 Sabre never saw air-to-air combat it flew on active service patrolling Thai airspace during the Vietnam conflict and served far longer with the RAAF (until 1971) than the F86 served with the USAF.
You forgot the all moving tail plane
I didn't realize they actually made the 20mm sabre I thought it didn't make it off the blueprints .
GhostOfRhurValley america experimented quite a bit with them, even before the H model. The F86F-2 was made in small quantities, it even made it into the Korean War. While the F86F-2... was not the greatest aircraft, it was prone to falling out of the sky after firing its guns, improvements in the guns and aircraft led to the F86H and F100, both armed with further variants of the F86F-2’s 20mm.
The CA-27 sabre had twin 30mm cannons 150 rounds each. They mainly flew with the RAAF.
And other Sabre with 20mm is the F86H
Beautiful fighter jet 😎
And to think I got to see these, when they were still operational fighters for the USAF.
Excellent Guys.
The current history does not support the 10:1 ratio. The ratio was closer to 1.5:1 or 2:1
On a side note the Soviets claimed more F-86's than ever served in Korea.
The kill ratios during that time were flawed on both sides. You are flying super fast jets and shooting at your enemy with machineguns, while your window of opportunity is often times just a split second. Read "The Hunters" to understand how kill ratios worked in the Korean Air War. The pilots were under pressure to report "kills" and often times even disputed kill claims were simply accepted as kills to make your squadron look good.
Great video and the F86s with the Taiwan air force were fitted with sidewinder missiles .
My favourites jet fighters ever theF 86 and the T-39 , sweet!
The F-86H was developed as a fighter-bomber version of the air-superiority F-86. Both development and production were rushed to get this into the Korean War, but too late.
Me 108 and 109 had leading edge automatic slats in the 1930’s
My pop was engine mech on these tiny early daze...sigh
The F- 86 was a work of art, besides being a fighter jet...
You forgot about the radar adjusted gun sights
TBH, the Bf-109 first introduced the self-deploying slat, which gave the pilots some trouble trying to line up on targets, as the slats often deployed independently, inducing yaw and throwing off the pilot's aim.........................
The F86 was not based on the Ta-183, rather it was based on the Messerscmitt P.1011
The TA-183 to me more resembles the MiG-15 than the F-86
Love ur videos. I sure like to visit your Aircraft Museum
Ya the Ta 183 is so cool
Interesting and informative
I LOVE SABREJET.
Had a patient who was a test pilot in the 40-50 tell me this was the best plane he had ever flown
My favorite jet period.. 😁
The USAF initially claimed an incredulous 16 to 1 kill ratio over the MiG-15 jet fighter interceptor during the Korean War. Over the following decades, the USAF quietly reduced this official kill ratio to 7 to 1 against the MiG-15. Military aviation historians were still not satisfied. American military historians have since then argued in favor of 5 to 1, even as low as 3 to 1. Yet far from denigrating either side, the more realistic kill ratio proposals give far more credit to the skilled Russian fighter pilots that are due them. The Russians in turn claimed a favorable 7 to 1 kill ratio over the Americans. Somewhere among this unresolved dispute is the probability the true kill ratio might be as good as 3 to 1 in favor of the Americans or as low as 1.5 to 1 in favor of the Americans. Bear in mind that the Soviets later turned over the MiG-15 flying to Red Chinese and North Korean pilots who were inexperienced and their level of training expertise is not accurately known. These Chinese and Korean jet pilots probably incurred more losses than their far more experienced Russian counterparts. Also the Soviet MiG-15 pilots had the opportunity to go up against other jet fighters such as the P-80 Shooting Star, the F-84 Thunderjet, the US Navy F9F Panther jet, the British Gloster Meteor, all of which were very good jet fighters but still inferior in jet performance to the faster MiG-15. Those fighters did incur losses in combat against the fast, fast-climbing, nimble MiG-15. Taken together as a whole group of enemy jets, the Soviets might indeed have achieved a higher gross total kill ratio over all enemy jets.
Pakistan Air Force armed their F-86 Sabres with AIM-9 Side winders and used them in 1965 War against India with excellent results.
The F-86 began life on the drawing board as a straight wing fighter, initially designated as the P-86, the Air Force version of the Navy's FJ-1 Fury. It never had any form of resemblence to the Focke Wulf TA-183, at sll.
Me -262:,the famed ,6-3 wing . Welcome to the F-86; Sabre jet .
Looking forwards to see the Northrop F - 5.
first bent wing US
and best looking imo
Did you not talk about the later additions of an all moving tail to the f-86?
And we have an airbase named after him on Long Island!
The BF 109 had those leading edge wing slats too.
Actually the Wing slat came from a variant of the BF-109
Terbaik la bro
So what came first, the mig 15 or f86? Very similar in design. We have a f86 in need of restoration in front of our vfw. I'm 42 and still enjoy seeing it.
The Sabre is cool looking jet 👍🏼
Wow i never thought that there is a four 20mm cannon armed, F-86 Sabre combat aircraft i never have an idea not until now.
Thanks for the entertaining video about a breathtaking beauty of the sky ... my abo you have and keep it up ... have a good time
Dunno why this video comes off with so much missed or inaccurate information, considering this is from a Museum.
The F-86 had an estimated 2:1 kill ratio in Korea, 10:1 is literally insane. Even the PAF got lucky with a best of 3:1 in the 1971 war with help from Chuck Yeager.
Missed radar gun sight, engine, the actual data NA used which was wind tunnel data, what the slats actually do, sidewinders in Korea, LABS being retrofitted onto the F models, the canadair sabres, breaking the sound barrier in a sabre.
It's too bad the F-86H did not see combat over Korea. In fact though, the F-86H was an interim model, as the F-100 Super Sabre was about to begin mass production and its speed was higher than the F-86H. Still the USAF saw the need for the F-86H as insurance, should war break out before the F-100 could reach widespread deployment, which would take much time. Existing USAF jet fighter pilots were already trained on the F-86A, E, and F models so transitioning to the H model would be near seamless. The F-86H was the penultimate F-86 Sabre since the F-100 Super Sabre was a completely different jet fighter. North American aerospace designers intended the F-86H to be the optimal, perfected Sabre jet, gaining the final ascendancy over the MiG-15bis. The F-86H was slightly faster than the F-86F, but not much. It's chief virtues were that the H model could reach the same maximum altitude as the MiG-15bis. The original MiG-15 possessed a max altitude of 50,000 ft against the F-86A max altitude of only 45,000 ft. MiG-15 pilots used the 5,000 feet advantage to climb to safety away from the F-86A. The later improved F-86F could attain just over 48,000 ft, mostly canceling out the altitude advantage of the MiG-15. The H model possessed the far more effective, short-barreled Hispano 20mm cannon. Early Sabre jet fighter pilots discovered their sextet of M2 .50 caliber heavy machine guns were less effective in jet-to-jet combat. Distances between jet fighters during combat were wider, straining the maximum range effectiveness of the .50 caliber heavy projectiles. Sabre jet pilots claimed they could see their .50 caliber bullets glancing off the MiG-15's fuselage. Jet fighters needed thicker metal surfaces but that in itself did not make it impervious to .50 caliber bullets. The Germans of WW2 learned that a minimum of 1/2 inch, or, rather, 12.7mm of plate steel was required to stop a .50 caliber bullet. Rather the thicker metal skin of the MiG-15 helped it to deflect off .50 caliber projectiles striking it at very shallow angles as one would expect from a Sabre jet firing from astern. Sabre pilots often had to expend almost their entire ammunition load shooting down one MiG. Gun camera film appears to show damage to to MiGs by .50 caliber bullets traveling up the tail pipe to destroy the engine. Otherwise the Sabre pilot had to shoot from a much closer range and hope his .50 caliber bullets would penetrate instead of deflecting off the MiG. It did work nonetheless on occasion. While the F-86H might overtake the MiG-15bis, a nasty surprise awaited the USAF had war broken out between the US and the USSR. In 1951 the Soviet Air Force introduced the MiG-17, essentially a perfected and much improved version of the MiG-15bis. The MiG-17, NATO codename, Fresco, was about thirty miles per hour faster than the F-86H and its maximum altitude was just over 51,000 feet. The easy-to-manufacture, straightforward-to-fly, and easy-to-maintain MiG-17 proved so dependable that it remained in service long after successor Soviet fighter jets, the MiG-19 and the MiG-21 superseded the 17 in frontline service. During the Vietnam War, the MiG-17 gave the USAF and US Navy aviators a lot of problems because the MiG-17 could climb fast and maneuver better than the more advanced American jet fighters and fighter bombers. The MiG-17's armament of two, 23mm cannon and 37mm cannon were devastating against American jet fighters. Any strike on the fuselage and the American jet fighter was going down and its pilot a high risk of becoming an unwanted guest in the Hanoi Hilton prison.
Good video, however a little bit more technical data would be desirable, such as the flying tail v the first tail, engine upgrades from previous models and performance differces, gunsiting improvements, the Hard-fence wing v the krueger slats, etc, etc
I was wondering how many F-86 Sabres are flying.
Time for a Sabre III fighter.
1:16 nice shoes!
great video...but the intel on Gabreski is often contested and debated, both ways, even by men like Yeager....for many years...Francis S. Gabreski held 1st place in the E.T.O. with a recorded 34 air-to-air kills, Robert S. Johnson in 2nd with 28....both were in the legendary 56th fighter group....Bong and McGuire in the P.T.O. with 40 and 38 respectively....Yeager has even stated that many of "Gabbys" kills were on the ground....but good video...kutgw!!!
When you watch this before the F-100 Super Sabre to be chronologically correct but it turns out that episode was chronologically before this one