Great show Tim (& crew). 222 in steel is one for the collectors, not the enthusiasts. My VC of choice would be the same as yours but in rose gold. All the best, Ed
Another great episode Tim. Hearing you recite all of a watches specs, off the cuff, is unreal. Watch Rainman… 😂 Following your lead from a previous video, I just acquired my first IWC and wow. I see now what you were saying about the quality… Thank you for all the great information you provide, every single day. You are an incredible resource and well appreciated! I’ll try to send a wristshot with my bike that has some real MotoGP & WSBK parts on it. ✌🏼
A terrific and exceptionally well done educational video/program. I have the VC Overseas, Ultra Thin perpetual calendar in rose gold with the blue dial, love the watch even though it was expensive. A favorite of mine, thank you for loving this watch in the VC line. Best to you, Tim, an amazing educational experience.
Tim, Great show. Watched live and then replayed it again, so much good information. Your commentary in your podcast about 1) not making a steel 222 in service of "protecting the buyers" of the 2000V and yellow gold 222 2) not making any more variants of the 222 and 3) limiting production of the 222 was baffling to me. What if the buyers of the of the 2000V and yellow gold 222 also wanted a steel 222? Now they are satisfied. What if the buyers of the steel or gold 222 would like to also have a 222 in titanium? What if somebody wants a steel 222 but isn't a huge VC collector? Why limit their chances to get the watch...just make them wait in line while VC's more frequent clients get their pieces...why limit production? To me, It's VC's role to make amazing watches their patrons seek and to then sell them those pieces. I'm not saying VC should flood the market with excess timepieces to kill their secondary market value but slowly producing timepieces their customers want so they can get their preferred configuration seems like the ideal. Exclusivity is so off putting as a customer and scarcity makes it hard for me to collect the watches I have in duplicate (one for the wrist and one as a backup).
I think the best things it has going for it are the appearance and the size. You can get near enough to both with a 90s Overseas auto in steel. Best, Tim
Two years before the 222, was the 2215 and was replaced. The 2215 was known as Royal Chronometer from 1975-1977 to compete with AP Royal Oak and PP Nautilus.
It's a great watch, but you need to make your peace with the JLC 906, one of the ugliest and cheapest calibers ever to issue from Le Sentier. Seriously, think Lemania 5100 with extra plastic parts added. But it's a great example of how an evil looking movement can keep great time, and the 2215 is a solid caseback watch. JLC's version of the 2215 was the 24000 series of which I particularly like the 24001. Best, Tim
@@mondrayuk The 7900 is the best dual time Overseas yet. I was ambivalent about the design until I played with the AM/PM jump, and now I love it. Best, Tim
Great show Tim and crew, I think it is a great move by VC, having a double S.steel sports luxury watches to compete on that heavy watch bracket. I would rather get a 222 than the Overseas due to the size and look.
Yesterday, my visit to the Vacheron Miami Design District Boutique with an appointment turned out to be the most unpleasant experience I've had in a watch AD or Boutique. Even the staff at Patek are welcoming, the employees at the Rolex Boutique in the District rank as the most hospitable in the United States. If you haven't purchased a Vacheron, don't bother inquiring about the 222 model, as the attitude is similar to that of the Patek CEO.
That's the reason I have watches from Rolex, Sinn, Omega, and other brands that I didn't buy from authorized dealers; there's no need to pay more for a subpar experience.
I completely agree with you Tim. The 222 should've used the JLC movement. Even some half a century later, that movement is still relevant in many ways not to mention the very unique rotor.
Here's a true story - my dad bought a blue dial Overseas chronograph from an AD here in Hong Kong, which we have been using for years (this was back in 2017). He found there was a slightly sharp edge from the bezel and we took it into the VC boutique to inquire. The lady at the boutique had such a horrendous attitude: she had the audacity to even say that because we bought it from an AD, it would not surprise her to hear that the AD refinished the watch themselves improperly and thus causing the sharp edge. She was the boutique manager and I my jaw dropped. That really put me off the brand.
Wow, that's horrific. Like, enough to poison my view of the brand for a long time. I wish I wouldn't keep hearing stories like this. It seems like a big part of the reason more collectors are choosing smaller brands is the personal involvement and customer service commitment of the creator and the people who actually run the brand. It's hard to imagine a Moser owner getting such attitude from the brand if something needed attention. Or Garrick, or Sartory-Billard, etc. Best, Tim
Tim - 1000% agree with you regarding the Bond movies and the paradigm! But with the big production houses original approach is something too alien these past decade(s).
I always wanted to see Bond awake to a hanging bell Memovox. He would also wear a VC UltraThin (cal 1003) while gambling and would be a fan of manual wind JLC movements. Telling Judi Dench’s 1960s M story could be the way to move forward. Make her ride an Alvis TE21 with the body built by Muliner Park Ward.
I didn’t put my name down. They were surprised. 37mm is the size of the dial, not the case, according to the salesperson. It fits bigger than advertised, and no micro adjustments on the strap. Shurath
It's cool, but I was focused on the core stuff - mostly basic automatics - today. The 222 isn't anything like the Overseas tourbs, QPs, world times, dual times, and chronographs, so I kept most of those out of the discussion tonight. Best, Tim
Agreed. Plus there are so many OS models that rock and can be had for less than $32K. A real 1977-1984 222 would be a different matter for me, but that's not a genuine alternative to any Overseas price-wise except the 2000V. And the 2000V likely is the only Overseas whose collectibility rivals the vintage 222. Assuming, that is, that VC doesn't revive the 2000V at some point. Best, Tim
where I am from (Bangkok) getting a royal oak is far easier than getting a nautilus or even an aquanaut. Patek authorized dealers here are the worst in terms of bundling, do not reward loyalty and have mediocre to poor service, at least in terms of making you feel like a valued customer. In contrast, while AP would make you jump hoops to get a jumbo, the hoops are not any more versus just a standard aquanaut/nautilus, and at least the service and support is at a far higher level. My SA at the AP boutique has always made me feel like a valued customer even though I haven't purchased much, whereas the Patek ADs couldn't care less unless you were an ultra HNW client
Historically, steel was the main material for the 222. From 1977 to 1984, that's how VC made the majority of the original run. Perhaps you're thinking of the initial revival watch from 2022...? Best, Tim
Love your content love your tone/snarkiness towards brands who use customers. Kudos!
“Where this whole sports watch nightmare started” i spit my drink.
It came from the heart. I'm starting to wonder where we would be if Gerald Genta decided to just stick to jewelry.
Best,
Tim
Watch industry on its head without the sports watch in ‘72
“A high end quartz movement” got me thinking… imagine a citizen or grand seiko movement in a royal oak
Highly informative and entertaining stream. Thank you, Tim.
Awesome episode! Thanks!
Great show Tim (& crew). 222 in steel is one for the collectors, not the enthusiasts. My VC of choice would be the same as yours but in rose gold. All the best, Ed
Great Stream Tim and crew. Thanks
Thank you! We appreciate your long term support of the show.
Best,
Tim
T M on 🔥🔥🔥 ! Great and informative vid as usual!
A Bond movie written by Tim Mosso is something I didn't know I needed, but absolutely do
I'm so down for this if anyone's out there and listening!
Best,
Tim
Another great episode Tim.
Hearing you recite all of a watches specs, off the cuff, is unreal.
Watch Rainman… 😂
Following your lead from a previous video, I just acquired my first IWC and wow.
I see now what you were saying about the quality…
Thank you for all the great information you provide, every single day. You are an incredible resource and well appreciated!
I’ll try to send a wristshot with my bike that has some real MotoGP & WSBK parts on it.
✌🏼
Thank you for these kind comments. Enjoy your new IWC, and I can't wait to see the shots of your bike.
Best,
Tim
A terrific and exceptionally well done educational video/program. I have the VC Overseas, Ultra Thin perpetual calendar in rose gold with the blue dial, love the watch even though it was expensive. A favorite of mine, thank you for loving this watch in the VC line. Best to you, Tim, an amazing educational experience.
Thank you, Thomas. That's an incredible watch, and I'd love to own one myself in white gold.
Best,
Tim
Great show 👏
Tim, Great show. Watched live and then replayed it again, so much good information. Your commentary in your podcast about 1) not making a steel 222 in service of "protecting the buyers" of the 2000V and yellow gold 222 2) not making any more variants of the 222 and 3) limiting production of the 222 was baffling to me. What if the buyers of the of the 2000V and yellow gold 222 also wanted a steel 222? Now they are satisfied. What if the buyers of the steel or gold 222 would like to also have a 222 in titanium? What if somebody wants a steel 222 but isn't a huge VC collector? Why limit their chances to get the watch...just make them wait in line while VC's more frequent clients get their pieces...why limit production? To me, It's VC's role to make amazing watches their patrons seek and to then sell them those pieces. I'm not saying VC should flood the market with excess timepieces to kill their secondary market value but slowly producing timepieces their customers want so they can get their preferred configuration seems like the ideal. Exclusivity is so off putting as a customer and scarcity makes it hard for me to collect the watches I have in duplicate (one for the wrist and one as a backup).
These questions can apply to all the high end brands such as AP and Patek.
The 222: Not chronometer certified, only 40 hr power reserve. It's a beautiful piece but this is more jewelry than watch.
I think the best things it has going for it are the appearance and the size. You can get near enough to both with a 90s Overseas auto in steel.
Best,
Tim
@@the1916company I can agree with that
Omega Metas Constellation 36MM New for 2.9K. The best integrated bracelet for price. Connie is king in Asia.
Who needs a cosc if you're wearing a Vacheron🤷🏻♂️
Nivada F77 is more appealing than the 222 for me.
Awesome episode
Two years before the 222, was the 2215 and was replaced. The 2215 was known as Royal Chronometer from 1975-1977 to compete with AP Royal Oak and PP Nautilus.
It's a great watch, but you need to make your peace with the JLC 906, one of the ugliest and cheapest calibers ever to issue from Le Sentier. Seriously, think Lemania 5100 with extra plastic parts added. But it's a great example of how an evil looking movement can keep great time, and the 2215 is a solid caseback watch. JLC's version of the 2215 was the 24000 series of which I particularly like the 24001.
Best,
Tim
@the1916company I have a 7900 Dual Time Overseas with that amazing blue dial and superior at lower price than the new 222.
@@mondrayuk The 7900 is the best dual time Overseas yet. I was ambivalent about the design until I played with the AM/PM jump, and now I love it.
Best,
Tim
The bottle cap bezel is simply gorgeous.
Great show Tim and crew, I think it is a great move by VC, having a double S.steel sports luxury watches to compete on that heavy watch bracket. I would rather get a 222 than the Overseas due to the size and look.
Thank you, Abdul. How do you feel about the 1996-2003 gen-1 Overseas as an option?
Best,
Tim
@the1916company That would be my number 1 choice, especially the brown dial ones.
Yesterday, my visit to the Vacheron Miami Design District Boutique with an appointment turned out to be the most unpleasant experience I've had in a watch AD or Boutique.
Even the staff at Patek are welcoming, the employees at the Rolex Boutique in the District rank as the most hospitable in the United States.
If you haven't purchased a Vacheron, don't bother inquiring about the 222 model, as the attitude is similar to that of the Patek CEO.
I'm sorry to read that, but I'm also not surprised. Collectors - even casual shoppers - deserve better.
Best,
Tim
That's the reason I have watches from Rolex, Sinn, Omega, and other brands that I didn't buy from authorized dealers; there's no need to pay more for a subpar experience.
I completely agree with you Tim. The 222 should've used the JLC movement. Even some half a century later, that movement is still relevant in many ways not to mention the very unique rotor.
The brown dial gen3 OS is the best looking one. Love it when first saw it..... hope able to own one some day. GREAT REVIEW TIM.
Here's a true story - my dad bought a blue dial Overseas chronograph from an AD here in Hong Kong, which we have been using for years (this was back in 2017).
He found there was a slightly sharp edge from the bezel and we took it into the VC boutique to inquire. The lady at the boutique had such a horrendous attitude: she had the audacity to even say that because we bought it from an AD, it would not surprise her to hear that the AD refinished the watch themselves improperly and thus causing the sharp edge. She was the boutique manager and I my jaw dropped.
That really put me off the brand.
Wow, that's horrific. Like, enough to poison my view of the brand for a long time. I wish I wouldn't keep hearing stories like this. It seems like a big part of the reason more collectors are choosing smaller brands is the personal involvement and customer service commitment of the creator and the people who actually run the brand. It's hard to imagine a Moser owner getting such attitude from the brand if something needed attention. Or Garrick, or Sartory-Billard, etc.
Best,
Tim
Tim - 1000% agree with you regarding the Bond movies and the paradigm! But with the big production houses original approach is something too alien these past decade(s).
aquanaut on a bracelet is a legendary eyesore
While i can't justify the current prices of these, the 222 is still in my 'Dream 3 Watch Collection' with the Datograph and the Ocean Commitment III.
Curious what the secondary market value will be for this beautiful new piece.
I always wanted to see Bond awake to a hanging bell Memovox. He would also wear a VC UltraThin (cal 1003) while gambling and would be a fan of manual wind JLC movements.
Telling Judi Dench’s 1960s M story could be the way to move forward. Make her ride an Alvis TE21 with the body built by Muliner Park Ward.
I didn’t put my name down. They were surprised. 37mm is the size of the dial, not the case, according to the salesperson. It fits bigger than advertised, and no micro adjustments on the strap. Shurath
Tim
You did not mention the greatest Vacheron created thus far…
The overseas tourbillon blue dial variant in titanium!
It's cool, but I was focused on the core stuff - mostly basic automatics - today. The 222 isn't anything like the Overseas tourbs, QPs, world times, dual times, and chronographs, so I kept most of those out of the discussion tonight.
Best,
Tim
Awesome show Tim. How 'bout that 40mm Ingenieur blue?
I like it a lot. Does it look blue to you or teal?
Best,
Tim
I missed as well but am watching a replay
Thank you for supporting the show any way - and any time - that you can.
Best,
Tim
I would take the Overseas over the 222 any day of the week even if the OS was more expensive than the 222
Agreed. Plus there are so many OS models that rock and can be had for less than $32K. A real 1977-1984 222 would be a different matter for me, but that's not a genuine alternative to any Overseas price-wise except the 2000V. And the 2000V likely is the only Overseas whose collectibility rivals the vintage 222. Assuming, that is, that VC doesn't revive the 2000V at some point.
Best,
Tim
I’m sure Swatch has iron clad exclusivity rights to all the wrists in a James Bond film
Watch at 3:03 is awesome!
Visiting AP is a creepy experience
At 5k its okay at 32k its a disgrace.
where I am from (Bangkok) getting a royal oak is far easier than getting a nautilus or even an aquanaut. Patek authorized dealers here are the worst in terms of bundling, do not reward loyalty and have mediocre to poor service, at least in terms of making you feel like a valued customer. In contrast, while AP would make you jump hoops to get a jumbo, the hoops are not any more versus just a standard aquanaut/nautilus, and at least the service and support is at a far higher level. My SA at the AP boutique has always made me feel like a valued customer even though I haven't purchased much, whereas the Patek ADs couldn't care less unless you were an ultra HNW client
I think I'll have to be content with the PRX lol
Your not getting a 222 unless you are Tim or Brad Pitt
Do you know something I don't?😉
Best,
Tim
@the1916company 😂 that's unlikely
The 222 is too small for my wrist and I don't fancy it anyway. So my preference would be a VC Overseas mk.3 steel/blue dial.
Dang. I missed it :/
But thank you for watching the show!
Best,
Tim
@@the1916company You welcome Tim. Keep up the good work. 👍
Best steel VC sports watch is the Overseas generation two.
The movement specifications is low performance by today's standards.
Yiddish and Italian slurs. My kind of goy. Also, the steel 222 is great despite the average movement.
Overseas > 222
When I think of the 222, stainless steel doesn’t come to mind. The steel model is overpriced and too late to the party
Historically, steel was the main material for the 222. From 1977 to 1984, that's how VC made the majority of the original run. Perhaps you're thinking of the initial revival watch from 2022...?
Best,
Tim
The SS is a miss. I could live with the low power reserve and depth, the dial color I cannot.
Remind me again… what exactly is holy trinity about 40 hours power reserve and 50 meters water resistance in a sport watch?