I appreciate a hand engraved gun because the man or women that does it took a lot of time out of each day to become something so many people appreciate.
It all depends on how one places personal value to an item with or to be engraved well. Say, a gun owner may well be more interested about what he wants achieve with a gun, wheras another person may be interested in image his item will reflect. One more is whether personal choice is to pay for a true master engraver to imbellish a gun. Laser is NOT engraving but mere marking of a surface. Remember all, that laser can be achieved by anyone who can push keys on a pc/computer.
The Boss style look-alike was much nicer than I would have expected but resolution on my screen wasn't great. For modern utility, I'd take it. For engraving alone; the Grant, though Grants where the engraving patterns sweep up onto the standing fences are most appealing to me.
As a hand engraver I can tell you no machine can do what I can do. No amount of computer skills and laser can achieve what a hand engraver can, it’s just not possible. What you are getting when you contract with a hand engraver is a one of a kind piece of artwork…something that doesn’t roll off the assembly line. Yes, engraving can be expensive but not cost prohibitive. Most engravers I know have an hourly base charge but that price gets cheaper the more there is to engrave. Some engravers charge by the square inch but that introduces an inconsistency when it come to the different types of scrollwork. Portraits and game/hunting scenes can take as much as 300 hours so it is prohibitive for the engraver to charge by the hour. It is a standard to have a budget and a workable idea of what you would like to have engraved. I find myself spending time educating people on the engraving process and especially so when the client is unfamiliar with the process.
@@bobbysmith7958 I do not. I did have but there are those out there, of low moral character, who copy the artwork of others instead of creating their own. I had one many years ago.
A point needs to be made for cost of engraving. It can be so that engraving can be similar cost of say, a gun of any description. Hourly cost some months ago was usd 50.oo, depending on level of expertise, this could jump to double of this.
As a fellow Hand Engraver, I feel I need to take a screenshot of your comment and tattoo it on my forehead... I just bought a fiber laser to show people a side-by-side comparison of the same artwork. Hand engraved with a 105 graver or "etched" onto the surface with a laser. As you say, no machine can replicate what we do, and I think holding both examples in your hands will help illustrate my point. Keep your cuts bright, homie!
Best thing I can say as an engraver that came from laser engraving. laser engraving really doesnt suit my fancy, but it can be a powerful tool for us hand engravers. Truly if you are purchasing a hand engraved piece it should be a piece of artwork that suits you specifically.
I appreciate the skill of any artisan. What I don't need is being expected to coddle the bruised ego of rando artisan who wants to gatekeep because "Those kids don't have to work as hard."
Hand engraved work by a human is art. Good or not so good its truly unique and that adds interest/value. Machine etched is a print, a copy, a feature. Still nice to look at sure but not unique. You can buy a print of the Mona Lisa for nothing but the Value lies the original. IMHO. Great video! Thank you!
...it's always idea (design) vs it's execution. If one is lacking, final result will probably be bad. Although laser engraving perfects the execution, design is still artist's idea that can be appreciated for it's beauty...:)
Enjoying the videos on the cosmetic side of gun ownership, would love to see a video on colour hardening and some guns available with it, could look at chemical one the beretta SP5 and then some proper job beauties! Perosnally think shiny guns are all fairly unattractive and think it's a shame you don't see more colour hardened over unders in the shooting field!
Art vs Pretty sums it up well. I prefer my 1920's Sidelock (Tulloch with a W&S action) over my Guerini Magnus. The Magnus is prettier, the Tulloch was made with someone's hands
Great video again, and I see you are now using a pointer. However a pointer should have a single point so one can see which bit you are pointing at. Otherwise you are just waving a hand in the general direction.
It is worthy of mention that narration was not in clear. A hurried explanation is off putting. Lighting and video work could have been shot at closer range, as it was difficult to view darker parts (which was obviously able to be viewed by the narrator).
the one that looks the best is the best, the design is the most important thing and how that’s achieved is fairly irrelevant, I’m a craftsman and if using a machine makes me quicker without sacrificing quality then it’s madness not to use it. And at the end of the day engraving on guns is just decoration. I don’t usually pay much attention to engraving but I’ve seen 70k guns with checkering that I would reject. Made with machine does not mean poor quality, would you want a computer cpu that was made in the best way possible or would you want one solely made by hand.
"would you want a computer cpu that was made in the best way possible or would you want one solely made by hand." this has nothing to do with Art. Art cannot be defined. You wrote a paragraph of logic to counter what someone feels. doesnt work that way
Great topic ... nice camera and production work ... nice presentation ... handsome presenter. Those are all pluses, so congratulations and thanks for the video..!! I'm not an overly-sensitive biker ... I work with engines, gearboxes, oil, grease, etc. and I accumulate tons of dirt ... and I don't wish to seem like I'm "body shaming" ... because I'm truly not. Please consider it as appreciative that I'm taking the liberty to offer an unsolicited gift of my appreciation. May I please send you a hand or fingernail scrub brush. I reckon your love interest might not mind, but to me (and probably to no other casual viewers), the scroungy fingernails are a distraction.
The chattering in the engraving isn’t because it was done with a pneumatic engraver, you can get that with hammer and chisel engraving. It is caused from the graver not being sharp enough, or the graver isn’t sharpened properly.
Not that it isnt sharpened properly.. rather wrong heel configuration, the Chattering on the scroll curve can be seen when the heel is too short on the upper axis,, air assist gravers use a more parallel type heel, which is great to help with heel drag, but hand push a parallel heel, is hard to conquer, as it ploughs to greater resistance, without the assitance of air..so a compromise with hand is sought...
I like the hand engraving. But I guess that would be because I'm more prepared. But I also do find the laser engraving very very nice. The fact that it's all pretty much the same lens to my OCD being okay with it. Being said I have one of my favorite 1911s is my Colt Commander factory engraved in 1921. I find it more pretty than some of the newer stuff there's a less depth of field. I would rather have a battling engraved gun. due to the fact that you're more likely to have an older more sought after gun handling engraved. Then if you get a laser engraved gun it is most likely going to be a new gun. I own your guns and there's some of my favorites but I have much more fun this of older firearms
At least with a hand engraved gun you will have something that is unique. Don’t get me wrong, I love my 525 One, but it is identical in every way to the same model being shot by the next bloke on the line.
gl engrave a gun like that with a laser without any practicing in a month ;) ide like to propose that laser engraving is a art of it self, first of the designwork in the computer, second, learning how a laser works ;) alot of parameters to get perfect to get a good resault :) cheers
I’m currently thinking about engraving my 1911 but was wondering if the engraving would lose any markings if I coated the gun after with titanium nitride or 24k finish? Should I coat first then engrave or engrave then coat ?
I bought a new pre 2019 silver pigeon after seeing your review on the new update is the old one rolled or cnc the new laser engraved silver pigeon and 691 both look cheap
For me hand engraving is very desirable to begin with but the associated cost makes it unattainable for me.People tend to prefer different styles of engraving whether its hand or machine engraving.I much prefer machine engraving than poor hand engraving.
Got a couple berettas, presume they are all machine done, I’m happy enough. Makes me wonder why someone hasn’t invented a computer controlled tattoo machine yet.... there’s plenty of bad hand engraved people out there.
Avoid the Donald Duck school (Attempts at animals resemble cartoon figures) of engraving like the plague, with my personal preference being well executed hand engraving over and above laser etching which bypasses legitimate engraving. Many think rolled engraving is hand cut, but that's thanks the skilled engraver who cut the roller blanks.
With an ia making the pattern, everything can be unique and perfect or with wanted imperfections. Laser engraving is quicker, more precise and can do more things. While I respect those that engrave by hand, let's be real, one is quick, cheap, more detailed with more possibility and the other is slow, limited and pricy. I want a gun that looks good, and laser engraving is a far better choice for me and most people.
Try and make those designs on a computer program and then try and automate it for someone else to "press the button". You will appreciate the artwork then.
If most mid range guns now have laser engraving why don’t the manufacturers have the option to drop the standard patterns and charge people an extra few hundred £/€/$ to upload a design or image to personalise the gun. It can’t be that difficult surely?
Interesting that actually to produce guns at the price they do, they are made on a serious production line. Pulling something off the line does incur a certain fee. On top of that, you would need to absolutely nail your design k the company software of choice.
Fully agreed. As 'hand made' anything is fading away for the majority, physical hand skills are of great value. Unless passed onto new generations, it will be lost forever.
I would rather have great laser cut. I think they will get the laser engraving even better. Will probably be impossible to tell in a few years. I even like how the parts are fitting better with the new technology of making them. I appreciate the hand made stuff but I can’t justify spending huge sums of money to get it when I can buy a gun for much less money that has modern steel and computer aided fit and finish.
Well, you can be absolutely satisfied with a modern good quality gun. But what I see in a hand-made gun is that you buy a gun made just for you, it's a unique product. The premium you pay is for a hand work, and it does cost a lot today. Afterall, a good quality let's say Sako or Sauer would cost ca. 3-4k €, and a hand-made 98 by a local gunsmith around 10k.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, it can also be in the depths of his or her pocket! Give me a quality action, with a not quite ken Hunt quality hand engraving please, I'll be a happy man. 😂
Whilst admiring the skill of the hand engravers, frankly I cannot see the point in paying a fortune for something that is 'imperfect', by definition, when the laser engraving is perfect.
That is something like "why would I buy painting when I can get photography?" Laser engraving is technically perfect. Or perfectly consistent. Not perfect. Whatever picture of the laser vs hand engraving I saw there was one clear difference - laser one was dull. You move over the surface and set the depth. It is like minus 1 dimension. You cannot angle the cut or whatever is the reason. Maybe you can compare technical drawing vs. detailed artists vision. Also maybe technology is advancing enough but so far laser engravings to me seemed to have smaller resolution (cannot go to so tiny details as hand engraving) as well as edges are like rounded, like laser engraver is unable to produce sharp edges
7:18 I wouldnt say that lazer engraving isint art, someone still had to make the pattern that the laser engraves. Are you saying prints arent art? Are Digital artists who paint with a computer not artists? There is merit to saying its lesser in some way but it still is art.
I appreciate hand engraving, but if it’s done poorly I would have rather had the laser cut.
Yes, poorly done hand engraving looks really bad.
Excellent and the ending summed it up perfectly. “One is art, the other is…pretty”.
Kind of like people liking mechanical watch VS quartz watch...
I appreciate a hand engraved gun because the man or women that does it took a lot of time out of each day to become something so many people appreciate.
Engravings give you no tactical advantage whatsoever.
at the same time i appreciate laser engraving because it means that a working man can get a nice, more personalized gun for way less time and money.
It all depends on how one places personal value to an item with or to be engraved well.
Say, a gun owner may well be more interested about what he wants achieve with a gun, wheras another person may be interested in image his item will reflect.
One more is whether personal choice is to pay for a true master engraver to imbellish a gun.
Laser is NOT engraving but mere marking of a surface.
Remember all, that laser can be achieved by anyone who can push keys on a pc/computer.
The Boss style look-alike was much nicer than I would have expected but resolution on my screen wasn't great.
For modern utility, I'd take it. For engraving alone; the Grant, though Grants where the engraving patterns sweep up onto the standing fences are most appealing to me.
As a hand engraver I can tell you no machine can do what I can do. No amount of computer skills and laser can achieve what a hand engraver can, it’s just not possible. What you are getting when you contract with a hand engraver is a one of a kind piece of artwork…something that doesn’t roll off the assembly line. Yes, engraving can be expensive but not cost prohibitive. Most engravers I know have an hourly base charge but that price gets cheaper the more there is to engrave. Some engravers charge by the square inch but that introduces an inconsistency when it come to the different types of scrollwork. Portraits and game/hunting scenes can take as much as 300 hours so it is prohibitive for the engraver to charge by the hour. It is a standard to have a budget and a workable idea of what you would like to have engraved. I find myself spending time educating people on the engraving process and especially so when the client is unfamiliar with the process.
Looking for someone to engrave a firearm. Do you have a website?
@@bobbysmith7958 I do not. I did have but there are those out there, of low moral character, who copy the artwork of others instead of creating their own. I had one many years ago.
A point needs to be made for cost of engraving.
It can be so that engraving can be similar cost of say, a gun of any description.
Hourly cost some months ago was usd 50.oo, depending on level of expertise, this could jump to double of this.
I as a amateur engraver agree with you.
As a fellow Hand Engraver, I feel I need to take a screenshot of your comment and tattoo it on my forehead... I just bought a fiber laser to show people a side-by-side comparison of the same artwork. Hand engraved with a 105 graver or "etched" onto the surface with a laser. As you say, no machine can replicate what we do, and I think holding both examples in your hands will help illustrate my point. Keep your cuts bright, homie!
Best thing I can say as an engraver that came from laser engraving. laser engraving really doesnt suit my fancy, but it can be a powerful tool for us hand engravers. Truly if you are purchasing a hand engraved piece it should be a piece of artwork that suits you specifically.
I appreciate the skill of any artisan. What I don't need is being expected to coddle the bruised ego of rando artisan who wants to gatekeep because "Those kids don't have to work as hard."
Hand engraved work by a human is art. Good or not so good its truly unique and that adds interest/value. Machine etched is a print, a copy, a feature. Still nice to look at sure but not unique. You can buy a print of the Mona Lisa for nothing but the Value lies the original. IMHO. Great video! Thank you!
I hope your headache gets better soon. Your content continues to amuse me.
...it's always idea (design) vs it's execution. If one is lacking, final result will probably be bad. Although laser engraving perfects the execution, design is still artist's idea that can be appreciated for it's beauty...:)
Enjoying the videos on the cosmetic side of gun ownership, would love to see a video on colour hardening and some guns available with it, could look at chemical one the beretta SP5 and then some proper job beauties! Perosnally think shiny guns are all fairly unattractive and think it's a shame you don't see more colour hardened over unders in the shooting field!
Art vs Pretty sums it up well. I prefer my 1920's Sidelock (Tulloch with a W&S action) over my Guerini Magnus. The Magnus is prettier, the Tulloch was made with someone's hands
The Tulloch is very special, but the layman would choose the Guerini all day long
Great video again, and I see you are now using a pointer. However a pointer should have a single point so one can see which bit you are pointing at. Otherwise you are just waving a hand in the general direction.
It is worthy of mention that narration was not in clear.
A hurried explanation is off putting.
Lighting and video work could have been shot at closer range, as it was difficult to view darker parts (which was obviously able to be viewed by the narrator).
the one that looks the best is the best, the design is the most important thing and how that’s achieved is fairly irrelevant, I’m a craftsman and if using a machine makes me quicker without sacrificing quality then it’s madness not to use it. And at the end of the day engraving on guns is just decoration. I don’t usually pay much attention to engraving but I’ve seen 70k guns with checkering that I would reject. Made with machine does not mean poor quality, would you want a computer cpu that was made in the best way possible or would you want one solely made by hand.
"would you want a computer cpu that was made in the best way possible or would you want one solely made by hand."
this has nothing to do with Art. Art cannot be defined. You wrote a paragraph of logic to counter what someone feels. doesnt work that way
Great way of describing the difference!
I’m with you. I would rather have a unengraved gun rather than a poorly engraved or machine engraved one.
can you talk about the new Perazzi shotguns? How are they engraved.
Great topic ... nice camera and production work ... nice presentation ... handsome presenter. Those are all pluses, so congratulations and thanks for the video..!! I'm not an overly-sensitive biker ... I work with engines, gearboxes, oil, grease, etc. and I accumulate tons of dirt ... and I don't wish to seem like I'm "body shaming" ... because I'm truly not. Please consider it as appreciative that I'm taking the liberty to offer an unsolicited gift of my appreciation. May I please send you a hand or fingernail scrub brush. I reckon your love interest might not mind, but to me (and probably to no other casual viewers), the scroungy fingernails are a distraction.
The chattering in the engraving isn’t because it was done with a pneumatic engraver, you can get that with hammer and chisel engraving. It is caused from the graver not being sharp enough, or the graver isn’t sharpened properly.
Not that it isnt sharpened properly.. rather wrong heel configuration, the Chattering on the scroll curve can be seen when the heel is too short on the upper axis,, air assist gravers use a more parallel type heel, which is great to help with heel drag, but hand push a parallel heel, is hard to conquer, as it ploughs to greater resistance, without the assitance of air..so a compromise with hand is sought...
I like the hand engraving. But I guess that would be because I'm more prepared. But I also do find the laser engraving very very nice. The fact that it's all pretty much the same lens to my OCD being okay with it. Being said I have one of my favorite 1911s is my Colt Commander factory engraved in 1921. I find it more pretty than some of the newer stuff there's a less depth of field. I would rather have a battling engraved gun. due to the fact that you're more likely to have an older more sought after gun handling engraved. Then if you get a laser engraved gun it is most likely going to be a new gun. I own your guns and there's some of my favorites but I have much more fun this of older firearms
At least with a hand engraved gun you will have something that is unique. Don’t get me wrong, I love my 525 One, but it is identical in every way to the same model being shot by the next bloke on the line.
Hi I 687eell field with the partridge/woodcock scene engraved on it.
What type of engraving would that be then?
gl engrave a gun like that with a laser without any practicing in a month ;) ide like to propose that laser engraving is a art of it self, first of the designwork in the computer, second, learning how a laser works ;) alot of parameters to get perfect to get a good resault :) cheers
Good looking guns with a good looking guy
Kinda sus bro
You are absolutely right, lovely collection of guns, and a handsome Brit, but aren't we all! 😂🤣😅
you're are doin' a very good job.
very good.
a very, very good job.
as I see from Bucharest, Romania.
I’m currently thinking about engraving my 1911 but was wondering if the engraving would lose any markings if I coated the gun after with titanium nitride or 24k finish? Should I coat first then engrave or engrave then coat ?
Hopefully you consulted a master engraver before venturing into the project.
I bought a new pre 2019 silver pigeon after seeing your review on the new update is the old one rolled or cnc the new laser engraved silver pigeon and 691 both look cheap
Art or just pretty? Someone did design the pretty part.
Are the Merkels that are engraved all hand engraved?? I read that they are hand engraved and also hand checkered. I have a 2001 model 147e. Thanks
For me hand engraving is very desirable to begin with but the associated cost makes it unattainable for me.People tend to prefer different styles of engraving whether its hand or machine engraving.I much prefer machine engraving than poor hand engraving.
Thank you
Got a couple berettas, presume they are all machine done, I’m happy enough.
Makes me wonder why someone hasn’t invented a computer controlled tattoo machine yet.... there’s plenty of bad hand engraved people out there.
Just don't let it tattoo your eyelids brother. lol
keep the art. I ll take the pretty one. thanks for the vid.
Avoid the Donald Duck school (Attempts at animals resemble cartoon figures) of engraving like the plague, with my personal preference being well executed hand engraving over and above laser etching which bypasses legitimate engraving. Many think rolled engraving is hand cut, but that's thanks the skilled engraver who cut the roller blanks.
With an ia making the pattern, everything can be unique and perfect or with wanted imperfections.
Laser engraving is quicker, more precise and can do more things.
While I respect those that engrave by hand, let's be real, one is quick, cheap, more detailed with more possibility and the other is slow, limited and pricy.
I want a gun that looks good, and laser engraving is a far better choice for me and most people.
Try and make those designs on a computer program and then try and automate it for someone else to "press the button".
You will appreciate the artwork then.
If most mid range guns now have laser engraving why don’t the manufacturers have the option to drop the standard patterns and charge people an extra few hundred £/€/$ to upload a design or image to personalise the gun. It can’t be that difficult surely?
Interesting that actually to produce guns at the price they do, they are made on a serious production line. Pulling something off the line does incur a certain fee. On top of that, you would need to absolutely nail your design k the company software of choice.
I would rather have a badly engraved gun, but we all want what we don't have.
Hand engraving is superior even if its not as precise. Handwork is the only thing that makes firearms unique today.
Fully agreed.
As 'hand made' anything is fading away for the majority, physical hand skills are of great value. Unless passed onto new generations, it will be lost forever.
I would rather have great laser cut. I think they will get the laser engraving even better. Will probably be impossible to tell in a few years. I even like how the parts are fitting better with the new technology of making them. I appreciate the hand made stuff but I can’t justify spending huge sums of money to get it when I can buy a gun for much less money that has modern steel and computer aided fit and finish.
Well, you can be absolutely satisfied with a modern good quality gun. But what I see in a hand-made gun is that you buy a gun made just for you, it's a unique product. The premium you pay is for a hand work, and it does cost a lot today. Afterall, a good quality let's say Sako or Sauer would cost ca. 3-4k €, and a hand-made 98 by a local gunsmith around 10k.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, it can also be in the depths of his or her pocket! Give me a quality action, with a not quite ken Hunt quality hand engraving please, I'll be a happy man. 😂
Take your pocket knife out and clean under them fingernails!... GREAT VIDEO... But ya, do that... Haha!
Engravings...
...give you no tactical advantage whatsoever
That was some fancy shooting, Pretty good.
Horses for courses I would say.....
heard you say, not see you pointed. Slowly please.
I would rather have less than perfect hand graved. I do not want a laser engraved gun. To me it’s fake
Whilst admiring the skill of the hand engravers, frankly I cannot see the point in paying a fortune for something that is 'imperfect', by definition, when the laser engraving is perfect.
That is something like "why would I buy painting when I can get photography?"
Laser engraving is technically perfect. Or perfectly consistent. Not perfect.
Whatever picture of the laser vs hand engraving I saw there was one clear difference - laser one was dull. You move over the surface and set the depth. It is like minus 1 dimension. You cannot angle the cut or whatever is the reason. Maybe you can compare technical drawing vs. detailed artists vision. Also maybe technology is advancing enough but so far laser engravings to me seemed to have smaller resolution (cannot go to so tiny details as hand engraving) as well as edges are like rounded, like laser engraver is unable to produce sharp edges
@@mungo7136 laser engraving has much higher resolution than human hand
Go to sleep and leave the coke alone !.
7:18 I wouldnt say that lazer engraving isint art, someone still had to make the pattern that the laser engraves. Are you saying prints arent art? Are Digital artists who paint with a computer not artists? There is merit to saying its lesser in some way but it still is art.
why do you talk at low and high levels, is that a british thing?? Makes it tough to listen to...