Do We Need Christianity To Save The West? David Starkey
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- Special thanks to The European Conservative: / @theeuropeanconservative
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Your impartial views are riveting.
Yes the West needs Christianity ✝️🫒🍄🌿🔥💨❤️✌️
If you aren't racist you are leftist.
Starkey lost me at Quaker. He's a minion.
@@user-lh9ei6he1h They can make up their minds whether Christianity is needed or not when they are either Muslim or trans human (embedded with technology). The learning curve is not easy for some people.
I do not visit church on a regular basis but I am a Christian. The UK is a Christian country and we must preserve this at all costs.
How can you preserve something that you're not involved with very much?
@@BungleZippie Good point. The disciples had no churches either. They followed Christ and were Christian’s.
Going to Sunday School as a child in the 1950s taught me morals, kindness, honour your father and mother and so many other lessons which made for a cohesive society. Whether you adhere to a religion or not, we all need God in our lives.
👍
In the words of Chesterton, we can't get rid of him but we can opt for a very shoddy version of him.
As an atheist, I would rather live in a Christian country than an Islamic one.
I am a dyed in the wool Atheist, to me all religions are man made and a force for evil, but I can get along in a Christian country such as mine?! (GB) I am 78 with certain health issues, so the long term future will not be mine, in other words , I will not exist, so that is a comfort!
Agnostic and I agree completely.
As long as it isn't Catholic.
@@lervish1966 Catholic religion is in much better shape than the C of E.
Catholicism held out against Usury far longer than Protestants. Usury is the financial and banking system that is ultimately destroying the West
Monotheism in all its forms should be transcended
Dr. Starkey gives yet another tour de force of historical/ political/intellectual debate that's breathtaking. Thanks.
Fantastic video. Far better than anything you would get on the BBC.
I agree; the level of scholastic rigour here is much to be commended together with the helpful references to the works cited.
It makes me sick every time I hear about the damage Blair did to this country.
Especially when people praise that psychopath.
I know what must of been going around in the brain of a certain Austrian in Berlin in 1945, before the bullitt did = " What go`s around, COMES AROUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Thatcher also irreparably damaged our country. I can't believe they scuttled the coal mines so that they could never be reopened. Our utilities are now all owned by foreign interests, and we pay through the nose accordingly. And every subsequent prime minister has worked contrary to the interests of our respective countries. I cannot call myself British after Blair because any fool that falls off a boat is now British, and devolution essentially ended the union, apart from in ways where English money is demanded. I am English, and I shall mind my own concerns until people understand that pitchforks only cost £15.99 on Amazon.
Starky is a pompous rambler who talks over and through people. He idolises the idea of parliamentary sovereignty as if it was a natural state of the English. It wasn't and isn't. It has changed throughout and evolved fir better and for worse.
The Left is universally a hysterical mob led by a small band of psychopaths.
The disastrous Blair's job will be completed by Starmer if the British People does'nt wake up.
@@umbertotoni3021 I live the way that my comments are removed, but I still get updates to the thread. That's a nice touch.
Absolute treat listening to two educated, brilliant men discussing important issues! 👏🏽 thank you!
I'm fairly well educated but when I listen to Starkey I always feel as thick as a brick. It's the only thing I don't like about him lol.
I'm just listening to hymns in lieu of going to church. Beautiful!! I'd love to hear "I Vow to Thee my Country" at the next protest! We need to claim our culture and our way of life - it's only God that can help us now.
@@sooky2253 You're a hypocritical god botherer who should be kept away from children.
Why don't you go to church!
Amen, and as for Handle's Messiah, that is not toward the king, but toward the King of kings. This man has misrepresented so much, and left out so much
Agreed. Next step: go to church. Every Sunday. And Holy Day.
Maybe is something was actually happening in Church you would be drawn to go there. In fact you can have both hymns (plaslms) and liturgy together: try the orthodox church closer to you.
Kyrie eleison ☦️
A fascinating conversation indeed.
David Starkey’s closing words reflect a great deal of my views of Britain, particularly England (we all have our choice areas). My younger brother and I were brought up by wonderful parents. My father had seen much destruction in WWII (as a Sherman tank commander) and postwar, encouraged appreciation of our wonderful history. While other children were kicking a ball or whatever, we were looking at Neolithic sites on the moors around Bolton; visiting wonderful castles; exploring architectural gems of cities and towns; amassing collections of artefacts, books and pamphlets - all to add ‘grist to the mill’.
I remember well the (one of many) depressing advent of ‘new labour’ and the reality of the devaluing of Britishness.
I doubt the current lot in ‘government’ will return compatriots values - but at my age, one can only hope!
👍🇬🇧👍🇮🇱👍🇬🇧👍🇮🇱👍🇬🇧👍
I know a few English people who left England to live in another country - successful people... Well to do. Modesty does not allow me to use the words they use when talking about what happened to England over the last few years and about what England has become. But it has to do with the digestive process and thereafter. God bless England and may it experience a revival.
I am a Christian and VERY PROUD to be one. I would rather live in a country where I can legally pray in public, where my cross necklace and talk publicly about my love of my God than anywhere else. Sadly, even "Christian" countries are outlawing this. We have a duty to turn this around. Christian values are the very foundation of western society. I'd rather live in a Christian country that isn't ashamed of being Christian!
If you are proud of your Christianity I will pray for your lost soul.
I’m guessing you misspoke your intention.
With fundamental morals and isn't apologetic about any of it! THE WEST CANNOT SURVIVE IN AN ABSENCE OF RELIGION. What is painfully obvious to Christians but NOT to the non-Christians, is that they have substituted Christianity for woke, faux environmentalist pagan garbage!
They built societies, and Christian values are one set, on two tablets, The Ten Commandments. Starkey misleads people, leaves out so much, and disparages Christianity. These humanists are destroying society, and here with smooth talk
But there is no evidence for a deity.
I agree. I have heard of two men being arrested in Australia for reading the Bible, one jailed for 28 days. Apparently the mere sight of a Bible is now hate speech towards the LGBT community. However parents are not impressed with the LGBT intrusion into schools. So fee charging Roman Catholic and other Christian schools are becoming popular, 30% and rising parents use them.
What a mischievous, funny and passionate intellectual Dr Starkey is! The knowledge that pours forth is incredible. I loved the touching moment when he admits to not knowing something and asks Harrison to educate him. I'd have loved him as my teacher at school.
David Starkey needs to write “The Blairite Revolution”
absolutely first rate. The breadth of knowledge and argument on display is astounding.
A delight to listen to a discussion between two intelligent individuals.
As a child my heart was broken by the government and local councils and schools who told schools to stop prayers and hymns on morning assembly back in the 70’s / 80’s, because Britain had an influx of migrants, and was deemed unfair to force our religion on them. Prayers and hymns were the highlight of my day and our headmaster himself played a guitar for the hymns. Since that time Christian worship has been in decline and in the 1990’s seem to disappear completely from my circle. I spent the next 35 ish years in search of something and have dabbled in world religions ( because sceptique Islam) before finally re-finding my home and heart in Christianity. I am not prepared to live like Christian’s in Iran where they worship in secret underground churches. Stop this madness now and the wokeness will immediately disappear.
In Australia as late as 1980 we read from the abridged children's Bible every morning, my favourite part of the day. We could do that because back then everyone was of European or Aboriginal heritage and everyone was at least nominally Christian. All gone now.
In the 1960's when I was at secondary school, the roman Catholic students were made to wait outside the hall instead of attending assembly. I hope things have moved on by now.
@@josiehoyle9314 I had to read that twice because it was so alien to what I knew. In the state where I grew up there is correspondence dating to the 1860s stressing that religious instruction should be equally reflective of Roman Catholic teachings as well as Protestant. What the forefathers never imagined was a time when large numbers of non Christians would live in the country.
@@josiehoyle9314 Was that not by the choice of the RC students / parents? I think that was the case in my school; as per anyone who was not ‘Protestant’ Christian.
@@ulmusminor1111I remember my secondary school of the 1950s when a couple of Jewish people didnt attend morning assembly in which hyns would be sung but never knew any catholics attending that school!
I was born and raised in Dundee,I voted against Devolution,I am proud of that
And I'm a born and raised Aberdonian, and I voted against it too.
Me too - from the Isle of Gigha and voted no to devolution.
Fife here. Also voted against. The whole third-rate-nothing should be abolished immediately
And i am proud of you for saying that. I was in the forces 1959 to 1963. The one thing I am sure of is that when all people of these Islands are together we are definitely among the very best. I didn't want to brag and say we were the best but Probably. I am over eighty and it brakes my heart to see what our beautiful countries has come to. Funny enough some years ago my partner bought a foot of ground up in Scotland for me and a supposed Lairdship, which seems odd but in reality 5000 people owning a foot of ground in the same place, means it would be hard to build on. Much too beautiful to be ploughed up.
Giving people a bit more say regarding their own communities is a reasonable act.
It falls over when strutting little peacocks like Sturgeon and SNP turn it into their own little empire.
Till she got caught with her fingers in the till, SNPland was heading for another North Korea.
Yes we need Christianity
We need racism.
The Message of the Crucifixion
1. For learning purposes, let us consider the crucifixion again. ²I did not dwell on it before because of the fearful connotations you may associate with it. ³The only emphasis laid upon it so far has been that it was not a form of punishment. ⁴Nothing, however, can be explained in negative terms only. ⁵There is a positive interpretation of the crucifixion that is wholly devoid of fear, and therefore wholly benign in what it teaches, if it is properly understood.
2. The crucifixion is nothing more than an extreme example. ²Its value, like the value of any teaching device, lies solely in the kind of learning it facilitates. ³It can be, and has been, misunderstood. ⁴This is only because the fearful are apt to perceive fearfully. ⁵I have already told you that you can always call on me to share my decision, and thus make it stronger. ⁶I have also told you that the crucifixion was the last useless journey the Sonship need take, and that it represents release from fear to anyone who understands it. ⁷While I emphasized only the resurrection before, the purpose of the crucifixion and how it actually led to the resurrection was not clarified then. ⁸Nevertheless, it has a definite contribution to make to your own life, and if you will consider it without fear, it will help you understand your own role as a teacher.
3. You have probably reacted for years as if you were being crucified. ²This is a marked tendency of the separated, who always refuse to consider what they have done to themselves. ³Projection means anger, anger fosters assault, and assault promotes fear. ⁴The real meaning of the crucifixion lies in the _apparent_ intensity of the assault of some of the Sons of God upon another. ⁵This, of course, is impossible, and must be fully understood _as_ impossible. ⁶Otherwise, I cannot serve as a model for learning.
4. Assault can ultimately be made only on the body. ²There is little doubt that one body can assault another, and can even destroy it. ³Yet if destruction itself is impossible, anything that is destructible cannot be real. ⁴Its destruction, therefore, does not justify anger. ⁵To the extent to which you believe that it does, you are accepting false premises and teaching them to others. ⁶The message the crucifixion was intended to teach was that it is not necessary to perceive any form of assault in persecution, because you cannot _be_ persecuted. ⁷If you respond with anger, you must be equating yourself with the destructible, and are therefore regarding yourself insanely.
5. I have made it perfectly clear that I am like you and you are like me, but our fundamental equality can be demonstrated only through joint decision. ²You are free to perceive yourself as persecuted if you choose. ³When you do choose to react that way, however, you might remember that I was persecuted as the world judges, and did not share this evaluation for myself. ⁴And because I did not share it, I did not strengthen it. ⁵I therefore offered a different interpretation of attack, and one which I want to share with you. ⁶If you will believe it, you will help me teach it.
6. As I have said before, “As you teach so shall you learn.” ²If you react as if you are persecuted, you are teaching persecution. ³This is not a lesson a Son of God should want to teach if he is to realize his own salvation. ⁴Rather, teach your own perfect immunity, which is the truth in you, and realize that it cannot _be_ assailed. ⁵Do not try to protect it yourself, or you are believing that it is assailable. ⁶You are not asked to be crucified, which was part of my own teaching contribution. ⁷You are merely asked to follow my example in the face of much less extreme temptations to misperceive, and not to accept them as false justifications for anger. ⁸There can be no justification for the unjustifiable. ⁹Do not believe there is, and do not teach that there is. ¹⁰Remember always that what you believe you will teach. ¹¹Believe with me, and we will become equal as teachers.
I am sorry when my brothers do not share my decision to hear only one Voice, because it weakens them as teachers and as learners. Yet I know they cannot really betray themselves or me, and that it is still on them that I must build my church. There is no choice in this, because only you can be the foundation of God's church. A church is where an altar is, and the presence of the altar is what makes the church holy. A church that does not inspire love has a hidden altar that is not serving the purpose for which God intended it. I must found His church on you, because those who accept me as a model are literally my disciples. Disciples are followers, and if the model they follow has chosen to save them pain in all respects, they are unwise not to follow him.
I elected, for your sake and mine, to demonstrate that the most outrageous assault, as judged by the ego, does not matter. As the world judges these things, but not as God knows them, I was betrayed, abandoned, beaten, torn, and finally killed. It was clear that this was only because of the projection of others onto me, since I had not harmed anyone and had healed many.
We are still equal as learners, although we do not need to have equal experiences. The Holy Spirit is glad when you can learn from mine, and be reawakened by them. That is their only purpose, and that is the only way in which I can be perceived as the way, the truth and the life. When you hear only one Voice you are never called on to sacrifice. On the contrary, by being able to hear the Holy Spirit in others you can learn from their experiences, and can gain from them without experiencing them directly yourself. That is because the Holy Spirit is one, and anyone who listens is inevitably led to demonstrate His way for all.
You are not persecuted, nor was I. You are not asked to repeat my experiences because the Holy Spirit, Whom we share, makes this unnecessary. To use my experiences constructively, however, you must still follow my example in how to perceive them. My brothers and yours are constantly engaged in justifying the unjustifiable. My one lesson, which I must teach as I learned it, is that no perception that is out of accord with the judgment of the Holy Spirit can be justified. I undertook to show this was true in an extreme case, merely because it would serve as a good teaching aid to those whose temptation to give in to anger and assault would not be so extreme. I will with God that none of His Sons should suffer.
The crucifixion cannot be shared because it is the symbol of projection, but the resurrection is the symbol of sharing because the reawakening of every Son of God is necessary to enable the Sonship to know its wholeness. Only this is knowledge.
The message of the crucifixion is perfectly clear:
_"Teach only love, for that is what you are."_
If you interpret the crucifixion in any other way, you are using it as a weapon for assault rather than as the call for peace for which it was intended. The Apostles often misunderstood it, and for the same reason that anyone misunderstands it. Their own imperfect love made them vulnerable to projection, and out of their own fear they spoke of the "wrath of God" as His retaliatory weapon. Nor could they speak of the crucifixion entirely without anger, because their sense of guilt had made them angry.
These are some of the examples of upside-down thinking in the New Testament, although its gospel is really only the message of love. If the Apostles had not felt guilty, they never could have quoted me as saying, "I come not to bring peace but a sword." This is clearly the opposite of everything I taught. Nor could they have described my reactions to Judas as they did, if they had really understood me. I could not have said, "Betrayest thou the Son of Man with a kiss?" unless I believed in betrayal. The whole message of the crucifixion was simply that I did not. The "punishment" I was said to have called forth upon Judas was a similar mistake. Judas was my brother and a Son of God, as much a part of the Sonship as myself. Was it likely that I would condemn him when I was ready to demonstrate that condemnation is impossible?
A Course In Miracles (1975)
Author: _Jesus Christ_
@@AlexanderLittlebearsWell plenty of racism amongst non whites, balance would be a fine thing.
@@AlexanderLittlebears ?? Non sequitur... what are you driving at?
@@mikehutton3937 The West is the civilization of the European races, so we need to preserve them to preserve the West.
David Starkey is a historian, the way he explains historical events is very well articulated.
The moral compass went out the window in the 1960s with the sexual revolution,I genie is out the bottle and is not going back in
Germany managed to stuff that genie back in the bottle in the 30s, it can be done but not as long as were debt slaves to private banks
Very, very well said, and it has been down hill ever since
Congratulations for winning WW2.
@@AlexanderLittlebears Thank you, and as a child of the general, just after the war, I am sure that that generation would also like to thank you
Indeed. The wages of sin is death and all that...
"Is it not worrying in itself that European Christianity is now barely able to keep Europe Christian? If we lose sight of this, the idea of Europe could become a minority interest in its own continent" Viktor Orban
Let´s just think, why does nobody want to live in Orban´s Hungary if it´s such a great place?
@@Minimmalmythicist You're not thinking. Orban's Hungary is a great place and his party has won 4 landslide elections.
@@Minimmalmythicist Have you visited? I have... many times. I strongly suggest you do visit there and you will not see the sorry results or rather "filth"" of the most progressive nations, states, republics or whatever they call some of those places. Would you like to live as a free man making the decisions for yourself? Or would you like to live as a well fed slave or well fed animal in a Zoo?
@@annoyingchannel8812 because the elections are rigged in his favour
Thumbs up from this proud Hungarian Australian who wants to repatriate!
I am deeply grateful for what Jesus did for me 2,000 years ago. As I read and believe His Word, He reforms my life.
Talking to David must be quite daunting. He's like a victorian schoolmaster :) amusing to watch however
If you can watch his early videos teaching kids from very non posh schools. He was a great teacher and the kids lapped it up the kids always and ever will do with a great and fascinating teacher who has something original to say.
Yes. Follow the message of Christ and get back to basics, love one another 🇬🇧
Thank you for such a brilliant and engaging conversation with David Starkey. He carries a whole encyclopedia inside his head! I don't know how he does it!
What a treat! More please!
Christianity is not the Foundation of our Liberal Government, but it is the foundation of the morality of people who have a Liberal Government.
(Liberal as in Liberty not any party moniker)
Liberalism is the problem. Liberalism is like an acid on our civilisation.
We have lost ground post French Revolution.
Our demographic replacement is happening under Liberalism.
The Enlightenment was by and large a rebellion against Christianity. You should read people like Voltaire and Diderot.
I don't need religion to tell me how to behave.
@@davepugh2519 so if your conscience tells you that it's ok to rob a bank, you'd do it?
@@davepugh2519 do you follow the law or do you only follow the law when it’s beneficial to you?
Without a religion to unite behind we will constantly be at a disadvantage. When it comes to islam.
Islam was beaten by pseudo Christianity Romanism which Starkey is not brave enough to state, in the middle ages
@@dougaldouglas8842 the point I was stating is that religion within the ethnic people's of Europe is basically a non entity. Even the churches have perverted historical religions, where as islam whether it is Sunny or Shia moderate or conservative has gone unchanged and either side unites a large population of the Muslim world under it's umbrella. The Christian world does not because in our society religion plays a much smaller role in our day to day lives.
Vacuums get filled. Keep your churches and pubs full.
Both religions and any religion is a waste of time.
@@douglaskay9959 As a woman I know which I'd choose.
Wise words again from Dr. Starkey particularly to us who are a part of the growing Patriots movement.
We need Christianity to save the world, there is so much hatred from all walks of life.
Starkey..is..just a historical verbal marvel. He cannot be surpassed because he knows history and he knows and speaks the facts...facts are the basis of any discussion and firm argument..but one cannot deny FACT
What a great conversation, thank you.
David Starkey is an absolute intellectual gem.
We don't just need 'Christianity' we need Christ.
If so why is he hiding?
@@timfallon8226 so you can use your free will
@@timfallon8226if you were saved you would see with spiritual eyes he ain’t hiding.
Dr Starkey’s views on Christianity through the lens of atheism are not his strongest suit.
🎯 Key points for quick navigation:
00:21 *🤔 Dr. David Starkey discusses the need for a restoration in modern conservative philosophy, emphasizing a return to traditional paths and questioning the feasibility of such a restoration without Christian faith.*
01:44 *🎭 Stark contrasts Tony Blair's political reforms with those of Oliver Cromwell, arguing that Blair's administration, while less violent, similarly disrupted the British parliamentary system.*
02:22 *🚫 Describes Blair as anti-populist despite his popular image, asserting that Blair's policies diminished democratic practices by shifting power away from Parliament and the public.*
03:05 *🏴 Discusses the impact of devolution under Blair, highlighting the change as a rupture in the union between England and Scotland established since 1707.*
06:04 *⚖️ Critiques the incorporation of the European Convention on Human Rights into UK law under Blair, arguing it undermines national sovereignty and complicates immigration control.*
07:12 *🏦 Comments on the decision to make the Bank of England independent, noting it as an example of power being transferred from the government to non-elected expert committees.*
09:11 *⚖️ Notes the creation of the UK Supreme Court as problematic for parliamentary sovereignty, arguing it introduces an American-style separation of powers which is incompatible with British constitutional tradition.*
14:14 *📜 Explores the historical concept of parliamentary sovereignty and representation in Britain, tracing its origins back to Magna Carta and its impact on the public's connection to the law.*
17:11 *🇬🇧 Stark criticizes the outcomes of devolution and other reforms under Blair, labeling them as a factor in the current dysfunction of the British government, particularly in terms of nationalism and governance.*
19:01 *😞 Expresses a deep disillusionment with current politics, asserting that widespread disenchantment is a direct result of Blair's policies, which have made votes seem irrelevant.*
22:13 *📚 Starky challenges the view that Western values primarily originate from Christianity, arguing that historical church governance often supported absolute monarchy contrary to democratic values.*
25:18 *🗣️ Starkey argues that the existence of political parties in 18th and 19th century England was based on the understanding that good people can have differing opinions, emphasizing the importance of political debate.*
26:14 *👑 Describes the English model of governance, "dominium politicum," as a system favoring debate and representation, contrasted with the French model of absolute monarchy, "dominium regale."*
27:09 *🏛️ Draws parallels between Roman Republic governance and modern political structures, highlighting the Roman emphasis on elected representatives and debate-driven justice.*
28:19 *⚖️ Challenges the notion that Christian values directly inform political structures, arguing that political values and processes are distinct from religious beliefs.*
30:14 *📜 Notes the significant influence of classical history and rationalist thought on America's founding fathers, who were steeped in Enlightenment ideals rather than orthodox Christianity.*
32:15 *⛓️ Discusses the historical compatibility of Christianity with slavery, indicating that traditional Christian texts have often been interpreted to support existing social hierarchies rather than challenge them.*
34:03 *🔄 Suggests that the modern social justice movement, or "woke" culture, can be seen as a Christian heresy, reversing traditional power hierarchies in line with Biblical narratives like the Magnificat.*
36:10 *🎓 Attributes the unique stability of British parliamentary democracy to the classical education embraced by the English ruling class from the 16th century onward.*
39:06 *🏫 Explains the role of grammar schools in promoting social mobility in England, emphasizing their foundation on liberal arts education aimed at creating "free" individuals.*
44:07 *🎼 Interprets Handel's oratorios as patriotic anthems for the British Empire, reflecting the intertwining of religious and national identity through musical and ceremonial expressions.*
48:32 *🤷 Starkey critiques the view that sees religion as central to politics, illustrating it through historical parody where gratitude to a king for abolishing taxes overshadows religious piety.*
49:12 *🎭 Highlights the mocking of religious poverty and self-denial in English political thought, suggesting a secular, materialistic approach was prevalent.*
50:21 *⚖️ Discusses the suppression of religious reform and philosophical revolutions in 14th century Oxford, leading to intellectual stagnation, influenced by the state's desire for Christian uniformity.*
52:08 *🔥 Points to the historical introduction of execution by burning as a primary Christian intervention in English politics, emphasizing the danger to those considered heretics.*
52:37 *🏛️ Explains "Erastianism" as the doctrine where the state controls religion, which he claims moderated religious fanaticism in England by making the monarch the head of the church.*
54:57 *⚔️ Reflects on the historical conflict between common lawyers and the clerical elite in England, noting the common lawyers' crucial role in driving the Reformation.*
56:58 *❓ Challenges the idea that Christianity, an otherworldly religion, can effectively guide politics which is inherently worldly and temporal.*
01:01:20 *🕊️ Questions the feasibility of a religious revival in politics, expressing skepticism about the impact of Christianity on modern political structures.*
01:04:44 *💬 Advocates for a values-laden political framework, suggesting a focus on historical transcendence rather than religious dogma, reflecting on T.S. Eliot's influence and historical consciousness.*
Made with HARPA AI
Being better than Islam is not an achievement it is the bare minimum!
Well it is an achievement nonetheless. We can only judge things by comparison after all and those being the two world dominant religions what to compare it to?
Oh, it is!
Better then Islam! Christians are to blame themselves for loosing their own religion. Islam is not your enemy.
it's quite sad and sickening at the same time that failed immigration policies enforced by the radical left in general global scale has brought this day of relying on choosing one of the man made infantile fantasies, this is so sad 😢
@@arjunratnadev The thing I cannot forgive is the way they've endangered women and children. Of course, many immigrants are not criminals. But there is a sizeable minority that is.
It is so good to hear intelligent discussion but I wish David would let the other chap speak rather than patronising him, all be it kindly. He is graciously wise chap. A rare virtue on UA-cam!
Living in the USA I am dismayed how Christ is dragged down into its politics instead of appealing to Him to lift us up above it.
Yes we need Christianity not just for the west but for ourselves and humanity and Starkey completely misses Hollands point
You are mistaken, Christianity will not save the West, Christ saves our eternal souls. We As Christians must save our Civilization, Jesus has our back but he did not die on the cross to save our civilization.
@@davidsingh6944 by our souls being saved our civilisation will be saved too
@@Adam-pk2te then logically our Civilization was saved that day on Calvary 1991 years ago and we don’t have to do anything to fix it ourselves.
@@davidsingh6944well said!
I agree with your premise but not with Holland who says Christianity is responsible for woke.
Yes Christ is King!
The Gospels were written by the Flavians and Jesus is a mythological character like Theseus or Perseus.
@@lervish1966 myths are very important to humans and they build their identity around them.
@@evolassunglasses4673 Christianity is nauseating.
@@lervish1966 According to some BS you read on the internet you mean lol
@@lervish1966 Which Gospels, the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Philip, the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, and the Gospel of Judas for example?
Let's take the Gospel of John as an example to see if the Flavians make the claim. The Writer of this Gospel identifies himself as an eyewitness to the events of the fourth Gospel and as "the disciple whom Jesus loved." John 13:23, John 19:26, John 20:2, John 21:7, John 21:20. The Synoptic Gospels identify 3 Apostles that Jesus singled out on important occasions. Peter, to whom Jesus gave the "keys of the kingdom", James, the son of Zebedee, and James' younger brother, the Apostle John..
The "beloved disciple" who authors the fourth Gospel cannot be Peter because the fourth Gospel records that on several occasions Peter was accompanied by the "beloved disciple" (John 20:2; 21:20). James Zebedee is eliminated as a candidate for the "beloved disciple" by the fact that he was the first Apostle to be martyred (circa 42AD). We have an accurate date for his martyrdom not only from Christian sources (Acts 12:2) but also from Jewish accounts. This fact eliminates James because the fourth Gospel was written at least 25 years after his death. That only leaves John, son of Zebedee as the "beloved disciple". *The Gospel according John*
The early Church Fathers like Irenaeus Bishop of Lyon Irenaeus was the disciple of St. Polycarp, Bishop of Smyrna who was a disciple of John the Apostle. Irenaeus, briefly describes the composition of and authorship of the four Gospels and records that after the first three were written "John, the disciple of our Lord, who also had leaned upon his breast, did himself publish a Gospel during his residence at Ephesus in Asia." Irenaeus quotes verses from the fourth Gospel and attributes the words to "John, the disciple of the Lord."
I am old enough to remember the art series by sir Kenneth Clark called "Civilisation" and the first episode is called "By the skin of our teeth." Back in the year 1000 Europe was in a very perilous state as it was being attacked on all sides -from the north by the Vikings, from the east by the Magyars and worst of all from the south(the soft underbelly to quote Churchill) by the Muslims. These were the most dangerous as they represented an alternative civilisation. Europe however survived and went on to greatness!
Yes few people realise how close Europe came to falling to Islam. They invaded France. They held much of Italy, William the conquerors men fought in Italy before coming to England. And Spain did not regain Granada until 1492
@@grannyannie2948 Not many people know it but the city of Rome itself was attacked by a large band of Arabs who had a base about 100 kilometers south of Rome - they tried to overcome the city walls but these were too strong so they ransacked the Vatican and the surrounding churches which were then outside the city walls (fuori le mura) Eventually the Pope was able to bring together a coalition of Christian states that defeated the Arabs at sea in the battle of Ostia. This was far from being the only raid -you need merely to examine the particular chronicles of practically every town anywhere near the coast in Italy (and elsewhere!) to discover that they all came under incessant Arab raids and some had to be abandoned as a result. Even as late as the decades before the launching of the First Crusade Islamic forces based in the city of Denia in Spain (then nearly all Muslim) were poised to invade Italy again and actually took over parts of the nearby island of Sardinia to establish a base for that invasion. Yes -by the skin of our teeth!
@@kaloarepo288 So true. And another fun fact is that when Rome fell to the barbarians, the barbarians were already living in the city as economic migrants. Their name barbarians refers to their accented Latin.
@@grannyannie2948 But that was a long time before -with the Arab sack of Rome we are talking about 850 AD -they never actually got into the city because of the walls and the pope had the walls reinforced and these are known as the Leonine walls. A group of Arabs actually barricaded themselves into a cliffside fortress in a town outside Rome and when the fortress was taken over the Arabs were allowed to remain if they converted to Christianity. The town is today called Saracinesco which means "town of the Saracens" "Saracen" is another name for "Arab".
@@kaloarepo288 Thankyou, I did know, as I said these battles continued into William's era, especially on the coast. My point was there are precedents for entire civilizations being brought down by immigration.
The barbarians would work for so little people freed their slaves. The slaves were now eligible for the dole ( the bread now included meat and beer) inflation was rampant. The currency was debased and worthless. Anything sound familiar?
I would ask David Starkey this fundamental question would he rather live under an absolute Christian ✝️ Monarchy? Or an absolute Muslim ☪️ Kalifate?
Absolutely. I just said similar to a homosexual complaining about the Old Testament in the comments. I say keep your churches and pubs full, demand ham sandwiches or leave your country with a religious vacuum to be filled.
Yes, I think Starkey gets far too hung up on English exceptionalism, parliamentary sovereignty etc. But when push comes to shove, that will not matter.
Follow the path of Jesus Christ !
Yes we need Christianity, and it is there whether people like it or not!
Yes and children should go back to the way we was in the 1960 . We said prayers in schools but it had to be stopped because it upset Muslims. Now look at today. The only schools never stopped was Catholic schools 🏫
See, people like you are absolutely fine obliging other people to follow your faith.
@@Minimmalmythicist I am Roman Catholic. But children today don’t no the Lord’s Prayer 🙏 and that hurts me . Just ask any child to say the lords prayer
@@soniafell3133 well, it´s because most people aren´t Christian any more. It´s the same reason why people can´t recite prayers to Woden.
So sad for them.
@@Minimmalmythicist no children are baptised every week in England.
And now we have Starmer, a Communist..... I have this hunch that the more a person/party talks of the people the less it cares about them. Blair exhibited his dangerous ignorance of the history any intelligent person should know when he dubbed Diana The People's Princess. Every time I hear that I cringe and am tempted to throw things .....
Absolute monarchy is not a Christian idea. Indeed the Celtic Church was opposed to it - it is an idea the evolved in the Medieval European courts. The idea of representation also comes from the concept of public fame which comes from church law!
We all need to follow the teachings of Jesus, but definitely DO NOT need religion
That includes how Jesus treated money changers. I think about how the Southern Baptist Convention would rather not think of that part, as it shills for Reaganism.
History is great as long as it's truthful and not censored!
I'm relieved I wasn't the interviewer:)
We need Orthodoxy and we need to retake Constantinople.
The new King didn’t even take the oath to uphold the laws of the country at his coronation!
Do we expect an emissary of the devil to do this?
So disappointing.
Too busy swearing oaths to Schwab
Because they are FAKE laws due to the Blair Revolution
Perhaps it is the king being honest. It's not like the political class ensures laws apply to their kind.
One gets the impression the interviewer is out of his league here. But this was good natured, entertaining, informative. Just bravo to both. 👏
Starkey gotta love his talks.
These two are delightful: the learned professor playing with his student; very History Boys!
Great conversation
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I think Dr Starkey (whom I greatly admire) is wrong about work being a Christian heresy. Far too glib, simplistic and reductive an explanation. There is no forgiveness or redemption in woke.
I love that he mentions Handel; wonderful. And the references to TS Eliot. Perfect.
Clarkson has it wrong. Newts and fish _are_ more important than people from _abroad._ Since the Venn diagram of people that care about both is so close to a perfect circle, it's time the argument was framed as such. It's biodiversity _or_ open borders, the two are not compatible.
Scotland wasn't bankrupt in the early 1700's as Mr Starkey & others keep claiming, a quarter of the nations liquid assets were lost in the Darien Scheme. As badly planned & disastrous Darien was, England pulled out of supporting a trading colony at virtually the last minute & passed a law preventing investors putting money into it. They wanted it to fail. The idea of moving goods across that small isthmus of what is now Panama was a worthy aspiration, thus the Panama Canal today. Scots overwhelming didn't want union, neither did the English, but the lure of access to trading routes with RN protection was too good a lure for the Scottish elites. England wanted Scotland on board, mainly for strategic reasons, as the Westminster government still do. Having 30% of Britain's land & 60% of her seas, it is clear that strategic value is still very important to the British state.
England itself was close to being bankrupt in the 1690's.
David Starkey is amongst a number of English historians, intellects, critics that does't like us Scots, their comments have become repetitive. I remember him playing to the gallery on BBC Question Time with his anti-Scottish comments to much hilarity with the audience & David Dimbleby sniggering away. The EBC would be more accurate & the founder a Scot called John Reith, was a right Uncle Tam. Carry on then!
The English didn't want it - but we are never asked. Agreed most Scots wouldn't have seen any benefit in it. However wealthy lowlanders recognised the opportunities. 30% of land might be over the border, but anyone would rather have 2% in the fens as you can't eat bracken. 60% of sea might be over the border, but that's of no real use to anyone as it's devoid of fish and the lowlanders want it totally controlled by EU.
THANK GOD 🙏🙏🙏 FOR JESUS 🙏🙏🙏
We don't need a foreign religion, we Europeans need to reconnect with our roots and be proud of ourselves.
Oh, man. I'm just going to have to watch this a few times to absorb it all. The amount that this guy knows about history is astounding.
This is perhaps the most academically and intellectually invigorating conversion on UA-cam.
Dr. Starkey is in an incredible form even comparing to his other almost feverish debates.
Starkey must well understand that religion is not solely Christian, or any other set of beliefs, on that plane, but that man is a religious being, hence, in this case, Starkey religiously speaks up for his own side. Humanism is a religion all of its own, so is atheism.
This is why I joke about having weebs and otakus take up shintoism or Zen Buddhism.
Beware the bowtied barbarians. They have exquisitely appointed dungeons
God does not need humans to be God.
This Man is Mesmerising!. Thankyou.i
We absolutely do. Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life. We all need a closer association with the Bible, the answers to all our problems are explained there. Part of the main problem today is that we have drifted far away from the Word of God.
More than ever.
Really enjoyed the watching Harrison's tutorial with Dr Starkey. It was informative and entertaining
A wonderful interview! It takes quite the intellect to keep up with Professor Starkey and get him thinking. Well done, Harrison!
I hope our Caesar is out there watching this. I'd love it to be Nigel but I fear the constitutional reactionism we need which Starkey advocates for will not come from anyone older than the Zoomers. I say this as an atypically patriotic millenial.
Thank you David. Most educational.
I never understood why the classics were taught at top schools. I think I understand why now
David Starkey is a courageous man, he understands more than anyone the need to belong.
Thank you, Dr. Starkey!
Always amusing and stimulating. Some good arguments about the watering down of Parliament. The process has been acelorated by Johnson, Truss and Sunak , to the point where Badenoch could defy the Speaker by constantly announcing policy and plans in press conferences outside parliament. Prof DS ignores the NEWSPEAK of the foreign owned media such as the Murdoch stable referring to the Continent as Europe (sic). Orwell or Eric Blair was a socialist like myself, and is constantly misquoted. Keep it up Prof Starkey , but playing the victim is most unbecoming, and the verbosity needs constantly challenging particularly on the Charles Stuarts , in the pay of the French,all 3 of them and Scottish feudal despotic tyrants given half a chance. At least tyrant Charles 1st got his just deserts
I'm an agnostic, but I do miss the good old times, when I was still a Christian, life was so much easier, knowing that there's an actual God watching over you.
For several years, I have thought of the possible upsides of the Christpill, but I was never able to take it and not barf it up.
Yes! We do.
Blair became a Catholic when dismantling England.
Went over to the enemy, being an enemy of the people., He might as well have joined with Fawkes, beneath the cellar of parliament
Don't be silly
He waited until he was out of power.
As a Catholic convert I can’t see him waiting till it was safe as sincere.
Let's stop with the anti Catholic sentiments. It will not help us. And, do we forget that England was of course catholic prior to Reformation, so why do some act like it's foreign.
As for Blair, I hope his conversion is sincere bit who knows
Thrilling and robust discussion - I gained more respect for David Starkey after hearing his down-to-Earth thoughts on religion.
Great talk. At the end, I wonder if the difference between the two views about believing in God is akin to the difference between believing in "free will" or "acting as if there is free will"
this question raises another equally important question,
and this is WHAT is Christianity itself.
For if it is true ( God forbid, says I with full irony) it is NOT what people think it is
for St Paul in his letter to t romans says that it is about having the holy spirit and being led by him, and that if you do not have this spirit you are none of his.
So it is is not about having some strange doctrinal belief and a set of moral values, not when 6 of the 10 commandment are found in any other religion, as in Chinese Confucianism
and besides if true Christianity spells the doom of all societies for the huge majority of people do not genuinely convert to Christ ( strait is the gate, narrow the way and FEW there are who find it, Jesus said) and only go so far , if even as far as that, as to , adopt some empty mummery of going through the religious motions.
so does religious hypocrisy save a society?
Clearly not, but that is ultimately, when you look at it, what you are asking.
But why would Dr Starkey say we need Christianity to save society when he blamed it for the fall of roman empire in another video, and followed Gibbon in calling it a religion of slaves to do so.
Jesus Christ saves individuals and individual only, and besides the world and its empires and nations are passing away
so if Christianity is true, again i say God forbid for even conservatives find such a notion anathema) the nations are passing way for the are in opposition to God ( Psalm 2) even if devoutly church going.
I'm sorry to rain on your parade but this is the nature of Christianity. and surely , as I said, the nature of it is crucial to the question can it save the West?
I went through an atheist period. But at a time of deep grief experienced the spirit of Christ. So I would agree with Paul.
As for your deeper question, as a society we should be culturally Christian. We should not leave vacuums for other religions to fill. If people from other cultures don't like it, so be it, they can settle in other lands. As I say in Australia keep your churches and pubs full.
PS Gibbons had a poor opinion of Christianity.
No one needs religion, everyone needs God
Christ is our High Priest
Thank you Dr Starkey for everything that you do. You really are a gift to the English people and an absolute treasure.
What a perfect ending statement from Sir David Starkey
A nation is a homogenous people who share a genetic and cultural heritage. Also The nature of that nation is it's philosophy that in turn is based on the theology of that nation.
You could say then why are other European countries who did not have our ancient freedoms as highlighted by Dr Starkey. As they are Christian also. But remember I started by saying a nation, not a state , is a culturally homogenous group. So I would say that Britain does need it Christian heritage in order to survive. As it is the Rock that the Nation is built upon . And not the shifting sand that the nation is now collapsing into today.
Utter rubbish
"a nation is a culturally homogenous group", ok then France isn´t a nation, as it has the Bretons, the Basques and the Alsatians. Spain isn´t a nation as it has the Basques, the Catalans and the Galicians. I think this definition needs a bit of reworking.
I think about how many Christians fell for magic dirt arguments, and it led to the alt right.
I'm a thick squaddie, and even I get what Blair did wrong.
- Don't fix what ain't broken in the first place.
Prof. Starkey's complete misreading of Tom Holland's book seems to derive from his fetishizing the particular over the abstract, the same belief that leads to his misunderstanding of the American founding principles. The Christianity that Mr. Holland discusses is not its mere exoskeleton--the church and its formal power--but the radical ideas of Jesus that led to the on-going overthrow of the prevailing Greco-Roman assumptions of might-makes-right.
Fascinating conversation.
I have a strong respect for Starkey. He is right that the traditions of the English (starting with the anglo-saxon Pagans) are our primary political motivators. Where i think he is wrong is that the English have a syncretic faith, they are English and Christian and the two are infinitely bound together.
What we need now is a Christianity that recognises this and resists the temptation to behave like continental Christianity.
Yes the West and it,s People Need Christianity.
Great interview.
The lies we are told , the truth we must hold. Sharon James.
I love these intelligent conversations.
YES.
YES
A house divided against itself will fall.
Starkey does not consider that Greek and Roman governance also included what they thought higher powers would accept.
Exceptional discussion - informative & helpful.
I really enjoyed this discussion