First, I am aware that there are likely far deadlier TTRPGs out there. These are just the ones I most wanted to talk about, but please mention others in the comments! If I missed one you love, please definitely take it as a personal attack on you and your opinions (wait, no, don't do that! Shoot, if only my backspace key worked). Second, If you want to argue about the lethality of any games mentioned in this video, I'm probably not going to engage with that much. There is enough arguing on the internet already. I just wanted to share some games I enjoy that I happen to think are pretty deadly, and also talk about why I think games like that can actually be a lot of fun with the right mindset.
This sort of tension is why I absolutely love games like "Don't Rest Your Head," or explicitly Play-To-Fail games like "The Zone", "Dread", or "Trophy Dark." When the players are aware of what they're getting into, they tend to be that much keener on doing nail-biting actions.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 🎲 *Introduction to TTRPGs and Character Death* - Discussion on the rarity of character death in tabletop role-playing games (TTRPGs). - The challenge of killing characters in systems like D&D 5e due to various mechanics. - Emphasis on narrative over character death in many TTRPGs. 01:04 🗡️ *The Appeal of Lethal TTRPGs* - Excitement and thrill in playing TTRPGs with high character mortality. - The idea that lethal games can be fun and narratively rewarding. - Encouragement for viewers to consider lethal TTRPGs for different gameplay experiences. 01:59 💔 *The Balance between Character Death and Story* - The debate over character death due to bad dice rolls in long-term campaigns. - Potential dissatisfaction with premature character deaths disrupting long narratives. - Personal preferences in TTRPG playstyles regarding character mortality. 03:33 🎭 *The Dynamics of High-Risk TTRPGs* - The liberating aspect of high-risk character death scenarios. - High stakes in gameplay leading to memorable moments and stories. - The need for player investment in characters, balanced with acceptance of potential character loss. 05:22 🐾 *Analogy with Pokemon Nuzlocke Runs* - Comparison of high-risk TTRPGs with Pokemon Nuzlocke challenges. - The added tension and attachment in gameplay due to potential loss. - Nuzlocke runs as a metaphor for balancing risk and attachment in TTRPGs. 06:47 🎲 *Transition to Specific Lethal TTRPGs* - Introduction to a discussion on specific lethal TTRPGs. - Acknowledgement that lethal TTRPGs may not be for everyone. - The potential for these games to be engaging and fun for certain players. 07:21 🎯 *Easy D6 Overview* - Overview of Easy D6, a simple and lethal TTRPG system. - Mechanics of Easy D6, including health, karma, and hero points. - Discussion on character survival and the threat of death in Easy D6. 10:19 ⚔️ *Shadow Dark and Five Torches Deep* - Comparison of Shadow Dark and Five Torches Deep with D&D 5e. - Key features of both games and their emphasis on survival in a harsh world. - Differences in class structure, item management, and survival mechanics. 14:56 ☠️ *Mörk Borg Overview* - Introduction to Mörk Borg, a dark and lethal TTRPG. - Description of its grim aesthetics and high mortality rate. - The game's mechanics, including random character generation and inevitable character death. Made with HARPA AI
Mork Borg is my new favorite discovery. I know people say 'all style, no substance' but it's a great start for a group, especially one frightened by tons of D&D rules
Delta Green or Call of Cthulhu are two games I refer to as Grindstones. I call them this because no matter how you play it, every mythos thing you see grinds the sanity from the character until it goes insane and becomes the property of the handler and probably meets his or her doom shortly thereafter
Funny enough despite that Cthulhu has some of the best mechanics to empower players, pushing, luck, being able to fight back as a defense, perfect things to steal if you want to make a safer game.
Ever hear of Heart? It has mechanics i think youd like. Your character has different "beats" ... theres even Zeneith beats thats see the character sort of gain some game breaking power and then die in a blaze of glory. The player chooses to take the beat. Its meant to give a climax to the characters arc. Heart, very cool.
I've actually owned it for probably coming up on a year (got it in a set with Spire), but I have yet to actually read it! Clearly something I need to fix!
I soloed Mörk Borg once. My man Klort started with a Bow and Arrow but crap in the stat that USES the bow and arrow, no strength, and 1 HP. Literally died because a demon coughed too hard in his general direction. That was fun.
Great video I love EZD6 and I'll be running my first ever One Shot (maybe this will become a campaign) with it next week I have been really interested in Shadowdark so I will test it maybe in solo soon but Mörk Borg looks good too now xD
Great video! I’ve been planning my New Year’s resolutions lately and one of them has been to run more games. Shadowdark and FTD were both games I had as potential games I wanted to run this year, and this video sold me on them!
although its far from my favourite style of play, i’ve had a lot of fun with mörk borg. the aesthetics and lore makes up for the sometimes dreadful combats where no-one gets to do anything. (also i love your hollow knight shirt)
Really surprised of some omissions: Warhammer fantasy can be incredibly deadly and does the “bad criticals” thing really well. Traveller: you used to be able to die IN CHARACTER CREATION. This was removed for more modern versions but is still an alternate rule. Mothership!: sci fi horror…done so well. Alien rpg: same Forbidden Lands: dark fantasy all about exploration and rediscovering a dangerous lost world. Twilight 2000: immediately after WW3 ends in nukes. You are a soldier or civilian trapped in a war torn country trying to escape. It seems like the list given is just pretty generic D&D style games (and Mork Borg but that’s more of an art piece thought experiment) so I wanted to add a couple that branch out of that.
Honestly, I posted this video and immediately was kicking myself over leaving out Alien and Mothership! I think when writing this my mind got stuck somewhere between "Lethal TTRPGs" and "D&D Alternative that are deadly." As far as the other games you mentioned, while I'm familiar with the reputation of most of them, I actually have extremely limited knowledge and experience with them, but I'm glad you brought them up!
Games based on Into the Odd (like Cairn, Electric Bastionland, Into the Bronze) are often super deadly too, they all have you rolling 1d6 for HP and the weakest weapon does 1d6 damage, the thing is, HP in these are just luck, not health, so once you run out of it, you start taking damage in your STR stat, and for each STR damage you take, you roll to resist pain or you pass out immediately, which probably results in your death if left unattended. Some of these games have an awesome leveling system called "scars" that only active when you get to exactly 0 HP, so it kind forces the player to get beaten if they want to level up their stats. Also when you said EZD6 doesn't have levels it reminded me of one of the sentences written in Electric Bastionland "Characters grow more interesting, not more powerful" which is a cool way to look at this. Anyway I loved the video giving some love to the OSR games, I played Into the Bronze yesterday and we had 8 characters dying in a session with 4 players, still super fun!
I think this right here really sums up why I enjoy running Alien. It's just so absurd with how easy it is to die, plus that every creeping sense of dread is just amazing to play around with
Thank you so much for pointing out that lethal games can be fun BECAUSE of the chance of dying, not in spite of it. That is such a good way of looking at it! Maybe one day I can convince my players to try a deadly campaign ("c'mon, it won't take long ...?")
You hit it right on the head. Deadliness can be fun when all the players agree and you set that expectation. You can get some really wild actions when you free yourself from worrying about character death! Also have you tried Cy-BÖRG yet?
Good to see you again, it’s been a while. You could maybe add Dragonbane from free League. My first session TPK😨. I didn’t remember, in my long Life of rpg master, a situation like that, 😈. And trust me, I do every thing I can (Even dice cheat) to keep them alive….
Isn't Shadowdark based on OSR, not 5e? I know it's not a straight retroclone like OSE, but I swear Kelsey advertised it as being compatible with B/X adventures with little to no conversion. I'm a Kickstarter backer, but I've been waiting until we get our physical copies to read most of the book
You are correct, but I felt that many mechanics felt comfortable and familiar enough for 5E players to make that comparison. There is a slight possibility that I put it the way I did to hopefully better entice the 5E players who are reluctant to stray far from their game of choice... 😅
How had I not heard of there being a PbtA game based in the world of Kill Six Billion Demons?!? THANK YOU! God, I knew the creator of the comic made Lancer, but someone missed this completely. I can't say how soon I would have a video out on it, as I have a million other videos in mind, but I have definitely just obtained it.
Death generally doesn't fit in a lot of games easily ig. It can really throw a wrench in the narrative. I think 5e's approach to this sucks (ugh, so many things in 5e suck) - why even allow death in the first place and then expect a healing word cleric (to be fair, if you play by the dmg, cleric wouldn't have a lot of spellslots to work with) Seems like it might be better to just... discard the whole death thing? ICON pretty much does that. Closest to death is your character's resolve being utterly broken and them, with mental and physical scars, setting out to heal and such away from the party. Death can be fun for sure. This depends a lot on the system's flavor though. I do dislike osr dnd style which is "you have enough hp to barely survive a slight breeze. Not a second one tho." Places too much into hands of dice, yet kinda promises a long-term character. The whole "bad roll = death" fit a lot into more one-shot style stuff ig. To be fair, osr dnd at levels 1-2 and levels 3+ is basically two different gamemodes, considering how, starting at level 3, the ultrarandom lethality suffers a significant drop. Shadowrun is kinda very lethal, but you can burn Edge to avoid character death - character gets more and more wounds, but doesn't just die from a bad roll. Plus, they can regain Edge, provided they survive through a few runs alright.
First, I am aware that there are likely far deadlier TTRPGs out there. These are just the ones I most wanted to talk about, but please mention others in the comments! If I missed one you love, please definitely take it as a personal attack on you and your opinions (wait, no, don't do that! Shoot, if only my backspace key worked).
Second, If you want to argue about the lethality of any games mentioned in this video, I'm probably not going to engage with that much. There is enough arguing on the internet already. I just wanted to share some games I enjoy that I happen to think are pretty deadly, and also talk about why I think games like that can actually be a lot of fun with the right mindset.
This sort of tension is why I absolutely love games like "Don't Rest Your Head," or explicitly Play-To-Fail games like "The Zone", "Dread", or "Trophy Dark." When the players are aware of what they're getting into, they tend to be that much keener on doing nail-biting actions.
EZD6, ShadowDark and Mork Borg are all on my favourites list!
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:00 🎲 *Introduction to TTRPGs and Character Death*
- Discussion on the rarity of character death in tabletop role-playing games (TTRPGs).
- The challenge of killing characters in systems like D&D 5e due to various mechanics.
- Emphasis on narrative over character death in many TTRPGs.
01:04 🗡️ *The Appeal of Lethal TTRPGs*
- Excitement and thrill in playing TTRPGs with high character mortality.
- The idea that lethal games can be fun and narratively rewarding.
- Encouragement for viewers to consider lethal TTRPGs for different gameplay experiences.
01:59 💔 *The Balance between Character Death and Story*
- The debate over character death due to bad dice rolls in long-term campaigns.
- Potential dissatisfaction with premature character deaths disrupting long narratives.
- Personal preferences in TTRPG playstyles regarding character mortality.
03:33 🎭 *The Dynamics of High-Risk TTRPGs*
- The liberating aspect of high-risk character death scenarios.
- High stakes in gameplay leading to memorable moments and stories.
- The need for player investment in characters, balanced with acceptance of potential character loss.
05:22 🐾 *Analogy with Pokemon Nuzlocke Runs*
- Comparison of high-risk TTRPGs with Pokemon Nuzlocke challenges.
- The added tension and attachment in gameplay due to potential loss.
- Nuzlocke runs as a metaphor for balancing risk and attachment in TTRPGs.
06:47 🎲 *Transition to Specific Lethal TTRPGs*
- Introduction to a discussion on specific lethal TTRPGs.
- Acknowledgement that lethal TTRPGs may not be for everyone.
- The potential for these games to be engaging and fun for certain players.
07:21 🎯 *Easy D6 Overview*
- Overview of Easy D6, a simple and lethal TTRPG system.
- Mechanics of Easy D6, including health, karma, and hero points.
- Discussion on character survival and the threat of death in Easy D6.
10:19 ⚔️ *Shadow Dark and Five Torches Deep*
- Comparison of Shadow Dark and Five Torches Deep with D&D 5e.
- Key features of both games and their emphasis on survival in a harsh world.
- Differences in class structure, item management, and survival mechanics.
14:56 ☠️ *Mörk Borg Overview*
- Introduction to Mörk Borg, a dark and lethal TTRPG.
- Description of its grim aesthetics and high mortality rate.
- The game's mechanics, including random character generation and inevitable character death.
Made with HARPA AI
Mork Borg is my new favorite discovery. I know people say 'all style, no substance' but it's a great start for a group, especially one frightened by tons of D&D rules
Delta Green or Call of Cthulhu are two games I refer to as Grindstones. I call them this because no matter how you play it, every mythos thing you see grinds the sanity from the character until it goes insane and becomes the property of the handler and probably meets his or her doom shortly thereafter
you don't have to do TPKs in Call of Cthulu, but it helps!
Funny enough despite that Cthulhu has some of the best mechanics to empower players, pushing, luck, being able to fight back as a defense, perfect things to steal if you want to make a safer game.
Ever hear of Heart? It has mechanics i think youd like. Your character has different "beats" ... theres even Zeneith beats thats see the character sort of gain some game breaking power and then die in a blaze of glory. The player chooses to take the beat. Its meant to give a climax to the characters arc. Heart, very cool.
I've actually owned it for probably coming up on a year (got it in a set with Spire), but I have yet to actually read it! Clearly something I need to fix!
I soloed Mörk Borg once. My man Klort started with a Bow and Arrow but crap in the stat that USES the bow and arrow, no strength, and 1 HP. Literally died because a demon coughed too hard in his general direction. That was fun.
Great video
I love EZD6 and I'll be running my first ever One Shot (maybe this will become a campaign) with it next week
I have been really interested in Shadowdark so I will test it maybe in solo soon but Mörk Borg looks good too now xD
Being a DnD observer, I can definitely get behind these kinds of games. ❤
Great video! I’ve been planning my New Year’s resolutions lately and one of them has been to run more games. Shadowdark and FTD were both games I had as potential games I wanted to run this year, and this video sold me on them!
AMIGO I LOVE YOUR CONTENT, and you should get more views! keep up the good work! greetings from México
although its far from my favourite style of play, i’ve had a lot of fun with mörk borg. the aesthetics and lore makes up for the sometimes dreadful combats where no-one gets to do anything. (also i love your hollow knight shirt)
Really surprised of some omissions:
Warhammer fantasy can be incredibly deadly and does the “bad criticals” thing really well.
Traveller: you used to be able to die IN CHARACTER CREATION. This was removed for more modern versions but is still an alternate rule.
Mothership!: sci fi horror…done so well.
Alien rpg: same
Forbidden Lands: dark fantasy all about exploration and rediscovering a dangerous lost world.
Twilight 2000: immediately after WW3 ends in nukes. You are a soldier or civilian trapped in a war torn country trying to escape.
It seems like the list given is just pretty generic D&D style games (and Mork Borg but that’s more of an art piece thought experiment) so I wanted to add a couple that branch out of that.
Honestly, I posted this video and immediately was kicking myself over leaving out Alien and Mothership! I think when writing this my mind got stuck somewhere between "Lethal TTRPGs" and "D&D Alternative that are deadly."
As far as the other games you mentioned, while I'm familiar with the reputation of most of them, I actually have extremely limited knowledge and experience with them, but I'm glad you brought them up!
Games based on Into the Odd (like Cairn, Electric Bastionland, Into the Bronze) are often super deadly too, they all have you rolling 1d6 for HP and the weakest weapon does 1d6 damage, the thing is, HP in these are just luck, not health, so once you run out of it, you start taking damage in your STR stat, and for each STR damage you take, you roll to resist pain or you pass out immediately, which probably results in your death if left unattended.
Some of these games have an awesome leveling system called "scars" that only active when you get to exactly 0 HP, so it kind forces the player to get beaten if they want to level up their stats.
Also when you said EZD6 doesn't have levels it reminded me of one of the sentences written in Electric Bastionland "Characters grow more interesting, not more powerful" which is a cool way to look at this.
Anyway I loved the video giving some love to the OSR games, I played Into the Bronze yesterday and we had 8 characters dying in a session with 4 players, still super fun!
As a GM I always add this Content Warning to my game ads … “Potential Character Death”… because I want to put the fear of death into their hearts 😊
I think this right here really sums up why I enjoy running Alien. It's just so absurd with how easy it is to die, plus that every creeping sense of dread is just amazing to play around with
LotFP is my brutal go-to, but I'm trying to get my group into Mörk Borg and Pirate Borg.
Thank you so much for pointing out that lethal games can be fun BECAUSE of the chance of dying, not in spite of it. That is such a good way of looking at it!
Maybe one day I can convince my players to try a deadly campaign ("c'mon, it won't take long ...?")
Do an updated one with Rolemaster. As deadly as all the above 💀
You hit it right on the head. Deadliness can be fun when all the players agree and you set that expectation. You can get some really wild actions when you free yourself from worrying about character death! Also have you tried Cy-BÖRG yet?
I haven't yet, though I have a friend who is a huge fan and is planning on running it for our group in the near future. I'm really excited for it.
Games that makes me into a masochist.
But in the good *way*
I should try some of these sometime. The freedom you describe reminds me how they get treated by me lol
Love Mörk Borg. Been a Scvm GM for a while
Good to see you again, it’s been a while. You could maybe add Dragonbane from free League. My first session TPK😨. I didn’t remember, in my long Life of rpg master, a situation like that, 😈. And trust me, I do every thing I can (Even dice cheat) to keep them alive….
Isn't Shadowdark based on OSR, not 5e? I know it's not a straight retroclone like OSE, but I swear Kelsey advertised it as being compatible with B/X adventures with little to no conversion. I'm a Kickstarter backer, but I've been waiting until we get our physical copies to read most of the book
You are correct, but I felt that many mechanics felt comfortable and familiar enough for 5E players to make that comparison.
There is a slight possibility that I put it the way I did to hopefully better entice the 5E players who are reluctant to stray far from their game of choice... 😅
Would you be happy to check out and cover Broken Worlds (PbtA) ?
How had I not heard of there being a PbtA game based in the world of Kill Six Billion Demons?!? THANK YOU! God, I knew the creator of the comic made Lancer, but someone missed this completely.
I can't say how soon I would have a video out on it, as I have a million other videos in mind, but I have definitely just obtained it.
You forgot 5e hardcore mode by rune hammer. Lol
Death generally doesn't fit in a lot of games easily ig. It can really throw a wrench in the narrative.
I think 5e's approach to this sucks (ugh, so many things in 5e suck) - why even allow death in the first place and then expect a healing word cleric (to be fair, if you play by the dmg, cleric wouldn't have a lot of spellslots to work with)
Seems like it might be better to just... discard the whole death thing? ICON pretty much does that. Closest to death is your character's resolve being utterly broken and them, with mental and physical scars, setting out to heal and such away from the party.
Death can be fun for sure. This depends a lot on the system's flavor though.
I do dislike osr dnd style which is "you have enough hp to barely survive a slight breeze. Not a second one tho." Places too much into hands of dice, yet kinda promises a long-term character.
The whole "bad roll = death" fit a lot into more one-shot style stuff ig.
To be fair, osr dnd at levels 1-2 and levels 3+ is basically two different gamemodes, considering how, starting at level 3, the ultrarandom lethality suffers a significant drop.
Shadowrun is kinda very lethal, but you can burn Edge to avoid character death - character gets more and more wounds, but doesn't just die from a bad roll. Plus, they can regain Edge, provided they survive through a few runs alright.