Finally a video I don’t fall asleep halfway through (NOT AN INSULT, I listen to them like a podcast at night to sleep because the music + commentary is calming asf)
I will die on that hill with you. It WILL be a valuable joker. It WILL turn a bad run around. So what if it's eternal? It's even beneficial, other jokers can't get rid of it either So what if it's rental? Most money generation jokers start at $4 minimum Get it twisted. Take the negative tag. This is our hill brother, only we know the secret to success.
Free rare should move up imo. Cost being free matters slightly more than for rares and the chances of getting a good rare joker is higher with the balance changes.
I would disagree. Remember, we’re only considering skipping in ante 1 or maybe early ante 2. In these situations, a free rare is still not worth skipping a shop and interest. This is because rares generally require you to build around them, and that kind of investment early game really isn’t feasible. Sure it’s better than before, so maybe it could be moved up to above polychrome, but it’s still not great.
@@rkidy well I think it should be on par or even better than the uncommon considering sixth sense and seance are now uncommon, along with burnt joker being rare uncommon should probably be moved down instead of rare being moved up
I’m glad they buffed skips, because the new joker stickers encourage skipping so it feels less bad when you have to skip rounds to save money on a rental or keep a perishable alive
Temperance money is a terrible reason to skip a whole ass shop. That said, pretty sure he moved it down as a joke. It's been strictly buffed, and of his three previous complaints (if you get it early you can't afford it, alot of the time it's just not good, filling joker slots at the start of the game isn't easy enough for getting an extra one to be super duper worthwhile) one of them has been completely alleviated.
@@tsawy6 While the tag itself hasn’t been nerfed in any way, the new perishables and rentals make negative tag a little riskier to take imo (at least on higher stakes). Little bit of an indirect nerf, but doesn’t really matter on stakes below orange so your point still stands.
@@darka4651 For sure, stickers make it really hard to justify skipping shops (tho there are def cases where I think it'd be worth, esp on small blind without reward), but the game exists outside of gold!
Personally I feel that any tag that isn't directly affected by the patch got negatively impacted due to booster packs price increase no longer being a thing on higher stakes. There's even less reason to get a tag in place of playing a round and getting a shop than before. The buffed tags are mostly neutrally impacted as a whole in this patch imo and the only one that should move up is investment tag.
in your original video you did justify putting the poly, rare and negative skip tags lower because "in the early game you wouldn't have the money to buy them" but now that they are free and that the uncommon rarity has been debuffed in favour of the rare rarity wouldn't you either lower the uncommon tag or make the rare tag higher?
I feel that the joker tags should include “Pure” as part of it. Pure as in, “wont get rental, perishable, eternal” Also that there should be a sprectal card that purifies a random joker.
frankly, since i'm now grinding to get all the remaining gold stakes, I agree with all those joker tags being not better if not worse than before in that difficulty. they WILL be at least one thing among rental, eternal or perishable and even though they're free it doesnt make up for the rest. I'd say that the exception would be in anaglyph deck because you just get way too many copies and among them one will be free of penalties.
I thing skipping for a rare joker is very powerful early on, especially on the lower stakes, as you can build around it and start with a massive advantage
The problem with taking an early rare is that very few of them are an immediate help in the early Antes when you'd be most inclined to skip. Everything in the rare pool is either Xmult, chips, or a value generator, while early antes demand finding a source of +mullt and economy. Out of the 20 rares, only 4 are really good to find early: Burnt, Wee, Vagabond, and Stuntman
I think most if not all of the skip tags end up precisely the same in most situations considering every change made. The free cost for the rare and uncommon jokers definitely makes them even more appealing early in the run, but with the addition of all the new modifiers you'll be hard pressed to find one that gets full value from the free cost, be it perishable or a rental which would have already cost only 1 dollar anyways, meaning you only really got the already existing benefit and the joker at the cost of paying NYC levels of rent. A bigger impact to consider for some of these tags than the actual buffs is the overall balance changes for higher stakes imo, if you've got really powerful jokers but a perishable timer running against you, you might be able to skip a round or two on the back of that perishable joker being powerful enough to warrant you keeping it around coupled with the tags, and with some of the more risk-punishing aspects of Gold stake runs removed you might be able to take the value of these tags even in Antes 2 or 3 on the back of some mult and your base deck (still depending on which one you start with ofc).
I agree with the second part that now skipping has almost nothing to do with the tag and more to do with the Jokers I already have. Both your example of Perishable Jokers, but also Madness which I actually think was buffed (even though I see most people thinking it was nerfed), since once I get a Madness to say x5 or something by itself (or maybe with an Eternal or two if I found good ones), if I see a shop with say Half Joker/Blackboard I can now decide to pick those up and only play Boss Blinds from now on if my Joker roster is enough to win the run- as opposed to before where I could only ever add Eternal Jokers to my roster.
@@Math.BanditMadness is definitely a good reason to skip but also not sure if I can see myself ever getting any Jokers which would change a Madness run enough to skip more than 1-2 blinds to save (though a highlight run for me once was a 4th eternal on a Madness run in the form of Stuntman which allowed me to crush Verdant Leaf without selling at all, I could see myself having skipped to keep that Stuntman if I got it earlier and non-eternal) but I agree the option should be noted.
When I was on lower difficulties, I saw this tier list and thought you were nuts. On gold stakes, now it makes sense to me. When there aren't "bad" jokers, negative is pretty incredible. The free jokers in general are really good on any stakes without bad jokers imo.
My first game on the new patch: Picked free rare tag. Got blueprint. Opened the buffoon pack in the first shop. Got bloodstone. Later got Invisible Joker. Duped Blueprint. Later on got D6 for guaranteed Bloodstone. I'm using Painted Deck. Best patch ever.
I think once you are playing at the difficulty where you don't get scoring money from the small blind the foil and holo jokers are now incredibly strong on the first blind. You can beat the big blind with two hands entering the shop with $10 and pick up a free joker that is guaranteed to help you score, I think this is a great deal even in the case that it is eternal or perishable. I think the one place it would potentially hurt is at gold stake where it has the potential to be rental, but could very well still be worth it.
Rare and uncommon should switch places now that the rare pool is much better and the uncommon pool is much worse. Polychrome should be moved up because the reason it was so low was because you very rarely had enough money to buy it in ante 1.
Disagree about why poly was bad. Poly is bad because 1.5x mult is not very good early on. Compare that to holo that is essentially giving you 3.5x mult on your straights and flushes and 6x mult on your (two) pair.
On the lower stakes, edition joker tags are now absolutely worth it on Ante 1/2. Previously, being able to afford the joker set you back significantly on getting $25 for interest and kickstarting you economy, and often meant you couldn't buy other things that you wanted in that shop. Now, taking a free joker early on allows you to build around whatever you get without really losing the early income that you would have gained from not skipping the round (since you get a similar amount in the form of a joker discount)
You're on the right track but the number is greater than 10. Seeing 12 shops (cuz you get two for free with or without the tag) costs 55 with the tag and 70 without. It's 18 shops seen, or 16 rerolls where they equal. Indeed, the difference is maximised at 8 rerolls, or 10 shops seen, where you save only 16 dollars. d6 tag is strictly worse than the investment tag, and this only gets massively worse once you get reroll voucher. (difference is given by (n^2-8n)/2, where n is the number of rerolls)
@@tsawy6 Oh that makes sense. I was forgetting about the free "reroll" you get just by looking at the shop. In any case, BU must be trolling with that ranking lol. I just accepted it last video because it sounded reasonable, but I got got :D
@@b130610 TBH, it's subtle enough that it's easy to miss. The clown Joker that gives you a free reroll is secretly really good for example, and if that's your reference and you don't take the skip tag too often... I can see how you'd fall for it.
Rarity/Edition Tags being able to be subject to Rental feels like it defeats the purpose of the tag. I'm still selecting instead of taking a D6 tag though since you have to skip a round's income and shop visit just for an effect that dwindles as you redeem Reroll Surplus/Glut. For D6 to escape Expelled tier, you'd have to get the shop visit and one or two free reroll(s) as soon as you skip, and shop visits on tags sound like they defeat the purpose of the tags.
I believe the idea behind it is comparing to a situation in school in which multiple students are assigned to a group-project, but only one of the students ends up doing all the work, and thus ends up doing the group project "solo". This is a highly rated tier because the student who is actually managing to carry the weight of 2 or more other people must be quite proficient at the class to be capable of doing so (even if in reality that's not a fair situation to be in).
Honestly, why don't they make the joker edition tags just let you apply an edition to one of your jokers? That'd make up for the high cost by being reliably useful.
Why is spectral pack on expelled. Ive won countless games on yellow tier hitting madness + copying it with spectral packs or a scaling joker + copy. Its honestly gives free wins
@MrGhosta5 still the lowest rank for a pack that can give you a free win is stupid. On the hardest difficulty you are going to reset a lot since you usually wont hit enough power for the stage 2/3 bosses.
Unrelated to your anecdote, but why is Spectral Tag a fun size candy bar while the other pack tags are Mega Packs? Did the devs ever say why Spectral Tag can't at least be a Jumbo, especially given the same pricing structure for the packs?
@RaceBandit it's the strongest pack by far. If you get 12 aces for example or make 20 heart cards + bloodstone. You will instantly win most fights. My favorite synergy is credit card + rare joker which removes your dept. Immolate is the strongest card by far. Destroy 5 cards get 20$ is always worth.
For jokers or skiptags? He reckons skip tags are basically never gonna be worth. In general high scores are just gonna follow the same sort of ideas as any of his long runs: get fat deck manipulation and then stack the living hell out of x mult through glass, steel, baron, ancient joker, etc. and retriggers
as a person with a hundred-some hours in this, I agree with him. If you're talking white stake, then you have an argument but it's pointless to skip a shop and lose money for a worthless negative
Rare should move up, since meh rare jokers have become uncommon (sixth sense) and good uncommon jokers have become rare (vagabond) and by god please do the negative tag some justice
Honestly, I disagree with some of these takes. Free negatives might not necessarily be "the BEST strategy" but they are probably the most fun tag in the game, and a 6 joker is never a bad thing. It could br a rental, but if it isn't then it's a net postitive. Putting it at the bottom of the list is a crime! Also the rare tag is pretty great, especially now that it's free. At least as good as the uncommon tag. This is also coming from someone who prioritizes fun over the "perfect" strategy, so my opinions are bound to be different ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
A 5-minute upload from BU?
What the fuck
5 minutes for 2 minors changes to the list is very him.
Finally a video I don’t fall asleep halfway through (NOT AN INSULT, I listen to them like a podcast at night to sleep because the music + commentary is calming asf)
just rewatch it 20 times
If I see a Negative Tag, I'm taking it. And I will die on that hill.
please do not die on this hill
It has a high chance of being mostly useless…
*BUT* what if it’s the best Joker your build could have???
(Chronic Wheel spinner here)
I will die on that hill with you.
It WILL be a valuable joker.
It WILL turn a bad run around.
So what if it's eternal? It's even beneficial, other jokers can't get rid of it either
So what if it's rental? Most money generation jokers start at $4 minimum
Get it twisted. Take the negative tag.
This is our hill brother, only we know the secret to success.
I just take it as a hedge for green boss
@@kanyenortheast35461/4 is way better odds than a casino so it’s ALWAYS better to flip it
Free rare should move up imo. Cost being free matters slightly more than for rares and the chances of getting a good rare joker is higher with the balance changes.
I would disagree. Remember, we’re only considering skipping in ante 1 or maybe early ante 2. In these situations, a free rare is still not worth skipping a shop and interest. This is because rares generally require you to build around them, and that kind of investment early game really isn’t feasible. Sure it’s better than before, so maybe it could be moved up to above polychrome, but it’s still not great.
@@rkidy Yep a lot of rares are situational. Uncommons are often still very good even if not optimal. Rares can actually hurt.
@@rkidy well I think it should be on par or even better than the uncommon considering sixth sense and seance are now uncommon, along with burnt joker being rare
uncommon should probably be moved down instead of rare being moved up
uncommons and commons are better than rares in this game because of how much more likely they are to fit your build. Change my mind.
@@xyronox well yeah but most of the time you're skipping in the early antes where you don't have a build yet.
sorry Professor, but Negative tag is still gonna be an easy skip for me on Ante 1/2. why? because it's funny. we are all bound by the "funny" rule.
Negative tag anaglyph deck my beloved
negative tags can't show up on ante 1. Hardcoded to only show up ante 2+
@@Jacob-ql5qwboo :’(
@@SenrabMJamhaha fr
I will skip for it on ante 11 just to lose honestly
I’m glad they buffed skips, because the new joker stickers encourage skipping so it feels less bad when you have to skip rounds to save money on a rental or keep a perishable alive
Moving negative tag into expelled is absolutely hilarious. Even if you can't sell them with eternal, aren't they still temeprance money?
Temperance money is a terrible reason to skip a whole ass shop. That said, pretty sure he moved it down as a joke. It's been strictly buffed, and of his three previous complaints (if you get it early you can't afford it, alot of the time it's just not good, filling joker slots at the start of the game isn't easy enough for getting an extra one to be super duper worthwhile) one of them has been completely alleviated.
@@tsawy6 While the tag itself hasn’t been nerfed in any way, the new perishables and rentals make negative tag a little riskier to take imo (at least on higher stakes). Little bit of an indirect nerf, but doesn’t really matter on stakes below orange so your point still stands.
@@darka4651 For sure, stickers make it really hard to justify skipping shops (tho there are def cases where I think it'd be worth, esp on small blind without reward), but the game exists outside of gold!
Also extra mult for swash and abstract joker or can be sold for campfire or verdant leaf.
I guess downplaying negative tsg is a kind of meme at this point
Personally I feel that any tag that isn't directly affected by the patch got negatively impacted due to booster packs price increase no longer being a thing on higher stakes. There's even less reason to get a tag in place of playing a round and getting a shop than before. The buffed tags are mostly neutrally impacted as a whole in this patch imo and the only one that should move up is investment tag.
negative sucks now though :(
in your original video you did justify putting the poly, rare and negative skip tags lower because "in the early game you wouldn't have the money to buy them" but now that they are free and that the uncommon rarity has been debuffed in favour of the rare rarity wouldn't you either lower the uncommon tag or make the rare tag higher?
I feel that the joker tags should include “Pure” as part of it.
Pure as in, “wont get rental, perishable, eternal”
Also that there should be a sprectal card that purifies a random joker.
frankly, since i'm now grinding to get all the remaining gold stakes, I agree with all those joker tags being not better if not worse than before in that difficulty. they WILL be at least one thing among rental, eternal or perishable and even though they're free it doesnt make up for the rest. I'd say that the exception would be in anaglyph deck because you just get way too many copies and among them one will be free of penalties.
I thing skipping for a rare joker is very powerful early on, especially on the lower stakes, as you can build around it and start with a massive advantage
The problem with taking an early rare is that very few of them are an immediate help in the early Antes when you'd be most inclined to skip. Everything in the rare pool is either Xmult, chips, or a value generator, while early antes demand finding a source of +mullt and economy.
Out of the 20 rares, only 4 are really good to find early: Burnt, Wee, Vagabond, and Stuntman
In this patch the anaglyph deck became more playable, I guess. In general, everything has become a little (in some moments a lot) easier IMO.
I think most if not all of the skip tags end up precisely the same in most situations considering every change made. The free cost for the rare and uncommon jokers definitely makes them even more appealing early in the run, but with the addition of all the new modifiers you'll be hard pressed to find one that gets full value from the free cost, be it perishable or a rental which would have already cost only 1 dollar anyways, meaning you only really got the already existing benefit and the joker at the cost of paying NYC levels of rent.
A bigger impact to consider for some of these tags than the actual buffs is the overall balance changes for higher stakes imo, if you've got really powerful jokers but a perishable timer running against you, you might be able to skip a round or two on the back of that perishable joker being powerful enough to warrant you keeping it around coupled with the tags, and with some of the more risk-punishing aspects of Gold stake runs removed you might be able to take the value of these tags even in Antes 2 or 3 on the back of some mult and your base deck (still depending on which one you start with ofc).
I agree with the second part that now skipping has almost nothing to do with the tag and more to do with the Jokers I already have. Both your example of Perishable Jokers, but also Madness which I actually think was buffed (even though I see most people thinking it was nerfed), since once I get a Madness to say x5 or something by itself (or maybe with an Eternal or two if I found good ones), if I see a shop with say Half Joker/Blackboard I can now decide to pick those up and only play Boss Blinds from now on if my Joker roster is enough to win the run- as opposed to before where I could only ever add Eternal Jokers to my roster.
@@Math.BanditMadness is definitely a good reason to skip but also not sure if I can see myself ever getting any Jokers which would change a Madness run enough to skip more than 1-2 blinds to save (though a highlight run for me once was a 4th eternal on a Madness run in the form of Stuntman which allowed me to crush Verdant Leaf without selling at all, I could see myself having skipped to keep that Stuntman if I got it earlier and non-eternal) but I agree the option should be noted.
Now we LOVE polychrome, negative, and investment tag (or at least I do)
i value rare more highly now that seance has moved down into uncommon and vagabond + vampire have moved up to rare.
When I was on lower difficulties, I saw this tier list and thought you were nuts. On gold stakes, now it makes sense to me.
When there aren't "bad" jokers, negative is pretty incredible. The free jokers in general are really good on any stakes without bad jokers imo.
My first game on the new patch: Picked free rare tag. Got blueprint. Opened the buffoon pack in the first shop. Got bloodstone. Later got Invisible Joker. Duped Blueprint. Later on got D6 for guaranteed Bloodstone.
I'm using Painted Deck.
Best patch ever.
I think once you are playing at the difficulty where you don't get scoring money from the small blind the foil and holo jokers are now incredibly strong on the first blind. You can beat the big blind with two hands entering the shop with $10 and pick up a free joker that is guaranteed to help you score, I think this is a great deal even in the case that it is eternal or perishable. I think the one place it would potentially hurt is at gold stake where it has the potential to be rental, but could very well still be worth it.
Rare and uncommon should switch places now that the rare pool is much better and the uncommon pool is much worse. Polychrome should be moved up because the reason it was so low was because you very rarely had enough money to buy it in ante 1.
Disagree about why poly was bad. Poly is bad because 1.5x mult is not very good early on. Compare that to holo that is essentially giving you 3.5x mult on your straights and flushes and 6x mult on your (two) pair.
@@BeesAndSunshine thats assuming you dont level up your hands at all
On the lower stakes, edition joker tags are now absolutely worth it on Ante 1/2. Previously, being able to afford the joker set you back significantly on getting $25 for interest and kickstarting you economy, and often meant you couldn't buy other things that you wanted in that shop. Now, taking a free joker early on allows you to build around whatever you get without really losing the early income that you would have gained from not skipping the round (since you get a similar amount in the form of a joker discount)
I agree with most comments about the uncommon and rare joker pools. Rare should definitely go up a tier, uncommon potentially down.
just use anaglyph deck, get to ante 8, find a negative skip and then get 3000000 jokers for free
I love doing that
Am I missing something, or is the reroll tag just worse than spreading your rerolls out over two shops if you are rerolling more than 10 times?
You're on the right track but the number is greater than 10. Seeing 12 shops (cuz you get two for free with or without the tag) costs 55 with the tag and 70 without. It's 18 shops seen, or 16 rerolls where they equal. Indeed, the difference is maximised at 8 rerolls, or 10 shops seen, where you save only 16 dollars. d6 tag is strictly worse than the investment tag, and this only gets massively worse once you get reroll voucher. (difference is given by (n^2-8n)/2, where n is the number of rerolls)
@@tsawy6 Oh that makes sense. I was forgetting about the free "reroll" you get just by looking at the shop. In any case, BU must be trolling with that ranking lol. I just accepted it last video because it sounded reasonable, but I got got :D
@@b130610 TBH, it's subtle enough that it's easy to miss. The clown Joker that gives you a free reroll is secretly really good for example, and if that's your reference and you don't take the skip tag too often... I can see how you'd fall for it.
I finally understand how the tier list works, and the joke being graduating with honors means that they dont skip
Rarity/Edition Tags being able to be subject to Rental feels like it defeats the purpose of the tag.
I'm still selecting instead of taking a D6 tag though since you have to skip a round's income and shop visit just for an effect that dwindles as you redeem Reroll Surplus/Glut. For D6 to escape Expelled tier, you'd have to get the shop visit and one or two free reroll(s) as soon as you skip, and shop visits on tags sound like they defeat the purpose of the tags.
What does "Solo 'group project'" mean?
I believe the idea behind it is comparing to a situation in school in which multiple students are assigned to a group-project, but only one of the students ends up doing all the work, and thus ends up doing the group project "solo". This is a highly rated tier because the student who is actually managing to carry the weight of 2 or more other people must be quite proficient at the class to be capable of doing so (even if in reality that's not a fair situation to be in).
Honestly, why don't they make the joker edition tags just let you apply an edition to one of your jokers? That'd make up for the high cost by being reliably useful.
I think that would be busted. There's a reason Wheel has 1/4 chance of success, and IIRC 1/6 chance of hitting polychrome.
Anaglyph deck would be just a better black deck (not that it isn't better right now, I mean that it will be almost the same but with no hand penalty)
@@tundcwe123 Sure, the stronger tags are, the stronger anaglyph is.
R1 shop holo tag is graduating with honors. +10 mult is nothing to sneeze at in early red to black stake
Good stuff Balatroll University 😂
Why is spectral pack on expelled. Ive won countless games on yellow tier hitting madness + copying it with spectral packs or a scaling joker + copy.
Its honestly gives free wins
Spectral packs have a lot of variance. Sometimes you pull a perkeo and sometimes your playing the checkered deck and you pull familiar and sigil
@MrGhosta5 still the lowest rank for a pack that can give you a free win is stupid. On the hardest difficulty you are going to reset a lot since you usually wont hit enough power for the stage 2/3 bosses.
Unrelated to your anecdote, but why is Spectral Tag a fun size candy bar while the other pack tags are Mega Packs? Did the devs ever say why Spectral Tag can't at least be a Jumbo, especially given the same pricing structure for the packs?
@RaceBandit it's the strongest pack by far. If you get 12 aces for example or make 20 heart cards + bloodstone. You will instantly win most fights.
My favorite synergy is credit card + rare joker which removes your dept.
Immolate is the strongest card by far. Destroy 5 cards get 20$ is always worth.
Another great vid, ty
Remember students, this tier list isn't taking Anaglyph deck into account.
How about the next joker you buy is ...
Could you do a tier list for white stake high score seeking?
For jokers or skiptags? He reckons skip tags are basically never gonna be worth. In general high scores are just gonna follow the same sort of ideas as any of his long runs: get fat deck manipulation and then stack the living hell out of x mult through glass, steel, baron, ancient joker, etc. and retriggers
you should make a deck tier list
Heavily disagree with the downplay of negative skip for the fact that rentals exist.
as a person with a hundred-some hours in this, I agree with him. If you're talking white stake, then you have an argument but it's pointless to skip a shop and lose money for a worthless negative
Rare should move up, since meh rare jokers have become uncommon (sixth sense) and good uncommon jokers have become rare (vagabond) and by god please do the negative tag some justice
😭got triboilet blue king queen jokked rlegendary and a gold red seal king didn't read boss blind only one hand
why is the free reroll even good?
It saves you $5 every reroll. So if you were to roll 10 times in one shop, you'd save $50
Can someone explain what this is about?
Rares are a bit better now
Honestly, I disagree with some of these takes. Free negatives might not necessarily be "the BEST strategy" but they are probably the most fun tag in the game, and a 6 joker is never a bad thing. It could br a rental, but if it isn't then it's a net postitive. Putting it at the bottom of the list is a crime! Also the rare tag is pretty great, especially now that it's free. At least as good as the uncommon tag. This is also coming from someone who prioritizes fun over the "perfect" strategy, so my opinions are bound to be different ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Why would popup be better than mega buffoon?
He explained it in the video. There can't be stickers on the popup jokers.
F tier negative tag is the absolute worst take I've seen lmao
This guy has terrible advice. Who rates negative that low
He put a terrible tag in the lowest tier. What's the big deal
First