Thank you for sharing this. My family was a part if this group when I was a preteen/young teenager. We were one if the VERY few small black families (it was only my sister and I and of course 2 parents). We began it because my parents were interested in their homeschool curriculum. We weren't in it real long because my parents (and us) started feeling like it was cult vibes. But we felt comfortable being in it because it was very similar to the church they raised us in (thats another story). We ended up leaving but my parents kept a lot of their books, curriculum and literature and some of their beliefs. As you were going through the documentary I realized how much of their teachings affected me through many decisions in my life. I remember going to their conferences, meetings, going to their campus right outside of Chicago in Oak Brook. Thank you for sharing, I haven't seen the documentary yet.
Hi @ejwilliams2002! Wow, crazy that you were once a part of it all. We're glad you got out. It is so true about how much this type of extreme teaching can affect as much later on in life.
It makes me mad that they expect the women to scream. We hear about flight or fight, where that reaction might happen, but the other response is to freeze. I know my fear response is to freeze and I know in those situations I have not been able to scream because I was frozen in fear. Those poor women and girls, I feel for them so much.
Yes- I grew up secular but repressed, and this created a ton of confusion for me (what was consent? If I froze, was I consenting; did that mean I was ok w/ things? Etc) So w/ my daughter, we have had age-appropriate convos since very early toddlerhood, about consent, rules, expectations, etc, always straddling the line between making sure I’m not scaring her, while making sure I’m also not leaving her informationally unarmed. There are lots of great early childhood education and child development classes parents can take through community colleges, even online, and tons of great books for all ages, about bodies, consent, expectations and boundaries etc. I know it can seem intimidating but no message is also a message, and in an informational vacuum, kids can really flounder. Because my daughter has been informed, I have been able to indirectly even help other kids, who confided in my daughter, that an afterschool care teacher had touched them inappropriately - My kiddo knew she needed to tell me, bc I have always sought to take the guesswork out of it, for her, so she was very clear in her mind, about what had happened, and what the correct action steps were. I’ve also always been super carefully inclusive in my wording, bc we never know who our kids will grow up to be, and we don’t want them to ever have to wonder if we accept them. The numbers of suicides in LGBTQ+ youth are horrifying. I would hope any loving parent would rather have an alive LGBTQ+ kid, than one who has received messages, even indirectly, that their family won’t accept them, and who felt like suicide was least unbearable option available to them. Also, it’s advantageous for kids to know about the world around them, so that they don’t feel confused, scared, or intolerant when they meet people different from themselves, and they will probably have to learn and work with a diversity of humans, during their lives, even if they themselves do turn out to be part of the mainstream. I hope this is useful for some parent reading this. I know how hard it can be, when you don’t know what to say, and you don’t wanna say the wrong thing, but please seek out resources! They are abundant and widely varying so you can find something that keeps your kid as safe as possible, while still aligning with your family’s beliefs. Every child deserves to know that their body is healthy and safe, what they can expect from grownups around them, what’s not ok, and action steps for if something does happen to them, or around them. You never know- you could even end up saving a life 💜⚡️
Not to mention appease is also a very normal response when facing imminent danger (ie handing a mugger money instead of trying to fight/flee) these women were groomed to obey men. Just living in the patriarchy, women have been conditioned to silently absorb bad male behaviour and not call it out because it would result in anger and their potential victimization/demonization. Part of consent needs to be acknowledging physical and other power dynamics at play, and ensuring the other person knows these power dynamics won't be used against them should they say no- so many men don't want to acknowledge the physical power imbalance between most men and women because they benefit from the "wait for a no, instead of ask for a yes, apologize later" apporach, espeically in youth. 1/4 girls are getting sexually assaulted by the time they turn 22.
It just occurred to me that in these types of belief systems, men have all of the power and no accountability and women have no power and all of the accountability. It's really and truly sick. I hope we have many more documentaries about these destructive belief systems.
No, you're right about the lack of accountability by the leaders however, women do have power in some of these types of belief systems. Debra Geileskey, Alice "Lakwena" Auma and Judy Zebra Knight "Judy Z" are people who founded organizations similar to the ones described on this channel.
@@zackfunnyman33 Sorry, I'm not a Christian, so I'm not familiar with these women. My question is, do they just parrot what the men say, or are they allowed to go outside the box? I've read that some Evangelical women have been heavily criticized and even canceled when they question things like covering up sexual abuse or the right of men to rule the home. I know that in many these cultures that debase women, it is other women who are the enforcers of these inhumane beliefs. Look at how the Duggar parents have treated Jill, who is still a Christian but disagrees on a few issues. For example, I read a book years ago talked about female genital mutilation in Africa. One woman's father was against it, so the mother had it done to her daughters when the father was traveling. The mother did this, because she was afraid her daughters wouldn't find good husbands if it wasn't done. The same thing with the custom of foot binding in China. It was usually the mom who forced her daughters to painfully mutilate and literally break most of the bones in their feet.
My husband started getting like this towards me a few years back and he's still pushing parts of the Bible that says women are to submit follow ans obey the husband and he's to lead the household
The funny (not ha ha) thing is that NONE of this doctrine is found in the Bible. They sadly have to cherry pick the Bible to twist it to this sick way of thinking. 😞
Thank you for speaking about this. I was raised Christian and when my father passed when I was 11 I was told it was due to me not praying enough. Then years later when my health started to fade I was told it was my fault. I was being punished for my behavior, even though I did nothing wrong. Working on healing every day.
Take care of yourself Casey and try not to allow their negative, illogical fears and guilt to impact upon who you know you are.Their hurtful comments say more about who they are than who you are. We are all damaged in one way or another. All the best with your healing xo Shelly
I’m glad people touched on the points about Anna Duggar being a victim too. I honestly feel so bad for her and her kids and the fact she feels she needs to remain loyal because she doesn’t know any better is absolutely heartbreaking.
I feel bad for her too but I also feel like, at what point do you go from empathy to calling out dangerous behavior, you know? Josh is in prison now but she still brings her kids to the prison to see him. And he won't be there forever, so what is she going to do to keep her kids safe? Its a tough line to navigate and I understand both sides of the argument there.
You are only a victim for so long. She was aware early on about his behavior. She decided it wasn't a big enough deal because in her world Josh was IBLP royalty. He cheated and had a P addiction. she had every grounds for divorce and nothing. After it came out he watched small little girls, a few family members stated they would help her leave. She ignored that, too. She has daughters. No telling what we don't know. But ignored. At this point, she's no better than the abuser. This comes from someone who left a cult. 🤷🏻♀️
@@tammyellison735 that does not mean that he will not be around their kids. She’s already taking them to visit him in the prison, you think she gives a damn to follow the rules?
I think that in extremely religious families, divorce is just not an option. If she leaves, her own family could disown her. I think theres more than just her really wanting to remain loyal.
0:22 Thank you for encouraging people to see the humanity of people. This is FAR more constructive than the reactivity, divisiveness, and hatred many default to. Your willingness to promote compassion for a variety of people in different situations is commendable, as always.
Seeing people like you have so much compassion for people from other cults really does go a long way in restoring my faith in humanity. I wonder what an interview with Jen from Fundie Fridays would be like. Diametrically opposed personalities and approaches but both caring a very much lot about the victims.
Interesting connections in this: in the Episcopal church we have a creed in the prayer book (there are several versions with different words) that is meant to recite together during a church service. It mentions that we believe in the “priesthood of all believers”. Guess that includes women and children and pretty much any category of person…
Totally agree with your comment, Melissa, about the Joshua generation. This documentary was about two things, the IBLP in general, and the Duggars' involvement in it. They did just dump in a lot of extra stuff in the last episode without really explaining it in detail. Loving your channel as always xx
My opinion based on the people I know who have been in IBLP is that the whole "they were trying to take over the world" is more conspiracy than fact and there really wasn't more that they could say because there is nothing more. I think the military camps were more about using a different way to break those kids and control them because they weren't able to break them a different way. And basically all they were doing was marching around wearing uniforms - no guns or weapons... It was for entertainment value for the doc to touch on it imo.
thx so much for adding your perspective to this! i hadnt heard of this on Amazon Prime so i went and watched after watching your Ep 1 review. WOW!! I watched the Duggars as a teen (just a year older than Jill). thought the whole thing was odd but fascinating to watch and occasionally watched the specials. having 19 kids is already a show of arrogance and exploitative (bc how can u properly care for that many people?!), it is not surprise the Parents exploited them for monetary gain. i hope all the children still in the home are well. scary
IBLP is interesting because it had a way of influencing people who never even went to a conference or really even heard about Bill Gothard. I remember when I went to church we had one family in our congregation who was really involved with IBLP and because they were well known in the church and got involved in things like Bible study I heard a lot about principles like the Umbrella of Authority from them, and it was never mentioned by our pastor or church leadership.
The teachings truly infiltrated (most?) Christian denominations, def where I grew up. The damning problem was and always will be tacking a verse onto a moral principle or making a teaching out of one or two verses over taking the Bible as a whole, connected, relational revelation. So much deceitful leading and corruption from anyone cherry picking.
@@sweetpotato7008 the purity culture is what eventually chased me away. I was married in high school and divorced due to adultery on his part all before I was 18 years old. I wasn’t raised going to church so I rebelled into it. But I got so much bullying from people my age about my relationship history that I eventually just said screw it and I quit. It made me hopeless when people told me that God wouldn’t accept me ever getting married again, like a huge life path was just taken away from me because I had made dumb choices as a literal child.
This was awesome, and I also really enjoyed your interview on Cults to Consciousness. You are providing a great service to people who are involved in these cults and trying to find a path out. Please keep up the great work you do.
The tampon thing seems to be a universal repressed-Christian thing. My very Catholic MIL had to have counsel and prayer with her priest before decided to “allow” her daughter tampons.
What an awful cult. All in the name of a god. Promissing people easy black and white answers and solutions in a complex grey world, while in the process damaging a lot of vulnerable people. Lots of love and strength for the survivors of these cults❤
Look up Jill's sister Jinger Volo. She has recently wrote a book about untangling from this teachings. It is very good. There are also interviews about her book.
My mother was raised in a Catholic boarding school. She was forced to confess at a young age (starting at age 6). She would make up sins to confess because she couldn't think of any. Usually she confessed to gluttony or something like that because she did enjoy sweets.
I went to Catholic school too and the priest would randomly pull us from class and not let us go until he was satisfied with our confession, I was like 10 or 11 and my biggest sin was hiding the remote so my sister couldn't change the channel when we were watching something I liked but she didn't but that wasn't big enough for the priest so I would make stuff up like taking money from my mother's purse wich never happened but would achieve the desire outcome of being allowed to go play outside with my friends 😂
I like the commentary and thoughts that you shared seeing people who grew up in a different cult seeing one that was closer to my world for a time was nice to see and watch.
Oddly enough, I grew up in some similar circumstances on thoughts of “discipline” and SA, but not the religious aspects. When you leave that life, you still need to deconstruct, and so far it looks like it’s going to be a lifelong lesson. You guys show it all so well, what occurs, and how or still be supportive to those that need it. Thank you!
I was raised Southern Baptist. I remember hearing Bill Gothard's name. I did not know that he was the leader of the group that the Duggers followed. I have been learning more about him since I watched the documentary, and I can not believe how far reaching his teachings are.
Two odd things - they didn’t mention Gil Bates, patriarch of Bringing up Bates show, is in IBLP leadership whereas Duggars aren’t, and they didn’t mention Jim Holt’s wife (who was in this documentary) and son got a 10 year order of protection from him, before this aired.
In the show "Escaping Polygamy", They helped a man and his 2 wives & children escape. Then they found out he was a part of Militia of AUB. And a Security person told him that they needed to know that info prior to the move. They could have been fired upon and Seucity did have them stay in the house once he found out and t4ucks/cars came around to see what they were doing during the move. Makes me wonder the ILP did the same at the Alert camp.
I have been watching the Duggars for years. Jill has always appeared to be such a lovely person. It appeared to me that she always wanted to do the correct thing. She was the elder daughter who had the best public speaking skills and was often out-front. She was also the most nurturing to her siblings. I perceived her as a favourite in the home amongst her siblings, parents and family. There is an interesting documentary called "Right America Feeling Wronged" made following the 2008 presidential election. It talks about the Joshua Generation. I'm not sure they call it that but it was the same idea. You know how there is often a discussion of not enough teaching of civics? I think these children are being taught civics. Another documentary "Jesus Camp" is another documentary that looks at civic engagement of evangelical children. Thanks for your great insight and perspective!
I grew up LDS. I was homeschooled with a group of very conservative Christians, the kind who insisted I was not Christian. I was not necessarily aware of the Joshua Generation as a whole, but my family actively participated in Generation Joshua's chat rooms and forums for teens, and my younger siblings did a few Student Action Teams with them. I was both surprised and not to see it mentioned in this documentary. It definitely deserves it's own examination.
Re: Anna Duggar, These People have been exposed to TV, Court cases, He Josh was using Porn escorts ETC..., where does she now take responsibility for the Children she has and keeps having..., Those Children need to be protected, Their minds Body, and spirts...
I've watched a bunch of your videos and have been enjoying them. I'm glad you don't seem too scarred by your strict upbringing. One thing I've been wondering about (and maybe one of the videos I haven't seen covers this) -- are there times when you fall back into or are tempted to fall back into thinking the man is the final authority? Is that a part of your marriage now, since it's part of the "regular" Mormon church, too?
7:49 yes, I heard Davey Jackson, a comedian from Texas who grew up in the cult, speak about being sent to a correction camp with all kind of kids his age, poor guys 😮 he also got locked up for days in isolation: one tiny room with bed, desk, chair, bible, and tiny bathroom. Davey also tells about other young men spending weeks on end alone for punishment, they suffered tremendous pain in isolation 😢😢😢
Jen Cuhna tells her story in much greater detail in an interview on the Cults to Consciousness channel. So proud that she made it out but sad religion was used as a weapon.
Unfortunately, it is not just a cult thing thing to make victims feel like it's their fault or they didn't do enough to stop it. A lot of people's first reaction is to ask what you did, are you sure you didn't want it, did you say no or scream, etc. I think that, for most people, it's a gut reaction because no one wants to believe it could happen to anyone (including them or their loved ones). But that doesn't make it less damaging for us survivors.
Imagine trying to get a job without any high school education, without any job history and without any people skills. Now imagine you have to navigate a divorce, court and being a single mom. It is almost impossible for these women to leave. Especially when they don’t have any secular family. We can’t blame women for being in that situation. Their parents raised them to be in that situation. It’s not their fault.
The Joshua generation thing spread through a lot of evangelicalism. I grew up evangelical, kind of fundie light and while Gothard may have been anti-Christian rock, I’ll tell you that every Christian ska band Christian rock band Christian Pop band would tell us at every concert that we, the millennials, are the generation that will bring a revolution. We will rise up and bring this country in this world back to God. I can’t remember the first time I heard Joshua generation, but I was never IBLP and I knew it and clung to this idea that my life meant more bc I would be a world changer. And books like DC Talks “Jesus Freaks” books(which every millennial and plenty of Gen Z evangelicals read) taught us that we were oppressed and had to fight back against the world. A lot of ideas and IBLP span all of evangelicalism and that’s why it was so easy for it to thrive and it’s something I can really go on about and it’s all pretty disgusting.
Yep same. Take over the world for Christ, yada yada. Have you seen the doc Jesus Camp? You have literal 8 year olds tearfully begging God to install "righteous judges" in the government. 0_o
I’d be interested to get both your takes on the movie/book Women Talking and the true story it is based on. I know you already did an episode on the Mennonites, but your take on the specific incidents that inspired Women Talking would be enlightening.
I really don't understand people like Jim Bob not doing the right thing, simple things, and reconciling with his children. He claims to be a Christian... and yet refuses to act like a Christian? I really don't get it. It's not like it's hard?
I agree they didn't have enough time to really get into any survivors stories. Very surface level. Feel like they barely scratched surface on IBLP as well
I read the statements that four Duggar daughters gave to the police when Josh was finally turned in for molesting them... all of the girls had no words to describe their own body parts... they only referred to the whole region as "private parts" and to the backside as "bottom" with no differentiation between holes or parts or whatever. It was heartbreaking. They all said that their favourite subject was the same and their least favourite subject was math, which ALSO broke my heart because obviously Michelle Duggar was a crappy math homeschool teacher. A good teacher will foster your love of subjects, but they were not allowed to hear anyone else's opinion of anything other than their authorities/parents.
I had a friend in my neighborhood who was very conservative and christian but sweet enough to let me be me. She once told me proudly that her boys didnt have any words for their 'privates' and it was all called 'down there' or something. I didnt know what to say.
@@caraziegel7652 I have a childhood memory of my dad running by from the shower to his room and I saw two things swinging. I was too embarrassed to ask but just assumed men had "two things" down there and it was years before I had names to put to it. So ridiculous! They are just body parts!
I would love to hear a video on the definition of "priesthood" as I'm still fuzzy on the concept. Another one is something you mentioned you once got at your wedding and you didn't want to discuss what it was... I think you described it as either words or wisdom or something they told you at your wedding that you couldn't repeat. Ordinances maybe? I would love to hear you define the odd terms of LDS/FLDS!
Just to touch on the priesthood conversation. I remember in young woman one time there was a girl that came to church for the first time. The missionaries had brought her family to church. In the lesson the priesthood was brought up. The girl asked if women would ever be able to get the priesthood. The leader teaching the lesson (I think was caught off guard) said maybe one day. But VERY quickly another jumped in and said no, women will NEVER get to hold to priesthood.
Hi, my name Is David. I just found your channel. I'm from Copenhagen, Denmark.. find all this FLDS stuff interesting.. I have seen this documentary with Tom Green and all his wifes . wondering if you know where in this utah desert, like to find it on google earth best regards David Ian Dehli
I heard a rumor that Bill actually did try to marry one of the young girls, but since it would’ve not looked the best, his inner circle was able to talk him out of it 26:02
I think the documentary was also trying to connect the Joshua generation idea to current conservative Christian influencers and the rebranding of fundamentalist theology.
I’m just trying to make y’all aware that “child porn” isn’t really a term that should be perpetuated. It’s not CP. They had no choice. It’s child sexual abuse material (CSAM). I just cringe when I hear that term. I know that you weren’t using it maliciously. But thought you might want to be aware of this.
Because it is so hard to convince a cult member that he is in a cult, what might help is to tell him about the other cults. Show him a specific group. He will agree how horrible it is, will be aware of signs, and eventually will see it in his own group
While the FLDS is not trying to influence politics. The LDS does....it's a bit of a theocracy in UT and they have been involved in presidential politics (Mitt)....much to discuss for sure!
It was Gloriavale (I’m not sure about the spelling) not the Hutterites that have the list you can choose from for the men and the women have a “choice “ whether or not they want to accept, but not really.
@@GrowingUpinPolygamy I hope I didn’t come off as rude. I just happened to remember. I have brain problems that make it hard to write. I appreciate what you do so much.
I hate how they take majorly out of context those verses about a woman crying out. This was actually about protecting women and their best way at the time to help distinguish what ess consensual opposed to what was assault. They didn't the justice system and investigators like we do today. They ignore the verses right near by that day if done out where no one can here (in private basically) then the man automatically is deserving of punishment and it will be assumed the woman was not guilty. It actually was a law to believe and protect women if there was no way for her to get help or have someone to hear her to be a witness. It's sickening how abusers use this to keep on abusing.
That’s what my daughter, her husband and his best friend are abusing my grandsonS in Evansville Indiana. I hope that they do something but so far it’s been over two years and they act like I’m a mean witch. I haven’t seen my grandkids and two years and I miss.
In prosperity gospel doctrine they would say that the enemy(aka Satan) attacked someone if they were rapped. But then you’re left wondering why God allowed Satan to do this. Like God was powerless to stop it which is ridiculous. Prosperity Gospel either uses Satan as the escape goat or causes people to self condemn because it must have been their lack of faith or unrepentant sin that allowed it. No matter what, in religion there’s this wrestling with why bad things happen. Is there purpose and a redemptive outcome or is it your fault. The IBLP used every aspects to suffering and evil men had a field day with those women. I’m honestly horrified with how many evil men use biblical teaching to groom and control their victims.
I know you guys are trying to be nice by saying they thought this was best for their kids and they just dont know, and I know a lot of families are really like that in these cults but i think Jim Bob Duggars only motive was to make sure he got rich in this life and that he himself was happy and ends up going to heaven and i dont think he loved those children at all. If he really believed they needed to live only for god and not work and what not then by his own beliefs as the father he should have compensated them or provided housing. FLDS provided housing didnt they??
Sam, There has been alot of speculation on the oldest duggar daughter never marrying. She is over 30. I have heard she possibly hasnt due to being the mothers helper. To run house and care for kids. In another doc. Someone said in iblp they hve had people take purity pledges for like 10 years or something. So were the women who didnt marry in flds. Oldest daughters not marrying there also?
I want to hear from the men who have escaped. What was done and said in the boy/men meetings? What is said and done to groom the boys for polygamy? Where they molested? Why aren't the men speaking out?
Why weren't the man told that this isn't normal to be like this. To deal with a woman, I think the men are sexually frustrated by the lack of information what do you guys think
Perhaps you could cover Scientology in one of your sessions, as it is another interesting 'religion' or 'cult'. I associate with no religious entity or established religion. My father was born into Catholicism and my mother was a Protestant. They were forbidden to marry unless they agreed to sign their children over to the Catholic Church. My mother said "No", and she allowed us to explore other religions if we wanted to. "No pressure" We could do Religious Instruction at Primary School, but I chose not to. Mum and dad married anyway in a registry office because they loved and liked each other. They taught me kindness, respect for myself and others and encouraged me to care for others, treat others with consideration and respect, value difference in the world and to be true to my authentic self. Whatever that was. I always felt safe and loved . My father committed suicide when I was 5 years old - it made us closer as a family. Dad suffered from undiagnosed depression but mum says he also did it due to stress and to prevent my only brother, his only son from being conscripted into the war in Vietnam (in Australia in the 60's if your birthdate came up on television you had to fight) Dad took his life the day before my brother was being shipped out. As he was the only son my brother got compassionate leave. My father saved his life as apparently dad told mum that even if he came back alive his soul would be destroyed by what he had seen and been made to do. We are all the same. Some have fewer struggles than others but everyone has a story, we should focus more on what we have in common rather than what divides us. When I pass people in the street I try to smile even if I'm sad on that day because we all have a story to tell. Thank-you for allowing me to tell mine and for giving others a voice. ☺
Please do not use the term "child p*rn". It's more accurately referred to as Child Sexual Abuse Material/CSAM. The pornography industry uses consenting adult actors which is 100% different from CSAM.
The mennonites that I knew, the guy would ask the girl's father if he was allowed to pursue the girl. One married girl told me that she liked that because then if she didn't like a guy, he wouldn't know if it was her turning him down or her father so it was less awkward. Another couple told me that the girl didn't even know he was interested in her and he was getting permission from all these people to court her (they were on a mission trip so he needed permission from the people there, and then her father also) and meanwhile she had no idea he even liked her. Just struck me as so strange! They are a great couple though, I like them.
This "documentary" gave a very one sided, extreme view. I know families who were in this group. They are nothing like the FLDS. Courtship is not typically done as you described. It's very different from family to family. I don't know anyone who practiced courtship as you described. You know about the FLDS. Please be careful when judging others by a documentary such as this one that isn't showing the whole picture.
I love you guys and your content, but have to disagree with you on much of these last episodes. I know many, many people in these circles personally, and some do take this teaching out of context, but most are great people raising good kids. Please watch the show, and read the Pearl's book ( its a fast read) before forming all your opinions. Go to the source at least, before assuming people are abusive. My 2 cents 😊
You know, I don't think Sam and Melissa are making wild accusations about well-intentioned parents. They are talking about teachings that can be shown to have destructive consequences, that well-intentioned people can believe and apply out of misplaced loyalty and respect, but without any intent to do harm.
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Anybody who says tampons are used for pleasure has obviously never used one!! 😂
Right?! Like, what in the world? There's nothing happy about tampons.
1000%
For sure!
For real! On a scale of things that could be “considered”pleasurable, tampons are a -1000 in my book 😂
Yeah that is so weird and sickening
Thank you for sharing this. My family was a part if this group when I was a preteen/young teenager. We were one if the VERY few small black families (it was only my sister and I and of course 2 parents). We began it because my parents were interested in their homeschool curriculum. We weren't in it real long because my parents (and us) started feeling like it was cult vibes. But we felt comfortable being in it because it was very similar to the church they raised us in (thats another story). We ended up leaving but my parents kept a lot of their books, curriculum and literature and some of their beliefs. As you were going through the documentary I realized how much of their teachings affected me through many decisions in my life. I remember going to their conferences, meetings, going to their campus right outside of Chicago in Oak Brook. Thank you for sharing, I haven't seen the documentary yet.
Hi @ejwilliams2002! Wow, crazy that you were once a part of it all. We're glad you got out. It is so true about how much this type of extreme teaching can affect as much later on in life.
It makes me mad that they expect the women to scream. We hear about flight or fight, where that reaction might happen, but the other response is to freeze. I know my fear response is to freeze and I know in those situations I have not been able to scream because I was frozen in fear. Those poor women and girls, I feel for them so much.
We agreed. So sad! Thank you for your comments.
Yes- I grew up secular but repressed, and this created a ton of confusion for me (what was consent? If I froze, was I consenting; did that mean I was ok w/ things? Etc)
So w/ my daughter, we have had age-appropriate convos since very early toddlerhood, about consent, rules, expectations, etc, always straddling the line between making sure I’m not scaring her, while making sure I’m also not leaving her informationally unarmed.
There are lots of great early childhood education and child development classes parents can take through community colleges, even online, and tons of great books for all ages, about bodies, consent, expectations and boundaries etc.
I know it can seem intimidating but no message is also a message, and in an informational vacuum, kids can really flounder.
Because my daughter has been informed, I have been able to indirectly even help other kids, who confided in my daughter, that an afterschool care teacher had touched them inappropriately - My kiddo knew she needed to tell me, bc I have always sought to take the guesswork out of it, for her, so she was very clear in her mind, about what had happened, and what the correct action steps were.
I’ve also always been super carefully inclusive in my wording, bc we never know who our kids will grow up to be, and we don’t want them to ever have to wonder if we accept them. The numbers of suicides in LGBTQ+ youth are horrifying. I would hope any loving parent would rather have an alive LGBTQ+ kid, than one who has received messages, even indirectly, that their family won’t accept them, and who felt like suicide was least unbearable option available to them.
Also, it’s advantageous for kids to know about the world around them, so that they don’t feel confused, scared, or intolerant when they meet people different from themselves, and they will probably have to learn and work with a diversity of humans, during their lives, even if they themselves do turn out to be part of the mainstream.
I hope this is useful for some parent reading this. I know how hard it can be, when you don’t know what to say, and you don’t wanna say the wrong thing, but please seek out resources! They are abundant and widely varying so you can find something that keeps your kid as safe as possible, while still aligning with your family’s beliefs. Every child deserves to know that their body is healthy and safe, what they can expect from grownups around them, what’s not ok, and action steps for if something does happen to them, or around them. You never know- you could even end up saving a life 💜⚡️
They’re also beat into submission their whole life which breeds victims who can’t speak up
Not to mention appease is also a very normal response when facing imminent danger (ie handing a mugger money instead of trying to fight/flee) these women were groomed to obey men. Just living in the patriarchy, women have been conditioned to silently absorb bad male behaviour and not call it out because it would result in anger and their potential victimization/demonization.
Part of consent needs to be acknowledging physical and other power dynamics at play, and ensuring the other person knows these power dynamics won't be used against them should they say no- so many men don't want to acknowledge the physical power imbalance between most men and women because they benefit from the "wait for a no, instead of ask for a yes, apologize later" apporach, espeically in youth. 1/4 girls are getting sexually assaulted by the time they turn 22.
It just occurred to me that in these types of belief systems, men have all of the power and no accountability and women have no power and all of the accountability. It's really and truly sick. I hope we have many more documentaries about these destructive belief systems.
Well said. I hadn't thought about that in such clear terms, before.
No, you're right about the lack of accountability by the leaders however, women do have power in some of these types of belief systems. Debra Geileskey, Alice "Lakwena" Auma and Judy Zebra Knight "Judy Z" are people who founded organizations similar to the ones described on this channel.
@@zackfunnyman33 Sorry, I'm not a Christian, so I'm not familiar with these women. My question is, do they just parrot what the men say, or are they allowed to go outside the box? I've read that some Evangelical women have been heavily criticized and even canceled when they question things like covering up sexual abuse or the right of men to rule the home. I know that in many these cultures that debase women, it is other women who are the enforcers of these inhumane beliefs. Look at how the Duggar parents have treated Jill, who is still a Christian but disagrees on a few issues.
For example, I read a book years ago talked about female genital mutilation in Africa. One woman's father was against it, so the mother had it done to her daughters when the father was traveling. The mother did this, because she was afraid her daughters wouldn't find good husbands if it wasn't done. The same thing with the custom of foot binding in China. It was usually the mom who forced her daughters to painfully mutilate and literally break most of the bones in their feet.
My husband started getting like this towards me a few years back and he's still pushing parts of the Bible that says women are to submit follow ans obey the husband and he's to lead the household
The funny (not ha ha) thing is that NONE of this doctrine is found in the Bible. They sadly have to cherry pick the Bible to twist it to this sick way of thinking. 😞
Thank you for speaking about this. I was raised Christian and when my father passed when I was 11 I was told it was due to me not praying enough. Then years later when my health started to fade I was told it was my fault. I was being punished for my behavior, even though I did nothing wrong. Working on healing every day.
Take care of yourself Casey and try not to allow their negative, illogical fears and guilt to impact upon who you know you are.Their hurtful comments say more about who they are than who you are.
We are all damaged in one way or another.
All the best with your healing xo Shelly
I agree. The series ended abruptly with many unanswered questions. I hope there's more to come soon.
I’m glad people touched on the points about Anna Duggar being a victim too. I honestly feel so bad for her and her kids and the fact she feels she needs to remain loyal because she doesn’t know any better is absolutely heartbreaking.
I feel bad for her too but I also feel like, at what point do you go from empathy to calling out dangerous behavior, you know? Josh is in prison now but she still brings her kids to the prison to see him. And he won't be there forever, so what is she going to do to keep her kids safe? Its a tough line to navigate and I understand both sides of the argument there.
You are only a victim for so long. She was aware early on about his behavior. She decided it wasn't a big enough deal because in her world Josh was IBLP royalty. He cheated and had a P addiction. she had every grounds for divorce and nothing. After it came out he watched small little girls, a few family members stated they would help her leave. She ignored that, too. She has daughters. No telling what we don't know. But ignored. At this point, she's no better than the abuser. This comes from someone who left a cult. 🤷🏻♀️
@@Suprachiasmatic when he get out he will not be able to live with his under age kids, thankfully
@@tammyellison735 that does not mean that he will not be around their kids. She’s already taking them to visit him in the prison, you think she gives a damn to follow the rules?
I think that in extremely religious families, divorce is just not an option. If she leaves, her own family could disown her. I think theres more than just her really wanting to remain loyal.
0:22 Thank you for encouraging people to see the humanity of people. This is FAR more constructive than the reactivity, divisiveness, and hatred many default to. Your willingness to promote compassion for a variety of people in different situations is commendable, as always.
Thank you! ❤️
Seeing people like you have so much compassion for people from other cults really does go a long way in restoring my faith in humanity.
I wonder what an interview with Jen from Fundie Fridays would be like. Diametrically opposed personalities and approaches but both caring a very much lot about the victims.
Interesting connections in this: in the Episcopal church we have a creed in the prayer book (there are several versions with different words) that is meant to recite together during a church service. It mentions that we believe in the “priesthood of all believers”. Guess that includes women and children and pretty much any category of person…
Totally agree with your comment, Melissa, about the Joshua generation. This documentary was about two things, the IBLP in general, and the Duggars' involvement in it. They did just dump in a lot of extra stuff in the last episode without really explaining it in detail. Loving your channel as always xx
Hi Susan! Thank you thank you so much for your comments and compliment.
My opinion based on the people I know who have been in IBLP is that the whole "they were trying to take over the world" is more conspiracy than fact and there really wasn't more that they could say because there is nothing more. I think the military camps were more about using a different way to break those kids and control them because they weren't able to break them a different way. And basically all they were doing was marching around wearing uniforms - no guns or weapons... It was for entertainment value for the doc to touch on it imo.
thx so much for adding your perspective to this! i hadnt heard of this on Amazon Prime so i went and watched after watching your Ep 1 review. WOW!! I watched the Duggars as a teen (just a year older than Jill). thought the whole thing was odd but fascinating to watch and occasionally watched the specials. having 19 kids is already a show of arrogance and exploitative (bc how can u properly care for that many people?!), it is not surprise the Parents exploited them for monetary gain. i hope all the children still in the home are well. scary
IBLP is interesting because it had a way of influencing people who never even went to a conference or really even heard about Bill Gothard. I remember when I went to church we had one family in our congregation who was really involved with IBLP and because they were well known in the church and got involved in things like Bible study I heard a lot about principles like the Umbrella of Authority from them, and it was never mentioned by our pastor or church leadership.
The teachings truly infiltrated (most?) Christian denominations, def where I grew up. The damning problem was and always will be tacking a verse onto a moral principle or making a teaching out of one or two verses over taking the Bible as a whole, connected, relational revelation. So much deceitful leading and corruption from anyone cherry picking.
@@sweetpotato7008 the purity culture is what eventually chased me away. I was married in high school and divorced due to adultery on his part all before I was 18 years old. I wasn’t raised going to church so I rebelled into it. But I got so much bullying from people my age about my relationship history that I eventually just said screw it and I quit. It made me hopeless when people told me that God wouldn’t accept me ever getting married again, like a huge life path was just taken away from me because I had made dumb choices as a literal child.
This was awesome, and I also really enjoyed your interview on Cults to Consciousness. You are providing a great service to people who are involved in these cults and trying to find a path out. Please keep up the great work you do.
Thank you so much!
The tampon thing seems to be a universal repressed-Christian thing. My very Catholic MIL had to have counsel and prayer with her priest before decided to “allow” her daughter tampons.
What is a presort? Google only shows things pertaining to mail
@@candygram4435 my phone autocorrected priest. Tampons were apparently a Big Deal.
@@amylou22snowhitethank you. I was a bit confused
Same. It wasn't even something that we talked about. I don't use them even now out of habit but I buy them every now and then just out of spite lol
i think your right, my grandmother was methodist and always said girls should wait to use tampons until after they were married.
You two are so great! Thank you for sharing all your experiences.
What an awful cult. All in the name of a god. Promissing people easy black and white answers and solutions in a complex grey world, while in the process damaging a lot of vulnerable people. Lots of love and strength for the survivors of these cults❤
Look up Jill's sister Jinger Volo. She has recently wrote a book about untangling from this teachings. It is very good. There are also interviews about her book.
You two are so Blessed.
Please don't ever stop these post.
Thank you, Susan ☺️
Happy Friday Melissa & Sam! Thanks for all of the hard work you put into your content each week.
Hi Katy! Happy Friday 😊
My mother was raised in a Catholic boarding school. She was forced to confess at a young age (starting at age 6). She would make up sins to confess because she couldn't think of any. Usually she confessed to gluttony or something like that because she did enjoy sweets.
I went to Catholic school too and the priest would randomly pull us from class and not let us go until he was satisfied with our confession, I was like 10 or 11 and my biggest sin was hiding the remote so my sister couldn't change the channel when we were watching something I liked but she didn't but that wasn't big enough for the priest so I would make stuff up like taking money from my mother's purse wich never happened but would achieve the desire outcome of being allowed to go play outside with my friends 😂
@@TabbyeLynnedamn, I was never forced to confess!
I like the commentary and thoughts that you shared seeing people who grew up in a different cult seeing one that was closer to my world for a time was nice to see and watch.
For all this fundamentalist groups, the appearance of goodness is more important than goodness it self….
Oddly enough, I grew up in some similar circumstances on thoughts of “discipline” and SA, but not the religious aspects. When you leave that life, you still need to deconstruct, and so far it looks like it’s going to be a lifelong lesson. You guys show it all so well, what occurs, and how or still be supportive to those that need it. Thank you!
I was raised Southern Baptist. I remember hearing Bill Gothard's name. I did not know that he was the leader of the group that the Duggers followed. I have been learning more about him since I watched the documentary, and I can not believe how far reaching his teachings are.
Yayyyy I love your guys takes on this stuff! Deconstructing myself and I always appreciate the compassion you two show
Hi Megan! Thank you so much for your kind words and support ❤️
You should read Jinger Duggar's book or get her on your show!
Two odd things - they didn’t mention Gil Bates, patriarch of Bringing up Bates show, is in IBLP leadership whereas Duggars aren’t, and they didn’t mention Jim Holt’s wife (who was in this documentary) and son got a 10 year order of protection from him, before this aired.
Hmmm those are some great points. We want to look more into it now.
In the show "Escaping Polygamy", They helped a man and his 2 wives & children escape. Then they found out he was a part of Militia of AUB. And a Security person told him that they needed to know that info prior to the move. They could have been fired upon and Seucity did have them stay in the house once he found out and t4ucks/cars came around to see what they were doing during the move. Makes me wonder the ILP did the same at the Alert camp.
I have been watching the Duggars for years. Jill has always appeared to be such a lovely person. It appeared to me that she always wanted to do the correct thing. She was the elder daughter who had the best public speaking skills and was often out-front. She was also the most nurturing to her siblings. I perceived her as a favourite in the home amongst her siblings, parents and family. There is an interesting documentary called "Right America Feeling Wronged" made following the 2008 presidential election. It talks about the Joshua Generation. I'm not sure they call it that but it was the same idea. You know how there is often a discussion of not enough teaching of civics? I think these children are being taught civics. Another documentary "Jesus Camp" is another documentary that looks at civic engagement of evangelical children. Thanks for your great insight and perspective!
Hi Laura! Thank you for this information. And thank you so much for being a member of our channel. We are so thankful for your support.
I grew up LDS. I was homeschooled with a group of very conservative Christians, the kind who insisted I was not Christian. I was not necessarily aware of the Joshua Generation as a whole, but my family actively participated in Generation Joshua's chat rooms and forums for teens, and my younger siblings did a few Student Action Teams with them. I was both surprised and not to see it mentioned in this documentary. It definitely deserves it's own examination.
Re: Anna Duggar, These People have been exposed to TV, Court cases, He Josh was using Porn escorts ETC..., where does she now take responsibility for the Children she has and keeps having..., Those Children need to be protected, Their minds Body, and spirts...
I've watched a bunch of your videos and have been enjoying them. I'm glad you don't seem too scarred by your strict upbringing. One thing I've been wondering about (and maybe one of the videos I haven't seen covers this) -- are there times when you fall back into or are tempted to fall back into thinking the man is the final authority? Is that a part of your marriage now, since it's part of the "regular" Mormon church, too?
My hearts breaks for Anna and her children.
7:49 yes, I heard Davey Jackson, a comedian from Texas who grew up in the cult, speak about being sent to a correction camp with all kind of kids his age, poor guys 😮 he also got locked up for days in isolation: one tiny room with bed, desk, chair, bible, and tiny bathroom.
Davey also tells about other young men spending weeks on end alone for punishment, they suffered tremendous pain in isolation 😢😢😢
*) Davey is r-rated
Jen Cuhna tells her story in much greater detail in an interview on the Cults to Consciousness channel. So proud that she made it out but sad religion was used as a weapon.
Unfortunately, it is not just a cult thing thing to make victims feel like it's their fault or they didn't do enough to stop it. A lot of people's first reaction is to ask what you did, are you sure you didn't want it, did you say no or scream, etc. I think that, for most people, it's a gut reaction because no one wants to believe it could happen to anyone (including them or their loved ones). But that doesn't make it less damaging for us survivors.
Imagine trying to get a job without any high school education, without any job history and without any people skills. Now imagine you have to navigate a divorce, court and being a single mom. It is almost impossible for these women to leave. Especially when they don’t have any secular family. We can’t blame women for being in that situation. Their parents raised them to be in that situation. It’s not their fault.
The Joshua generation thing spread through a lot of evangelicalism. I grew up evangelical, kind of fundie light and while Gothard may have been anti-Christian rock, I’ll tell you that every Christian ska band Christian rock band Christian Pop band would tell us at every concert that we, the millennials, are the generation that will bring a revolution. We will rise up and bring this country in this world back to God. I can’t remember the first time I heard Joshua generation, but I was never IBLP and I knew it and clung to this idea that my life meant more bc I would
be a world changer. And books like DC Talks “Jesus Freaks” books(which every millennial and plenty of Gen Z evangelicals read) taught us that we were oppressed and had to fight back against the world. A lot of ideas and IBLP span all of evangelicalism and that’s why it was so easy for it to thrive and it’s something I can really go on about and it’s all pretty disgusting.
Hi @ditzyblonde53,
Thank you so much for all of this great info. Super interesting!
Yep same. Take over the world for Christ, yada yada. Have you seen the doc Jesus Camp? You have literal 8 year olds tearfully begging God to install "righteous judges" in the government. 0_o
Yo we need an interview with you!
I’d be interested to get both your takes on the movie/book Women Talking and the true story it is based on. I know you already did an episode on the Mennonites, but your take on the specific incidents that inspired Women Talking would be enlightening.
I really don't understand people like Jim Bob not doing the right thing, simple things, and reconciling with his children. He claims to be a Christian... and yet refuses to act like a Christian? I really don't get it. It's not like it's hard?
I agree they didn't have enough time to really get into any survivors stories. Very surface level. Feel like they barely scratched surface on IBLP as well
When a relationship with God is removed then man becomes the center of focus. It's a very bad, sad and horrible situation.
I read the statements that four Duggar daughters gave to the police when Josh was finally turned in for molesting them... all of the girls had no words to describe their own body parts... they only referred to the whole region as "private parts" and to the backside as "bottom" with no differentiation between holes or parts or whatever. It was heartbreaking. They all said that their favourite subject was the same and their least favourite subject was math, which ALSO broke my heart because obviously Michelle Duggar was a crappy math homeschool teacher. A good teacher will foster your love of subjects, but they were not allowed to hear anyone else's opinion of anything other than their authorities/parents.
I had a friend in my neighborhood who was very conservative and christian but sweet enough to let me be me. She once told me proudly that her boys didnt have any words for their 'privates' and it was all called 'down there' or something. I didnt know what to say.
@@caraziegel7652 I have a childhood memory of my dad running by from the shower to his room and I saw two things swinging. I was too embarrassed to ask but just assumed men had "two things" down there and it was years before I had names to put to it. So ridiculous! They are just body parts!
Sam has mad building skills. It's sad that Anna D. doesn't have more skills to help her six kids.
She has 7 kids, she was heavily pregnant with her last one when she was going to court with Josh about his child porn charges!
I would love to hear a video on the definition of "priesthood" as I'm still fuzzy on the concept. Another one is something you mentioned you once got at your wedding and you didn't want to discuss what it was... I think you described it as either words or wisdom or something they told you at your wedding that you couldn't repeat. Ordinances maybe? I would love to hear you define the odd terms of LDS/FLDS!
These are some great topics for future videos. Thanks
I totally believe that JimBob and Michelle are taking over for Bill Gottard
Just to touch on the priesthood conversation. I remember in young woman one time there was a girl that came to church for the first time. The missionaries had brought her family to church. In the lesson the priesthood was brought up. The girl asked if women would ever be able to get the priesthood. The leader teaching the lesson (I think was caught off guard) said maybe one day. But VERY quickly another jumped in and said no, women will NEVER get to hold to priesthood.
Hi, my name Is David. I just found your channel. I'm from Copenhagen, Denmark.. find all this FLDS stuff interesting.. I have seen this documentary with Tom Green and all his wifes .
wondering if you know where in this utah desert, like to find it on google earth
best regards David Ian Dehli
Look up Nephi UT. That’s the closest town. It’s in Juab County
I heard a rumor that Bill actually did try to marry one of the young girls, but since it would’ve not looked the best, his inner circle was able to talk him out of it 26:02
I think the documentary was also trying to connect the Joshua generation idea to current conservative Christian influencers and the rebranding of fundamentalist theology.
I’m just trying to make y’all aware that “child porn” isn’t really a term that should be perpetuated. It’s not CP. They had no choice. It’s child sexual abuse material (CSAM). I just cringe when I hear that term. I know that you weren’t using it maliciously. But thought you might want to be aware of this.
It's called that in the courts. People are getting all upset about words and not the actual harm. It's crazy.
Because it is so hard to convince a cult member that he is in a cult, what might help is to tell him about the other cults. Show him a specific group.
He will agree how horrible it is, will be aware of signs, and eventually will see it in his own group
While the FLDS is not trying to influence politics. The LDS does....it's a bit of a theocracy in UT and they have been involved in presidential politics (Mitt)....much to discuss for sure!
It was Gloriavale (I’m not sure about the spelling) not the Hutterites that have the list you can choose from for the men and the women have a “choice “ whether or not they want to accept, but not really.
Hey Kelley, thank you. We realized we were wrong after we published this video and you are correct 😊
@@GrowingUpinPolygamy I hope I didn’t come off as rude. I just happened to remember. I have brain problems that make it hard to write. I appreciate what you do so much.
Wrong on the Hutterite thing. A lot of times Hutterite parents don’t meet their sons or daughters in law until the day they get married.
Yes, it was Gloriavale we were thinking of.
I hate how they take majorly out of context those verses about a woman crying out. This was actually about protecting women and their best way at the time to help distinguish what ess consensual opposed to what was assault. They didn't the justice system and investigators like we do today. They ignore the verses right near by that day if done out where no one can here (in private basically) then the man automatically is deserving of punishment and it will be assumed the woman was not guilty. It actually was a law to believe and protect women if there was no way for her to get help or have someone to hear her to be a witness. It's sickening how abusers use this to keep on abusing.
People like Bill Gothard frequently pull the “I’m like Paul” card. 🙄
That’s what my daughter, her husband and his best friend are abusing my grandsonS in Evansville Indiana. I hope that they do something but so far it’s been over two years and they act like I’m a mean witch. I haven’t seen my grandkids and two years and I miss.
The Duggars are good friends of mine,but their way of life,I never agreed with
In prosperity gospel doctrine they would say that the enemy(aka Satan) attacked someone if they were rapped. But then you’re left wondering why God allowed Satan to do this. Like God was powerless to stop it which is ridiculous. Prosperity Gospel either uses Satan as the escape goat or causes people to self condemn because it must have been their lack of faith or unrepentant sin that allowed it.
No matter what, in religion there’s this wrestling with why bad things happen. Is there purpose and a redemptive outcome or is it your fault.
The IBLP used every aspects to suffering and evil men had a field day with those women.
I’m honestly horrified with how many evil men use biblical teaching to groom and control their victims.
I know you guys are trying to be nice by saying they thought this was best for their kids and they just dont know, and I know a lot of families are really like that in these cults but i think Jim Bob Duggars only motive was to make sure he got rich in this life and that he himself was happy and ends up going to heaven and i dont think he loved those children at all. If he really believed they needed to live only for god and not work and what not then by his own beliefs as the father he should have compensated them or provided housing. FLDS provided housing didnt they??
Thank you for sharing your wiews, its really interesting
Sam, There has been alot of speculation on the oldest duggar daughter never marrying. She is over 30. I have heard she possibly hasnt due to being the mothers helper. To run house and care for kids. In another doc. Someone said in iblp they hve had people take purity pledges for like 10 years or something. So were the women who didnt marry in flds. Oldest daughters not marrying there also?
I can’t even listen to this. So awful. Must be so so triggering for you both. God love you both.
What happened to the gifts of the holy spirit which included self-control? For all of God's children including men and women!
12:22 it’s also just the complete lack of understanding of female bodies.
I want to hear from the men who have escaped. What was done and said in the boy/men meetings?
What is said and done to groom the boys for polygamy? Where they molested? Why aren't the men speaking out?
I've seen the political side happen even with a different Christian sect. 😢
Why weren't the man told that this isn't normal to be like this. To deal with a woman, I think the men are sexually frustrated by the lack of information what do you guys think
Lack of info doesn't make you frustrated. Lack of good, wild sex makes you frustrated.
Perhaps you could cover Scientology in one of your sessions, as it is another interesting 'religion' or 'cult'. I associate with no religious entity or established religion. My father was born into Catholicism and my mother was a Protestant. They were forbidden to marry unless they agreed to sign their children over to the Catholic Church. My mother said "No", and she allowed us to explore other religions if we wanted to. "No pressure" We could do Religious Instruction at Primary School, but I chose not to. Mum and dad married anyway in a registry office because they loved and liked each other. They taught me kindness, respect for myself and others and encouraged me to care for others, treat others with consideration and respect, value difference in the world and to be true to my authentic self. Whatever that was. I always felt safe and loved . My father committed suicide when I was 5 years old - it made us closer as a family. Dad suffered from undiagnosed depression but mum says he also did it due to stress and to prevent my only brother, his only son from being conscripted into the war in Vietnam (in Australia in the 60's if your birthdate came up on television you had to fight) Dad took his life the day before my brother was being shipped out. As he was the only son my brother got compassionate leave. My father saved his life as apparently dad told mum that even if he came back alive his soul would be destroyed by what he had seen and been made to do. We are all the same. Some have fewer struggles than others but everyone has a story, we should focus more on what we have in common rather than what divides us. When I pass people in the street I try to smile even if I'm sad on that day because we all have a story to tell. Thank-you for allowing me to tell mine and for giving others a voice. ☺
Please do not use the term "child p*rn". It's more accurately referred to as Child Sexual Abuse Material/CSAM. The pornography industry uses consenting adult actors which is 100% different from CSAM.
I feel like'ole Billy is gay.
Except from the footfett!$# and the preference for young girls...
The mennonites that I knew, the guy would ask the girl's father if he was allowed to pursue the girl. One married girl told me that she liked that because then if she didn't like a guy, he wouldn't know if it was her turning him down or her father so it was less awkward. Another couple told me that the girl didn't even know he was interested in her and he was getting permission from all these people to court her (they were on a mission trip so he needed permission from the people there, and then her father also) and meanwhile she had no idea he even liked her. Just struck me as so strange! They are a great couple though, I like them.
👍👍
sam has the right to have many wives ,please tell him i am available .
This "documentary" gave a very one sided, extreme view. I know families who were in this group. They are nothing like the FLDS. Courtship is not typically done as you described. It's very different from family to family. I don't know anyone who practiced courtship as you described. You know about the FLDS. Please be careful when judging others by a documentary such as this one that isn't showing the whole picture.
I love you guys and your content, but have to disagree with you on much of these last episodes. I know many, many people in these circles personally, and some do take this teaching out of context, but most are great people raising good kids. Please watch the show, and read the Pearl's book ( its a fast read) before forming all your opinions. Go to the source at least, before assuming people are abusive. My 2 cents 😊
You know, I don't think Sam and Melissa are making wild accusations about well-intentioned parents. They are talking about teachings that can be shown to have destructive consequences, that well-intentioned people can believe and apply out of misplaced loyalty and respect, but without any intent to do harm.