BOONDOCKING with LITHIUM vs AGM - Which is Better?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 26 бер 2020
- Are LITHIUM BATTERIES BETTER for BOONDOCKING with SOLAR? Sharing real life benefits of boondocking with lithium batteries vs AGM lead acid batteries (plus charging setup tips) after full-time boondocking for 90 days with lithium. Choose a topic below:
1:05 Why did I choose Battleborn LiFePO4 Lithium batteries?
2:12 How much did the lithium batteries cost?
3:02 How much do the lithium batteries weigh?
3:32 Lithium vs Lead Acid usable battery capacity?
4:38 Lithium vs Lead Acid battery discharge rate comparison and test (what can you run)?
6:59 Charging Lithium batteries with solar vs AGM/Lead Acid
8:44 Solar charge controller settings for Lithium Batteries
10:11 Charging Lithium batteries on shore power - Converter / Charger for Lithium Batteries (Progressive Dynamics)
12:50 A typical day boondocking with solar and lithium batteries
14:37 Charging lithium batteries from engine alternator
EQUIPMENT MENTIONED IN THE VIDEO
Battleborn LiFePO4 Lithium Batteries: www.rvwithtito.com/battleborn
Progressive Dynamics PD4655LIV Lithium Converter/Charger: www.ltdrvparts.com/PROGRESSIV...
MORE ABOUT THIS EPISODE
This is a follow up to my lithium battery installation video several months ago when I built a custom battery rack for 4 Battleborn LiFePO4 batteries for my Class C storage compartment. Check it out here if you missed it: • DIY Lithium Battery Ra... .
HOW WE CHARGE the BATTLEBORN LITHIUM While DRIVING
• Charge LITHIUM Batteri...
SEE OUR ENTIRE SOLAR/BATTERY SETUP
www.rvwithtito.com/articles/o...
TOUR OUR OFF-GRID SETUP (pre-lithium)
• HOW WE USE SOLAR for R...
OUR FULL SOLAR PARTS LIST
www.rvwithtito.com/parts/rv-s...
CHECK OUT MY E-BOOK (100+ Pro RV Boondocking Tips)
www.rvwithtito.com/product/10...
MORE ABOUT THIS VIDEO
We’ve been snowbirding in Arizona for three months now primarily boondocking on BLM land or attending week long events where we’ve dry camped the entire time.
WHY DID I CHOOSE BATTLEBORN LITHIUM BATTERIES?
I did NOT want to build my own lithium battery pack: I was looking for a reputable ready-to-go drop in solution with these characteristics:
1) At least 400 Amp Hours in a form factor that fit my small class C storage compartment
2) Built in high quality BMS with all the safeguards (not external BMS)
3) Long life (10+ years)
4) Long warranty (7-10 years)
5) Zero maintenance
After evaluating several brands, sizes, reviews I decided to go with Battleborn.
WHAT ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT WAS NEEDED?
My RV was already set up for boondocking and off-grid use. I did have to replace my Converter/Charger which was not lithium compatible (see below). Removing the AGM batteries and replacing them with 4 x 100 Amp Hour Battleborn 12 volt batteries was the most significant part of the project.
CHARGING FROM SOLAR: My programmable Victron Solar Charge controllers were already compatible with lithium. There were minimal adjustments needed. Here are the recommended settings from Battleborn.
battlebornbatteries.com/progr...
#rvwithtito #rvsolar #boondocking
CHARGING FROM SHORE POWER - Converter Charger Upgrade required: I replaced my multi-stage Progressive Dynamics converter charger with the PD4655LIV lithium compatible model. Here’s where I got it: www.ltdrvparts.com/PROGRESSIV...
Lithium chargers compatible with Battleborn batteries: battlebornbatteries.com/charg...
This video also addresses these topics: Lithium battery upgrade, lithium battery upgrade for rv, Agm to lithium conversion, battleborn lithium rv batteries, converter charger for lithium batteries, lithium rv batteries, rv solar.
DISCLAIMER
The opinions expressed in our videos are our own or from a contributor. Before taking on any project or making a large purchase, we recommend you do your own research and consult a professional for advice. We are NOT liable for any damage to your RV or injury incurred as a result of following our tips, advice or instructions. We are not RV professionals or certified technicians. We are simply RV owners who work on our own RVs and have a desire to share what we learn with others. Be responsible and know your limits.
AFFILIATE DISCLAIMER
This video may include links to merchants with affilliate programs who pay us a commission on purchases made or actions taken after clicking the link. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program. As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. - Авто та транспорт
*Seems like a good solar **Generater.Systems** . I have not had to put it to the test yet in a situation without power but it has seemed to operate fine so far.*
Here's an article that'll help: www.rvwithtito.com/articles/battery-capacity/
After reading many reviews and watching a lot of videos, I chose this option for my first backup power station. ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxHypYDKHAN93Lp2RQpfvU_ksc70wJ00pt I was between this and a larger option that could power a wider range of items, but the price/size/capacity blend seemed right for this unit. Hasn't gotten a ton of use yet, but the build quality is solid and it charges fine via the Rockpals solar panel I purchased to pair with it. One thing to note is that the screen is optimized for a top down viewing angle, which makes sense, but this means it washes out at other angles - especially low angles. Not a huge deal, but perhaps a better option for the display could be used to provide wider viewing angles.
You, sir, are a brilliant asset to all of us living beneath the sheltering wings of photonic solar arrays which are bathed in luminous volts on sunny days!
Hi Brian, We bought a Arctic Fox fifth wheel last spring aimed at boon docking. We like you bought Battleborn batteries. We bought a ‘bundle’ from battle born that included 6 batteries, 2000 watt Victron inverter charger, digital multi controller, BMV 712 battery monitor and solar controller. All Victron. We also put 840 watts of solar on the roof. I talked to you back then and you kept me straight on not mixing voltages on a single controller. I want to thank you for that!! The Battle born people have very helpful with getting all of this working properly. We are returning home at present due to the virus issue that the country is facing now. Like you, we run the fridge on electric most days for 6 or 7 hours depending on the sunlight. The system has worked flawlessly!! I couldn’t be happier with the rig. When we ordered our 29 ft. Fox, I tried to get Northwood to switch the lead acid converter with a lithium version. That wasn’t something that they would do. Turned out to be a good thing. The existing converter will keep the voltages in the middle voltage range when hooked up to electric. As you know, lithium batteries do not need or even like to be fully charged all the time and are very comfortable in the median range. The inverter charger will fully the batteries if needed on shore power. I think I will put in another DC controller like you did and run 4 gauge cables back from my alternator and eliminate carrying a generator. We have been out in different BLM areas for 3 1/2 months and only used the generator twice to exercise it. I’m not as techie as you and was afraid that I would get in over my head. But with folks like you and Ray Burr along with Battleborn, it has been faultless. Thank you
Thanks so much for following-up and sharing your results. Interesting take on the stock charger...makes sense. I'm sure the whole boondocking experience is totally changed for you with your awesome upgrade. Glad you help! Be well.
Still new to this but my understanding is not too try and charge lithium batteries with your vehicle alternator. Reason these batteries (lithium) will try to draw more current than the vehicle alternator is sized to produce, which if done repeatedly can burn out your vehicle alternator and then you'd be stranded. This is what I've heard on other videos dealing with lotion batteries. If you want to charge the lithium batteries with the alternator you'll need to upgrade to a specialty alternator designed to handle the demands of charging lithium.
Eddie. Be careful using the alternator to charge Battleborn batteries. You can easily over heat and burn out an alternator. The alternator does not like to run at low speeds when charging. They do not get enough air flow and can overheat quickly. The engine should spin around 1200 RPM during charging to help prevent overheating. I remember seeing a test bench video where they were showing what happened. I want to say it was a Victron video. I know they make a relay that is made to only allow charging when the alternator is outputting the proper current. Also most alternators will not push out 14.4 volts for the time needed to charge a LifePo4. Because alternators are now regulated at 13.2 after they reach 13.8 volt. In the old days before the computer took over the car you would check the voltage at the alternator and it was a nice 14.2 volt. But they finally figured out that was causing batteries to over charge if held at that for to long. Now they have different charge cycles like a stand alone smart charger. My F-350 will hit 14.0 volts @ the alternator then regulate @ 13.6. So I use a solar relay that can tell the voltage between each side and can auto connect and disconnect depending on the voltage. This protects the truck just like having an idolator between the truck and trailer batteries. I found it charges around 10 amps @ 13.6 VDC to 25 amps @ 13.8 VDC while driving. Just something to keep in mind.
Crazy Marty
You always do a nice job explaining and the quality of your work is top notch 🤙
I appreciate that feedback. Thanks!
As long as people remain CONFUSED with "numerical states of charge", what he shows seems "WOW", but each are the SAME!
Flooded lead acid when it undergoes a "load" as he shows and it hits 11.7v, means it is at a 75-85% "'DISCHARGING' STATE OF CHARGE".
When his lithium battery hits 12.8v under that same load, it means it is at a 70-80% "'DISCHARGING' STATE OF CHARGE".
So those numbers, again, seem WOW but people simply do not understand what numerical volts stand for in each battery type.
Great video! I like the way you explained things. You took your time and gave your experience. I don't think I learned anything technical about switching to lithium, but I learned a lot about how beneficial it could be to me. Thanks for the video!
I particularly like your load-shedding approach with the refrigerator :)
Love your informative style. Your installs are my envy and I wish I had the time and patience to spend on really quality installs. Very good information!
Thanks a bunch for the wonderful feedback. I'll keep em comin!
@@RVwithTito No kidding PenHusky is right. Your wiring is like artwork. Take for example 8 mins 52 secs into the video... I paused the playback to admire the beauty... lol True story.
Thanks for the informative Video. Love the way you explain things in a simple and clear manner.
Keep up the good work 👍
Glad it was helpful!
Awesome! I’m glad it’s working out for you guys.
Yes. Working very well. Thx.
I'm so glad he explained Lithium batteries are lighter than lead/acid batteries. No manufacturers ever say anything about weight in their literature. 👍
Great, nice to see you are always making improvements!
Good job touching all the basics Tito! Like the converter upgrade and the running of the fridge on batteries during the day. I was recently at quartzite and would have enjoyed meeting you!
Hi Carlos. Glad you enjoyed the video. Perhaps we will cross paths someday.
Great video man! Perfect!
Wow Brian sounds like you got it all figured out, Nice job on the video. 👊👍😎
Thanks for continuing to upgrade and share. Very Cool
Nice video Brian! You and Jared from All About RV’s do a great job sharing your knowledge in a very understandable manner. Thanks for that!
Thanks. Yes Jared does a great job. 👍
John Sholian yes I would agree.
A lot of missing info here
Finally! A useful battery video! Thanks Tito.... You rock.
I appreciate that. Glad you liked it.
This is the best explanation I have heard about the advantages of lithium batteries I have heard on youtube in all the searching I have done for the past year. Thanks!
There are a lot of very good videos by some very knowledgeable people on the web explaining RV solar. But when I need/want a trustworthy, detailed explanation in terms that I can understand, YOU are my go to source.
Thanks for doing these videos Brian.
Thanks George! I appreciate that. Cheers.
Brian, thank you very much for following up your Fall Battle Born install with your experiences. It seems to me that the Lithium upgrade isn't exactly a "Plug 'n Play" conversion for ANYONE making the swap. Virtually everyone has had a similar experience with not recognizing when the battery is partially discharged (State of Charge @ 80% is almost identical to a SoC @ 21% due to Lithium depletion curve being flat until almost dead.) For some, it requires a new charge controller, for others it's merely a firmware update to recognize Lithium. But, new, high quality wiring with newly crimped fittings (copper isn't cheap!) and properly sized heat seals, a new battery disconnect (or two!), a new mounting platform for system additions (at least 2 shunts, right?), adding grilled ventilation for heating & cooling ducts is a little more than just dropping them into an existing space, tightening a few nuts and Viola! It's Done!!!
QUESTION: If using your generator- how long would it take to charge AGM's, and, Lithiums?
On a sunny day, how long to solar charge your AGM's vs. Lithiums on average?
Thank you again, Brian!!!
Dave
A $200 lithium converter can replace the old converter. Heating and cooling vents are not required with Lithium and Lithium units charge in about half the time as any Lead acid chemistry. One 500 amp shunt will serve his system and all types of batteries should have a battery monitoring system and at least one disconnect anyway.
Switched to LiFePO4 batteries in our boat six years ago.
The difference is amazing. Because they operate at a slightly higher voltage, everything seems to work better. Electric motors like pumps and particularly the anchor windlass, which is 1200Watts run just a bit faster, and pull less current.
The BIG mindset change I found is that with lead acid batteries you're always trying to keep them as near to fully charged as possible. And if say, at bedtime they were down to 50-60%, you'd fire up the generator.
With the lithiums, they're fine to go even as low as 5% so going to bed with them at 50% or even less isn't a problem. Even now it still feels wrong, even though I know it's not hurting the batteries at all.
Good point. Totally true about the shift in mindset...though I still like to keep mine at 50% or better. Gives me peace of mind knowing I have extra reserves if I need it.
WHAT A REALLY CLEAN INSULATION LOOKS REALLY NICE AND THANK YOU FOR ALL THE INTEL.
Thanks for the video...you made the comparison of Lithium and AGM easy to follow and understand.
You're welcome. Glad it was easy to follow. 👍
Great summary. Before we embarked on our Y2V project, we loaded up with 8 LionEnergy LiFePO4. Miss our AZ! Stay safe!
How many kw did you get with the 8 batteries?
Your ability of switching the fridge to AC during the day is brilliant! Thank you!
No need to waste good free power. Our fridge uses roughly 26 amps. Lately I've been switching it at around 82-85% and still getting a full charge by mid afternoon. Give it a try.
Yes you must be some kind of Superman with that ability..lol.
RV refrigerators been doing that for the last 40 years or so.
As usual great video and inspiration!
Great job and thank-you for sharing your experience with us!
Your workmanship is top notch I can imagine you building a competition car stereo system
Thanks. Never done that, but I have installed an overhead stereo system in a 1976 Dodge van with shag carpet.
I just upgraded two of my AGM batteries (200ah weight 150 lbs) with one double sized 300ah single battery (weight 69 lbs) with built-in BMS. I also replaced the convertor with a 50 amp/14.6v Lithium charger. So far, all the results you have shown in this video are exactly what I have observed. One other thing I did is to get the stick-on insulation foam to seal off the battery compartment. This is to keep the battery warm enough below the freezing temperature. My solar charging system has two 100w panels with one 2kw true sine wave inverter. The diesel engine's alternator will charge house battery while driving. This is a must if anyone is relying on off-grid RVing..
Which 300ah battery did you get if you don't mind sharing?
@@RVwithTito There are two brands: Ampere Time and CHINS. Both have same spec. Ampere Time is $300 more at $1,800. I found that out after delivery. So far, the Ampere Time 300ah battery held up nicely. It can be discharged at -20F with no issue. Amazon sells both brands. CHINS seems to have many reviews and mostly 5 stars...
Wonderful comprehensive report, full of good info. TY
Best explanation I have seen on this subject by far. Thanks from central Tx
FYI: I have commented before on how much I love your television, and the fact that it goes up and down. Just FYI I have recently seen those described as... televators ! LOL
Yeah. Lots of folks tell me "I want to see your televator" :)
Tito - I get the same thing in my Wanderlodge community. Five years ago a 42” LCD was considered big. Oh how things change! - ua-cam.com/video/cWllG7dtHJU/v-deo.html
I was wondering about the reason. Thanks for the explanation.
Great video. Very well put together. Looking to get a set up like this myself for our travels.
Another great video. Thanks for the follow up
Good presentation on the lithium batteries- thanks
You're welcome!
Excellent discussion on the benefits of lithium batteries.
Thanks. Glad you found it helpful.
And they’re not just lithium or lithium ion... they’re lithium phosphate! Like 4x the life and charging cycles.
Excellent video! I just found your channel from a FB sprinter van forum recommendation. Thank you for the excellent content.
biy eltric sprinter ban 150 mile ev range
Out standing video, simple
, showing what items can be used etc. not just amp hour talk.
Pro tip on solar use when batteries are in absorb or float. Turn on the electric water heater and hate it run from direct use. If you need domestic hot water, it will act as a way to store that energy because it’s energy saved that you’d have used at night.
The dump load is there for when the batteries no longer can take a charge..So the excess produced is captured for heating water...
I get most of my use along the Texas/Oklahoma border. When it comes to the water heater, I run it for about 25-30 minutes for the first day. That's enough to heat it to 120F.
After that, I only run the water heater for 5-10 minutes a day. The hot water tank is still around 85F when I wake up the following day, so it doesn't take long to heat back up.
Love your easy to understand videos Brian.
My favorite is your Tela- Vader cabinet. I have a older P30 class A and see that upgrade in my future.
Thanks! The TV lift has been a great addition for sure. We love it.
winabego 30 foot cjas a batery powrr 105 mioe tekàa celsa 121 mile ranhe
I enjoyed this very very much. Really useful information after you had the batteries in use for some time. Thanks.
Brian - great video and good info as always! And, very timely - I am looking at swapping my 2 AGMs for a couple of Battleborns - keep up the great work!
Glad it was helpful. They will probably be the last batteries you'll need if you go that route. Good luck.
RV with Tito DIY zattc@hotmail.com
Love the tip (with LiFePo) on switching reefer from propane to electric on good solar days... we now have 6-30gal propane tanks so very easy to manage refills, but always looking for ways to conserve. Questions: Now that you have upgraded the battery/inv/conv/monitor side to state of the art... are you considering upgrading solar panels from flat-flex to tiltable-rigid? Gain 30-35% panel efficiency this way... is it worth it? Last question... having removed generator and camping in the desert, do you miss the ability to run the air conditioner on occasion?
So Tito is now on lithium...so is my sister 😏
Ohhhhhh, rimshot!
That's nuts..so is your sister
If you’d stop sneaking into her room at night she’d prolly be fine.
Not sure why I keep watching solar/lithium battery videos. Probably over 50 videos I have watched... yours is the best - great pace and explanation.
Wow, thanks! Glad it helped.
Excellent video with really good information, well delivered. Much thanks.
Thanks so much . I'm glad you found it helpful.
Amazing amount of knowledge! Bob wells turned me on to you! Thank You So Very Much!
Great to hear. I'll have to thank Bob if we ever cross paths in the desert. Welcome!
We are preparing to upgrade our single lead-acid battery to 4 Battleborn Batteries...and totally forgot about the Escapees discount. You're going to save us a few pennies! Thanks for the reminder!
Sounds great! The discount is only for the basic model though.
@@RVwithTito By basic are you referring to the 100 aH 12v LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Battery? I didn't realize there were "basic" models.
@@frostbyte32 That's correct. It's the one that's now on sale for $899. Not the GC2 model. So it's not a huge discount anymore.
Thanks for that. I'm about to do a major upgrade to my electrical system. It's good to know your experience.
Excellent video. Great info and nice job presenting this. Thank You.
You're welcome! I appreciate the feedback.
I thank you for the educational info.
Glad it was helpful! Cheers.
Boater here. But a house bank is a house bank, and a boat at anchor is the same as an RV boondocking. I use a 3.5 kw genset to charge my house bank. Went from running the gen an hour a day to running it an hour every three days. I think that says it all.
Not sure if you have solar too but if you don't, you should look into that and run the generator, well, basically never. Unless the boat is quite small and can't accommodate some high quality flexible panels.
Great update. I wondered how the lithium setup was working out for you over time. Cool.
Still going strong. I haven't touched a thing since installing it.
There’s very few RV UA-camrs that I trust for good, no BS information and you are in my top 3 . Cheers
Wow. I'm honored to have earned your trust. Thanks for the feedback.
@@RVwithTito say are you guys in Arizona
As a fulltimer, I think that lithium has completely changed my life. I work in the van and have not run out of power once.
Great to hear. I agree and am loving the upgrade!
Me too
Depends on your needs!
As long as people remain CONFUSED with "numerical states of charge", what he shows seems "WOW", but each are near comparable, but lithium loses!
Flooded lead acid when it undergoes a "load" as he shows and it hits 11.7v, means it is at a 70-80% "'DISCHARGING' STATE OF CHARGE".
When his lithium battery hits 12.8v under that same load, it means it is at a 75-85% "'DISCHARGING' STATE OF CHARGE".
So those numbers, again, seem WOW but people simply do not understand what numerical volts stand for in each battery type.
Nice, the Absorbation phase is killing me so I am going to be switching out to Lithium very soon.
Jason
Jason, I am considering it too. I will be building a 200 AH pack to run my furnace blower motor throughout each night, and soon. It just needs to be done (it's frustrating to wake up at 7 in the morning to see that the ol agm's are at 12.10ish v and need a boost from the ol generator (there goes a gallon or 2 of gas each time). It's a nobrainer, the wasteful costs of running a generator.. and these days, lithium batteries and solar panels are becoming more affordable by the minute (it seems), and the both of them go hand in hand! lol lead acid batteries and solar panels don't like each other at all!!
@@prestoc3034 I disagree. Read my comment above.
Excellent install, newbie that may never install solar as I may do very little boondocking, I do enjoy learning. I like the idea of not putting holes in my roof, have enough holes already! Thanks for posting.
Thanks! Glad you got something from it.
Thanks for another great video Brian. I've been using a 170 amp Renogy lithium to power my AC needs for about six months, very happy with the results.
Great. Thanks for sharing your results!
Hi TOdski33. I just order mine same as yours, and I also Order Converter from Progressive Dynamics the one with 60amp. are they compatible? what converter are you using in your renogy?
how manny watts ac uses
I would love to see the installation process for this conversion. This is the first video of yours I’ve seen.
I made a video covering the install. Here it is: ua-cam.com/video/QhQBEYRG9LY/v-deo.html
Sounds like I need a new charger controller for my Battle Born when on shore power, but that still doesn't explain why I can't get above 13 with my lithium-ready solar charge controller. It was a pleasure to meet you at the Casa Grande convergence. Stay safe.
I have a Casita as well. You will have a full charge on solar, but when you are hooked on shore power or running a generator, you'll only charge up to your converter's capacity which most likely is 13.6 (or 80% of the lithium's 14.6 volts capacity). Call Casita and ask them to read the label on the converter to find out what kind of converter you have.
Lithium ready does not necessarily mean plug and play. Usually you have to change the charge parameters (such as max charge voltage) on the solar charge controller. If you go into the settings you should be able to make those changes.
loquist42
It has a lithium setting with the (supposedly) correct parameters
@@theeggandi6391, please read the comments from Boondocking Adventures. It looks like you are still confusing the terms Solar Charge Controller (MPPT amongst other types usually have their own customizable lithium settings) and the built-in converter (the one underneath the fuse box) which is the one that manages the charging when running 110v and typically do not have any settings you can manipulate.
Thank you for the full explanation. I needed that:) Yep that’s right top notch.
great comparison and update video , thank you . everyone should enjoy this info for their own camping rigs :)
Glad you enjoyed it
Great video. I am going with lithium but never knew of the AGM absorption problem. Thanks for explaining that.
It's not necessarily a problem, but just a characteristic of how lead acid batteries need to be charged. But, yes, lots of folks don't put that together as the reason why lithium charges faster. Glad you help clear that up. Cheers.
Good informative vlog. Thinking about going to lithium batteries in the future. Keep the good vlogs coming.
Just check the difference between lithium batteries, lithium ion, and lithium polymer as seen here with the BattleBorn. Major differences in the number of times they can be recharged.
As long as people remain CONFUSED with "numerical states of charge", what he shows seems "WOW", but each are near comparable, but lithium loses!
Flooded lead acid when it undergoes a "load" as he shows and it hits 11.7v, means it is at a 70-80% "'DISCHARGING' STATE OF CHARGE".
When his lithium battery hits 12.8v under that same load, it means it is at a 75-85% "'DISCHARGING' STATE OF CHARGE".
So those numbers, again, seem WOW but people simply do not understand what numerical volts stand for in each battery type.
@@theo.k.corral6895 Isn't 75-85% better than 70%-80% so is it that Lithium loses?
@@theo.k.corral6895 please respond to primal, as I am needing to know the difference myself before eviction.
@@PrimalMiltos excellent question, I asked they respond to you. Hope they do.
great video. thanks for the extra information on the charging systems.
Thanks. Glad it was helpful!
Shopping for lithium for my new 2021 Grand Design Reflection, your video convinces me to go that route! Thanks!
Good choice! You won't regret it.
Good work explaining the actual capacity difference between lead-acid and lithium. Lithium cells have a much greater energy density, both by weight and volume, and can safely be discharged down to 10% of full charge without ill effects. That makes them ideal for deep cycle usage. The only current downside is initial cost. Lithium cells are more economical to use in the long run, but cost more upfront. If you have the money to buy lithium, or can finance them at a reasonable interest rate, there's no downside to them. The initial cost is around four times what a comparable lead-acid battery costs, but delivers twice the power and with a service life four times as long. If you replace your lithium batteries every four years at 80% of their new capacity, you can sell them for at least half of what you originally paid, to stationary users like me who are less worried about compactness and weight savings. That's not a bad deal at all!
My one gripe is the use of "absorption" and "bulk phase" in reference to battery charging. These are terms that have meaning in chemistry, but are not applicable to lead battery chemistry in any way. Most secondary batteries have two basic charging profiles: constant current and constant voltage. Constant current is used for initial charging to get power into the battery as fast as possible. When there's a water-based electrolyte you're limited to rates of energy transfer that don't heat the water to boiling, or cause electrolysis to turn it into flammable gasses. Lithium ferrophosphate cells can be charged faster because there's no water to boil or dissociate. As the cells gain charge, more voltage is needed to maintain a constant current. With all battery chemistries there's a voltage that will damage the cells inside, so that's when constant voltage is used to finish charging without damaging the battery. Lithium batteries either come with, or are designed to work with a microprocessor-based battery management system (BMS) that monitor and optimize charging and discharge, and cut off the cells if certain limits are reached. Lead acid batteries can benefit from a BMS, but that alone will not make them as good as lithium.
Lots of great info here. That's so much for sharing.
Mrs. Grundy notes: "A decently sunny day," is proper usage.
Hey thanks. So I'm not an idiot after all :)
Good video, Brian. You have really got it down pat.
Another great video with lots of great information. Thanks Brian!
You bet James. Glad you liked it. How are things back home? We'll make it back eventually.
Not to bad Brian. Traffic is pretty light in town, Costco finally has TP and fuel prices are down. Weather hasn’t been to bad, mowed three times already this year. Safe travels!
I will never go back, 3 months in on Blue Nova, ZA, kind regards
Same here. Thanks for telling us about Blue Nova.
Nice review. I'm working up the plan to switch my rig over to lithium myself, and solar too. Waiting for the black friday sale on Battle Borns. Maybe the virus will be solved by then.
Thanks. We can only hope.
Tom Spurlock 😆 There never was a virus deal. ❌😷❌
Go outside and play ‼️
The virus... pffft. Whatever.
put prius batery hybred rv
Great video! Very informative and straight forward.
Thanks! Glad you got something from it.
Thank much for your post, very informative!
Glad it was helpful!
Good review! Question, are you running your AC off your new batteries? With the overall amount of power available it should be possible with the right AC unit.
no way! youd drain them in a couple hours
Great video! You brought up a point that I had never thought of.... Solar charges lithium better due to the agm charging curve. I have two AGM batteries in my rig. I'm considering switching to BB Lithium. I'm wondering if I should mount them inside my rig under the bed, just so they are in a better environment. My battery tray is exposed to the elements. It has a door, but its open underneath. It would be better for security too. How long would it take the Progressive Dynamics charger you are using to charge two BB batteries? All my charging so far is either while driving or while on shore power. I'm assuming I would have to install a DC to DC charger if I go lithium to protect my alternator?
If you have space inside, that would be a good option. They don't vent and prefer to be kept above freezing. The converter/charger charges them at around 30 amps (I believe). So 30 Ah per hour if you do the math. Yes if you do want to charge from the alternator also, you'll need a DC-to-DC charger to protect the alternator. Good luck.
Hi Tito, nice video, now you have sparked my interest!
Tito, great video asl always. Seeing so many videos on the Battle Born Batteries and how great they are, your video just confirms it even more. Your point about how much faster they charge up is something I didn't think about before and just drives home the point the Lifo batteries are really the best way to go if price isn't an issue. Thank you for putting out such high-quality videos and great information.
You're welcome! Glad you enjoyed it.
Really great presentation. I really am interested In how to charge lithiums via. The vehicle alternator. As you know, the BMS will disconnect the battery causing havoc for the alternator, which always needs to see a load or will die.
Cheers
You'll need a DC-to-DC charger to regulate the charge. Here's what I did ua-cam.com/video/TDxfRXgQT04/v-deo.html
Lithium rocks! We have a 200 Ah battery bank that produces just over 5 kW. Our solar array is 1.2 kW and recharges it in 4 hours (or less). Shore power, interestingly, takes longer to recharge our battery bank, 5+ hours depending on how deep the discharge.
Buy once cry once. Lithium Iron Phosphate kicks seven major types of ass (with a temperature compensates charger, very important!!)
KingTesticus Sorry, not sure about your math. Watts equals volts x amps. 12 volt batteries total of 200 amp hours = 2.4 kWh. Thought maybe you have a 24 volt system, but that was contradicted by 1.2 kW of solar panel being able to recharge in less than 4 hours. Remember the output of solar panels is measured in ideal sun conditions. Additionally it requires more power to be charged into the batterry than it will produce.
50 kw batery elrc hybred rv
Came looking for info weather to change battery types from lead acid to LiFeP04 . even though you didn't show differences you explained very well your experiences so this would be what to expect and explained about the charge controller differences . I share many of the same issues you have and now makes sense about the Rate of charge between the two battery types . Thank You for sharing your experiences and Tips.
You're very welcome Wayne. Glad to help.
As much as I've read up on building my own small power bank for a tiny house that I have out back I've not had anyone talk so plainly and educatingly (is that even a word?) as you did. I really liked the explanation of how the lithium batteries take the charge fast all the way to full while the lead-acids go fast for a while and then slow way down. I really appreciate your video and am going back in time to watch some of your previous vids.
I would love to get 1 or 2 LiFePo4 Battle Born batteries but the price is steep. I'll run my lead-acids for a while and than take the plunge next summer or so.
I knew exactly what you meant. So it must be a word :) Thanks so much for that feedback. More and more battery manufacturers and coming online that are less expensive than BB. Check out BigBattery.com for example.
My AGM started failing during load after 6 months.
Just bought LIFEPO, hoping it works.
I've been using lifepo4 for my home storage, I'm very happy with it, I especially like the nice stable discharge curve, each cell stays at a very stable 3.25 to 3.3 volts under load, no major sags. I'm using a 48 volt battery bank at 300ah capacity powering 6000 watts of inverter. It takes the charge in rapidly and is able to discharge it rapidly as well with stable voltages all in between. Factor in the life cycles and it's a no brainer.
That is very unusual. AGM batteries should never be allowed to discharge below 50%, otherwise you will drastically shorten the life of the battery. You didn't happen to break that rule, did you?
@@thewileyone1 I would suspect that the batteries were probably either going below the 50% charge level or were not being fully charged each cycle. Both will kill an AGM pretty fast or any other lead acid. That's one of the nice parts about Lifepo4, as long as you don't fully discharge them, they don't care if they are fully charged each cycle, partial charges actually will increase their lifespan.
@@thewileyone1 well on a heavy night Tito said he would get down to 70% 400ah, 30% of that is 130Ah so as AGM(450ah) (225) still use 130ah
I just bought an Aims inverter/charger and disconnected my install charger. I also detached from the alternator charging. I may change my mind on that later based on how my solar charges and how easy it is to get the correct type of unit to put between the alternator and the batteries.
Check out Renogy's DC-to-DC chargers (amzn.to/2UnspU5). They have a 20, 40 and 60A model.
@@RVwithTito I will, i have renogy solar controllers, batterey monitor, and a panel so I trust their stuff. Thanks
@@RVwithTito do you cook with your solar set up? if so, what heating surfaces do you use? Does it cooking consume alot of power?
@@jab376 Yes. We either use our built-in propane 3 burner stove or portable induction 1 burner electric cooktop.
@@RVwithTito I now have to look into the equipment you mentioned. Thanks and have a good one.
Your videos are always so thoughtful, helpful, thorough and informative. Thanks so much and you're terrific, Tito. :)
Thanks a bunch. Glad you've found them helpful.
@@RVwithTito p
Awesome! You alway give great details! I gave you a shout out in my video tonight! Stay Safe My Friend!
Thanks!! I'll make a note to check it out. Cheers
While Lithium certainly allows you to access almost all of the headline capacity without killing the batteries, unlike for AGM, you will extend battery cycle life considerably if you minimise the time spent with the batteries at a high (100%) state of charge. If your normal pattern of use sees the batteries fully charged but only dropping to 70% as you retire to bed, you might want to consider only charging to 70% peak except for those days when you feel you may need the extra capacity ?
I've started doing that by loading it up longer during the day. A little difficult when there's a lot of solar coming in. I could also lower the charge current on my controllers if need be. Thx.
RV with Tito DIY • is your system capable of passing the solar through to your appliances instead of going to the battery? Would be cool to run your fridge off solar while leaving the LiPo batteries at 70%.
Now, a LiPo will have more charge cycles than a Lithium Ion (like in a cellphone), and only using 20-30% of the capacity will still be less taxing on the batteries than full cycles. So, you’re still going to be doing better than “average!” Like Rhian said, floating the charge between 40-70% is the most ideal, least strain scenario on the batteries, and will greatly extend the lifetime and charge cycles of the batteries. And you might even be able to do it since you have so much capacity, and only use a fraction even with TV, fridge, and microwave. However, you’ve still gotta live your life, and you should still get thousands of cycles out of the batteries with the usage described in the video.
@@evshrug Yep, the high cycle factor means that these will probably be obsolete before you see enough loss of power to justify optimizing lifetime with the charge. Even then, they will be working at maybe 70+ % after ten years.
That said, I understand that the top and bottom 10% is where most of the stress happens. Just by using the alternator to charge, you will tend to land around 90% charge. And you won't take 'em down to zero hardly ever. Also you can set your charge bulk voltage to 14.2 for the solar and AC chargers and avoid that last bit of stress. But these Battleborns especially seem to have a lot of headroom built in. Barely worth bothering !
ceeweedsl • Good point; you still need to live your life. They do have a lot of headroom and have like 4x the lifetime cycles of most lithium batteries (because they’re LiPo) and compared to lead-acid batteries you almost don’t have to think about them at all.
I can understand him wanting to protect his investment though. I think each of those batteries are like $900? And he has a bunch!
Kind of off topic, but in the same constellation: I thought it was cool that my modern Sony Walkman music player (with a more common Lithium Ion battery) has a setting to stop charging once the player reaches 90%
@@evshrug Hey, I struggle with laptop batteries is getting them to stop charging at 90%. With my thinkpads, if keep them plugged in mostly and don't (or they won't let you) manage the charge, and then they just cycle from 90ish-100% and are dead in a year or two without ever being used. Thats Lithium Ion chemistry though.
I have 150 amps of Battleborns in my van (whole system is under the seats) and have researched and thought about charging. Because they do cost! My alternator won't get much more than 14.2 when cool to them over the 4 gauge I ran so that's fine, I lose a bit of capacity for the worst cases, not much, it doesn't quite get to 100%. I set the solar for 14.2 as well. It's rare that I take them all the way to the bottom, but 10-15% happens often enough! I run a DC fridge/freezer unit off of them mostly. That pulls 5amps about 50% of the day, depending on climate.
I'm a big fan of these batteries. Wouldn't be able to pull off the system I have with lead-acid. Battle born is a good company, the kind of people you want to choose for a long term investment.
Tito, would you change any ratio of battery capacity to input solar wattage that you presently use?....I really want to keep using our refer on electric vs propane too.
Right now, it's a good ratio for us. Down here in AZ it does very well (I'm pulling in around 48 amps right now). But it really depends on where and when you camp. Further north yields less sun. So add more solar as needed to account for that.
@@RVwithTito Copy that... Were you JUST using your 550w atop the RV.. Or were also using the 200w portables?
@Rich Ratch It draws 26 amps from the inverter and cycles on and off.
Great video! Thanks for the explanation.
You bet!
Excellent video. I don’t know much about solar but it’s very interesting and you really dumb it down so we can understand.
Smart!
Cheers
Very important to have dc to dc when charging from alternator.
It's been a very worthwhile addition. Stay tuned.
@@RVwithTito Oh yes, I am upgrading my 5th wheel. The problem with charging from an alternator is to limit the current draw. Lithium batteries that are deeply discharged can draw high amperages for quite a long time which in turn can overload and damage alternators. A good dc to dc device will limit current, usually 20 amps or less. I think battleborm has an excellent bms built-in that limits overcharge. I am not sure about there low temp cut off, but hey it's got a 10 year warranty.
This is not necessarily true. There are some very knowledgeable battery experts who are pointing it out that this is a common misconception about the alternator being overwhelmed. Just saying that people should look more into this information.
Buy an alternator designed for constant use (marine for example)
I have a 48v one that is designed for constant use, it’s actually designed to run 5000w worth of draw with no batteries at all.
@@rongray4796 whols the roach is correct... I charge directly from alternator and the charge is controlled by size of fuse and wire resistance used - its very simple for anyone to do and split charging systems from manufactures installed already do this and have limited charge for this reason already.
Great video Tito, thank you for sharing this!
My pleasure!
Great movie, you are great at explaining the operation of the devices! Greetings from Poland !
Hello!
I’m curious since you’re out in the desert, or in my case, the humid and hot South, are you able to power your AC off of the batteries and if so, how long are you able to run them? Thanks and great videos.
I don't think he would be able to run his air conditioner off of it, because he has a 2000 watt inverter. I have a 3000 watt inverter and it is probably a bare minimum to run the rv air conditioner. I also added a soft start to help it out. But it does run it indefinitely when the sun is shining. Batteries stay at 100% too. That's with 600w of solar, wired in series/parallel.
@Thomas Chrombly Sun + Solar Panels can allow A/C to run all day. Battery drain only at night ...
Great video! Did you add something between the engine alternator and the charge controller so it does not draw too much current and burn out the alternator? If you did, what is the thing called? Thanks,
Installed a dc-to-dc charger between the alternator and house batteries.
When you choose to buy a dc to dc charger, you have the option on what amperage you want. Say a 12v system, you can buy a 30 amp charger and it will roughly use 30amps from your vehicle charging system. That will protect your alternator. Talk to a auto electrician, he will calculate a safe system.
I installed a high capacity alternator in my tiny van and no problem with only 150 amps of battery. But the DC-DC charger is optimal. Victron just came out with a new line of DC-DC chargers including a 30 amp, which is probably ideal for most systems. Check Bay Marine.
👍👍 Great video. I switched over the lithium back in September (2019)...and never looking back. The batteries' BMS shows I have only "cycled" them 13 times in six months. They should outlive me brother! Stay awesome...I was in the AZ desert in early March...had a great time visiting friends, USAF boneyard, etc-etc.
yes, for sure in max 10 year will be dead, maybe if you keep them not used will be dead in 11 years...
Hi Brian,
Great video, I always lean something from you. I also go down to the desert and have upgraded my 2004, HR Navigators systems.
Dennis Barnes