thank you so much for addressing POCD. as someone that suffers from very bad intrusive ruminations regarding that and other very distressing thoughts, there was a point in my life where i would dissociate bc the anxiety and disgust got too high for me to deal with . it helps a lot to understand the differences and realize that im not alone :)
Agreed. My intrusive thoughts got incredibly debilitating. Now that I realize those thoughts are just thoughts and the fact that they repulse me and cause great distress means I am not a pedophile. Now I try to center myself and remind myself that thoughts are just thoughts
@@seth8277 I am not a MAP person myself but as a human being when I think I have wrong thought I am not supposed to have I severely mentally punish myself a alot and self hatred. Everyone have terrible thoughts. And just because we have thoughts does not necessarily mean we will act on it.
Listening to this channel is making me realise just how horrendous my own childhood actually was. I was harmed so often, by so many different people, and always blamed myself. There was no one I could talk to. I took that pattern into my adult life, choosing people who harmed me and blamed me for it. When the systems that were supposed to help, often didn't, it just reinforced the belief that it was my own fault and I deserved all the pain and suffering because I was somehow a bad person, although I could never figure out why. When I did stumble onto kind and caring people, who might have actually been a healing influence, I wasn't able to trust them, and pushed them away. It took a long time, but eventually I managed to piece things together, find some help and start on a healing journey. But what a waste of life and potential. I'm 62 years old now, finally have some happiness and peace within myself. I'm having a healthier relationship with myself for the first time, but there's so much sadness and grief here, it really wasn't my fault that all this bad stuff happened to me, but I've spent the majority of my life punishing myself for it.
Tackling child abuse from all sides is really important. My friend use to work in comms (999 police) and she had a man calling wanted to be arrested cos he was afraid he might do something to a child. They of course couldn't do any anything cos he hadn't committed a crime. He was I mental anguish and there was no help out there. Very sad!
It is honestly a tragedy that folks have to go through this. Thank you for the work you're doing to help people understand and humanize folks with this paraphilia.
I remember reading that Michael Jackson's father would make them do strip teases for female audience members on stage before they were famous; he would have been in grade school and his eldest brothers maybe in high school. He also said his his brothers would bring teen-aged groupies and women into hotel rooms they shares engage in sexual activity while he pretended to be asleep.
Michael was more trans age than anything it seems. He couldn’t develop into an adult properly because his child hood didn’t allow for proper maturity. It was clear he thought of himself as a kid. Way more going on in that case than pedophilia.
And yet, Michael Jackson was proven innocent on all of his charges. Please do not continue to perpetrate lies because the media at the time wanted to frame him as the bad guy
The comments are already pretty wild but I think this topic is so important. I'm currently in university studying psychology and I hope to become a therapist some day and would like to work in those programs in Germany one commenter mentioned. I was exposed to pedophilia and non offending pedophiles at a very young age and always had a very empathetic and nuanced take on those people. I saw those ads for *Kein täter werden* or *Don't offend* as a child and young teen on the TV and was always very fascinated that there is this possibility of a nuanced take. I also believe those people have a right for therapy in their own right. It's always easy to say: Well yeah, cause it helps children to be protected. But I think it's a mechanism to distance ourselves from those people, saying that we help and interact with them for the greater good. But turning this around: If there is a 100% guarantee that a NOMAP stays NOMAP, would that mean we shouldn't help them, even while they are suffering, just because there would be no greater good? I don't think so. Making a space for NOMAPS in society for help and treatment helps everyone. And even if a lot if society thinks NOMAPS are not deserving of it, I think they are.
I believe treating anyone under a category of behaviors or disorders gives us more information, stories etc to utilize that information to create prevention tactics. No one is born like that. But they have predispositions in genetics and environmental factors. I believe the person he interviewed in part 1, he was introduced to sex at such a young age I think at 4 yesss old by a 6 year old who potentially was SA’d her self ,that changed the way his brain and chemistry developed. Is it a dangerous group when untreated and not monitored yes. We need to work collectively to investigate mental health issues and make it 200% more accessible so we can organize, rehabilitate and improve future generations. Our field isn’t asking people to be okay with the behaviors but we are speaking on behalf of keeping society safe and improve the future gen. I grew up with trauma (nothing related to this video) and I’m working on my own things so I don’t pass this on to those I love.
I think it's wrong of people to be critical of NOMAPs as if they're likely to offend. It's my belief that everyone has almost a responsibility to try to at least understand some of the psychology behind MAPs, O or NO, before they offer solutions. Now I'm not referring to the commenters in the string but those who are quick to offer drastic solutions. I've been studying this subject since 2012 in an effort to understand. I'm an unlicensed guidance counselor for people who want to stay off the radar but want someone nonjudgmental to open up to. Like any reasonable person, if a crime is or has taken place, I'm compelled to report it. Both NOMAPs and no longer offending MAPs need people willing to listen and offer helpful guidance. If that's the best I can do, at least it's a step towards some solution.
I really appreciated the interview. I thought it was interesting and I felt empathic towards Jay and sad for hos stuggles. At the same time I felt extremely uncomfortable about the fact that he and MAP people in general do not seem to show empathy or talk about the possible consequenses for their victims. In this interview and other like this, it seems that stigma and law are the only things keeping MAPs from being offenders, and if that is true, if empathy is not part of it, then we should definately not destigmatize it at all. Im guessing you know more about this than the rest of us, but it has me very worried that they do not talk about how their actions could ruin someones life.
I felt the same way, listening to the interview. Even while talking he doesn't seem capable to put the child's interests above his own; how are we supposed to believe he will be able to do so if left alone with the kid, especially if intoxicated?
@@sallyann985 she prob was 6/7 , no grown ass man should be having those feelings. I feel sorry for his brother, must be horrific for all of them to be manipulated like that.
Which are the victims he should be feeling empathy for? He doesn't have any. Is he supposed to make his whole life a prayer for the people you think he might harm? Victims are not part of his story. Why does he need to be inserting them into it? Suppose you were introduced to someone and they immediately turned hostile. They start talking about how someone who resembled you once did something awful. They describe this awful event in detail and demand a guarantee that you would not do the same. You give this to them, but then they get mad at you for having the wrong emotions about it. Why aren't you gushing with the empathy that you *owe* them?! How much empathy would you feel for this person? You have to remember that Jay is a person. He has the same limits you or I would. No one is going to willingly make your fear of what they might do the central feature of their life. Frankly, I would rather be molested myself than live that way.
There's an even larger conversation here to be had about abusers and those who have violent impulses. Imagine a culture where seeking help was encouraged, rather than seen as a sign of weakness or faulure. We shame people who have these problems and issolate them, which just leads to more harm. We draw invisible lines between what is abuse and accidental harm as well. At some point ideally we encourage support and responsibility for everyone, which obviously necessitates many taking responsibility for harms causes and we all stop pretending we've never caused emotional harm to another person and that there being far worse in the world makes everyday trauma okay. I want to live in a world where any harm or distress is worth talking about and listening to, and any harmful patterns are worth seeking help to resolve
i'm very happy to see someone being able to have a nuanced rational discussion about this topic. shaming non offending maps does not help to prevent child abuse in any way, people need to be able to seek help. sadly a lot of folks are way too judgemental and prefer hating on things they don't understand to protect children we need to differentiate between nomaps and sadistic child abusers (who often are not even pedophiles), so we can assure the first ones can get therapy and the second ones go to prison....
Did woodlandlove, or anyone else, not agree with that? 😂 Because to me it seems like you didn't read the comment but rather made it up in your head. Which is common but yeah, not really accurate. @@AS-sn5gf
One of my biggest regrets as a supervisor of individuals in a trusted position was my overt display of disgust for crossing the ‘relationship’ boundary for those in their care. Both parties were adults, but my rejection of nuance left those caregivers that had felt an attraction no way to communicate that to me to get help beforehand. I wish I could go back and change my behavior in the sense that I can accept that attraction could happen, but to cross the boundary was the unacceptable part. Then show those caregivers I supervised a way out of those situations 😢
Thank you for this interview, I see how this is not for us to get scared or fear it is to educate us for awareness. Whether it is sexual abuse, physical abuse, drug abuse, crime and violence regardless those are still issues people have and deal with and we have to continue to monitor and take care of our families we are not powerful enough to try to keep people away or keep our kids indoors at all times, I do know in the state that I live in, if it is not homelessness exposure, gang violence exposure drug abuse exposure sexual abuse it is also everywhere. I am glad we can learn from someone who is willing to admit to their problems, is like learning from an abuser a person who physically abused their wife, or who abused their partners with violence not many will admit it and blame, and some do and share why they did it, whether they were kids or adults it is an issue they have and they do need help. makes me not want to have anymore kids :/ and people that physically abuse their spouses also makes you worry if the next partner you have may be an abuser.. so again we are powerless over people places and things, if we keep our kids safe from people do we put them in a bubble, also we would think schools were the safest and today they are also another statistic in where crime happens.
I dont think I can ever look at my family eyes and ever tell them of my sexual abuse partly due to shame and party not wanting to hurt or burden them. I couldnt fathom the pain they might feel hearing my story or they might shame me. The fear of not hurting your family and protect your family from hearing your bad story is so strong. I wish we didnt have such a savior complex where we feel intense sadness letting our loved one know of our pain.
I want to offer you some perspective. I know you say you want to protect their feelings, but we don’t have control over how someone else can feel or react to situations. When you were being sexually abused, your abuser was not concerned with how you might feel about it. Your story is YOUR story and it’s yours to share whenever you please, I hope that you don’t feel you need to keep this a secret forever because that is a pain within itself. I hear you today, and I hope you find healing ❤️🩹
re the question about identifying as a MAP, I think the questioner means why do they ‘lean in’ to the identity if they’re trying to escape it, rather than seeming to accept it. In the same way that homophobic gay Christian’s don’t call themselves ‘gay’ but say ‘struggling with same sex attraction’. I guess the questioner is wondering if it would be healthier for them to keep the ‘struggle’ (or at least the intention not to act) front and centre in their self-description. (Not saying I personally think it should go either way!)
I think the biggest issue is connecting attraction to sex and projecting it. For most people, desire to have sex and attraction are almost synonymous. Made a post on virped, asking for honesty and many are attracted but never fantasize about sex at all. The arousal and attraction doesn’t make for that, it sort of stays there. One I talked to had a romantic dream about rocking s a kid on his lap until she fell asleep for example. James Cantor, the top psychologist in the field, says that it’s often sort of like the wires between parental and protecting emotions getting crossed with arousal emotions.
I think labels can help people find themselves, who they are and what they're feeling. Without labels everything would be so messy. Probably a bad example, but still an example: Some trans people DO NOT WANT TO BE TRANS (because dysphoria sucks balls) but they still grab at the label because.. how else do they know?
@@iamjay6112 Well said. The key is to recognise that our thoughts, feelings and actions are our own responsibility. NOMAPS aren’t the big problem - sadly every sector of society is riddled with sex offenders actively raping and debouching children…they are everywhere and very few get caught. Then there’s the parents who belt the life out of their children who are also actively participating in another form of child abuse…and feel they have a right to do so. What on earth happened to innocent fun and a happy home?
The reason most people never "come across" a MAP is likely due to stigma (most of which is understandable), not rarity. There's really just no reason to out yourself as having that kind of predilection. It offers zero benefit to you. Most people are better off taking it to their grave, lest someone take them to the grave over it. I have to imagine that for every one person who gets caught and charged with sexual abuse of a minor, there are *at least* 5-10 people who seriously think about it but won't do it. You may not be familiar with this, but there used to be a certain sub-reddit dedicated to posting erotic material of girls. It was the second most searched for term on the site before they banned it, and it even won sub of the year in a 2008 user poll. So unless you want to split hairs over the prefix attached to the -phile, it's likely more common than you seem to believe.
Yes, if you include hebephiles and ephebophiles with MAPs, which they should be as they are all minors, then a large majority of adults would fall into the MAP spectrum to some degree. Most of that majority wouldn't act on it, but we aren't saying they are sexual predators, just that they are attracted to some degree sexually to minors. I remember as a child hearing grown men make jokes about "if there's grass on the field, play ball", maybe not being entirely serious but at least indicating their attraction to underage teen girls.
@@enderthexenocide760 Yeah, my experiences confirm that as well. I can't tell you how many grown adult men told me they wanted to fuck the "cash me outside, howbowdah" girl back when she first became well-known.
They are not MAP or NOMAP any more than a heterosexual is a OSAP (opposite sex attracted person). Naming a pedophile by its name rather than trying to sideline the name with an acronym made up of the description is the beginning to stop the denial. Accept what and who you are so you can start to understand if there are potential ways to prevent harm. Period. Yes, there are strong feelings about this subject and people want to protect who they cherish most:their kids. It's up to the health professionals to try to help as they can. Until we find solutions that keep children safe, we do have to identify who they are, not to ostracize them but to keep children away from them. There needs to be a helpful approach to reach out to them but from professionals trained to address this Not from society at large. Just keep the kids safe first. It's the least we can do for our future generations.
Not all people attracted to minors are pedophiles. People attracted to 12 and 13 year olds would not technically be pedophiles because the minors aren’t pre pubescent.
MAP is not a euphemism. To the extent it is somehow milder than "pedophile," it is only because "pedophile" is routinely misused and treated as a synonym for "child molester." In fact, it is more often misused in this manner than it is used correctly. It's one thing for them to "accept what and who [they] are." It's another thing to accept identification with true child molesters (most of whom are not pedophiles, though they get called that anyway).
@@somexp12 The idea that most child molesters are not pedos is an absolutely outrageous claim. IIRC, it's about a 50/50 split. Yes, sometimes adults will abuse children for reasons other than being a pedo, but in at least half of the cases, their paraphilia was the strongest motivating factor.
@asdfghjkl2261 51% is still most, and, yes, usually the numbers come out to over 50. Anyhow, even if 100% of molesters were pedophiles, using "pedophile" as though it were synonymous with "child molester" is still misusing it. It's just not what the word means. If, however, you're going to dig in your heels and demand, against reason, that these are or should be synonyms, then you completely justify the use of "MAP." Absolutely no one is under any obligation to label themselves as someone who committed a crime they did not commit and are not even likely to commit. If "I'm a pedophile" translates to "I'm a ticking time bomb that could abuse a kid any day now," then most of these guys are not pedophiles according to the definition that *you* insisted on.
@asdfghjkl2261 If it's 50/50, then "outrageous claim" is really beyond hyperbole. In reality, while the numbers change, it's usually 51+% who don't qualify as pedos, so "most" isn't "outrageous." It's just true. That said, if you're still going to dig in your heels and insist on using "p3d0phile" and "ch1ld m0lester" as synonyms, then you've completely justified the use of those "euphemisms" the OP is whining about. Absolutely no one has any obligation to label themselves as guilty of a crime they have not committed and are not even likely to commit. You can either use the p-word correctly or stop complaining when people choose not to identify with it. If "I'm a p3d0ph1le" translates to "I'm a ticking time bomb who might abuse a kid any day now," then, by *your own definition,* most of these guys are not ped0phil3s.
I know why you told that random story of how you experienced rage as a consequence of feelings of hopelessness, you couldn't stop it, you would have stopped it, had you known. I only say I kno why, because i too, mostly in the past, but I do have relapses from time to time, of destroying my property, my sense of powerlessness builds up, another bad event can cause me to go red, ballistic
I wanna start off by saying I really enjoy watching your videos and have been a follower for while, but I was really surprised by the way that you would go about talking to a 15 year old child about sexual abuse (1:10:12). In my opinion, telling a child that “It would kill me” if they didn’t feel comfortable sharing a traumatic event like that sounds like a very damaging approach. But I’m curious to hear why you would choose that approach.
It would help if they didn’t lie…they say no it’s not for sexual gratification or no I don’t get sexually aroused it’s more emotional. How can anyone help when they are lieing
It isn't necessarily a lie. Many times the emotional component is much stronger than the sexual component to the attraction and the interactions with the child are not about sexual gratification at all but rather emotional gratification. What you are seeing as a lie is really just your misunderstanding of the nuanced feelings that pedophiles experience. You can have a sexual attraction to someone and still have all your interactions have nothing to do with sexual gratification or the hope of leading to sexual gratification. It may seem complicated but you can be attracted sexually to 5 year olds in general, have a strong emotional attachment to a specific 5 year old, all while not getting physically aroused over the child who is the subject of your emotional attachment. I'm not saying "Jay" was never aroused over the though of his niece, on the contrary I'm sure he was to some extent, but it is perfectly plausible that he was never aroused over his close interactions with her or in her presence, and it is also just as plausible that he never used the thought of her for sexual fantasies.
@@kul2130 Often? Those to words have distinct definitions. Meaning, they are not synonyms. One can't mean the other. If I decide to use the word car to refer to airplanes, that would be confusing and not grammatically correct. If some one meant to say romantically, they must say that word, else, their original sentence becomes a lie. Grammar and meaning of words matters.
You know that they lie? If you're a psychic then cool, you should make money of it. If not then you're delusional and if anything I would argue that it is dangerous
great explanations... sexual abuse in society is so prevalent it's almost a Univeral part of the human experience, even if it never happens to us as individuals it most definitely has effected someone else close to us that we know and love. which in turn effects us.
Child pornography is them acting on their desires child pornographers make money on the suffering of kids whoever owns child pornography contributes to the harm of children, this person now feels it’s ok to feel bad for his coach that went to jail for contributing to the harm of kids?????
respectfully id like to say that this is the opposite of what that person was saying. they were angry and disgusted at the harm of those children and at their suffering, but they also mourned the loss of their relationship with an important figure in their life and maybe who they thought he was, as well as felt empathy for what his life must be like. even though he did something wrong. feelings are complicated and don’t solely dedicate themselves to any one side of an issue. stating that does NOT absolve the coach from his actions, and the person stated such. that was the whole point. i think someone consuming child porn is about as good as the act itself, for all the reasons you stated, but someone sharing their complicated feelings about a person in their life who turned out to be a pedo was NEVER stated to be an excuse or justification for child abuse, and is not helpful nor accurate to the discussion being had by this video.
@@armondtanz I think some gay people were able to get married with a woman and have a fulfilling life. The desire may still be there somewhere but life doesn't stop there. Should be the same for pedo.
@@jonathaningram8157 but its probably a lot easier when youve got a child whos brain is not capable of working out what is right or wrong. My theory is its not worth the gamble on your childs life... Same as "oh richard used to have urges to kill people all the time, hes cured now. Can richard stay in yours for a few months" Ummmm, nope.
@@jonathaningram8157 As a bisexual/pansexual person, I feel dissatisfied having to choose one gender to be with monogomously forever (which I still prefer monogomy). Like, I almost treat experiences with each gender as completely separate. But, I feel grateful that there is SOME outlet even when I'm monogomously focused on one gender. I can't imagine if I felt disgusted by one gender (like Jay described his encounters with women) but was forced to act that way forever. So, I think it depends on how wide your sexual attractions are. If you're exclusively attracted to people you can never be with (even romantically), I think life would feel pretty hopeless.
Calling people who absolutely cannot get behind any part of this completely apathetic, predator immature it is unnecessarily hurtful, and judge mental. as a mom, I hate the fact that I can’t take my children to the beach without wondering if some pervert is staring at my children! I listen to the interview from start to finish, and I wanted to puke the entire time. When it was over, I looked at my daughter and started to cry. Then I can’t imagine if anything happens to them. Or any other child for that matter. Normalizing this in any way is dangerous. I consider myself an empathetic person. But I also have a obligation to protect children overall. you keep saying, you understand the vitriol, but I don’t really think that you do. You’re coming from a therapeutic perspective which I appreciate it. I think the interview was very informative. It was also very VERY disturbing. With nonchalant talk about incest. Guess that makes me immature 🤷
Your response is totally normal. I think there just needs to be a place for them to go. To figure it out to do research on them. Maybe a childless society. I feel the same way you do. I just want to solve the problem. We have to get these people helped and away from children. And the science community needs to figure it out. Because clearly its a problem it everywhere it’s scares me daily. And I want it to be solved so bad.
Clearly we as a society haven’t solved the problem yet. Because abuse is still happening. They are still out there. I want the problem solved. So children are safe.
I also believe that having the general public find empathy for these people is pointless. The scientists are the ones with experience to fix it. Not us. We have a right to be weirded out and scared shit. I think giving these people a platform does nothing to fix the problem at all. It just freaks us all out.
Please tell me where he normalized pedophilia. He's actually trying to understand the root source of pedophile's issues and thus keep children safe. He's a therapist, what is he supposed to do, scream and stomp his feet when he reads emails? If you want to do that, that's your right. But you don't seem to understand the concept that other people are their own human beings. You seem to be hearing/interpreting a lot of things Dr. Honda never remotely said, and it's honestly pretty gross that you're throwing all your distortions back on him in your punitive way. It is immature. If you couldn't handle the nature of the discussion, don't click on the video. It's very simple. The person Dr. Honda interviewed says he never offended, and is trying to open the conversation for other MAPs to seek help to handle their issues instead of harming children. If you're against that, I assume you'd rather more children get harmed as long as you get to signal your own superiority?
Thank you to some really beautiful beautiful responses! Thank you for your respect and love! I think most people can relate to me on a visceral level. Not wanting my kids go to the beach and kiss one disgusting pervert is watching is totally irrational. I want my babies to be babies. They are indeed 21.
i wish you would make the video title/thumbnail more discreet. I don't have premium and I listen at work and on the go so having PEDOPHILE plastered on my screen is no bueno
Mate, thank you. I left discord for being made to feel my opinions weren't warranted or wanted when I expressed my views on not wanting to normalise paedophilia, nor wanting to occupy a space/conversation with a paedophile; I disassociated from the reddit when realising not one, but two paedos, were monitoring and actively speaking against those that proposed this an inappropriate topic and platform in which to give voices to anyone less than victims (ie abusers); I am very near unsubscribing to someone I once thought advocated for victims, albeit in a non-linear "here's what the abuser thinks" style breakdowns. This is straight up trying to normalise paedophilia and it hurts my soul. Where is Dr Honda, and why has he not checked himself on this one? Where are the multiple episodes dedicated to how paedophilia has affected victims, and victims' advocates? Where is the sanity in feeling like *I'm* the mental one for remotely suggesting that paedophilia isn't OK, the stigma is rightly there, and the apathy of those 'lurkers' and even their mere presence in the conversation forums is disturbing, unsettling, and downright disheartening for those I *thought * Dr Honda was trying to help (ie victims). It feels like a "hey, be careful what you say because us paedos are everywhere". As a female, I resent the thought that rape occurs because women wore the wrong outfit etc, to have people tell me - in multiple forums - that the problem lies with the KIDS, that we should stop allowing the KIDS in society (in this day and age) to exist, because wether we like it or not, nefarious people are out there, makes my teeth want to shatter for force. I'm flabbergasted, upset, and moved on a level I'm rarely moved to, to speak out against this. Does anyone have any links to support victims who might be affected by this topic? Can we maybe do more to speak for the victims?? Just so many levels of ugh (my version of anger on the comments section of YT).
@@Faerie_Nuff Literally all he's saying is that people who suffer from the attraction and haven't hurt anyone deserve to be able to seek help and not be demonized for a crime they haven't committed. Nothing about that is, in any way, counter to victims or normalizing abuse. This *does* help prevent future victims. It is nothing less than sanctimony to act like Dr. Honda doesn't advocate for victims because he is giving space to someone who hasn't offended or done anything to hurt anyone. You're conflating thought with action and you're conflating innocent human beings with fucking predators. This *does* help victims.
Angry at who for what? People with thoughts they didn't ask for, for merely existing? Why would you be angry at people who haven't done anything? Direct your anger towards those that actually abuse and not those that drew the short straw and are actively *not* offending.
@@epileptictrees5213 ... And that's the sad fact of the matter, no? That's the sad reality of what he's promoting. Evidently. Again, for the record, I don't, and won't, promote normalising paedophilia. End of. This convo is disturbing and disgusting, I'll happily live here: on the moral side of normal. But you do you babes. (/s if needed, but I certainly hope people like this never "do you babes" cos holy f the message that sends, my heart can't cope with)
@@Faerie_Nuff What are you even talking about? What he's promoting? You mean he's promoting that innocent people with an illness are able to get help? You mean he's promoting something that will help everyone? You're not on the "moral side of normal" you're on the side of dehumanizing mentally ill people who haven't hurt anyone else. Nobody is normalizing the abuse of children or saying that it's okay to sexually abuse them. You care more about your own moral superiority than actually helping anyone.
Kirk you really owe it to your audience to apologize for your unhinged comparison of pedos to the oppression of Jews. You have a huge audience and sway over that audience and what you said by comparing "the oppression of pedophiles" to the actual systemic, historic violent oppression and genocide of Jews is disgusting, antisemitic, actively harmful to Jewish people in real time, and also a gross mischaracterization of pedophiles as some innocent oppressed group as opposed to a group of people who have historically presented a huge harm to society. I'm deeply disturbed at this comparison you made and platformed to your huge audience. It calls into question your fitness to even have a platform.
@I am Jay Pedophilia entails being attracted to the (real or imagined) sexual torture of children (since children cannot consent to sex and experience physical pain and damage from all unwanted sexual contact). The reason so many psychologists are afraid of taking them on as patients is because so many of them do, in fact, become offenders in their lifetimes, which puts the doctor at risk professionally. People having an aversion to a paraphilia that harms marginalized groups (and pedophilia isn't the only paraphilia that gets this rejection) isn't at all the same thing as them having bigotry against a racial identity, ethnicity, religious identity, or disability. Black and Indigenous people of all backgrounds (including Jews of Color) and oppressed religious groups alike have literally been harassed, robbed, displaced, kidnapped, attacked, sterilized, castrated (both chemically and physically, often without any or with insufficient anesthetics), physically and psychologically tortured, murdered, discriminated against, terrorized, and dehumanized for literally doing nothing wrong and for not even thinking any controversial thoughts (and even having controversial thoughts or deeds would not excuse the discrimination they've faced). They have been harmed for non-offenses like knocking on a white woman's door (General Lee case of 1904), trying to get medical treatment (Tuskegee Syphilis Study, the sterilization of 1/3 of Boricua women from the 1930s-1970s, etc.), developing a successful business (the Tulsa, Oklahoma Race Massacre, Kristallnacht), or simply existing and minding their own business (the premise of every genocide). This is a level of discrimination that was codified into law and attacks people for who they are, something that is simply not the same for pedophilia. Even those not actively trafficked were still essentially under indefinite martial law (Indigenous people and, during WWII, Japanese Americans risked being jailed if they left reservations/internment camps/concentration camps they'd been forced onto just for their identities), Indigenous boarding schools physically abused students for speaking their own languages, countries placed quotas on Jewish immigrants, and BIPOC have been banned from entire communities for generations (sundown towns still exist sadly). If can read all of that and still equate pedophilia to being Black, Asian, Jewish, etc., then all that shows is that you are either being dishonest or you are way too ignorant on what pedophilia, racism, antisemitism, etc. are to speak on this subject at all. You are not only revealing how you take a self-pitying attitude toward your paraphilia (which is not a mindset conducive to accountability), but you are also being very, very racist and antisemitic. Note how I'm not attacking you for your identity. I am censuring you for your words and deeds and giving you sincere advice on the self-pitying schema. Like anyone else, you are entitled to your feelings, but the opinions you've developed in response to those feelings are ahistorical, harmful, and are not exempt from intense criticism. In your own words, you admit that no one is actually forcing you into ovens and gas chambers. At most, people may joke about hurting you, but the hurt doesn't actually materialize in the same way that it does as frequently with BIPOC and marginalized religious groups. We have the statistics to back this up. If you are truly the well-intentioned non-offender you claim to be, then you should take it seriously when people demand you stop making offensive comparisons like this. You are already harming people in this very conversation by being racist and antisemitic, and any decent person would care about that and change their ways. If you are truly a non-offender, then stop trivializing genocide, antisemitism, and racism like you have been doing. You say you don't commit harm? Then I am telling you to stop engaging in harmful, antisemitic, and racist behavior right now. A good person takes both sexual abuse and racist abuse seriously, and you are already showing a disregard for the latter very directly. How can we trust you to care about victims of sexual violence when you can't seem to be trusted to be respectful to victims of racist and antisemitic violence? Have you anything substantial to say in your defense?
@@iamjay6112 As someone who lost two great aunts to the gas chambers, people forcing you into them and people talking about it are two VERY different things. 😒
@@sallyann985 So, you think that if it were any other group, I’d say that someone threatening to send you to the gas chamber is the exact same thing as someone actually doing it? Or even that it’s just as bad? Um…yeah. You’re wrong. Actual genocide is worse than words. It doesn’t matter the group. I’m not saying words can’t be hurtful. But to compare words to an actual, REAL genocide where people were rounded up and forced en masse into gas chambers to be slaughtered? No. They’re not the same. It doesn’t matter who the words are directed towards. They’re not the same.
You can't convert pedophiles any more than you can truly convert homosexuals. You can learn to suppress feelings, which is what homosexual conversion therapy does, but it doesn't actually convert anyone. The same is true for pedophiles, you can learn to suppress urges and feelings but if it it's not done in a healthy way suppression alone can have catastrophic outcomes.
@redbloodedriver Well, it was a problem trying that first on gay people. With gay people, the path of least resistance actually was just to leave them alone and allow them to integrate their sexuality into their lives. This means that we've completely sworn off "conversion therapy," when we still haven't 100% proven it's complete impossibility. It also means that, because bona-fide professionals gave this up earlier, our most recent examples of "conversion therapy" involve the hairbrained schemes that religious fundamentalism could dream up. These scemes involve equating homosexuality to addiction and "treating" it with a 12-step model, or, going off Romans 1's theory, assuming the orientation was spiritual in origin and therefore must have a spiritual solution. Of course, 12 step treatment isn't going to change one's response to erotic stimuli anymore than it changes one's response to drug stimuli. It sometimes alleviates compulsive behavior, but neither sexual orientation nor paraphilia is compulsive in itself. So, once the professionals bowed out, all the amateurs started pushing theories and solutions that were defaming to their clients and doomed to failure from the start. With pfiles, the calculus is a bit different. We haven't found anything that really works, but it's still worth it to keep trying for them. Just so long as we recognize that "pray the gay away" (or, in this case, "pray the p away") doesn't qualify as "trying," as it's based less on science and more on prejudicial attitudes towards sexual minorities. In the meantime, however, nothing works, so there's no justification to fault people for merely *being* something that's inconvenient. As mentioned earlier, this is not, in itself, a compulsive disorder, so the majority of them can abstain from behaviors that affect others, whilst the rest of us can abstain from penalizing them for thoughts as well as behaviors that have no impact on others.
Sexual orientations can't be converted. I have not watch the video, but having "corn" is not necessarily a crime (unless some child was harmed in the process of obtaining such "corn" ... I consider offending to actually do a crime against childremn where children are harmed or endangered.
Overall great video. Try not to discount the importance of historical context and worldwide views. Normalizing historically this is very good up to the point of removing the shame component and scapegoating. What is happening right now is not the norm. People should not deny their history.
Something interesting to mention and that ive been thinking about is how much these people want to be lumped in with LGBT identities, however, the way they feel this attraction is so different. For example, i'm queer but you'd never see me looking at my cousin or another relative with romantic/se*ual feelings. Yet so many of these people have sexual and romantic feelings for their relatives. Like Jay did for his niece...he claimed they werent romantic but he had such a strange fixation for her that really had they been left to flourish i have a hard time believing that they would not have become romantic. I just wonder what that says about this and also why so many of these instances are this way. Its almost as if once they have this kind of attraction the lines of whats appropriate are completely blurred even if theyre family. Does this comment make sense? Like even if i like girls, I'm not attracted to my friends like that, or family members, or random women on the street or internet that i dont know. And yet for these people it doesnt matter who they are. I think this is what disturbs me the most when they try to ID themselves as being part of LGBT because it brings on the assumption that because theyre gay and you are a boy they must like you! Which is something LGBT people have fought hard enough against.
Hey, I don't want to be part of lgbt. I acknowledge that what I have is a disorder of some kind. It's hard to put a classification on it, because it's more than sexual. Like calling it a sexual disorder would be inadequate given the romantic part of it, and the feelings that go beyond even that. Like with my niece, I maintain that it wasn't romantic, it was more what I could only describe as paternal in a way that was way deeper or stronger than it should have been. And, yes, it seems that there's something about my condition that makes it so that I can develop that feeling for almost any girl child, however, it's also true that it's not guaranteed. I wouldn't become immediately attracted to or enamored with just any girl at any time, though it's much more likely that I would than not. Nothing about this causes me to lose my sense of what is appropriate or inappropriate, though I will admit that it can mess with my sense of right and wrong. Like in my heart, what feels right, I can know in my mind, logically is wrong. I think it does take self awareness and critical thinking to be able to override that feeling in my heart and know what's wrong and to avoid it. I think it's very true that there are many people with my disorder who are not strong enough in their mind and self awareness who do commit abuse, not out of a desire to cause harm, but to fulfill what feels right to them. A big part of what I want to do in having this conversation publicly is to reach those people before they've made a mistake and bring them into the community where they can be educated in a compassionate way by people who have the same struggles.
a thought this was going to be a follow-up interview.. to see if the jay person had made progress... being a parent I totally understand his brother's reactions but iit's tragic that he has no contact with his family since they seemed to be so close otherwise... and since if what he is saying is true he's never hurt a child or even considered it. it seems to be more emotional than sexual... wanting to feel like a child again.. perhaps you could interview him again sometime to see his evolution and progress... and if anything in his mind has changed...
Is it tragic? They found out their brother that was obsessed with their daughter, his own niece, and was attracted to children. They needed to protect her and having him around is not safe for her and makes them uncomfy and they probably wonder like wow if he wouldn’t of been exposed and spent more time with our daughter, he might of hurt her. As a parents, your only goal is to protect your children even if it means never talking to your brother again. It is sad but I would of done the same as them.
@@iamjay6112Hey Jay I have a question. When you described the interaction with your niece you said you had no sexual or romantic attraction to her. Are you only emotionally attracted to children? Do you have any sexual attraction at all to say a hot 20 year old female. Are you Asexual? I know these questions are very personal and I’m not asking them to be disrespectful in any way. I’m just trying to get a better understanding. Thanks.
@@iamjay6112 I think you were not being totally honest with yourself, i know that because i suffer with limerence and the way you're describing your attachment is quite similar.. the fact is, if you think about someone, anyone, most of the time then it's unhealthy.. and if it's a child as in your case, that's just a huge sign, you can't ignore it and justify it to yourself. the only way, is no contact. the woman who outed you did you a favor, just avoid children completely because that's the healthiest boundary you can create :)
You are awesome. These Pedophile people need to keep all to themselves. Keep in a secret for life. NEVER hurt a child. If anyone hurts a child, the Pedophile should be in prison for LIFE. No letting them out because they are born that way. They will do this again and again.
How exactly is "keeping in a secret" going to help them not hurt children? You are completely missing the bigger picture here. They need to be able to come forward and be met with compassion in order to receive the help that they need. They need to be able to feel safe enough to ask for help.
It's a horrible thing having to suffer through an existance, where you can never meet your needs, because it would mean causing harm and it's a horrible thing being forced to suffer silently and alone on top of that, because no one is willing to understand.
@@karinab8552 a lack of understanding is a big part of the problem (and by that i mean understanding how it happens, not necessarily destigmatising it but more so more educational materials challenging the black and white general perspective of it).
" it’s not ok and it’s a horrible thing"←That is a bigoted pedophobic opinion. Not a fact. And you don't want to understand because you are a bigot. Same reason homophobes and racist and other bigots REFUSE to understand on purpose to keep being bigots.
1:13:12 wtf, do not talk to your kid like this. Talk to them throughout their lives so they know they can come to you when abuse is happening. He sounded like a predator himself.
Dr. Honda mentioned in the video, if you're angry, what actions are you taking in real life to create positive change? If you're just sitting around being angry and hateful, you're part of the problem.
This kind of attitude, threat of violence and hate speech is the reason why people who realise their attraction to minors don't come forward to get help. You're literally creating suffering in the world, both in the small and in the bigger picture.
before you hype up Germany’s forward-thinking pedophile help line (unreal), are you aware of the dramatic rise in child sex abuse rates in that country in recent years? not really something I aspire for our country to become
The articles I found on that increase attributed it to a few things- better investigative techniques and more reports; minors sharing the content among themselves and not realizing it's a crime, and Europe being a hotbed for that kind of stuff in general. Nowhere did the report mention that it was because of therapy for pedophiles, and I'm not sure why you'd assume it would be.
Hello, a german here. There is actually no evidence that the pedo help line changed something for the better. I would say on the contray. Well we have a left and green goverment that terrorise everyone with their woke agenda. The green Party are the most welcoming pro pedo movement in our country. The try to establish their pedo agenda. But thankfully, the people starting to wake up and vote for the AfD. Please if someone teils you the AfD ist nazi/rightwing/ extrimist. That is fake. The AfD has the highest members in jews and migriants compared to other partys here. And they are the only ones that want to protect the children.
I really liked your other videos that about relationships, personal growth, self healing etc. but let me say you are objectively wrong about this and Im literally shaking, sick to my stomach typing this. Defending pedos is the lowest of the low and you should feel sick and ashamed as a human being. You are no better than people who touch kids themselves. I think you and that guy you talked to should be in jail and never see the light of day again for the harm you are causing to society and kids everywhere. Your going to create a world where these people think it’s okay to be themselves and it is absolutely not. It is not acceptable to be a pedo or touch kids. I’ve always had a bad relationship with therapists and yet I actually respected you and your messaging. At least I’m reminded that therapists are even more sick in the head than the people they treat. I pray nothing ever happens to your kids but after listen to all this bs you’d probably be fine with it
This world is becoming way too loose with the heinous accusations. "You are no better than people who touch kids themselves" is such a vile thing to say to someone, especially a therapist who dedicates their life to helping people, sacrifices their own time and mental health to better understand people and keep abuse from happening. You don't think this affects him negatively? Whether we like it or not, pedophiles exist. We can't wish them away and ignoring them and their issues is not going to stop them from offending. That may actually ENABLE them. Acknowledging the issue is also not defending the behavior. If this is too triggering for you, please step away. But think twice before throwing out accusations like that.
sounds like you didn't listen to the trigger warning. Please tell me when Dr. Honda defended pedophiles. Point to any specific instance. If you misinterpret what a therapist says and use that as ammunition to demonize everyone of that profession, that's on you. If you can't get over your own childish black-and-white thinking, and inability to actually listen to what people are saying, that's on you.
@@callmekirkland8 If you're not an expert in psychology, you shouldn't be making evaluations or judgments on how "treatable" it is. That is not for you to decide. You can offer studies, but you can't evaluate that yourself based on anecdotes or your personal moral compass (I agree that it's disgusting and unacceptable so please don't strawman me on that). You don't get to say "undoubtedly" either. There is doubt. He wouldn't be doing this if he felt more children were being harmed as a result. And why would you assume his intent is hubris and ego? Why are you assuming the worst of a therapist who has never demonstrated anything besides empathy, objectivity, and a desire to make the world a safer place for everybody? The intention here is to acknowledge the issue and address it because pedophiles will be emboldened by shadow, and choose silence and refuse help if thoughts lead to automatic life-ruining punishment. Do you really not see how THAT leads to more abused children?
Pedo - child / Phile- love Literally, pedophile means lover a of a child. I think it's a perfectly apt and wonderful term. But, sometimes nomenclature needs to evolve for conversations to be had. Plato: MAP Aristotle: MAP Michelangelo: MAP Leonardo da Vinci: MAP Guy who wrote Alice in Wonderland: MAP Guy who wrote Peter Pan: Map Wilfred Owen: MAP Author C. Clarke: MAP Goethe: MAP Walt Whitman: MAP Allen Ginsberg: MAP This list is just an easy google search. It does not even scratch the surface of MAPs who have contributed greatly to society. I don't think we as a civilization are sophisticated enough to discuss this issue. We're like Nazis faced with talking about Jews in a humane manner, or Jim Crow South asked to consider interracial marriage. We are just not there as a civilization. We are like apes walking around with our knuckles on the ground. I think the good doctor pushes matters are far as it can go in our socially constructed polite society, but even he--possibly under fear of death or cancellation--has to interject his own disgust and give his audience time to "notice their bodies". Since the beginning of time, kids have had sex with adults, and that's not about to change any time soon. The good doctor talks about damage, but an in depth study needs to be conducted into how much of said damage is, in actuality, caused by society's shame fetish. If we could take away the shame imposed by society on the child and the MAP, one must wonder how much damage there actually is? The shame fetish is real predator. Additionally, society needs to have an honest discussion about REAL harm. If we aren't smart enough to see the difference between an inter-generational relationship that is positive and one that is abusive, than our criticism needs to be of our own powers of observation and intellectual honesty. Again, this comes down to our fetish of shame. Get rid of the shame and 99% of the problems go away. And what about the child as pursuer of the sexual relationship. Perhaps we need to call these kids "adult attracted minors" AAM, as any gay guy can tell you, it's not at all uncommon to find a boy cursing for a sexual hookup on one of the apps or the shopping mall bathrooms, or his little side hustle on Instagram. But this is a huge blind spot in our society, for we rather construct a boogeyman and go after a scapegoat we are comfortable with than actually turn and face reality.
The only thing you said that I agree with was being the Boogeyman. Y'all really are every parents worst dream come true and nobody wants to hear how bad you feel we want remorse and actions towards not offending. Everything else sounds like excuses because that's what they are.
You do not love a child if you sexually abuse them and a child cannot reciprocate what a "lover" is. Child lover in that context is an oxymoron. There is no beauty in betraying the trust of an innocent child whose brain or body is not fully developed to cope with such. You can romanticize it all you want, but all of those powerful men you mentioned are just predators. No child wants to have sexual relations with an adult! As much as paedophiles may want to convince themselves of that. There may be a discussion to be had about what age constitutes a child, but 16 years and under is a good general guide as everyone reaches puberty and maturity at different times, thus having an agreed legal age is best for their protection. If you want to argue that, surely you can agree that it absolutely is abuse to have sexual relations with anyone who cannot raise or birth a child! Sex is purely for the your species to survive and the pleasure attributed to that certifies the biological need to do so. I actually cannot believe you are questioning the harm on a child. Ask any adult who was sexually abused as a child by an ADULT, what the harm was. And nope, they won't say it's the stigma around the so called "fetish" And I'll offer you this analogy regarding saying a child enjoys it, if I was a child under the age of 16 and I wanted to eat only icecream all day everyday because it was yum and tastes nice, would it be abuse to agree, buy it for me and feed me only that? Ridiculous.
There is literally a topic in psychology called 'language confusion between adults and children.' Research this and how it influences distorting a child's behavior, and how adults make it seem like 'a child flirting.' Children who allegedly 'initiate' sexual relationships with adults DO NOT EXIST. They are children who were previously abused by adults. That's all. Just an MAP camouflaging and rationalizing a baseless situation."
There is literally a topic in psychology called 'language confusion between adults and children.' Research this and how it influences distorting a child's behavior, and how adults make it seem like 'a child flirting.' Children who allegedly 'initiate' sexual relationships with adults DO NOT EXIST. They are children who were previously abused by adults. That's all. Just an MAP camouflaging and rationalizing a baseless situation.
thank you so much for addressing POCD. as someone that suffers from very bad intrusive ruminations regarding that and other very distressing thoughts, there was a point in my life where i would dissociate bc the anxiety and disgust got too high for me to deal with . it helps a lot to understand the differences and realize that im not alone :)
Agreed. My intrusive thoughts got incredibly debilitating. Now that I realize those thoughts are just thoughts and the fact that they repulse me and cause great distress means I am not a pedophile. Now I try to center myself and remind myself that thoughts are just thoughts
@@seth8277 I am not a MAP person myself but as a human being when I think I have wrong thought I am not supposed to have I severely mentally punish myself a alot and self hatred. Everyone have terrible thoughts. And just because we have thoughts does not necessarily mean we will act on it.
Listening to this channel is making me realise just how horrendous my own childhood actually was. I was harmed so often, by so many different people, and always blamed myself. There was no one I could talk to. I took that pattern into my adult life, choosing people who harmed me and blamed me for it. When the systems that were supposed to help, often didn't, it just reinforced the belief that it was my own fault and I deserved all the pain and suffering because I was somehow a bad person, although I could never figure out why. When I did stumble onto kind and caring people, who might have actually been a healing influence, I wasn't able to trust them, and pushed them away. It took a long time, but eventually I managed to piece things together, find some help and start on a healing journey. But what a waste of life and potential. I'm 62 years old now, finally have some happiness and peace within myself. I'm having a healthier relationship with myself for the first time, but there's so much sadness and grief here, it really wasn't my fault that all this bad stuff happened to me, but I've spent the majority of my life punishing myself for it.
Tackling child abuse from all sides is really important.
My friend use to work in comms (999 police) and she had a man calling wanted to be arrested cos he was afraid he might do something to a child. They of course couldn't do any anything cos he hadn't committed a crime. He was I mental anguish and there was no help out there. Very sad!
It is honestly a tragedy that folks have to go through this. Thank you for the work you're doing to help people understand and humanize folks with this paraphilia.
I remember reading that Michael Jackson's father would make them do strip teases for female audience members on stage before they were famous; he would have been in grade school and his eldest brothers maybe in high school. He also said his his brothers would bring teen-aged groupies and women into hotel rooms they shares engage in sexual activity while he pretended to be asleep.
Michael was more trans age than anything it seems. He couldn’t develop into an adult properly because his child hood didn’t allow for proper maturity. It was clear he thought of himself as a kid. Way more going on in that case than pedophilia.
Holy shit no wonder he turned out the way he was, that shit sounds quite damaging.
And yet, Michael Jackson was proven innocent on all of his charges. Please do not continue to perpetrate lies because the media at the time wanted to frame him as the bad guy
The comments are already pretty wild but I think this topic is so important. I'm currently in university studying psychology and I hope to become a therapist some day and would like to work in those programs in Germany one commenter mentioned. I was exposed to pedophilia and non offending pedophiles at a very young age and always had a very empathetic and nuanced take on those people. I saw those ads for *Kein täter werden* or *Don't offend* as a child and young teen on the TV and was always very fascinated that there is this possibility of a nuanced take. I also believe those people have a right for therapy in their own right. It's always easy to say: Well yeah, cause it helps children to be protected. But I think it's a mechanism to distance ourselves from those people, saying that we help and interact with them for the greater good. But turning this around: If there is a 100% guarantee that a NOMAP stays NOMAP, would that mean we shouldn't help them, even while they are suffering, just because there would be no greater good? I don't think so. Making a space for NOMAPS in society for help and treatment helps everyone. And even if a lot if society thinks NOMAPS are not deserving of it, I think they are.
I believe treating anyone under a category of behaviors or disorders gives us more information, stories etc to utilize that information to create prevention tactics. No one is born like that. But they have predispositions in genetics and environmental factors. I believe the person he interviewed in part 1, he was introduced to sex at such a young age I think at 4 yesss old by a 6 year old who potentially was SA’d her self ,that changed the way his brain and chemistry developed. Is it a dangerous group when untreated and not monitored yes. We need to work collectively to investigate mental health issues and make it 200% more accessible so we can organize, rehabilitate and improve future generations. Our field isn’t asking people to be okay with the behaviors but we are speaking on behalf of keeping society safe and improve the future gen. I grew up with trauma (nothing related to this video) and I’m working on my own things so I don’t pass this on to those I love.
I think it's wrong of people to be critical of NOMAPs as if they're likely to offend. It's my belief that everyone has almost a responsibility to try to at least understand some of the psychology behind MAPs, O or NO, before they offer solutions. Now I'm not referring to the commenters in the string but those who are quick to offer drastic solutions. I've been studying this subject since 2012 in an effort to understand. I'm an unlicensed guidance counselor for people who want to stay off the radar but want someone nonjudgmental to open up to. Like any reasonable person, if a crime is or has taken place, I'm compelled to report it. Both NOMAPs and no longer offending MAPs need people willing to listen and offer helpful guidance. If that's the best I can do, at least it's a step towards some solution.
Wonderfully said
25:59
Well here's the deal if you called me mentally ill either on the street or in your office, I'd kill you. Pathologize me at your peril.
I really appreciated the interview. I thought it was interesting and I felt empathic towards Jay and sad for hos stuggles. At the same time I felt extremely uncomfortable about the fact that he and MAP people in general do not seem to show empathy or talk about the possible consequenses for their victims. In this interview and other like this, it seems that stigma and law are the only things keeping MAPs from being offenders, and if that is true, if empathy is not part of it, then we should definately not destigmatize it at all.
Im guessing you know more about this than the rest of us, but it has me very worried that they do not talk about how their actions could ruin someones life.
I felt the same way, listening to the interview. Even while talking he doesn't seem capable to put the child's interests above his own; how are we supposed to believe he will be able to do so if left alone with the kid, especially if intoxicated?
Did he have a victim?
@@sallyann985 Hmmm, the story with his niece , wasnt good. Sounds like grooming.
@@sallyann985 she prob was 6/7 , no grown ass man should be having those feelings. I feel sorry for his brother, must be horrific for all of them to be manipulated like that.
Which are the victims he should be feeling empathy for? He doesn't have any. Is he supposed to make his whole life a prayer for the people you think he might harm? Victims are not part of his story. Why does he need to be inserting them into it?
Suppose you were introduced to someone and they immediately turned hostile. They start talking about how someone who resembled you once did something awful. They describe this awful event in detail and demand a guarantee that you would not do the same. You give this to them, but then they get mad at you for having the wrong emotions about it. Why aren't you gushing with the empathy that you *owe* them?!
How much empathy would you feel for this person?
You have to remember that Jay is a person. He has the same limits you or I would. No one is going to willingly make your fear of what they might do the central feature of their life. Frankly, I would rather be molested myself than live that way.
There's an even larger conversation here to be had about abusers and those who have violent impulses. Imagine a culture where seeking help was encouraged, rather than seen as a sign of weakness or faulure. We shame people who have these problems and issolate them, which just leads to more harm. We draw invisible lines between what is abuse and accidental harm as well. At some point ideally we encourage support and responsibility for everyone, which obviously necessitates many taking responsibility for harms causes and we all stop pretending we've never caused emotional harm to another person and that there being far worse in the world makes everyday trauma okay. I want to live in a world where any harm or distress is worth talking about and listening to, and any harmful patterns are worth seeking help to resolve
i'm very happy to see someone being able to have a nuanced rational discussion about this topic. shaming non offending maps does not help to prevent child abuse in any way, people need to be able to seek help. sadly a lot of folks are way too judgemental and prefer hating on things they don't understand
to protect children we need to differentiate between nomaps and sadistic child abusers (who often are not even pedophiles), so we can assure the first ones can get therapy and the second ones go to prison....
The people in the comments are so against help, acceptance, therapy... why? You have something to share with the class? Lol.
You can want someone to get help while understanding they are dangerous, and motivated to be seen in a sympathetic light.
Did woodlandlove, or anyone else, not agree with that?
😂 Because to me it seems like you didn't read the comment but rather made it up in your head. Which is common but yeah, not really accurate. @@AS-sn5gf
Right on
One of my biggest regrets as a supervisor of individuals in a trusted position was my overt display of disgust for crossing the ‘relationship’ boundary for those in their care. Both parties were adults, but my rejection of nuance left those caregivers that had felt an attraction no way to communicate that to me to get help beforehand. I wish I could go back and change my behavior in the sense that I can accept that attraction could happen, but to cross the boundary was the unacceptable part. Then show those caregivers I supervised a way out of those situations 😢
Thank you for this interview, I see how this is not for us to get scared or fear it is to educate us for awareness. Whether it is sexual abuse, physical abuse, drug abuse, crime and violence regardless those are still issues people have and deal with and we have to continue to monitor and take care of our families we are not powerful enough to try to keep people away or keep our kids indoors at all times, I do know in the state that I live in, if it is not homelessness exposure, gang violence exposure drug abuse exposure sexual abuse it is also everywhere. I am glad we can learn from someone who is willing to admit to their problems,
is like learning from an abuser a person who physically abused their wife, or who abused their partners with violence not many will admit it and blame, and some do and share why they did it, whether they were kids or adults it is an issue they have and they do need help. makes me not want to have anymore kids :/ and people that physically abuse their spouses also makes you worry if the next partner you have may be an abuser.. so again we are powerless over people places and things, if we keep our kids safe from people do we put them in a bubble, also we would think schools were the safest and today they are also another statistic in where crime happens.
I dont think I can ever look at my family eyes and ever tell them of my sexual abuse partly due to shame and party not wanting to hurt or burden them. I couldnt fathom the pain they might feel hearing my story or they might shame me. The fear of not hurting your family and protect your family from hearing your bad story is so strong. I wish we didnt have such a savior complex where we feel intense sadness letting our loved one know of our pain.
I want to offer you some perspective. I know you say you want to protect their feelings, but we don’t have control over how someone else can feel or react to situations. When you were being sexually abused, your abuser was not concerned with how you might feel about it. Your story is YOUR story and it’s yours to share whenever you please, I hope that you don’t feel you need to keep this a secret forever because that is a pain within itself. I hear you today, and I hope you find healing ❤️🩹
No you cannot, statistically, go your whole life without meeting a person who's attracted to kids
re the question about identifying as a MAP, I think the questioner means why do they ‘lean in’ to the identity if they’re trying to escape it, rather than seeming to accept it. In the same way that homophobic gay Christian’s don’t call themselves ‘gay’ but say ‘struggling with same sex attraction’. I guess the questioner is wondering if it would be healthier for them to keep the ‘struggle’ (or at least the intention not to act) front and centre in their self-description. (Not saying I personally think it should go either way!)
I think the biggest issue is connecting attraction to sex and projecting it. For most people, desire to have sex and attraction are almost synonymous. Made a post on virped, asking for honesty and many are attracted but never fantasize about sex at all. The arousal and attraction doesn’t make for that, it sort of stays there. One I talked to had a romantic dream about rocking s a kid on his lap until she fell asleep for example. James Cantor, the top psychologist in the field, says that it’s often sort of like the wires between parental and protecting emotions getting crossed with arousal emotions.
I think labels can help people find themselves, who they are and what they're feeling. Without labels everything would be so messy.
Probably a bad example, but still an example: Some trans people DO NOT WANT TO BE TRANS (because dysphoria sucks balls) but they still grab at the label because.. how else do they know?
@@iamjay6112
Well said. The key is to recognise that our thoughts, feelings and actions are our own responsibility.
NOMAPS aren’t the big problem - sadly every sector of society is riddled with sex offenders actively raping and debouching children…they are everywhere and very few get caught. Then there’s the parents who belt the life out of their children who are also actively participating in another form of child abuse…and feel they have a right to do so.
What on earth happened to innocent fun and a happy home?
Very clear . I pass it on .
Thank you
Holy crap I have never heard of pocd. What a horrible struggle that must be. Sending good thoughts
The reason most people never "come across" a MAP is likely due to stigma (most of which is understandable), not rarity. There's really just no reason to out yourself as having that kind of predilection. It offers zero benefit to you. Most people are better off taking it to their grave, lest someone take them to the grave over it. I have to imagine that for every one person who gets caught and charged with sexual abuse of a minor, there are *at least* 5-10 people who seriously think about it but won't do it. You may not be familiar with this, but there used to be a certain sub-reddit dedicated to posting erotic material of girls. It was the second most searched for term on the site before they banned it, and it even won sub of the year in a 2008 user poll. So unless you want to split hairs over the prefix attached to the -phile, it's likely more common than you seem to believe.
Yes, if you include hebephiles and ephebophiles with MAPs, which they should be as they are all minors, then a large majority of adults would fall into the MAP spectrum to some degree. Most of that majority wouldn't act on it, but we aren't saying they are sexual predators, just that they are attracted to some degree sexually to minors. I remember as a child hearing grown men make jokes about "if there's grass on the field, play ball", maybe not being entirely serious but at least indicating their attraction to underage teen girls.
@@enderthexenocide760 Yeah, my experiences confirm that as well. I can't tell you how many grown adult men told me they wanted to fuck the "cash me outside, howbowdah" girl back when she first became well-known.
They are not MAP or NOMAP any more than a heterosexual is a OSAP (opposite sex attracted person). Naming a pedophile by its name rather than trying to sideline the name with an acronym made up of the description is the beginning to stop the denial. Accept what and who you are so you can start to understand if there are potential ways to prevent harm. Period. Yes, there are strong feelings about this subject and people want to protect who they cherish most:their kids. It's up to the health professionals to try to help as they can. Until we find solutions that keep children safe, we do have to identify who they are, not to ostracize them but to keep children away from them. There needs to be a helpful approach to reach out to them but from professionals trained to address this Not from society at large. Just keep the kids safe first. It's the least we can do for our future generations.
Not all people attracted to minors are pedophiles. People attracted to 12 and 13 year olds would not technically be pedophiles because the minors aren’t pre pubescent.
MAP is not a euphemism. To the extent it is somehow milder than "pedophile," it is only because "pedophile" is routinely misused and treated as a synonym for "child molester." In fact, it is more often misused in this manner than it is used correctly.
It's one thing for them to "accept what and who [they] are." It's another thing to accept identification with true child molesters (most of whom are not pedophiles, though they get called that anyway).
@@somexp12 The idea that most child molesters are not pedos is an absolutely outrageous claim. IIRC, it's about a 50/50 split. Yes, sometimes adults will abuse children for reasons other than being a pedo, but in at least half of the cases, their paraphilia was the strongest motivating factor.
@asdfghjkl2261 51% is still most, and, yes, usually the numbers come out to over 50. Anyhow, even if 100% of molesters were pedophiles, using "pedophile" as though it were synonymous with "child molester" is still misusing it. It's just not what the word means.
If, however, you're going to dig in your heels and demand, against reason, that these are or should be synonyms, then you completely justify the use of "MAP." Absolutely no one is under any obligation to label themselves as someone who committed a crime they did not commit and are not even likely to commit. If "I'm a pedophile" translates to "I'm a ticking time bomb that could abuse a kid any day now," then most of these guys are not pedophiles according to the definition that *you* insisted on.
@asdfghjkl2261 If it's 50/50, then "outrageous claim" is really beyond hyperbole. In reality, while the numbers change, it's usually 51+% who don't qualify as pedos, so "most" isn't "outrageous." It's just true.
That said, if you're still going to dig in your heels and insist on using "p3d0phile" and "ch1ld m0lester" as synonyms, then you've completely justified the use of those "euphemisms" the OP is whining about. Absolutely no one has any obligation to label themselves as guilty of a crime they have not committed and are not even likely to commit. You can either use the p-word correctly or stop complaining when people choose not to identify with it. If "I'm a p3d0ph1le" translates to "I'm a ticking time bomb who might abuse a kid any day now," then, by *your own definition,* most of these guys are not ped0phil3s.
I know why you told that random story of how you experienced rage as a consequence of feelings of hopelessness, you couldn't stop it, you would have stopped it, had you known. I only say I kno why, because i too, mostly in the past, but I do have relapses from time to time, of destroying my property, my sense of powerlessness builds up, another bad event can cause me to go red, ballistic
I wanna start off by saying I really enjoy watching your videos and have been a follower for while, but I was really surprised by the way that you would go about talking to a 15 year old child about sexual abuse (1:10:12). In my opinion, telling a child that “It would kill me” if they didn’t feel comfortable sharing a traumatic event like that sounds like a very damaging approach. But I’m curious to hear why you would choose that approach.
It would help if they didn’t lie…they say no it’s not for sexual gratification or no I don’t get sexually aroused it’s more emotional. How can anyone help when they are lieing
It isn't necessarily a lie. Many times the emotional component is much stronger than the sexual component to the attraction and the interactions with the child are not about sexual gratification at all but rather emotional gratification. What you are seeing as a lie is really just your misunderstanding of the nuanced feelings that pedophiles experience. You can have a sexual attraction to someone and still have all your interactions have nothing to do with sexual gratification or the hope of leading to sexual gratification. It may seem complicated but you can be attracted sexually to 5 year olds in general, have a strong emotional attachment to a specific 5 year old, all while not getting physically aroused over the child who is the subject of your emotional attachment. I'm not saying "Jay" was never aroused over the though of his niece, on the contrary I'm sure he was to some extent, but it is perfectly plausible that he was never aroused over his close interactions with her or in her presence, and it is also just as plausible that he never used the thought of her for sexual fantasies.
@@enderthexenocide760 Liking children emotionally but not sexually is not pedophilia. If they call themselves a pedophile then they are lying.
@@Aluzky.Irezumido you understand that by "emotional" often ment "romantical"?
@@kul2130 Often? Those to words have distinct definitions. Meaning, they are not synonyms. One can't mean the other.
If I decide to use the word car to refer to airplanes, that would be confusing and not grammatically correct.
If some one meant to say romantically, they must say that word, else, their original sentence becomes a lie. Grammar and meaning of words matters.
You know that they lie?
If you're a psychic then cool, you should make money of it.
If not then you're delusional and if anything I would argue that it is dangerous
great explanations... sexual abuse in society is so prevalent it's almost a Univeral part of the human experience, even if it never happens to us as individuals it most definitely has effected someone else close to us that we know and love. which in turn effects us.
Child pornography is them acting on their desires child pornographers make money on the suffering of kids whoever owns child pornography contributes to the harm of children, this person now feels it’s ok to feel bad for his coach that went to jail for contributing to the harm of kids?????
respectfully id like to say that this is the opposite of what that person was saying. they were angry and disgusted at the harm of those children and at their suffering, but they also mourned the loss of their relationship with an important figure in their life and maybe who they thought he was, as well as felt empathy for what his life must be like. even though he did something wrong. feelings are complicated and don’t solely dedicate themselves to any one side of an issue. stating that does NOT absolve the coach from his actions, and the person stated such. that was the whole point.
i think someone consuming child porn is about as good as the act itself, for all the reasons you stated, but someone sharing their complicated feelings about a person in their life who turned out to be a pedo was NEVER stated to be an excuse or justification for child abuse, and is not helpful nor accurate to the discussion being had by this video.
People will believe everything
Are there any pedos that have made a full recovery and is able to completely rid themselves of those feelings?
Be like asking a gay person or straight person, have stopped liking same sex/opposite sex. I think this is with yer for life.
@@armondtanz I think some gay people were able to get married with a woman and have a fulfilling life. The desire may still be there somewhere but life doesn't stop there. Should be the same for pedo.
@@jonathaningram8157 but its probably a lot easier when youve got a child whos brain is not capable of working out what is right or wrong.
My theory is its not worth the gamble on your childs life...
Same as "oh richard used to have urges to kill people all the time, hes cured now. Can richard stay in yours for a few months"
Ummmm, nope.
that's real weird. gay people can't marry women and become straight. They are still gay@@jonathaningram8157
@@jonathaningram8157 As a bisexual/pansexual person, I feel dissatisfied having to choose one gender to be with monogomously forever (which I still prefer monogomy). Like, I almost treat experiences with each gender as completely separate. But, I feel grateful that there is SOME outlet even when I'm monogomously focused on one gender.
I can't imagine if I felt disgusted by one gender (like Jay described his encounters with women) but was forced to act that way forever. So, I think it depends on how wide your sexual attractions are. If you're exclusively attracted to people you can never be with (even romantically), I think life would feel pretty hopeless.
Tack!
Thank you, Axel!
Calling people who absolutely cannot get behind any part of this completely apathetic, predator immature it is unnecessarily hurtful, and judge mental. as a mom, I hate the fact that I can’t take my children to the beach without wondering if some pervert is staring at my children! I listen to the interview from start to finish, and I wanted to puke the entire time. When it was over, I looked at my daughter and started to cry. Then I can’t imagine if anything happens to them. Or any other child for that matter. Normalizing this in any way is dangerous. I consider myself an empathetic person. But I also have a obligation to protect children overall. you keep saying, you understand the vitriol, but I don’t really think that you do. You’re coming from a therapeutic perspective which I appreciate it. I think the interview was very informative. It was also very VERY disturbing. With nonchalant talk about incest. Guess that makes me immature 🤷
Your response is totally normal. I think there just needs to be a place for them to go. To figure it out to do research on them. Maybe a childless society. I feel the same way you do. I just want to solve the problem. We have to get these people helped and away from children. And the science community needs to figure it out. Because clearly its a problem it everywhere it’s scares me daily. And I want it to be solved so bad.
Clearly we as a society haven’t solved the problem yet. Because abuse is still happening. They are still out there. I want the problem solved. So children are safe.
I also believe that having the general public find empathy for these people is pointless. The scientists are the ones with experience to fix it. Not us. We have a right to be weirded out and scared shit. I think giving these people a platform does nothing to fix the problem at all. It just freaks us all out.
Please tell me where he normalized pedophilia. He's actually trying to understand the root source of pedophile's issues and thus keep children safe. He's a therapist, what is he supposed to do, scream and stomp his feet when he reads emails? If you want to do that, that's your right. But you don't seem to understand the concept that other people are their own human beings. You seem to be hearing/interpreting a lot of things Dr. Honda never remotely said, and it's honestly pretty gross that you're throwing all your distortions back on him in your punitive way. It is immature. If you couldn't handle the nature of the discussion, don't click on the video. It's very simple. The person Dr. Honda interviewed says he never offended, and is trying to open the conversation for other MAPs to seek help to handle their issues instead of harming children. If you're against that, I assume you'd rather more children get harmed as long as you get to signal your own superiority?
Thank you to some really beautiful beautiful responses! Thank you for your respect and love! I think most people can relate to me on a visceral level. Not wanting my kids go to the beach and kiss one disgusting pervert is watching is totally irrational. I want my babies to be babies. They are indeed 21.
i wish you would make the video title/thumbnail more discreet. I don't have premium and I listen at work and on the go so having PEDOPHILE plastered on my screen is no bueno
then listen to the podcast later? seriously...
@@bigwhy6845 It's just a request. Shoo
You maybe could turn the brightness down? I put my brightness as low as possible in those circumstances :)
LOLL this made me giggle.
Damn, let everyone see the screen AND turn it up LOUD…it’s a subject we should all be discussing!
Yes, it is OK to be angry.
Mate, thank you. I left discord for being made to feel my opinions weren't warranted or wanted when I expressed my views on not wanting to normalise paedophilia, nor wanting to occupy a space/conversation with a paedophile; I disassociated from the reddit when realising not one, but two paedos, were monitoring and actively speaking against those that proposed this an inappropriate topic and platform in which to give voices to anyone less than victims (ie abusers); I am very near unsubscribing to someone I once thought advocated for victims, albeit in a non-linear "here's what the abuser thinks" style breakdowns. This is straight up trying to normalise paedophilia and it hurts my soul.
Where is Dr Honda, and why has he not checked himself on this one? Where are the multiple episodes dedicated to how paedophilia has affected victims, and victims' advocates? Where is the sanity in feeling like *I'm* the mental one for remotely suggesting that paedophilia isn't OK, the stigma is rightly there, and the apathy of those 'lurkers' and even their mere presence in the conversation forums is disturbing, unsettling, and downright disheartening for those I *thought * Dr Honda was trying to help (ie victims). It feels like a "hey, be careful what you say because us paedos are everywhere". As a female, I resent the thought that rape occurs because women wore the wrong outfit etc, to have people tell me - in multiple forums - that the problem lies with the KIDS, that we should stop allowing the KIDS in society (in this day and age) to exist, because wether we like it or not, nefarious people are out there, makes my teeth want to shatter for force.
I'm flabbergasted, upset, and moved on a level I'm rarely moved to, to speak out against this.
Does anyone have any links to support victims who might be affected by this topic? Can we maybe do more to speak for the victims??
Just so many levels of ugh (my version of anger on the comments section of YT).
@@Faerie_Nuff Literally all he's saying is that people who suffer from the attraction and haven't hurt anyone deserve to be able to seek help and not be demonized for a crime they haven't committed. Nothing about that is, in any way, counter to victims or normalizing abuse. This *does* help prevent future victims. It is nothing less than sanctimony to act like Dr. Honda doesn't advocate for victims because he is giving space to someone who hasn't offended or done anything to hurt anyone. You're conflating thought with action and you're conflating innocent human beings with fucking predators. This *does* help victims.
Angry at who for what? People with thoughts they didn't ask for, for merely existing? Why would you be angry at people who haven't done anything? Direct your anger towards those that actually abuse and not those that drew the short straw and are actively *not* offending.
@@epileptictrees5213 ... And that's the sad fact of the matter, no? That's the sad reality of what he's promoting. Evidently.
Again, for the record, I don't, and won't, promote normalising paedophilia. End of.
This convo is disturbing and disgusting, I'll happily live here: on the moral side of normal. But you do you babes. (/s if needed, but I certainly hope people like this never "do you babes" cos holy f the message that sends, my heart can't cope with)
@@Faerie_Nuff What are you even talking about? What he's promoting? You mean he's promoting that innocent people with an illness are able to get help? You mean he's promoting something that will help everyone? You're not on the "moral side of normal" you're on the side of dehumanizing mentally ill people who haven't hurt anyone else. Nobody is normalizing the abuse of children or saying that it's okay to sexually abuse them. You care more about your own moral superiority than actually helping anyone.
Kirk you really owe it to your audience to apologize for your unhinged comparison of pedos to the oppression of Jews. You have a huge audience and sway over that audience and what you said by comparing "the oppression of pedophiles" to the actual systemic, historic violent oppression and genocide of Jews is disgusting, antisemitic, actively harmful to Jewish people in real time, and also a gross mischaracterization of pedophiles as some innocent oppressed group as opposed to a group of people who have historically presented a huge harm to society. I'm deeply disturbed at this comparison you made and platformed to your huge audience. It calls into question your fitness to even have a platform.
What is the timestamp he said that in video? Sorry to hear of this disappointing comparison.
@@iamjay6112 Pedophiles do not face oppression in any way that is comparable to antisemitism, racism, etc.
@I am Jay Pedophilia entails being attracted to the (real or imagined) sexual torture of children (since children cannot consent to sex and experience physical pain and damage from all unwanted sexual contact). The reason so many psychologists are afraid of taking them on as patients is because so many of them do, in fact, become offenders in their lifetimes, which puts the doctor at risk professionally. People having an aversion to a paraphilia that harms marginalized groups (and pedophilia isn't the only paraphilia that gets this rejection) isn't at all the same thing as them having bigotry against a racial identity, ethnicity, religious identity, or disability.
Black and Indigenous people of all backgrounds (including Jews of Color) and oppressed religious groups alike have literally been harassed, robbed, displaced, kidnapped, attacked, sterilized, castrated (both chemically and physically, often without any or with insufficient anesthetics), physically and psychologically tortured, murdered, discriminated against, terrorized, and dehumanized for literally doing nothing wrong and for not even thinking any controversial thoughts (and even having controversial thoughts or deeds would not excuse the discrimination they've faced). They have been harmed for non-offenses like knocking on a white woman's door (General Lee case of 1904), trying to get medical treatment (Tuskegee Syphilis Study, the sterilization of 1/3 of Boricua women from the 1930s-1970s, etc.), developing a successful business (the Tulsa, Oklahoma Race Massacre, Kristallnacht), or simply existing and minding their own business (the premise of every genocide). This is a level of discrimination that was codified into law and attacks people for who they are, something that is simply not the same for pedophilia. Even those not actively trafficked were still essentially under indefinite martial law (Indigenous people and, during WWII, Japanese Americans risked being jailed if they left reservations/internment camps/concentration camps they'd been forced onto just for their identities), Indigenous boarding schools physically abused students for speaking their own languages, countries placed quotas on Jewish immigrants, and BIPOC have been banned from entire communities for generations (sundown towns still exist sadly). If can read all of that and still equate pedophilia to being Black, Asian, Jewish, etc., then all that shows is that you are either being dishonest or you are way too ignorant on what pedophilia, racism, antisemitism, etc. are to speak on this subject at all.
You are not only revealing how you take a self-pitying attitude toward your paraphilia (which is not a mindset conducive to accountability), but you are also being very, very racist and antisemitic. Note how I'm not attacking you for your identity. I am censuring you for your words and deeds and giving you sincere advice on the self-pitying schema. Like anyone else, you are entitled to your feelings, but the opinions you've developed in response to those feelings are ahistorical, harmful, and are not exempt from intense criticism.
In your own words, you admit that no one is actually forcing you into ovens and gas chambers. At most, people may joke about hurting you, but the hurt doesn't actually materialize in the same way that it does as frequently with BIPOC and marginalized religious groups. We have the statistics to back this up.
If you are truly the well-intentioned non-offender you claim to be, then you should take it seriously when people demand you stop making offensive comparisons like this. You are already harming people in this very conversation by being racist and antisemitic, and any decent person would care about that and change their ways. If you are truly a non-offender, then stop trivializing genocide, antisemitism, and racism like you have been doing. You say you don't commit harm? Then I am telling you to stop engaging in harmful, antisemitic, and racist behavior right now.
A good person takes both sexual abuse and racist abuse seriously, and you are already showing a disregard for the latter very directly. How can we trust you to care about victims of sexual violence when you can't seem to be trusted to be respectful to victims of racist and antisemitic violence? Have you anything substantial to say in your defense?
@@iamjay6112 As someone who lost two great aunts to the gas chambers, people forcing you into them and people talking about it are two VERY different things. 😒
@@sallyann985 So, you think that if it were any other group, I’d say that someone threatening to send you to the gas chamber is the exact same thing as someone actually doing it? Or even that it’s just as bad?
Um…yeah. You’re wrong.
Actual genocide is worse than words. It doesn’t matter the group. I’m not saying words can’t be hurtful. But to compare words to an actual, REAL genocide where people were rounded up and forced en masse into gas chambers to be slaughtered? No. They’re not the same. It doesn’t matter who the words are directed towards. They’re not the same.
13:54, you've got the cure? I think that needs to be elaborated upon.
Blaming everyone else in society because professionals in psychology lack success in converting these people.
The email where the coach had material on his computer, that is offending.
...because there is no such thing as converting a sexual disorder or feelings. They tried that with gay people. How did that work bestie?
You can't convert pedophiles any more than you can truly convert homosexuals. You can learn to suppress feelings, which is what homosexual conversion therapy does, but it doesn't actually convert anyone. The same is true for pedophiles, you can learn to suppress urges and feelings but if it it's not done in a healthy way suppression alone can have catastrophic outcomes.
@redbloodedriver Well, it was a problem trying that first on gay people. With gay people, the path of least resistance actually was just to leave them alone and allow them to integrate their sexuality into their lives. This means that we've completely sworn off "conversion therapy," when we still haven't 100% proven it's complete impossibility. It also means that, because bona-fide professionals gave this up earlier, our most recent examples of "conversion therapy" involve the hairbrained schemes that religious fundamentalism could dream up. These scemes involve equating homosexuality to addiction and "treating" it with a 12-step model, or, going off Romans 1's theory, assuming the orientation was spiritual in origin and therefore must have a spiritual solution. Of course, 12 step treatment isn't going to change one's response to erotic stimuli anymore than it changes one's response to drug stimuli. It sometimes alleviates compulsive behavior, but neither sexual orientation nor paraphilia is compulsive in itself. So, once the professionals bowed out, all the amateurs started pushing theories and solutions that were defaming to their clients and doomed to failure from the start.
With pfiles, the calculus is a bit different. We haven't found anything that really works, but it's still worth it to keep trying for them. Just so long as we recognize that "pray the gay away" (or, in this case, "pray the p away") doesn't qualify as "trying," as it's based less on science and more on prejudicial attitudes towards sexual minorities.
In the meantime, however, nothing works, so there's no justification to fault people for merely *being* something that's inconvenient. As mentioned earlier, this is not, in itself, a compulsive disorder, so the majority of them can abstain from behaviors that affect others, whilst the rest of us can abstain from penalizing them for thoughts as well as behaviors that have no impact on others.
Sexual orientations can't be converted. I have not watch the video, but having "corn" is not necessarily a crime (unless some child was harmed in the process of obtaining such "corn" ... I consider offending to actually do a crime against childremn where children are harmed or endangered.
Overall great video. Try not to discount the importance of historical context and worldwide views. Normalizing historically this is very good up to the point of removing the shame component and scapegoating. What is happening right now is not the norm. People should not deny their history.
Something interesting to mention and that ive been thinking about is how much these people want to be lumped in with LGBT identities, however, the way they feel this attraction is so different. For example, i'm queer but you'd never see me looking at my cousin or another relative with romantic/se*ual feelings. Yet so many of these people have sexual and romantic feelings for their relatives. Like Jay did for his niece...he claimed they werent romantic but he had such a strange fixation for her that really had they been left to flourish i have a hard time believing that they would not have become romantic. I just wonder what that says about this and also why so many of these instances are this way. Its almost as if once they have this kind of attraction the lines of whats appropriate are completely blurred even if theyre family. Does this comment make sense? Like even if i like girls, I'm not attracted to my friends like that, or family members, or random women on the street or internet that i dont know. And yet for these people it doesnt matter who they are. I think this is what disturbs me the most when they try to ID themselves as being part of LGBT because it brings on the assumption that because theyre gay and you are a boy they must like you! Which is something LGBT people have fought hard enough against.
Hey, I don't want to be part of lgbt. I acknowledge that what I have is a disorder of some kind. It's hard to put a classification on it, because it's more than sexual. Like calling it a sexual disorder would be inadequate given the romantic part of it, and the feelings that go beyond even that. Like with my niece, I maintain that it wasn't romantic, it was more what I could only describe as paternal in a way that was way deeper or stronger than it should have been. And, yes, it seems that there's something about my condition that makes it so that I can develop that feeling for almost any girl child, however, it's also true that it's not guaranteed. I wouldn't become immediately attracted to or enamored with just any girl at any time, though it's much more likely that I would than not. Nothing about this causes me to lose my sense of what is appropriate or inappropriate, though I will admit that it can mess with my sense of right and wrong. Like in my heart, what feels right, I can know in my mind, logically is wrong. I think it does take self awareness and critical thinking to be able to override that feeling in my heart and know what's wrong and to avoid it. I think it's very true that there are many people with my disorder who are not strong enough in their mind and self awareness who do commit abuse, not out of a desire to cause harm, but to fulfill what feels right to them. A big part of what I want to do in having this conversation publicly is to reach those people before they've made a mistake and bring them into the community where they can be educated in a compassionate way by people who have the same struggles.
a thought this was going to be a follow-up interview.. to see if the jay person had made progress... being a parent I totally understand his brother's reactions but iit's tragic that he has no contact with his family since they seemed to be so close otherwise... and since if what he is saying is true he's never hurt a child or even considered it. it seems to be more emotional than sexual... wanting to feel like a child again.. perhaps you could interview him again sometime to see his evolution and progress... and if anything in his mind has changed...
Is it tragic? They found out their brother that was obsessed with their daughter, his own niece, and was attracted to children. They needed to protect her and having him around is not safe for her and makes them uncomfy and they probably wonder like wow if he wouldn’t of been exposed and spent more time with our daughter, he might of hurt her. As a parents, your only goal is to protect your children even if it means never talking to your brother again. It is sad but I would of done the same as them.
@@iamjay6112Hey Jay I have a question. When you described the interaction with your niece you said you had no sexual or romantic attraction to her. Are you only emotionally attracted to children? Do you have any sexual attraction at all to say a hot 20 year old female. Are you Asexual? I know these questions are very personal and I’m not asking them to be disrespectful in any way. I’m just trying to get a better understanding. Thanks.
@@iamjay6112 I appreciate your response. I was a little confused.
Same. I curious to see what else he had to say for himself, in audio form
@@iamjay6112 I think you were not being totally honest with yourself, i know that because i suffer with limerence and the way you're describing your attachment is quite similar.. the fact is, if you think about someone, anyone, most of the time then it's unhealthy.. and if it's a child as in your case, that's just a huge sign, you can't ignore it and justify it to yourself. the only way, is no contact. the woman who outed you did you a favor, just avoid children completely because that's the healthiest boundary you can create :)
You are awesome. These Pedophile people need to keep all to themselves. Keep in a secret for life. NEVER hurt a child. If anyone hurts a child, the Pedophile should be in prison for LIFE. No letting them out because they are born that way. They will do this again and again.
How exactly is "keeping in a secret" going to help them not hurt children? You are completely missing the bigger picture here. They need to be able to come forward and be met with compassion in order to receive the help that they need. They need to be able to feel safe enough to ask for help.
wow @karenbochinski talk about missing the point...
anyone who locks up a person for life for non murder should leave America. We do not want you.
These "people?" I don't wish you could understand!??? 😢😢GL and God speed
@@maarleyjedermann3174 did legalizing drugs help the drug epidemic or make it worse?
I would never understand it’s not ok and it’s a horrible thing
It's a horrible thing having to suffer through an existance, where you can never meet your needs, because it would mean causing harm and it's a horrible thing being forced to suffer silently and alone on top of that, because no one is willing to understand.
Do you have kids?
Eww ya they need help or stay locked up!!
@@karinab8552 a lack of understanding is a big part of the problem (and by that i mean understanding how it happens, not necessarily destigmatising it but more so more educational materials challenging the black and white general perspective of it).
" it’s not ok and it’s a horrible thing"←That is a bigoted pedophobic opinion. Not a fact. And you don't want to understand because you are a bigot. Same reason homophobes and racist and other bigots REFUSE to understand on purpose to keep being bigots.
1:13:12 wtf, do not talk to your kid like this. Talk to them throughout their lives so they know they can come to you when abuse is happening. He sounded like a predator himself.
That's literally what was happening in that entire section of the video though
No actually UA-cam loves videos like yours
Chemical. Castration.
Dr. Honda mentioned in the video, if you're angry, what actions are you taking in real life to create positive change? If you're just sitting around being angry and hateful, you're part of the problem.
Doesn't really work. Maybe do the bare minimum of research?
This kind of attitude, threat of violence and hate speech is the reason why people who realise their attraction to minors don't come forward to get help. You're literally creating suffering in the world, both in the small and in the bigger picture.
@diobrando4758I think this vitriol comes from you guys continuing to vote offending Pedos into office.
Go. To. Jail. If. You. Think. Abuse. Is. Okay. Towards. Anyone
before you hype up Germany’s forward-thinking pedophile help line (unreal), are you aware of the dramatic rise in child sex abuse rates in that country in recent years? not really something I aspire for our country to become
The articles I found on that increase attributed it to a few things- better investigative techniques and more reports; minors sharing the content among themselves and not realizing it's a crime, and Europe being a hotbed for that kind of stuff in general. Nowhere did the report mention that it was because of therapy for pedophiles, and I'm not sure why you'd assume it would be.
Just because more cases are reported, doesn't mean that there are more cases.
It’s weird that you’d be against the only current solution for this issue. You have a better idea?
Hello, a german here.
There is actually no evidence that the pedo help line changed something for the better.
I would say on the contray.
Well we have a left and green goverment that terrorise everyone with their woke agenda.
The green Party are the most welcoming pro pedo movement in our country.
The try to establish their pedo agenda.
But thankfully, the people starting to wake up and vote for the AfD.
Please if someone teils you the AfD ist nazi/rightwing/ extrimist.
That is fake.
The AfD has the highest members in jews and migriants compared to other partys here.
And they are the only ones that want to protect the children.
please look up why the rates are higher, it's actually due to more reports, a lot of them being minors.
Lets make this clear. Nomaps are "self proclaimed" how many lie in order to get attention and/or committing sexual predatory behavior...
I really liked your other videos that about relationships, personal growth, self healing etc. but let me say you are objectively wrong about this and Im literally shaking, sick to my stomach typing this. Defending pedos is the lowest of the low and you should feel sick and ashamed as a human being. You are no better than people who touch kids themselves. I think you and that guy you talked to should be in jail and never see the light of day again for the harm you are causing to society and kids everywhere. Your going to create a world where these people think it’s okay to be themselves and it is absolutely not. It is not acceptable to be a pedo or touch kids. I’ve always had a bad relationship with therapists and yet I actually respected you and your messaging. At least I’m reminded that therapists are even more sick in the head than the people they treat. I pray nothing ever happens to your kids but after listen to all this bs you’d probably be fine with it
Agreed
This world is becoming way too loose with the heinous accusations. "You are no better than people who touch kids themselves" is such a vile thing to say to someone, especially a therapist who dedicates their life to helping people, sacrifices their own time and mental health to better understand people and keep abuse from happening. You don't think this affects him negatively? Whether we like it or not, pedophiles exist. We can't wish them away and ignoring them and their issues is not going to stop them from offending. That may actually ENABLE them. Acknowledging the issue is also not defending the behavior. If this is too triggering for you, please step away. But think twice before throwing out accusations like that.
sounds like you didn't listen to the trigger warning. Please tell me when Dr. Honda defended pedophiles. Point to any specific instance. If you misinterpret what a therapist says and use that as ammunition to demonize everyone of that profession, that's on you. If you can't get over your own childish black-and-white thinking, and inability to actually listen to what people are saying, that's on you.
@@ohisee9173 well said
@@callmekirkland8 If you're not an expert in psychology, you shouldn't be making evaluations or judgments on how "treatable" it is. That is not for you to decide. You can offer studies, but you can't evaluate that yourself based on anecdotes or your personal moral compass (I agree that it's disgusting and unacceptable so please don't strawman me on that). You don't get to say "undoubtedly" either. There is doubt. He wouldn't be doing this if he felt more children were being harmed as a result. And why would you assume his intent is hubris and ego? Why are you assuming the worst of a therapist who has never demonstrated anything besides empathy, objectivity, and a desire to make the world a safer place for everybody? The intention here is to acknowledge the issue and address it because pedophiles will be emboldened by shadow, and choose silence and refuse help if thoughts lead to automatic life-ruining punishment. Do you really not see how THAT leads to more abused children?
Pedo - child / Phile- love
Literally, pedophile means lover a of a child. I think it's a perfectly apt and wonderful term. But, sometimes nomenclature needs to evolve for conversations to be had.
Plato: MAP
Aristotle: MAP
Michelangelo: MAP
Leonardo da Vinci: MAP
Guy who wrote Alice in Wonderland: MAP
Guy who wrote Peter Pan: Map
Wilfred Owen: MAP
Author C. Clarke: MAP
Goethe: MAP
Walt Whitman: MAP
Allen Ginsberg: MAP
This list is just an easy google search. It does not even scratch the surface of MAPs who have contributed greatly to society.
I don't think we as a civilization are sophisticated enough to discuss this issue. We're like Nazis faced with talking about Jews in a humane manner, or Jim Crow South asked to consider interracial marriage. We are just not there as a civilization. We are like apes walking around with our knuckles on the ground. I think the good doctor pushes matters are far as it can go in our socially constructed polite society, but even he--possibly under fear of death or cancellation--has to interject his own disgust and give his audience time to "notice their bodies".
Since the beginning of time, kids have had sex with adults, and that's not about to change any time soon. The good doctor talks about damage, but an in depth study needs to be conducted into how much of said damage is, in actuality, caused by society's shame fetish. If we could take away the shame imposed by society on the child and the MAP, one must wonder how much damage there actually is? The shame fetish is real predator.
Additionally, society needs to have an honest discussion about REAL harm. If we aren't smart enough to see the difference between an inter-generational relationship that is positive and one that is abusive, than our criticism needs to be of our own powers of observation and intellectual honesty. Again, this comes down to our fetish of shame. Get rid of the shame and 99% of the problems go away.
And what about the child as pursuer of the sexual relationship. Perhaps we need to call these kids "adult attracted minors" AAM, as any gay guy can tell you, it's not at all uncommon to find a boy cursing for a sexual hookup on one of the apps or the shopping mall bathrooms, or his little side hustle on Instagram. But this is a huge blind spot in our society, for we rather construct a boogeyman and go after a scapegoat we are comfortable with than actually turn and face reality.
The only thing you said that I agree with was being the Boogeyman. Y'all really are every parents worst dream come true and nobody wants to hear how bad you feel we want remorse and actions towards not offending. Everything else sounds like excuses because that's what they are.
@@Peace0fmindx You have no clue what you're talking about.
You do not love a child if you sexually abuse them and a child cannot reciprocate what a "lover" is. Child lover in that context is an oxymoron. There is no beauty in betraying the trust of an innocent child whose brain or body is not fully developed to cope with such. You can romanticize it all you want, but all of those powerful men you mentioned are just predators. No child wants to have sexual relations with an adult! As much as paedophiles may want to convince themselves of that. There may be a discussion to be had about what age constitutes a child, but 16 years and under is a good general guide as everyone reaches puberty and maturity at different times, thus having an agreed legal age is best for their protection. If you want to argue that, surely you can agree that it absolutely is abuse to have sexual relations with anyone who cannot raise or birth a child! Sex is purely for the your species to survive and the pleasure attributed to that certifies the biological need to do so. I actually cannot believe you are questioning the harm on a child. Ask any adult who was sexually abused as a child by an ADULT, what the harm was. And nope, they won't say it's the stigma around the so called "fetish"
And I'll offer you this analogy regarding saying a child enjoys it, if I was a child under the age of 16 and I wanted to eat only icecream all day everyday because it was yum and tastes nice, would it be abuse to agree, buy it for me and feed me only that? Ridiculous.
There is literally a topic in psychology called 'language confusion between adults and children.' Research this and how it influences distorting a child's behavior, and how adults make it seem like 'a child flirting.' Children who allegedly 'initiate' sexual relationships with adults DO NOT EXIST. They are children who were previously abused by adults. That's all. Just an MAP camouflaging and rationalizing a baseless situation."
There is literally a topic in psychology called 'language confusion between adults and children.' Research this and how it influences distorting a child's behavior, and how adults make it seem like 'a child flirting.' Children who allegedly 'initiate' sexual relationships with adults DO NOT EXIST. They are children who were previously abused by adults. That's all. Just an MAP camouflaging and rationalizing a baseless situation.