I’m not a 4 wheeler guy but considering Lithium for my boat. Excellent job mate. Such a professional delivery. I hope you’re using your presentation skills to earn money. You answered everything I needed to know.
This video is great however lifepo4 is light-years better than a lithium battery at slightly more weight. They have 6-seven times more discharge cycles before having to replace them so instead of 500 cycles to get to 80% capacity they have 3000 cycles to get to 80%. :)
Also instead of having some complicated system where you buy the battery and then having to wire everything together I would just rather get a bluetti lifepo4 generator/battery. They make a really great one for 1500 bucks if you are a serious Overlander or buy the EB 55 for medium tasks
I have utilised 120amp hour AGM in caravan since 2004. In that time we have done weekend trips, fortnightly runs and 8 week vacations. They have given us 7.5 years service from each. They have always been awesome, running electric blankets, coffee pod m/c, sandwich toaster lights, fans etc., however we have just retired and plan on utilising the van more extensively with an addition of a washing m/c. hence began investigating lithium. Decided on Itech 120 and cannot believe just quickly it recharges, basically as soon as the solar panels (4 X 64watt amorphous) see sun light the battery is back to full capacity, so along with better operation we have reduced our weight. As a result we purchased 3 x 54amp hour Itech units to replace our AGM units in our Patrol. Same result, superior recharge time and great weight saving over 3 X AGM. Now to see how long these units last as they need to justify $ layout. Thanks Shaun, you have given us confidence we have taken the correct action.
@@trevorspeedy6333 it's all about storage space and capacity, a single 100amp hr unit in AGM wasn't sufficient, so I utilised 3 X 48amp hr AGM in the initial storage design. These worked fine, but recovery was slow, hence we installed BCDC charging, and whilst better, it was still slow to recover and when I elected to go lithium it was obvious I'd have to use batteries with same casing size to fit in predestined storage space, hence 54 amp hr lithium, that equates to 162 amp hr, nothing trivial about that capacity and they recover faster than the AGM counterparts of 144 amp hr. A good compromise all round.
@@ianweal3081 how do you go about charging them in Parallel with the three batteries. Are you going from closest positive to furtherest negative or are you using bus bars and identical length leads to each battery. I’d be interested to know how even the charge up and run down is with three batteries.
I've been running LifePo4 cells for 5 years now. 1st up was a 400ah pack I built with 16 x 100ah cells in our caravan. Yes they cost a bit, but the weight savings (~52kg vs ~200kg) and what they could run over lead acid it was a no brainer. I had 5 x 250watt 36 volt solar panels on the roof, Midnite solar controller and a 2000 watt Projector sine wave inverter. The system could run our Fujitzu 6kw inverter (inverter split system, max draw at 22 degrees was ~960 watt) domestic split system all day long plus the tv, 255 liter 240 volt sumsung inverter fridge, lights etc and still have 80-90% soc by dusk. I now use 200ah of that LifePo4 pack in my 4wd, 1 x 250watt 36 volt solar panel, mppt solar controller. My 60 liter fridge/freeze is on 24/7, hasn't been turned off for at least a year. Also run a 1000 watt Projector sine wave inverter which will run my small Boc inverter arc welder and small grinder, small 240v air compressors etc. Lead acid just can't do what a lithium can.
Good one Shauno, enjoyed watching the deep technology comparison between the two, please do more of these side by sides. Nice graphic works too. Cheers
AGM batteries discharge must faster and hold less power but unlike lithium ion phosphate batteries they can be rapidly discharged or charged, if you do that to lithium ion battery you will ruin it, this is exactly why you must never connect them to an alternator, way to many amps, this is not a proper for flooded fibreglass lead acid cells.
USA. Indiana. Just purchased our first RV Fifth wheel. Prep for Solar with one AGM. As we outfit I have to decide more AGM or just go to Lithium get over the pain of cost. As a qualified Electrician I’m refreshing my knowledge and learning what’s new in the low voltage world. Your videos are spot on. Sub thank you
Had problems with a well known brand lithium. BMS played up in hot temps, shut the battery down and wouldn’t charge etc. No good in the middle of nowhere. Also can’t determine what SoC lithiums are from volt reading and need to spend more money on a battery monitor. Gone back to AGM and no BMS to worry about and totally reliable. SoC easily determined by volt reading. No noticeable difference to vehicle performance carrying the extra 15kg in weight either. Twenty years of travelling and there was no difference to my trips having a lithium compared to AGM. BMS in lithium batteries need improving so maybe in a couple years I’ll go back to lithium. Just my 2c worth
I’m an electrician and wanted some real world info on these 2 batteries for a project. Best video ever, you covered everything and tested everything perfectly. I’m subscribing even though I don’t 4wd.
Battery selection of AGM vs Lithium is very specific for use. For a trolling battery it’s excellent when paired with a proper charger. For a starting battery it’s a very bad idea. Lithium is typically output current limited and a starter can overwhelm the battery. Also lithium batteries will hungrily accept a charge and can overwhelm many alternators. There are ways to adapt to them but in most cases they are not easily interchangeable.
One disadvantage with Lithium batteries that you missed, and it is an important one for people in colder climates, like us Canadians, is that you can't charge them when they are below freezing, 0° C, or 32° F for the Americans. Most good quality Lithium batteries will have a low temperature cut off on their BMS, but virtually all of the cheaper Lithium batteries don't. Charging them below freezing damages your Lithium battery, and can dramatically reduce their life. Some models of Lithium batteries that are designed for colder climates have an internal heating element in them that kicks in to warm the battery up if you start trying to charge it when the temperature is below freezing...I know off the top of my head that both Battle Born and Renogy have versions of their batteries with that ability, there are probably others as well.
He's generally talking to Australians and what we call cold here would probably make you laugh. Also old mate just mentioned heat. That's why it's kept in the cabin or in the back. We would never stick a Lithium in the engine bay
@@jollymadness6882 I'm an Aussie. Are you trying teach me to suck eggs? Don't bother, I'm sitting in Tassie right now, and I live in Qld usually. So I get the angle sunshine.
Great video and simple explanation. The one thing that people also need to take into consideration is that AGM are easily recycled back into new Batteries. Lithium batteries are very hard to dispose of at the end of the life. So there is an environmental impact at the end of the life of the battery.
Lithium iron phosphate should be more recyclable from what I understand as the chemistry is simpler, but there are upcoming ways that will address all of that to be sure. 😊🌎✨
Beauty video boys! Great explanations! It is on its way to Victoria BC Canada as we speak but I went with a portable setup. A shop in Perth mods National Luna battery box (which are really hard to get here and waay pricey) with the Redarc 25 amp dc/dc charger, preps the box for solar and 12v vehicle charging with Andersons . I sourced a North American pure sine 500 watt inverter and a lithium 100 amp/hr battery which I will slam in here! Also went with a solar blanket to stay very portable! I am chomping at the bit to get my hands on it and prep my Lexus GX470/Prado Grande 120( no diesel , 5 spd , rats! Lol. Can’t complain though. It turned over 450 000km two weeks ago! Knock on wood!) Love the Aussie touring setups and equipment! Been a fan of 4wd Action /24/7 since the late 90’s. Love the content! Keep it up! Cheers!
Hi shauno, once again great content keep it coming, everything is down to budget, and especially if your an AGM guy the charger is vital, alternator charging via relays are not great as the regulation to the battery is off, a good charger is the way to go, for both lithium and AGM, some AGM are rated for 10 years but you really need to pamper it and not just shove in the boot and hope for the best. Again with lithium a very good BMS is needed, you know the saying ‘’you buy cheap, you buy twice ‘’. Greetings from Ireland keep up the good work.
As always an awesome in-depth explanation with a comparison that chimps like me can understand. Your high-school essays must've been off the charts Shauno!
Pretty helpful and fair video! Def should mention how freezing cold is no good for charging a lithium! Running an ebay special setup! Not the most reliable of bits and pieces but for under 600 usd including a solar panel it gives me all the capacity to run lights and change small devices I could need!
Put a Service body Canopy on the back of my Ranger Put in 2 100ah Lithium batteries but kept the charging simple using a Redarc bcdc 40 but also have a 240 setup using a Victron charger both running thru a smart shunt and can see everything on the phone running a engel 110 upright passenger side and a engle 60lt as a freezer/ Beer fridge driver side. Your vid has confirmed that going this way was the right move even thou the initial outlay was substantial. Love going to the river for the weekend and the wife has the food fridge and i have the beer fridge we both happy as i like having the drinks at 1C lol. Great vid as always well done Shauno
The 50 percent myth is a big issue in the 12 volt world. A typical AGM has a life time of say... 2000 cycles If you discharge it to 50 percent. If you discharge it to 80 percent you get 600-800. If you discharge it to 100 percent you get 200-300 cycles. But.. unless you are camping every day for a year, your typical battery will get maybe 10-50 cycles a year. If you camp for half a year, yes, definitely lifetime starts to be impacted. But if you camp twice a year for 2 days? Thats 4 cycles. At 200 cycles, thats still 50 years. NO agm lasts 50 years even if you never use it. So just use your battery, unless its in a caravan and you live off the grid every day. Its not use protecting your AGM from deep discharge when the damn things still die within 5 years due to simple acid loss due to heat and lead erosion due to just.. sitting there. The 50 percent "myth" as it is is for daily solar cycling off grid usage. For years on end. Camping agms can be discharged to 80 percent and still last as long as if you did it to 50 percent, and you get 30 percent more usage, so thats 30 percent more effective power for exactly the same price. USE your battery... its got a rating on the side and that is what its rated to deliver before dropping into usless voltage territory. If you plan on using it for a year in a caravan, stick to 50 percent, but if you do that to a camping battery in a plastic box? You are simply throwing away battery capacity for no reason at all. The battery will still die eventually, and you have gone camping 10 times. So use it to 80, 90 percent even. Its capable of it. Thats why the rating is on the side that says 100ah. If AGMs were useless past 50 percent... then they would be marked with 50 ah. Im fully prepared for any questions... but you cant argue the fact that there are no 50 year old agms... and reducing the life of your battery means nothing if its already got a limited lifetime. If you "save" your battery so it only lasts 20 years instead of 40 years... but will still die in 5.. what are you saving for?
It's hard to use less than 12 volts anyway I guess. Especially at high current draw. I think most people will use it if they need, only they plan thier needs to be above 50%. It's possible if you flatten it completely that you lose a significant part of capacity, the next day you may not have enough to last you.
What about self discharge, agm cells wont be fully charged a week after charging them month much worse but the lithuim would still hold full charge, Byd blade cell 138ah 30000 cycles now thats a cell you want.
We run complete lithium setup now. Lithium cranking battery and 480ah of iTechworld lithium deep cycle! works a treat and can run the aircon off them all day. the 120ah itechworld bats only weigh 11kg. Lithium is the way of the future but they are still so expensive
You can build a 280ah useable Lifepo4 battery that weighs 20kg for around $1,200 or 105ah for about $550 (with bluetooth BMS). You can charge these at 0.5c until almost full which is just over 2.5 hours. Your AGM will take 5-10x longer than that
15:00 this is not an inconsequential observation. Given that most battery BMS require recharge from a battery charger (not a solar charger which will expect some visible voltage in order to pass current to the circuit. some DCDC chargers also expect to see a completed circuit to charge). this means if your BMS cant be physically reset, you may be stuck in the middle of nowhere requirinf 240V to kick the BMS back into life.
With the price gap so high Shauno it might be better to invest in another solar panel to compensate the 50% discharge limit by just pumping in more energy.
I mentioned to you about running an induction cooker vs Gas at the Perth 4x4 show 2022. You answered me with . It depends on the battery manage system. Now watching this video, it is worth it. Not having to worry about gas refills. Replenishing water would mean seeking a source. What if you applied this concept to a caravan then you could find a sunny spot and relax for weeks on end before moving on. Great Vid Shauno 👍
Great video & very informative. One cost that wasn't included though is if you're swapping from an old AGM system to a new lithium you may need to upgrade your charger to suit.
My big question - how would a lithium battery handle a 10,000lb winch? Plan to put in engine bay and use to run winch when need and camp appliances on board truck. Truck will do trails and camp mostly weekend type trips but the occasional week 🤠
There are now 100ah LiFePO4 batteries for around $300. And you'll actually get 100ah. You can buy a 50ah LiFePO4 battery to save money. You'll have the same usable charge as before, but it'll be far lighter.
Great video on the differences, my take as follows. If you move often when camping or have a generator handy and weight is not an issue, AGM all the way it is more cost effective. If you like to camp in one spot for quite a while off grid, don't need or want to carry a generator, need to run a bigger inverter and/ or weight is an issue, lithium batteries are a revelation. Having converted to Lithium a lot less time worrying about and managing power drain and charging. So fast to return to full charge gives the ability to handle a series of cloudy days without limiting power draw to the point of turning off fridges or having to run a generator. If they suit your application, you can afford it and have set them up correctly - definately more smiles to the mile.
There is one point more for cons. The discharge and charge of Lithium during frost. Discharge is generally possible until-15/20°C but for charging you need something around -5°C. In Australia maybe not an issue and/or if your Battery is inside the Vehicle. My Battery is in the back of my Hilux and is a AGM from Optima wich is allready working for 8 years. But i like to replace it by Lithium just to try it. Thx for a really good Video!👍 Brgds 🙋🏻♂️
I'm from Russia and I've never heard about lithium batteries in cars. Decided to google why and yes, you answered my question - it doesn't work in cold. In my city in winter it can be -20 -30 quite commonly. And my region isn't that cold. So unfortunately all of this is just an aussie story...
@@Stalinko from Finland, hi. If you run a gasoline car that heats up well, you should still have no problem. At least my 4 liter Jeep still has all hot engine bay so it will be able to charge! Also people seem to block the ventilation from engine bay during winter and some wrap up even normal batteries in some thermal covers. But lithium will most probably do always at least as well as an AGM. Friends even run cars on 2kg motorcycle lithium batteries!
@@tuomassoukka1967 sounds good and would make sense if it wouldn't have costed 10x of the agm battery price) Btw I have a diesel land cruiser 100, so anyway no sense in my case
@@Stalinko Here in Europe it becomes popular. But the most People install the Battery inside the Vehicle. In this case it works at least in the mild winters in the last years. I don't know how it works in Scandinavia. Brgds to Russia! 🙋🏻♂️
An excellent comprehensive comparison between Lithium and AGM batteries. This along with the 1000s of other videos in UA-cam that's already covered this topic, does not convince you that Lithium is the go, I don't think nothing will.
@@jarkkoseppanen899 I'm only looking at this from an auxiliary battery setup (for Australian conditions). Not for the cracking battery. For that, I will still go with AGM. In AUS, we rarely see very low temps (ie. -20c), where the lithium will start to compromise its performance. For us in AUS, it's the heat that's our biggest challenge for lithium.
Interested to know what happens/each scenario with both/either when they explosively fail, any chance of a report on that? Especially with Lithium no being recommended being in the engine bay, what happens in say a 76 series wagon?
I didn’t know that and I was thinking of replacing my start and house batteries in my boat with lithium batteries to save weight and space. The batteries are mounted in the engine compartment. Perhaps I’ll just stick to the lead acid type.
The newer style LifePo4 lithium battery technology is very safe, they are not the same chemistry as Lithium Ion cells found in phones and smaller devices and don't run-away thermally like the lithium Ion cells can
they way technology is moving in the lithium world, this will be a non issue soon enough, they already have new designs to help to minimize issues with fire and over heating.
After running two solid systems with lead acid and AMG plus gel. I finally bought my very first Lithium battery. Until I test it I will become an 100% believer in Lithium batteries. What I have been threw and now these studies are out. I am sitting at an 90% believer in Lithium batteries and I am supper excited for my very first Lithium battery to come in. Thanks for the information.
Great video. Can totally tell you don't need to worry about leaving batteries in vehicles that are below freezing for 4-6 months. Let alone daily highs of -30 or lower for an entire month. I wish I could switch to Lithium but life in the Canadian prairies means AGM for a while yet.
@@justsomeguy6474 typical Tesla owner probably has them in a garage, most likely heated, if they live anywhere cold. In December I picked up an Odyssey AGM when temperatures dropped below -40°C and my 6 year old Northstar wouldn't start in the mornings. Will keep an eye on lithiums though. My brother has one for his truck's stereo.
@@4LilyPad Tesla owners like myself still go to movies and supercharger stations are never indoors. In Denmark(the artic circle) Teslas are the number one selling vehicles. The cold weather myth is just that.
G'day Shaun, I believe you failed to mention an important point about the batteries that some people may not be aware of , that is lithium is not suitable for the under bonnet temperatures and not suitable to be your main start battery or your back up battery in a dual battery setup whereas the agm is suitable for this situation and is commonly used as such . So that is a real bummer due to the weight of two agm batteries under the bonnet and the rather rapid use by date ! I know, maybe if we wrap some pink batts around the lithiums then put them under the bonnet in a two battery situation win win ! it could work ? yes, maybe, ok I know i'm dreaming but think of the bonuses ! if only they can improve lithiums to be able to handle heat everyone will be happy campers . great videos keep up the good work . cheers
G'day Shauno, great coverage on a commonly asked question mate, we run 2 X 300 AH AGM batteries hooked-up in 24V, & those big bastards weigh 100kg each. However I do prefer to run the AGM simply on the price gap, when the Lithium becomes more affordable I would make the switch.
I don't think prices will come down much until lithium is replaced. Look at cordless tools the batteries are still really expensive to say there's just a handful of 18650 batteries in them
I hear you re price. I wonder what you would save on fuel over the life time of the battery when comparing AGM v lithium? Would offset some of the up front costs of lithium maybe 🤔 ?
My set up is a Red arc manager 30 with red vision and 400Ahs of lithium , 3000W inverter . Can run kettle ,coffee machine , induction cooking and microwave and an electric blanket if I want of the inverter and the usual stuff from 12 Volts like travel buddy, fridge, lights etc. I just wanted something simple to operate no hassles and it is . But the cost was around $10.000.
I have a 100amp hour Volta X lithium battery purchased on ebay. Got it for $385 delivered on a sale a year or so ago. My cfx65 still has over 13volts after 12hrs of being a beer fridge. Very happy
How's the Volt X lithium battery performing to date? Good? I'm also considering getting a Volt X. But they have two types, one is colour coded green and the other in purple. Which one did you get?
@@fatmanoverlanding They usually change up their design every year.. I'm running the 200Ah "green" VoltX and it happily ran 3 x 50L fridges, charged 8 phones/tablets, ran the radio for 7 days at Bathurst this year. The tests I've seen show they're not bs'ing their ratings either. I should note than you should check their discharge current as they are on the "lower" side, if you're looking for something to run a high powered inverter, might not be the go for you.
A few battery terminals there that need covers; wouldn’t like to accidentally drop a spanner on them. Nice video. I did a blog on the similar merits of lithium vs AGM when I worked for Victron Energy. I’m retired now and did that blog maybe 7 years ago and came to similar conclusions as you. Maybe one thing you could have added was a bit about chemistry and pros on cons of those, say LiFePO4 vs NMC. In my motorhome I approached things slightly differently for ease. I kept the Gel based lead system and made effectively a Go solution, so I had 5kWh of NMC with BMS, a 2kVA inverter (1,600 Watts continuous at 25C) with combined charger called a Victron MultiPlus and solar plugin. It was all about weight and ease. I simply spliced into the shore cable downstream of the shore supply on the vehicle, effectively taking shore power with you when disconnected. That kept the Gel charged until the Go pack ran out and the lithium energy pack could be topped up with solar as could the Gel. The pack was ‘portable’ and could be used for other off grid uses. All in all it saved a complete redesign of the system and when I sold the vehicle I simply lifted out my Go pack.
Shauno and Graham should do a road trip from Googs Track, to Uluru, to the Kakadu go through Cahils Crossing and go to the Simpson's desert on the way back.
We are located at NSW and we just came back from a 3 week trip. We went from Sydney to Adelaide, went to Cobber Peddy through Port Augusta, went to the Painted Desert in Oodnadatta (hottest town in Aus), went to Uluru & Olgas, went to Alice, up to Katherine then Darwin, from Darwin to the Kakadu (Jabiru), tried to go to Cahils Crossing was fully flooded bc of the wet season, went to Jim Jim Falls, went back home via Warumungu, to Camooweal, Mount Isa, Winton, Longreach, Cunnamulla, Bourke to Dubbo then Dubbo to Sydney. 3 weeks many not be enough time to enjoy every place as we had 12hr days of driving.
120ah agm in under tray box, red arc dc dc charger, victon 1500w inverter. Perfect setup for me. Can run induction cooker and fridge. Even a sandwhich press at times. Never missed a beat in about 3 years so far.
Just one quick question. An AGM battery can go through a rejuvenation process basicly making the old battery like new again. Can this be done with lithium?
AGMs cant do this. You can not rejuvenate AGMs as their wear is a physical process that can't be reversed. The lead sulphate crystals are not conductive and slowly replace the active material, and not only that are physically bigger in size and slowly crack the lead plates. You can't uncrack lead with a chemical process or a fancy electronic signal. There are chemicals and processes out there that can temporarily give them a bit of a boost, but all you are doing is accelerating their wear even faster and they always fail. Flooded cells are even worse as the active material falls to the bottom of the cell. You can't electrically pick up that lead and put it back in the plates.. its at the bottom of the cell.
@@colinsmith6340 you're wrong. I've done it multiple times already mate. Look for the projecta pro-charge. I got the 16A vertion. Also get a solar battery and system tester. The charger has a rejuvenate setting on it that is made to break down the sulphate crystal build up. It takes 24 hours and may need to be done more than once depending on build-up. The battery tester if used correctly will tell you what your cold crank amps are at and can do load tests and other to see if your battery is OK or not.
@@GarageSupra Thanks mate, i will check into that. I have never trusted the "fix any battery" things you hear about, but CTEK doesn't mess around. Will read up on it.
Great video, There are still other battery options LiFePO4 and Ni-MH which all have there limits but depending on application can be great. Ni-MH are good if your equipment sits around as they can recharged from basically zero without any real problems, LifePoe4 batteries good for solar storage or large storage for longer trips. I love new technology but things like Li-ion batteries but anything goes wrong you could loose your car quick or get hurt so its always about risk factors. Everyone has there preference but why some people still like old school maybe heavy but withstand the test of time and don't need no fancy electronics to keep you safe
AGM and other lead acid batteries can have several times the number of charge/discharge cycles if you use the right charger. a proper charger will remove all the build-up on the plates that reduce the life span of the battery. the problem is typical chargers don't actually "completely" charge the battery they stop short which leaves the sulfate to build up on the plates. sulfation builds up on the discharge cycle and can be totally removed on a "complete" recharge. this is how lead acid batteries are reconditioned to practically new.
@@chrisward5626 LOL. wow, that's just dumb and uneducated, (unless you work for a supplier of new batteries to businesses) this isn't some youtube hack, the principle has been around for years, it's just not widely promoted because strictly speaking it wouldn't be good for battery sales in general. go do your homework, you might find yourself a little more educated after a bit of research.
@@MrTubeuser12 lol it is some fake hack . Not sure how many batteries you have ever pulled apart but once sulphated it degrades the plates and they dont fix themselves .
Hey Shaun. Awesome explanation! One thing you didn't really touch on is the need to have some form of battery monitor on a lithium battery in order to know its state if charge which is an extra cost. Cheers.
You can still estimate the state of charge by the voltage but the range is much tighter for lithium being from 100% @ 13.8v to 40% @ 13.1v. Like all batteries should not be under load before you take a reading
@@PeterPaoliello Very true. But for the average bloke an energy meter/battery monitor makes it alot easier. When you start talking about percentages vs SOC measured without load it can get a bit confusing. 👍
@@orb1talnz from my experience I found that more difficult to track with an in/out AH meter as there's losses in the system the accuracy will drift over time, depending on the logic of the meter the battery will need to be brought up to 100% and/or drained to 0% for the meter to correctly understand the range (neither of which are good for the battery), plus with natural degradation of the cells capacity will change over time. It's a nice to have for sure, but voltage to me is the most accurate method. I have a printed and laminated table stuck near my voltage meter I use as a reference. Each to their own though. Cheers.
Redarc gear is great but damn it's expensive. You can get a good quality 100ah lithium battery for around $500 if you look around. (There's plenty of UA-cam channels that test and dismantle cheap lithium batteries to check the quality etc and some are actually very good)
Plenty of $500 100ah lithium's around that discharge at 100amps nowadays with Australian warranties - hell, I saw one that comes in a clear case so you can see exactly what's in it without having to open it up! Pointing people at $1500-$2000 is absurd in this day and age. Easy when you are given them for free I s'pose ....
We live on the road full time and change over to lithium batteries in our caravan and the ute too. Best decision we made. We have a 2000w inverter in the van and we can run our washing machine and other appliances easy without problems. We change from 2x 120 agm to 2x 135 lithium in the van and we also put replace the 100amp agm to a 135 amp lithium on the ute. The cost us $1500 each and 5 year warranty on each one. Best money spent ever
OMG, would love your setup, but my wife kill me if I spent that much without even not knowing the cost, my guess around $6k to $7k, I will check out your video on it. I needed to change out my 3 X 100ah AGM batteries after 4 years of use, did ok, but were never very good. In the process of changing them out to 3 X 100ah lithium batteries found, they were wired up incorrectly which may have been the cause of poor battery performance while camping. Now have my 3 X 100ah batteries, went cheaper brand, same as what was in my camper trailer, VoltaX, ($410 each) new Renogy 25ah lithium charger and boy it's bloody great. I have at least 260ah of useful power, chargers very quickly, only use around 50 ah's per day/night and the solar panels put it all back the next day. And the weight saving, around 60kg. Time will tell if these cheaper batteries last there 8 to 10 years, but at this price, if I got 5 or 6 I will be happy.
My wife left me for another woman 20+ years ago. Not unusual in Calif. So, I asked my doggy if she cared about me spending $$$$ on lithium batteries. She sat there wagging her tail with the smiley face on, so I guess it was OK.
Hi Shanno, I have a Mux. very little room for a second battery under the bonnet, so the auto elec recommended a Redarc 100amp go block. Saves on weight , runs the fridge and cpap machine all night. if i sell the car I can keep it for the next one. Redarc. Great choice
Being a Malaysian, the best system gotta be a system that doesn’t lighten my wallet like crazy. If a Redarc 100Ah cost 2K in Ozzie, it will cost nearly 8-10K in Malaysia, that’s a sum that many don’t earn 🥶
I have a tight arse system of 2 x 75ah AGM batteries. They were ex-generator backup batteries and cost $50 each. Been running my fridge 24-7 for over a year now. Would love lithium but can't justify the expense.
@@Phil_McAvity No, always had Hiluxs and Rangers. The cells are all manufactured in China, the BMSs are mostly out of China or Taiwan. These are the suppliers all companies use. I put together my own 100ah rated at 200A continuous draw for $600. Has been going daily for over 18 months with no issues I assembled my own
Would have been good to emphasise that these are not the same type of lithium batteries used in mobile phones. I.e. There isn’t the fire / explosion risk
I have built my car up to be a decent touring vehicle, I have gone with a decent DC-DC charger and a deep cycle battery for my second. I figured the entire cost of all that was huge enough. I can always go lithium later. To have the luxury of a dual battery system is the best.
You forgot that you can't really mount a lithium battery in your engine bay due to the heat, and lithium batteries also don't like extreme cold weather either. People should also understand the risks associated with Lithium batteries and why it is so important to pair them with the correct charger and BMS.
These are Lifepo4 batteries not the dangerous Lithium cobalt or manganese. You will find Lifepo4 are very safe. But yes with all batteries heat is there enemy. And yes below zero is not good to charge lifepo4 either but in Australia that's not really an issue.
@@MrDingaling007 granted, but the audience isn't just Australian and they have been offroad in the snow a few times. To the average uneducated buyer lithium is lithium and he needs to know the risks
@@QuintinKruse indeed. in finland we get below 0 weather and lithiums just don't work. I did my research and ended up with a 235ah agm. it recharges whenever the engine is on, and combined with the starter agm, I have a total of 330ah. battery was about 400€ and the charger 150€. those will keep the beer cold and the car warm.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the biggest "con" of LIthium batteries (other than the initial cost of purchase), and that is "heat". Lithium battery life will degrade much quicker and won't perform as well, if its constantly exposed to high temperatures. Making them unsuitable for under bonnet mounting. They're most ideal for in-car or in-canopy mount.
A very thorough presentation but there are a couple of other things to consider. Firstly, temperature. Lithium ion batteries do not take kindly to extremes of temperature, especially heat. This should be a consideration if you are planning a fixed installation in a hot environment. Lead acid/ AGM might be a better solution or using a portable battery pack. Plenty of Nissan Leaf owners have found out the hard way what heat does to a lithium ion battery. One of the big selling points of the Tesla range of vehicles is that their batteries are temperature controlled to ensure longevity. You wont get 4000 cycles out of a lithium Ion battery that spends its time in the hot Australian outback. In fact, you'll be lucky to get a tenth of that. Another consideration is the state of charge when the batteries are not in use. Trickle charging an AGM using a solar panel or alternator to keep the battery "full" will optimise its life and you don't have to think about it. Lithium ion batteries, on the other hand, don't "like" to be stored at full or near full charge for extended times between use. Anodic plating occurs which greatly reduces the capacity of the battery in a fairly short period of time, i.e. 2-3 years, and can render the battery useless. Lithium ion batteries are best stored at 50% capacity and in a cool environment which can make managing them a difficult proposition for many users. Hope this helps.
@@carl8568 There are all sorts of temperature ranges bandied about but ideal ranges for operation (charge, discharge and storage cycles) are between 5-20 Celsius. Capacity becomes reduced outside of these temperature ranges which may or may not be a consideration. Shortened life can be expected at around the 40 C. mark for charge/discharge cycles and storage at 60+C. is considered harmful to the battery and potentially dangerous to the user. Don't get me wrong, L-Ion batteries have a multitude of worthy applications and yours might be one of them. I would suggest getting advice from someone other than a supplier or salesperson before installing one of these just below the roof of a metal box that is going to be left out in the hot Australian sun for extended periods. As a side note, a friend of mine managed to kill one of two 18650 cells that he left in his ute a couple of weeks ago on a hot day. Yes, one survived, the other didn't. They're good but they're not bullet proof.
@@davidbrayshaw3529 Ok thanks. I'm considering an AGM setup in a caravan, it seems the lead acid will be slightly more tolerant to extremes in temperature.
Makes you wonder how much Redarc donated to Shaun to push their product so much, also did not include cost of setup for Lithium(most times AGM charging setup will not work with Lithium, more expense upgrading), reading battery voltage, totally different to AGM (more expense for right monitor)
Things you didn't cover: Voltage does not mean anything with lithium. You need to instal a gauge that counts the amps drawn to calculate battery state of charge. 100amp lithium batteries can be bought for much cheaper than 1500 dollars. They start at 400. I'm a fan of redarc and have many of there products but I wouldn't buy there batteries or solar panels, pricing is ridiculous. Lithiums don't like freezing cold conditions.
I’m in the market for a Lithium battery - to run my 44lb thrust motor on my inflatable. My back cannot handle the 30kg weight any longer of the AGM Battery 😆🤭 great video .. I’m sold 😀👌🏻 thanks
Curious about charging. In addition to the solar panels, do you also have to install a larger alternator? If so, how many amps? My Grandpa installed an extra alternator, 2 total. (and an air compressor) I think the 2nd alt was 70 amps (?) That was in the 60s and 70s. An old Dodge 2wd with a cab-over camper. Coffee makers weren't invented then, (I think?) but 12V coolers and refrigerators were. No rooftop AC, just fans and heaters.., and lots of gadgets.
Building a square drop camper at the moment, and thinking after watching this vid, to go for lithium. Seems to be more economical longterm. Thanks for the info. 👍
Yes. And the voltage on lithium stays up much longer than a lead acid,. Lithium batteries recover much quicker after removing a big load. Lithium charges fasted than lead acid as well. I had AGM's up until 2017 and now my projects are all lithium battery power.
Sounds like getting a smart charger would be a good investment for an agm battery. I have one, and it has a desulfating feature. Not saying it will bring it back to almost new but I'd imagine it would also help lengthen it life. I use just a standard battery in my truck. It sat for a week on -30 to -40 celcius and froze up. After thawing the battery out, I hooked up my smart charger and it brought the battery back to 98% charge and 88% health. The battery is a Kirkland battery and is 2 years old. Thoughts about this?
How do you know that the AGM battery will be damaged if you discharge over 50percent? UPS devices have been doing that to SLA batteries for over 30 years. The SLA battery data sheet shows the specs with full discharge (being defined as dropping no lower then 10.8v)
Living in the states it gets too cold here to use lifepo4 all yr round. Recently dipped down to the teens. Had to pull my car audio batteries for the winter and just rely on the big boy agms
i will be getting back to you with real questions about marine app. I just spent $600 this morning on a AGM but it has not been installed yet. great video.
Hi Guys! Well, I'm in RSA, it gets hot in the Kalahari and Botswana, lithium doesn't like continous heat. Camping friends had lots of issues and loss of fresh food because lithium battery just failed in continuous heat. I have a 100aH gell battery, 10yrs to date, no issues, but I do need to chase the sun till last rays (7.45pm) and up at 5.30am, fairly short night. We don't use heavy drawing equipment such as coffe makers or cookers...we cook on the fire. Battery to sustain big friges (80L & 45L combo & lights.) Longest stay was 7days of nothing with temperatures barely dropping below 30 degree Celsius, had zero issues. Increase your solar panel to +150W because during daytime those friges run full time! If you are on the move, alternator keeps charges full. Enjoy the bush! Mom does less cooking and more relaxing! Keep your good stuff coming, love it!! Bucket list is to come do the Kimberley's, with some good fishing! If only we had such good fishing inland! Best for 2022!! Stuff covid....go camping
I run 2 200ah lithium battery set up with 40amp redarc bc/dc solar charger with 300w solar panel on top of my canopy and never run out of power even when running my coffee machine and weeks in the bush camping.
Good video and some good plain English analogies to explain some complex stuff. A few comments updates: Redarc is rolls Royce and super expensive so a ‘worst’ case scenario comparison A high end lifep04 battery can be got for half that price today. The one massive advantage nobody mentions is lifep04 has is it charges up in approx 40% of the agm equivalent. That’s 1-2 hours of sunlight versus all day The price per cycle number should be quoted more often as lithium is now about 30% of agm You’re fridge running experiment was summarised with ‘twice the life’ of agm; not sure ‘life’ is the correct term. Perhaps ‘run time’?
At the moment, a good quality 120amp AGM works for my needs. I'm a weekend warrior, or long week ends when they come about. My VSR and solar panel / blanket keep the AGM "topped up" for my needs. My only major voltage draw is my fridge & TB oven. The oven is only used while mobile, and the AGM and solar will keep my fridge going for long weekends. I don't need coffee machines or microwave ovens, or other non essentials, and I use battery powered tools, if needed. When, and If, Lithium batteries become more affordable, I will probably convert to them, but not until then.
Draining the AGM compared to Draining deep cycle marine? Trolling motors Draining the battery next to dead ? How do they compare and is the damage risk comparable to AGM and the recharging life cycles? 🤔
I have amg batteries and they do better in the cold. I've been researching battery warmers for lithium batteries because I think lithium batteries have the advantage otherwise. Thanks for the video.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
With my budget my 12v system comprises a torch,a campfire and an esky
Just need a farm jack and your set.
And you would still be happy with a cold beer around the fire mate 🤙
@40 72 🤣Nothing wrong with that. That's how I started 25 years ago. Then I got an upgrade and got myself a headtorch. 😁
@40 72, You did better than me compared to when I started camping. You had an esky? That's luxury camping. 😄
@@fatmanoverlanding glamping
I’m not a 4 wheeler guy but considering Lithium for my boat. Excellent job mate. Such a professional delivery. I hope you’re using your presentation skills to earn money. You answered everything I needed to know.
This video is great however lifepo4 is light-years better than a lithium battery at slightly more weight. They have 6-seven times more discharge cycles before having to replace them so instead of 500 cycles to get to 80% capacity they have 3000 cycles to get to 80%. :)
Also instead of having some complicated system where you buy the battery and then having to wire everything together I would just rather get a bluetti lifepo4 generator/battery. They make a really great one for 1500 bucks if you are a serious Overlander or buy the EB 55 for medium tasks
THIS EXPLANATION IS THE BEST EVER
so clear, so informative, and easy to understand
regards from Indonesia
The best, most straightforward explanation of Lithium vs AGM I've seen. Nice one!
Wow! This is the best battery comparison video on UA-cam - by a long shot.
UA-cam is doing well... Shauno has 10k+ in batteries and charger setup. Pretty epic setups
Must be under cutting his workers, insulated shed while jock basically works in the rain on his cars haha
I have utilised 120amp hour AGM in caravan since 2004. In that time we have done weekend trips, fortnightly runs and 8 week vacations.
They have given us 7.5 years service from each. They have always been awesome, running electric blankets, coffee pod m/c, sandwich toaster lights, fans etc., however we have just retired and plan on utilising the van more extensively with an addition of a washing m/c. hence began investigating lithium.
Decided on Itech 120 and cannot believe just quickly it recharges, basically as soon as the solar panels (4 X 64watt amorphous) see sun light the battery is back to full capacity, so along with better operation we have reduced our weight.
As a result we purchased 3 x 54amp hour Itech units to replace our AGM units in our Patrol. Same result, superior recharge time and great weight saving over 3 X AGM.
Now to see how long these units last as they need to justify $ layout.
Thanks Shaun, you have given us confidence we have taken the correct action.
Glad we could help out!
Ian Weal, can I ask what your doing with three 54 amp batteries in your Patrol. 54 amp is really low
@@trevorspeedy6333 it's all about storage space and capacity, a single 100amp hr unit in AGM wasn't sufficient, so I utilised 3 X 48amp hr AGM in the initial storage design. These worked fine, but recovery was slow, hence we installed BCDC charging, and whilst better, it was still slow to recover and when I elected to go lithium it was obvious I'd have to use batteries with same casing size to fit in predestined storage space, hence 54 amp hr lithium, that equates to 162 amp hr, nothing trivial about that capacity and they recover faster than the AGM counterparts of 144 amp hr.
A good compromise all round.
@@ianweal3081 how do you go about charging them in Parallel with the three batteries. Are you going from closest positive to furtherest negative or are you using bus bars and identical length leads to each battery. I’d be interested to know how even the charge up and run down is with three batteries.
Hospesis!
I have had the same shorai lithium battery in my gsxr 1000 going on 12 years.
I balance it once a year, takes 5 mins and still reads perfect 100% .
I've been running LifePo4 cells for 5 years now. 1st up was a 400ah pack I built with 16 x 100ah cells in our caravan. Yes they cost a bit, but the weight savings (~52kg vs ~200kg) and what they could run over lead acid it was a no brainer.
I had 5 x 250watt 36 volt solar panels on the roof, Midnite solar controller and a 2000 watt Projector sine wave inverter. The system could run our Fujitzu 6kw inverter (inverter split system, max draw at 22 degrees was ~960 watt) domestic split system all day long plus the tv, 255 liter 240 volt sumsung inverter fridge, lights etc and still have 80-90% soc by dusk.
I now use 200ah of that LifePo4 pack in my 4wd, 1 x 250watt 36 volt solar panel, mppt solar controller. My 60 liter fridge/freeze is on 24/7, hasn't been turned off for at least a year. Also run a 1000 watt Projector sine wave inverter which will run my small Boc inverter arc welder and small grinder, small 240v air compressors etc.
Lead acid just can't do what a lithium can.
Well said i will like your comment, shame they gone round liking the agm comments only shows this video is a sales pitch not advice
Good one Shauno, enjoyed watching the deep technology comparison between the two, please do more of these side by sides. Nice graphic works too. Cheers
AGM batteries discharge must faster and hold less power but unlike lithium ion phosphate batteries they can be rapidly discharged or charged, if you do that to lithium ion battery you will ruin it, this is exactly why you must never connect them to an alternator, way to many amps, this is not a proper for flooded fibreglass lead acid cells.
Shauno's 12v system on his LC200 probably cost more than my entire rig. 🤯😲
🤣
:)
Yes.
I bet it cost him nothing ;)
USA. Indiana. Just purchased our first RV Fifth wheel. Prep for Solar with one AGM. As we outfit I have to decide more AGM or just go to Lithium get over the pain of cost. As a qualified Electrician I’m refreshing my knowledge and learning what’s new in the low voltage world. Your videos are spot on. Sub thank you
Had problems with a well known brand lithium. BMS played up in hot temps, shut the battery down and wouldn’t charge etc. No good in the middle of nowhere. Also can’t determine what SoC lithiums are from volt reading and need to spend more money on a battery monitor. Gone back to AGM and no BMS to worry about and totally reliable. SoC easily determined by volt reading. No noticeable difference to vehicle performance carrying the extra 15kg in weight either. Twenty years of travelling and there was no difference to my trips having a lithium compared to AGM. BMS in lithium batteries need improving so maybe in a couple years I’ll go back to lithium. Just my 2c worth
5 years running LifePo4 cells, no BMS, no issues. Have a Victron battey monitor for soc.
@@feral4mr2 8 years running mine (lifepo4). Sounds like Jedda Dog bought one with a cheap BMS...
@@feral4mr2 what is a soc?
@@AdmissionGaming State of charge. The percentage of charge the battery has between 0% - 100%.
@@AdmissionGaming state of charge
I’m an electrician and wanted some real world info on these 2 batteries for a project.
Best video ever, you covered everything and tested everything perfectly.
I’m subscribing even though I don’t 4wd.
Battery selection of AGM vs Lithium is very specific for use. For a trolling battery it’s excellent when paired with a proper charger. For a starting battery it’s a very bad idea. Lithium is typically output current limited and a starter can overwhelm the battery. Also lithium batteries will hungrily accept a charge and can overwhelm many alternators. There are ways to adapt to them but in most cases they are not easily interchangeable.
You cant charge a lithium battery from your alternator. You need to run it through a dcdc charger.
One disadvantage with Lithium batteries that you missed, and it is an important one for people in colder climates, like us Canadians, is that you can't charge them when they are below freezing, 0° C, or 32° F for the Americans. Most good quality Lithium batteries will have a low temperature cut off on their BMS, but virtually all of the cheaper Lithium batteries don't. Charging them below freezing damages your Lithium battery, and can dramatically reduce their life. Some models of Lithium batteries that are designed for colder climates have an internal heating element in them that kicks in to warm the battery up if you start trying to charge it when the temperature is below freezing...I know off the top of my head that both Battle Born and Renogy have versions of their batteries with that ability, there are probably others as well.
True, but hes a queenslander, and we dont get really cold weather :)
@@2157AF and heat, can't fit it under bonnet due to heat
He's generally talking to Australians and what we call cold here would probably make you laugh. Also old mate just mentioned heat. That's why it's kept in the cabin or in the back. We would never stick a Lithium in the engine bay
@@christopherwhitney2711 winter in Vic especially in the south east gets below 0°c and will freeze bin lids shut.
@@jollymadness6882 I'm an Aussie. Are you trying teach me to suck eggs? Don't bother, I'm sitting in Tassie right now, and I live in Qld usually. So I get the angle sunshine.
Great video and simple explanation. The one thing that people also need to take into consideration is that AGM are easily recycled back into new Batteries. Lithium batteries are very hard to dispose of at the end of the life. So there is an environmental impact at the end of the life of the battery.
Lithium are recyclable
Lithium iron phosphate should be more recyclable from what I understand as the chemistry is simpler, but there are upcoming ways that will address all of that to be sure. 😊🌎✨
Beauty video boys! Great explanations!
It is on its way to Victoria BC Canada as we speak but I went with a portable setup. A shop in Perth mods National Luna battery box (which are really hard to get here and waay pricey) with the Redarc 25 amp dc/dc charger, preps the box for solar and 12v vehicle charging with Andersons . I sourced a North American pure sine 500 watt inverter and a lithium 100 amp/hr battery which I will slam in here! Also went with a solar blanket to stay very portable! I am chomping at the bit to get my hands on it and prep my Lexus GX470/Prado Grande 120( no diesel , 5 spd , rats! Lol. Can’t complain though. It turned over 450 000km two weeks ago! Knock on wood!)
Love the Aussie touring setups and equipment! Been a fan of 4wd Action /24/7 since the late 90’s. Love the content!
Keep it up! Cheers!
Hi shauno, once again great content keep it coming, everything is down to budget, and especially if your an AGM guy the charger is vital, alternator charging via relays are not great as the regulation to the battery is off, a good charger is the way to go, for both lithium and AGM, some AGM are rated for 10 years but you really need to pamper it and not just shove in the boot and hope for the best. Again with lithium a very good BMS is needed, you know the saying ‘’you buy cheap, you buy twice ‘’. Greetings from Ireland keep up the good work.
As always an awesome in-depth explanation with a comparison that chimps like me can understand. Your high-school essays must've been off the charts Shauno!
Pretty helpful and fair video! Def should mention how freezing cold is no good for charging a lithium! Running an ebay special setup! Not the most reliable of bits and pieces but for under 600 usd including a solar panel it gives me all the capacity to run lights and change small devices I could need!
You can run lights and charge devices with a 60 watt folding panel and a couple of USB power banks.
Thank You. Great review. I have an old Skil 14.4 Volt lithium Drill I bought years ago. Just got it out and it still Runs. Charging it now.
An EXCELLENT video! Professionally shot and edited, full of useful information without unnecessary fluff. Keep up the great work, gentlemen.
@repentandbelieveinJesusChrist9 Right back at 'ya!
Put a Service body Canopy on the back of my Ranger Put in 2 100ah Lithium batteries but kept the charging simple using a Redarc bcdc 40 but also have a 240 setup using a Victron charger both running thru a smart shunt and can see everything on the phone running a engel 110 upright passenger side and a engle 60lt as a freezer/ Beer fridge driver side. Your vid has confirmed that going this way was the right move even thou the initial outlay was substantial. Love going to the river for the weekend and the wife has the food fridge and i have the beer fridge we both happy as i like having the drinks at 1C lol. Great vid as always well done Shauno
The 50 percent myth is a big issue in the 12 volt world. A typical AGM has a life time of say... 2000 cycles If you discharge it to 50 percent. If you discharge it to 80 percent you get 600-800. If you discharge it to 100 percent you get 200-300 cycles.
But.. unless you are camping every day for a year, your typical battery will get maybe 10-50 cycles a year. If you camp for half a year, yes, definitely lifetime starts to be impacted. But if you camp twice a year for 2 days? Thats 4 cycles. At 200 cycles, thats still 50 years. NO agm lasts 50 years even if you never use it. So just use your battery, unless its in a caravan and you live off the grid every day. Its not use protecting your AGM from deep discharge when the damn things still die within 5 years due to simple acid loss due to heat and lead erosion due to just.. sitting there.
The 50 percent "myth" as it is is for daily solar cycling off grid usage. For years on end. Camping agms can be discharged to 80 percent and still last as long as if you did it to 50 percent, and you get 30 percent more usage, so thats 30 percent more effective power for exactly the same price.
USE your battery... its got a rating on the side and that is what its rated to deliver before dropping into usless voltage territory. If you plan on using it for a year in a caravan, stick to 50 percent, but if you do that to a camping battery in a plastic box? You are simply throwing away battery capacity for no reason at all. The battery will still die eventually, and you have gone camping 10 times. So use it to 80, 90 percent even. Its capable of it. Thats why the rating is on the side that says 100ah. If AGMs were useless past 50 percent... then they would be marked with 50 ah.
Im fully prepared for any questions... but you cant argue the fact that there are no 50 year old agms... and reducing the life of your battery means nothing if its already got a limited lifetime. If you "save" your battery so it only lasts 20 years instead of 40 years... but will still die in 5.. what are you saving for?
It's hard to use less than 12 volts anyway I guess. Especially at high current draw. I think most people will use it if they need, only they plan thier needs to be above 50%. It's possible if you flatten it completely that you lose a significant part of capacity, the next day you may not have enough to last you.
AGM and all lead acids are archaic, once you go lithium there is no going back to those relics of the past.
AGM for the win.
What about self discharge, agm cells wont be fully charged a week after charging them month much worse but the lithuim would still hold full charge, Byd blade cell 138ah 30000 cycles now thats a cell you want.
Love the logic here!
We run complete lithium setup now. Lithium cranking battery and 480ah of iTechworld lithium deep cycle! works a treat and can run the aircon off them all day. the 120ah itechworld bats only weigh 11kg. Lithium is the way of the future but they are still so expensive
You can build a 280ah useable Lifepo4 battery that weighs 20kg for around $1,200 or 105ah for about $550 (with bluetooth BMS). You can charge these at 0.5c until almost full which is just over 2.5 hours. Your AGM will take 5-10x longer than that
and the morons that build them wrong = fire!
15:00 this is not an inconsequential observation. Given that most battery BMS require recharge from a battery charger (not a solar charger which will expect some visible voltage in order to pass current to the circuit. some DCDC chargers also expect to see a completed circuit to charge). this means if your BMS cant be physically reset, you may be stuck in the middle of nowhere requirinf 240V to kick the BMS back into life.
With the price gap so high Shauno it might be better to invest in another solar panel to compensate the 50% discharge limit by just pumping in more energy.
Only if you buy high priced Redarc
The quality AGM products allow for 100% DOD. Even reputable flooded batteries can go down 80%.
I mentioned to you about running an induction cooker vs Gas at the Perth 4x4 show 2022.
You answered me with . It depends on the battery manage system.
Now watching this video, it is worth it. Not having to worry about gas refills.
Replenishing water would mean seeking a source.
What if you applied this concept to a caravan then you could find a sunny spot and relax for weeks on end before moving on.
Great Vid Shauno 👍
Great video & very informative. One cost that wasn't included though is if you're swapping from an old AGM system to a new lithium you may need to upgrade your charger to suit.
Zero gravity batteries don't require you to install additional equipment
My big question - how would a lithium battery handle a 10,000lb winch? Plan to put in engine bay and use to run winch when need and camp appliances on board truck. Truck will do trails and camp mostly weekend type trips but the occasional week 🤠
I run a 100ah lead acid deep cycle and voltage relay. Sets me back about $300 in total. Ultimate budget setup.
By budget you mean initial cost?
There are now 100ah LiFePO4 batteries for around $300. And you'll actually get 100ah. You can buy a 50ah LiFePO4 battery to save money. You'll have the same usable charge as before, but it'll be far lighter.
I find it strange that people are so bent on only looking at the initial cost.
@@GTrainRx7 Yup... imagine buying the very cheapest used Range Rover you could find to save money? 😂
Great video on the differences, my take as follows.
If you move often when camping or have a generator handy and weight is not an issue, AGM all the way it is more cost effective.
If you like to camp in one spot for quite a while off grid, don't need or want to carry a generator, need to run a bigger inverter and/ or weight is an issue, lithium batteries are a revelation.
Having converted to Lithium a lot less time worrying about and managing power drain and charging. So fast to return to full charge gives the ability to handle a series of cloudy days without limiting power draw to the point of turning off fridges or having to run a generator. If they suit your application, you can afford it and have set them up correctly - definately more smiles to the mile.
There is one point more for cons. The discharge and charge of Lithium during frost. Discharge is generally possible until-15/20°C but for charging you need something around -5°C. In Australia maybe not an issue and/or if your Battery is inside the Vehicle.
My Battery is in the back of my Hilux and is a AGM from Optima wich is allready working for 8 years. But i like to replace it by Lithium just to try it.
Thx for a really good Video!👍
Brgds 🙋🏻♂️
There are heated ones on the market. And for DIY batteries you can apply heating pads and BMS that controls these ..
I'm from Russia and I've never heard about lithium batteries in cars. Decided to google why and yes, you answered my question - it doesn't work in cold. In my city in winter it can be -20 -30 quite commonly. And my region isn't that cold. So unfortunately all of this is just an aussie story...
@@Stalinko from Finland, hi. If you run a gasoline car that heats up well, you should still have no problem. At least my 4 liter Jeep still has all hot engine bay so it will be able to charge! Also people seem to block the ventilation from engine bay during winter and some wrap up even normal batteries in some thermal covers. But lithium will most probably do always at least as well as an AGM. Friends even run cars on 2kg motorcycle lithium batteries!
@@tuomassoukka1967 sounds good and would make sense if it wouldn't have costed 10x of the agm battery price)
Btw I have a diesel land cruiser 100, so anyway no sense in my case
@@Stalinko Here in Europe it becomes popular. But the most People install the Battery inside the Vehicle. In this case it works at least in the mild winters in the last years.
I don't know how it works in Scandinavia.
Brgds to Russia! 🙋🏻♂️
An excellent comprehensive comparison between Lithium and AGM batteries. This along with the 1000s of other videos in UA-cam that's already covered this topic, does not convince you that Lithium is the go, I don't think nothing will.
you're welcome to prove your absolute truth in cold weather..
@@jarkkoseppanen899 I'm only looking at this from an auxiliary battery setup (for Australian conditions). Not for the cracking battery. For that, I will still go with AGM. In AUS, we rarely see very low temps (ie. -20c), where the lithium will start to compromise its performance. For us in AUS, it's the heat that's our biggest challenge for lithium.
Interested to know what happens/each scenario with both/either when they explosively fail, any chance of a report on that? Especially with Lithium no being recommended being in the engine bay, what happens in say a 76 series wagon?
I didn’t know that and I was thinking of replacing my start and house batteries in my boat with lithium batteries to save weight and space. The batteries are mounted in the engine compartment. Perhaps I’ll just stick to the lead acid type.
The newer style LifePo4 lithium battery technology is very safe, they are not the same chemistry as Lithium Ion cells found in phones and smaller devices and don't run-away thermally like the lithium Ion cells can
they way technology is moving in the lithium world, this will be a non issue soon enough, they already have new designs to help to minimize issues with fire and over heating.
After running two solid systems with lead acid and AMG plus gel. I finally bought my very first Lithium battery. Until I test it I will become an 100% believer in Lithium batteries. What I have been threw and now these studies are out. I am sitting at an 90% believer in Lithium batteries and I am supper excited for my very first Lithium battery to come in. Thanks for the information.
Great video. Can totally tell you don't need to worry about leaving batteries in vehicles that are below freezing for 4-6 months. Let alone daily highs of -30 or lower for an entire month. I wish I could switch to Lithium but life in the Canadian prairies means AGM for a while yet.
Yeah but it'd gets 150°f in cars here. Equally as bad.
Umm Teslas drive around here no problem.
@@justsomeguy6474 typical Tesla owner probably has them in a garage, most likely heated, if they live anywhere cold. In December I picked up an Odyssey AGM when temperatures dropped below -40°C and my 6 year old Northstar wouldn't start in the mornings. Will keep an eye on lithiums though. My brother has one for his truck's stereo.
@@4LilyPad Tesla owners like myself still go to movies and supercharger stations are never indoors. In Denmark(the artic circle) Teslas are the number one selling vehicles. The cold weather myth is just that.
@@justsomeguy6474 thank you for real world feedback. Much appreciated
Had a terrible time wrapping my hands around the new Lithium upgrade (to our Casita travel trailer) my husband did. This really helped. Thank you.
I’ve been looking at this exact thing for my setup! Good to see the outcome.
Can't fault it mate!
@@4WD247 only down fall is they can't handle the current draw (amps)
For running a winch or starting the car otherwise brilliant
@Ray Johnson cheers mate👍🏼 I might look into that too!
G'day Shaun,
I believe you failed to mention an important point about the batteries that some people may not be aware of , that is lithium is not suitable for the under bonnet temperatures and not suitable to be your main start battery or your back up battery in a dual battery setup whereas the agm is suitable for this situation and is commonly used as such .
So that is a real bummer due to the weight of two agm batteries under the bonnet and the rather rapid use by date ! I know, maybe if we wrap some pink batts around the lithiums then put them under the bonnet in a two battery situation win win ! it could work ? yes, maybe, ok I know i'm dreaming but think of the bonuses ! if only they can improve lithiums to be able to handle heat everyone will be happy campers . great videos keep up the good work . cheers
G'day Shauno, great coverage on a commonly asked question mate, we run 2 X 300 AH AGM batteries hooked-up in 24V, & those big bastards weigh 100kg each.
However I do prefer to run the AGM simply on the price gap, when the Lithium becomes more affordable I would make the switch.
Check out byd blade cell thank me later.
I don't think prices will come down much until lithium is replaced.
Look at cordless tools the batteries are still really expensive to say there's just a handful of 18650 batteries in them
100kg/300ah? get two 240ah, they're only 50kg/battery.. 100kg/each, lol!
I hear you re price. I wonder what you would save on fuel over the life time of the battery when comparing AGM v lithium? Would offset some of the up front costs of lithium maybe 🤔 ?
Have you looked into DIY LifePo4 prismatic cells, I just built a 304ah 12v pack the camper, all materials cost just over $1000, and weighs 27Kgs.
My set up is a Red arc manager 30 with red vision and 400Ahs of lithium , 3000W inverter . Can run kettle ,coffee machine , induction cooking and microwave and an electric blanket if I want of the inverter and the usual stuff from 12 Volts like travel buddy, fridge, lights etc. I just wanted something simple to operate no hassles and it is . But the cost was around $10.000.
I have a 100amp hour Volta X lithium battery purchased on ebay. Got it for $385 delivered on a sale a year or so ago. My cfx65 still has over 13volts after 12hrs of being a beer fridge. Very happy
I run the same battery, it's a solid performer. Outbax sell them
Voltage means nothing with lithium
How's the Volt X lithium battery performing to date? Good? I'm also considering getting a Volt X. But they have two types, one is colour coded green and the other in purple. Which one did you get?
@@fatmanoverlanding They usually change up their design every year.. I'm running the 200Ah "green" VoltX and it happily ran 3 x 50L fridges, charged 8 phones/tablets, ran the radio for 7 days at Bathurst this year. The tests I've seen show they're not bs'ing their ratings either.
I should note than you should check their discharge current as they are on the "lower" side, if you're looking for something to run a high powered inverter, might not be the go for you.
@@fatmanoverlanding i got the green one
A few battery terminals there that need covers; wouldn’t like to accidentally drop a spanner on them.
Nice video. I did a blog on the similar merits of lithium vs AGM when I worked for Victron Energy. I’m retired now and did that blog maybe 7 years ago and came to similar conclusions as you.
Maybe one thing you could have added was a bit about chemistry and pros on cons of those, say LiFePO4 vs NMC.
In my motorhome I approached things slightly differently for ease. I kept the Gel based lead system and made effectively a Go solution, so I had 5kWh of NMC with BMS, a 2kVA inverter (1,600 Watts continuous at 25C) with combined charger called a Victron MultiPlus and solar plugin. It was all about weight and ease. I simply spliced into the shore cable downstream of the shore supply on the vehicle, effectively taking shore power with you when disconnected. That kept the Gel charged until the Go pack ran out and the lithium energy pack could be topped up with solar as could the Gel. The pack was ‘portable’ and could be used for other off grid uses.
All in all it saved a complete redesign of the system and when I sold the vehicle I simply lifted out my Go pack.
Shauno and Graham should do a road trip from Googs Track, to Uluru, to the Kakadu go through Cahils Crossing and go to the Simpson's desert on the way back.
We are located at NSW and we just came back from a 3 week trip. We went from Sydney to Adelaide, went to Cobber Peddy through Port Augusta, went to the Painted Desert in Oodnadatta (hottest town in Aus), went to Uluru & Olgas, went to Alice, up to Katherine then Darwin, from Darwin to the Kakadu (Jabiru), tried to go to Cahils Crossing was fully flooded bc of the wet season, went to Jim Jim Falls, went back home via Warumungu, to Camooweal, Mount Isa, Winton, Longreach, Cunnamulla, Bourke to Dubbo then Dubbo to Sydney.
3 weeks many not be enough time to enjoy every place as we had 12hr days of driving.
Yes
120ah agm in under tray box, red arc dc dc charger, victon 1500w inverter. Perfect setup for me. Can run induction cooker and fridge. Even a sandwhich press at times. Never missed a beat in about 3 years so far.
Just one quick question. An AGM battery can go through a rejuvenation process basicly making the old battery like new again. Can this be done with lithium?
If you have prismatic cells then individual cells can be pulled out and replaced, simple job really
AGMs cant do this. You can not rejuvenate AGMs as their wear is a physical process that can't be reversed. The lead sulphate crystals are not conductive and slowly replace the active material, and not only that are physically bigger in size and slowly crack the lead plates. You can't uncrack lead with a chemical process or a fancy electronic signal. There are chemicals and processes out there that can temporarily give them a bit of a boost, but all you are doing is accelerating their wear even faster and they always fail. Flooded cells are even worse as the active material falls to the bottom of the cell. You can't electrically pick up that lead and put it back in the plates.. its at the bottom of the cell.
@@colinsmith6340 you're wrong. I've done it multiple times already mate. Look for the projecta pro-charge. I got the 16A vertion. Also get a solar battery and system tester. The charger has a rejuvenate setting on it that is made to break down the sulphate crystal build up. It takes 24 hours and may need to be done more than once depending on build-up. The battery tester if used correctly will tell you what your cold crank amps are at and can do load tests and other to see if your battery is OK or not.
@@colinsmith6340 this is not correct. A good battery charger with a agm rejuvenation option (ctek) can do a great job at bringing it back to near new.
@@GarageSupra Thanks mate, i will check into that. I have never trusted the "fix any battery" things you hear about, but CTEK doesn't mess around. Will read up on it.
Great video, There are still other battery options LiFePO4 and Ni-MH which all have there limits but depending on application can be great. Ni-MH are good if your equipment sits around as they can recharged from basically zero without any real problems, LifePoe4 batteries good for solar storage or large storage for longer trips.
I love new technology but things like Li-ion batteries but anything goes wrong you could loose your car quick or get hurt so its always about risk factors.
Everyone has there preference but why some people still like old school maybe heavy but withstand the test of time and don't need no fancy electronics to keep you safe
AGM and other lead acid batteries can have several times the number of charge/discharge cycles if you use the right charger. a proper charger will remove all the build-up on the plates that reduce the life span of the battery. the problem is typical chargers don't actually "completely" charge the battery they stop short which leaves the sulfate to build up on the plates. sulfation builds up on the discharge cycle and can be totally removed on a "complete" recharge. this is how lead acid batteries are reconditioned to practically new.
If that was true then big business would be doing it instead of replacing $10 k worth of batteries every 2 years in ups systems .
@@chrisward5626 maybe they should be 🙂
Pretty sure big business knows more tricks then some youtube hack . Its simply a myth scam to recondition lead acid batteries .
@@chrisward5626 LOL. wow, that's just dumb and uneducated, (unless you work for a supplier of new batteries to businesses) this isn't some youtube hack, the principle has been around for years, it's just not widely promoted because strictly speaking it wouldn't be good for battery sales in general. go do your homework, you might find yourself a little more educated after a bit of research.
@@MrTubeuser12 lol it is some fake hack . Not sure how many batteries you have ever pulled apart but once sulphated it degrades the plates and they dont fix themselves .
Greetings from South Africa. Excellent review mate. Learned a lot - especially the BMS.
Hey Shaun. Awesome explanation!
One thing you didn't really touch on is the need to have some form of battery monitor on a lithium battery in order to know its state if charge which is an extra cost. Cheers.
You can still estimate the state of charge by the voltage but the range is much tighter for lithium being from 100% @ 13.8v to 40% @ 13.1v. Like all batteries should not be under load before you take a reading
@@PeterPaoliello Very true. But for the average bloke an energy meter/battery monitor makes it alot easier. When you start talking about percentages vs SOC measured without load it can get a bit confusing. 👍
@@orb1talnz from my experience I found that more difficult to track with an in/out AH meter as there's losses in the system the accuracy will drift over time, depending on the logic of the meter the battery will need to be brought up to 100% and/or drained to 0% for the meter to correctly understand the range (neither of which are good for the battery), plus with natural degradation of the cells capacity will change over time. It's a nice to have for sure, but voltage to me is the most accurate method. I have a printed and laminated table stuck near my voltage meter I use as a reference. Each to their own though. Cheers.
A good quality dc-dc charger will take care of this
You can do this for very little money
Solarking 120Ah LIFEPo4 + Redarc 40a charger + kickass 300w panels with the battery being in a portable box versatility is off the charts
Redarc gear is great but damn it's expensive. You can get a good quality 100ah lithium battery for around $500 if you look around. (There's plenty of UA-cam channels that test and dismantle cheap lithium batteries to check the quality etc and some are actually very good)
Try Victron then, I believe they are dearer, as they are marine focused. But have seen them in 4wd's.
But I've been known to be wrong before, so do some research.
Plenty of $500 100ah lithium's around that discharge at 100amps nowadays with Australian warranties - hell, I saw one that comes in a clear case so you can see exactly what's in it without having to open it up! Pointing people at $1500-$2000 is absurd in this day and age. Easy when you are given them for free I s'pose ....
We live on the road full time and change over to lithium batteries in our caravan and the ute too.
Best decision we made.
We have a 2000w inverter in the van and we can run our washing machine and other appliances easy without problems.
We change from 2x 120 agm to 2x 135 lithium in the van and we also put replace the 100amp agm to a 135 amp lithium on the ute.
The cost us $1500 each and 5 year warranty on each one.
Best money spent ever
OMG, would love your setup, but my wife kill me if I spent that much without even not knowing the cost, my guess around $6k to $7k, I will check out your video on it.
I needed to change out my 3 X 100ah AGM batteries after 4 years of use, did ok, but were never very good.
In the process of changing them out to 3 X 100ah lithium batteries found, they were wired up incorrectly which may have been the cause of poor battery performance while camping.
Now have my 3 X 100ah batteries, went cheaper brand, same as what was in my camper trailer, VoltaX, ($410 each) new Renogy 25ah lithium charger and boy it's bloody great.
I have at least 260ah of useful power, chargers very quickly, only use around 50 ah's per day/night and the solar panels put it all back the next day. And the weight saving, around 60kg.
Time will tell if these cheaper batteries last there 8 to 10 years, but at this price, if I got 5 or 6 I will be happy.
Found the VoltaX, its gone up $19
My wife left me for another woman 20+ years ago. Not unusual in Calif. So, I asked my doggy if she cared about me spending $$$$ on lithium batteries. She sat there wagging her tail with the smiley face on, so I guess it was OK.
@@kimmer6 that's the way to to it, hahaha.
Hi Shanno, I have a Mux. very little room for a second battery under the bonnet, so the auto elec recommended a Redarc 100amp go block. Saves on weight , runs the fridge and cpap machine all night. if i sell the car I can keep it for the next one. Redarc. Great choice
Being a Malaysian, the best system gotta be a system that doesn’t lighten my wallet like crazy. If a Redarc 100Ah cost 2K in Ozzie, it will cost nearly 8-10K in Malaysia, that’s a sum that many don’t earn 🥶
Many in Australia can't afford the Redarc prices either.
Come here to OZ Ying, you are Welcome !!!
I have a tight arse system of 2 x 75ah AGM batteries. They were ex-generator backup batteries and cost $50 each. Been running my fridge 24-7 for over a year now. Would love lithium but can't justify the expense.
Thanks for explaining these issues especially because no one else does!
Yes they're worth it, just not an enerdrive or redarc as they are ridiculously overpriced
You don’t drive a GreatWall do you?
@@Phil_McAvity hahaha
@@Phil_McAvity No, always had Hiluxs and Rangers.
The cells are all manufactured in China, the BMSs are mostly out of China or Taiwan. These are the suppliers all companies use.
I put together my own 100ah rated at 200A continuous draw for $600. Has been going daily for over 18 months with no issues
I assembled my own
@@HuntandFish cool story 👍
@@Phil_McAvity lol spend the extra on a brand name like redarc and you might as well drive a greatwall with a hilux badge
Perfect timing for me with this video. In the middle of trying to make the decision for my camper trailer now. Thanks dude, really helpful.
Glad we could help out 🙌🏻
Would have been good to emphasise that these are not the same type of lithium batteries used in mobile phones. I.e. There isn’t the fire / explosion risk
Chinese prismatic lifepo4 cells
Need I say more
There is a risk. They have safety features, but if it's crushed in a major accident it will probably explode.
How are they different? Why don't you name the difference in chemicals? Or in any way
I have built my car up to be a decent touring vehicle, I have gone with a decent DC-DC charger and a deep cycle battery for my second. I figured the entire cost of all that was huge enough. I can always go lithium later. To have the luxury of a dual battery system is the best.
As long as your dcdc charger has a lithium charge profile.
You forgot that you can't really mount a lithium battery in your engine bay due to the heat, and lithium batteries also don't like extreme cold weather either. People should also understand the risks associated with Lithium batteries and why it is so important to pair them with the correct charger and BMS.
These are Lifepo4 batteries not the dangerous Lithium cobalt or manganese. You will find Lifepo4 are very safe. But yes with all batteries heat is there enemy. And yes below zero is not good to charge lifepo4 either but in Australia that's not really an issue.
@@MrDingaling007 granted, but the audience isn't just Australian and they have been offroad in the snow a few times. To the average uneducated buyer lithium is lithium and he needs to know the risks
@@QuintinKruse indeed. in finland we get below 0 weather and lithiums just don't work. I did my research and ended up with a 235ah agm. it recharges whenever the engine is on, and combined with the starter agm, I have a total of 330ah. battery was about 400€ and the charger 150€. those will keep the beer cold and the car warm.
You Aussies do a damn good job of explaining stuff! Thank you!
I'm surprised you didn't mention the biggest "con" of LIthium batteries (other than the initial cost of purchase), and that is "heat". Lithium battery life will degrade much quicker and won't perform as well, if its constantly exposed to high temperatures. Making them unsuitable for under bonnet mounting. They're most ideal for in-car or in-canopy mount.
Best comparison video I've ever seen of these technologies. High production level & spot on explanations.
Oh Shauna. Don't forget the safety issue. When the lithium over heat and set fire to your rig. And yes I've seen it. Whole rig destroyed.
A very thorough presentation but there are a couple of other things to consider. Firstly, temperature. Lithium ion batteries do not take kindly to extremes of temperature, especially heat. This should be a consideration if you are planning a fixed installation in a hot environment. Lead acid/ AGM might be a better solution or using a portable battery pack. Plenty of Nissan Leaf owners have found out the hard way what heat does to a lithium ion battery. One of the big selling points of the Tesla range of vehicles is that their batteries are temperature controlled to ensure longevity. You wont get 4000 cycles out of a lithium Ion battery that spends its time in the hot Australian outback. In fact, you'll be lucky to get a tenth of that.
Another consideration is the state of charge when the batteries are not in use. Trickle charging an AGM using a solar panel or alternator to keep the battery "full" will optimise its life and you don't have to think about it. Lithium ion batteries, on the other hand, don't "like" to be stored at full or near full charge for extended times between use. Anodic plating occurs which greatly reduces the capacity of the battery in a fairly short period of time, i.e. 2-3 years, and can render the battery useless.
Lithium ion batteries are best stored at 50% capacity and in a cool environment which can make managing them a difficult proposition for many users.
Hope this helps.
What kind of heat are we talking about here?
@@carl8568 There are all sorts of temperature ranges bandied about but ideal ranges for operation (charge, discharge and storage cycles) are between 5-20 Celsius. Capacity becomes reduced outside of these temperature ranges which may or may not be a consideration. Shortened life can be expected at around the 40 C. mark for charge/discharge cycles and storage at 60+C. is considered harmful to the battery and potentially dangerous to the user.
Don't get me wrong, L-Ion batteries have a multitude of worthy applications and yours might be one of them.
I would suggest getting advice from someone other than a supplier or salesperson before installing one of these just below the roof of a metal box that is going to be left out in the hot Australian sun for extended periods.
As a side note, a friend of mine managed to kill one of two 18650 cells that he left in his ute a couple of weeks ago on a hot day. Yes, one survived, the other didn't. They're good but they're not bullet proof.
@@davidbrayshaw3529
Ok thanks. I'm considering an AGM setup in a caravan, it seems the lead acid will be slightly more tolerant to extremes in temperature.
YES lithium really is worth it! 👍
I just upgraded from sealed lead acid to a 100ah LiFeP04 battery and i love it!
Lithium all the way I reckon
Brilliant vid. Clever edits with the battery discharging animations. Thank you 🤙🏾
Makes you wonder how much Redarc donated to Shaun to push their product so much, also did not include cost of setup for Lithium(most times AGM charging setup will not work with Lithium, more expense upgrading), reading battery voltage, totally different to AGM (more expense for right monitor)
Would you consider doing your comparison. In northern Canada when the temperature is a balmy - 40 or 40 below zero.
Things you didn't cover:
Voltage does not mean anything with lithium. You need to instal a gauge that counts the amps drawn to calculate battery state of charge.
100amp lithium batteries can be bought for much cheaper than 1500 dollars. They start at 400. I'm a fan of redarc and have many of there products but I wouldn't buy there batteries or solar panels, pricing is ridiculous.
Lithiums don't like freezing cold conditions.
I’m in the market for a Lithium battery - to run my 44lb thrust motor on my inflatable. My back cannot handle the 30kg weight any longer of the AGM Battery 😆🤭 great video .. I’m sold 😀👌🏻 thanks
First?
Yup concrats
Curious about charging. In addition to the solar panels, do you also have to install a larger alternator? If so, how many amps? My Grandpa installed an extra alternator, 2 total. (and an air compressor) I think the 2nd alt was 70 amps (?) That was in the 60s and 70s. An old Dodge 2wd with a cab-over camper. Coffee makers weren't invented then, (I think?) but 12V coolers and refrigerators were. No rooftop AC, just fans and heaters.., and lots of gadgets.
One of the better explanations ... many other youtube speakers are way too long-winded.
Building a square drop camper at the moment, and thinking after watching this vid, to go for lithium. Seems to be more economical longterm. Thanks for the info. 👍
Really well presented Shaun with very comprehensive info. Oh, and great analogy used. Thanks mate.
Glad you enjoyed it
This is a top quality video mate, well done!
What would be a good set up for a Small 4x4 Rig? Small being a 2 door wrangler, Samurai, where space isn’t as optional due to the size of the Rig.
If Im understanding this correctly, I could potentially get double the run time with a lithium battery with the equivalent AH Lead Acid battery?
Yes. And the voltage on lithium stays up much longer than a lead acid,. Lithium batteries recover much quicker after removing a big load. Lithium charges fasted than lead acid as well. I had AGM's up until 2017 and now my projects are all lithium battery power.
Sounds like getting a smart charger would be a good investment for an agm battery.
I have one, and it has a desulfating feature. Not saying it will bring it back to almost new but I'd imagine it would also help lengthen it life.
I use just a standard battery in my truck. It sat for a week on -30 to -40 celcius and froze up. After thawing the battery out, I hooked up my smart charger and it brought the battery back to 98% charge and 88% health. The battery is a Kirkland battery and is 2 years old.
Thoughts about this?
How do you know that the AGM battery will be damaged if you discharge over 50percent? UPS devices have been doing that to SLA batteries for over 30 years. The SLA battery data sheet shows the specs with full discharge (being defined as dropping no lower then 10.8v)
Very educational cheers boys
I’ve got a AGM battery and it runs my fridge for about 2 days, when it dies I’ll get a lithium 🤙
Living in the states it gets too cold here to use lifepo4 all yr round. Recently dipped down to the teens. Had to pull my car audio batteries for the winter and just rely on the big boy agms
i will be getting back to you with real questions about marine app. I just spent $600 this morning on a AGM but it has not been installed yet. great video.
Hi Guys! Well, I'm in RSA, it gets hot in the Kalahari and Botswana, lithium doesn't like continous heat. Camping friends had lots of issues and loss of fresh food because lithium battery just failed in continuous heat. I have a 100aH gell battery, 10yrs to date, no issues, but I do need to chase the sun till last rays (7.45pm) and up at 5.30am, fairly short night. We don't use heavy drawing equipment such as coffe makers or cookers...we cook on the fire. Battery to sustain big friges (80L & 45L combo & lights.) Longest stay was 7days of nothing with temperatures barely dropping below 30 degree Celsius, had zero issues. Increase your solar panel to +150W because during daytime those friges run full time! If you are on the move, alternator keeps charges full. Enjoy the bush! Mom does less cooking and more relaxing!
Keep your good stuff coming, love it!! Bucket list is to come do the Kimberley's, with some good fishing! If only we had such good fishing inland! Best for 2022!! Stuff covid....go camping
I run 2 200ah lithium battery set up with 40amp redarc bc/dc solar charger with 300w solar panel on top of my canopy and never run out of power even when running my coffee machine and weeks in the bush camping.
Good video and some good plain English analogies to explain some complex stuff.
A few comments updates:
Redarc is rolls Royce and super expensive so a ‘worst’ case scenario comparison
A high end lifep04 battery can be got for half that price today.
The one massive advantage nobody mentions is lifep04 has is it charges up in approx 40% of the agm equivalent.
That’s 1-2 hours of sunlight versus all day
The price per cycle number should be quoted more often as lithium is now about 30% of agm
You’re fridge running experiment was summarised with ‘twice the life’ of agm; not sure ‘life’ is the correct term. Perhaps ‘run time’?
At the moment, a good quality 120amp AGM works for my needs. I'm a weekend warrior, or long week ends when they come about. My VSR and solar panel / blanket keep the AGM "topped up" for my needs. My only major voltage draw is my fridge & TB oven. The oven is only used while mobile, and the AGM and solar will keep my fridge going for long weekends. I don't need coffee machines or microwave ovens, or other non essentials, and I use battery powered tools, if needed. When, and If, Lithium batteries become more affordable, I will probably convert to them, but not until then.
Excellent analogy of deoth of discharge for the AGM.
The 80s set-up with a lithium is the go for myself as a weekend trip runner with coffee on tap 👌 😀
Draining the AGM compared to Draining deep cycle marine? Trolling motors Draining the battery next to dead ? How do they compare and is the damage risk comparable to AGM and the recharging life cycles? 🤔
I have amg batteries and they do better in the cold. I've been researching battery warmers for lithium batteries because I think lithium batteries have the advantage otherwise. Thanks for the video.