Is Nigel Farage right about Putin's invasion? Sergey Radchenko vs Glenn Diesen | SpectatorTV
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Nigel Farage has sparked fury since arguing that the West is partially responsible for Putin's invasion of Ukraine. Does the Reform leader have a point? Historian Sergey Radchenko and academic Glenn Diesen debate the role of NATO in provoking Russia, Putin's motivations for the war in Ukraine, and the conflicting principles of indivisible security and the right to join alliances.
00:44 Has Nigel Farage got a point?
05:25 Putin's agency
11:08 Nato expansion
17:30 Mark Rutte
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That guy sergey is a complete liar! NATO was training ukraninan troops for over 8 year prior the invasion! They trained about 10 000 soldiers per year! By 2022 that created one formidable army of about 80 000, well equipped and trained to fight Russia (all by the way wiped out already). Also he said that Russia could have negotiated with the west...... they tried!!!! Russia sent letters to washington and nato headquarter with proposal for negotiations at the end of 2021. The west said f off.....Russia had no other choice but to react to this!
I think the real problem was build up of the Ukrainian forces in the East 2021 after the resolution of the Ukrainian gov. the same year to get back the lost areas by force. Increase shelling of Donbas at the end of 2021 and beginning of 2022 was pointing into this direction. Maybe it was only provocation but then you have it. 14.000 people of which most were ethnic Russians were killed between the coup 2014 and 2022. Nobody among the Western political elites cared about that. I also think that if Putin ignored that they would continue along the very long Russian border and inside of it too (Chechen wars come to mind). Seeing this the Russian gov. decided to do something about it. It is how I see it.
thank you. now i don't have to right this
To S. Radchenko - I don't know why you could not see the escalation coming while you were in Moscow in 2022, when I could see it coming, while being in London, since the moment Russia gave the US their ultimatum about Ukraine and NATO in the second half of 2021.
From 1991 to 2014 Ukraine and Russia were able to live peacefully. What changed is Washington inserted itself between them, despite knowing it would infuriate Moscow and potentially provoke military conflict. Moscow is of course responsible for its own actions. But this war wouldn't be happening if Washington had been content to maintain a careful distance. They were warned repeatedly from within and without what would happen if they tried to get between Ukraine and Russia, but they went ahead and did it anyway. The country that is paying the highest price for this decision is Ukraine, and that is unlikely to change.
Well, Ukrainians preferred a non-Russian controlled government. Agreed, that's what enraged Putin, so he went on to "liberate" them from themselves. Standard Russian behaviour, to liberate people into Russian domination.
Thats not true at all. Russia was busying itself assassinating Ukrainian candidates who stood against their preferred puppet, and hiking energy prices in order to browbeat Ukraine into submission. And how do you explain Putin's insistence that Ukraine isn't even an independent country, but part of Russia? You just going to ignore that? Or do you think if Washington didn't exist, he would suddenly recognize Ukrainian sovereignty?
@@jenniferlawrence2701 HI, this is not right. There were plenty of tensions between them. Crimea was always a sensitive point.
Agreed@@olgajoachimosmundsen4647
@@olgajoachimosmundsen4647 Theres tension between USA and Cuba- still insane if Putin parks his stuff in Cuba. As an American, I am SICK TO DEATH of the hypocrisy.
Yes. The BBC interviewed British security staff during the coup of 2014 in Ukraine. It was broadcast mid morning on Radio 4. Then buried. We are not exactly the good guys.
If u whatch the documentaries or reports on bbc or al jazeera from that years regarding conflict in donbass or ukraine nazi problem,u fi d different optics from what they saying today
All organised by the CIA to destabilise Ukraine.
We just don't have to the realy bad ones.
@@davidwestwater2219 are you kidding or just listening to the U.K. media
@@davidwestwater2219 Chagos islands ?
Who is this Sergey guy? Did you put him there to speak for the "Spectator", while giving you the cover of neutrality? So painfully obvious!
History lesson: Russia "annexed" Crimea not in 2014 but in 1778 from the Ottoman Empire when the mere word 'ukraine' was not invented yet.
Putin and Russians had been expressing concerns on NATO expansion since forever. What is NATO? Why does it exist after fall of USSR
What about the negotiations in2022 in instanbal where Boris Johnston stopped lezevski from signing the agreement reached by both countries.
Lezevski 😊😅😊
Totally provoked, NATO is moving further and further east.
Because Russia is a terrible neighbor which loves making mess in eastern Europe. Nato does not expand by force. Countries apply in order to be safe from Russia's aggression. Eastern Europe knows Russia and has no trust for a reason. Russia will never change. Ukraine is not even Nato member. It if was, Putin would not invade. He invaded because he could invade non Nato Ukraine. He wants Ukraine.
Answer one question for me.Why do you think the countries around Russia want to join Nato,it is simple.Putin is either attacking them or threatening them and that is why they want to join Nato that is a fact Jack.
They always say everyone wanted to be in NATO, well Serbia didn't.
I guess that's a lesson for everyone.
Exactly. They all joined of their own free liberal democratic will - after seeing what happens when you don’t.
Russia wanted to join NATO....it was rejected...😂😂😂😂...know why???!!. That would make NATO useless..
Sergey presented the issue as a countries right to chose its alliance. That was disingenuous. The issue is the US purposeful expansion of NATO to facilitate the provisioning of American nuclear weapons within a couple of minutes flight time from Moscow etc. In any case it does not matter what we think, it is what the Russian leadership thinks is what matters.
The US organised a coup in Ukraine in 2014. What is Russia supposed to deduce from that?
You have no idea how NATO works, do you?
Macron was recently calling NATO "brain dead". NATO was no threat to anyone in Russia, and all Russians knew it. All rich Russians kept their wealth and families in NATO or other Western countries (like Switzerland). The threat was of a democratic Ukraine to *Putin*, which became clear in the 2011 Bolotnaya protests in Moscow.
Finland has the biggest land border with Russia. Poland borders Russia, Lithiania borders Russia but Putin decided to invade NON NATO country of Ukraine which had zero chance to join in decades to come. Nato is an excuse. He wants Ukraine to become a part of Russia. It is about Putin's sick legacy.
Kosovo style?
There are specific reasons, Russia acted, how, and when they did. As both poroshenko and merkel pointed out, the kiev regime were building up and training troops, whilst continously shelling areas in Donbass, instead of honouring the Minsk agreements. Eventually the troops were amassed at the Donbass borders and by the beginning of Febuary 2022 seizefire violations grew exponentially, as reported by the OSCE. The intention was to storm through Donbass and retake Crimea.
Note it, how Glenn draws on endless references, whilst Sergei talks mostly based on his opinion, which is conveniently aligned with the mainstream narrative. You'd a historian would be more source-based.
Glenn Diesen is knowledgeable and logical as usual. Why to invite this another guy to lie through his teeth, I have no idea.
He has another opinion about the subject. Why do you call it lying? You don’t like to hear opposing opinions? Rather be comfortable in a bubble?
@@stephaniesurface8761 Everybody is entitled to have his opinion, but not his own facts. He's simply lying.
@@joshuapaul2022 what is he supposed to have lied about? Where are your facts?
He is funded by a US government funded "NGO" who also spends funds to advertise at the Spectator?
I have seen and heard that Zelenskyj tried to follow the Minsk agreement, but after death threats from Banderas and that the US was opposed to the agreement, Zelenskyj was forced to break the agreement.
Why was the US/NATO opposed to the peace draft in Istanbul in the spring of 2022 that the parties accepted?
We also know that the Russian troops who went to Kiev aimed to bring Ukraine to the negotiating table, and they succeeded.
Unfortunately NATO was opposed to peace then as now when Ukraine probably has over 600,000 dead military. Everything unnecessarily that could be solved if the US/NATO wanted to take the security of the Russian government seriously.
Back in 2008, the then US ambassador William Burns wrote in a letter njet means njet after talking to all the political leaders in Russia about NATO in Ukraine.
"The goal is NOT to win these wars. The goal is to use the wars to wash money out of the tax bases of the United States and out of the tax bases of European countries and back into the hands of a transnational security elite. THAT is the goal. To have ENDLESS wars, NOT SUCCESSFUL wars."
~ Julian Assange ~ Stop the War
Interview - 8 October 2011
This ends this argument ........
Why nobody is bringing up the fact that it’s and existential threat for Russia’s neighbours to NOT be in NATO (for as long as Russia remains imperialistic and retains its desire to re-conquer “the lost territories” in Europe)?
EVERYBODY should ask themselves this simple question. Does your wish for Ukraine to remain sovereign, outweigh your wish to avert WWIII, and nuclear holocaust?
We should all be very concerned right now. Russia cannot lose this war in Ukraine, as this means the end of the regime. They will not tolerate this, we are dealing with a nuclear power. Do people really realise what a precipice we are on? The stakes could not be higher and Farage is right, there simply has to be peace talks, anything else literally risks all.
my question is :do we have to tolerate the Ukraine's ambition of becoming NATO member WITH ANY PRICE?Do have Ukraine the right to ask us to risk a nuclear war just because she want to be in NATO? I think ,in final,Russia could accept NATO's membership for Ukraine (West Ukraine or Galicina) if USA will accept Russian,korean and chinese bases in Texas or Florida and UK will accept such bases in Scotland and Northern Ireland
Yes, except Ukraine isn't sovereign. Its run by the US.
For sergeys information, Russia negotiated with the west but west back stabed Russia
West owes Russia nothing and Russia is not Ukraine's master.
Vote Reform 🇬🇧 💪
Putin, since 2007, warned that Ukraine was off limits. And there would be consequences
Russia has been trying to find an agreement with the West for many years; 1990 “not one inch Eastward NATO”, 2007, 2014, Minsk 1, Minsk 2, Dec 2021, April 2022. The collective West leaders behaved like shysters.
Reform - to save us on many levels!
All the pleas by Putin to Nato were answered with a "it is none of your business". Ucraine had military exercises by Nato for three years prior to 2022. Get real!
Answer me one question.Why do you think all the countries around Russia want to join Nato it is simple.Putin is either attacking his neighbors or threatening them and that is why they want to join Nato.
Spot on NATO did cause this.
Ucraine startet the war attacking Donbas and Luhansk...take a look at the charts for artillerie fire from the surveillance mission from the OSCE a few days before the invasion.
In a word: "yes".
No
‘Unprovoked’ 😂😂😂 Lying media!!
Putin feels provoked by Ukraine's independence only.
NATO doesn’t annex countries as the Warsaw pact countries were annexed by Soviet Russia. NATO admits countries that WANT to be in NATO. How exactly do people think this “expansion” was forced onto Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia? What evidence of the “forcing” do you have? How also do you account for Sweden and Finland abandoning their neutrality after the invasion of Ukraine? That was their choice.
Exactly. It is pathetic how nobody here cares about Eastern Europeans, their rights, their safety and their agenda in all of this. If Russia was a good neighbour there would be no need to join in order to be safe but Russia proves Nato exists for a reason.
I don't recall a referendum in either Sweden or Finland. Nuland Biden Obama and co conspirators arranged a coup in Kiev. It might be that most Swedes and Finns preferred neutrality. Bribing and threatening a few politicians doesn't mean that's what Swedes, Finns or Ukrainians wanted.
Yes, Nato did provoke and cause the war in Ukraine. Nato wanted this war.
Why does nobody speak about Ukraine in the principle of indivisible security. Surely, Ukraine has the same rights as Russia to security. Whatever threat was there to Russia, it's purely theoretical, because they have a huge nuclear arsenal. While the threat to Ukraine is actually readlised
Yours would a very valid point except for the fact that the US organised an anti Russian coup in 2014. If you're unaware of this look up Victoria Nuland in Kiev in 2014. The BBC, amongst others, had some interesting stuff on that.
It does not matter if you or I think Russia is not under any threat.
It only matters that Russia considers itself under threat.
@@Kavala76 Mostly it's about Putin and his ambitions to rule Russia forever, and what Russia "considers" depends on the state TV.
Theoretical... when the US has taken interest in the feasibility of the success of a first strike.
Can Russia then place missiles in Cuba? That's theoretical??
You are correct, Ukraine indeed does have the same rights as Russia to security. Especially considering Russia's continuous aggression towards its neighbors. The reality is that Putin doesn't fear attack from the NATO alliance. He sees NATO as a block to Russian territorial expansion. After all, he's said it himself. He doesn't even believe Ukraine is a country. He says its part of Russia.
Hello, this is rubbish.
Thank you for supporting Ukraine❤️❤️🇺🇦
Those who suggest Putin was provoked ignore his essay 'On the Historical Unity of the Russian and Ukrainian Peoples' (repeated in the recent Tucker Carswell/Putin interview). Pre-invasion, last expansion of NATO (to Baltics) was in 2004. Russia annexed Crimea in 2014.
Putin also wanted to join Nato. Can you imagine Russia allowing Sevastopol to become a NATO base, the intension of our coup.
please provide the sentence where Putin claims Ukraine is not a sovereign country. i have read the mentioned and other articles and only found him writing the exact opposite.
Pootin' also said in the Carlson interview that Poland was to blame for WW II because they did not give Hitler what he wanted. So, Pootin's analysis on anything at all is suspect. He is a goon.
@@turquoiseowl Well, he said many times thet Ukraine is not a country all, and that Ukrainians are just "younger Russians". It's Putin.
"Russia is open to dialogue with Ukraine and ready to discuss the most complex issues. But it is important for us to undertsand that our partner is defending its national interests but not serving someone else's, and is not a tool in someone else's hands to fight against us.
We respect the Ukrainian language and traditions. We respect Ukrainians' desire to see their country free, safe and prosperous" - Putin essay [July 2021]
1. Have you read "On the historical unity of Russians and Ukrainians"? (quoted above)
2. Maybe you can point out where he threatens Ukraine. I see the opposite.
Oh… poor Pootin! He was “provoked”… 😒
Doubt he'll lose any sleep over it. Russia booming. Now inflicting retribution. Destroying UK and Europe's economies.
Grow up.
Farrage was right in 2014 (Euro Parliament) and is right now.
Russia did not lay down “red lines” which is a a typical catchet from White House rhetoric such as “Super Power”, “Unipolar”, Exceptionalism”, and “democracy”. But, Russia has been warning the US right since 1993. The process of NATO enlargement started in 1993 when the United States and Germany for quite different reasons decided that adding new members represented an appropriate response (Page 2 NATO in the 21st Century - 53- Final - February 15, 1999 to the changes in post-cold-war Europe) Madeline Lewinsky Clinton’s war crimes in Yugoslavia to dismantle that unfortunate secular Russian ally in 1999 in favour of Islam for pay offs and purchase of enormously over priced US weapons by Sunni Moslem Arabs and to establish the US’ biggest military base in Kosovo, was the beginning of the US armed conflict against Russia.
There was no treaty. Russia was naive and assumed that the word of a head of state is as solemn as a treaty. Russia learned, slowly, and so began to put Istanbul, Minsk 1 and Minsk 2 in writing. So this made Hollande and Merkel have to confess that it was never intended to keep the treaties Minsk 1 & 2 which, were intended to buy time to better weaponize Ukraine against Russia. And the head of the Ukrainian Parliament went public that Boris Johnson on behalf of the decrepit, war mongering, war lock Biden deliberately pulled the plug on Istanbul to force Russia to war and inflict a strategic defeat on Russia. Well, Russia no longer trusts the leaders of the US and its vassal states who have reaped a whirlwind and will have to face the consequences. I do not wish to quibble with you about the well established smoke and mirrors that emanated from the White Hice over the years. The facts are known to all who are not within the miasma of the White Hice and the “West” will have to face the inexorable consequences of their actions. Karma? We shall soon see who is delusional. However, if you want a preview, you could look up Professors Jeffrey Sachs and Meerscheimer on UA-cam, as well as George Mercouris, Scott Ritter, Larry Johnson, Ray McGovern, Judge Napolitano, Clayton Morris, Tucker Carlson, Kim Iverson, Yvonne Bartlet and others of your own lands. We, who are not part of the USAnian Empire have our own intelligence (not a preying mantis with five blind eyes) and media who are not subject to CIA, FBI, Department of Justice or direct White Hice intimidation and black mail to conceal the truth. Russia is engaged in liberating parts of Ukraine where the Galician (Banderas) Nazis with whom the Obama-Biden-Pelosi-NeoCon Crime Syndicate replaced the democratically elected Government of Ukraine (2014) and which right away commenced the ethnic cleansing of Russian, Russians and Russian History and Culture from Ukraine as per the referendums of those regions. This is analogous to the Liberation of Bangla Desh by India from ethnic cleansing by the US and UK backed Urdu-Punjabi Sunni Moslems of Pakistan (1971)
Going forward: Russia will fight to:
(1) Russia intends to put an end to the Galician (Banderas) Nazis who have been ethnically cleansing Russians, Russian and Russian culture and History from Ukraine since 2014 when the Obama-Biden-Pelosi-NeoCon crime syndicate replaced the democratically elected Government of Ukraine with these Nazis.
(2) Russia intends to defang Ukraine that has been weaponized by the US and its vassals of NATO and G7 to “kill Russians” and “weaken Russia” by de militarizing Ukraine
(3) Russia intends to ensure that Ukraine embraces neutrality and eschews NATO forever by treaty
(4) Russia expects to establish a US free buffer zone whereby US (and its vassals) missiles are kept a safe distance from Russia.
(5) Russia will liberate the territories of Ukraine that declared independence from Ukraine by referendum and opted to become part of Russia and were declared Russian by the Russian Parliament.
(6) Reparations for the losses that Russia has had to incur due to US, UK and NATO war crimes.
It's nice to see people writing things I agree with. Saves me the effort. I don't think reparations will be available. But Russia could charge import taxes on things from USA, UK, France, New Zealand and co conspirators for the attack on Russia.
@@MauriceWinn We shall see. Personally, I believe that Russia will exact reparations in kind through asymmetric means by employing US tactics and methods against the US and its vassals if cash is not forthcoming.
Sergey says Russia and the Russian people shouldn’t be identified with Putin, but when it comes to the former eastern block countries, the will of the leaders of those countries to join Nato are apparently 100% supported by the people of those countries. In other words, in the case of the Nato joiners there is apparently some kind of monolithic will of the people, bu when it comes to Russia, it’s crazy Vladimir who decided on himself and the people were entirely agains a military intervention. That doesn’t exactly match the motivation of the Russian army to perform so well on the battlefield. Sergey not only reverses historical facts, he creates the illusion that the people of Nato joiners on the one hand have a clear and outspoken opinion on joining Nato and Putin on the other hand is an isolated autocrat who doesn’t know what people really think….
You wouldn't think that Sergey Radchenko is some kind of historian, maybe a graduate of Kyiv University. Didn't even know that the Cuban crisis started with the missiles placed in Turkey by the United States. On the other hand, Glenn Diesen is not an academic for nothing.
Great to see Glen Diesen, he can give some insight into the "multipolar world" bloc.
Nigel is absolutely right, I don’t think NATO deliberately intended to provoke him, they just chose to ignore Putins concerns, a critical mistake!!
Glenn Diesen is correct.
Offcourse Farage is 100% right and everyone knows it.
So , Sergey would support CCCP in1962 Cuban crisis ?
Rodchenkos understanding of geopolitics is that of a 5 year old.
this Sergey Radchenko is realy a clever liar and propagandist. He talks very smoothly.
Nigel garage is absolutely right to say that and the project started just after 1991 and progressed with a couple d,etat till 2014 under Victoria nulan ,vice president biden and Co.younocovich was forced out and and replaced with boroshenco by c.i.a.kiev maiden .
Sergey says Russia could have “negotiated with the West”. It had been negotiating for thirty years, we are told. "The invasion was Putin’s idea," he says. Even if it was, surely NATO placing missiles minutes from Moscow had to frighten even Putin?
This problem was causes by American foreign policy , how many times do we need to be told .
Ask Victoria Nulands
Don't wear a party dress when you are doing an interview. Not only is the interviewer very young ,which does not inspire confidence, but to wear that dress which is totally inappropriate seems to confirm that the interview is being done by someone without sufficient grasp of the very serious matters at hand. Not going to continue with this to the end, sorry.
Pick up a Glenn Diesen interview elsewhere, with normal dress code.
Nigel was correct
The provocation went on for 14 years. NATO / the West/ the USA, foolishly ignored Russia/ Putin.
Silly. It's not debatable. It would be like arguing over what caused the Cuban Missile Crisis.
The latter is blind to the suffering of the people of Donbas since 2014, severe provocation to Russian speaking speaking populace of Eastern Ukraine ignored by a dark western media.
Sergey Radchenko starts off rude then talks rot. 'Putin's talking points.' People that can't debate resort to petty comments. Followed by Putin could have negotiated. What? like the Minsk agreements?
The evidence is all there;since 1998 the EU and NATO sincerely assured the Russian government it's respect for the neutrality of the Ukraine.Following the 2014 agreement between the Ukrainian government and the EU an opposition coup toppled the government The following day the USA recognized the new provisional administration; none of these facts are secret or hard to get.What the problem is the western block appear to think that because there's a macdonalds in Moscow alongside various designer outlets and businesses the Russian outlook on it's mainstream relationship with the west has fundamentally altered; with the betrayal of the neutrality agreement the hawks in Moscow were proven correct.The Russian pscycological perspective of it's place in the world has altered little in the last 3-4 hundred years they generally persue the same geo- political objectives no matter what government is in power and the old school politicians knew that.If our own governments have decided to use fake morality to design foreign policy then we are in for a rocky ride.
It is disingenuous to claim that there were no agreements from the US that NATO would not expand one inch eastwards, the Americans through James Baker "gave" a verbal commitment to Gorbachev (who was naive or purposely ignored to get it in writing) not expand eastwards.
Just because thwy are "Putin's Talking Points" this does not mean they are untrue. In short, Putin spoke the truth in his talking points. Also, while Ukraine was not in NATO in 2022, NATO was very much in Ukraine.
US ambassador to Russia, William Burns in a memo in 2008:
"Ukraine and Georgia’s NATO aspirations not only touch a raw nerve in Russia, they engender serious concerns about the consequences for stability in the region. Not only does Russia perceive encirclement, and efforts to undermine Russia’s influence in the region, but it also fears unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences which would seriously affect Russian security interests. Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face."
Until the Russians invaded and now the majority of Russian Ukranians back Ukraine. This is especially true of the younger generations than those who grew up in the USSR granted.
@@aidy6000 bet you fell for the NeoCon propaganda about Iraqi WMD.
Ukraine destroyed itself with the NeoCon/ Victoria Nuland backed coup.
This is just another NeoCon disaster like Syria Libya Iraq and Afghanistan.
No more NeoCon wars!
I'm pretty sure that memo was leaked by Assange, it was meant to be classified. Assange then spent 14 years in confinement for daring to publish the truth. Western values.
@@aidy6000 what is the cost in Ukraine today of openly supporting Russia?
And we only have access to this memo because of Julian Assange and WikiLeaks
Also l think everyone is ignoring the fact is Putin is loved in Russia, the Russian people see the west as the aggressors and are all prepared to fight to protect the motherland……. I am an Australian and my colleagues all see the West at fault.
Putin stop attacking neighbors and threatening them and they want be wanting to join Nato.Putin all this mess is your fault you have brainwashed the people of Russia.
Rather than wasting money on Ukraine, the UK should spend money on Britain to improve roads, health service other infrastructure.
@shakyabhattacharjee9100 not poseble... Bomb mony is in diferent pocked. You just need to admit that NHS must be privatised...
I’m stunned we are debating whether potentially having Ukraine join NATO was a provocation to Russian or not.
Especially when that would be such a provocation that if anything would force the Russians to use their nuclear weapons, that would be it, that would be the thing.
American Nuclear weapons 5 minutes from Moscow is the issue. Ukraine politicts/gov/military are infested with Neo Nazis. If you think it's not a threat you're living in cloud cuckoo land.
Yes, even the head of NATO has conceded that Ukraine joining NATO was a provacation to Russia. Putin warned Bush in 2009 that his plans to let Ukraine and Georgia join NATO posed an existential threat to Russia. Russia experts such as Stephen F Cohen released a book called "War With Russia?" In 2018 which warned that NATO expansion right up to Russia's borders would precipitate war. There's no need for debate.
Well done Glen Diesen
How is this even a question? Anyone with any knowledge of the situation has been saying this for years. Ukraine has just been the conclusion to moves that go back well over a decade.
Anyone with decent knowledge knows it's much much more complex, and even Putin during Tucker's interview wasn't making it to be the main, or certainly the sole factor
And whole thing about NATO expansionism and West ''provocation''... it doesn't explain a lot of things. It doesn't explain why Russia is going through occupied territories, extinguishing any and all signs of Ukrainian language, heritage and legacy. Why it's actively persecuting Ukrainian speakers. It doesn't explain why Russia swallowed Finnish and Swedish membership. It doesn't explain why Putin likens himself to Peter the Great and his (re)conquests.
The idea that difficulties in Russo-Ukrainian relationship began in 2014 is a bit like stating that the difficulties in Irish-English relations began on Bloody Sunday.
In both cases there's centuries long, long history of passions, blood feuds, betrayals, promises and broken treaties.
Exactly. But The Narrative demands adherence to the evidence-free view that Putin is bent on erasing Ukraine restoring the Soviet Empire or even all of Western Europe. Of course, Sergey accuses Glenn of parroting Putin talking points. Such an ad hominem attack is a marker of a weak argument. It just so happens that those so-called talking points correspond more closely to historical reality than the propaganda disseminated throughout the MSM.
If Ukraine was already in NATO, Russia wouldn't have carried it its territorial war of conquest. The provocation was to for the West not to have given Ukrainian membership and not to have armed Ukraine to the teeth.
Radchenko is way out of his depth. Spouting Zelensky's lies from the comfort of a western place , hiding from mobilisation, disgraceful
I'm from that region. Radchenko was telling the truth, not "spouting Zelensky's lies".
@@gintasvilkelis2544 you are both wrong, NATO did in fact provoke the conflict and every event and communication leading up to this proofs that. You can cope and seethe all you want but that's the reality
@@askeladd60that's measurably not the case
@@mrg7405 which is why your side needs to suppress that information and label it a security threat while cowering at the thought anyone might say it?
@ClubofInfo-Circulation no one needs to supress information to show that Russia is the aggressor here
Glenn’s argument-esp with reference to Burns and spheres of influence-seems to me decisive. You can’t have one rule for Russia and another for the US with respect to nuclear arsenals and launch to target timespans. (Cuba and Ukraine.)
After the collapse of the USSR the purpose of NATO was made irrelevant. And yet NATO went on an Eastern expansion mode - bizarre❗️Asking for a retaliation no doubt.
nothing bizzare.NATO is a instrument used by yankees in their own interests.And US interests is to be the global hegemon .So US use NATO to break the legs of any potential competitor .Sometimes even the members of their team must be put back on their place.Russia,China,EU now.Tomorrow,maybe,will have to stop UK from becoming to strong.
Agreed
Really? Then why has the UNSC turned to it on several occasions to intervene?
NATO is now the UN's enforcement mechanism because it is the best multinational integration of democratic military forces.
@@dannyarcher6370 The UN? The UNSC⁉️ Seriously‼️
@@gopalramanathan7062 End your ignorance and go and read up on how NATO got involved in Bosnia, Libya and Afghanistan post the US-led invasion. They were all sanctioned by the UNSC. Sorry to burst your anti-interventionist bubble, buddy.
Why Mr Radchenko is not talking about 14000 who were killed by Ukrainian military forces between 2014 and 2021?
Why he is not talking about Minsk 2 which was sabotaged by Kiev regime?
Because it never happened.
@@alanharwood1636 Yeah, keeping himself in an echo chamber and demising any facts from the outside is much easer.
@@alanharwood1636 You smoke too much of a weed :)
@@alanharwood1636 your statement is based on absolutely on nothing
@@alanharwood1636 foreigners who observed Ukrainian aggression against civilians are also all lying?
Do some research, Spectator. The governments of East Ukraine, the Donbas region, asked Russian forces to come in and help them defend themselves against Kiev forces which were shelling Donbas and amassing along the border: it was clear they were getting ready to attack East Ukraine.....Again!
Horseshit
Do you have any actual evidence to support that claim ?
@@alanharwood1636 Look for what Merkel said about the Minsk 2. They not even hiding it anymore.
@@alanharwood1636 Its a matter of public record - all of it. Kiev even admits it themselves. If you did what the rest of us did - your own research instead of sitting there listening to the same people who told you Iraq had WMDs, you wouldn't be in the rut of doing nothing and waiting for people to spoon-feed you. The fact that you still believe the people who fooled you over Iraq is shocking, but that's up to you to deal with, not for me to spoon-feed you.
@@jackspring7709 Lol, a lot of waffle but no actual evidence. Unsurprising.
Imagine Scotland with Russian bases, airfields, nuclear capable missiles, bio-labs, FSB spy stations, Scapa Flow a Russian naval anchorage and then you know why Russia needs Ukraine neutral and out of NATO.
Putin wants neutral Ukraine because for Putin it means "Ukraine easy to overrun"
@@Blanka1100 are you Putin's mind reader?
@@Blanka1100this comment doesn't make sense. You either live in Putin's head or you're trying to paint a caricature.
@@Blanka1100 if Putin wanted to overrun Ukraine he could easily have done it when Donbas and Lugansk were starting to get bombed by Kiev's Asov battalions BECAUSE THOSE AREAS ASKED TO BECOME PART OF RUSSIA JUST LIKE CRIMEA BUT PUTIN INSTEAD worked out the Minsk agreement together with FR and GE and signed as legit by UN. G0 read my long comment somewhere else on this page. if you don't know what Minsk is about.
In fact, if Putin wanted the annex Ukraine onto russia he would have done it in 2014 because at that time Ukraine was not as strong militarily AND was not yet "totally hyped with hatred for russia" !
Also, iIMMEDIATELY after the Russian forces went into Ukraine, IN FACT THE VERY NEXT DAY, Putin already proposed negotiations which then went on and an agreement was nearly reached in Turkey in which Ukraine promised to stay neutral etc.....(Israeli previous President Naftali Bennett will tell you ) SO TOTALLY DISPROVING THAT RUSSIA WANTS TO ANNEX UKRAINE.......But who put a spoke in the wheel? Boris Johnson went to Ukraine and told Z not to sign, that russia was weak militarily and that the West was imposing massive sanctions which would cripple Russia to its knees and that the West would support Ukraine in whatever way come what may!.....SO WHO ARE THE REAL WARMONGERS??????????????
Now of course, there is NO WAY Russia will give up the Ukrainian areas that have voted to become part of Russia (Donbas, Lugansk, Zapporhizia and Kherson) AFTE ALL THE BLOOD THAT HAS BEEN SPILLED - T O T A L L Y
U N N E C E S S A R I L Y on both sides IF Boris johnson had not stopped Ukraine from signing the agreement.
@@wolfswinkel8906 It is Russia which created Putin,not the opposte. Russia is always more or less the same. Excuses are excuses. Bully's logic is well known. "You made me do this" victim blaming.
Boris Johnson must be held accountable
_Putin_ should be held accountable.
@gintasvilkelis2544 you should start reading something other then CNN and like😂😂😂
@@Treasure_hunter_21 I don't follow CNN. I live in this part of the world, and most of my news sources are much closer to where these events are taking place.
In contrast, what you are doing, is unwittingly parroting the Russian propaganda narrative - without being aware that this is what you are doing.
Completely agree, as well as the EU guarantors of the maidan deal. As well as Nuland, Macron etc
@gintasvilkelis2544 Your mom should be held accountable for having an idiot child
Yes, you don't have to be a mi5 or 6 agent to see it, this is all down to the Americans since 93 .
And the UK.
Sergei Radchenko's style and 'substance' would have been an excellent fit for the US Presidential debate.
Glen has arguments, the other guys has babble and bluster.
Your opinion... meh
Exactly. Obviously the guy is a rebel Russian who’s now wants to prove more “British” than the British themselves.
The Global South, where most of the world live, agree with Glenn. Sergey thinks Putin woke up one morning and, feeling bored, decided to invade Ukraine. When he said the special military operation was only Putin's idea, I immediately knew he was not worth listening to. The Russian nation saw barbarians at the gates, and knew collectively what must be done to deal wirh the existential threat.
@@gopalramanathan7062He is one of the usual suspects. Born in the Soviet Union but got educated (indoctrinated) in Western countries. LSE and Kissinger Think tank tells me all i need to know.
The guy is publishing at the spectator, why would you make this seem like a discussion which needs a moderator ? 2 people belong to the spectator
@@gopalramanathan7062His surname is Ukrainian so this would explain his point of view, regardless of the fact that his arguments rely on the people not knowing the full story beyond the western narrative.
That guest trying to single out putin for blame is not being truthful. Putin speaks for the Russians and majority of the Russians supports what he is doing. Some even blame him for being too soft with the West.
Has Sergei not read US Monroe doctrine? Has he missed Granada invasion, Panama invasion, Nicaragua Contra war?
Because Cuba does not have Russian missiles. And America has had sanctions on this poor little country since Castro took control of the island. Do again you don’t know history.
Putin wants Ukraine as a part of Russia. It is about his sick legacy. Ukraine is not even Nato country. Whataboutism is invalid here.
Ok personally think Farage has made a valid point . Should people actually read what he said.
Nobody wants to listen to or read what Farage has actually said. Opinions have been formed already, and the jury on Farage reached their verdict long ago. They're not budging. Personally I think he was absolutely correct, but most people would far rather smear him for his views on immigration than actually engage with his views on other issues.
It's what Farage is NOT SAYING is the issue.
He has adopted a position of appeasement by enabling and blaming the West for Russia's actions.
We are talking about a nation which invaded Georgia unprovoked, used Novichok against a Brit on our own soil in bright daylight in public, cut of the ear / electrocuted privates of terrorists to get them to confess (it doesn't matter what they did, this is barbarism) and weaponises migrants by sending them to the Finnish / Polish borders.
It's popular for Russian sympathisers to blame the west for the expansion of NATO, when we're NOT INVADING those countries, those COUNTRIES ARE JOINING US FOR PROTECTION AGAINST RUSSIA.
It is a failure of Russia to create a compelling alternative to NATO/EU, evidenced by their need to invade their neighbours. The have no legitimacy.
I was close to voting Reform but am repulsed by this stance. Russia is the antithesis of who we are and repeatedly behaved in a hostile way to us.
If you are pro British, you cannot appease Russia, we have nothing in common.
Why has UA-cam hidden by comment ? Literally impossible to communicate on this broken platform
He is Putin 's man.
He damaged UK with Brexit, financed by pro-russian oligarch, he will continue to destroy it by pushing Putina propaganda
It's a totally unrealistic view. Putin fear of Nato is just an excuse he uses to invade Ukraine. That Ukraine wants to protect itself against Russia does not fit with this 'Bully' Putin so he says Nato wants to threaten and invade Russia. Nigel Farage again has put up nonsensical argument. He may be spokes person for some people but he is deeply flawed in his decisions. Next he will get rid of NHS and offer Trump insurance business for new private health in UK-nightmare...🤣🤣🤣
Farage simply said that it was a provocation. That doesn’t mean he’s justifying Putin’s actions and in fact he has condemned them. Grow up and report the FACTS!
He WAS was justifying Putin. The rest was Farage backtracking because he saw what a vote loser it was. Grow up yourself. Acquire a little integrity and common sense.
@simonkramer9463……the word ‘provocation’ in this specific context is still, even when aired by Farage, is completely incorrect. NATO has very firm rules regarding embracing any additional country who applies for a place with it. As Radchenko says, the Ukraine is STILL to be regarded as a potentially legitimate country for admittance most especially in the light of the ongoing annexation. If there was a true concern that by Ukraine’s membership NATO felt more secure then that would be the way to go and that would include dealing with Russia’s tendency to territorial paranoia. NATO I believe continues to feel comfortably secure with its current ‘borders’ dividing the West from the East, a division nonetheless which is by its nature not very helpful.
Forage wrong
npc: forage man bad.
Well to be serious that guest needs to go study the war again
I would say that if Nato provoked an invasion by Russia, as nato clearly did as shown by all the facts, then the provoker is responsible for causing the invasion and to blame for all the consequences, not Russia who nato provoked. So i would disagree on that point with Farage.
I should also point out that Nato REFUSED to negotiate with Russia on Ukraine's neutrality, saying it was not Russia's business who Nato invited to join. Nato ruled out diplomacy and has continued to rule out any diplomacy with Russia demanding only a complete withdrawal which nato nato's knows is unachievable. This is nato's war and ukraine is their victim. as ukraine is being steadily destroyed.
Yes of course Farage is right, John Mearscheimer has been saying this since 2015.
How utterly unprofessional to open up without specifying what the comments of Mr Farage were or showing us what they were. Call yourselves journalists?
No journalism in this story
Like the rest of the British gutter media, they've been shilling for Ukraine and warmongering against Russia from day one. Scoundrels, the lot of them.
No such thing as Journalists anymore , they work for their masters
I agree, what is this trying to achieve. Farage is just trying to get some press from anyone who doesn’t know history, trying to make himself sound knowledgeable, and you, the spectator are doing pretty much yourself, the interviewer is way out of her depth with these two men. It’s like tiktok vs an encyclopaedia.
Back in the old days you had Labour and Conservative. Labour tended to be a bit more peaceknik-y and wanted to avoid war a bit too much. The Conservatives were the opposite - a bit too keen on the military, NATO etc. Both had their allied media outlets and both were pretty sane. The average Conservative thought that having a military might come in handy but didn't want WW3. Labour were a bit more skeptical but would come onside if the shit hit the fan. Of course each had a few crazies who either wanted WW3 (Con) or unilateral disarmament (Lab). However it wasn't too bad. E.g. Michael Foot backed Thatcher in the Falklands War despite being pretty far left and Thatcher only took military action after a lot of soul searching. There was, in retrospect, no real chance the West would either turn the Cold War hot and kill everyone or adopt unilateral disarmament and let the commies overrun it.
Now if you don't support immediate war with Russia which even the most hawkish person can see is very likely to escalate into nuclear armageddon you're a Vladolf Putler stooge and a traitor and need to be at best censored off all media and at worst Gonzalo Lira'd.
To invite an Ukrainian was a waste of time , the gentleman is absolutely non-objective … he is reading from „a note“ printed in Zelemsky‘s office
Radchenky should be confronted with Irak, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Lybia, to begin with.
Nothing happens in a vacuum. The EU's Katherine Ashton was campaigning in Ukraine's general election urging them to vote for the pro-EU candidate. Imagine the EU campaigning in the UK to vote for a particular political party. Imagine the Russians or Chinese being in the US's sphere of influence of Puerto Rico and how the US would react. We contributed to this mess.
Imagine being Russia's neighbour and suffering centuries of abuse , then having plummy foreigners victim blame you for being invaded by Russia
@@moneymayhem2000 that doesn’t seem to undermine the point made that you are responding to.
Meanwhile, Russia carried out an assassination attempt of the guy standing against their preferred presidential candidate. Imagine Russia assassinating the candidate in a UK election that you want to vote for. Also, Russia no longer has a sphere of influence in Ukraine.
@@nickthepostpunk5766 I would respond to you in full but youtube is hiding my comments (there is an asymmetry in people spreading misinformation, utterly ridiculous 🤦♂). Russia has no legitimacy. They failed to creating compelling alternatives to EU / NATO, evidenced by their need to invade their neighbours. EU / NATO only expanded east because countries joined SEEKING PROTECTION FROM RUSSIA. Indeed nothing happens in a vacuum which is why Russia's neighbours want nothing to do with Russia.
@@nickthepostpunk5766 I can't respond to you with any substance because UA-cam hides my comments. This is the platform we're on, there is no freedom of expression, it's all artificial here.
Yes! We need to be able to have a realistic debate (tell the public the truth) about the nuclear armed superpower who will not tolerate NATO within artillery range of Moscow
The US DID try to invade Cuba, by proxy.
It's known as 'The Bay of Pigs'.
Proxy? It was straight up CIA operation.
That was before the Cuban missile crisis.
And the US invaded the Dominican Republic, Grenada, when a hostile government appeared to be forming. The great powers typically do not tolerate the establishment of hostile governments in their sphere of interest and the intrusion of rival great powers.
US invade almost All LatinAmerican countries, some of the, More than once.
thats why United States statements against Russia are so hypocritical.
even now, ¿dont you remember how Donald Trump used all his power to destroy Venezuela´s goberment on 2019?
And that's what caused the Cuban missile crisis.
It's not about Putin for one thing. And it's the US/NATO/EU who engages in imperialism.
Joining Nato is not made by force. Russia expands by force. Joining EU is something people voted for.
@@Blanka1100 NATO is a money laundering operation for the elites in the countries who join it. It is also a smuggling operation as the host countries do not inspect NATO flights between bases. Civilian authorities in NATO countries have no ability to inspect NATO facilities. NATO is an non-democratic authoritarian military overlay to the democratic countries who join it where the citizens don't get to vote on anything NATO does or anyone in the NATO command structure.
So where has Russia expanded? It has only been involved with countries on its own border or inside it's country. The US border is thousands of miles away from either Europe, Ukraine or Taiwan for that matter. It's the US/NATO/EU that expands and uses fear tactics, bribery, sanctions, and military force to achieve it's imperialistic ambitions. The EU is an authoritarian org that is not democratic. It misleads people and interferes in their internal affairs from immigration to their traditional values.
This is all clear as day.
@@Blanka1100 NATO is a money laundering operation for the elites in the countries who join it. It is also a smuggling operation as the host countries do not inspect NATO flights between bases.
@@Blanka1100 NATO is a money laundering operation for the elites in the countries who join it.
@@Blanka1100 I keep trying to comment about what I know about NATO and those comments keep getting deleted by UA-cam algorithm. Shows you what NATO really is and how the elites don't want anyone to know what it really is.
Pretty rich that the Spectator is hosting this 'debate' without outlining what Farage actually said
Particularly when its rather glib Editor dismissed Farage's observation out of hand as abhorrent. I couldn't see what was abhorrent it then and nothing here is shedding any light on that.
Thought better of the Spectator, Farage did not claim Nato provocation was the sole reason for Putin's invasion. He openly said it was only one factor and yet this debate is framed as though he did. The narrative that Farage think it is the only reason is reinforced several times with no correction by the host.
Typical of the Western media of late. I was raised and born in one of the people's republics in the East of Europe. Never believed that the commie propagit about decadent, corrupt and war mongering West was true. Last few decades shocks me a bit that this old propaganda becomes more and more true by the day.
Well, it is the only reason. 🤷♂️
And lets not forget the nuland wiretap, and the "colour revolutions", which are pretty thinly veiled.
Is it that hard to believe Ukrainians preferred western democracy to a Russia-aligned kleptomaniac?
And her ''F**k the EU'' when discussing the American's choice of new Ukranian president with Geoffrey Pyatt, the USA Ambassador to Ukraine.
@@andyeasy3320 yeah, it's odd we are defending the sovereignty of a country that the us picks the leaders for.
@@andyeasy3320 Definitely something worth remembering...especially as Nuland actually received a promotion when appointed by the Biden administration. Just a very small correction though, it was for the office of Prime Minister rather than President.
@@curiositycloset2359when they say Ukraine is fighting for “independence” that is Orwellian for becoming another U.S. vassal regime. That’s fine but just be upfront and clear about it.
Farage is 100% right
nobody is 100% right, especially not an idiot like Farage.
Farage would blame Poland for provoking WWII. Every dictator needs excuses
Thanks for pointing out how he’s wrong 😂
Any Doubt ? Nigel Farage Is Correct In His Analysis.
@@MaheshMahesh-gz9fv Not. NATO did not provoke Russia
I am afraid you don't know what you are talking about
I suspect Farage is correct. But I suppose the reasonable counter-argument would be that actually, Putin always wanted to invade Ukraine. And surrendering to his demands would only have encouraged him to move more quickly, and leave us less prepared.
@redblacktichy. That's all you could manage -- a bare statement to counter facts and reasoned argument? What a poor showing.
I'd say "provoked" is too mild a term to describe western action. Russians saw barbarians at the gates, and they were compelled to act. Nuclear missiles stationed in Ukraine could reach Moscow in 6 minutes. Putin had no intention of allowing NATO to give him 6 minutes to decide whether end the world. Neither would he want future Russian presidents to be given such a short notice.
I have writen at length on the legitimacy of the Russian speakimg regions to break away in 2014, and their consequential right to ask Russia for help. But nowadays, UT has been censoring me severely, and so I'd leave this matter at that for now.
None
Farage made a genuine point that we provoked the war, but also that Putin is responsible for his action and must be resisted. This is an important part of an informed democratic debate. What is deeply disturbing is the line taken by the conliblab consensus leaders that this shouldn't be talked about. Perhaps if we were in a total war and civilian morale needed managing as in ww2 if might be ok, but we are not in total war and are supposed to be a fully functioning democracy. Who will hold the conliblab leaders to account for undermining democracy by trying to silence voices they find uncomfortable with feined and false moral condemnation instead of nuanced debate and counter points.?
When Putin needs a war, he needs no provocation, he finds one or creates one. That whole series of his "small victorious wars" was to tighten his grip on Russia. Starting with the 2nd Chechen war.
Every bully feels provoked and it does not matter which excuse Putin chose in the end.
@@Blanka1100 Careful, or you'll be accused of mindlessly repeating the "corporate press" narrative, just as it happened to me. Ohmy, how devastated I am now...
Russia, the United State, NATO, Israel, in fact all great powers are bullies. Nothing Russia is doing today that hasn't been done by the aforementioned entities. There is just no righteous way to wield power. As regard this conflict, it's either it ends in a negotiated settlement or a full out war. I am not going to kill or die for anyone's interest.
Why is there such an omerta of silence and an absolute refusal to allow the narrative to be questioned? Because upon inspection the rational to push Ukraine into NATO falls apart and it becomes clear the balme for this war lies with NATO and particularly the Biden administration
Glenn Diesen, what a rarity, the Scandinavian scholar is not on grants from the pro-"Atlantic", or rather, pro-NATO think tanks, not like most speakers on this topic in Western European MSM. Very knowledgeable, correct, convincing.
Farage did not say it was NATO's fault, but that the expansion Eastwards provided Putin with an excuse (one among many). This is patently true.
'excuse' is for politeness sake. 'reason' is the truth of it.
Does it matter which excuse dictaors chose in the end? Putin invaded because he could and wanted to. Nato has nothing to do with it. Ukraine is not even Nato country and had zero chance to join in decades to come.
@@Blanka1100 Bay of Pigs. Look it up. Very nice this time of year.
It is NATO fault though.
the one who waid Nato-s Expantion will cause this war, wasnt Farage, But Bredzinsky, and Kissinger predicted that since 1990´s
Glenn Diesen is correct. 👏 Zelenski should have made the agreement in 2022. But Unfortunaly US stopped it.
The US is not really interested in war either, they didn't want it. The Russian demands that arose during the peace talks in Istanbul were just as unacceptable to the Ukrainian leadership as Putin's current peace conditions. There was no chance of making peace in 2022, Putin wanted too much.
Rather, Zelensky should have sought to avoid war with Russia. The Minsk agreement should have been implemented and NATO accession removed from the Ukrainian constitution. With this, they could have expressed their desire for reconciliation towards Russia and Ukraine would not have lost anything.
probably more accurate to say _goaded_ than _provoked_
Not sure why Sergey is so anti Putin; could it be that he is trying to protect himself and his assets in the UK from being sanctioned?
Victoria Nuland
U.K. and E.U. citizens will be told true sometime in 2100 .
If in doubt of how we arrived at this sorry pass, ask Professor John Mearshimer, or the various ambassadors to Russia. Ever since the reunification of Germany (where we assured the Soviets that we would not expand NATO eastward in recognition of their acceding to German reunification. It all started decades ago, not in the 2020’s.
Never forget that Russia was allied with the nazis at the start of WW2
@@proselytizingorthodoxpente8304 Nobody thought much of the idea of arguing against Stalin at the time, I imagine.
@@freeforester1717 This time around Russia has to make do with North Korea.
There is no paper signed not to expand Nato east and bs small talk means nothng so stop complaing. And who is Russia to decide about act choices of Poland, Baltic States, Romania, Ukraine and so on? It is not soviet backyard anymore. Get over it. Putin wants Ukraine as a part of Russia and he blames Russia's victims for calling the police because they were fed up with being abused.
It's true, Soviet leadership was criminally naive taking west's word about NATO not expanding east. But that doesn't change the fact that NATO have been expanding east ever since, to the very Russian border. So, to say that they should have kept negotiating is making no sense. The US did literally everything for this war to happen and to keep on going!