@@sefatsilverlake3816 it’s called the “Magnet Spikes” it was introduced in Monster Hunter Frontier and was specifically made to hunt Zenith monsters. It’s has a slicing mode (what you see in the video) and a blunt mode. It was made to do everything and is THE most OP weapon in all for MH.! Also EXTREMALY fun.! One of my favorite weapons to use ever.!
As a big fan of all the current Piscines, the main problem is that they took the Plesioth/Lavasioth evolutive tree and just focused on expanding that branch; with the only exception being Delex and Ancient Serpent (which has yet to appear in a game by the way). And the worst part is that Piscine aren't really bound by skeletons, on paper they are one of the classes with highest potential and variety; you can go wild with them, you can have a Piscine with Tigrex skeleton, or Odogaron, or Najarala, or Deviljho or straight up a brand new one etc... It's like if Bird Wyvern were exclusively formed by Velocidrome close family. Or if Fanged Beast were made up just by apes. They need the Gen5 Fanged Wyvern treatment. Hopefully MH6...
Agreed. And if mh6 has underwater they should make a legless piscine wyvern that can only be fought in water. Kinda like gobul but without the land combat. Tbh i feel like gobul and niblesnarf should have been piscine wyverns... But yeah Jyuratodus, Beotodus, old Lavasioth and MH3U Plesioth are in my opinion Good monsters. Infact Jyuratodus became my faiv due to people constantly bullying him lol. Tho i dont like Cephadrome. He was okay in MH4U but in other games hes allways been just... bleh or Horrible.
Y'know there is technically a piscine wyvern with Tigrex skeleton. Although it's still classified as a Flying Wyvern. It's from Monster Hunter Frontier and it's called Pariapuria.
@@saurianfan7102 I was about to suggest that. I headcanon'd that Pariapuria was originally classified as a Flying Wyvern after its similar physique to Tigrex and other Pseudo Wyverns but, over time, the Hunter's Guild would eventually reclassify it as a Piscine Wyvern, albeit a highly derived species, after further study reveals it to be more closely related to the likes of Plesioth.
As other say, part of their problem is that they generally revolve around the same body-type and design plan. Beotodus was immediately more striking than its peers in 5th Gen with the huge horn and shark fin, though it still fell under the same canopy. Expanding the clade to include more diverse options, reflecting the myriad of creatures such as sawfish, stingrays, eels, all sorts of glorious deep-sea horrors, would improve their profile. That kind of expansion really benefitted the fanged wyverns in 5th Gen, going from the Zinogre clan to a myriad of monsties ranging from samurai tigers to visceral ten-claw nightmares. Hopefully the piscine wyverns and other underrepresented clades (carapaceon, amphibian, snake wyvern, temnoceran) get such love in the next game. I think part of it is the fixation on elder dragons, who always have a handy helping of new members each gen. They can give you a big ol' kappa-platypus frog, sure but then immediately it's overshadowed by the Raijin/Fujin snakes, Dracula, Pacific Rim, and a crew of Qurio-infested remakes.
I agree. Piscines need a new design plan that’s set apart from the Flying Wyvern model, like how the pseudowyvern group (the Tigrex gang) are Flying Wyverns that uniquely walk on their wings. Beotodus best Picsine. And we already have a sawfish Piscine in the form of Anorupatisu from Frontier (although I think he’s actually a Flying Wyvern, I’m not sure). I still stand by the idea that Gobul and Nibelsnarf could have been the secondary body type for Piscines, but I guess a secondary Leviathan body type works too.
I don't think the core body type is as much of an issue, Brutes are in a similar boat of a very simple body type (just legs, head and tail) that they've found plenty of ways to make interesting.
They havent ruined them however they clearly have neglected them. I personaly do like Jyuratodus, beotodus and Old Lavasioth as well as MH3U Plesioth. However when saying the names of 4 monsters in a serries thats been running for over a decade with multiple games includes 80% of the monsters thats a bit ridiculous.
Those Gold and Silver "Lavasioths" are actually rivals and have an intense rivalry. They had the gimkick in that in the only way to kill them was to kill them at the same time. If you just focused on one of them and you got its health to 1 HP you couldn't kill it. It would flop on the ground continuously until other hit it which would heal it a bit it. They refused to die not until the other is dead as well
Also I never understood why Gobul is a leviathan and not a piscine wyvern. It feels like they just called it a leviathan because it was the new class introduced in gen 3.
Its attacks behave much like Royal Ludroth, what with the “running jumping flop” and “rolling on its side” attacks. Doesn’t use a hip check or 180 spin like Plesioth
The reason it is a leviathan is because leviathans have four legs and are quadrupedal while Piscine Wyverns have two legs and a couple of fins and are Bipedal
There are some interesting lore elements behind the main three of World. Namely how Jyuratodos is considered the oldest or origin of the piscene wyverns. And the other versions we've seen are descended from it. Kinda like the ceolocanth being the most ancient living form of fish.
If the Mudfish body-plan is supposedly the oldest land form, that opens a lot of evolutionary time for there to be more varied designs. I think they could use that as a reason to introduce some more walking evolutions. Maybe reclassify Gobul as Piscine and use that inflating leviathan body plan for more things. Or have some Testucabra shaped fish, similar to Zamtrios. I think Piscine's should "steal" body shapes from other classifications and then do weird marine/deep-sea things with them. Like a modern version of the Ancient Serpent that moves like a Snake Wyvern but is a Eel/Oarfish
In fact the worst thing about Plesioth : it's that it has an actual great design ! While Lagiacrus is a sea Crocodile, Plesioth is a river Shark. From an ecology point, he's cool. Thanks to its design which is incredible, i mean, it's imposible to mix 2 badass animals like a dragon and a shark, and not saying this is sick. So yea the only real issue and wasted potential with Plesioth is its fight. And yea, no surprise, it's excruciatingly overwhelming. Since the beginning, Plesioth always felt off because, he had the exact same moves as Gravios but with less weight. Which is very weird because he has hitboxes which transcend multiverses, but unlike Gravios, it doesn't look like it belongs to him. As a freaking agile Shark-Dragon, he should have quick and erratic movements and attack like but not really (there's only the knock-over animation) In this regard, Cephadrome and Lavasioth fights look far more "fishy". At least not until 3U, where i presume, most OG's were mindblown by this HUGE STEP UP for Plesioth. And this is pretty much the last true update plesioth had. And it was kinda great. Of course the fight was still painful, but at least it felt like i was fighting a fish with sicks moves underwater. This is very sad to say, but it was the only time, since the beginning of the franchise, when i could say : "WoW he's stylish" (underwater only ) rather than "WoW he stinks" (most of the time). So i must say, if Capcom succeeded at reworking and making FREAKING YIAN GARUGA and Rajang : FUN to fight in Iceborne. Then i have hope for 6th Gen Plesioth !!!! Same thing for Cephadrome they have overall the same issue For Lavasioth, he was still suposed to have his rework with his 5th gen version, which is almost worse than old-gen version, he goes to at least funny attacks to completely boring to fight. So for him even if we get a juryatodus-like rework in the next game i have not big hopes for him, same thing for juryatodus, he already had a supposed rework in Rise but he still boring to fight. Almudron is still the best mud monster, i prefer puking blood out of rage than dying of boringness. Beotodus is currently the best piscine wyvern which isn't something incredible as he's still pretty forgettable, he's good looking, and has nor a painful nor a difficult fight, he's just forgettable cuz the only thing that we remember of him is : digging in the frozen ground/snow, something that many monsters do. So to make him more unique, Capcom should give him more dolphin dive attack, that's literally the only attack that i remember of him Edit : Nevermind for Lavasioth/Juryatodus, i just remembered that we have : Rathalos and Kushala Daora who are both nightmares in World for not liking the ground while they're finally enjoyable to fight in Rise/Sunbreak. There's also Rajang, who was one of the hardest monster in Iceborne while being super nerfed in Rise and SB. So we shouldn't doubt Capcom's ability to nerf/buff and rework their monster. It's not because they failed in one game that it's done Juryatodus and Lavasioth will be looser for ever.
Imo if a monster takes too long and is difficult to fight, it poses a challenge. If it takes just a short time to kill it and is easy asf, thats boring
No. The problem is Plesioth is too fucking big. His fight was shit because where you fight em in ARE IN SMALL ASS ARENAS and it can dip in and out of water. Reminder, it's easier to fight Plesioth in the fucking water. Just because it actually fights you and doesn't have his fucking hip check. Plesioth's fights were long and boring because you had to pull em out the water which are a down time for people without a ranged weapon. Make Plesioth smaller or bring back underwater maps and let Plesioth be an actual ambush predator where in dips in and out the water to strike at you like the Diablos den in World. If Plesioth was smaller it would be able to actually... Fight. Instead of just waddle around and be a giant, GIANT ass hit box. Seriously, the things bigger then Diablos. Hell, go more in on the goofiness of Plesioth and have it flop around more as an actual attack, have it spread out it's fins after it's hip check to keep the odd angles it could hit you from but you can actually see what's hitting you since they fixed the hit boxes since World. For it's tail sweep have it randomly sit then strike out with it's head or shoot water at you if your in from of it's face or just swish it's tail about if your behind it or if your on either side of him, have it spread it's fins For Cephadrome the problem is it runs away. That's it. If it circled around you with its smaller versions then it can feel like being hunted by a pack of sharks and keeps you in the fight. Imagine a bunch of them circling you in the sand and one of their big pack moves is while circling you it makes the sand loose and cause you to start falling into the sand as a pitfall and then they come in and attack. Literally just transplant more of a Drome monster actually coordinating it's pack in unique ways and you got more interesting fights. Have the Cephadrome be the main attacker while it tells it's minions to hit you from the sides with sand blast to box you in. It shows how much stronger the Cephadrome is and it be a more interesting fight. If it gets weak have it dive down into the sand and work with it's pack to drag you under as a last ditch move with the sand pit. We already have other monsters that can make their own environmental problems to deal with so just go with that.
Also the fact that Plesioth CAN BE LARGER AND TALLER THAN MOST ELDER DRAGONS, like how the fuck does this thing fit in most rivers, it's legs are like one and a half times the players height.
Dude, that piscine design you and the artist created is absolutely phenomenal! I really hope they add more different monsters, like this , in the new iteration.
I find it odd how only this category of monster has some of the coolest looking roman type armor. Everyone else is going viking or samurai and fish crew is taking us back
This may be a controversial change, but I'd honestly just get rid of the Piscine Wyvern category altogether and rename it as Piscine Leviathan, and move some of the more fish-like Leviathans, like Gobul and Nibelsnarf, into it. The rest of the Leviathans would then be classified into their own, new category, maybe call it Fanged Leviathans. This is just to make the category names more consistent, and because it seems like the fish-like Leviathans seem more closely related to Piscine Wyverns than they are to other Leviathans.
I do like that idea. They should tbh do this sorta stuff with Fanged Beasts aswell. Have: Fanged Beasts be the Monkeys. Brute Beasts be Gammoth and bulldrome Flying Beasts should have Paolumu Bear Beasts should have well.. bears. Tho id call the 'Fanged Leviathans' Serpentine Leviathans instead Oh yeah and bird wyverns should be formed into 2 groups Bird wyverns (everything using the flying wyvern skeleton) And Raptor wyverns (everything using the raptor skeleton Velociprey, Great Jaggi, Kulu ya-ku, etc.)
The thing is that Leviathans *are* wyverns. The Japanese name for the Leviathan class is "Sea Wyvern", so separating them into what would effectively be "Piscine Sea Wyvern" and "Fanged Sea Wyvern" would just be complicating things for a distinction that already exists. Piscine Wyvern refers to fish-like monsters with the traditional wyvern body shape, while Leviathan or Sea Wyvern refers to aquatic monsters with the quadrupedal body shape.
@Meta289 MH has major classification bloat with alot of mid generation monsters for no reason. All non-arthropod/elder dragons/fanged beasts are wyverns. So Piscine can be increased by adding the fish monsters (zamtrios, pariapuria, gobul) all the stuff that are basically just. Fishes. Fanged wyvern can absorb reptile leviathans and snake wyverns. Paolumu and Barioth should have been Fanged beasts. Bird wyverns kinda don't need to be their own thing but they have their own specific material for the class (bird and fey wyvern gems) And all the crabs bugs and spiders can all be condensed into a single arthropod class if they don't wanna expand it. Ahtal and Seltas both use the Nerscylla skeleton. And pretty sure the nerscylla skeleton is a modified crab skeleton.
mmmh nah. I can't imagine this going well. you would delete a part of monster hunters history with Pisces being in the very first monster hunter and appearing again and again in the following titles, getting more and more members to the family as the series goes. See, the longer we wait, the bigger the Pisces family grows, getting more and more variety as the series goes on, I wouldn't be surprised if they'd introduced a new Piscene in MH6 alongside bringing back a new and reworked Plesioth maybe.
Plesioth is likely mostly based on the Freshwater Butterflyfish, it glides in the air, it hangs out at the top of the water and shares jaw morphology, it has the same silhouette from the top when swinging, and neither of them have any venom.
I personally think it would be cool if they added some large piscine wyverns that use the delex body type. PIscine wyverns that are more fish with a wyvern/dragon head. They wouldn't just have to be in the desert as long as there is something that they can swim through like water, lava, sand, mud, or snow they could live pretty much anywhere.
Why are piscine wyverns so bland ?? let me answer you: lack of underwater combat As you said, the sea has the biggest number of diverse animals, so imagine what we could see if Underwater became as normal as terrestrial areas as for fighting monsters I know it would take a lot of time to implement, I don't care, take 8 years to make a game, I'll wait
If I had to choose between not having Piscene Wyverns or making them 'better' with the return of underwater combat, I'd happily throw them into the deep fryer.
Fun fact jyuratodus was originally supposed to be an underwater fight but because underwater combat was scrapped for world they ended up having to change his fight to be more land based now as to why they scrapped underwater combat I have no idea but it was originally planned for world
I like Jyuratodus and its perhaps my favourtite Pisicine Wyvern in that I like its ecological niche, but design is admittedly dissapointing. It's evident to see its was likely a last minute creation in a sense and was done in a bind knowing some of the backstory of World's development. Jyuratodus is actually the replacement for Lagiacrus after they couldn't get Leviathan rigs to work properly in World's engine. The Wildspire was supposed to be more marshy and swamp-like and was to be the domain of Lagiacrus. So maybe due to a lack of time and redesigning the area they dug up the Lavasioth design and gave it a new gimmick. If Jyuratodus could be redesigned I would like its body was somewhat flatter and bit broader with a head similar to a lung fish or catfish with the same set of teeth it has now with the catfish whiskers as well. These could help it guide its way in its murky habitats on account that it would have bad eyesight
I do like Piscine wyverns. To be exact i like Jyuratodus and Beotodus. There are hundreds of different unique fishspecies like the barrel eye, whale shark, orca, goblin shark, lion fish, etc. I do not understand why they wont use them? Most are given to elder dragons or leviathans.
I agree with you overall and definitely think that the Coral Highlands should definitely have had at least a couple of Piscene Wyverns to really nail that concept of it being a marine biome out of water. I once thought of an idea for a Piscene based on a Ribbon Eel that would use a very long, serpentine neck and tail to try to ambush prey from the safety of rock crevices. It would still be bipedal like your typical wyverns but holds its neck up in such a way that it looks like a real dinosaur ( such as Ceolophysis ). The fight would be somewhere between a Khezu and a Raptor Wyvern as a lower tier threat in the Highlands.
Volicthyos sounds like a really neat fight, at least conceptually and as a hammer main. Definitely drives home just how many marine inspirations the MonHun team could pull from. As an aside, I actually really enjoyed fighting Plesioth in one game... MH3U, my first MonHun. It was thrilling to chase the bastard onto his home turf after he'd decided things weren't going well for him, and I didn't really get all the hate for it and kinda thought it was just a meme? The moment chasing it into the water stopped being a thing I could do, I understood the contempt surrounding the monster immediately. I feel like being able to fight piscine wyverns in their element again could really add to the experience, but... that of course means water combat as a whole would have to come back. I personally really enjoyed it and was sad to see it go, but I understand that's a pretty unpopular opinion... XD;
Volichthyos looks fantastic! Kudos to Alex to that design, they knocked it out of the park! I don't think there's anything better to add to volichthyos aside from lore! So let's try this! Volichthyos was a monster that originally inhabited the east coast of the old world. Like you said, it's a small monster specialist, an ambush predator that feeds on small monsters by lunging at them with quick bursts of speed. It defends itself from larger predators like Lagiacrus and Plesioth by flashing its huge wings as a threat display, to warn of the toxicity of its spines. Volichthyos reproduce through the "overwhelming numbers" strategy, meaning that they lay so many eggs that, inevitably, at least one will reach adulthood. However, this has caused a bit of a problem on the west coast of the Old World and the coasts of the New World. Volichthyos eggs will stick and attach to whatever they touch first in order to keep them anchored. The eggs are very hardy, and can survive rapid changes in temperature quite well. This means that they can attach to ships and stay dormant until they reach better climates to hatch. This means they can accidentally be brought along by ships to new areas, where the natives are not adapted to them. The Guild knows about this and takes measures to prevent the spread of Volichthyos by instating a policy for ships to regularly check and scrub their hulls to prevent hitch hikers. But this doesn't always work out for them... Occasionally, Volichthyos are sighted in areas they are not native to. When this happens, the Guild immediately sends out a missive for all hunters in the area to start hunting all Volichthyos in the region. Fortunately, these problems have been quelled before they could begin. But it's only a matter of time... This is, of course, inspired by the real life invasion of the Atlantic by the Lion Fish! Let me know how I did Ginge!
I actually want a High/G-rank Piscine Wyvern, I'm of the idea that we need more higher threat-level monsters that aren't just *"Another 11th hour Flying Wyvern"*. That's why I love monsters like Yian Garuga and Goss Harag, take monsters from mostly-known low-level monster types and make a challenging creature out of them!
I know Yian Garuga is a winged monster, *BUT* it's a BirdWyvern, a usually low-level creature, and also extra dangerous despite not being bigger in size than your usual Rathian.
@@peridrawland5955 Rathian can get pretty large. that aside, Yian Garuga is potentially one of the most intelligent non-Elder Dragon monsters in all of the series.
I like the lionfish/pufferfish hybrid concept! I think for its fight, it should have 2 stages of inflation. Stage 1 where it has some gas and can jump around the hunter like a Chameleos since it's basically a balloon. Stage 2 where it's pretty much a Paolumu in terms of movement. Since it relies on air to inflate, it has a sensitive gas bladder that forcefully expels stored air if the monster is flinched 3 times and cannot inflate to stage 2 if the monster has a broken chest. It'd also be naturally colored to blend into its environment to avoid being easily spotted by predators like Pink Rathians or Legianas, regularly getting into fights with Anjanaths & Odogarons & actively competing with Paolumus for turf.
Frontier has an endgame High/Goushu Rank system called Hardcore or just HC. This gave you the ability to hunt stronger versions of monsters for special parts. Usually this would result in the monster getting a visual change such as Hardcore Tigrex having slightly larger ear-crests and its limbs featuring more blue pigmentation. In addition to this, they'd usually get a moveset overhaul or updated AI, and while some of them were pretty poorly designed (Hardcore Yian Kut-ku), others would get a really unique and creative fight that would make your approach to fighting any given monster completely different from the original. The reason I'm saying this is because of HC Cephadrome, which has currently skyrocketed up to being my favorite piscine wyvern of the lot. They lessened the downtime of the hunt by making sure he doesn't stay underground very long, only really doing so as part of a couple specific attacks. His fight is much more engaging, and he even uses the other Cephalos around him to perform team attacks, in a similar vein to Great Izuchi. TL;DR, Frontier's Hardcore Cephadrome is proof to me that it's entirely possible to make piscine wyverns that don't suck.
I like your idea of piscine wyverns and honestly as someone who’s MR999 in MHRS I feel juratodis was the most underwhelming fight and even great itzuchi feels more engaging despite it being the 1st large monster you fight
Snake Wyvern classification has the same issue, but I think both should be used more loosely. The ancient Piscine Wyvern in the art books should be used as a basis, Piscine's could be long and eel like, they could be manta ray shaped, theres just so many options and since its a classification separate from Flying (which seems to be reptilian focused, or at least Monster Hunter's reptile evolving into mammal take) But they should really use the fact that fish aren't related to reptiles to make weirder and varied designs.
Currently starting MH3U and actually liking Gobul a little more than I did back when I played vanilla Tri. Even though in terms of body mechanics it's a Leviathan, the way they combined an anglerfish, porcupine fish, frogfish, flounder, and others into a pretty convincing MH water monster deserves at least some props. If they don't bring back underwater combat, maybe a mudskipper or lungfish Piscine that can operate out of water would work; fish deserve another chance.
I have a bunch of concepts for an MH fan game which is primarily new fan monsters. In that game, I have 1 piscine wyvern, which was provided to me by a friend who had an aquatic-oriented fan game concept (that monster is also on the fence for just getting replaced). At the same time, I have 2 amphibians, 5 leviathans (3 being on the aquatic side), and three small-monster fish, with only three on that list being returning (Pokaradon, Nibelsnarf, and Zamtrios). The issue, like you mentioned, is that all the other classes are taking away the good aquatic/fishy designs. Although I feel like how enjoyable fights are matters more in this context as designs like Plesi and Beotodus aren’t bad, they’re just attached to less captivating fights (although I don’t actually mind either of them).
I kinda liked Lavasioth in MHFU but damn they made him annoying when they added the Agnaktor mechanic while making it harder to soften the hardened Lava! I love the idea that you have to use sling ammo to heat it up but i felt like it took to many of them to do so and at that time it would already go back to lava
The silver and gold "lavasioth" actually are a fantastic fight! They compliment eachother very well and their attacks are very silly but deadly. Fighting them with my husband was one of my favorite experiences with Frontier. At least they are FAR better than supremacy Teostra and Pariapuria which they feature alongside. Honestly my favorite supremacy-strength monsters.
I personally like Jyuratodus, Beotodus, Cephadrome, and Delex. I knew of Lavasioth before Jyuratodus, and I like mud fish more just because it's more believable to me and we needed another mud beasty. I strongly dislike Plesioth and not because of its hit boxes but because I don't like that they're so wyvern-like. Those wing-like fins would serve no purpose other than flying out of the water or display. But fishy monsters that swim in mud or sand is cool to me. I just wish they were more fleshed out in their abilities.
Personally, if they did more with Piscene Wyverns, I would say they would be great. They possess that mindless “you fit in my mouth and are also moving- so I eat you” feel. They also tend to display more erratic and unpredictable movements, that can often catch even the most seasoned hunter off-guard. While they do stand as a great “build-up to real wyvern“ challenge- It would be great to see them implemented with the further various morphologies. The ocean is full of insane fish. Imagine a Moray Eel with, idk, centipede like legs so that it can move like an eel on land. Add some bells and whistles, and boom.
I think a part of the issue is Leviathans kinda showing up and stealing the spotlight (and the ideas) like why are Gobul and Nibelsnarf Leviathans when they could both fit as Piscine
I think the Piscine wyvern class needs a Deviljho tier monster to show off their full potential. Something threatening, invasive, and designed to strike fear into the hunters. A lionfish would actually be a great inspiration for this.
For Jyura it would've been nice to see it's seedlings latch onto you or other monsters like Giginox as it was born more like a virus than a fullfletched fish. What Lavasioth needs is just some more attacks like Basarios or Magmadron. Basarios are able to make the whole area it's playground and can get from one side to the other quicker than most people think. It would've also been cool to see it have a thicker cold lavaskin that can bounce as many attacks like Basarios before it's body odor attacks. Meanwhile it could've been given a more spy-like lava-diving like Magmadron, in that way it would've been more interesting than jumping from 1 pool into the other and just swaying around 3 lava puddles in a random place.
Problem? All the cool concepts are given or stolen by leviathan's/elder dragons Aruganosu goruganosu/narwa and Inushi Jjuratodus/Almudron Lavasioth/ Agnaktor Beotodus/ Glacial agnaktor The only ones that haven't been ripped off so shamelessly are plesioth and the hammerhead thing
I admit I like the general design of the piscine wyverns (jyuratodus is a giant walking coelacanth and Beotodus is frankly a cooler version of that). I’d be lying if I didn’t say Jyratodus did help further sell me on Monster Hunter when I first jumped on board with World since I had fallen in love with the series visually due to the prehistoric influences. But outside of Beotodus who I do genuinely love, the rest are sadly just forgettable and I definitely understand why they come across as either uninteresting or just bad (yes I’m well aware of the infamous Plesioth). Lavasioth’s armor is cool, but I didn’t particularly like fighting him after the first couple times. It’s also pretty depressing that Jyuratodus is the only piscine in Rise and he is the worst monster in the game, or at least bottom 5 for me (not in World, Leshen and Behemoth are frankly way worse to me frankly). Cephadrome I do kinda like as well, but Namielle way outdid him with its more wild design. Long story short the piscines have a huge amount of potential but they’re just not utilized effectively enough. Also I really don’t like that they’re “wyverns” when they’re clearly just fish, not reptiles.
Imagine if MH6 had underwater combat and introduced some Piscine Wyverns which could ONLY be fought underwater (think Epioth, but really big and angry). Suddenly, Capcom would be free to massively increase the variety in body shapes and implement all kinds of fun, quirky elemental sea life. If we got a really cool Piscine Wyvern as our next flagship, even an amphibious one, I bet people would stop complaining about their design as a class.
So like third gen again? I had the same thought watching this video though. Reintroducing water combat would open up so many possibilities for unique monster designs that wouldn't be possible with only land-based combat. We could have piscine wyverns and not have to factor in legs lmao. Ceadeus is a great example of that, as its design is literally impossible to use for a land-based monster. Plus we'd get Lagiacrus back. And Gobul. Gobul is underrated imo.
I agree, most Piscine Wyverns in monster hunter look meh. I hope in the next Monster Hunter game they introduce more Piscine Wyverns with a distinct look like the lionfish design in this video.
It's a shame Picine wyverns have such a massive amount of potential to make cool monsters and the your lion fish wyvern even proves that (that lion fish was completely awesome btw) , they have the base concept for a fun fight down as off rise now they just need to flesh them out as a class, Also he's my opinion on the picine wyverns Cephadrome gives me ptsd from his fight in FU, but I acutaly think he has a alright design and has to potential to be a cool take on a sand shark Plesioth is a meme and I love it and I hope it will return with a improved fight, gen 1/2 sucked tho Lavisioth is so meh, there are better lava monsters Jyuratodus acutaly has a decent fight is rise but design wise is also meh, I thought he had the potential to be a fun take on like a muddy bullshark Beotodus is pretty neet and I like the shark horn it has going
I thought the lantern fish in Tri was pretty neat. Unfortunately everyone but me seemed to hate underwater combat, so it's unlikely we will ever see him again.
@@bri1085 Gobul is a good reason for them to expand the usage of the Piscine Wyvern classification. I imagine like real life fish, that the Piscine evolutionary tree is crazy diverse and I see no reason for it to not have overlap or mirroring the terrestrial Wyvern trees. Whose to say Gobul is more related to Lagiacrus than it is Plesioth? Just because it shares a body plan in universe and a skeletal rigging IRL? If they brought back Gobul and used the fact that it fights more like Modern Jyuratodus than say Ludroth/MItsuzune as a reason to reclassify it as a Piscine Wyvern, all the better.
@@DanielisAwesome52 in all honesty none of the monster groups in gen 3 apart from the bears fight alike. Maybe Lagi and Ludro, leviathans have very diverse fights. Agnaktor and Lagicrus and Gobul are three completely different fights, and Mizu is completely different from them as well. Gen 3 just happened to have properly thought out their monster classes. Brute Wyverns were also very diverse in gen 3. Piscine Wyverns just weren't well thought out when they were introduced, maybe down the line they might figure it out. But I don't think the answer is shifting Gobul, and by extension Nibelsnarf really solves that. The fights already borrow a bit from piscine Wyverns with the burrowing. And gobul is just a monster that's trapped with underwater combat, even more than Lagicrus.
@@bri1085 I don't agree Gobul is trapped underwater, give him a speed boost on land/surface water and he fights virtually the same. (I personally think people romanticize how "different" underwater combat made things) However I did read up on Gobul a little, and I don't think they would change him to a Piscine. Turns out he breathes air and doesn't have gills. So Taxonomically he probably is a Leviathan and not a Fish. I do think though, that using his gimmick and Angler/Puffer Fish design could be used for a very different Piscine Wyvern design, maybe even instead the video's Lion Fish idea could just use some of his tactics like burying itself and puffing up under a hunter. I think Piscines need to diversify body types, and having convergent skeletons with Leviathan/Fanged Wyverns/Snake Wyverns would be a great way to improve the overall classification. I think the reason they are so lame atm is that they all use the same body-type, even Plesioth isn't much different despite its wings. Whereas IRL fish have crazy different body shapes and speciation. So a four leg-walking Fish that puffs up, swims "underground" like modern day Mud/Water monster do would be a great way to break the mold. Same with introducing an Eel monster that moves like Almudron or Najarala.
This might be a silly idea for Capcom to make But why not they make this kind of Piscine wyvern that can attack with its fins I have mine made in legos Combination with... Blue Shark, fins Sea Robin, false legs under the fins Stone Fish, dorsal fin And Thresher Shark, tail I still think the Sea Robin would be a good choice
Coral highlands would’ve a great place for creepy flying piscine wyverns I also am sad namielle wasn’t a base game elder dragon. It’s so cool to me especially its water slime gimmick that could’ve been given to piscine wyverns
I think Delex’s design is interesting. I’d like to see a Great Delex or something similar one day. Volicthyos is a really cool concept! Alex did a fantastic job refining your early concept.
I'm the odd one and like cephy sand shark, and well fish lava fish in gen 4 was way better then world. I like mud and ice fish so I'm hoping for something better more improvements
I know this video is 9 months old but you really missed the mark. I don't think your DIY design is bad, but to complain "they're all fish" and then proceed to indeed make one that's certainly not far off from what already exists kind of defeats the core of the argument. Piscine might mean of; or related to fish but CAPCOM also put Diablos and Tigrex in a class called "Flying Wyverns" despite only being winged. Piscine Wyverns could encompass all things nautical, and take inspiration from real marine life outside of just "fish". Think of more crustaceans, cephalopods, mantas, invertebrates, turtles or even unique mammals like the manatee. There's no reason why we couldn't go further beyond what we've seen in the piscine classification, and though I agree it's been the most underwhelming and boring category thus far- I feel that adding "just another fish" in your DIY took away from that point in the video.
I think Volycthyos is a spectacular monster. I've seen it before and never knew anything besides its design and it's amazing. For my own Piscene Wyvern, I am in love with a mudskipper that lives in a mangrove mudflats with a quadrupedal build. Its fight would be made up of bites, tail slaps, shooting mud and body slams. It can also fight underwater
its hard to find a good pliacines when they havent done under water combat since 3 having more different kinds of fish and not repeating the whole swimming underground idea would help i remember the angler puffer in 3 and i just thought that was a pretty great idea
I am actually just disappointed that Jyuratodus and Lavasioth fights suck. I'm actually just alright with their design, but the only problem I have is that their fight is barely engaging, especially Lavasioth. It just feels like a slog if anything. I hope the next installment's piscine wyverns have a little more variety in their moveset and probably gimmicks.
cephalos : horrible cephadrome : horrible plesioth : horrible green plesioth : damn horrible lavasioth : horrible delex : let me goddamn carve mh3u plesioth : actually a bit fun jyuratodus : obnoxious gajau : give me your goddamn steel whiskers beotodus : less obnoxious than jyura, horrible
The coral highlands area could have introduced a type of aerial piscine wyvern, maybe have it be sail fish themed or maybe a type of parrotfish that fed on the coral. Hell, they could have LITERALLY made it a parrotfish wyvern, using the pukei pukei skeleton, hell I would have PREFERRED that over pukei pukei,
Name: Morinoda-Ibā English title: Diver of the Forest Species: Piscine Wyvern Utilizable Elements and Ailments: Elements: Water Ailments: Bleed Weaknesses: Elements: Ice and Fire (Fire removes leaf armor) Ailments: Blast (blast removes leaf armor) and Poison Breakable areas: Anywhere where the iron-cartilage is found, and the average best weapon to break them are blunt and piercing weapons (You cannot sever the tail) Resistances: Elements: Water and Thunder Ailments: Stun and Sleep Rank: High Rank and above. Appearance: Morinoda-Ibā is a thinner bipedal Piscine Wyvern with green sparkling scales and a more narrow triangular head shape. Morinoda-Iba also possesses various blade-like "cartilage" that protrudes from its skin, and has a cresent blade on its tail. Morinoda-Iba eats iron deposits to get these iron consistent cartilage. The blades will shine with small red lines going threw the blades, which represents that the monster is pumping blood and heat into its blades, this only happens when the monster is enraged. Mechanics: Morinoda-Ibā leaps up to the trees or climbs up walls to reach them. Then it "swims" (Which is more of a mixture of slithering and swimming), across branches and leaves, collecting them on its scales, which creates a leaf armor of sorts. This "swimming" also causes the branches to be sliced by the blades which make them fall on opponents. It will peek its head out of the trees to shoot out swallowed up leaves, which are a decently strong ranged attack. You can shoot flash bombs to speed the process of it coming out of the trees, this will also make it flail around. Eventually it will slam down to hit you (Keep in mind this does a lot of damage), then it will try to lunge around trying to cut you to bits. The leaf armor gives a small extra resistance bonus to any opposing attacks. Enemies: Mainly any monster that is in its territory, or even near it. Areas which it is found: Ancient forest, where its den can be found in the Rathian area, and the Wildspire Waste, where its den can be found in the forest area. Subspecies: Shokkā Morinoda-Ibā is a subspecies of normal Morinoda-Ibā that paralyzes you with its blades, which has fused with a special electricity conductor made in the body. Sadly it loses the water Element. It can infuse the branches it cuts with the electricity by just cutting them. It has slightly yellow blades, which glow when it is enraged, this means that they get a Thunder element along with the normal paralysis Ailment. This variant gets a resistance to paralysis and thunder, are now are a bit weak against water. This subspecies is found in the Hoarfrost Reach, where its den is found near the Beotodus den, Ancient Forest, and the Wildspire Waste, where its den is found in the normal areas. Its Rank is. Master rank. Rate this Piscine Wyvern 1/10, feel free to draw this in your image
Also, why are they so afraid of designing bosses(by that I mean particularly tough mons like Espinas, Seregios, Aknator, Black Diablos) should have group mechanics like the Izuchi, as in summoning their immature variants or something. I mean, even mons like Royal Ludroth only does that rarely But I really want is mayhaps something like a buffing effect, annoying stuff like debuffs(like Baggi's sleepy spits) combined with stuff like combination attack(like how Great Izuchi performs them) The major mon(parent, alpha, boss, senior) can even do stuff like increasing their followers with increased DEF or elemental resistances between several instances, or outright have their summoned followers have increased health and flinch/stun resist
They need to be underwater THATS THE PROBLEM LMAO😂 oh by the way I made this before watching the video because I saw the title and said to myself “oh I know why 😃” and made it so If he says this in the vid than I PREDICTED THE FUTURE WOOOO
One problem I have is the Piscines generally lack a Lure Part. That thing that a hunter looks at and goes "Yeah I wanna hit that." Glavenus' head and heated tail, Gammoth's trunk, all of Astalos, Mizutsune's fins when he angers, Gore Magala's feelers, Nibelsnarf's underbelly, gills, and uvula, Duramburos' tailcase, Zinogre's head. I can keep going, but the general gist is that most monsters have something that stays in a hittable range a lot of the time and looks like it can break/would hurt if you hit it a bunch. As a category, the piscine family doesn't really hit that mark, in both form and function. Design-wise, as the video points out, they're a tube with legs, and while the presence of fins that tear or scarred hide is an okay indicator for breaking, nothing on any of them really shouts "HERE! HIT HERE!" Just "blunts hit head, sharps... Do whatever I guess." And that's when the mechanics let you, since standing out of water with stamina generally hoists any target beyond their legs out of the reach of several attacks, while being submerged makes their hotboxes an absolute nightmare to reliably hit. Insult to injury is that breakable legs to encourage tripping (to actually hit anything else) is almost unseen, and takes most of their health to achieve in the rare instances it's present. Exhausting them is usually a viable strat, provided you can land enough initial hits to the head to drain them. Also, personal opinion but Jyuratodus' mud armor is a great mechanic except for how often and quickly he can replenish it. Barroth is a way better balance with how few places on his maps he can actually recover his mud at, and how he's easily hittable to interrupt him during it to get more time to actually break his parts. I always feel like I spend 80% of the hunt scraping mud off Jyura one part at a time only to get one actual break and kill him trying to get a second. TL;DR Capcom, give fish shorter legs and stupider looking heads or some weird fish part I can cut off. There's lots of weird fish with weird parts, pick some and slap em together. Make a quadrupedal one, like Zamtrios
The did an Oopsie(multiple oopsies actually) the Piscine wyverns aren't even fish, they're basically funky amphibians. Some like Gobul and Nibelsnarf are great because their gimmick. Speaking of amphibians, they should totally make more amphibious(like literally frogs, toads, salamanders, cecilians) mons for us to fight! Also, immature Tetsucabra is so cuuute
I’m fine with Plesi and the Lavas (except for Cephadrome and Juri because they’re just not good), but man having more interesting fish monsters would be great. My favorite group are the Carapaceons because they’re just really funny to me and Plesi is really funny and I like that but the fights just suck. The most fun I had fighting one was in 3U during a underwater hunt. It was so much fun, but take away the underwater hunts and it becomes boring again. They’re just so bland. The group really needs a rework and a couple monsters that really make them pop.
my concept for a piscene wyvern is a blobfish/gulper eel that is chunky but with a bigass mouth that has a massive hitbox but lots of endlag and can get stuck. Most of the monster is exteremly tough, but the tail and the underside of the mouth are soft and can be attacked by exploiting endlag, and also helped by the fact that the monster is not very long. After dealing enough damage to that the rest of the monster will crack and become all flabby, then you will be able to hit it normally for a bit until it submerges itself into water to heal its shell. Also takes some inspiration from prince rupert's drop (a piece of glass that is near indestructible but when you break its tail the entire thing shatters)
Bite the bullet... ask for underwater combat to return 😈 I don't care how many people hated it, but that's the best way to introduce biodiversity and adjust piscine wyverns. They would not need legs, so they'd be far more believable and work to create a fully-realized ecosystem... after all, Ceadeus would be at the top of SOME kind of food chain that doesn't just include Plesioths and Ludroths, right? So fuck the haters and lean in. Since newer games have been making things so much easier, I don't see why there couldn't at least be an _option_ for underwater combat that not everyone needs to engage in. Like, if you want to hit up a chain of islands and do some aquatic hunting, give us the opportunity. If land-based hunters can't deal, they can stay on land. Plenty of games have content people miss out on due to difficulty, so just consider underwater hunting like that. MH has MORE than enough land-based monsters and continues to make more, so give us super-dedicated hunters a snack.
I've only been playing since World but I think the issue has less to do with monster design and more to do with gameplay. I've dabbled in game design a little bit, so I'm no expert but a lot of my thoughts come from that sort of view. A lot of monster hunter gameplay involves finding the openings to get damage in, and a lot of piscine wyvern gameplay involves sitting around and waiting for it to surface. Gameplay wise, this leaves some emptier moments in the fight where instead of anything happening, I'm literally just waiting for SOMETHING. I think they could go a long way to fix this by just expanding where they pull design ideas from. Give me more deep sea horrors, like leviathans and krakens or giant eels and megalodons. Have leviathans be massively long, like surround a small zone long, but have most of the body stay underground, only surfacing for attacks. Have Krakens constantly attempting grapples and restricting movement. Have Eels be fast and evasive. Really evoke the sea depths feeling the class can have. Jyuratodos and lavisioth are just beeg fish. I know the WiiU monster hunter had underwater combat, and that didnt exaclty go swimingly so maybe its just a matter of time before the MH team gives the piscene wyverns some design respect?
(S)hitbox of old made piscines utter shit to fight. This before the amount of time wasting shenanigans at that. GU plesi & volganos/ lavasioth were arguably fine imo, if a bit bland since they have VERY limited playspace. Honestly wish they play around with piscines more, leaning towards stuffs like Gobul, etc. They arguably have the most potential in variety and yet we got friggin bounce city bushitty volganos in world.... Underwater wasn't even that bad, if it even was bad at all tbh. That plus how much verticality is emphasized in rise/ 5th gen in general, imagine if cephalos/ cephadrome gets a glow up where we can chase them down an opening and yoink them out to our playspace than chasing the bloody thing swimming in semi circles around an open sandfield. Honestly weirded out that Capcom puts more chips in all elder dragons having novas and hp gating spectacle shenanigans than coming up with ways to reinvent unique monsters like piscines, gobul, peco, etc.
i do LIKE Piscines, they do deserve to exist, the issue is that they are either too weak (Beotodus), too limited in location (Jyratodus) or too fucking ANNOYING (Lavasioth) they COULD be good, they just need to work more on mobility i feel, like when they are swimming around i feel is when they are at their best The Lionfish idea is amazing, i sort of whish this was real in World, imagine a lionfish paralysing things in the coral highlands with all it's melee attacks, with part breaks removing that parts status ailments
i think its bland cuz of the fish wyvern is you know they fish... what fish need? is water.. welp water combat is still only on 3 soo... thats why its lacking maybe in future game when water combat return but we'll see.. gobul and nebul i think this 2 is suppose to be piscine but welp i dont know XD
I think the problem with piscine wyverns is the concept itself. To be one: 1 It must swim; Not only it has to be stronguer swiming than "in land",you also have to give it something to swimg (sand, snow, lava, water, mud...) 2 Its desing must be fish like, but with strong legs. For it, campcom has desided the fish wyverns have legs only for stand up (i dont remember one runing) 3 it has to have a wyvern body, wing and legs, and it must be able to stand out the swiming mode So, they need a better concept. Beatodus is one of the best cause he has some unique attacks and high movility without being anoying. So they may need more "roles" 1 The low tier, they has crapy attacks and movility, they are easy, but anoying (lavasiot hardening or going ito lava) 2 The high tier, they have strong attacks focused in 2 variants: specialiced in rangue/ special attacks (a plesiot rework?) or focused in high movility on swiming (like beatodus) 3 More skeletons variety. Maybe a new species that has a siren pose more than a strong legged one. For instance, imagine this 13:38 without the legs, walking with the arms; Or maybe it has some tentacles or fins instead of those legs that let him to do surprise jumps... I really think the siren tipe would give much better piscine wyvern desings.
Piscine Wyverns were supposed to be big things with swimming as a mechanic. Just like MH3U and the huge aquatic elder dragon and the Lagiacrus. Without an amphibious assault mechanism you're essentially cutting half of what a piscine wyvern can be, thusly removing any interesting aspect of their dual natures and essentially making them 'weaker' land monsters. This weakness is also very apparent when you fight them as their newer moves are forced to be hamstrung to fit a terrestrial environment, even if they're legitimately just swimming in the floor at times. I doubt, unless Capcom brings back aquatic environments, will the piscine wyvern ever recover. They will most likely be regulated to early level monsters as a token inclusion at that rate.
Its kinda funny; Leviathans are basically the better version of Piscine wyverns. They have way more variety; cooler designs and gear, and MUCH better fights. Its sad that we have a lot of cool fish in the real world; but MH has had a problem of being stuck with the same 2-legged fish Rath body plan for generations lol
As a Hammer bro I like them, it's fun to bonk them in the head but that's all they've got going for them, boring movests, no fun parts to break or tails to cut... I'd make a hydra, with a head cutting mechanic, maybe 2 tails... An octopus/squid wyvern could be cool too.
I only recently got MHW, but for some reason the moment I even saw plesioth (or jyratod-something? I don’t know these creatures names lmao) I hated it, and therefor didn’t like the incoming fight. I still haven’t gone out of my way to fight another one. Even when I saw lavasioth, it was only to check off ‘sight all elder recess creatures.’ Once I could, I left it. I think I had known these two piscine wyverns were hated beforehand, I can’t remember from where, but I think that played a big role in my opinion of it.
I have to disagree with most of the things I've heard in the video. Especially on some points, namely the statement about fish wyverns representing "deep sea" more than leviathans, and the fact they should've looked better (which is not an argument but an oppinion). First, pretty much everywhere, and since tales of leviathans exist, they have been portrayed as monstruous deep sea creatures that often dwell in the abyss, deep below surface and only come up when they hunt a prey. Fishes can be found in *any* depth of water. Makes more sense to me that leviathans would represent deep sea, while piscine wyverns represent river, mud, or any other shallow water creatures. So to me, it sounds completely irrationnal. Secondly, about the beauty and overall looks of those monsters, not every creature in the world looks good or "refined". There IS bland things out there, and fishes are no exception. The fact they decided to take a couple bland fishes as a base for some of their monsters is actually smart and better thought out than the contrary. It gives a sense of normality and consistency to the world of MH, and makes it look more natural to the players. About your take on the "Volicthyos" as you named it, it does sound like a good concept, BUT for a game in which water combats are a thing, and not just a meme. Don't get me wrong, I loved water combats in Tri and 3 Ultimate, even tho it was clunky and stuff, but many people didn't, and I must agree that while I did like it, it'd be realy nice if it was completely reworked before its next appearanceI'd absolutely love to see it appear in the next MH game. I don't see a good way to implement that "black mist" thing unless, once again, under water. For the spikes getting lodged in the players, sound like a good idea to me. Punishing players for attacking from a specific angle tho, I'm realy not a fan. The reason for this is that hunters need to break monster parts in order to improve their loot which would be an absolute nightmare, which would in turn result in an atrocious farm for the monster's equipment set. It would also force melee players to hit parts that are either unpractical or suboptimal for their equipped weapon or get punished (being punished for hitting the parts your weapon is good against is kinda stupid), and in multiplayer, it would force players to bunch up around the same spot, making them hit each other, meaning they'll stagger their own allies unless they sacrificed a gem slot. Also pretty much any attack or movement the monster does could make you hit a spikey spot instead of an open one. Also wider attacks like the hammer's whirlwnd or pretty much the entire hunting horn's moveset could make you hit spikes even tho you're trying to focus the openings. Both scenarios would feel unfair, and would be pretty frustrating and annoying to say the least. So yeah, pretty good concept if you're a seasoned gunbow, gunlance, bow or lance user, but pretty much no other weapon type would have a great time fighting this. Especially short range weapons like the dual daggers or the sword and shield, likely not able to hit anything but one or two parts of the monster at best (or the entire body if flying dual dagger style but that would ALSO punish you) which the monster could end up covering for who knows how long. Maybe the entire fight ? Maybe only a short moment ? If the "orient its spikes in a particuliar direction" phase lasts for only a couple seconds, it's perfectly fine, but if it's as long as the electric charge on Zinogres, or even half as long ? Let me just *never* fight this thing and hope it finds a place as the least hunted monster ever in the entire MH history.
Imo, the only way to make them even remotely interesting and unique at this point is to full-on retconn them into having no legs. Making them full fish would immediately make them infinitely more unique fights and monsters, especially with how Rise and World have handled shallow water. Lavasioth is a given seeing how it moves through solid rock, and Jyuratodus being a living fossil should be the only exception and keep the legs. The entire design just doesn't work and even the (awesome) concept you showed in the video suffers from it. The legs look goofy under any circumstance and the wings just make it look more like a flying wyvern.
It's weird, as a kid I used to love hunting Cephadrome, I have NO idea why. Also, Namielle is the best ocean-based monster, but it's an elder dragon. We just need more like Namielle in terms of unique designs. How about a full on whale that uses directed sonic attacks to deal heat damage, which is a real thing. Or some kind of acid-spitter that reduces weapon sharpness super rapidly.
We could have: An electric eel wyvern mixed with a Lionfish. It could make electric traps with it's fallen spines, that and/or make slimey trails that can trip you and make you fall in a electric slime puddle. A Dunkloustleus wyvern with steaming water beams. Maybe it could be a deviljho tier monster, they can make it shoot water beams into the ground with so much force that the beam comes out of the floor like a geiser. Two Angler Fish wyverns, the small one can be the male that attaches itself to the larger female, we could give it poison or paralisis breath. The larger female could either flash it's prey with it's lure, or it could show a new monster attack, a "hypno" state, the light makes you walk towards it before you get bitten. These are some ideas that I had for some time 😅.
Well in most cases monsters will be a base for all other monsters of its ilk slightly branch off from. One fish looks and feels like another fish. I don't like palette swaps, and minor adjustments to make it a different thing. That fish would be interesting to see in a MH game. And damn I wihs these Raths (Rathalos and Rathian) would stop being used. I am sick to death having to fight these monsters in every bloody MH game. They are just boring dragons, like many other monsters. So freakin boring.
Right I'm going to have to disagree on the "piscine makes them limited" thing because fish are VERY diverse visually, we've only ever gotten piscine wyverns that are based off of super generic fish like sharks or coelacanths to have monsters based off of, but weird looking fish like sawfish, sailfish, seahorses, sarcastic fringe head, and maybe gars or frog fish too would be amazing. The only challenge would be to diversify the movesets and if it looks too much like a fish and not like a wyvern it would become a leviathan like gobul.
You know what... you're actually right. So many different fish species and they keep going back to the most basic fish monster you can possibly imagine. That also limits how the fight works.
Here's a few ideas for new ones: 1. A barracuda styled one that's low to the ground in design and darts all over, trying to bite hunters. 2. An archer fish that tries to shoot water "bullets". It would try to keep at a certain distance. 3. A stingray that can camouflage and attacks with tail swipes that can poison. 4. A snake head. I honestly can't imagine anything special with this one. Maybe it's more aggressive and takes longer to run away from?
Even as it is I still like the Pisince wyverns because there just fish that evolved to look like wyverns to survive And the amount of potential then is so astronomically high, but unfortunately, Capcom aren't exactly going to see that until the community actually gives them love.. and that makes me sad ;^; Like we got a mantis that create a Mech resembling a dragon that's pretty cool, and we got fish that resemble wyverns is pretty cool
Very nice video, but as a French I need to correct this at 1:53 it isn't "wivre"..... The correct spelling is "vouivre" That's all for me.... Keep on the good work dude
I think one of the big problems is that the piscine wyverns not only had a bad starter monster (cephalos and cephadrome), but their most recognized monster (Plesioth) is also not great. If anything, the piscine wyverns suffer from being a gen 1 monster, where everyone was basically a flying wyvern rip-off and not having a "true" end-game threat. Then at gen 3, the leviathans literally stole their main role as sea monsters. What comes down to why piscine wyverns are bad imo is because if Plesioth is their strongest and most recognizable piscine wyvern, he is used as the base for all other piscines that came after him. The problem is that Plesioth still feels like a variation of the base flying wyvern, so by following this principle, all the others come down to have the same problems as their base. They all feel as forgetable flying wyverns that doesn't fly (with the exception of Beatodus, which i also think is the best psicine wyvern ever made). Unless they drop Plesioth to a mid tier threat and make a new "high end" piscine wyvern that doesn't follow the flying wyvern body type, where they can base a couple new ones in the lower tiers, i feel piscines will keep being the shit tier monsters they are.
It's a shame they didn't get the remake treatment, after the incredible job did with leviathans, but piscine wyverns seems to mostly boil down to either being a punching bag like beotodus, or being being an overkill armoured fish with a hip check. The Lionfish design looks a lot like Amatsu in some ways.
Hmm... I dunno. I think they were pretty cool in World. Lavasioth and Beotodus were pretty cool. I also don't really think that they even need to be all that great. There must be monsters that are less impressive to make it possible that there can be monsters that ARE impressive. Thats why the Prey and Drome and the Kut Ku etc. are so important so if you ask me, they are good as they are and important as a step stone to the more awesome and brutal stuff. But I woudln't complain about some more special and awesome ones to appear, that do more crazy cool stuff.
I've always thought that Piscine wyverns were meant to embody convergent evolution, and a great place would be to start with some of the existing fish. Namely, the bomb and blast arowanas which are a staple of the games. Not only are they a very cool family of fish, but the existence of blast element/blastblight as a mechanic means that you have something to work with mechanically. In terms of the existing piscine wyverns, I think the biggest downfall is that most of them are themed around having a tough defense and moving in areas the player is at a disadvantage at. On their own, either of these is fine, just look at Baroth, but combined it's just two things that make the player feel ineffective.
I would really like to see a piscine wyvern that is intelligent and calculating. Fish are much smarter than we give them credit for ! Some can recognize themselves in mirrors and many have very complex social behaviors. a piscine wyvern that actively commands a school could be neat actually . . . and a separate, more standalone piscine wyvern that has the character of intelligence, the vibe of it. but its a very different type of intelligence to us mammals in a way that feels alien. That'd be cool rlly hoping piscine wyverns get more attention in future games, fingers crossed
i feel like they're just making a big fish and substituting water with something else. because they limited the whole tree to "yea fish" it severely cripples it. you can't even have like a giant octopus who lives in the treetops of a rain forest who makes like a funnel for all the rainwater to collect somewhere cause it'd be a cephalopod. just comes down to "this giant fish swim in ____!" maybe i'd be more diverse with the swimming mechanic back cause that would open a lot more possibilities, but then i'd feel like some monster would only be in the water cause fish.
10:52 👀 Hey look it’s me.!
What is that weapon?
@@sefatsilverlake3816 it’s called the “Magnet Spikes” it was introduced in Monster Hunter Frontier and was specifically made to hunt Zenith monsters. It’s has a slicing mode (what you see in the video) and a blunt mode. It was made to do everything and is THE most OP weapon in all for MH.! Also EXTREMALY fun.! One of my favorite weapons to use ever.!
@@MothpilledTV That sounds awesome! Did that game had more weapons?
@@sefatsilverlake3816I know there is also Tonfa.
As a big fan of all the current Piscines, the main problem is that they took the Plesioth/Lavasioth evolutive tree and just focused on expanding that branch; with the only exception being Delex and Ancient Serpent (which has yet to appear in a game by the way).
And the worst part is that Piscine aren't really bound by skeletons, on paper they are one of the classes with highest potential and variety; you can go wild with them, you can have a Piscine with Tigrex skeleton, or Odogaron, or Najarala, or Deviljho or straight up a brand new one etc...
It's like if Bird Wyvern were exclusively formed by Velocidrome close family.
Or if Fanged Beast were made up just by apes.
They need the Gen5 Fanged Wyvern treatment.
Hopefully MH6...
Agreed. And if mh6 has underwater they should make a legless piscine wyvern that can only be fought in water. Kinda like gobul but without the land combat.
Tbh i feel like gobul and niblesnarf should have been piscine wyverns...
But yeah Jyuratodus, Beotodus, old Lavasioth and MH3U Plesioth are in my opinion Good monsters. Infact Jyuratodus became my faiv due to people constantly bullying him lol.
Tho i dont like Cephadrome. He was okay in MH4U but in other games hes allways been just... bleh or Horrible.
You know, those are some pretty interesting ideas. Might have to consider them for some fan monsters I’m making.
@@draw2death421 Wouldn’t legless piscines just be large monster fish or is the classification different?
Y'know there is technically a piscine wyvern with Tigrex skeleton. Although it's still classified as a Flying Wyvern. It's from Monster Hunter Frontier and it's called Pariapuria.
@@saurianfan7102 I was about to suggest that. I headcanon'd that Pariapuria was originally classified as a Flying Wyvern after its similar physique to Tigrex and other Pseudo Wyverns but, over time, the Hunter's Guild would eventually reclassify it as a Piscine Wyvern, albeit a highly derived species, after further study reveals it to be more closely related to the likes of Plesioth.
As other say, part of their problem is that they generally revolve around the same body-type and design plan. Beotodus was immediately more striking than its peers in 5th Gen with the huge horn and shark fin, though it still fell under the same canopy. Expanding the clade to include more diverse options, reflecting the myriad of creatures such as sawfish, stingrays, eels, all sorts of glorious deep-sea horrors, would improve their profile.
That kind of expansion really benefitted the fanged wyverns in 5th Gen, going from the Zinogre clan to a myriad of monsties ranging from samurai tigers to visceral ten-claw nightmares. Hopefully the piscine wyverns and other underrepresented clades (carapaceon, amphibian, snake wyvern, temnoceran) get such love in the next game.
I think part of it is the fixation on elder dragons, who always have a handy helping of new members each gen. They can give you a big ol' kappa-platypus frog, sure but then immediately it's overshadowed by the Raijin/Fujin snakes, Dracula, Pacific Rim, and a crew of Qurio-infested remakes.
I agree. Piscines need a new design plan that’s set apart from the Flying Wyvern model, like how the pseudowyvern group (the Tigrex gang) are Flying Wyverns that uniquely walk on their wings.
Beotodus best Picsine.
And we already have a sawfish Piscine in the form of Anorupatisu from Frontier (although I think he’s actually a Flying Wyvern, I’m not sure).
I still stand by the idea that Gobul and Nibelsnarf could have been the secondary body type for Piscines, but I guess a secondary Leviathan body type works too.
I don't think the core body type is as much of an issue, Brutes are in a similar boat of a very simple body type (just legs, head and tail) that they've found plenty of ways to make interesting.
As a Hawaiian state aloha paradise born and raised citizen I am offended how Capcom ruined fish.
They havent ruined them however they clearly have neglected them.
I personaly do like Jyuratodus, beotodus and Old Lavasioth as well as MH3U Plesioth.
However when saying the names of 4 monsters in a serries thats been running for over a decade with multiple games includes 80% of the monsters thats a bit ridiculous.
@@draw2death421 I dont like Jyrua he is so anoyng
I am fish and am offended
@@progameryt9654 is he? I found almudron extremely annoying but jyuratodus is easy to me.
@@draw2death421 Annoying in Rise but alright in World
Those Gold and Silver "Lavasioths" are actually rivals and have an intense rivalry.
They had the gimkick in that in the only way to kill them was to kill them at the same time.
If you just focused on one of them and you got its health to 1 HP you couldn't kill it. It would flop on the ground continuously until other hit it which would heal it a bit it.
They refused to die not until the other is dead as well
Taht looks fun or really anoying
Also I never understood why Gobul is a leviathan and not a piscine wyvern. It feels like they just called it a leviathan because it was the new class introduced in gen 3.
Its attacks behave much like Royal Ludroth, what with the “running jumping flop” and “rolling on its side” attacks.
Doesn’t use a hip check or 180 spin like Plesioth
The reason it is a leviathan is because leviathans have four legs and are quadrupedal while Piscine Wyverns have two legs and a couple of fins and are Bipedal
There are some interesting lore elements behind the main three of World. Namely how Jyuratodos is considered the oldest or origin of the piscene wyverns. And the other versions we've seen are descended from it. Kinda like the ceolocanth being the most ancient living form of fish.
If the Mudfish body-plan is supposedly the oldest land form, that opens a lot of evolutionary time for there to be more varied designs. I think they could use that as a reason to introduce some more walking evolutions. Maybe reclassify Gobul as Piscine and use that inflating leviathan body plan for more things. Or have some Testucabra shaped fish, similar to Zamtrios. I think Piscine's should "steal" body shapes from other classifications and then do weird marine/deep-sea things with them. Like a modern version of the Ancient Serpent that moves like a Snake Wyvern but is a Eel/Oarfish
In fact the worst thing about Plesioth : it's that it has an actual great design ! While Lagiacrus is a sea Crocodile, Plesioth is a river Shark. From an ecology point, he's cool. Thanks to its design which is incredible, i mean, it's imposible to mix 2 badass animals like a dragon and a shark, and not saying this is sick. So yea the only real issue and wasted potential with Plesioth is its fight. And yea, no surprise, it's excruciatingly overwhelming. Since the beginning, Plesioth always felt off because, he had the exact same moves as Gravios but with less weight. Which is very weird because he has hitboxes which transcend multiverses, but unlike Gravios, it doesn't look like it belongs to him. As a freaking agile Shark-Dragon, he should have quick and erratic movements and attack like but not really (there's only the knock-over animation) In this regard, Cephadrome and Lavasioth fights look far more "fishy". At least not until 3U, where i presume, most OG's were mindblown by this HUGE STEP UP for Plesioth. And this is pretty much the last true update plesioth had. And it was kinda great. Of course the fight was still painful, but at least it felt like i was fighting a fish with sicks moves underwater. This is very sad to say, but it was the only time, since the beginning of the franchise, when i could say : "WoW he's stylish" (underwater only ) rather than "WoW he stinks" (most of the time). So i must say, if Capcom succeeded at reworking and making FREAKING YIAN GARUGA and Rajang : FUN to fight in Iceborne. Then i have hope for 6th Gen Plesioth !!!! Same thing for Cephadrome they have overall the same issue
For Lavasioth, he was still suposed to have his rework with his 5th gen version, which is almost worse than old-gen version, he goes to at least funny attacks to completely boring to fight. So for him even if we get a juryatodus-like rework in the next game i have not big hopes for him, same thing for juryatodus, he already had a supposed rework in Rise but he still boring to fight. Almudron is still the best mud monster, i prefer puking blood out of rage than dying of boringness.
Beotodus is currently the best piscine wyvern which isn't something incredible as he's still pretty forgettable, he's good looking, and has nor a painful nor a difficult fight, he's just forgettable cuz the only thing that we remember of him is : digging in the frozen ground/snow, something that many monsters do. So to make him more unique, Capcom should give him more dolphin dive attack, that's literally the only attack that i remember of him
Edit : Nevermind for Lavasioth/Juryatodus, i just remembered that we have : Rathalos and Kushala Daora who are both nightmares in World for not liking the ground while they're finally enjoyable to fight in Rise/Sunbreak. There's also Rajang, who was one of the hardest monster in Iceborne while being super nerfed in Rise and SB. So we shouldn't doubt Capcom's ability to nerf/buff and rework their monster. It's not because they failed in one game that it's done Juryatodus and Lavasioth will be looser for ever.
Imo if a monster takes too long and is difficult to fight, it poses a challenge. If it takes just a short time to kill it and is easy asf, thats boring
... it's a fish with legs
it's pike, not shark
No.
The problem is Plesioth is too fucking big. His fight was shit because where you fight em in ARE IN SMALL ASS ARENAS and it can dip in and out of water.
Reminder, it's easier to fight Plesioth in the fucking water. Just because it actually fights you and doesn't have his fucking hip check.
Plesioth's fights were long and boring because you had to pull em out the water which are a down time for people without a ranged weapon.
Make Plesioth smaller or bring back underwater maps and let Plesioth be an actual ambush predator where in dips in and out the water to strike at you like the Diablos den in World. If Plesioth was smaller it would be able to actually... Fight. Instead of just waddle around and be a giant, GIANT ass hit box. Seriously, the things bigger then Diablos. Hell, go more in on the goofiness of Plesioth and have it flop around more as an actual attack, have it spread out it's fins after it's hip check to keep the odd angles it could hit you from but you can actually see what's hitting you since they fixed the hit boxes since World. For it's tail sweep have it randomly sit then strike out with it's head or shoot water at you if your in from of it's face or just swish it's tail about if your behind it or if your on either side of him, have it spread it's fins
For Cephadrome the problem is it runs away. That's it. If it circled around you with its smaller versions then it can feel like being hunted by a pack of sharks and keeps you in the fight. Imagine a bunch of them circling you in the sand and one of their big pack moves is while circling you it makes the sand loose and cause you to start falling into the sand as a pitfall and then they come in and attack.
Literally just transplant more of a Drome monster actually coordinating it's pack in unique ways and you got more interesting fights. Have the Cephadrome be the main attacker while it tells it's minions to hit you from the sides with sand blast to box you in. It shows how much stronger the Cephadrome is and it be a more interesting fight. If it gets weak have it dive down into the sand and work with it's pack to drag you under as a last ditch move with the sand pit. We already have other monsters that can make their own environmental problems to deal with so just go with that.
Also the fact that Plesioth CAN BE LARGER AND TALLER THAN MOST ELDER DRAGONS, like how the fuck does this thing fit in most rivers, it's legs are like one and a half times the players height.
Dude, that piscine design you and the artist created is absolutely phenomenal! I really hope they add more different monsters, like this , in the new iteration.
I find it odd how only this category of monster has some of the coolest looking roman type armor. Everyone else is going viking or samurai and fish crew is taking us back
This may be a controversial change, but I'd honestly just get rid of the Piscine Wyvern category altogether and rename it as Piscine Leviathan, and move some of the more fish-like Leviathans, like Gobul and Nibelsnarf, into it. The rest of the Leviathans would then be classified into their own, new category, maybe call it Fanged Leviathans. This is just to make the category names more consistent, and because it seems like the fish-like Leviathans seem more closely related to Piscine Wyverns than they are to other Leviathans.
I do like that idea. They should tbh do this sorta stuff with Fanged Beasts aswell.
Have:
Fanged Beasts be the Monkeys.
Brute Beasts be Gammoth and bulldrome
Flying Beasts should have Paolumu
Bear Beasts should have well.. bears.
Tho id call the 'Fanged Leviathans' Serpentine Leviathans instead
Oh yeah and bird wyverns should be formed into 2 groups
Bird wyverns (everything using the flying wyvern skeleton)
And Raptor wyverns (everything using the raptor skeleton Velociprey, Great Jaggi, Kulu ya-ku, etc.)
Gobul have "Fish Wyvern" in name for Japanese And Chinese translation but it's isn't a fish(piscine) wyvern,bruh wtf
The thing is that Leviathans *are* wyverns. The Japanese name for the Leviathan class is "Sea Wyvern", so separating them into what would effectively be "Piscine Sea Wyvern" and "Fanged Sea Wyvern" would just be complicating things for a distinction that already exists. Piscine Wyvern refers to fish-like monsters with the traditional wyvern body shape, while Leviathan or Sea Wyvern refers to aquatic monsters with the quadrupedal body shape.
@Meta289 MH has major classification bloat with alot of mid generation monsters for no reason.
All non-arthropod/elder dragons/fanged beasts are wyverns.
So
Piscine can be increased by adding the fish monsters (zamtrios, pariapuria, gobul) all the stuff that are basically just. Fishes.
Fanged wyvern can absorb reptile leviathans and snake wyverns.
Paolumu and Barioth should have been Fanged beasts.
Bird wyverns kinda don't need to be their own thing but they have their own specific material for the class (bird and fey wyvern gems)
And all the crabs bugs and spiders can all be condensed into a single arthropod class if they don't wanna expand it.
Ahtal and Seltas both use the Nerscylla skeleton.
And pretty sure the nerscylla skeleton is a modified crab skeleton.
mmmh nah. I can't imagine this going well. you would delete a part of monster hunters history with Pisces being in the very first monster hunter and appearing again and again in the following titles, getting more and more members to the family as the series goes. See, the longer we wait, the bigger the Pisces family grows, getting more and more variety as the series goes on, I wouldn't be surprised if they'd introduced a new Piscene in MH6 alongside bringing back a new and reworked Plesioth maybe.
Plesioth is likely mostly based on the Freshwater Butterflyfish, it glides in the air, it hangs out at the top of the water and shares jaw morphology, it has the same silhouette from the top when swinging, and neither of them have any venom.
I personally think it would be cool if they added some large piscine wyverns that use the delex body type. PIscine wyverns that are more fish with a wyvern/dragon head. They wouldn't just have to be in the desert as long as there is something that they can swim through like water, lava, sand, mud, or snow they could live pretty much anywhere.
Why are piscine wyverns so bland ??
let me answer you: lack of underwater combat
As you said, the sea has the biggest number of diverse animals, so imagine what we could see if Underwater became as normal as terrestrial areas as for fighting monsters
I know it would take a lot of time to implement, I don't care, take 8 years to make a game, I'll wait
If I had to choose between not having Piscene Wyverns or making them 'better' with the return of underwater combat, I'd happily throw them into the deep fryer.
Fun fact jyuratodus was originally supposed to be an underwater fight but because underwater combat was scrapped for world they ended up having to change his fight to be more land based
now as to why they scrapped underwater combat I have no idea but it was originally planned for world
I like Jyuratodus and its perhaps my favourtite Pisicine Wyvern in that I like its ecological niche, but design is admittedly dissapointing. It's evident to see its was likely a last minute creation in a sense and was done in a bind knowing some of the backstory of World's development.
Jyuratodus is actually the replacement for Lagiacrus after they couldn't get Leviathan rigs to work properly in World's engine. The Wildspire was supposed to be more marshy and swamp-like and was to be the domain of Lagiacrus.
So maybe due to a lack of time and redesigning the area they dug up the Lavasioth design and gave it a new gimmick.
If Jyuratodus could be redesigned I would like its body was somewhat flatter and bit broader with a head similar to a lung fish or catfish with the same set of teeth it has now with the catfish whiskers as well. These could help it guide its way in its murky habitats on account that it would have bad eyesight
I do like Piscine wyverns. To be exact i like Jyuratodus and Beotodus.
There are hundreds of different unique fishspecies like the barrel eye, whale shark, orca, goblin shark, lion fish, etc.
I do not understand why they wont use them? Most are given to elder dragons or leviathans.
I agree with you overall and definitely think that the Coral Highlands should definitely have had at least a couple of Piscene Wyverns to really nail that concept of it being a marine biome out of water.
I once thought of an idea for a Piscene based on a Ribbon Eel that would use a very long, serpentine neck and tail to try to ambush prey from the safety of rock crevices. It would still be bipedal like your typical wyverns but holds its neck up in such a way that it looks like a real dinosaur ( such as Ceolophysis ). The fight would be somewhere between a Khezu and a Raptor Wyvern as a lower tier threat in the Highlands.
Volicthyos sounds like a really neat fight, at least conceptually and as a hammer main. Definitely drives home just how many marine inspirations the MonHun team could pull from.
As an aside, I actually really enjoyed fighting Plesioth in one game... MH3U, my first MonHun. It was thrilling to chase the bastard onto his home turf after he'd decided things weren't going well for him, and I didn't really get all the hate for it and kinda thought it was just a meme? The moment chasing it into the water stopped being a thing I could do, I understood the contempt surrounding the monster immediately. I feel like being able to fight piscine wyverns in their element again could really add to the experience, but... that of course means water combat as a whole would have to come back. I personally really enjoyed it and was sad to see it go, but I understand that's a pretty unpopular opinion... XD;
Volichthyos looks fantastic! Kudos to Alex to that design, they knocked it out of the park! I don't think there's anything better to add to volichthyos aside from lore! So let's try this!
Volichthyos was a monster that originally inhabited the east coast of the old world. Like you said, it's a small monster specialist, an ambush predator that feeds on small monsters by lunging at them with quick bursts of speed. It defends itself from larger predators like Lagiacrus and Plesioth by flashing its huge wings as a threat display, to warn of the toxicity of its spines.
Volichthyos reproduce through the "overwhelming numbers" strategy, meaning that they lay so many eggs that, inevitably, at least one will reach adulthood. However, this has caused a bit of a problem on the west coast of the Old World and the coasts of the New World. Volichthyos eggs will stick and attach to whatever they touch first in order to keep them anchored. The eggs are very hardy, and can survive rapid changes in temperature quite well. This means that they can attach to ships and stay dormant until they reach better climates to hatch. This means they can accidentally be brought along by ships to new areas, where the natives are not adapted to them.
The Guild knows about this and takes measures to prevent the spread of Volichthyos by instating a policy for ships to regularly check and scrub their hulls to prevent hitch hikers. But this doesn't always work out for them... Occasionally, Volichthyos are sighted in areas they are not native to. When this happens, the Guild immediately sends out a missive for all hunters in the area to start hunting all Volichthyos in the region. Fortunately, these problems have been quelled before they could begin. But it's only a matter of time...
This is, of course, inspired by the real life invasion of the Atlantic by the Lion Fish! Let me know how I did Ginge!
This is great. It feels very monster hunter
Maybe cause I only know World to Sunbreak but I like the existance of the Piscines they have a cool anatomy as fish convergent to the wyverns
I actually want a High/G-rank Piscine Wyvern, I'm of the idea that we need more higher threat-level monsters that aren't just *"Another 11th hour Flying Wyvern"*.
That's why I love monsters like Yian Garuga and Goss Harag, take monsters from mostly-known low-level monster types and make a challenging creature out of them!
I know Yian Garuga is a winged monster, *BUT* it's a BirdWyvern, a usually low-level creature, and also extra dangerous despite not being bigger in size than your usual Rathian.
@@peridrawland5955 Rathian can get pretty large.
that aside, Yian Garuga is potentially one of the most intelligent non-Elder Dragon monsters in all of the series.
I like the lionfish/pufferfish hybrid concept! I think for its fight, it should have 2 stages of inflation.
Stage 1 where it has some gas and can jump around the hunter like a Chameleos since it's basically a balloon.
Stage 2 where it's pretty much a Paolumu in terms of movement.
Since it relies on air to inflate, it has a sensitive gas bladder that forcefully expels stored air if the monster is flinched 3 times and cannot inflate to stage 2 if the monster has a broken chest.
It'd also be naturally colored to blend into its environment to avoid being easily spotted by predators like Pink Rathians or Legianas, regularly getting into fights with Anjanaths & Odogarons & actively competing with Paolumus for turf.
Frontier has an endgame High/Goushu Rank system called Hardcore or just HC. This gave you the ability to hunt stronger versions of monsters for special parts. Usually this would result in the monster getting a visual change such as Hardcore Tigrex having slightly larger ear-crests and its limbs featuring more blue pigmentation. In addition to this, they'd usually get a moveset overhaul or updated AI, and while some of them were pretty poorly designed (Hardcore Yian Kut-ku), others would get a really unique and creative fight that would make your approach to fighting any given monster completely different from the original. The reason I'm saying this is because of HC Cephadrome, which has currently skyrocketed up to being my favorite piscine wyvern of the lot. They lessened the downtime of the hunt by making sure he doesn't stay underground very long, only really doing so as part of a couple specific attacks. His fight is much more engaging, and he even uses the other Cephalos around him to perform team attacks, in a similar vein to Great Izuchi.
TL;DR, Frontier's Hardcore Cephadrome is proof to me that it's entirely possible to make piscine wyverns that don't suck.
I like your idea of piscine wyverns and honestly as someone who’s MR999 in MHRS I feel juratodis was the most underwhelming fight and even great itzuchi feels more engaging despite it being the 1st large monster you fight
Snake Wyvern classification has the same issue, but I think both should be used more loosely. The ancient Piscine Wyvern in the art books should be used as a basis, Piscine's could be long and eel like, they could be manta ray shaped, theres just so many options and since its a classification separate from Flying (which seems to be reptilian focused, or at least Monster Hunter's reptile evolving into mammal take) But they should really use the fact that fish aren't related to reptiles to make weirder and varied designs.
Currently starting MH3U and actually liking Gobul a little more than I did back when I played vanilla Tri.
Even though in terms of body mechanics it's a Leviathan, the way they combined an anglerfish, porcupine fish, frogfish, flounder, and others into a pretty convincing MH water monster deserves at least some props.
If they don't bring back underwater combat, maybe a mudskipper or lungfish Piscine that can operate out of water would work; fish deserve another chance.
I have a bunch of concepts for an MH fan game which is primarily new fan monsters. In that game, I have 1 piscine wyvern, which was provided to me by a friend who had an aquatic-oriented fan game concept (that monster is also on the fence for just getting replaced). At the same time, I have 2 amphibians, 5 leviathans (3 being on the aquatic side), and three small-monster fish, with only three on that list being returning (Pokaradon, Nibelsnarf, and Zamtrios). The issue, like you mentioned, is that all the other classes are taking away the good aquatic/fishy designs. Although I feel like how enjoyable fights are matters more in this context as designs like Plesi and Beotodus aren’t bad, they’re just attached to less captivating fights (although I don’t actually mind either of them).
I kinda liked Lavasioth in MHFU but damn they made him annoying when they added the Agnaktor mechanic while making it harder to soften the hardened Lava! I love the idea that you have to use sling ammo to heat it up but i felt like it took to many of them to do so and at that time it would already go back to lava
The silver and gold "lavasioth" actually are a fantastic fight! They compliment eachother very well and their attacks are very silly but deadly. Fighting them with my husband was one of my favorite experiences with Frontier. At least they are FAR better than supremacy Teostra and Pariapuria which they feature alongside. Honestly my favorite supremacy-strength monsters.
"Lets complain about fish" was something i did not expect to hear from you.
I personally like Jyuratodus, Beotodus, Cephadrome, and Delex. I knew of Lavasioth before Jyuratodus, and I like mud fish more just because it's more believable to me and we needed another mud beasty. I strongly dislike Plesioth and not because of its hit boxes but because I don't like that they're so wyvern-like. Those wing-like fins would serve no purpose other than flying out of the water or display. But fishy monsters that swim in mud or sand is cool to me. I just wish they were more fleshed out in their abilities.
Jyuratodus in rise is kind of fun imo
Personally, if they did more with Piscene Wyverns, I would say they would be great. They possess that mindless “you fit in my mouth and are also moving- so I eat you” feel.
They also tend to display more erratic and unpredictable movements, that can often catch even the most seasoned hunter off-guard. While they do stand as a great “build-up to real wyvern“ challenge-
It would be great to see them implemented with the further various morphologies. The ocean is full of insane fish.
Imagine a Moray Eel with, idk, centipede like legs so that it can move like an eel on land. Add some bells and whistles, and boom.
I think a part of the issue is Leviathans kinda showing up and stealing the spotlight (and the ideas) like why are Gobul and Nibelsnarf Leviathans when they could both fit as Piscine
I think the Piscine wyvern class needs a Deviljho tier monster to show off their full potential. Something threatening, invasive, and designed to strike fear into the hunters. A lionfish would actually be a great inspiration for this.
... Actually, it's kinda weird that Gobul aren't piscine wyverns. They're basically anglerfish attached to a vacuum.
For Jyura it would've been nice to see it's seedlings latch onto you or other monsters like Giginox as it was born more like a virus than a fullfletched fish.
What Lavasioth needs is just some more attacks like Basarios or Magmadron. Basarios are able to make the whole area it's playground and can get from one side to the other quicker than most people think. It would've also been cool to see it have a thicker cold lavaskin that can bounce as many attacks like Basarios before it's body odor attacks. Meanwhile it could've been given a more spy-like lava-diving like Magmadron, in that way it would've been more interesting than jumping from 1 pool into the other and just swaying around 3 lava puddles in a random place.
Problem? All the cool concepts are given or stolen by leviathan's/elder dragons
Aruganosu goruganosu/narwa and Inushi
Jjuratodus/Almudron
Lavasioth/ Agnaktor
Beotodus/ Glacial agnaktor
The only ones that haven't been ripped off so shamelessly are plesioth and the hammerhead thing
Plesioth has htperspace god tackle of death doom destruction snd world ending power
Piscine wyvern only work with underwater combat not puddle fight
I admit I like the general design of the piscine wyverns (jyuratodus is a giant walking coelacanth and Beotodus is frankly a cooler version of that). I’d be lying if I didn’t say Jyratodus did help further sell me on Monster Hunter when I first jumped on board with World since I had fallen in love with the series visually due to the prehistoric influences. But outside of Beotodus who I do genuinely love, the rest are sadly just forgettable and I definitely understand why they come across as either uninteresting or just bad (yes I’m well aware of the infamous Plesioth). Lavasioth’s armor is cool, but I didn’t particularly like fighting him after the first couple times. It’s also pretty depressing that Jyuratodus is the only piscine in Rise and he is the worst monster in the game, or at least bottom 5 for me (not in World, Leshen and Behemoth are frankly way worse to me frankly). Cephadrome I do kinda like as well, but Namielle way outdid him with its more wild design. Long story short the piscines have a huge amount of potential but they’re just not utilized effectively enough. Also I really don’t like that they’re “wyverns” when they’re clearly just fish, not reptiles.
I think they could do alot with an angler fish wyvern in a spooky area like the rotten vale
Piscine wyverns are fish that convergently evolved the wyvern bodyplan
the problem with piscine wyverns? we dont get to fight them underwater
Imagine if MH6 had underwater combat and introduced some Piscine Wyverns which could ONLY be fought underwater (think Epioth, but really big and angry). Suddenly, Capcom would be free to massively increase the variety in body shapes and implement all kinds of fun, quirky elemental sea life. If we got a really cool Piscine Wyvern as our next flagship, even an amphibious one, I bet people would stop complaining about their design as a class.
So like third gen again?
I had the same thought watching this video though. Reintroducing water combat would open up so many possibilities for unique monster designs that wouldn't be possible with only land-based combat. We could have piscine wyverns and not have to factor in legs lmao. Ceadeus is a great example of that, as its design is literally impossible to use for a land-based monster.
Plus we'd get Lagiacrus back. And Gobul. Gobul is underrated imo.
My favorite piscine is beotudus the others are kinda mid or ok
GHC Red Lavasioth doesn't suck and i will defend it with my life
In my opinion, Plesioth atleast has the best design of them.
I disagree. They are perfect monster to piscine me off
These types of wyverns are Piscine me off
I agree, most Piscine Wyverns in monster hunter look meh. I hope in the next Monster Hunter game they introduce more Piscine Wyverns with a distinct look like the lionfish design in this video.
It's a shame Picine wyverns have such a massive amount of potential to make cool monsters and the your lion fish wyvern even proves that (that lion fish was completely awesome btw) , they have the base concept for a fun fight down as off rise now they just need to flesh them out as a class,
Also he's my opinion on the picine wyverns
Cephadrome gives me ptsd from his fight in FU, but I acutaly think he has a alright design and has to potential to be a cool take on a sand shark
Plesioth is a meme and I love it and I hope it will return with a improved fight, gen 1/2 sucked tho
Lavisioth is so meh, there are better lava monsters
Jyuratodus acutaly has a decent fight is rise but design wise is also meh, I thought he had the potential to be a fun take on like a muddy bullshark
Beotodus is pretty neet and I like the shark horn it has going
jyuratodus was introduced in rise's high rank because they reworked him to have a better fight
doesn't make him any less forgettable :/
Damn if Jyuratodus's fight in Rise is considered 'better' then I'd hate to see how big of a dumpster fire it was in World
@@ripleyandweeds1288 it was less of a dumpster fire and more of a nothing fight
there just wasn't any substance to it
RIP PNGPeakGinge :(
Poor dewi
Plesioth for MH6
I thought the lantern fish in Tri was pretty neat. Unfortunately everyone but me seemed to hate underwater combat, so it's unlikely we will ever see him again.
Gobul isn't a piscine wyvern, it's a leviathan like Nibelsnarf
Gobul is a leviathan
@@bri1085 Gobul is a good reason for them to expand the usage of the Piscine Wyvern classification. I imagine like real life fish, that the Piscine evolutionary tree is crazy diverse and I see no reason for it to not have overlap or mirroring the terrestrial Wyvern trees. Whose to say Gobul is more related to Lagiacrus than it is Plesioth? Just because it shares a body plan in universe and a skeletal rigging IRL? If they brought back Gobul and used the fact that it fights more like Modern Jyuratodus than say Ludroth/MItsuzune as a reason to reclassify it as a Piscine Wyvern, all the better.
@@DanielisAwesome52 in all honesty none of the monster groups in gen 3 apart from the bears fight alike. Maybe Lagi and Ludro, leviathans have very diverse fights. Agnaktor and Lagicrus and Gobul are three completely different fights, and Mizu is completely different from them as well. Gen 3 just happened to have properly thought out their monster classes. Brute Wyverns were also very diverse in gen 3.
Piscine Wyverns just weren't well thought out when they were introduced, maybe down the line they might figure it out. But I don't think the answer is shifting Gobul, and by extension Nibelsnarf really solves that. The fights already borrow a bit from piscine Wyverns with the burrowing. And gobul is just a monster that's trapped with underwater combat, even more than Lagicrus.
@@bri1085 I don't agree Gobul is trapped underwater, give him a speed boost on land/surface water and he fights virtually the same. (I personally think people romanticize how "different" underwater combat made things)
However I did read up on Gobul a little, and I don't think they would change him to a Piscine. Turns out he breathes air and doesn't have gills. So Taxonomically he probably is a Leviathan and not a Fish.
I do think though, that using his gimmick and Angler/Puffer Fish design could be used for a very different Piscine Wyvern design, maybe even instead the video's Lion Fish idea could just use some of his tactics like burying itself and puffing up under a hunter.
I think Piscines need to diversify body types, and having convergent skeletons with Leviathan/Fanged Wyverns/Snake Wyverns would be a great way to improve the overall classification. I think the reason they are so lame atm is that they all use the same body-type, even Plesioth isn't much different despite its wings. Whereas IRL fish have crazy different body shapes and speciation.
So a four leg-walking Fish that puffs up, swims "underground" like modern day Mud/Water monster do would be a great way to break the mold. Same with introducing an Eel monster that moves like Almudron or Najarala.
This might be a silly idea for Capcom to make
But why not they make this kind of Piscine wyvern that can attack with its fins
I have mine made in legos
Combination with...
Blue Shark, fins
Sea Robin, false legs under the fins
Stone Fish, dorsal fin
And Thresher Shark, tail
I still think the Sea Robin would be a good choice
Coral highlands would’ve a great place for creepy flying piscine wyverns I also am sad namielle wasn’t a base game elder dragon. It’s so cool to me especially its water slime gimmick that could’ve been given to piscine wyverns
I think Delex’s design is interesting. I’d like to see a Great Delex or something similar one day.
Volicthyos is a really cool concept! Alex did a fantastic job refining your early concept.
I'm the odd one and like cephy sand shark, and well fish lava fish in gen 4 was way better then world. I like mud and ice fish so I'm hoping for something better more improvements
I know this video is 9 months old but you really missed the mark. I don't think your DIY design is bad, but to complain "they're all fish" and then proceed to indeed make one that's certainly not far off from what already exists kind of defeats the core of the argument.
Piscine might mean of; or related to fish but CAPCOM also put Diablos and Tigrex in a class called "Flying Wyverns" despite only being winged.
Piscine Wyverns could encompass all things nautical, and take inspiration from real marine life outside of just "fish".
Think of more crustaceans, cephalopods, mantas, invertebrates, turtles or even unique mammals like the manatee.
There's no reason why we couldn't go further beyond what we've seen in the piscine classification, and though I agree it's been the most underwhelming and boring category thus far- I feel that adding "just another fish" in your DIY took away from that point in the video.
I think Volycthyos is a spectacular monster. I've seen it before and never knew anything besides its design and it's amazing. For my own Piscene Wyvern, I am in love with a mudskipper that lives in a mangrove mudflats with a quadrupedal build. Its fight would be made up of bites, tail slaps, shooting mud and body slams. It can also fight underwater
its hard to find a good pliacines when they havent done under water combat since 3 having more different kinds of fish and not repeating the whole swimming underground idea would help i remember the angler puffer in 3 and i just thought that was a pretty great idea
I am actually just disappointed that Jyuratodus and Lavasioth fights suck. I'm actually just alright with their design, but the only problem I have is that their fight is barely engaging, especially Lavasioth. It just feels like a slog if anything. I hope the next installment's piscine wyverns have a little more variety in their moveset and probably gimmicks.
cephalos : horrible
cephadrome : horrible
plesioth : horrible
green plesioth : damn horrible
lavasioth : horrible
delex : let me goddamn carve
mh3u plesioth : actually a bit fun
jyuratodus : obnoxious
gajau : give me your goddamn steel whiskers
beotodus : less obnoxious than jyura, horrible
I feel like quadrupedal is the way, real short legs like a crocodile or a spinosaurus over long legs and wings
The coral highlands area could have introduced a type of aerial piscine wyvern, maybe have it be sail fish themed or maybe a type of parrotfish that fed on the coral. Hell, they could have LITERALLY made it a parrotfish wyvern, using the pukei pukei skeleton, hell I would have PREFERRED that over pukei pukei,
Name: Morinoda-Ibā
English title: Diver of the Forest
Species: Piscine Wyvern
Utilizable Elements and Ailments:
Elements: Water
Ailments: Bleed
Weaknesses:
Elements: Ice and Fire (Fire removes leaf armor)
Ailments: Blast (blast removes leaf armor) and Poison
Breakable areas: Anywhere where the iron-cartilage is found, and the average best weapon to break them are blunt and piercing weapons (You cannot sever the tail)
Resistances:
Elements: Water and Thunder
Ailments: Stun and Sleep
Rank: High Rank and above.
Appearance: Morinoda-Ibā is a thinner bipedal Piscine Wyvern with green sparkling scales and a more narrow triangular head shape. Morinoda-Iba also possesses various blade-like "cartilage" that protrudes from its skin, and has a cresent blade on its tail. Morinoda-Iba eats iron deposits to get these iron consistent cartilage. The blades will shine with small red lines going threw the blades, which represents that the monster is pumping blood and heat into its blades, this only happens when the monster is enraged.
Mechanics: Morinoda-Ibā leaps up to the trees or climbs up walls to reach them. Then it "swims" (Which is more of a mixture of slithering and swimming), across branches and leaves, collecting them on its scales, which creates a leaf armor of sorts. This "swimming" also causes the branches to be sliced by the blades which make them fall on opponents. It will peek its head out of the trees to shoot out swallowed up leaves, which are a decently strong ranged attack. You can shoot flash bombs to speed the process of it coming out of the trees, this will also make it flail around. Eventually it will slam down to hit you (Keep in mind this does a lot of damage), then it will try to lunge around trying to cut you to bits. The leaf armor gives a small extra resistance bonus to any opposing attacks.
Enemies: Mainly any monster that is in its territory, or even near it.
Areas which it is found: Ancient forest, where its den can be found in the Rathian area, and the Wildspire Waste, where its den can be found in the forest area.
Subspecies: Shokkā Morinoda-Ibā is a subspecies of normal Morinoda-Ibā that paralyzes you with its blades, which has fused with a special electricity conductor made in the body. Sadly it loses the water Element. It can infuse the branches it cuts with the electricity by just cutting them. It has slightly yellow blades, which glow when it is enraged, this means that they get a Thunder element along with the normal paralysis Ailment. This variant gets a resistance to paralysis and thunder, are now are a bit weak against water. This subspecies is found in the Hoarfrost Reach, where its den is found near the Beotodus den, Ancient Forest, and the Wildspire Waste, where its den is found in the normal areas. Its Rank is. Master rank.
Rate this Piscine Wyvern 1/10, feel free to draw this in your image
Also, why are they so afraid of designing bosses(by that I mean particularly tough mons like Espinas, Seregios, Aknator, Black Diablos) should have group mechanics like the Izuchi, as in summoning their immature variants or something. I mean, even mons like Royal Ludroth only does that rarely
But I really want is mayhaps something like a buffing effect, annoying stuff like debuffs(like Baggi's sleepy spits) combined with stuff like combination attack(like how Great Izuchi performs them)
The major mon(parent, alpha, boss, senior) can even do stuff like increasing their followers with increased DEF or elemental resistances between several instances, or outright have their summoned followers have increased health and flinch/stun resist
They need to be underwater THATS THE PROBLEM LMAO😂 oh by the way I made this before watching the video because I saw the title and said to myself “oh I know why 😃” and made it so If he says this in the vid than I PREDICTED THE FUTURE WOOOO
One problem I have is the Piscines generally lack a Lure Part. That thing that a hunter looks at and goes "Yeah I wanna hit that." Glavenus' head and heated tail, Gammoth's trunk, all of Astalos, Mizutsune's fins when he angers, Gore Magala's feelers, Nibelsnarf's underbelly, gills, and uvula, Duramburos' tailcase, Zinogre's head. I can keep going, but the general gist is that most monsters have something that stays in a hittable range a lot of the time and looks like it can break/would hurt if you hit it a bunch. As a category, the piscine family doesn't really hit that mark, in both form and function. Design-wise, as the video points out, they're a tube with legs, and while the presence of fins that tear or scarred hide is an okay indicator for breaking, nothing on any of them really shouts "HERE! HIT HERE!" Just "blunts hit head, sharps... Do whatever I guess." And that's when the mechanics let you, since standing out of water with stamina generally hoists any target beyond their legs out of the reach of several attacks, while being submerged makes their hotboxes an absolute nightmare to reliably hit. Insult to injury is that breakable legs to encourage tripping (to actually hit anything else) is almost unseen, and takes most of their health to achieve in the rare instances it's present. Exhausting them is usually a viable strat, provided you can land enough initial hits to the head to drain them. Also, personal opinion but Jyuratodus' mud armor is a great mechanic except for how often and quickly he can replenish it. Barroth is a way better balance with how few places on his maps he can actually recover his mud at, and how he's easily hittable to interrupt him during it to get more time to actually break his parts. I always feel like I spend 80% of the hunt scraping mud off Jyura one part at a time only to get one actual break and kill him trying to get a second.
TL;DR Capcom, give fish shorter legs and stupider looking heads or some weird fish part I can cut off. There's lots of weird fish with weird parts, pick some and slap em together. Make a quadrupedal one, like Zamtrios
The did an Oopsie(multiple oopsies actually) the Piscine wyverns aren't even fish, they're basically funky amphibians. Some like Gobul and Nibelsnarf are great because their gimmick.
Speaking of amphibians, they should totally make more amphibious(like literally frogs, toads, salamanders, cecilians) mons for us to fight!
Also, immature Tetsucabra is so cuuute
I’m fine with Plesi and the Lavas (except for Cephadrome and Juri because they’re just not good), but man having more interesting fish monsters would be great. My favorite group are the Carapaceons because they’re just really funny to me and Plesi is really funny and I like that but the fights just suck. The most fun I had fighting one was in 3U during a underwater hunt. It was so much fun, but take away the underwater hunts and it becomes boring again. They’re just so bland. The group really needs a rework and a couple monsters that really make them pop.
my concept for a piscene wyvern is a blobfish/gulper eel that is chunky but with a bigass mouth that has a massive hitbox but lots of endlag and can get stuck. Most of the monster is exteremly tough, but the tail and the underside of the mouth are soft and can be attacked by exploiting endlag, and also helped by the fact that the monster is not very long. After dealing enough damage to that the rest of the monster will crack and become all flabby, then you will be able to hit it normally for a bit until it submerges itself into water to heal its shell. Also takes some inspiration from prince rupert's drop (a piece of glass that is near indestructible but when you break its tail the entire thing shatters)
Bite the bullet... ask for underwater combat to return 😈
I don't care how many people hated it, but that's the best way to introduce biodiversity and adjust piscine wyverns. They would not need legs, so they'd be far more believable and work to create a fully-realized ecosystem... after all, Ceadeus would be at the top of SOME kind of food chain that doesn't just include Plesioths and Ludroths, right? So fuck the haters and lean in.
Since newer games have been making things so much easier, I don't see why there couldn't at least be an _option_ for underwater combat that not everyone needs to engage in. Like, if you want to hit up a chain of islands and do some aquatic hunting, give us the opportunity. If land-based hunters can't deal, they can stay on land. Plenty of games have content people miss out on due to difficulty, so just consider underwater hunting like that. MH has MORE than enough land-based monsters and continues to make more, so give us super-dedicated hunters a snack.
I've only been playing since World but I think the issue has less to do with monster design and more to do with gameplay. I've dabbled in game design a little bit, so I'm no expert but a lot of my thoughts come from that sort of view. A lot of monster hunter gameplay involves finding the openings to get damage in, and a lot of piscine wyvern gameplay involves sitting around and waiting for it to surface. Gameplay wise, this leaves some emptier moments in the fight where instead of anything happening, I'm literally just waiting for SOMETHING.
I think they could go a long way to fix this by just expanding where they pull design ideas from. Give me more deep sea horrors, like leviathans and krakens or giant eels and megalodons. Have leviathans be massively long, like surround a small zone long, but have most of the body stay underground, only surfacing for attacks. Have Krakens constantly attempting grapples and restricting movement. Have Eels be fast and evasive. Really evoke the sea depths feeling the class can have.
Jyuratodos and lavisioth are just beeg fish. I know the WiiU monster hunter had underwater combat, and that didnt exaclty go swimingly so maybe its just a matter of time before the MH team gives the piscene wyverns some design respect?
(S)hitbox of old made piscines utter shit to fight. This before the amount of time wasting shenanigans at that.
GU plesi & volganos/ lavasioth were arguably fine imo, if a bit bland since they have VERY limited playspace.
Honestly wish they play around with piscines more, leaning towards stuffs like Gobul, etc. They arguably have the most potential in variety and yet we got friggin bounce city bushitty volganos in world....
Underwater wasn't even that bad, if it even was bad at all tbh. That plus how much verticality is emphasized in rise/ 5th gen in general, imagine if cephalos/ cephadrome gets a glow up where we can chase them down an opening and yoink them out to our playspace than chasing the bloody thing swimming in semi circles around an open sandfield.
Honestly weirded out that Capcom puts more chips in all elder dragons having novas and hp gating spectacle shenanigans than coming up with ways to reinvent unique monsters like piscines, gobul, peco, etc.
i do LIKE Piscines, they do deserve to exist, the issue is that they are either too weak (Beotodus), too limited in location (Jyratodus) or too fucking ANNOYING (Lavasioth)
they COULD be good, they just need to work more on mobility i feel, like when they are swimming around i feel is when they are at their best
The Lionfish idea is amazing, i sort of whish this was real in World, imagine a lionfish paralysing things in the coral highlands with all it's melee attacks, with part breaks removing that parts status ailments
i think its bland cuz of the fish wyvern is you know they fish... what fish need? is water.. welp water combat is still only on 3 soo... thats why its lacking maybe in future game when water combat return but we'll see.. gobul and nebul i think this 2 is suppose to be piscine but welp i dont know XD
I think the problem with piscine wyverns is the concept itself. To be one:
1 It must swim; Not only it has to be stronguer swiming than "in land",you also have to give it something to swimg (sand, snow, lava, water, mud...)
2 Its desing must be fish like, but with strong legs. For it, campcom has desided the fish wyverns have legs only for stand up (i dont remember one runing)
3 it has to have a wyvern body, wing and legs, and it must be able to stand out the swiming mode
So, they need a better concept. Beatodus is one of the best cause he has some unique attacks and high movility without being anoying. So they may need more "roles"
1 The low tier, they has crapy attacks and movility, they are easy, but anoying (lavasiot hardening or going ito lava)
2 The high tier, they have strong attacks focused in 2 variants: specialiced in rangue/ special attacks (a plesiot rework?) or focused in high movility on swiming (like beatodus)
3 More skeletons variety. Maybe a new species that has a siren pose more than a strong legged one. For instance, imagine this 13:38 without the legs, walking with the arms; Or maybe it has some tentacles or fins instead of those legs that let him to do surprise jumps... I really think the siren tipe would give much better piscine wyvern desings.
Piscine Wyverns were supposed to be big things with swimming as a mechanic. Just like MH3U and the huge aquatic elder dragon and the Lagiacrus. Without an amphibious assault mechanism you're essentially cutting half of what a piscine wyvern can be, thusly removing any interesting aspect of their dual natures and essentially making them 'weaker' land monsters. This weakness is also very apparent when you fight them as their newer moves are forced to be hamstrung to fit a terrestrial environment, even if they're legitimately just swimming in the floor at times.
I doubt, unless Capcom brings back aquatic environments, will the piscine wyvern ever recover. They will most likely be regulated to early level monsters as a token inclusion at that rate.
Its kinda funny; Leviathans are basically the better version of Piscine wyverns. They have way more variety; cooler designs and gear, and MUCH better fights.
Its sad that we have a lot of cool fish in the real world; but MH has had a problem of being stuck with the same 2-legged fish Rath body plan for generations lol
As a Hammer bro I like them, it's fun to bonk them in the head but that's all they've got going for them, boring movests, no fun parts to break or tails to cut...
I'd make a hydra, with a head cutting mechanic, maybe 2 tails... An octopus/squid wyvern could be cool too.
I only recently got MHW, but for some reason the moment I even saw plesioth (or jyratod-something? I don’t know these creatures names lmao) I hated it, and therefor didn’t like the incoming fight. I still haven’t gone out of my way to fight another one. Even when I saw lavasioth, it was only to check off ‘sight all elder recess creatures.’ Once I could, I left it.
I think I had known these two piscine wyverns were hated beforehand, I can’t remember from where, but I think that played a big role in my opinion of it.
I have to disagree with most of the things I've heard in the video. Especially on some points, namely the statement about fish wyverns representing "deep sea" more than leviathans, and the fact they should've looked better (which is not an argument but an oppinion).
First, pretty much everywhere, and since tales of leviathans exist, they have been portrayed as monstruous deep sea creatures that often dwell in the abyss, deep below surface and only come up when they hunt a prey. Fishes can be found in *any* depth of water. Makes more sense to me that leviathans would represent deep sea, while piscine wyverns represent river, mud, or any other shallow water creatures. So to me, it sounds completely irrationnal.
Secondly, about the beauty and overall looks of those monsters, not every creature in the world looks good or "refined". There IS bland things out there, and fishes are no exception. The fact they decided to take a couple bland fishes as a base for some of their monsters is actually smart and better thought out than the contrary. It gives a sense of normality and consistency to the world of MH, and makes it look more natural to the players.
About your take on the "Volicthyos" as you named it, it does sound like a good concept, BUT for a game in which water combats are a thing, and not just a meme. Don't get me wrong, I loved water combats in Tri and 3 Ultimate, even tho it was clunky and stuff, but many people didn't, and I must agree that while I did like it, it'd be realy nice if it was completely reworked before its next appearanceI'd absolutely love to see it appear in the next MH game. I don't see a good way to implement that "black mist" thing unless, once again, under water. For the spikes getting lodged in the players, sound like a good idea to me. Punishing players for attacking from a specific angle tho, I'm realy not a fan. The reason for this is that hunters need to break monster parts in order to improve their loot which would be an absolute nightmare, which would in turn result in an atrocious farm for the monster's equipment set. It would also force melee players to hit parts that are either unpractical or suboptimal for their equipped weapon or get punished (being punished for hitting the parts your weapon is good against is kinda stupid), and in multiplayer, it would force players to bunch up around the same spot, making them hit each other, meaning they'll stagger their own allies unless they sacrificed a gem slot. Also pretty much any attack or movement the monster does could make you hit a spikey spot instead of an open one. Also wider attacks like the hammer's whirlwnd or pretty much the entire hunting horn's moveset could make you hit spikes even tho you're trying to focus the openings. Both scenarios would feel unfair, and would be pretty frustrating and annoying to say the least. So yeah, pretty good concept if you're a seasoned gunbow, gunlance, bow or lance user, but pretty much no other weapon type would have a great time fighting this. Especially short range weapons like the dual daggers or the sword and shield, likely not able to hit anything but one or two parts of the monster at best (or the entire body if flying dual dagger style but that would ALSO punish you) which the monster could end up covering for who knows how long. Maybe the entire fight ? Maybe only a short moment ?
If the "orient its spikes in a particuliar direction" phase lasts for only a couple seconds, it's perfectly fine, but if it's as long as the electric charge on Zinogres, or even half as long ? Let me just *never* fight this thing and hope it finds a place as the least hunted monster ever in the entire MH history.
Imo, the only way to make them even remotely interesting and unique at this point is to full-on retconn them into having no legs. Making them full fish would immediately make them infinitely more unique fights and monsters, especially with how Rise and World have handled shallow water. Lavasioth is a given seeing how it moves through solid rock, and Jyuratodus being a living fossil should be the only exception and keep the legs.
The entire design just doesn't work and even the (awesome) concept you showed in the video suffers from it. The legs look goofy under any circumstance and the wings just make it look more like a flying wyvern.
It's weird, as a kid I used to love hunting Cephadrome, I have NO idea why. Also, Namielle is the best ocean-based monster, but it's an elder dragon. We just need more like Namielle in terms of unique designs. How about a full on whale that uses directed sonic attacks to deal heat damage, which is a real thing. Or some kind of acid-spitter that reduces weapon sharpness super rapidly.
We could have:
An electric eel wyvern mixed with a Lionfish. It could make electric traps with it's fallen spines, that and/or make slimey trails that can trip you and make you fall in a electric slime puddle.
A Dunkloustleus wyvern with steaming water beams. Maybe it could be a deviljho tier monster, they can make it shoot water beams into the ground with so much force that the beam comes out of the floor like a geiser.
Two Angler Fish wyverns, the small one can be the male that attaches itself to the larger female, we could give it poison or paralisis breath. The larger female could either flash it's prey with it's lure, or it could show a new monster attack, a "hypno" state, the light makes you walk towards it before you get bitten.
These are some ideas that I had for some time 😅.
Well in most cases monsters will be a base for all other monsters of its ilk slightly branch off from.
One fish looks and feels like another fish.
I don't like palette swaps, and minor adjustments to make it a different thing.
That fish would be interesting to see in a MH game.
And damn I wihs these Raths (Rathalos and Rathian) would stop being used. I am sick to death having to fight these monsters in every bloody MH game. They are just boring dragons, like many other monsters. So freakin boring.
Right I'm going to have to disagree on the "piscine makes them limited" thing because fish are VERY diverse visually, we've only ever gotten piscine wyverns that are based off of super generic fish like sharks or coelacanths to have monsters based off of, but weird looking fish like sawfish, sailfish, seahorses, sarcastic fringe head, and maybe gars or frog fish too would be amazing. The only challenge would be to diversify the movesets and if it looks too much like a fish and not like a wyvern it would become a leviathan like gobul.
You know what... you're actually right. So many different fish species and they keep going back to the most basic fish monster you can possibly imagine. That also limits how the fight works.
Here's a few ideas for new ones:
1. A barracuda styled one that's low to the ground in design and darts all over, trying to bite hunters.
2. An archer fish that tries to shoot water "bullets". It would try to keep at a certain distance.
3. A stingray that can camouflage and attacks with tail swipes that can poison.
4. A snake head. I honestly can't imagine anything special with this one. Maybe it's more aggressive and takes longer to run away from?
Even as it is I still like the Pisince wyverns because there just fish that evolved to look like wyverns to survive
And the amount of potential then is so astronomically high, but unfortunately, Capcom aren't exactly going to see that until the community actually gives them love.. and that makes me sad ;^;
Like we got a mantis that create a Mech resembling a dragon that's pretty cool, and we got fish that resemble wyverns is pretty cool
Very nice video, but as a French I need to correct this at 1:53 it isn't "wivre".....
The correct spelling is "vouivre"
That's all for me....
Keep on the good work dude
I think one of the big problems is that the piscine wyverns not only had a bad starter monster (cephalos and cephadrome), but their most recognized monster (Plesioth) is also not great. If anything, the piscine wyverns suffer from being a gen 1 monster, where everyone was basically a flying wyvern rip-off and not having a "true" end-game threat. Then at gen 3, the leviathans literally stole their main role as sea monsters.
What comes down to why piscine wyverns are bad imo is because if Plesioth is their strongest and most recognizable piscine wyvern, he is used as the base for all other piscines that came after him. The problem is that Plesioth still feels like a variation of the base flying wyvern, so by following this principle, all the others come down to have the same problems as their base. They all feel as forgetable flying wyverns that doesn't fly (with the exception of Beatodus, which i also think is the best psicine wyvern ever made).
Unless they drop Plesioth to a mid tier threat and make a new "high end" piscine wyvern that doesn't follow the flying wyvern body type, where they can base a couple new ones in the lower tiers, i feel piscines will keep being the shit tier monsters they are.
It's a shame they didn't get the remake treatment, after the incredible job did with leviathans, but piscine wyverns seems to mostly boil down to either being a punching bag like beotodus, or being being an overkill armoured fish with a hip check. The Lionfish design looks a lot like Amatsu in some ways.
Hmm... I dunno. I think they were pretty cool in World. Lavasioth and Beotodus were pretty cool. I also don't really think that they even need to be all that great. There must be monsters that are less impressive to make it possible that there can be monsters that ARE impressive. Thats why the Prey and Drome and the Kut Ku etc. are so important so if you ask me, they are good as they are and important as a step stone to the more awesome and brutal stuff. But I woudln't complain about some more special and awesome ones to appear, that do more crazy cool stuff.
I've always thought that Piscine wyverns were meant to embody convergent evolution, and a great place would be to start with some of the existing fish. Namely, the bomb and blast arowanas which are a staple of the games. Not only are they a very cool family of fish, but the existence of blast element/blastblight as a mechanic means that you have something to work with mechanically.
In terms of the existing piscine wyverns, I think the biggest downfall is that most of them are themed around having a tough defense and moving in areas the player is at a disadvantage at. On their own, either of these is fine, just look at Baroth, but combined it's just two things that make the player feel ineffective.
I would really like to see a piscine wyvern that is intelligent and calculating. Fish are much smarter than we give them credit for !
Some can recognize themselves in mirrors and many have very complex social behaviors.
a piscine wyvern that actively commands a school could be neat actually . . .
and a separate, more standalone piscine wyvern that has the character of intelligence, the vibe of it. but its a very different type of intelligence to us mammals in a way that feels alien. That'd be cool
rlly hoping piscine wyverns get more attention in future games, fingers crossed
i feel like they're just making a big fish and substituting water with something else. because they limited the whole tree to "yea fish" it severely cripples it. you can't even have like a giant octopus who lives in the treetops of a rain forest who makes like a funnel for all the rainwater to collect somewhere cause it'd be a cephalopod. just comes down to "this giant fish swim in ____!" maybe i'd be more diverse with the swimming mechanic back cause that would open a lot more possibilities, but then i'd feel like some monster would only be in the water cause fish.