A heat breaking story. Yet Elrond remains “ kind as summer” and dedicated to the free peoples of middle earth. Tolkien teaches us a lot about processing grief.
@@ZephyrOptional for sure. That’s the one. Should also join my giant Tolkien & LOTR server too. Maybe I’ll put another gateway into an new community post?
tolkien was well ahead of his time when it came to depression which is something i really appreciate, for such an old book mental health is surprisingly central in the themes of the story. frodo, faramir, eowyn, denethor, celebrían and theoden just to name a few characters are all great examples of mental struggle, theoden especially is a favourite of mine since the story of him overcoming his struggle to achieve so much is really inspiring
@@LeWondermanjust cause that's what it was called & THOUGHT to have been doesn't mean that's what it was. Ultimately, it was/is a disorder which affected/s the mind. The physical effects come after
Technologically, most humans live in the year 2025. Our normal human emotional/psychological inheritance remains the same as our cave dwelling/Hunter gatherer ancestors.
Poor Elrond first he got separated from his parents when he was a kid, then his adoptive parents Maedhros commited suicide and Maglor went missing, his twin brother Elros became a human and died a human and his wife Celebrian was mentally broken that she had to go to Valinor. I think this kinda shows that Elrond is a tragic family man and for me this loss of family members is one of the main reasons why he didn't push Isildur in the fires of Mount Doom when he refused to throw the One Ring. He doesn't want to hurt a descendant of his twin brother or should I say one of his great ( 100x ) grand nephews who were among the only things in Middle Earth that reminds Elrond of Elros.
And also further explains why he's so against Arwen staying behind in Middle-Earth. Since their spirits (fea's) go to different places after death/sailing west they will NEVER see eachother ever again. Already understandable enough in itselve for a Father to not want to let go of his daughter, but with all this you've described I think we could almost praise Elrond for not going crazy and locking Arwen up (or something like that) when she made clear what she had set her heart upon
@@javie8439 At least on the bright side he was reunited with Celebrian and he still has his two sons Elladan and Elrohir as well as his parents in law.
I think part of the reason Tolkien decided to show what Celebrían went through was a nod to the effects of war. No one comes home the same after that or any sort of torture, at any age. Tolkien has a tendency to write each character with a specific aim in mind. With Celebrían, I think this may be a possibility.
I think her going was more for Him and her children than for herself. They were close and felt her pain to and that pain is So deep and rather than escaping her pain she wanted to separate it from them and go where he knew she would not be ending it by ending her life. Her killing herself would have cause him even more pain than he was already going through. Un seen wounds are the hardest to heal and can last... longest.
“Frodo, I know you are soon to leave this Middle-Earth for the Undying Lands of Aman to heal, but if you should encounter an elf woman named Celebrían there, tell her that her daughter has not forgotten her. Tell her that her love for her mother shall last for as long as the sun and moon are in the sky, and that the song of the mountains and rivers shall forever echo with the kindness and care and affection she gave to her children. I will never see her again, because my beloved is here, but I hope you will tell her this for me.” (I imagine Arwen telling this to Frodo before he leaves Middle-Earth, and if he finds her mother there, he would tell Celebrían all this. Though, I guess Elrond and Galadriel could tell her all that too…)
I don't think anyone can judge Celebrian for leaving. She obviously suffered from PTSD, and for some who endure such trauma, even being surrounded by loved ones may not be enough to help. The memory of the evil experiences never goes away.
I don’t think enough people fully appreciate the gravity of this situation. Celebrian wasn’t just some poor hapless victim. Sauron targeted her because he suspected she knew about the whereabouts of the rings of power and girlfriend did. BOTH her mother AND her husband had rings of power. Rings Sauron wanted. But through ALL of the torture she endured she never revealed them. Celebrian was strong as hell but she would’ve also been put through pure hell.
I agree. And remember that with elves, memories are not as with humans who, while they may recall events, those events are only a shadow of the real event. Wit elves memories are ever fresh and are so vivid that they are as real as the reliving the experience itself. This must have been cruelly devastating for her, reliving the torture in such an 'ever present' way time after time.
That's a big stretch which isn't supported by the text. Celebrían was captured by Misty Mountain orcs whom I doubt knew anything about the rings. If Sauron had targeted her, why wasn't she brought to Dol Guldur for questioning? He had returned there in TA 2460, about 50 years before. And I think he fully knew that Galadriel and Elrond had rings because they were the two most powerful elves left in Middle-earth.
I think Elladan and Elrohir finally left for the blessed realm after their sister Arwen passed away, there was nothing left for them to stay in middle earth, my hunch is that they left with their grandfather Celeborn when he finally left Middle Earth.
Some wounds never heal. Celebrian needed to go to Erresea as did Frodo in order to be healed of her mental anguish from the memories of torture by the orcs.
Elrond lost a great deal. First his birth parents, then his adopted parents, then his brother, and then his wife. But a small comfort would be that Celebrian would be waiting for him when the elves would make their final journey back to Valinor.
Given time all wounds heal even mental ones as a child I was mentally tortured and physically abused by an uncle I suffered flashbacks and it took years but finally I can’t honestly say I’m fine now
Also, this gives a clear motive for why Elrond wants to leave for the West, and why he would rather (at least in Jackson's film adaptation) have Arwen leave Middle Earth...
I’ve read a great deal of Tolkien and was already familiar with the tale of what happened to Celebrian that explains her absence from MIDDLE EARTH during the LOTR. I have always wondered something, however. *WHY* did Galadriel--the greatest elf-sorcerer of Middle Earth--why did she never teach Celebrian some of the magic that many centuries earlier the Maia Melian--who was merely a friend of Galadriel--taught Galadriel in order that she might one day rule over her own elf-realm? Galadriel’s magic is powerful to have protected the borders of Lothlorien for centuries (much as Melian’s magical “girdle” had protected Doriath long before), *and* Galadriel’s magic was mighty enough after Lothlorien repelled an attack of Sauron’s orcs and trolls coming from Dol Guldur to utterly *destroy* the dark fortress, bringing crashing down all its walls and “revealing all the evil pits beneath it.” So does Tolkien offer *any* explanation for why Galadriel seems not to have taught Celebrian *any* magic in all the decades they spent together, magic that would have allowed Her to *defend* herself when ambushed by orcs ?
the thing is that Galadriel herself was from Valinor , from the time of the Trees , and her one of the Elvish Rings to preserve and possibly enhance her magic.
@@phantasosxgames8488 i figured that Nenya had something to do with the answer, yet Galadriel learned magic from Melian during the First Age, just before she refused the Valar’s “invitation” for the Noldor to return to Valinor after they had been forgiven for the Kinslaying. Nenya wasn’t forged by Celebrimbor (without the help of Annatar/Sauron) until the Second Age, though. Your point that Galadriel dates back all the way to the First Awakening of the Elves in the Time of the Trees, though: that is well-taken. Thank you for reminding me of that!
How could she possibly have shared the power that her ring gave her? And how could she have shared what having gone to Valinor imbued her with? I think you are confusing Elven strength with physical power. If a troop of orcs attacked Galadriel in the mountains she couldn't just repel them with what you call 'magic' even with the ring on her finger. Look at Sauron. Even with the strength of the One Ring on his finger, it was cut off.
Alot of both Galadriel’s power and Elrond’s power comes from the fact that they are ring bearers. That can’t be taught. There’s no saying that Galadriel didn’t teach some of her magic that could be taught to Celebrian but without the ages of time and a ring of power she’d never be as powerful as Galadriel or Elrond. Celebrian wasn’t powerful enough to escape or defeat Sauron BUT she WAS powerful enough to resist…she didn’t reveal the location of either rings of power even though she knew that both her husband and her mother had one. That suggests quite a bit of strength both magical and otherwise.
It can be safely assumed that the twins of Elrond eventually sailed West. If an elf didn't eventually sail West, it's a good indication that something is amiss. Either within the elf's character or their priorities. No such issues are ever attached to Elros or Elrohir.
@@jonathonfrazier6622 Many of the first elves to wake beneath the stars thousands of “years” before the sun & moon. The Avari were as all elves were meant to: stay in middle earth. There ancestral homeland where they’d mentor the second born that became Mankind so they’d better become the next stewards of Arda. Which half of it was sunk to the bottom of the sea after the war of wrath and Galadriel hints to Fangorn (meaning bearded tree in elvish.) age will help him find Fimbrethil when Beleriand rises again, from the seafloor. Which is what happens after Dagor Dagorath. A second song of the Ainur next to the Elves, Men and Dwarves alike. The elves and men help reshape and rebuild the mountains and so forth alongside Aulë of The Valar.
Elladan and Elrohir could have chosen a mortal life though, they won’t suffer the same fate as other elves who choose to stay behind and eventually fade.
not everyone is mentally strong, and it is very stupid to think so, we all can handle abuse differently we are not all the same and anyone that thinks that needs a reality check!
Some pain is too great. Some anguish is insurmountable. Those who choose to leave us are not craven. They fought until the end. They left, yet they are still here❤
How could she recover, with the threat of Sauron's Orcs and other minions constantly around? Humans often don't recover from such trauma. But since we die of old age, it's easier to pretend otherwise. But Celebrien wasn't going to die from old age, and so her PTSD could never get better, especially with Rivendell and Lothlorien being targets for Sauron's forces.
I mean... her children are hundreds of years old. Even for elves, they are mature enough when she departs to understand that it is not an attack on them, abandonment of them, etc.
It stands to reason that the tortures were so severe that almost any person would off themselves even after rescue. Imagine the worst forms of torture that you can. Hers were as bad as that or worse.
I dunno how one could consider it selfish of her to leave Middle Earth because her family would continue to be burdened by worry if she remained, wouldn't they? It's not "abandonment" when the family is included in the decisionmaking and why would the family even object?
I think someone who has gone through such suffering such as the severe breaking of body and spirit isnt selfish for not being around to support other people. Whoever would place that demand on her either has gender problems or they themselves go beyond the definition of selfish. It is heartening to know that the full spirit of us can never be harmed or broken, but that higher reality is cut off, veiled, from us unless we are fully aligned with who we are beyond this temporary physical experience.
Elrond left to Valinor and reunited with his wife, Arwen lived out rest of her life with her beloved husband, Arwen's brothers if i had to guess stayed because of Arwen and her children i don't see any other reason as for other elves, after piece came to middle earth mirkwood elves never left so elves still live in middle earth. I think Elrond and Celembrian in the end found hapiness after so long because they knew their children found their place in the world and were happy.
Appreciate the detailed breakdown! Just a quick off-topic question: I have a SafePal wallet with USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (air carpet target dish off jeans toilet sweet piano spoil fruit essay). How can I transfer them to Binance?
If Tolkien didn’t write it then,just make up one or two or even three you like best. As long as you’re satisfied with it you will be happy no need for anyone to say or do. ❤❤❤❤
Celebrian was severely wounded when she was kidnapped by the orcs and saved by his twin sons, although Elrond had healed her fully, her tormented spirit yearned for the sea and left. They finally reunited when Elrond left the shores of Middle Earth at the end of the Third Age.
That’s the thing, Arwen obviously never went West as she chose a life of mortality. But with the twins, either they stayed and chose mortality same as their sister. Stayed and eventually faded, or as you say sailed West after some time.
I understand why elrond was so against Aragon/Arwens liason as he saw himself in it; Arwins mom had become half human etc an the same was now happening t Arwin I her live f Aragon
Rings of Power is kind of a mess in regard to timeline. In Tolkien's writings Celebrian is supposed to already have been born and to be centuries old by the time of Rings of Power's events. Galadriel is also over 1000+ years older than Elrond so it would be an elven version of a cougar woman getting it on with a younger boy.
Rings of Power is kind of a mess in regard to timeline. In Tolkien's writings Celebrian is supposed to already have been born and to be centuries old by the time of Rings of Power's events. Galadriel herself is also over 1000+ years older than Elrond so it would be an elven version of a cougar woman getting it on with a younger boy.
Okay, okay, STOP with the "very last ship" crap. Círdan will leave on the last ship, but it hasn't left yet. The Havens weren't abandoned when Bilbo left with Frodo, as Círdan was there nearly a lifetime later when Sam boarded, last of the Ringbearers. He would be there 'til the very end. The movies were wrong.
According to Lobelia Sackville-Baggins, Elrond’s wife dumped him for the Balrog, something about him being “on fire”. True story, I got it over some drinks at the Bird and Baby Inn with Ted Sandyman.
The numerous assaults over the years by the orcs resulted her giving birth to several orc elf offspring. These powerful offspring grew to lead the armies of the dark. It was shame that drove her away.
@@CBOANDALUCIA This is a common interpretation. During WWI period, writers could not use the word rape and it wouldn't be printed, so they used words like torment and torture. Offspring from such "torment" were called poison from a poisonous arrow. When rescued, her PTSD was so pronounced and the poison she bore so profound (offspring) that Elrond sent her across the sea. Another reason is he wouldn't touch her after she had had been "touched' by the Orcs. Put it all together, and it's a clear picture of what really happened.
@@Jayzilla-jr4fr Could be, but I think it's most like he can't use the rape word and be clear about it bc the hard morality of his times, more than the war itself, bc when he wrote the history of Beren and Luthien, he was more clear about that (Morgoth wanted Luthien in that way), than in the edited books by him.
The twins were born in the year 130 of the third age, soon after their parents marriage which took place in the year 109. Twenty years is really "soon after"!
A heat breaking story. Yet Elrond remains “ kind as summer” and dedicated to the free peoples of middle earth. Tolkien teaches us a lot about processing grief.
best version is much longer and by master of prose himself named Tolkien Untangled.
@@Makkaru112 Rainbow Dave?!
@@ZephyrOptional for sure. That’s the one. Should also join my giant Tolkien & LOTR server too. Maybe I’ll put another gateway into an new community post?
tolkien was well ahead of his time when it came to depression which is something i really appreciate, for such an old book mental health is surprisingly central in the themes of the story. frodo, faramir, eowyn, denethor, celebrían and theoden just to name a few characters are all great examples of mental struggle, theoden especially is a favourite of mine since the story of him overcoming his struggle to achieve so much is really inspiring
The dude served in world war 1, so he had ample experience to draw on the fragility of the mind.
@@TheSavvycaptaini mean at that time ptsd wasn’t in human mind 😂 it was called « shell shock » etc.
@@LeWondermanjust cause that's what it was called & THOUGHT to have been doesn't mean that's what it was. Ultimately, it was/is a disorder which affected/s the mind. The physical effects come after
Technologically, most humans live in the year 2025. Our normal human emotional/psychological inheritance remains the same as our cave dwelling/Hunter gatherer ancestors.
Poor Elrond first he got separated from his parents when he was a kid, then his adoptive parents Maedhros commited suicide and Maglor went missing, his twin brother Elros became a human and died a human and his wife Celebrian was mentally broken that she had to go to Valinor.
I think this kinda shows that Elrond is a tragic family man and for me this loss of family members is one of the main reasons why he didn't push Isildur in the fires of Mount Doom when he refused to throw the One Ring.
He doesn't want to hurt a descendant of his twin brother or should I say one of his great ( 100x ) grand nephews who were among the only things in Middle Earth that reminds Elrond of Elros.
Consider how many of the Dunadain before Aragorn that Elrond raised, fostered, and cared for...and had to mourn in turn. Poor Elrond, indeed.
And also further explains why he's so against Arwen staying behind in Middle-Earth. Since their spirits (fea's) go to different places after death/sailing west they will NEVER see eachother ever again. Already understandable enough in itselve for a Father to not want to let go of his daughter, but with all this you've described I think we could almost praise Elrond for not going crazy and locking Arwen up (or something like that) when she made clear what she had set her heart upon
@@colindunnigan8621
The Chieftains of the Northern Dunedain am I right?
@@javie8439
At least on the bright side he was reunited with Celebrian and he still has his two sons Elladan and Elrohir as well as his parents in law.
@@fallenaeon7084
Yup except it's not certain Elladan and Elrohir left Middle-Earth but overall happy ending
I think part of the reason Tolkien decided to show what Celebrían went through was a nod to the effects of war. No one comes home the same after that or any sort of torture, at any age.
Tolkien has a tendency to write each character with a specific aim in mind. With Celebrían, I think this may be a possibility.
I think her going was more for Him and her children than for herself. They were close and felt her pain to and that pain is So deep and rather than escaping her pain she wanted to separate it from them and go where he knew she would not be ending it by ending her life. Her killing herself would have cause him even more pain than he was already going through. Un seen wounds are the hardest to heal and can last... longest.
“Frodo, I know you are soon to leave this Middle-Earth for the Undying Lands of Aman to heal, but if you should encounter an elf woman named Celebrían there, tell her that her daughter has not forgotten her. Tell her that her love for her mother shall last for as long as the sun and moon are in the sky, and that the song of the mountains and rivers shall forever echo with the kindness and care and affection she gave to her children. I will never see her again, because my beloved is here, but I hope you will tell her this for me.”
(I imagine Arwen telling this to Frodo before he leaves Middle-Earth, and if he finds her mother there, he would tell Celebrían all this. Though, I guess Elrond and Galadriel could tell her all that too…)
I don't think anyone can judge Celebrian for leaving. She obviously suffered from PTSD, and for some who endure such trauma, even being surrounded by loved ones may not be enough to help. The memory of the evil experiences never goes away.
I don’t think enough people fully appreciate the gravity of this situation. Celebrian wasn’t just some poor hapless victim. Sauron targeted her because he suspected she knew about the whereabouts of the rings of power and girlfriend did. BOTH her mother AND her husband had rings of power. Rings Sauron wanted. But through ALL of the torture she endured she never revealed them. Celebrian was strong as hell but she would’ve also been put through pure hell.
I agree. And remember that with elves, memories are not as with humans who, while they may recall events, those events are only a shadow of the real event. Wit elves memories are ever fresh and are so vivid that they are as real as the reliving the experience itself. This must have been cruelly devastating for her, reliving the torture in such an 'ever present' way time after time.
That's a big stretch which isn't supported by the text. Celebrían was captured by Misty Mountain orcs whom I doubt knew anything about the rings. If Sauron had targeted her, why wasn't she brought to Dol Guldur for questioning? He had returned there in TA 2460, about 50 years before. And I think he fully knew that Galadriel and Elrond had rings because they were the two most powerful elves left in Middle-earth.
I think Elladan and Elrohir finally left for the blessed realm after their sister Arwen passed away, there was nothing left for them to stay in middle earth, my hunch is that they left with their grandfather Celeborn when he finally left Middle Earth.
Or they chose that of mortality like their sister
Good stuff Brother Love your content and your charity and perspective on Tolkien and his views! Keep em coming man! Love it! 🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳😎😎☕️☕️
Some wounds never heal. Celebrian needed to go to Erresea as did Frodo in order to be healed of her mental anguish from the memories of torture by the orcs.
Elrond lost a great deal. First his birth parents, then his adopted parents, then his brother, and then his wife. But a small comfort would be that Celebrian would be waiting for him when the elves would make their final journey back to Valinor.
Given time all wounds heal even mental ones as a child I was mentally tortured and physically abused by an uncle I suffered flashbacks and it took years but finally I can’t honestly say I’m fine now
Not all wounds, some become scars as reminders of such episode in one's life. I am happy you're healed😊
Also, this gives a clear motive for why Elrond wants to leave for the West, and why he would rather (at least in Jackson's film adaptation) have Arwen leave Middle Earth...
Thank you this explanation. Very well done. And I love the doggie!
I’ve read a great deal of Tolkien and was already familiar with the tale of what happened to Celebrian that explains her absence from MIDDLE EARTH during the LOTR. I have always wondered something, however. *WHY* did Galadriel--the greatest elf-sorcerer of Middle Earth--why did she never teach Celebrian some of the magic that many centuries earlier the Maia Melian--who was merely a friend of Galadriel--taught Galadriel in order that she might one day rule over her own elf-realm?
Galadriel’s magic is powerful to have protected the borders of Lothlorien for centuries (much as Melian’s magical “girdle” had protected Doriath long before), *and* Galadriel’s magic was mighty enough after Lothlorien repelled an attack of Sauron’s orcs and trolls coming from Dol Guldur to utterly *destroy* the dark fortress, bringing crashing down all its walls and “revealing all the evil pits beneath it.” So does Tolkien offer *any* explanation for why Galadriel seems not to have taught Celebrian *any* magic in all the decades they spent together, magic that would have allowed Her to *defend* herself when ambushed by orcs ?
the thing is that Galadriel herself was from Valinor , from the time of the Trees , and her one of the Elvish Rings to preserve and possibly enhance her magic.
@@phantasosxgames8488 i figured that Nenya had something to do with the answer, yet Galadriel learned magic from Melian during the First Age, just before she refused the Valar’s “invitation” for the Noldor to return to Valinor after they had been forgiven for the Kinslaying. Nenya wasn’t forged by Celebrimbor (without the help of Annatar/Sauron) until the Second Age, though.
Your point that Galadriel dates back all the way to the First Awakening of the Elves in the Time of the Trees, though: that is well-taken. Thank you for reminding me of that!
How could she possibly have shared the power that her ring gave her? And how could she have shared what having gone to Valinor imbued her with? I think you are confusing Elven strength with physical power. If a troop of orcs attacked Galadriel in the mountains she couldn't just repel them with what you call 'magic' even with the ring on her finger. Look at Sauron. Even with the strength of the One Ring on his finger, it was cut off.
Alot of both Galadriel’s power and Elrond’s power comes from the fact that they are ring bearers. That can’t be taught. There’s no saying that Galadriel didn’t teach some of her magic that could be taught to Celebrian but without the ages of time and a ring of power she’d never be as powerful as Galadriel or Elrond. Celebrian wasn’t powerful enough to escape or defeat Sauron BUT she WAS powerful enough to resist…she didn’t reveal the location of either rings of power even though she knew that both her husband and her mother had one. That suggests quite a bit of strength both magical and otherwise.
@@LeahMorrison-g4u Very true!
Another great video keep it up!!!
Thank you for sharing this part of the story.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🌹
It can be safely assumed that the twins of Elrond eventually sailed West. If an elf didn't eventually sail West, it's a good indication that something is amiss. Either within the elf's character or their priorities. No such issues are ever attached to Elros or Elrohir.
@@jonathonfrazier6622 Many of the first elves to wake beneath the stars thousands of “years” before the sun & moon. The Avari were as all elves were meant to: stay in middle earth. There ancestral homeland where they’d mentor the second born that became Mankind so they’d better become the next stewards of Arda. Which half of it was sunk to the bottom of the sea after the war of wrath and Galadriel hints to Fangorn (meaning bearded tree in elvish.) age will help him find Fimbrethil when Beleriand rises again, from the seafloor. Which is what happens after Dagor Dagorath. A second song of the Ainur next to the Elves, Men and Dwarves alike. The elves and men help reshape and rebuild the mountains and so forth alongside Aulë of The Valar.
Elladan and Elrohir could have chosen a mortal life though, they won’t suffer the same fate as other elves who choose to stay behind and eventually fade.
@@ArgonUA-cam I'm pretty sure Tolkien mentions them leaving for Valinor after tarrying in Rivendell after their father's departure.
@@jonathonfrazier6622 Where?
@@jonathonfrazier6622 Did he say that in a letter?
not everyone is mentally strong, and it is very stupid to think so, we all can handle abuse differently we are not all the same and anyone that thinks that needs a reality check!
😊well said
I have seen lots of Tolkien videos. Sadly, some are not very good. However, this one is EXCELLENT--very knowledgeable. Great job.
Some pain is too great. Some anguish is insurmountable. Those who choose to leave us are not craven. They fought until the end. They left, yet they are still here❤
How could she recover, with the threat of Sauron's Orcs and other minions constantly around? Humans often don't recover from such trauma. But since we die of old age, it's easier to pretend otherwise. But Celebrien wasn't going to die from old age, and so her PTSD could never get better, especially with Rivendell and Lothlorien being targets for Sauron's forces.
I think Thranduil also has a tragic story to tell even when it's not in the books.
I just cannot stress enough how perfect Kate Blanchette is as Galadriel. She's otherwordly.
Eh? I dunno many tolkien "experts" say that morfid clark is the perfect galadriel 🤣
@@summer7603 Why are you assuming I am talking about Rings of Power, dummy
Her and I Think Tilda Swinton would of been a good pick too, Tilda reminds me of an Elf
@@summer7603nope, she is the worst
@@Sabouma28 im being sarcastic 🤣
Using her as the main female protagonist in Rings of Power would have been way better.
Yes because she has a defined character arc.
I mean... her children are hundreds of years old. Even for elves, they are mature enough when she departs to understand that it is not an attack on them, abandonment of them, etc.
It stands to reason that the tortures were so severe that almost any person would off themselves even after rescue. Imagine the worst forms of torture that you can. Hers were as bad as that or worse.
I dunno how one could consider it selfish of her to leave Middle Earth because her family would continue to be burdened by worry if she remained, wouldn't they? It's not "abandonment" when the family is included in the decisionmaking and why would the family even object?
Meanwhile rings of power has no mention of Galadriel having a daughter or a husband xD
no she mention her husband in first season but thats about it
@@kotarojujo2737because it’s the events before.
I think someone who has gone through such suffering such as the severe breaking of body and spirit isnt selfish for not being around to support other people. Whoever would place that demand on her either has gender problems or they themselves go beyond the definition of selfish. It is heartening to know that the full spirit of us can never be harmed or broken, but that higher reality is cut off, veiled, from us unless we are fully aligned with who we are beyond this temporary physical experience.
The ones that judge her for leaving are heartless. So stupid to not understand. Pray such baby minds don’t experience such a thing as being tortured.
Elrond left to Valinor and reunited with his wife, Arwen lived out rest of her life with her beloved husband, Arwen's brothers if i had to guess stayed because of Arwen and her children i don't see any other reason as for other elves, after piece came to middle earth mirkwood elves never left so elves still live in middle earth. I think Elrond and Celembrian in the end found hapiness after so long because they knew their children found their place in the world and were happy.
She is on your mind
Appreciate the detailed breakdown! Just a quick off-topic question: I have a SafePal wallet with USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (air carpet target dish off jeans toilet sweet piano spoil fruit essay). How can I transfer them to Binance?
If Tolkien didn’t write it then,just make up one or two or even three you like best. As long as you’re satisfied with it you will be happy no need for anyone to say or do. ❤❤❤❤
Celebrian was severely wounded when she was kidnapped by the orcs and saved by his twin sons, although Elrond had healed her fully, her tormented spirit yearned for the sea and left. They finally reunited when Elrond left the shores of Middle Earth at the end of the Third Age.
Elladan Elrohir AND Arwen: all 3 children never made it across the sea afaik.
That’s the thing, Arwen obviously never went West as she chose a life of mortality. But with the twins, either they stayed and chose mortality same as their sister. Stayed and eventually faded, or as you say sailed West after some time.
You can assume anyone not in the story was killed by orcs.
Even Elves can suffer from PTSD.
I understand why elrond was so against Aragon/Arwens liason as he saw himself in it; Arwins mom had become half human etc an the same was now happening t Arwin I her live f Aragon
Elrond kissed her mom 😳 In rangz of powah
Rings of Power is kind of a mess in regard to timeline. In Tolkien's writings Celebrian is supposed to already have been born and to be centuries old by the time of Rings of Power's events. Galadriel is also over 1000+ years older than Elrond so it would be an elven version of a cougar woman getting it on with a younger boy.
Can you do a video on tolkien on his letter from the nazis
Yeahh
Elrond kissed Galadriel in Rings of Power. So he's involved with Galadriel's and her daughter? Gross. 🤢
Rings of Power is kind of a mess in regard to timeline. In Tolkien's writings Celebrian is supposed to already have been born and to be centuries old by the time of Rings of Power's events. Galadriel herself is also over 1000+ years older than Elrond so it would be an elven version of a cougar woman getting it on with a younger boy.
Anyone who would ask that question really needs to put a bit of effort into reading.
Okay, okay, STOP with the "very last ship" crap. Círdan will leave on the last ship, but it hasn't left yet. The Havens weren't abandoned when Bilbo left with Frodo, as Círdan was there nearly a lifetime later when Sam boarded, last of the Ringbearers. He would be there 'til the very end.
The movies were wrong.
OMG!!!! ring of power is such bullshit 🤣🤣🤣
So crappy
According to Lobelia Sackville-Baggins, Elrond’s wife dumped him for the Balrog, something about him being “on fire”.
True story, I got it over some drinks at the Bird and Baby Inn with Ted Sandyman.
The numerous assaults over the years by the orcs resulted her giving birth to several orc elf offspring. These powerful offspring grew to lead the armies of the dark. It was shame that drove her away.
Where do you read that?
"My source is that I made it the f*ck up"
@@CBOANDALUCIA This is a common interpretation. During WWI period, writers could not use the word rape and it wouldn't be printed, so they used words like torment and torture. Offspring from such "torment" were called poison from a poisonous arrow. When rescued, her PTSD was so pronounced and the poison she bore so profound (offspring) that Elrond sent her across the sea. Another reason is he wouldn't touch her after she had had been "touched' by the Orcs. Put it all together, and it's a clear picture of what really happened.
@@Jayzilla-jr4fr Could be, but I think it's most like he can't use the rape word and be clear about it bc the hard morality of his times, more than the war itself, bc when he wrote the history of Beren and Luthien, he was more clear about that (Morgoth wanted Luthien in that way), than in the edited books by him.
@@Jayzilla-jr4fr The "tormenting" part is plausible, but what points to the rest of the theory? The conclusion seems far fetched from what I've read.
I hope Celebrian appears in the power of the rings series
What... you don't think ROP's already ruined enough characters?
I doubt it will happen. Celeborn is notably absent from the narrative in S1, assumed dead by Galadriel.
Sounds like a real prima donna.
Star Wars 1-6 is better then lord of the rings
Is DayTripperrr a bot or troll-sock account
Comment section decides
Hoping KK is giving you some ass for your valiant effort.
Who said it was a competition
in the words of The Dude...well, you know..... that's just your opinion, man (DayTripperrr)
@@TerranArt🤣🫵🏻🫵🏻🫵🏻🫵🏻🫵🏻🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣I found the bot
The twins were born in the year 130 of the third age, soon after their parents marriage which took place in the year 109.
Twenty years is really "soon after"!
For elves it's very soon.