Ashford is one of my favorite characters in fiction. Complex, intelligent, an actually good person who fights a potentially wrong battle, just a very complicated person that you can never put into a single box. The most amazing thing about him is that the character in the book is *terrible*. A one note nobody cowardly villain. Just a nothing of a character. But the show does that a lot: takes small characters and makes them into so much more.
I agree completely, I love what they did with Ashford in this season. But I guess since they left out Bull from this season, show Ashford is kind of an amalgamation of book Ashford and book Bull-like show Ashford has the basic storyline of book Ashford but with the complicated moral qualms of book Bull. Just a great choice honestly.
Drummer having feelings for Naomi was Cara Gee's (and Dominique Tipper's) idea, and the writing team went along with it. I must say, giving Cara Gee more to do in general compared to her original book counterpart is one of the best decisions the show made.
I'm not going to say the show got lucky, because they spend a lot of time looking for the right actors, but they really struck gold with Cara Gee. And it's funny to see interviews with Cara Gee and discover that's she very different from Camina Drummer.
Yes, Drummer is in love with Naomi. That became clear to me by what Drummer said when she let Naomi go. The next episode was written to serve as the series finale. These writers know how to write a great finale. This finale will make you cry, laugh, sweat, and cheer.
@@hazri8758 I thought she might not as I first watched this. But now I believe she did know pretty early on, at least from the point that Drummer allowed her to go back to the Roci. I think now that Naomi abuses Drummer's emotions, knowing that Drummer cannot say "no" to her.
At the beginning, you got it backwards. *Every* ship got slowed down by the new speed limit. If you go over, the station captures the ship and drags it to the center. However the small ships ("skiffs") that were docked to the big ships, or weren't exceeding the new limit (Bobbie's ship), did not get captured, so they can still move around freely. So basically the big ships can't leave, only some of the small ones can -- and they can't provision those anyway for so many months.
If there are other UN & MCRN ships hanging about outside the Ring, eventually one will stick their nose in to see what's going on. All it will take is a radio message to hold still, go back out, then send in an unmanned freighter loaded with food & med supplies going more than the new speed limit. The station will bring the supplies to the flotilla. At least that would have been the strategy before Ol' Doc Coolvord's brilliant little experiment. Now time is somewhat more scarce than that.
Ah the advantage or disadvantage of knowing there are more seasons to come. When this aired it had already been announced that the show had been cancelled. So as far was we knew this was going to be the last 2 episodes. So Ashford's plan was a real possibility.
Clarissa's self reexamination started with the brain tumor question. Any number of ways she could have replied flippantly or defiantly, but she simply said "No" in a voice so hollow you could hear the ghosts haunting her already. She'd have gladly accepted brain cancer at that moment.
Hey guys, Clarissa view of James Holden. 1. Queen froze all their assets. She lost everything, had to get a job. 2. Holden responsible for capturing her father. 3. A few episodes back, i think 9 or 10 just b4 Clarissa blew up the Sung Yu & implicated Rosinante, she watched an exageratedly edited documentary about Rosinante crew by the reporter Monica Scott. The part where she talks about crew being special? Edited version makes Holden look like a cocky bastard. That added fuel to Clarissa's hatred of Holden.
I just realised this, The guy Melba kills in the other ship is the guy who is willing to give her a chance like a good father. But she is still trying to get revenge for her not so deserving father
When they squeezed book 3 down to make it fit into the last half of season 3, because they thought the show was ending, some things got left out. Clarissa, for example, was a _much_ more complex and interesting character in the book. (Anna suffered a bit too.) It's one of my few complaints about the season: they kept all the excitement, but not all the depth! The result was still excellent, but I wish they'd had the time and money to do it right!
@@martinacosta3821 If you do a little digging in the YT videos, there are some people that make B v S comparisons. I'm holding off so I can just read them at some point.
@@martinacosta3821 In the books each chapter focuses on a character's POV and usually there are just a couple you follow through the whole book - like in the first book where we basically only follow Holden and Miller. In the third book Melba/Clarissa was one of those POVs and there was a lot more about her thoughts and struggles with going through with her mission, especially regarding her killing the mentor mechanic - it really affected her a lot, which we kind of see in the show, but not to the same extent as in the books. I totally understand that they had to cut so much and they did great at that.
Like you said, I love that at this point, only Holden understand how out of its dephts the humankind is. Like... They are worrying about their own tensions, about the station, or the ring... While he witnessed a very, VERY advanced civilisation, wiped out. ( Not that they shouldn't be worrying about the ring, tho' ! ) It must be terryfying to understand that. And not be able to convey it properly to anyone.
I love the acting by Strait in this epidode, I think he beautifully projects that his brain remain a bit scrambled by its interface with The Station's database, one which caused his heart to stop beating once he was back onboard a ship. He's not in his right mind, giving credence to some degree to Ashford's observation that he's a bit of a lunatic talking to a dead man for his information.
Great reaction and analysis ladies as always! The interaction between Amos and Anna is soooo good! I look forward to the next episode and your reaction to this dynamic. This season finale is one of the best I've ever seen! Can't wait!
I'm actually flabbergasted the doc didn't put her in a medical coma after the initial trauma surgery was done. She had to know Drummer would refuse if offered a choice. As the CMO on the behemoth she has the authority to make that decision for Drummer.
I know this was two years ago, but I had to comment on the actor who played Ashford. David Strathairn has one of those names that is hard to remember. He is brilliant as Ashford. I remember him from Alphas where he played the head of a team that would track down people with supernatural abilities. another show I liked but it got cancelled.
This season always makes me think back to early interactions with the protomolecule. In the human hosts it didn't say much that made sense at the time, but it talked about studying, disassembling and using anything it could to complete "the work". It definitely wasn't interested in communicating with the ants at this anthill while paving the road.
It's so interesting to me that you see Drummer being in love with Naomi. From the books, it's very clear that there's nothing going on between Naomi and Drummer (or Naomi and Michio Pa whose part Drummer took in this season) so I guess I never thought about it in the show. But since you've said it, I can definitely see it, I don't know if it was intentional by the showrunners (who are the authors of the books after all) but yeah, it's an interesting angle.
Missed it my first time through too. Turns out, the actors had the idea & the writers loved it so worked it in. So subtle at first but so glaringly obvious on 2nd watch (for me at least) that it's a stroke of brilliance :D
problem with Ashford solution is that even if laser did cut through the ring to our solar system, the protomolecular can repair it just as quick with all the "materials" in the hub space. The materials here would be our ships and people stuck in the hub space.
I like your guesses, this episode. Again, they're all over the place, but *some* of them will turn out quite accurate. That makes you two fun to watch. 😎
Those lines, right up there with “Thank you” “No seriously, shut up” “Float to the top, or sink to the bottom…” And the greatest of them all. I won’t quote it- we all know it
Great timing! 👌😊 Clarissa lost all her wealth, power and influence, so she decides to kill the one who is responsible or let's say the one who she thinks is responsible. (Her dad did the bad things but Holden was the one that brought those to the surface and is the cause their "empire / company" got destroyed. Similar things happen in our world. 🤔 One could argue that Ashford did all this things because he is injured and will die if nothing happens, so he did spin the drum to get gravity so his internal bleeding won't kill him and he ordered blood donations because he also needs blood. (But i believe he saw the greater good) 👌 Drummer doing great Drummer things. ❤
There is no 7-month journey back to the ring, because those ships don't have provisions for everyone for 7 months. At most, a small fraction of them could make that journey, with the rest starving to death in orbit of the station. That's why they were testing the alien technology with their bomb, because they need more info on how this technology works if they want to save themselves. (We can trust Holden to fix the problem, because this is a story, we're the audience, and that stories work, but they can't trust the guy who's seeing a ghost and who they think is an OPA terrorist who attacked a UNN ship...because they don't know about Clarissa.)
According to The Investigator (after being re-manifested by James Holden during the events of Leviathan Falls), the beings responsible for the destruction of the Ring Builders exist within a larger, older universe (or some other form of separate reality) within which the bubble of "normal" spacetime constituting the Slow Zone is embedded. The universe beyond the borders of the Slow Zone exerts a tremendous "pressure" on it, and the Ring Station utilizes the energy of this pressure to power itself and maintain the integrity of the Slow Zone. However, in doing so, the Slow Zone continually leeches energy from the surrounding universe, incurring the apparent animosity of the entities which live within it.
a little hand grenade caused the station to lower the speed limit and wipe out a 3rd of the crews. Wonder what a nuke will do? Not the brightest decision. I enjoy your discussions. They didn't really expand on it, but Holden is one of the biggest celebrities in the system. Belters, Martians and Earthers all know about him, so I guess it makes sense for Clarissa to try to take down the symbol in that context. But they really didn't have time to show the extent of Holden's fame.
I'm pretty surprised by how little love Anna has gotten from you since the start of the season. Lost must have really influenced your feelings over the actress' new role, similar to Gus and Edgar.
"It's not about her, it's about us". Me: More like it's her or them and I rather it be them to live and her to die. Like Amos said, I doubt she would be so merciful.
This was the best the show ever got, to me. It never really gets back to this level of perfection. It was like the culmination of everything that led up to this.
Well, here we are still in season 3 and seasons 4, 5, & 6 haven't happened yet. Not for Milena & Lola, at least. Let's keep it that way until they actually get there, okay?
Comment deleted, but I still believe you to be incorrect about it not being romantic, at least on Drummer's part, for the reasons I stated. I agree with you for Naomi's part though.
Ashford is one of my favorite characters in fiction. Complex, intelligent, an actually good person who fights a potentially wrong battle, just a very complicated person that you can never put into a single box. The most amazing thing about him is that the character in the book is *terrible*. A one note nobody cowardly villain. Just a nothing of a character. But the show does that a lot: takes small characters and makes them into so much more.
Just as it did with Drummer.
I agree completely, I love what they did with Ashford in this season. But I guess since they left out Bull from this season, show Ashford is kind of an amalgamation of book Ashford and book Bull-like show Ashford has the basic storyline of book Ashford but with the complicated moral qualms of book Bull. Just a great choice honestly.
Drummer having feelings for Naomi was Cara Gee's (and Dominique Tipper's) idea, and the writing team went along with it. I must say, giving Cara Gee more to do in general compared to her original book counterpart is one of the best decisions the show made.
I'm not going to say the show got lucky, because they spend a lot of time looking for the right actors, but they really struck gold with Cara Gee. And it's funny to see interviews with Cara Gee and discover that's she very different from Camina Drummer.
I’d like to comb Cara Gee’s hair and feed her grapes 😍. But my padded cell has a lock…
Yes, Drummer is in love with Naomi. That became clear to me by what Drummer said when she let Naomi go.
The next episode was written to serve as the series finale. These writers know how to write a great finale. This finale will make you cry, laugh, sweat, and cheer.
Do you think Naomi's aware of that?
@@hazri8758 I thought she might not as I first watched this. But now I believe she did know pretty early on, at least from the point that Drummer allowed her to go back to the Roci. I think now that Naomi abuses Drummer's emotions, knowing that Drummer cannot say "no" to her.
I Don’t think or see it as romantic. To me it's more like the love between 2 sisters.
At the beginning, you got it backwards. *Every* ship got slowed down by the new speed limit. If you go over, the station captures the ship and drags it to the center. However the small ships ("skiffs") that were docked to the big ships, or weren't exceeding the new limit (Bobbie's ship), did not get captured, so they can still move around freely. So basically the big ships can't leave, only some of the small ones can -- and they can't provision those anyway for so many months.
If there are other UN & MCRN ships hanging about outside the Ring, eventually one will stick their nose in to see what's going on. All it will take is a radio message to hold still, go back out, then send in an unmanned freighter loaded with food & med supplies going more than the new speed limit. The station will bring the supplies to the flotilla.
At least that would have been the strategy before Ol' Doc Coolvord's brilliant little experiment. Now time is somewhat more scarce than that.
Ah the advantage or disadvantage of knowing there are more seasons to come. When this aired it had already been announced that the show had been cancelled. So as far was we knew this was going to be the last 2 episodes. So Ashford's plan was a real possibility.
and this is the best season of expanse
@@Saqux I agree whole heartedly.
We got the news that it was renewed the week episode 8 aired, but yeah, we didn't know how many seasons we were gonna get...
"He's like *The Guy* " lmao
Clarissa's self reexamination started with the brain tumor question. Any number of ways she could have replied flippantly or defiantly, but she simply said "No" in a voice so hollow you could hear the ghosts haunting her already. She'd have gladly accepted brain cancer at that moment.
Hey guys, Clarissa view of James Holden.
1. Queen froze all their assets. She lost everything, had to get a job.
2. Holden responsible for capturing her father.
3. A few episodes back, i think 9 or 10 just b4 Clarissa blew up the Sung Yu & implicated Rosinante, she watched an exageratedly edited documentary about Rosinante crew by the reporter Monica Scott. The part where she talks about crew being special? Edited version makes Holden look like a cocky bastard. That added fuel to Clarissa's hatred of Holden.
I just realised this, The guy Melba kills in the other ship is the guy who is willing to give her a chance like a good father. But she is still trying to get revenge for her not so deserving father
This, Ren was the father figure she never realised she deserved, it's quite tragic.
"Just imagine her (Anna) talking to Amos - does not compute!"
Oh boy, I'm looking forward to this reaction :)
Loved it girls! I’ve watched the series 3times lol and honestly I love watching it so much more with you ladies. Thank you for that 🍻
When they squeezed book 3 down to make it fit into the last half of season 3, because they thought the show was ending, some things got left out. Clarissa, for example, was a _much_ more complex and interesting character in the book. (Anna suffered a bit too.) It's one of my few complaints about the season: they kept all the excitement, but not all the depth! The result was still excellent, but I wish they'd had the time and money to do it right!
Could you explain a few things that the show left out? Please.
And this is why for some it's their favourite season but not for me. Still love it though.
@@martinacosta3821 If you do a little digging in the YT videos, there are some people that make B v S comparisons. I'm holding off so I can just read them at some point.
@@martinacosta3821 In the books each chapter focuses on a character's POV and usually there are just a couple you follow through the whole book - like in the first book where we basically only follow Holden and Miller.
In the third book Melba/Clarissa was one of those POVs and there was a lot more about her thoughts and struggles with going through with her mission, especially regarding her killing the mentor mechanic - it really affected her a lot, which we kind of see in the show, but not to the same extent as in the books. I totally understand that they had to cut so much and they did great at that.
Like you said, I love that at this point, only Holden understand how out of its dephts the humankind is. Like... They are worrying about their own tensions, about the station, or the ring... While he witnessed a very, VERY advanced civilisation, wiped out.
( Not that they shouldn't be worrying about the ring, tho' ! )
It must be terryfying to understand that. And not be able to convey it properly to anyone.
I love the acting by Strait in this epidode, I think he beautifully projects that his brain remain a bit scrambled by its interface with The Station's database, one which caused his heart to stop beating once he was back onboard a ship. He's not in his right mind, giving credence to some degree to Ashford's observation that he's a bit of a lunatic talking to a dead man for his information.
Great reaction and analysis ladies as always!
The interaction between Amos and Anna is soooo good! I look forward to the next episode and your reaction to this dynamic.
This season finale is one of the best I've ever seen!
Can't wait!
Doc tells Drummer they have to regrow her spinal cord.
Drummer rages at not being able to help her people.
Love her so much.
Me too. If these gurls actually paid attention to her, I might be a bit more interested in their reactions.
I'm actually flabbergasted the doc didn't put her in a medical coma after the initial trauma surgery was done. She had to know Drummer would refuse if offered a choice. As the CMO on the behemoth she has the authority to make that decision for Drummer.
@@TheDetailsMatter But, without Drummer's help, they'd all be dead because of Ashford. Gotta have the drama lol.
I know this was two years ago, but I had to comment on the actor who played Ashford. David Strathairn has one of those names that is hard to remember. He is brilliant as Ashford. I remember him from Alphas where he played the head of a team that would track down people with supernatural abilities. another show I liked but it got cancelled.
This season always makes me think back to early interactions with the protomolecule. In the human hosts it didn't say much that made sense at the time, but it talked about studying, disassembling and using anything it could to complete "the work". It definitely wasn't interested in communicating with the ants at this anthill while paving the road.
It's so interesting to me that you see Drummer being in love with Naomi. From the books, it's very clear that there's nothing going on between Naomi and Drummer (or Naomi and Michio Pa whose part Drummer took in this season) so I guess I never thought about it in the show. But since you've said it, I can definitely see it, I don't know if it was intentional by the showrunners (who are the authors of the books after all) but yeah, it's an interesting angle.
Missed it my first time through too. Turns out, the actors had the idea & the writers loved it so worked it in. So subtle at first but so glaringly obvious on 2nd watch (for me at least) that it's a stroke of brilliance :D
It’s very obvious from this season onwards, especially in 5.
Someone else mentioned in the comments that it was Cara and Dominique's idea. Edit: supposedly Ty has also answered it in an interview.
problem with Ashford solution is that even if laser did cut through the ring to our solar system, the protomolecular can repair it just as quick with all the "materials" in the hub space. The materials here would be our ships and people stuck in the hub space.
I like your guesses, this episode.
Again, they're all over the place, but *some* of them will turn out quite accurate.
That makes you two fun to watch. 😎
Lola knows what she is doing :)
Lola is gorgeous😍😍
"Ok I'm gonna need that gun back"
Those lines, right up there with
“Thank you”
“No seriously, shut up”
“Float to the top, or sink to the bottom…”
And the greatest of them all.
I won’t quote it- we all know it
Great timing! 👌😊
Clarissa lost all her wealth, power and influence, so she decides to kill the one who is responsible or let's say the one who she thinks is responsible. (Her dad did the bad things but Holden was the one that brought those to the surface and is the cause their "empire / company" got destroyed. Similar things happen in our world. 🤔
One could argue that Ashford did all this things because he is injured and will die if nothing happens, so he did spin the drum to get gravity so his internal bleeding won't kill him and he ordered blood donations because he also needs blood. (But i believe he saw the greater good) 👌
Drummer doing great Drummer things. ❤
There is no 7-month journey back to the ring, because those ships don't have provisions for everyone for 7 months. At most, a small fraction of them could make that journey, with the rest starving to death in orbit of the station. That's why they were testing the alien technology with their bomb, because they need more info on how this technology works if they want to save themselves. (We can trust Holden to fix the problem, because this is a story, we're the audience, and that stories work, but they can't trust the guy who's seeing a ghost and who they think is an OPA terrorist who attacked a UNN ship...because they don't know about Clarissa.)
Clarissa, you guessed right, but it will be much much later.
Family /romantic relationships within the Belters is comlicated. Its not just one man - one woman hook up.
True and not true. That isn't the case for all belters, but belters believe in the personal freedom for broad open relationships.
According to The Investigator (after being re-manifested by James Holden during the events of Leviathan Falls), the beings responsible for the destruction of the Ring Builders exist within a larger, older universe (or some other form of separate reality) within which the bubble of "normal" spacetime constituting the Slow Zone is embedded. The universe beyond the borders of the Slow Zone exerts a tremendous "pressure" on it, and the Ring Station utilizes the energy of this pressure to power itself and maintain the integrity of the Slow Zone. However, in doing so, the Slow Zone continually leeches energy from the surrounding universe, incurring the apparent animosity of the entities which live within it.
a little hand grenade caused the station to lower the speed limit and wipe out a 3rd of the crews. Wonder what a nuke will do? Not the brightest decision. I enjoy your discussions.
They didn't really expand on it, but Holden is one of the biggest celebrities in the system. Belters, Martians and Earthers all know about him, so I guess it makes sense for Clarissa to try to take down the symbol in that context. But they really didn't have time to show the extent of Holden's fame.
I'm pretty surprised by how little love Anna has gotten from you since the start of the season. Lost must have really influenced your feelings over the actress' new role, similar to Gus and Edgar.
Me too! She’s one of my favorite S3 characters by far, alongside Ashford.
"It's not about her, it's about us".
Me: More like it's her or them and I rather it be them to live and her to die. Like Amos said, I doubt she would be so merciful.
This was the best the show ever got, to me. It never really gets back to this level of perfection. It was like the culmination of everything that led up to this.
Our girls are getting smarter and prettier every episode
If you're reading this then answer this very important question... L??? or M???
Let's go !!!
please watch dr stone, you will often get goosebumps when watching it
🥰🥰
If you guys are looking for a new anime to watch then I highly recommend you to watch inuyasha.
😍😍
Surprised you haven't watched Tokyo Ghoul yet, its rollercoaster forsure
No romance girls. Naomi & Drummer is more like a love between 2 sisters......
@@Pandaemoni l
You need to delete this comment...major, major spoilers. We expanse fans are better than this.
Well, here we are still in season 3 and seasons 4, 5, & 6 haven't happened yet. Not for Milena & Lola, at least. Let's keep it that way until they actually get there, okay?
Comment deleted, but I still believe you to be incorrect about it not being romantic, at least on Drummer's part, for the reasons I stated. I agree with you for Naomi's part though.
@@Pandaemoni
You know what, i think i get your point on the Drummer part...