Canyon Stoic 4 - My Most Requested Review: The Affordable Direct-to-Consumer Hardcore Hardtail
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- The Canyon Stoic 4 has been my most requested Hardtail Review on the channel. After trying to get one in for years, I finally was able to get one. Today we take it out on a variety of trails in Sedona, AZ to see how this hardcore hardtail rides. Canyon was one of the original direct to consumer companies. As such, they don't have a dealer network, so you'll never get to throw a leg over one in a shop. This model has made them extremely popular for people who are looking for some of the best components for the price. Today we take a deep dive into this bike's ride characteristics and talk about who it's for and who it's not for.
For this ride, I was running 23 psi front and rear. That's 1-2 psi more than I run tubeless, but not so high that the tubes were causing the harsh ride. It's the frame.
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A few more thoughts:
1) even though I ran this bike with tubes for the review, I set my tire pressure to 23 psi f/r. This is 1-2 psi more than I would have run if it were tubeless. The stiffness I'm feeling is not from the tubes, it's from the frame.
2) as always, the GoPro effect is real and it makes the trail look far flatter than it is.
3) I really struggled to feel confident on this bike at speed. The geo wants a faster speed, and the geo works better at speed, but the harsh frame made it deflect and not hold a line well at all. The steering want nervous at speed, but the traction/confidence was very nervous. The faster I went, the rougher it got, the less in control I was, and the less confident I felt on it. A smoother trails would definitely allow me to open it up more. The desert is not the right place for this bike. This bike really needs smoother trails than I have access to in Sedona.
4) please keep the discussion civil. I know some people have some very strong feelings about this bike, but personal attacks, insults, and bullying will not be tolerated.
5) to me, the most important part of a hardtail is the frame and how it rides, not the components it has on it. For that reason, my reviews focus far more on ride feel than component selection.
6) I really had high expectations for this bike after seeing it online and on my stand. It's still a great value for the price, but I felt let down by the ride experience, and in the end, that's what it all comes down to. I know a lot of you had high hopes for this one too, but compared to the 80+ other hardtails I've ridden and reviewed, this one was missing something in that ride feel. I feel the geo has gone a little too far toward the aggressive side on this one, especially with such a stiff frame. Keep your eyes peeled for my upcoming scharen cycles review where I ride these same trails. The back to back difference is staggering. That bike had so much more composure and speed and excitement on these same trails.
I don't have any strong feelings about canyon but in Quebec were I live it's been about a year or so since I've seen them in the wild, I'm intrigued by the pricing, seems fair.
Thanks for the review, I thoroughly appreciate that you just tell it like it is, unlike all other reviews.
yes thanks for being honest
I have the silver Stoic 4 with all Deore components. It came (in Europe) with DT Swiss M1900 wheels, already taped for tubeless. I just added my own valves and sealant, and it was ready to go. I also got it from a Canyon intl. bicycle day sale at 360€ discout for 1500€ which was an incredible price for this bike. I also replaced the 18t ratchet with 54t for faster engagement.
I absolutely love this thing. This summer, I've taken this out much more often than my full sus bosch smart emtb...
Thanks for all these awesome videos!
@@mattiniemelathat sounds like a killer deal, nice job!
“Maybe it acts like a bell to let other trail users know you’re coming“ 😂I literally laughed out loud
I just bought a Stoic 4 after watching your videos. It was the best value enduro hardtail I could find. Thanks
As a musician I am obsessed with gear. And I know many musicians that are obsessed as well. This man takes it to the next level with these bikes. I don’t even ride but I love some great OCD when I see it. Keep loosing sleep bud!
Im a guitarist, and my ocd is far worse for guitars and amps than bikes
@@hardtailparty lol my condolences. Btw I prefer stainless frets myself.
Reading your comment I had to double check if I am not seeing the comment from some guitar related video lol.
This video definitely makes me more confident in my decision. I just ordered a Roscoe 8 and the main competitor I was looking at was the Stoic 4. Originally started with a budget of $1500, but there’s some really good sales and these two really stood out as best values right now, as both were on sale for $1600. I’m brand new to mountain biking, and the Roscoe seems like a much better option for starting out on the green and blue trails, and flat terrain we mostly have. I really put off buying a bike for a while just from not understanding the practical difference in different components, geometry, and how they ride. Seems on the Roscoe the main weak point is the fork, which I can accept having to upgrade when my skills develop to a point where it’s noticeable. And with the sale price, that still leaves some room for that upgrade at a reasonable total cost. It should get here this week, excited to get out there and into the hobby. I found your channel and this review after I put my order in, glad to get some confirmation in my choice. Really enjoy your channel since I found it. I’ve also had to adjust to some health issues over the last few years that impacted my ability to do my main hobby for a while, wish you the best with your health as well.
Very interesting to see this bike in action. I wanted a Stoic but back in March I bought a Grand Canyon 7 from their clearance section for $1000 - went with it over the Stoic because it had similar components and the price was unbeatable - and judging from this review I think I made the right choice. The more aggressive geometry wouldn't have benefited me as someone just starting out in the sport, and despite not having the best fork it at least has actual shimano hubs. So far it's been extremely reliable and has been great for the trails near me in the CO front range.
The European version of this bike comes with DT Swiss 370 LN Ratchet hubs and M 1900 SPLINE wheelset.
I have also changed the brakes right away to a magura mt7 pro, it was plug and play. Works much better.
It does not seem to be dependent on the country, it seems like Steve got an old stock lying around for review. If you check the Bikeradar review of this bike from 2 years ago the component spec seems to match this one quite well (including the color, which is no longer available as this green on the Canyon website).
Owned the Stoic 4 for a year. I ride in southeast Michigan where we have many good trails including technical and flowy. I prefer blue flow trails for speed. This bike has renewed my love of mountain biking and I really enjoy it. Took it to Chutes in Colorado Springs and it fully came alive.
I have 3 HT's, I turned 51 this year and finally decided to buy a FS, my back and ankles have appreciated it!
I hear ya. It makes a difference, especially as we get older. I ride FS sometimes to give my body a break from these stiff frames. But even with a great FS, I feel more at home on my hardtails and I choose them more often.
I came for the bike, but stayed for the thoughtful and honest review!
Thanks for the kind words.
His analysis is spot on, & he’s actually being diplomatic about it: it IS a super harsh frame, but it's not the whole story.
Steve has ridden 80+ hardtails in for review, often riding them multiple times; & IMO he explains it vey well in the video but somehow people are missing it.
It’s not just about the frame being too stiff,
it’s that for its intended use it’s geometry still does not inspire confidence, which is a huge design flaw on so many levels
(this is the point that many are missing about this review).
For the longest time this was my dream bike, but I really don't like raw metal frames. I ended up buying a Ragley Blue Pig and it does not disappoint. I was really interested to see how this bike rode. Thanks for the review!
The silver version is painted silver, it is not raw metal. (I have one.)
@@mattiniemela I was wondering what he was talking about 🤔
Haha, i posted nearly the same comment. I ended up with the mmmbop! Love it!!!!
From a repairability standpoint, raw frames are amazing (which does not help much if the company making them does not repair their own product). But as the other guy already mentioned: the Stoic 4 looks like raw metal but is actually painted silver.
Great review, spot on! I ride this bike for two years now and almost immediately changed the dropper remote for a one up. After a year riding I upgraded the wheels to spank rims and hope hubs. The latest upgrade are the brakes also hope and a riser spank bar- it’s an absolute playful beast now, loving it!❤
Nicely done :) I've changed uncomfortable as hell canyon saddle for Ergon one so far and I want to change handlebar for Spank Spoon 800 Rise 40mm, but I wonder if it makes any difference from 30mm rise of the original G5 which feels a bit low. Can you tell what rise do you have on your Spank bar? Thanks.
@marcinkoodziej8072 I've changed the bars on my stoic to a 40mm rise Renthal Fatbar and it got a lot easier on the hands and body position. Night and day for vibrations, noticeable, but not revolutionary for the angle
@@antonkovyakh6581 and @marcinkoodziej8072 yeah, I've got the Spank Spike 800 Race Bar with 50mm rise, it's a very fun bike now, also changed the saddle to ergon e-mtb saddle. figuring people on e-bikes do tend to sit a lot more on their saddle, so it probably is more comfortable, and I can tell you: it is! 🙂
I bought this bike (the cheaper one) in january when it was back in stock. For a long time I haven't had any mountain bike. About 10 years ago stopped riding. Back than I was in bikepark stuff and DH. 26", 200mm of travel. Hopping on a modern trail bike is a game changer. Due to the big wheels, the long front end gave me more confident than an old DH bike. Incredbile. These bikes can climb. If you want to bike park half of the day and take cross coutry tour at the afternoon, you can do it.
However I changed a lot of parts and kind of get to level of Stoic 4. (Back in january it wasn't in stock.) Shitty SX drivetrain to Goldix 370 (ali DT knock off) hubs, Deore deralliuer, cassette, XTR chain, XT shifter, SLX cranks. Level T brakes to SLX 4 pistons with metallic pads. First thing was to go tubeless and put in an insert to the rear. The stock fork was a Recon. It was cring for the change, so I bought the new Lyrik Select. A decent fork is a gamechanger. Tires, dropper, handlebar, stem, headset and the saddle remain stock. Tires are a very positve disapointment. The trails I ride are gereat. Ton of grip. Modern bike geometry is like a revolution in the skiing when caring skies got popular. If you have speed and lean the bike it will be fun. I'm running with 0,9-1 bar front and 1,1 at the rear.
I guess the review could be disappointing for those who own a Stoic, but I appreciate the honesty. That and your level of detail is what makes your reviews so good.
It's definitely not a perfect bike, but for under a grand for the Stoic 2 it's been perfect for my kid. He's been having a blast this summer. The stack is definitely low. I put my 10 year old kid on a large, but he's already 5'4" and growing fast so I want the bike to hopefully last 3 seasons. No issues with the hub, cables weren't that long and messy on his bike. Once he outhrows it I'll get him something better.
You put a 5’ 4” ten year old on a large?!? Just wow. I’m 5’ 11” and went with the Canyon recommendation for a medium. Basically, I hope putting him on a two sizes too small bike doesn’t get him hurt or burned out on the sport.
@throbbinwoodofcoxley6830 Mate, sounds like an awesome dad who bought his son an awesome MTB to last him the next 3 years to have fun a build skills...."he's been having a blast this summer" says it all. Maybe you should have bought a small, you don't sound 5"11.
Like you have said before, there's a bike for every rider, but not every bike is for everyone or their style of riding. Great honest review as always! 👍
I remember eyeing the Stoic in the height of the Covid where everyone was short on bike stocks
Really glad I went with your recommendation on the Big Al, almost everyone that rides it is surprised by it's ride quality
Keep on with the great work 💪
I had both, kept the Stoic 🤷♂️
@@FenrisulvenQuad to each his own 👍
You can tell it’s a more budget bike. I picked up one of their carbon spectrals and it was so dialed out of the box. The cables were cut perfectly to size with those nice little clips, cable routing is amazing with the internal guides, etc. At the sales price I paid it was a steal.
Assuming you are living in the US , how much did you pay on custom tax?
@@AliasHSW there is no custom tax for the US they have a facility here in the US. It is about a hundred bucks for shipping though.
I have bought the canyon stoic 2. The fork was pretty much garbage, but I upgrade just the fork to a used bomber z2 that I bought for 200€. Now I ride everything with it and it is a blast
I would love to see bikes specced with adjustable travel droppers. They are a thing and would make sense for an off the shelf bike.
The Kona Honzo has one from stock
Love your references when explaining how a bike feels. "more a bull than a mountain goat" :D great video as always!
Excellent, in depth review Steve. I was contemplating the Stoic, Scout and Big - Al. I almost bought the Scout, then the new Ragley Big - Al frame came out a few weeks back. I quickly snapped one up, and have to say its a very capable machine indeed. Its transformed my riding. After watching your review I'm so pleased I did not opt for the Stoic or Scout. The new Big - Al is not harsh at all. Would be cool if you could test ride the new 2023 Big - Al frame as the Al is one of your faves. Keep up the good work mate. Excellent viewing as always 👍
Suggestion for an experiment vid : same bike with every stem length.
I tried a 35mm stem on my Roscoe (which comes with a 50mm) and I felt like it ruined the bike at low speed and made it feel way slacker and unintuitive. I wonder if that's what is happening with the stoic too.
Great idea for a video! Stem length makes a huge difference. Ive done lots of experimenting with stem length on my own but I haven't done a video on it yet. I think it's a great idea.
@@hardtailparty I'm considering changing my bar from a 10mm rise to a 35mm rise. I'd be nice if you could do a video on stem length and bar rise. Love the videos!
Agreed. +/- 20mm rise or length makes a huge difference in ho a bike rides.
Wow. Great comment. Nothing worse than a light front wheel. With new super slack geometries it's easy to lose traction and contol on the front. I experimented on my hardtail with longer stems, forward bar rotation and lower stem heights and it made such a dramatic difference. The only problem with longer stems nowadays is super long reachs.
Honestly hand position is the biggest change to a bikes feel you can make. Stem length, stem angle, bar roll, bar shape (not all sweep/rise is created equal), HTA, head tube length, spacers under stem.
I can slam a 60mm stem and make a bike 65 degree bike steer sharp and pedal hard.
Or go a 40mm stem, riser bars, and spacers under stem on an xc frame and make it easy to jump and roll steps.
I’m not saying you should do this, but you can. Buy the frame for the riding you’ll do.
But you’d be shocked how much you can change a bikes character. And how it influences that bikes character varies. Definitely recommend owning the same frame for 6 months and really experimenting. You might find a new way to love your old bike
Canyon must have gotten a good deal on the cables. Giving out a foot of free extra cable on all their bikes.
Hey hello, half a year ago I thought to buy the canyon stoic 4, but was sold out!! Because of that I bought a Trek Rosco 9, and now seeing your video I did well. Love me' Trek Rosco 9 drives great ! Greetings from Belgium
Thanks for the objective review. Harsh but fair. I got stoic 2 as my first hc hardtail so I don't have any other point of reference. Glad I bought it for 900 2 years back, it got me into biking.
It was very interesting to hear how it stacks up to other bikes.
100% agree with the vibration and ground tracking part. My fingers get hammered on rough trails. I know this is comparing apples to oranges but I never get hand pump when I rent full squish.
Things have improved with upgrades, I installed a spank vibrocore bars, and 160mm Lyric, tubeless with 23ish psi.
That definitely took off some of the edge. Maybe a 2.6 tyre set is also in order.
Overall I love the bike, it is super confidence inspiring, but quite harsh to comfortably ride all day with uplifts.
Not sure what to do next - new full sus enduro bike or to continue upgrading the stoic.
This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the Stoic as well. It was just a harsh ride. More tire volume is probably the easiest way to mitigate any stiff frame.
Yeah, bigger tires can help mitigate it a little bit
@@hardtailpartyI've switched the stock Schwalbes to DHF/Agressor, both on 2.5WT and you can feel it gets much plusher. Also considering upgrading the Alexrims to the Nukeproof Horizon as the stock ones are very heavy (I've read somewhere 2.8kg per set) and as we've seen, the hub is not amazing (it's a KT brand hub). Keep up the great videos! Love from Portugal
I have Stoic for three years and I love it. The most crucial is tire choice because the stock Schwalbe ones are definitely not good choice. I am running Continental CrossKings 29x2.6, and these are great for this bike. They give great comfort and grip in conditions the hardtail is usualy used. Hans Dampf and Magic Marry are enduro tires for fullsus bikes and they excel in mud.
Wild how a solid fork didn't do much for it. On sale at $1500 tho, I'd pick it up for a first hardtail, ride it out then swap the frame down the line. The opposite path I took with my Fuse...which is still in my stable and that I adore.
Great honest review Steve!!! It’s been awhile to see you disappointed or a bike that has that missing link. Having said that what a detailed description of the pros and a lot of cons with this bike!! Pretty informative for the viewers since it’s a direct to consumer sale. Good job once again and hey they all can’t have that special sauce every video would be the same but that’s what made this review shine and keeps the channel great!!!
I was heavily considering this and I’m glad I went with the Cannondale HT. Especially since I can bring it back to the shop I purchased it from.
I'm sorry but the panorama stole the show! What an insanely beautiful place, I wish we would have these kind of landscapes in France.
Literally one of the nicest places you'll go. And not far from the Grand Canyon. Wanna go mountain biking there one day myself. Not sure if it'll happen
Very diplomatic Steve. I could sense your disappointment.
Another great and honest review, thanks for that! They went for sturdiness versus compliance with the frame. I for once value that as a heavier rider. 1 more cm of chainstay woul help a lot, but I think they wanted the bike super-playable, but that is more subjective. Another cm of headtube would be great too. In this I think everybody agrees. Pleaselet us know whatever happened to that hub if you ever find what it was!!
Maybe try a dream build for the stoic and redo the test? Upgrading wheelset & tires and maybe handlebar should be an easy fix. Rest of the components are good as I understand from the video.
Thanks for the honest review
A few notes: my Stoic 2 came with 203mm front rotor and Shimano hubs, the bike has ran flawless for me for the 4-5 months I’ve had it. I almost feel like Steve got a problem child.
Got a Stoic 2 (with Shimano hub). Kinda harsh ride in my opinion, and the fork is not really good especially during winter (cold). Very good bike for 799euros though.
Just the same for me. It works flawlessly except for a cling sound the disk rotors make but it's fine as long as it doesn't slow the wheel down which it doesn't.
I've had a Stoic 4 for about 2 years now. I got it because of the value, my first bike getting back into mountain biking after a 10+ year break. I was happy with it when I got it, but as I rode it for a year I realized it wasn't the best suited for my riding style and local terrain. I ended up getting a full suspension with a plan to sell the Stoic. However, I kept the Stoic and converted it to a single speed. It's still not really the right bike for my terrain and I'll probably sell it at some point, but it's fun. I still think for the value it's a great bike, especially for a newer rider trying to get into the sport. It's probably not refined enough for a very experienced rider.
Plus 1 for choosing hardtail. Ive the grand canyon full xt build, sweet. BTW, well done on thanking walkers for moving aside, good man.👍
I’m just glad that I wasn’t hallucinating when I was riding this bike. It was unbearably harsh and I feel so vindicated that Steve felt the same.
It's one of the harshest frames I've ridden to date.
Alexrims are cheap, low quality and badly made, no way is that bike worth $1900.
“Never meet your heroes?” Thanks for the honest review! Looking forward to the cannondale ride review.
Still stoked on the bike you helped me choose! I just converted it to single-speed, and the bike lost nearly three pounds!
I purchased the stoic 2 for the frame for I had the same components from another build as the 4, but the ride is very stiff, and it took a lot of trial and errors with rims and tires as well as liners to calm the rear end down for the trails here in the northeastern US. also stem and bar rise played a huge factor for comfort and even grips. it is still a great bike and I loved getting nerdy with it and now I ride everywhere with confidence and joy. Love the review as always.
How much bar rise do you have? I am considering 40mm
Awesome video. I appreciate the details you talk about from the fork to vibrations. 😃👍🏾
Hi Steve, love you videos.
In August the 2023 model Stoic 4 was on sale for 1370 euros. At that price I didn't think twice to order it. I immediately changed the saddle and have recently updated to the 54t ratchet.
Although that most of my riding is done in solo on more mellow trails, I appreciate the potential of the bike, when riding with my friends, all on fullys, or when jumping on the mtb hopper lite ramp.
Maybe it is because i haven't ridden any compliant Hardtail yet or the 2023 build feels truly less stiff.
Anyway, I am still very happy with my purchase, no wonder at that price point.
According to Cade Media, Canyon had sold more bikes than ever but is making less profit then ever.
Looking foward see more great videos from you.
Take care
Thanks steve on your take.. i own a stoic 3 and what you said about the frame is on point, its harsh on your wrist and knee.. the riding position is agressive to.. and yea it like to go fast..
Great overview of the bike, as expected. A friend has been looking at this bike and its good to know it would be good enough for now but not the best to upgrade.
Doesn't sound like a bike for me, but You ARE the hardtail reviewer for me Steve. 👍
Man, Steve, you made it through all that chunk. That was some serious tech in the first few minutes. Nice job.
Thanks 👍
I had questioned my choice to get the Trek Roscoe 7 because component wise it's not a fantastic value proposition compared to the Stoic but seeing this I'm glad I did after all. I do value a good, complaint frame over components and the Roscoe one is relatively light and I also find it rather compliant and perfectly well suited for the terrain I'm riding. Only thing I didn't like as much was the reach which was a bit too short and it being quite twitchy on steep inclines. However I swapped the 55mm stem to a 65mm one and that improved handling quite a bit for me. I plan on upgrading it eventually with a better fork and I already installed much nicer brakes (Magura MT Trail Sport).
I'm glad you're happy with your purchase, the Roscoe is a fun bike.
@@hardtailparty Thanks! It is indeed. I just read your additional thoughts and what I find remarkable is that point 3 is the opposite with my Roscoe. It feels a bit twitchy at slow speeds (much better with the longer stem) but I'm very confident at high speeds and in downhill sections.
@@CaptainShiny5000 the term I use to describe the low speed lack of stability/balance is "wheel flop". It takes a bit more core balance to keep it upright at slow speeds, especially slow climbing turns. A longer stem will definitely help. It'll also get better for you over time too as you get used to the handling of this bike. If you thought the Roscoe had bad wheel flop, this canyon is way worse. I'm glad you were able to tune it out with that stem.
Typically, the slacker the head angle is on a bike, the more wheel flop/wandering you feel at slow speed climbs. This bike has a lot of that wandering sensation up hills.
@@hardtailparty Thanks for the clarification. In this case I'm really glad that I went with the Roscoe - I don't think I would have been happy with the Canyon at all. Looks like the opposite of what I was looking for when picking a Trail Hardtail.
@@CaptainShiny5000 you made the right choice. Despite having better parts for the price, the Roscoe 7 was the far better choice for you.
Great video! Too often people talk about the positives and overlook some of the flaws. It’s good to see you making a critical review, especially on those direct to consumer bikes.
This bike review really highlights why it's either important to have your own tools, or have a good LBS.
Thanks for the awesome videos Steve. I'm a proud owner of a stoic 2 that I've upgraded to my liking. I was surprised by canyon sizing, I usually run a large but the medium is spot on for me. If I was on a large I wouldn't love it as much. The stock wheels on mine came taped for tubeless and I had them set up in like 15 minutes. The Alex rims and shwalble tires work really well but yeah I do get the deflection effect off of rocks. The Shimano hubs on the 2 work great so far. Just wanted to add my 2 cents. Keep the great videos coming.
How tall you are?
@@FSX666SX 178 cm
I’m thinking of getting the stoic 3 but the only thing stopping me is monies but for the price at $1190 shipped to my door after tax, it’ll be hard to beat. If i didnt have so many expensive hobbies. She’d probably say go for it.
I really liked your review, in general I all like them but when it is something closer to my budget, I enjoy them more. Thank you!
I am 6'5" and this looks pretty awesome man!!! Thanks for sharing this with us!!! 😎
This bike was my first choice when looking for a new HT back in 2021, none to be found!! There were no Ragley's back then either. But CRC emailed me in the middle of the night, they had the mmmbop i wanted, and I got it.Thanks for posting on this bike, i would still like one.
Id rather have an mmmbop. Thats a great bike
I wish I waited a little longer, bought a 29" full suspension bike but I feel much more at home on hard tails. The Stoic in S with 27.5" wheels wouldve been the perfect fit.
Finally the video drops. Been waiting to see
I have the exact same Stoic as in the video and he is right about the hand vibrations. I ended up putting a Spank vibrocore bar and it eliminated most of the hand vibrations. Definitely recommend the bars.
I have a Canyon Pathlite and I have the same problem. If I ride over gravel my hands become numb in a moment
I really like the look of that stock stem. Very interesting that this was the most requested review, those DTC companies are really creating some interest. I am not surprised on how stiff it rides, but have no idea what they would need to invest to address that. Thanks for the awesome info!
Great review with informative commentary. Its also got me thinking... I bought a fluid HT during covid as it was impossible to get the Merida big.trail or specialized Fuse. Its marketed squarely as trail, NOT enduro and has modern, but not excessive geometry. I occasionally wonder if I should have waited for something slacker, however this review reminds me that I do ride blues 80% of the time, therefore it's probably the right bike for my needs.
These are the best bike reviews on the net.
How about a guide to hot weather riding?
Even though the Stoic has what looks like a reasonable headtube angle 65* and seattube angle 75*, the Stoic has a very long toptube while still having a very short wheelbase. Kinda strange geo! However, the Stoic (Deore drivetrain with Pike Fork) is currently on sale for $1500.
Yeah with 370 DT wheels...
I feel like the 4 in this vid was a return or Covid build.
I’m over 200 lbs and have an xl size Stoic with full xt groupset and dt ex 1700 wheelset with 2.6 Mazza tubeless tires. I also changed the cockpit to a stiffer one. For me it is a very good setup and I don’t say it couldn’t be more perfect but it would be whining.
So excited to see this review !
Great review Steve! I’ve been waiting for this ride review and it’s quite interesting to hear your thoughts.
So by comparison it sounds like the stoic needs more stack (med- 626mm) and the 65 HA is a little too slack for areas.
But when you rode, let’s say the mmmbop then the 619mm stack (med) and 63.75 HA somehow felt better/more alive.
Would this just be due to the overall frame construction?
Thanks a ton for your work! If you ever design and sell a jersey.. I’ll be sure to pick one up!
I have a stoic and I love it, I ride it from xc trails to Bikeparks in the Alps. It handels everything very well!
Glad to hear it!
I run 230-250Lb of body weight and choose a more aggressive riding style. Perhaps this frame is my ticket I’m 6-1”. Also I sat on a roscoe 9 and what very solid light feeling quality bike. Feels like a dirt bike and the bars were nice sitting down with bent elbows nice good reach with a large stack feel like the chameleon.
Good deal wonder what the hub did. Great review thank you.
I’d love to see you reviewing the Merida Big Trail 700.
Me too
Absolutely love your channel now, and always look forward to your hard tail reviews , I have no interest in to replace my ORBEA ALMA M50 as it rides perfect for what I want. But thT is shody of Canyon with the poor quality build and that hub. Again I have noticed a lot of no names components heading on bikes which I don't think is good.
If I had spend £1900 on this bike and it broke o would be upset and angry. But that's why I picked orbea as I still have original component and drive chain, brakes , forks on the bike from 2016.
Would love to see what the new Orbea Alma ride like on your channel.
Great channel keep them vids coming ❤
Couldn't imagine being able to ride trails like that wow
I got a stoic 2 and I agree, stack IS low, looking for a good rise handlebar, even when you run steep terrains is too low. I love it stiff so I can learn to drive better
First of all, THANKS! This one has been on my radar for a while. The price/spec was just so seductive. I didn't want to buy something I couldn't ride first, and I wanted something with sliding drops...so that kept me hesitant. My son has owned 2 Canyons and loved them, so that made me feel a little better about the not getting to ride it first...but still...
I do find it a little funny that the price dropped another $200 right before your review dropped.
This is such a good example of not buying a cheap bike. I have been buying a year or two old used bikes rather than cheap bikes out of the box for years. My first bike was an Altitude A30 and as much as I loved that bike the parts sucked (other than the Yari, I was pretty impressed with that fork considering the price) and crapped out pretty easily. After that, I have been way more in tune with the parts and how to properly inspect a used bike to get the most for the money.
There is just the Problem of having a different geo on older bikes and if you want that geo you sometimes cannot/coudnt buy it used.
@@quarkidee2878 - I'm not talking about old bikes, i'm talking about used bikes.
@@Sck519 I know. It's just very difficult to get a Fully with the right geo at that Pricepoint even used. I mean very difficult, not impossible, but very difficult.
I was expecting you to like this a lot more, after having had a good look at it online. Also interesting to hear your thoughts on the 35 fork. I have one on my current HT and it’s a bit meh! Looking at a Marzocchi Z2 as a noticeable performance upgrade, especially after going to Hunt trailwide for the wheels transformed the ride. Great review as always.
Steve, I know you don't normally review bikes without thru axel, but the new Marlin is a game changer in cheap hardtails. It's the most sold MTB in North America.
I would strongly disagree, but I'm glad you love yours.
I always thought frame flex and the suppleness of frames was exaggerated by reviewers until I bought my first steel hardtail recently. Thing feels like it has a bit of rear suspension. So crazy.
Yeah, lots of people think I overemphasize frame stiffness, but it makes a world of a difference on a hardtail.
Which steel hardtail did you buy ?
The ride feel varies quite a bit between steel frames too. Recently built up a Stif Squatch and it's by far the comfiest steel frame ive ridden (maybe down to having unique 'flattened' seatstays).
@@BigBanana55 I try not to paint with too broad a brush for frame material. some aluminum frames ride softer than some steel frames, but the softest frames I've ridden were steel.
I would love to hear more about the small builders, specifically the steel or Ti frames that are truly amazing for the way the tubing is selected and manufactured or manipulated with their designs to fine tune a very specific rider bespoke frame to match to their riding style and trail needs. Plus the riders weight is very important.
As we know a big company will overbuild to accommodate larger/heavier riders.
I love to feature those guys. I have more s.all builder content coming in the near future.
Reminds me of my Laufey. Great bike, got the H30 and just replaced the rockshox recon with a Yari 150 (huge improvement). Tried to go 2.4" for better climbing and automatically went back to the 2.6". It makes a huge difference on the descents but I do like the stiff frame, it comes alive when sprinting and hopping into things.
Stiff frames definitely have their place, especially when springing, pumping, and railing berms. This is noticeably stiffer than the laufy.
Was curious of what his review of this would be. The more and more of the less expensive-ish modern enduro-tail's he reviews, the happier I am that I went with the Honzo ESD.
The honzo esd is a rad bike. I'd definitely pick it over this.
the honzo costs more than double though?
@@isaacyip7168 yeah, but compared to a lot of the boutique and exotic HT's reviewed on here its in the "affordable" realm of bikes on here. But, even as HTP said, The Canyon is good value for money, makes a good 1st bike, if you're new but if you're looking for a truely special HT or a frame you can build on, maybe not the best choice.
I didn't buy my ESD complete and built the frame up my way, likely not the cheapest but I got to build it my way, and for less than 3k, I'd still consider that a deal.
Honzo is $3000 waaay expensive.
The hubs are DT Swiss or at least that’s what mine came with. 💪🏼
Got my Stoic last month, loving it so far. It is indeed a bit stiff and I’m still trying to figure it out. Named her Bucky!
Do you think bigger tubeless tires (2'6 onwards),would offset the frame stiffness? Thanks for the review!
No
That hub noise sounds like a 🐷 on the hunt for some truffles
This was on my list last year. Up against the much more expensive Kona Honzo DL, Radon Cragger AL, Rose Bonero and Alutech Cheaptrick.
I am glad I went with the nee Honzo DL with those rear dropouts - the bike is perfectly dialled for up and downhill and is extremely forgiving. The only change I’ve made so far is to switch out the brakes for Formula Cura 4. See if you can get hold of the nee Kona Honzo DL, it’s such a perfectly dialled frame, and despite having worse components, the frame makes the bike ride so well,
Thx! That trail looks great!
I hope someday you can try a Giant Fathom. Nice review and the noise of the hub scared me a lot
I have a line on one. Hopefully soon
It would be fun to see you review the grand canyon too and see if canyon can make a good trail bike!
I have stoic of my own. To preface, I dealt with similar quality control problems as you did, but in the Stoic 2 series. The fork would click when the rebound was turned too high up. I contacted Canyon and they told me to contact Suntour, but I'd just got the bike and didn't want to rip it apart and send one of the most major components on a bike away; especially because it was brand new. The average consumer experience should not be to receive a brand new bike and send off parts they saved costs on just to pass it onto the consumers to pay for. I think a lot of companies are doing this nowadays: putting nice, shiny components on a "budget" hardtail and cheaping out in the components that are overlooked by consumers. I love my stoic, but I'm opting for a different company later on.
I also had QC problems with my Stoic 2 purchased April 2022. It arrived missing the shock pump and assembly pasted. I contacted Canyon and they knew about it and offered reimbursement. Then I started to assemble the bike and noticed on both wheels that around ~30 total of the black spokes were scratched down to bare metal. I then took the tires off and noticed both wheels had nicks on the edge of the rim, down to bare metal. Then I noticed the seat had two inch tear in it. I contacted Canyon once again and the were responsive and sent me a reimbursement. Finally, during assembly I manage to put 3 chips in the paint with just the slighted bump from the handle of my wrench. We're talking a full chip down to bare metal. I've since done a full frame wrap with Miles Wide protective film. This is easily the most brittle and fragile paint job I've ever had on a MTB frame. I would hope this is more to the value nature of the bike and not representative of the brand as a whole.
I forgot to add that the SR Suntour fork was crunchy right out of the box, it felt like it needed to be serviced immediately. I chose not to deal with it and replaced it with a Marzocchi Z2 before the first ride. That Suntour is a boat anchor, weighed 2362g on my scale. The Z2 weighed 1907g.
I bought a YT Jeffsy and the Rear cassette wouldn't free wheel. Called YT and they helped me fix it.
It was just an out of place o-ring. Been happy with it since.
YT & Canyon are two separate & unrelated bike. companies;
totally different from each other,
even when it comes to our after sales service.
6 foot 2. Website says buy a large. What do you think? Does it run big or small?
Hey bro when’s the habit review dropping?
There were others on my short list for entry level/value then bam an unadvertised flash sale this spring $1500! It was a sign! Hopefully by the time I’ve upgraded everything I’ll know what kind of rider I am and I can engage Steve for a new frame consult I’m a decent wrench. So far I’ve shaved a bit of weight with new wheels and cassette/tubeless. Next up: grips, seat, maybe riser bars.
$1500 is a fantastic deal for this.
I have the Stoic 2, put a dropper post, change the brakes to Coder Rs, and made it tubeless and the bike is pretty dialed. I live in PHX and the bike shines on the flowier stuff more than the chunk, but I think it does well on both. As to the hubs, mine came with the same Alex rims and Shimano hub and even thought the engagement sucks, it's held up for over a year no problem. I was looking forward to this review and I'm glad I got the 2 instead of the 4. I'll try to find a used Pike and it should be even better than the Stoic 4.
I think the breaks are fine. I rode mine down black diamond tech trails without any problem. I think the lack of gearing and fork are more important to improve for my point of view.
First of, I love your videos. What do you think of the small denish company Kingdom that makes only Ti frames. Maybe an idea to review the Vendetta frame, I would be really interested what you think of that frame!
Great review! Thx.
Excellent review, from the most experienced and expert hardtail rider. As a HT die hard myself, your reviews are very educational.
I have a 2019 Roscoe myself, and even though it had a somewhat "aggro" geometry back then, nowadays it is a XC bike😂
When time comes to upgrade, I've seen that geometry and the way a frame's tubes are designed has a lot to do with handling, and stiffness.
My question: why is this frame so stiff?
Oh I’ve been waiting for this review. Great one Steve! I got the new Stoic 4 about a month ago. Too bag I can’t test it yet because it came with sram BD8 instead of deore ones. Pus the DB8 for sale and got myself a pai of XT’s 4 pot but the problem is I don’t have the I Spec EV adapters now. So I’m still looking for them adapters and the bike just sits there with the levers hanging 🤦🏻♂️
Alao the new stoic 4 comes with DT Swiss all mountain wheels. Dt hubs that can be easily upgraded to the 54t ratchet system.
Oh man, that's gotta be such a tease seeing it there, begging to get out on the trail. Fingers crossed you get to ride it soon.
I am 5'7" and spoke with a Canyon online rep who calculated I needed an XS or Small (WTF) for an UCI XCO Esteem CF hardtail. I have zero confidence in buying Canyon bike because of variable sizing. Their online calculator not provide any size suggestions despite providing accurate measurements.
At my age I’m an E-biker now…But still enjoyed your honest review 👍