Not sure if this is a good comparison, but I tested a really old Laser Logitech EasyCall Desktop bundled mouse (MX-600 I think) and compared it against a cheap new Lenovo SM-8825 throw-in Optical mouse I found in the closet. I noticed that when doing the "pixel movements" as he calls it, the Laser mouse would miss some small movements. I don't know the exact DPI (the Setpoint just has slow to fast), but it missed movements at either extreme. But the cheap free Optical mouse can detect tiny movements. Even when I set it to slow in Windows, it seems to consistently accumulate small movements before it moves the pointer one pixel length.
+nd4spd (V) some have 10,000. However that is waaaaay too unnecessary. There is almost no situation where above 3200 would be needed. Unless you wanted to do a 360/millimeter
For your acceleration tests, I find it's way easier and more consistent if you swipe quickly first (you don't need to do a 360 or anything, just move it a significant distance) and then slowly come back to where you started on your mouse pad. That way when you move your hand fast, you don't have to be precise.
This is the best laser vs optical comparison I have seen. I too prefer higher DPI, I currently use the 4600 DPI setting in my EVGA TorQ X5 and I disabled acceleration and also set in linux constant deccel sensitivity of -4 in order to make that high DPI the same experience as 4/11 3200dpi is in windows. I only wished they were more mouse companies developing software that run on linux so I don't need to use another computer in order to assign profiles. I really like your videos, they are the best gaming peripherals analysis I've seen on the entire UA-cam.
don't do accelleration tests like this, you get better results by doing the oposite, moving the mouse a certain distance in game slow, and then moving the mouse back to it's original position(irl) and then look if the mouse over, or undershoots it's original position(in-game). if you test that way, almost every lazer sensor has some kind of accelleration at high speeds
+Rocket Jump Ninja (Mouse Reviews and Gaming) you're welcome, also take a look at this article about an interview with a logitech engineer, which explains a lot about mouse sensors in detail. bit.ly/1DnhjMB
+Intuxikated Agreed, I've noticed differences in a lot of mice, but I must say the differences between laser mice amongst themselves is huge. You can't compare a Logitech G9 for instance with this Roccat here, the Roccat will obliterate it everytime.
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but IIRC the mambas typically have a PTE sensor, not a traditional laser sensor. While it's true they do use lasers, they work completely differently. They are more different from normal laser sensors, than normal laser sensors are from normal LED optical sensors. And the issues you described is a well-known issue with PTE sensors specifically, usually called the Z-axis bug or similar. There are ways to reduce the issue, but they have trade-offs too.
Lasers, on the other hand, do a better job of permeating a surface for a more precise look and are thus able to work on more surfaces, including glass. However, because laser mice can permeate deeper into a surface, they are more susceptible to picking up too much information and becoming inaccurate, especially at high speeds. Many people view this problem as having to do with acceleration, but in reality, it's more like a scanning problem. As a basic example, if you swipe your laser mouse quickly in a horizontal line, you should be able to pull your hand back slowly to its starting point and have the cursor on your screen in the same position. However, because a laser mouse picks up more of a surface (and can't read as accurately when traveling quickly), it's also going in different directions than horizontally, resulting in less overall travel in one direction. The bottom line is that a laser mouse is going to have about a five times larger discrepancy in tracking between high and low speeds than an optical mouse.
why laser sensors unable to track short range of movements?while optical sensors can track smaller movements pretty well,runs with lower dpi accurately
In a sense there isn't acceleration, but laser mice actually have a worse problem: innacurate tracking and reading. Essentially they fail to measure the distance that you move your mouse when you move at higher speeds (I found an average of 10% variance (distance I had to move MORE on the pad when going fast than when I went slowly due to it not reading 10% of the distance) and I even got 15 to 20% variance when I moved extremely fast but naturally on a hard pad). I've tested this personally when I found inconsistencies with my Corsair M65 every time. I was able to play really well but eventually I found these weird situations that messed with my flickshot muscle memory. Then I took some 360 turn measurements. My ingame sensitivity is always 13 inches for a 360 degree turn. I tried to replicate this in PUBG and initially I thought the game had acceleration or smoothing. Then I disabled everything and found the problem had somehow gone unnoticed in Rainbow Six Siege. So I tested the distance on my mousepad required to make a 360 and the distance would INCREASE with faster turn rates (taking 2.5 seconds to do a 360 vs like .5 seconds which is more realisitc in an FPS shooter). Essentially it was not properly measuring the ground I was covering and was fucking up my "1:1" mouse movement to character turn rate and thus messing up my aim in various situations. The G502 Spectrum is probably the BEST mouse in the market now as it has none of these problems as it has objectively the best sensor available among other things. Laser mice ARE worse. It is not even a debate. If it has forced "acceleration" (it's not even acceleration, but rather poor tracking) it is not anywhere near the best mouse out there. A laser mouse can therefore never be better (unless the optical sensor somehow has the same issues which is rare).
Not to mention particular sensors, generally speaking. We can say that the main difference is to be found in reading the superficie the mouse is used. Laser is best for hard surfaces. Optical ( Led / Infrared) is better for soft. as meny players use this type of mousepads is generally the best results given.
In a sense there isn't acceleration, but laser mice actually have a worse problem: innacurate tracking and reading. Essentially they fail to measure the distance that you move your mouse when you move at higher speeds (I found an average of 10% variance (distance I had to move MORE on the pad when going fast than when I went slowly due to it not reading 10% of the distance) and I even got 15 to 20% variance when I moved extremely fast but naturally on a hard pad). I've tested this personally when I found inconsistencies with my Corsair M65 every time. I was able to play really well but eventually I found these weird situations that messed with my flickshot muscle memory. Then I took some 360 turn measurements. My ingame sensitivity is always 13 inches for a 360 degree turn. I tried to replicate this in PUBG and initially I thought the game had acceleration or smoothing. Then I disabled everything and found the problem had somehow gone unnoticed in Rainbow Six Siege. So I tested the distance on my mousepad required to make a 360 and the distance would INCREASE with faster turn rates (taking 2.5 seconds to do a 360 vs like .5 seconds which is more realisitc in an FPS shooter). Essentially it was not properly measuring the ground I was covering and was fucking up my "1:1" mouse movement to character turn rate and thus messing up my aim in various situations. The G502 Spectrum is probably the BEST mouse in the market now as it has none of these problems as it has objectively the best sensor available among other things. Laser mice ARE worse. It is not even a debate. If it has forced "acceleration" (it's not even acceleration, but rather poor tracking) it is not anywhere near the best mouse out there. A laser mouse can therefore never be better (unless the optical sensor somehow has the same issues which is rare).
I've used laser before. I'm sure they last long now, but the last laser mouse I had tracked well at first and then slowly over time tracked worse and worse the more use it got. It was also a $100 Logitech mouse which is crazy to think. Optical is always the way to go if you can get a mousepad. If you don't have the option for a mousepad, aka no mousepad with laptop then a laser is definantly useful.
Thanks for posting this, I thought I was going crazy. I have the roccat tyon and if even a little bit of dust gets on the sensor it feels like I have Parkinson's disease or someone is constantly changing my sensitivity.
Thanks for the video Zy, I do not have the same experience as you in numbers of mice, but for my humble experience I find the laser mouse faster can pin point easier, but I can aim better with the optic . Find the optic more easy to control, but I miss the quickness of the laser. My comment can sound rubbish but is what I feel when playing with them. An interesting part of the video is the acceleration that all people say, can be a Myth? or the 1st generation of mice was like that? or some of laser are like that? Can I suggest you doing a test with other laser vs optic concerning the acceleration? Thanks my friend for the time and videos .
+Coolissim0 Unl1mited Yeah some lasers can have those issues, the laser sensor in this Roccat Kone Pure is actually the best I've used. But it still isn't as good as the optical. The only advantage of the laser is apparently surfaces... it can track on more surfaces. Although I've heard they're not as good on cloth pads, go figure!
Razer is guilty of the exaggerated DPI settings thing, for sure. But on the bright side, they do offer mice with both an optical and a laser sensor together.
0:30 The reason it moves is because it is so sensitive. This just further proves the superior surface reading and precision ability of a laser mouse! 🤔This could have something to do with the _subjective speckle pattern_ that is observed when laser light hits a surface and is reflected into the observer's eye or in this case the laser mouse's camera (light sensor). They were invented because they're more precise than optical mice and not as a marketing scam. The laser light can just read surfaces more precisely and thus why you can use them on glass although I would find that to be very uncomfortable. You would think that it wouldn't be a good idea to use glass as a surface to play on because it would get stained by your hand oils or sweat very easily. Just use a mousepad like you're supposed to.
My Steelseries Sensei RAW has VERY noticeable acceleration even with the OS/software acceleration disabled. I play osu (a rhythm game) and by the time I'm done playing a 3+ minute song, my hand will be several inches further away than where I started at. I can even feel myself losing grip halfway through a song. I would like to get a Zowie FK soon to see if I still have this problem. Hopefully I wont.
Hey Im in the Market for a new Mouse, Im using the Corsair Sabre Optical! Im really torn between the G303 and the Roccat Kone Military(considering optical and laser), I think il be comfortable with both designs... 18x10 hand size (weird i know)... i know that sensor wise G303 is the best... but i've heard users who have botht he orccat and the g303 say that roccat performed better...how much of a big difference is really there between these 2 optical sensors in these mice in your opinion? which would u favor? Also if it came to a choice between the laser and the optical of the roccat kones...knowing that the laser has the better texture... would that affect your decision enough to go for the laser over optical? how much more nicer is it :P honestly i would've just checked them both out.. but both these mice aren't widely available... so your opinions mean a lot to me ! great channel! subscribed :)
I am getting a steel series rival 300, my trash hp mouse has a laser sensor, and has awkward sides (the side is flat making it feel extremely small and makes me hands ache when claw gripping).
Is it ok to test a laser sensor on a cloth mat? The precision test made my jaw drop. I am rocking a 10 years old Logitech G500 with a S9500 laser sensor and while it's just so inferior to the mice tested here that I can't make a real comparison, I found that my precision tests worked better on my naked desk than on a cloth mat. I have read somewhere that cloths are optimal for optical mice but not for lasers, they can read vertical movements and therefore hate bumpy surfaces, not to mention they may be bright enough to penetrate the cloth to a certain degree and we would not know, since they are infrared. They also suggested using a flat, smooth surface for laser sensors. And it makes sense to me because I ditched the mat long ago because I felt better playing on my bare desk. Zy mind to make clarity here? I want a Nyth but your precision test disturbed me more than it should have : (
Yeah that's right, but the Nyth has a sensor that can't track tiny movements, so while it doesn't suffer from the same issue, it has a worse one. Hard pad with 800 DPI seems ok for laser, but there are so many good mice with top optical sensors now, you shouldn't even need to consider laser.
@@RocketJumpNinja Thanks for answering. I know I should not, but I play I wide variety of games so I think I will just have to wrap my head around the fact that Roccat didn't put one of their awesome optical sensors in the Nyth, because it's modularity is just too sexy for me to say no. Anyway I play fast paced FPSs too so I think my best option is to get another mouse just for them, but I'm worried about running out of buttons in some tactical shooters so i hoped that the Nyth was not performing 100%. But maybe for them the Nyth is enough.
+Pyce I've stopped testing for it ... it was just so bad on the Razer Lachesis (caused me to miss clicks constantly) that it was still a big deal. But I haven't had the problem since then, so it's no longer relevant. Basically when pushing down on the mouse, it detects movement and moves the cursor... thus every time you click, it moves off what you wanted to click! Ideal = no movement.
try moving your mouse left and right repeatedly and maintain on the same line for 10 secs. eventually the mouse cursor will swing up and up. happens to laser and optical mouse i own.
Han Siang Ng i did some more testing. at 1600 dpi mine sometimes seems to go up a bit, then down again, but always stays at the same general height without any clear trend, and i attribute that to variance in my hand movement. at 400 dpi it goes down consistently. kone xtd optical in win10 too, on a steelseries qck xxl. seems like this needs some investigation.
i think for it to've been a fair comparison the laser mouse should've been used on a hard mat. of for a more comprehensive evaluation one where both are used on hard surfaces would be nice
Cristian Oprisanu It should be in a few of the latest mouse pad reviews... because I test the surfaces with laser and optical, and one I did against a hard pad too. I wouldn't say high end mice are using lasers... can't think of one that I'd actually want.
Yeah, but that's not the point. Mamba, Diamondback, Ouroborus, all lazer. Naos and Avior series, top of the line, 8200 models, both laser. Cougar's top of the line series 600m, 700m ... laser. Corsair and Logitech are doing the right thing i guess going all optical and Roccat are being "fair" giving you equally priced options. It can be confusing i guess is what i'm trying to say, because of the different marketing plans that brands have, that don't necessarily reflect performance.
I need a help and explaination! I have roccat kone pure colour...It has avago optical sensor and it wont work on my steelseries qck mouse mat....its very anoying issue...
+oğuzhan aydn I think the question is more "can a laser sensor work well on anything?", I think they just have issues regardless of surface, but we'll see when I get a hard pad.
+oğuzhan aydn laser sensors are less picky about surfaces than optical ones. One of the reasons why travel mice use laser sensors is because they assume you won't be carrying a mouse pad with you and laser sensors track on pretty much every surface. Whether or not they track as good under ideal conditions as an optical sensor is a different story, though.
i notice some peaple look too much about how much dpi,cpi etc -- what matter is senzor and build quality , i have logitech g602 and its awesome ( work like its not wireless perfect ) and its have ,,only,, 2500 dpi . now for ANY game its more than enough for good control 1600 dpi
+Jack Armitage Roccat won't send me one, the community doesn't vote for it in the Amazon votes and I'm not paying $100+ for a mouse I wouldn't ever use. So ah ... not yet? :D
Noob here, can someone clarify on what is the difference between an optical sensor and a laser sensor? When a mouse is advertised as an optical mouse, does it mean that it uses an LED (red? blue? infrared?) for tracking the surface? When it is said to be a laser mouse, it uses a laser for tracking?
Yeah, that's pretty much it. Laser uses a laser to emmit light. Optical uses a LED (red or IR). But that has more implications. The laser can penetrate inside the surface of the mousepad or desk. Thus, the sensor detects a more noisy image. That' the reason for more jitter in laser sensors, for example.
Guys I have a problem here ... I've got a 10euro mouse from the brand 1life and it performs perfectly on those tests you did with those mouses ... does that mean that I shouldn't buy the roccat or it's still worth the upgrade ?
Yes buy a gaming mouse. Your mouse is doing well.... Yeah but can't it handle flicks? try to move your mouse from the beginning till the end slowly and see where the curser lands in game then try to move it fast from the beginning till the end and see if it lands at the same place. If you move it fast and it points to the sky or ground that means it has a bad sensor.
lol i always play shooting games and aiming pro with sensors but now i think it is not my aim because i really always think that the sensor ones are really jerky 1 pixel movements are bad and it seems inaccurate and even small movements are needed to use some more force than the optical ones and usually goes off target
+Rocket Jump Ninja (Mouse Reviews and Gaming) what's funny is I just got a new mouse - func ms2, and the software has no driver sensitivity outside of the OS setting. I tried setting 6/11 1600cpi, and 4/11 3200cpi and they felt identical in circle/line tests. My roccat I used the internal sens of -3 (which would be like 3/11 OS) and at 3200cpi it was identical to 1600 1:1 cpi.
+DarKcS2 Not exactly, anything past 6/11 is unevenly applied while anything beneath is fine, this works as a multiplier in the sense that. 5/11 is 0.75 -> every 4th count is dropped. 4/11 is 0.5 -> every 2nd count is 1 pixel. And so on.
+Rodney Glinski sorry didn't get the notification for this one! Interesting, I'm not even sure how Roccat figure out their sensitivities ... is it over complicated or a good thing?
+Xyon Finisher Currently using a SteelSeries QCK+, my favourite is the Razer DeathAdder Goliathus, just wish they'd make it in plain black again. Still waiting on a mousepad I'd like to recommend more. I'll have some mouse pad reviews soon, but for now, Razer Goliathus Speed Edition is the best in my opinion.
could mice sensors vary from product to product? like how the whole sillicone lottery concept with CPU, but maybe also stemming from QC/manufacturing margin of error?
you really need to get sponsored, i would love to see all the gaming companies send you their models for comparison. The recent video on linus tech tips showed Luke being toured through the logitech compound in hype for the g900...but so far all we have are fancy machines and graphs. Nothing real like what you do here.
+Justin Tung Some companies are sending me products now, but I'll need 100,000 subscribers to really get attention, I think. Maybe a million to get Logitech and Razer.
100,000??? Well i dont see why not, youre the only one who makes these quality reviews. I have faith that good content does get noticed. Maybe you can ask some of your fans to send in mice models that you dont have so you can create more new content if acquiring them is a financial problem? Can't believe you spend your own money to buy all those...
Justin Tung Yeah the channel was expensive to set up, but it's self sustaining now... only have to buy a few mice. I have plenty to review so no need for people to send anything!
Vertical movements in this regard are bad, because the the sensor shouldn't be detecting anything at all when I'm pressing down on it. But on most mice, they're not too bad. On the Razer Lachesis... every time I clicked the left mouse button, it would detect a vertical movement and end up closing programs and stuff. Very frustrating, very bad. Kone Pure Laser ... not so bad.
Could somebody explain to me how low dpi make movement more jittery. Are over 90% of pro cs go players just misinformed or stuck in the past? Dosn't make sense to me :/
With low dpi, your mouse tracks less input and is more jittery. However, in cs:go, low dpi is prefered because it is easier to aim, even with higher in game sens. I use 800 total dpi (mouse dpi x in game sens) So 800dpi at 1 sens or 400 at 2. I will tend to use 800 and 1.
Man i buy this Roccat kone pure laser last year and the sensor bug everytime when you try to aim sometimes it does involuntary movements like crazy and sometimes you need to unplug and plugin again because it just get só much crazy that you cant move it properly anymore. I never experienced that before with any mouse i bought since Microsoft's intellimouse. It was really the worst mouse ive ever had.
My laser mouse doesn't do anything if I just push on it. Seriously, to me it's a stupid fight between laser and optical, because it depends of the mouse and of the player, just try both.
i have roccat Kone Pure optical sensor sometime getting lag so know i have roccat tyon good not best for me .. something i hate it of roccat the software so bad what is your game in video ?
you should mention that input lag into future reviews, i found that my fk 1 had alot more sensor lag than my g303, bought the fk1 last year after the button lag reduction.
+Reasure Yeah I have to rely on whether or not it stops me from playing well instead. Razer Mamba TE for example, just can't aim properly. Can aim DeathAdder Chroma quite well though.
I just bought the Razer Mamba TE with the 5G laser sensor is there much difference between that and a optical sensor while playing FPS games ? I would like to know how accurate the 5g laser sensor is compared to a optical one in % if anyone could tell me thanks
Im not like the whole complete albert enstien of mouses but what i think. Having a high quality sensor like 5g will detect a lot more pixels than something
Question: Is it better to use low DPI and higher in-game sensitivity or higher DPI and lower in-game sensitivity? If either can someone please tell me why? Thanks a bunch to anyone who can enlighten me.
Low DPI will make the movement jittery. High DPI apparently adds some delay. Happy medium is use 1600 DPI and adjust your sensitivity in game to suit you.
i dont think that high sensitivity is gd for gaming especially its sometimes irritating while using snipers.(n.b-cs players usually play games with 400-800dpi only)
+Kmah smith The only time I've noticed a difference is when a mouse malfunctions at one or the other, forcing us to use a different one. We can look into it, but as far as I'm aware, it doesn't really matter.
People who say x Hz is better be it 500hz basically say that the sensor feels more "predictable" in 500hz. Their reasoning is that they feel like their are more consistent as the mouse does not always run at 1000hz. I have no idea how people test it and the people on the forms do not state how they test if the mouse is running at x Hz at a certain time in game. Advocates of 500hz also said that if the mouse is running at 500hz have a higher perfect control speed(wut, makes no sense to me). People who say that 1000hz is better bring the math reasoning and basicly say it's faster and feels more responsive. 1000hz from what i know is better for users using strobing(light boost), ulmb or g sync as there is less micro stutters/any visible to the eye. Mentioned in this article form blur busters www.blurbusters.com/mouse-125hz-vs-500hz-vs-1000hz/ G sync, ulmb and/or light boost seem to increase the visibility of the micro stutter at lower mouse polling rates.
Kmah smith I'll have to check into it more, there's way too much misinformation out there, and I've come across a lot of "mouse elite" types that state their opinions as fact, even though they have nothing to support them. So we'll see I guess! I'll add it to the list of things to check.
Well I've had a lot of optical and laser gaming mice and there really isn't much of a difference. You can have optical sensors better then laser sensors and vice versa. The only thing I can say for sure is that laser sensors in Razer mice have lag. Some worse then other but it's there. Since it's not much of an issue coz if you play 60FPS you have at least 16.6ms of lag anyway, but it's a thing to consider.
guys ik this question might be dumb but im playing cs go with 5 year old mouse or more x7 antivibrate mouse and its not bad but im interested are new mouses worth to buy? are they much better ?
Gujiko Khintibidze Haha just get the Roccat Kone Pure Military (Naval Storm) version... apparently it has very little chance of rattle. No guarantee though... still, not that big a problem!
I have been researching mice last days and trying to figure out which one to buy :D, my favourites are g303 and ss rival 100. what would u do in my place im using 400 dpi palm grip
Gujiko Khintibidze Rival 100 can't do 400 DPI, it can do 500 though. Personally I prefer the G303, which can do 400 DPI too. Depends what shape you like though.
I don't like optical mice because I don't like to use a mouse pad. I use my mouse straight on the table and I have a table with a shiny fake wood surface that is super smooth. As a result I have always found optical have tracking issues on it while laser mice work just fine on it. Currently using a G5 mouse (at 1000 DPI) but it is getting old and I need to find a replacement. Logitech does not seem to make laser gaming mice any more and even if I went optical, all their new mice have so many useless buttons in annoying places. But this has put me in quite the pickle because watching this video I can see that optical gaming mice do have certain advantages but then I need a mousepad :(
You presume the reason I don't have mousepad is because of money - money not the issue. I just don't like mousepads as I prefer the texture and comfort of my table surface over the texture of mouse pads.
Ah. Hmmm. Not sure what to tell you then. Although, maybe you could just try getting used to a mousepad (probably my best recommendation at this point tbh). Maybe just go with a cheaper one and see if you can get used to it. Unless, of course, you've already tried.
Interesting. I don't think I have ever met someone (seen, yes, but not actually talked with and/or met) who really prefers the surface of their desk over a mousepad. I suppose you'll just have to hope that the market doesn't go all optical. Although, for laser mice, I recommend looking up Zy's videos on Roccat mice (assuming, of course, that you haven't already done this). Quite a few of the Roccat mice actually have quite good laser sensors.
+Rocket Jump Ninja (Mouse Reviews and Gaming) but did you get it as a "gaming " mouse or was it just what you happened to get with a new computer build or something? For me, I didn't know it was a "gaming" mouse when I got it, but that's when I started playing PC games, so there's that...
Their is acceleration even if you could not feel it, acceleration is inherent to 9500, 9800 architecture. I visited Logitech last year and talked to Francois Morier, here is a thread about it have a look at the tracking speed machine with the disked with different surfaces this machine was made and tested and verified by logitech and external compagnies Francois told me how much approximatly % wise the difference would be. But its very depending on mouse surface. A test with your hand is not a good test at all to compare sensors. I would recommend to read the thread though:www.overclock.net/t/1526139/our-visit-to-the-logitech-daniel-borel-innovation-center-by-ino-and-ctrlaltel1te as well this thread is a very good read www.overclock.net/t/1251156/an-overview-of-mouse-technology And for testing purposes I would recommend www.overclock.net/t/1535687/mousetester-software this program.
+Rik Akkerman what is the acceleration being talked about then? Because the test I did had nothing to do with what I felt, it was about how far the mouse travelled VS how far the aim moved on screen.
+Rocket Jump Ninja (Mouse Reviews and Gaming) I have not watched the video I just thought the video was about it seeing the titled said laser vs optical.. . hehe
ive personally never noticed anything significant, what i will say is that the optical mice i have used, were alot more ''raw'' and felt better overall, however the shape of the sensei is too good for me to give up. The rapoo looked like a perfect replacement for me until i heard of the sensor lag and left right click lag.
ye i was talking about the v300 though as replacement that shape looks like sex. but let us know if they ever update the software with LOD and delay and all that jazz
Do you have rawinput on?If you dont put it on.If there is no option in quake then im sorry and if you do.Im saying this bcs you sed you use 4/11 Windows sens,it doesnt mattre if you have rawinput ot.And im not a quake players so sry im a cs player form 2002.
if the deathadder is ment to be a good optical mouse im sticking with laser ive had 2 deathadders and both have felt stuttery on certain games plug in my kone pure laser and its smooth as butter :S
+Nuclear Harry Sounds like something else is wrong. You can see in the DeathAdder Chroma comparison videos that the sensor is smooth (the old versions were smooth too). I haven't seen any quality laser sensors yet, although the Roccat Kone Pure laser is the best I've tested.
i tried a 2014 one on win 8.1 back then and it stutterd on certain titles and tried a chroma one a few months back and it had the same issues to the extent i thought it was my game but soon as i plugged my kone pure in it was silky smooth now on win 10 might try the kone pure optical but i really didnt like the deathadder build quality was pretty cheap aswell
+Nuclear Harry Yeah that's something I love about the Kone Pures, feel so good, great build. But sensor wise, I'd definitely go for the DeathAdder Chroma instead of the Kone Pure Laser. What DPI do you use?
i use 1800dpi then mess with in game sensitivity to get them all the same. its weird because i have large hands and kone pure is quite a small mouse but its so comfy for me i dont see myself changing anytime soon but i do want to try out the rog gladius to see if thats any good
Even through you said nothing over 85 grams you should get a Rival 110 it's only 5 grams more and it's optical and has 75000 dpi and the sensor is great and where I brought it was at Wal-Mart for 22$
+SeacryBlastsAloT It's ok! Here's the script of what I said: "Ok great sensor debate 3, laser vs optical, so I have the Roccat Kone Pures here, and I think the sensor's one generation off, this being an R3 Laser sensor, and this being an R4 Optic sensor." So I guess you understood "R4" as "awful", so that makes sense, it does sound a bit similar. That line is apparently wrong though, someone told me that the R3 Laser and R4 Optic are actually the same generation. Haven't actually looked it up since, not that important. Anyway, yes, great sensor!
+Rocket Jump Ninja omg Sorry for my bad english $killz. I think it's stupid that roccat calls their sensors R3 and R4 cause nobody knows which sensor it really is. I personally have the laser mouse and it has the best material quality of all mice out there but the laser sucks. luckily you helped me to find my perfect mouse. your vids are awesome. roccal military here i come.
+SeacryBlastsAloT Haha it's ok! And you're right, it is weird when they say R3 and R4... they make it harder to find out the real information that we want. I agree on the materials of the laser version, they feel so good. The Kone Military is also good, but the top is hard plastic instead. Everything else feels the same. Great mouse. Just don't get the Desert one, it has a higher chance of a rattling sensor or lens. I've heard the Naval Storm is the one to get... haven't tried it yet though. Hope you get a good one!
![Laser vs Optical Mouse - Which Is Better for Gaming? [Simple Guide]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FBD4x8YNXOY/mqdefault.jpg)
Ball mouses obviously.
i am really suprised that you don't have more subs dude. your channel is really good!
+tuur3000 thanks! Started the channel in July, just takes time to build I think.
Ooh yeah, but really dude. Your channel is awesome!Rocket Jump Ninja (Mouse Reviews and Gaming)
+tuur3000 Really glad to hear that! All this support you guys are giving me is inspiring me to do more videos. So expect more soon!
+Rocket Jump Ninja (Mouse Reviews and Gaming) no problem dude
He has 270k rn
Optical will always be the winner. For some it might be hard to tell the differences, but they are there.
+Lord Shred agreed.
Not sure if this is a good comparison, but I tested a really old Laser Logitech EasyCall Desktop bundled mouse (MX-600 I think) and compared it against a cheap new Lenovo SM-8825 throw-in Optical mouse I found in the closet. I noticed that when doing the "pixel movements" as he calls it, the Laser mouse would miss some small movements. I don't know the exact DPI (the Setpoint just has slow to fast), but it missed movements at either extreme. But the cheap free Optical mouse can detect tiny movements. Even when I set it to slow in Windows, it seems to consistently accumulate small movements before it moves the pointer one pixel length.
So what is the highest CPI/DPI that optical sensors go to?
+nd4spd (V) some have 10,000. However that is waaaaay too unnecessary. There is almost no situation where above 3200 would be needed. Unless you wanted to do a 360/millimeter
It's nice for mice to accommodate double (6400) just in-case.
Maybe laser tech will advance.
For your acceleration tests, I find it's way easier and more consistent if you swipe quickly first (you don't need to do a 360 or anything, just move it a significant distance) and then slowly come back to where you started on your mouse pad. That way when you move your hand fast, you don't have to be precise.
+David Livermore Interesting, I'll give it a try, thanks!
This is the best laser vs optical comparison I have seen. I too prefer higher DPI, I currently use the 4600 DPI setting in my EVGA TorQ X5 and I disabled acceleration and also set in linux constant deccel sensitivity of -4 in order to make that high DPI the same experience as 4/11 3200dpi is in windows. I only wished they were more mouse companies developing software that run on linux so I don't need to use another computer in order to assign profiles.
I really like your videos, they are the best gaming peripherals analysis I've seen on the entire UA-cam.
+Luis Jesús Díaz Thanks! Yeah it's a shame we don't have more Linux support. There are some decent drivers for Roccat at least.
don't do accelleration tests like this, you get better results by doing the oposite, moving the mouse a certain distance in game slow, and then moving the mouse back to it's original position(irl) and then look if the mouse over, or undershoots it's original position(in-game). if you test that way, almost every lazer sensor has some kind of accelleration at high speeds
+Intuxikated interesting, I'll give it a try next time. Thanks for the tip!
+Rocket Jump Ninja (Mouse Reviews and Gaming) you're welcome, also take a look at this article about an interview with a logitech engineer, which explains a lot about mouse sensors in detail.
bit.ly/1DnhjMB
+Intuxikated thanks, have seen most of it though, I get the theory but my in game tests seem to contradict what they say.
+Intuxikated Agreed, I've noticed differences in a lot of mice, but I must say the differences between laser mice amongst themselves is huge. You can't compare a Logitech G9 for instance with this Roccat here, the Roccat will obliterate it everytime.
+Kind Old Raven yeah lazer mice have improved a lot in this regard, but they're still not as good as optical sensors
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but IIRC the mambas typically have a PTE sensor, not a traditional laser sensor. While it's true they do use lasers, they work completely differently. They are more different from normal laser sensors, than normal laser sensors are from normal LED optical sensors. And the issues you described is a well-known issue with PTE sensors specifically, usually called the Z-axis bug or similar. There are ways to reduce the issue, but they have trade-offs too.
I have the razer mamba TE and after I set the lift distance in the software to the minimum there is no problem lifting it off the mat.
Lasers, on the other hand, do a better job of permeating a surface for a more precise look and are thus able to work on more surfaces, including glass. However, because laser mice can permeate deeper into a surface, they are more susceptible to picking up too much information and becoming inaccurate, especially at high speeds. Many people view this problem as having to do with acceleration, but in reality, it's more like a scanning problem.
As a basic example, if you swipe your laser mouse quickly in a horizontal line, you should be able to pull your hand back slowly to its starting point and have the cursor on your screen in the same position. However, because a laser mouse picks up more of a surface (and can't read as accurately when traveling quickly), it's also going in different directions than horizontally, resulting in less overall travel in one direction. The bottom line is that a laser mouse is going to have about a five times larger discrepancy in tracking between high and low speeds than an optical mouse.
why laser sensors unable to track short range of movements?while optical sensors can track smaller movements pretty well,runs with lower dpi accurately
Surprising to see that acceleration isn't the problem here. Good information.
In a sense there isn't acceleration, but laser mice actually have a worse problem: innacurate tracking and reading. Essentially they fail to measure the distance that you move your mouse when you move at higher speeds (I found an average of 10% variance (distance I had to move MORE on the pad when going fast than when I went slowly due to it not reading 10% of the distance) and I even got 15 to 20% variance when I moved extremely fast but naturally on a hard pad). I've tested this personally when I found inconsistencies with my Corsair M65 every time. I was able to play really well but eventually I found these weird situations that messed with my flickshot muscle memory. Then I took some 360 turn measurements. My ingame sensitivity is always 13 inches for a 360 degree turn. I tried to replicate this in PUBG and initially I thought the game had acceleration or smoothing. Then I disabled everything and found the problem had somehow gone unnoticed in Rainbow Six Siege. So I tested the distance on my mousepad required to make a 360 and the distance would INCREASE with faster turn rates (taking 2.5 seconds to do a 360 vs like .5 seconds which is more realisitc in an FPS shooter). Essentially it was not properly measuring the ground I was covering and was fucking up my "1:1" mouse movement to character turn rate and thus messing up my aim in various situations. The G502 Spectrum is probably the BEST mouse in the market now as it has none of these problems as it has objectively the best sensor available among other things. Laser mice ARE worse. It is not even a debate. If it has forced "acceleration" (it's not even acceleration, but rather poor tracking) it is not anywhere near the best mouse out there. A laser mouse can therefore never be better (unless the optical sensor somehow has the same issues which is rare).
If you have a quality laser mouse, it won't have acceleration.
Not to mention particular sensors, generally speaking.
We can say that the main difference is to be found in reading the superficie the mouse is used.
Laser is best for hard surfaces.
Optical ( Led / Infrared) is better for soft. as meny players use this type of mousepads is generally the best results given.
+dc155h I might have to get a hard pad for tests.
In a sense there isn't acceleration, but laser mice actually have a worse problem: innacurate tracking and reading. Essentially they fail to measure the distance that you move your mouse when you move at higher speeds (I found an average of 10% variance (distance I had to move MORE on the pad when going fast than when I went slowly due to it not reading 10% of the distance) and I even got 15 to 20% variance when I moved extremely fast but naturally on a hard pad). I've tested this personally when I found inconsistencies with my Corsair M65 every time. I was able to play really well but eventually I found these weird situations that messed with my flickshot muscle memory. Then I took some 360 turn measurements. My ingame sensitivity is always 13 inches for a 360 degree turn. I tried to replicate this in PUBG and initially I thought the game had acceleration or smoothing. Then I disabled everything and found the problem had somehow gone unnoticed in Rainbow Six Siege. So I tested the distance on my mousepad required to make a 360 and the distance would INCREASE with faster turn rates (taking 2.5 seconds to do a 360 vs like .5 seconds which is more realisitc in an FPS shooter). Essentially it was not properly measuring the ground I was covering and was fucking up my "1:1" mouse movement to character turn rate and thus messing up my aim in various situations. The G502 Spectrum is probably the BEST mouse in the market now as it has none of these problems as it has objectively the best sensor available among other things. Laser mice ARE worse. It is not even a debate. If it has forced "acceleration" (it's not even acceleration, but rather poor tracking) it is not anywhere near the best mouse out there. A laser mouse can therefore never be better (unless the optical sensor somehow has the same issues which is rare).
I've used laser before. I'm sure they last long now, but the last laser mouse I had tracked well at first and then slowly over time tracked worse and worse the more use it got. It was also a $100 Logitech mouse which is crazy to think. Optical is always the way to go if you can get a mousepad. If you don't have the option for a mousepad, aka no mousepad with laptop then a laser is definantly useful.
Thanks for posting this, I thought I was going crazy. I have the roccat tyon and if even a little bit of dust gets on the sensor it feels like I have Parkinson's disease or someone is constantly changing my sensitivity.
Thanks for the video Zy, I do not have the same experience as you in numbers of mice, but for my humble experience I find the laser mouse faster can pin point easier, but I can aim better with the optic . Find the optic more easy to control, but I miss the quickness of the laser. My comment can sound rubbish but is what I feel when playing with them. An interesting part of the video is the acceleration that all people say, can be a Myth? or the 1st generation of mice was like that? or some of laser are like that? Can I suggest you doing a test with other laser vs optic concerning the acceleration? Thanks my friend for the time and videos .
+Coolissim0 Unl1mited Yeah some lasers can have those issues, the laser sensor in this Roccat Kone Pure is actually the best I've used. But it still isn't as good as the optical. The only advantage of the laser is apparently surfaces... it can track on more surfaces. Although I've heard they're not as good on cloth pads, go figure!
Wow u have grovn 17k since i subbed! And it was only 1 month ago ore something ! You deserve it man!
dude your vids are good btw :D you have
got sufficient evidence and information for judgments
Razer is guilty of the exaggerated DPI settings thing, for sure. But on the bright side, they do offer mice with both an optical and a laser sensor together.
What's the game that you show in all your mouse review?=P
0:30 The reason it moves is because it is so sensitive. This just further proves the superior surface reading and precision ability of a laser mouse!
🤔This could have something to do with the _subjective speckle pattern_ that is observed when laser light hits a surface and is reflected into the observer's eye or in this case the laser mouse's camera (light sensor). They were invented because they're more precise than optical mice and not as a marketing scam. The laser light can just read surfaces more precisely and thus why you can use them on glass although I would find that to be very uncomfortable. You would think that it wouldn't be a good idea to use glass as a surface to play on because it would get stained by your hand oils or sweat very easily. Just use a mousepad like you're supposed to.
My Steelseries Sensei RAW has VERY noticeable acceleration even with the OS/software acceleration disabled. I play osu (a rhythm game) and by the time I'm done playing a 3+ minute song, my hand will be several inches further away than where I started at. I can even feel myself losing grip halfway through a song. I would like to get a Zowie FK soon to see if I still have this problem. Hopefully I wont.
Hey
Im in the Market for a new Mouse, Im using the Corsair Sabre Optical!
Im really torn between the G303 and the Roccat Kone Military(considering optical and laser), I think il be comfortable with both designs... 18x10 hand size (weird i know)...
i know that sensor wise G303 is the best... but i've heard users who have botht he orccat and the g303 say that roccat performed better...how much of a big difference is really there between these 2 optical sensors in these mice in your opinion? which would u favor?
Also if it came to a choice between the laser and the optical of the roccat kones...knowing that the laser has the better texture... would that affect your decision enough to go for the laser over optical? how much more nicer is it :P
honestly i would've just checked them both out.. but both these mice aren't widely available... so your opinions mean a lot to me !
great channel! subscribed :)
what is the mouse name\
So Optical is better ? :D
I haven't been good at FPS since i got an optical mouse. Time to go back.
that's most definitely more because of the mouse the sensor is in, and not because of the sensor.
or it's because you're just bad and it has nothing to do with the mouse
I am getting a steel series rival 300, my trash hp mouse has a laser sensor, and has awkward sides (the side is flat making it feel extremely small and makes me hands ache when claw gripping).
Is it ok to test a laser sensor on a cloth mat?
The precision test made my jaw drop. I am rocking a 10 years old Logitech G500 with a
S9500 laser sensor and while it's just so inferior to the mice tested here that I can't make a real comparison, I found that my precision tests worked better on my naked desk than on a cloth mat. I have read somewhere that cloths are optimal for optical mice but not for lasers, they can read vertical movements and therefore hate bumpy surfaces, not to mention they may be bright enough to penetrate the cloth to a certain degree and we would not know, since they are infrared. They also suggested using a flat, smooth surface for laser sensors. And it makes sense to me because I ditched the mat long ago because I felt better playing on my bare desk.
Zy mind to make clarity here? I want a Nyth but your precision test disturbed me more than it should have : (
Yeah that's right, but the Nyth has a sensor that can't track tiny movements, so while it doesn't suffer from the same issue, it has a worse one. Hard pad with 800 DPI seems ok for laser, but there are so many good mice with top optical sensors now, you shouldn't even need to consider laser.
@@RocketJumpNinja Thanks for answering. I know I should not, but I play I wide variety of games so I think I will just have to wrap my head around the fact that Roccat didn't put one of their awesome optical sensors in the Nyth, because it's modularity is just too sexy for me to say no. Anyway I play fast paced FPSs too so I think my best option is to get another mouse just for them, but I'm worried about running out of buttons in some tactical shooters so i hoped that the Nyth was not performing 100%. But maybe for them the Nyth is enough.
+Rocket Jump Ninja Can you explain how the push-down test works and what are the ideal results?
+Pyce I've stopped testing for it ... it was just so bad on the Razer Lachesis (caused me to miss clicks constantly) that it was still a big deal. But I haven't had the problem since then, so it's no longer relevant. Basically when pushing down on the mouse, it detects movement and moves the cursor... thus every time you click, it moves off what you wanted to click! Ideal = no movement.
Thank you, but im pretty sure we know Optical is the beast lol :)
try moving your mouse left and right repeatedly and maintain on the same line for 10 secs. eventually the mouse cursor will swing up and up. happens to laser and optical mouse i own.
That happens with even the best mice. It's just censor sway, it shouldn't make a big difference in game.
yea. not a problem to low dpi users as we will lift up the mouse to "reset" it. but i wonder why this happens.
i just tried that with my kone xtd optical, didn't notice any upward movement. what mice do you have that with? seems weird.
i have this with my razer, CM, and roccat mice. on win10.
Han Siang Ng i did some more testing. at 1600 dpi mine sometimes seems to go up a bit, then down again, but always stays at the same general height without any clear trend, and i attribute that to variance in my hand movement. at 400 dpi it goes down consistently. kone xtd optical in win10 too, on a steelseries qck xxl. seems like this needs some investigation.
my evga mouse with avago laser just started going out, its been 5 years though, and accuracy seems fine
so what's the conclusion I need to know which is better razer deathadder chroma with optical or razer naga hex v2 with Lazer sensor?
great as usual
+Simone Giannini Thanks!
Can optical mouse be used on a mousepad and is it good??? Pls answer because i don’t know which one to buy for game???
AWESOME !!!
i think for it to've been a fair comparison the laser mouse should've been used on a hard mat. of for a more comprehensive evaluation one where both are used on hard surfaces would be nice
I've done that comparison now, optical still wins.
Is it in a already uploaded video, that i missed?
Quite disappointed btw, especially since the laser sensors seem to be implemented into higher end gaming mice or what are perceived as so.
Cristian Oprisanu It should be in a few of the latest mouse pad reviews... because I test the surfaces with laser and optical, and one I did against a hard pad too.
I wouldn't say high end mice are using lasers... can't think of one that I'd actually want.
Yeah, but that's not the point. Mamba, Diamondback, Ouroborus, all lazer. Naos and Avior series, top of the line, 8200 models, both laser. Cougar's top of the line series 600m, 700m ... laser. Corsair and Logitech are doing the right thing i guess going all optical and Roccat are being "fair" giving you equally priced options. It can be confusing i guess is what i'm trying to say, because of the different marketing plans that brands have, that don't necessarily reflect performance.
I need a help and explaination! I have roccat kone pure colour...It has avago optical sensor and it wont work on my steelseries qck mouse mat....its very anoying issue...
can a laser sensor mouse work well on optical mouse pad?
+oğuzhan aydn I think the question is more "can a laser sensor work well on anything?", I think they just have issues regardless of surface, but we'll see when I get a hard pad.
+oğuzhan aydn laser sensors are less picky about surfaces than optical ones. One of the reasons why travel mice use laser sensors is because they assume you won't be carrying a mouse pad with you and laser sensors track on pretty much every surface. Whether or not they track as good under ideal conditions as an optical sensor is a different story, though.
i notice some peaple look too much about how much dpi,cpi etc -- what matter is senzor and build quality , i have logitech g602 and its awesome ( work like its not wireless perfect ) and its have ,,only,, 2500 dpi . now for ANY game its more than enough for good control 1600 dpi
i dont have problems with g602 for games and i play mmo etc etc etc all kind of games ( only need is ALLWAYS u must have 2 extra bateries )
What is the name of the song that he plays in the first half of the video. Really awesome song.
Can you please get the Kone XTD Optical? I really hope so!
+Jack Armitage Roccat won't send me one, the community doesn't vote for it in the Amazon votes and I'm not paying $100+ for a mouse I wouldn't ever use. So ah ... not yet? :D
Rocket Jump Ninja Ok that's fine. Do you at least know the weight and the colour effects?
Jack Armitage Apparently it's 120g without the cable, haven't heard much about the colour effects though.
Rocket Jump Ninja Oh well. It seems too heavy for me. Thanks anyway!
Noob here, can someone clarify on what is the difference between an optical sensor and a laser sensor?
When a mouse is advertised as an optical mouse, does it mean that it uses an LED (red? blue? infrared?) for tracking the surface? When it is said to be a laser mouse, it uses a laser for tracking?
A laser sensor uses a laser to detected movement . An optical sensor either uses an (red) led or infared
+yousef amr infrared*
+yousef amr an led (red)* the red is supposed to be after led curse I used an
+yousef amr cause -_- I hate auto correct
Yeah, that's pretty much it. Laser uses a laser to emmit light. Optical uses a LED (red or IR). But that has more implications. The laser can penetrate inside the surface of the mousepad or desk. Thus, the sensor detects a more noisy image. That' the reason for more jitter in laser sensors, for example.
Guys I have a problem here ... I've got a 10euro mouse from the brand 1life and it performs perfectly on those tests you did with those mouses ... does that mean that I shouldn't buy the roccat or it's still worth the upgrade ?
Yes buy a gaming mouse. Your mouse is doing well.... Yeah but can't it handle flicks? try to move your mouse from the beginning till the end slowly and see where the curser lands in game then try to move it fast from the beginning till the end and see if it lands at the same place. If you move it fast and it points to the sky or ground that means it has a bad sensor.
+yousef amr oh and if it passes where it's supposed to be or if it doesn't get there that also means it's bad
lol i always play shooting games and aiming pro with sensors but now i think it is not my aim because i really always think that the sensor ones are really jerky 1 pixel movements are bad and it seems inaccurate and even small movements are needed to use some more force than the optical ones and usually goes off target
you said windows 4/11 ? I thought 6/11 was best as windows unevenly applies changes?
+DarKcS2 the games I play use raw input so Windows sensitivity doesn't matter. I will do some Windows sensitivity tests soon though.
+Rocket Jump Ninja (Mouse Reviews and Gaming) what's funny is I just got a new mouse - func ms2, and the software has no driver sensitivity outside of the OS setting. I tried setting 6/11 1600cpi, and 4/11 3200cpi and they felt identical in circle/line tests. My roccat I used the internal sens of -3 (which would be like 3/11 OS) and at 3200cpi it was identical to 1600 1:1 cpi.
+DarKcS2 Not exactly, anything past 6/11 is unevenly applied while anything beneath is fine, this works as a multiplier in the sense that.
5/11 is 0.75 -> every 4th count is dropped.
4/11 is 0.5 -> every 2nd count is 1 pixel.
And so on.
+Rodney Glinski sorry didn't get the notification for this one! Interesting, I'm not even sure how Roccat figure out their sensitivities ... is it over complicated or a good thing?
What mousepad are u using and what mousepad can u recommend?
+Xyon Finisher Currently using a SteelSeries QCK+, my favourite is the Razer DeathAdder Goliathus, just wish they'd make it in plain black again. Still waiting on a mousepad I'd like to recommend more. I'll have some mouse pad reviews soon, but for now, Razer Goliathus Speed Edition is the best in my opinion.
how about the Steelseries qck?
It's pretty good, I prefer the Goliathus though. I'll review the QCK soon to test it out properly.
my steelseries sensei did that when you lifted it
could you test the new fk1+
could mice sensors vary from product to product? like how the whole sillicone lottery concept with CPU, but maybe also stemming from QC/manufacturing margin of error?
+Justin Tung Yeah it's possible.
you really need to get sponsored, i would love to see all the gaming companies send you their models for comparison. The recent video on linus tech tips showed Luke being toured through the logitech compound in hype for the g900...but so far all we have are fancy machines and graphs. Nothing real like what you do here.
+Justin Tung Some companies are sending me products now, but I'll need 100,000 subscribers to really get attention, I think. Maybe a million to get Logitech and Razer.
100,000??? Well i dont see why not, youre the only one who makes these quality reviews. I have faith that good content does get noticed. Maybe you can ask some of your fans to send in mice models that you dont have so you can create more new content if acquiring them is a financial problem? Can't believe you spend your own money to buy all those...
Justin Tung Yeah the channel was expensive to set up, but it's self sustaining now... only have to buy a few mice. I have plenty to review so no need for people to send anything!
laser mouse can track vertical movements while the optical doesn't, so is this gd for laser or bad? and why it is gd or bad?
Vertical movements in this regard are bad, because the the sensor shouldn't be detecting anything at all when I'm pressing down on it. But on most mice, they're not too bad. On the Razer Lachesis... every time I clicked the left mouse button, it would detect a vertical movement and end up closing programs and stuff. Very frustrating, very bad. Kone Pure Laser ... not so bad.
How hard do you press down?
Are you using soft or hard mousepad?
you really shouldnt change windows sensitivity because of acceleration. just leave it on 6/11
Nah, every setting below 6/11 other than 5/11 tracks well, but 'enhance pointer precision' adds accel. Just turn on Raw Input ingame.
if you use raw input it doesn't matter
is it better to play with high dpi and low in game sense or vice versa ?
+Bruce George yeah high dpi low in game sens
+Rocket Jump Ninja thanks. I just got the roccat kone [+] loving it.
+Peter “kRONOSMEiSTER” Kadlečík I was wondering the same thing since most cs pros use low dpi
+Bruce George almost all of them 400-800 dpi
Could somebody explain to me how low dpi make movement more jittery. Are over 90% of pro cs go players just misinformed or stuck in the past? Dosn't make sense to me :/
me either most pro players seem to go low dpi?? I lowered mine and notice jittering heaps now. might try 1600 like rocket says
With low dpi, your mouse tracks less input and is more jittery. However, in cs:go, low dpi is prefered because it is easier to aim, even with higher in game sens. I use 800 total dpi (mouse dpi x in game sens) So 800dpi at 1 sens or 400 at 2. I will tend to use 800 and 1.
Oberlexia I use 1600 DPI in CSGO and I do just fine aim wise.
i dont really know what mouse should i get. i play dota2 a lot. any suggestion? i dont want death header. i have small hands
Logitech g303 is good for small hands and has one of the best sensors around
+comedyman112 ty mate.
what map do you do the rocket jump test on?
***** thanks
Man i buy this Roccat kone pure laser last year and the sensor bug everytime when you try to aim sometimes it does involuntary movements like crazy and sometimes you need to unplug and plugin again because it just get só much crazy that you cant move it properly anymore. I never experienced that before with any mouse i bought since Microsoft's intellimouse. It was really the worst mouse ive ever had.
how on earth can you play with the intelli? the negative acceleration is insane on that thing
My laser mouse doesn't do anything if I just push on it.
Seriously, to me it's a stupid fight between laser and optical, because it depends of the mouse and of the player, just try both.
i have roccat Kone Pure optical sensor sometime getting lag
so know i have roccat tyon good not best for me .. something i hate it of roccat the software so bad
what is your game in video ?
+Moussa Alonazi When does Kone lag?
Game is Quake Live in video.
+Rocket Jump Ninja (Mouse Reviews and Gaming) yes it's lag after 1 year this mouse so good but know upgrade to tyon .. i'm thinking about kova
+Moussa Alonazi Tyon big heavy mouse, Kova strange mouse.
+ Rocket Jump Ninja (Mouse Reviews and Gaming) i know big heavy mouse good sensor but very Sweat in my hand
you should mention that input lag into future reviews, i found that my fk 1 had alot more sensor lag than my g303, bought the fk1 last year after the button lag reduction.
+Reasure I generally do when I find it, it's just hard to test.
+Rocket Jump Ninja it's hard to give a numerical value I guess, easier when comparing mice I suppose
+Reasure Yeah I have to rely on whether or not it stops me from playing well instead. Razer Mamba TE for example, just can't aim properly. Can aim DeathAdder Chroma quite well though.
love the razer DA sensor, would use it but the shape actually causes pain in my hands and wrist after a while haha
+Reasure That's fair enough, I don't use it because I can aim better with smaller mice.
I just bought the Razer Mamba TE with the 5G laser sensor is there much difference between that and a optical sensor while playing FPS games ? I would like to know how accurate the 5g laser sensor is compared to a optical one in % if anyone could tell me thanks
Im not like the whole complete albert enstien of mouses but what i think. Having a high quality sensor like 5g will detect a lot more pixels than something
Question: Is it better to use low DPI and higher in-game sensitivity or higher DPI and lower in-game sensitivity? If either can someone please tell me why? Thanks a bunch to anyone who can enlighten me.
Low DPI will make the movement jittery. High DPI apparently adds some delay.
Happy medium is use 1600 DPI and adjust your sensitivity in game to suit you.
+ᅚᅚ,ᅚᅚ, it depends. the most common intervals among pros are 400,500,800 and 1600
ᅚᅚ, ᅚᅚ,
It's also a lot to do with the fact that previously mice were very inaccurate at high DPI
i dont think that high sensitivity is gd for gaming especially its sometimes irritating while using snipers.(n.b-cs players usually play games with 400-800dpi only)
Do people still play Quake?
how the hell is moving all over the place a good thing?!
Would there ever be a 500hz vs1000hz polling rate video?
+Kmah smith The only time I've noticed a difference is when a mouse malfunctions at one or the other, forcing us to use a different one. We can look into it, but as far as I'm aware, it doesn't really matter.
I was wondering though, because people say that 1000hz is "less stable" than 500hz.
Kmah smith I haven't noticed any instability, do they say how we can test it?
People who say x Hz is better be it 500hz basically say that the sensor feels more "predictable" in 500hz. Their reasoning is that they feel like their are more consistent as the mouse does not always run at 1000hz. I have no idea how people test it and the people on the forms do not state how they test if the mouse is running at x Hz at a certain time in game. Advocates of 500hz also said that if the mouse is running at 500hz have a higher perfect control speed(wut, makes no sense to me). People who say that 1000hz is better bring the math reasoning and basicly say it's faster and feels more responsive. 1000hz from what i know is better for users using strobing(light boost), ulmb or g sync as there is less micro stutters/any visible to the eye. Mentioned in this article form blur busters www.blurbusters.com/mouse-125hz-vs-500hz-vs-1000hz/
G sync, ulmb and/or light boost seem to increase the visibility of the micro stutter at lower mouse polling rates.
Kmah smith I'll have to check into it more, there's way too much misinformation out there, and I've come across a lot of "mouse elite" types that state their opinions as fact, even though they have nothing to support them.
So we'll see I guess! I'll add it to the list of things to check.
Well I've had a lot of optical and laser gaming mice and there really isn't much of a difference. You can have optical sensors better then laser sensors and vice versa. The only thing I can say for sure is that laser sensors in Razer mice have lag. Some worse then other but it's there. Since it's not much of an issue coz if you play 60FPS you have at least 16.6ms of lag anyway, but it's a thing to consider.
+H8ts Wouldn't that add to it though? 16.6ms + sensor lag = even more lag. I find sensor lag definitely makes an obvious difference. It's pretty bad.
try making some keyboard reviews i would like to see that
+banditmc12 I already have, search the channel!
guys ik this question might be dumb but im playing cs go with 5 year old mouse or more x7 antivibrate mouse and its not bad but im interested are new mouses worth to buy? are they much better ?
+Gujiko Khintibidze Yes
ty for answer, im considering g303, but ur sensor rattle issue scared me :D
Gujiko Khintibidze Haha just get the Roccat Kone Pure Military (Naval Storm) version... apparently it has very little chance of rattle. No guarantee though... still, not that big a problem!
I have been researching mice last days and trying to figure out which one to buy :D, my favourites are g303 and ss rival 100. what would u do in my place im using 400 dpi palm grip
Gujiko Khintibidze Rival 100 can't do 400 DPI, it can do 500 though. Personally I prefer the G303, which can do 400 DPI too. Depends what shape you like though.
my Steelseries Sensei Fnatc edition has a great laser sensor and better than my Ec1B 3360
What's that for a game?
I don't like optical mice because I don't like to use a mouse pad. I use my mouse straight on the table and I have a table with a shiny fake wood surface that is super smooth. As a result I have always found optical have tracking issues on it while laser mice work just fine on it.
Currently using a G5 mouse (at 1000 DPI) but it is getting old and I need to find a replacement. Logitech does not seem to make laser gaming mice any more and even if I went optical, all their new mice have so many useless buttons in annoying places.
But this has put me in quite the pickle because watching this video I can see that optical gaming mice do have certain advantages but then I need a mousepad :(
Just buy a mousepad, man. I recommend the SteelSeries QcK mousepad. Very cheap but also a very good pad. I think I got mine for $7.99 (USD).
You presume the reason I don't have mousepad is because of money - money not the issue. I just don't like mousepads as I prefer the texture and comfort of my table surface over the texture of mouse pads.
Ah. Hmmm. Not sure what to tell you then. Although, maybe you could just try getting used to a mousepad (probably my best recommendation at this point tbh). Maybe just go with a cheaper one and see if you can get used to it. Unless, of course, you've already tried.
I've used mousepads but have moved away from them once laser came out as it is just so much more comfortable :)
Interesting. I don't think I have ever met someone (seen, yes, but not actually talked with and/or met) who really prefers the surface of their desk over a mousepad. I suppose you'll just have to hope that the market doesn't go all optical. Although, for laser mice, I recommend looking up Zy's videos on Roccat mice (assuming, of course, that you haven't already done this). Quite a few of the Roccat mice actually have quite good laser sensors.
What is your first gaming mouse you ever had?
+Klexxy can the Microsoft Intelliexplorer be counted? Then the Intelliexplorer 3.0, then 4.0, then I think I got a Razer Copperhead.
+Rocket Jump Ninja (Mouse Reviews and Gaming) yes it. can be counted
+Klexxy ok cool, then MS Intelliexplorer 1.0 was my first, then 3, then 4, etc.
+Rocket Jump Ninja (Mouse Reviews and Gaming) but did you get it as a "gaming " mouse or was it just what you happened to get with a new computer build or something? For me, I didn't know it was a "gaming" mouse when I got it, but that's when I started playing PC games, so there's that...
Jamie Clark I got it as a gaming mouse, needed to upgrade from ball mouse.
Their is acceleration even if you could not feel it, acceleration is inherent to 9500, 9800 architecture.
I visited Logitech last year and talked to Francois Morier, here is a thread about it have a look at the tracking speed machine with the disked with different surfaces this machine was made and tested and verified by logitech and external compagnies Francois told me how much approximatly % wise the difference would be. But its very depending on mouse surface.
A test with your hand is not a good test at all to compare sensors. I would recommend to read the thread though:www.overclock.net/t/1526139/our-visit-to-the-logitech-daniel-borel-innovation-center-by-ino-and-ctrlaltel1te
as well this thread is a very good read www.overclock.net/t/1251156/an-overview-of-mouse-technology
And for testing purposes I would recommend www.overclock.net/t/1535687/mousetester-software this program.
+Rik Akkerman what is the acceleration being talked about then? Because the test I did had nothing to do with what I felt, it was about how far the mouse travelled VS how far the aim moved on screen.
+Rocket Jump Ninja (Mouse Reviews and Gaming) I have not watched the video I just thought the video was about it seeing the titled said laser vs optical.. . hehe
+Rik Akkerman hahaha that's cheating! Nice guess though, but I talked about much more than that ;)
I promise you I'll will watch the entire video later when I am not so tired ;) For now just the thumbs up! to help you channel out
+Rik Akkerman sounds good, many thanks as always!
Laser sensors become nearly perfect when paired with some hard pads or soft artisan mouse pad
+xBlutchx What about the delay we usually find?
ive personally never noticed anything significant, what i will say is that the optical mice i have used, were alot more ''raw'' and felt better overall, however the shape of the sensei is too good for me to give up. The rapoo looked like a perfect replacement for me until i heard of the sensor lag and left right click lag.
+xBlutchx Yeah that V900 by Rapoo was the worst I've ever used for sensor lag.
ye i was talking about the v300 though as replacement that shape looks like sex. but let us know if they ever update the software with LOD and delay and all that jazz
xBlutchx I'm waiting to see if this V310 comes out www.rocketjumpninja.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/RapooV310-520x245.jpg
Do you have rawinput on?If you dont put it on.If there is no option in quake then im sorry and if you do.Im saying this bcs you sed you use 4/11 Windows sens,it doesnt mattre if you have rawinput ot.And im not a quake players so sry im a cs player form 2002.
+GreenSharked Yes, Quake uses raw input.
Rocket Jump Ninja But do you use it.
GreenSharked ... yes?
ok
Anyone here with a G400s? Am i having the only one having a liftoff problem?
if the deathadder is ment to be a good optical mouse im sticking with laser ive had 2 deathadders and both have felt stuttery on certain games plug in my kone pure laser and its smooth as butter :S
+Nuclear Harry Sounds like something else is wrong. You can see in the DeathAdder Chroma comparison videos that the sensor is smooth (the old versions were smooth too). I haven't seen any quality laser sensors yet, although the Roccat Kone Pure laser is the best I've tested.
i tried a 2014 one on win 8.1 back then and it stutterd on certain titles and tried a chroma one a few months back and it had the same issues to the extent i thought it was my game but soon as i plugged my kone pure in it was silky smooth now on win 10 might try the kone pure optical but i really didnt like the deathadder build quality was pretty cheap aswell
+Nuclear Harry Yeah that's something I love about the Kone Pures, feel so good, great build. But sensor wise, I'd definitely go for the DeathAdder Chroma instead of the Kone Pure Laser. What DPI do you use?
i use 1800dpi then mess with in game sensitivity to get them all the same. its weird because i have large hands and kone pure is quite a small mouse but its so comfy for me i dont see myself changing anytime soon but i do want to try out the rog gladius to see if thats any good
Nuclear Harry I've heard the Gladius has issues, so I'm not too keen on it. Can't remember what the issues were... something was bad though.
The music was a little to loud for my liking
I'm not gonna buy a mouse unless it's below 85 grams.
Even through you said nothing over 85 grams you should get a Rival 110 it's only 5 grams more and it's optical and has 75000 dpi and the sensor is great and where I brought it was at Wal-Mart for 22$
to be honest if you play with an actual mouse you will do fine , WTF Man you are playing the same game for 20 years
aweful optic Sensor... bro are u dunk? it's the pwm3310 which is the best on the market but nevermind
+SeacryBlastsAloT No idea what you're talking about, can you link me to that point in the video? Thinking you might have misheard me.
+Rocket Jump Ninja
0:10
i understood:
this being an aweful optic Sensor
btw i did not meant to be rude sry
+SeacryBlastsAloT It's ok!
Here's the script of what I said:
"Ok great sensor debate 3, laser vs optical, so I have the Roccat Kone Pures here, and I think the sensor's one generation off, this being an R3 Laser sensor, and this being an R4 Optic sensor."
So I guess you understood "R4" as "awful", so that makes sense, it does sound a bit similar.
That line is apparently wrong though, someone told me that the R3 Laser and R4 Optic are actually the same generation. Haven't actually looked it up since, not that important. Anyway, yes, great sensor!
+Rocket Jump Ninja omg Sorry for my bad english $killz. I think it's stupid that roccat calls their sensors R3 and R4 cause nobody knows which sensor it really is. I personally have the laser mouse and it has the best material quality of all mice out there but the laser sucks. luckily you helped me to find my perfect mouse. your vids are awesome. roccal military here i come.
+SeacryBlastsAloT Haha it's ok!
And you're right, it is weird when they say R3 and R4... they make it harder to find out the real information that we want. I agree on the materials of the laser version, they feel so good. The Kone Military is also good, but the top is hard plastic instead. Everything else feels the same. Great mouse. Just don't get the Desert one, it has a higher chance of a rattling sensor or lens. I've heard the Naval Storm is the one to get... haven't tried it yet though. Hope you get a good one!
this didnt help me man,-.-
I have a razer mamaba TE and its sensor sucks ass