Debate! Roman Catholic Trad Meltdown on Stream + Evangelical Debate - Uncreated Energies & Tradition

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  • Опубліковано 8 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 138

  • @MadebyJimbob
    @MadebyJimbob Рік тому +230

    Exposed: Jay got his masters at the Culinary Institute of America.

    • @Stevenmulraney
      @Stevenmulraney Рік тому +27

      Explains why the coffee takes so long. 😮

    • @cowboyschad5x778
      @cowboyschad5x778 Рік тому +35

      Let him cook!

    • @christianpethukov
      @christianpethukov Рік тому +13

      I read your comment before I got the context (the TradCath meltdown). At first I thought you were trying to say Jay slices and dices his opponents in a skillful manner. I'm a Catholic who enjoys and respects Dyer.

    • @zjeniya7prazdnikova
      @zjeniya7prazdnikova Рік тому +3

      😂😂👌

    • @marktstocksdale2327
      @marktstocksdale2327 Рік тому +6

      The C.I.A lol

  • @JayDyer
    @JayDyer  Рік тому +89

    Awesome Meltdown at 1:04:00

    • @wrecktitudemedia6514
      @wrecktitudemedia6514 Рік тому +16

      You rock Jay, always look forward to your debates bud. Much love and respect from Canada. I'm not that familiar with the differences are in theology so I really enjoy hearing you and others out on the concepts. Thanks for the content!

    • @TropicalGardeningCyprus
      @TropicalGardeningCyprus Рік тому +15

      🤣🤣🤣 that was gold

    • @rundas6081
      @rundas6081 Рік тому +4

      You're a life saver. Thanks Jay.

    • @RudyCarrera
      @RudyCarrera Рік тому +9

      This is why Trad Cats are trash. At least the ones online. Many mainline Catholics think these people are dweebs.

    • @cigler3299
      @cigler3299 Рік тому +5

      That dude was crazy.

  • @saint-jiub
    @saint-jiub Рік тому +101

    13:00 - RC: what's wrong with eucharistic adoration? + Trinity as a development
    23:05 - Lucky Charms leprechaun debating pope Agatho
    25:10 - ancient civilizations + word concept fallacies in scripture
    31:47 - Jay's journey + reasons for choosing a church (btw papalism=worship of authority)
    36:00 - How do we square there being only one church with grace existing outside the church & changing peoples lives?
    46:25 - How do we square liturgical practices with scriptures that seem to contradict it?(1 Cor. 14)
    56:27 - nail gun
    57:00 - Orthodoxy and the 2nd Amendment
    1:01:13 - how is miaphysitism wrong?
    1:03:55 - RC: triggered TradCat
    1:10:05 - natural virtues outside of church: nature vs grace distinction, law vs grace distinction, pagan virtues, sts ambrose and cyril on natural virtues
    1:19:28 - the doctrine of assurance in EO and how does it play into epistemic justification?
    1:22:59 - reckless ben cult infiltration
    1:24:00 - evolution and bk of genesis
    1:25:33 - origin of the term "Logoi"
    1:27:00 - the trinitarian order of deriving essence/generation of the Son and Spirit
    1:28:35 - how to square omniscience and Jesus praying to the Father in the garden?
    1:29:45 - reformed theology 'covenant of works': loss of image of god, total depravity, innability, monergism
    1:32:07 - convincing atheists, creation, and naturalist starting points
    1:43:35 - convincing protestants + dealing with new convert zeal
    1:46:10 - modal logic possible world argument/water h20 law of identity argument + flipping it onto evolutionists
    1:49:07 - why the geopolitical interest in eating ze bugz?
    1:51:43 - how to explain good & evil, true & false, to atheists?
    1:54:26 - polygamy
    1:57:37 - RC: Acts 17 and worshipping the unknown God? + word-referrent distinction
    -> 2:13:50, 2:15:00 - Vatican 2 says hindu's & muslims worship same God as RC (Vatican 2, Nostrae Aetate, paragraphs 2 & 3)
    2:16:15 - Theistic evolution in RC, corruption and death
    2:24:53 - rosary history
    2:25:25 - critique of john locke and classical liberalism
    2:27:30 - how to explain grace outside the church? -> st maximus, thallasium 13 or 15
    2:28:23 - how to debate a baptist
    2:29:08 - john macarthur = quasi calvinist self appointed heretic teacher
    2:29:35 - NLP
    2:31:00 - perrinialist: jews, muslim, christians all worship the same God
    2:38:32 - haunted house basement bro
    2:39:43 - is scotism a compromise between ADS vs E/E? also the eucharist and uncreated energies explained

  • @adoniplaitis4765
    @adoniplaitis4765 Рік тому +87

    Life hack:
    If you say Jay 100 times you automatically win the debate.

    • @Fray2221
      @Fray2221 6 місяців тому +3

      The name of a man is a numbing blow from which he never recovers.

  • @pablowentscobar
    @pablowentscobar Рік тому +97

    I'm sorry, I love that Jay is a savage. He's here to debate. I was in debate club for a couple years in high school, you're not there to fluff each others feelings. People have gotten so soft and easily offended. If you're a fluffy little tuft of lint you're going to blow away in the storm. Low T soyldiers.

    • @OrthoLou
      @OrthoLou Рік тому +1

      It baffles me that some Christians (Catholics, Protestants, and even some Orthobox) will praise St. Nicholas for punching a heretic in the face, but will turn into Mr. Rogers any time someone with a varying opinion shows a bit of aggression in a debate. The horror!

    • @kumarina
      @kumarina Рік тому +12

      A product of the current gynocentric society in which niceness is the main value

    • @pablowentscobar
      @pablowentscobar Рік тому +4

      @@kumarina Yup.

    • @aeternusromanus
      @aeternusromanus Рік тому +8

      Not nice = no Holy Spirit, people actually believe this

    • @shawnpatrick1877
      @shawnpatrick1877 Рік тому +14

      A lot of modern Christians would have rebuked Jesus Himself for not being nice because of the way he talked to pharisees. They would really get triggered when he started turning over tables and hitting people in the Temple with a whip.

  • @94Maximos
    @94Maximos Рік тому +35

    Let’s go!!! Theology and debate steams are back

  • @robertbecker1405
    @robertbecker1405 Рік тому +10

    As far as eucharistic adoration goes, practically speaking it really presupposes you are using unleavened bread, which, whatever your feelings are about it, is an innovation in and of itself.

  • @shiningdiamond5046
    @shiningdiamond5046 Рік тому +13

    1:05:40 Funny he said that because trent horn denies trinity is in the old testament same as Raymond brown

  • @LightningStriker1
    @LightningStriker1 Рік тому +13

    I'm glad you do refrain from anger. People are emotionally involved into their religion. They can easily show ignorance to things. Thank you brother for your content.

  • @SkullOfTheAbyss
    @SkullOfTheAbyss Рік тому +12

    Can you imagine your great-grandfather giggling during a serious discussion with another man?

    • @jacobfavret1729
      @jacobfavret1729 4 місяці тому +1

      Great comment bro, and giggling like that during a discussion about God no less …

  • @regetius1774
    @regetius1774 Рік тому +26

    Love your sense of humor!
    22:05 "condescending giggle"
    29:35 "look how impatient he is"

  • @michaels775
    @michaels775 Рік тому +5

    The voice of the Baptist/Presbyterian guy at 45 min or so reminded of Buffalo Bill, or that transformer women's MMA fighter.

  • @waitwaitwaitwaitamin
    @waitwaitwaitwaitamin Рік тому +16

    Masters in CIA what? man what a letdown I thought we were into KGB...

  • @darrylpeers
    @darrylpeers Рік тому +11

    That intro is absolutely quality! Wow, awesome.

  • @willh9104
    @willh9104 Рік тому +19

    This one was great! Thanks Jay. Good luck at your Cali event and God bless.

  • @voraciousvegetables
    @voraciousvegetables Рік тому +12

    What I would have wanted to say to the unknown god catholic guy - the statue to the unknown god was not a statue to Yaweh, it was a statue to a generic diety which they knew they were ignorant of. Their worship of that statue did not constitute worship of the Triune God. Their relationship to Yaweh was one of ignorance.

  • @Chud_Bud_Supreme
    @Chud_Bud_Supreme Рік тому +17

    I saw the title and started listening. I always like some good old fashioned IBS

  • @TheMhouk2
    @TheMhouk2 Рік тому +7

    some of the people that jump into these remind me of the public radio stations in Grand Theft Auto games.

    • @wilder11
      @wilder11 4 дні тому

      LMAO that's dead on the money.

  • @NJP9036
    @NJP9036 Рік тому +12

    23:05 Lucky Charms leprechaun debating pope Agatho. Thank you Jay.

    • @saint-jiub
      @saint-jiub Рік тому

      that is such a great timestamp, im gonna copy it, thank you!

  • @starrunner9611
    @starrunner9611 Рік тому +7

    Dig these open forums. Thanks Jay!

  • @Alex-xz8gz
    @Alex-xz8gz Рік тому +32

    Jay Jay Jay stop being being so fragile

  • @Magx451
    @Magx451 Рік тому +12

    Had a fun time on! (01:26:58)

  • @aeternusromanus
    @aeternusromanus Рік тому +10

    Hey Jay, it was cool to be on. Apologies for talking over you when you wanted to respond. Just so you know, since we have to use Twitter Spaces on our phones, we end up not hearing you while we're talking. There also seems to be a lag time that's responsible for everyone being silent for 10 seconds before they unmute - I think the spaces audio is a good few seconds behind, so I only unmuted at the last second. I didn't catch you saying my username despite the fact that I was ready to hop on. Maybe other people can confirm what I've noticed so the next time you do a live you'll know what's going on and it won't be as frustrating. Cheers 🎉

    • @damachinen
      @damachinen Рік тому +2

      Very reasonable.

    • @slowboywhiteboardv4
      @slowboywhiteboardv4 Рік тому +2

      This is true, I put the stream on the big TV and also use my phone to follow the chat and I have to mute the TV because it is so far from what's going on on my phone. I would assume Twitter has the same lag.

  • @ryanbeamish
    @ryanbeamish Рік тому +15

    Jay dyer has a M.A. in CIA 😂😂😂1:06:45 gotta put that in your bio

  • @davidcraig9540
    @davidcraig9540 Рік тому +10

    Blood sports was epic back in the day. Good and bad debates, but always entertaining

    • @slowboywhiteboardv4
      @slowboywhiteboardv4 Рік тому +2

      ​@@wearetheremnants1615 kino casino came back the other day, warski still acting like a braindead goon 😅

    • @Chud_Bud_Supreme
      @Chud_Bud_Supreme Рік тому +2

      The best Blood sports was when Mr. Metokur was involved

  • @zjeniya7prazdnikova
    @zjeniya7prazdnikova Рік тому +4

    Missed your debates!! My husband and I went out of town this weekend and it made the boring drive home go by. Hope you and Jamie have had a good weekend!!

  • @ivansince91
    @ivansince91 Рік тому +8

    Hilarious stream😂. Pure quality

  • @organic1776
    @organic1776 11 місяців тому +1

    Jay your book shelf game is on point

  • @TeaParty4Thugs
    @TeaParty4Thugs Рік тому +3

    My theory on the soymen is that they weren't good in sports or anything competitive, so they turned to something "certain," like theology. And the moment their "certainty" gets challenged, they feel insecure like they did getting pegged in the face with dodgeballs. Then they turn to piety because they think that can't be argued with.

  • @ryankelly5020
    @ryankelly5020 Рік тому +1

    42:00 (bookmarking where Jay explains regular vs infallible tradition)

  • @LeutherGreengager-ip1uw
    @LeutherGreengager-ip1uw Рік тому +1

    Thanks for championing the Truth without the triumphalism.

  • @DataBee744
    @DataBee744 Рік тому +12

    TradCat meowing today. Purr-fectly wonderful says cat woman

  • @czuw2967
    @czuw2967 Рік тому +3

    “TRENT HORN SSMMAAASHHEED YOU BRO!”
    Totally killed Jay, you could see it. (Sarc)

  • @SeraphimGoose
    @SeraphimGoose Рік тому +5

    30:20 Frodo impression coming through

  • @justanotherlikeyou
    @justanotherlikeyou Рік тому +4

    Someone really needs to create a meme showing Jay powering up his meaness ala super saiyan

  • @jedidiahmarsol7613
    @jedidiahmarsol7613 Рік тому +3

    Missed these streams. 👍

  • @henrik_worst_of_sinners
    @henrik_worst_of_sinners Рік тому +2

    The guy at 47 min sounded like R Grant Jones. The guy that reviews bibles on youtube.

  • @CyprusHot
    @CyprusHot Рік тому +3

    15:20 mind blowing and not in a good way…….. the RC’s argument is bizarre. Luke 24:27: And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

  • @sifu9683
    @sifu9683 Рік тому +4

    1:19:00 Even Cyrus the great, being a pagan, was anointed by God!

  • @creampuffwar4457
    @creampuffwar4457 Рік тому +4

    orthodoxy rightly places more importance on the education of the heart than education of the mind - Jay has a lot of work to do in that respect

    • @creampuffwar4457
      @creampuffwar4457 11 місяців тому +1

      @Desertfox21 Christ was mean? You may want to seriously rethink that view and ask yourself if it rises to the level of blasphemy. That’s the problem with a lot of non-cradle orthodox, like Jay, you have a partial education having read books and watched UA-cam videos, but where is the education of the nous? You bring your Baptist, Calvinist or Roman Catholic mind-set into orthodox Christianity and give orthodoxy a bad name - I stand by my comment

    • @creampuffwar4457
      @creampuffwar4457 11 місяців тому +1

      @Desertfox21 Jesus was never mean - not even „at times“ as you say, insisting on your blasphemy. And please don’t compare Jay with Jesus or other Saints- that’s also blasphemy. But as I say, humility, humbleness and a clean heart are things acquired through hard work and time; much more difficult than acquiring intellectual knowledge.

    • @creampuffwar4457
      @creampuffwar4457 11 місяців тому +1

      @Desertfox21 im with you on taking a hard line in substance against ecumenism, LGBTQ, woman’s ordination and all the other heretical craziness that is being spewed by some (thank god still very few) orthodox (cradle or non-cradle) - in fact I agree with most of Jay‘s theological views - what I take issue with is the manner in which he arrogantly, aggressively, haughty and impatiently barks and interrupts his callers - this is not a good sign, in fact a sure indicator that he is far from understanding with his nous (heart) what only his intellect has understood so far. And yes, you are comparing his anger with the resoluteness of Jesus and Saints in the face of heresies and blasphemy- in fact you persist in this despite having been alerted to your grave and blasphemic error. Within this short exchange you have insulted Jesus and the saints repeatedly. You will understand that in all kindness I will RESOLUTELY point this out to you. If you are a Christian and true orthodox you will be attentive to your own behaviour and self-reflect. Read this exchange, which you initiated, again in calmness and honesty and you will surely see your grave error.

    • @creampuffwar4457
      @creampuffwar4457 11 місяців тому

      @Desertfox21 you compared a seriously flawed UA-camr’s (Jay) conduct with Jesus’s and the saint’s behaviour - this comparison was used by you to create the illusion of an equivalence between those completely different, incomparable scenarios, even calling the behaviour of Jesus and our god-bearing and holy saints “mean”. You have been repeatedly alerted as to the gravity of such an erroneous and blasphemous comparison. You were asked to self reflect and think about it. And here you are doubling down. Well, I will continue to RESOLUTELY call you out on this - I’m just not going to get rude, like Jay.

    • @creampuffwar4457
      @creampuffwar4457 11 місяців тому

      @Desertfox21 this discussion has run its course

  • @tfunknationtown
    @tfunknationtown 4 місяці тому

    Jay. Record yourself saying unmute and set it to some dyerwave. That way you can play it back like a radio host.

  • @e.omonarchy8506
    @e.omonarchy8506 11 місяців тому

    I wasn't able to find the quote from St. Cyril to succensus about the uncreated energies that was mentioned in the end of the stream.

  • @Stevenmulraney
    @Stevenmulraney Рік тому +11

    2:53

  • @adoniplaitis4765
    @adoniplaitis4765 Рік тому +8

    Dyer is fire

  • @Pdstor
    @Pdstor Рік тому

    2:33:00 The Seventh Ecumenical Council opens by pronouncing all heretics as apostates, if I recall correctly. If an actively worshipping person is an apostate, the referent is not identical. It should also be stated that we don't sit in judgment of all particular Muslims or Jews and say "you're going to Hell, you're going to Hell, you're going to Hell ..." as that's not our job - we have a job enough watching out for our own salvation.

  • @HairyMunci
    @HairyMunci Рік тому +2

    The caller who inferred that Orthodox lay persons don’t have a perfect understanding of the Trinity is missing the point somewhat - the beauty of the Church is that by the participation in the Holy Mysteries - Baptism and Chrismation which open our souls to The Trinity and especially Holy Communion - we as laymen start our process of Theosis - Union with God. Just by partaking of the Divine Nature the Triune God reveals himself to us personally and gradually. God does not require theologians but the faithful - who gradually become theologians through Divine revelation.
    The Romans and other Heterodox simply can’t do this.

  • @boardbill5852
    @boardbill5852 Рік тому +4

    Hey Jay, do you think you could make a video rebutting Oneness Pentecostalism? Or Modalism in general. I have a few friends who have such views and would like to convert them.

    • @JayDyer
      @JayDyer  Рік тому +16

      See my many Trinity livestreams

    • @Judges.
      @Judges. Рік тому +7

      Sam Shamoun also has great videos on this.

    • @slowboywhiteboardv4
      @slowboywhiteboardv4 Рік тому +2

      ​​@@JayDyer We don't want intellectual critique we want clips and goofing on goobers😅

  • @Judges.
    @Judges. Рік тому

    If our learning is flawed, how can we have knowledge of God? This isn't really an argument it's a question.

  • @glenstreamer5292
    @glenstreamer5292 Рік тому

    God bless 🙏☦️. Appreciate your work. I hope and am sure you have a blessing from an Orthodox Priest to spread the Word online?
    Without that the attacks from Satan will be too great. You need the help of God.
    Praying for you 🙏☦️

  • @Judges.
    @Judges. Рік тому +1

    1:08:21 Joseph Sciambra

  • @cynics.
    @cynics. Рік тому +5

    1:04:00 chubby non italics from tennessee try to speak latin challenge (🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢)

  • @TracyMillerStudioGallery
    @TracyMillerStudioGallery Рік тому +1

    Aren’t you coming to MN soon?

  • @Ac-ip5hd
    @Ac-ip5hd Рік тому +5

    Is this today’s Twitter stream?

  • @FreshPelmeni
    @FreshPelmeni Рік тому

    It seems to me that the suggestion that you can divorce the assumption behind the Biblical text from the explicit writing of the text is only possible if you assume a natural theology/peripatetic axiom view of epistemology. In other words, words aren't understood paradigmatically but as if they were pointing to certain obvious, self-evident axioms. "Words just have obvious meanings, bro".
    What silliness.

  • @cortezreport139
    @cortezreport139 Рік тому

    I definitely don't agree with the caller's misinterpretation of pagans/heretics worshipping the same god as the triune god 2:00:00 but I think he was interpreting Acts 17 that whether its knowingly or unknowningly or willingly or unwillingy everyone submits to the one true god of the universe (sort of how an atheist can try to reject god's presence but can never ultimately do it) & he believes that's what Vatican II says but no, Paul was using irony saying that the god the pagans are unaware of is actually the real god

  • @andymontes3980
    @andymontes3980 7 місяців тому

    1:57:49 I know we are supposed to be patient with people on these things, but this guy frustrated me over this easy point

  • @hrd708
    @hrd708 Рік тому

    where i can found reference of St. Cyril on eucharist? i searched many sites and can't find it

  • @PrOBOY251
    @PrOBOY251 Рік тому

    Tim never lets his callers speak...

  • @lukeiify
    @lukeiify 9 місяців тому

    30:00 IT’S NOT VIRTUOUS 😭😭

  • @MrCharlieC23
    @MrCharlieC23 Рік тому +5

    Rise of The Mut(e)ants

  • @drytool
    @drytool Рік тому

    Wouldn't God know that slavery was always wrong?

  • @kalash2874
    @kalash2874 Рік тому +2

    Bro i heard that CIA degree is hard to get. Congrats 🎓

  • @christianskey4915
    @christianskey4915 Рік тому

    Why hello there 😂

  • @DisgruntledDocs
    @DisgruntledDocs Рік тому +3

    Oooga = trinity lol 😂😂😂😂

  • @kallistikallisti7958
    @kallistikallisti7958 Рік тому

    its my name and i dont want you to say it - simple

  • @fx3391
    @fx3391 Рік тому +5

    based sorcerer kgb druglord

  • @jeremyknight492
    @jeremyknight492 Рік тому +2

    I think most of those are bots!😂🤣😜

  • @fumples4080
    @fumples4080 Рік тому

    So Ted Kazynski died, mad.

  • @AdamPaulTalks
    @AdamPaulTalks 10 місяців тому

    lol soymale 😂

  • @topercaker2646
    @topercaker2646 Рік тому

    I'm a RC but I don't understand, surely there are Catholic scholars that agree that the Trinity is present in the OT as well?
    Edit: Also, "your Church teaches that the Muslims and Christians believe in the same God". That was just the opinion of the Pope while he wasn't speaking ex-cathedra, bishops like Schneider disagree with him.

    • @topercaker2646
      @topercaker2646 Рік тому

      @@LadyMaria Thanks, I had no idea. But then why can Bishops like Schneider just disagree with official teaching?

    • @SILLY_BILLY_777
      @SILLY_BILLY_777 10 місяців тому +3

      ​​@@topercaker2646 because the roman catholic system is broken, and people that disagree with some things are allowed to stay as long as they recognize the pope as the supreme god-king above all
      You should look up the eastern catholic churches, they're the best example of this

  • @daddada2984
    @daddada2984 8 місяців тому

    Stay away from catholicism.
    Stay away from idolatry & fanaticism of men.
    Follow Jesus, become a Christian.
    Identify yourself with Jesus Christ not with institutions of fallible men.

    • @ICXCNIKA33
      @ICXCNIKA33 5 місяців тому

      What do you have to say about the institution that Jesus established (The Church) and the sacraments he gave like baptism and the communion? Also what is the book of Acts about and what institutions did Paul write to in the Bible?

    • @daddada2984
      @daddada2984 5 місяців тому

      @@ICXCNIKA33 Baptist to adults good... Catholicism infant baptism is useless, only money making & ritualistic..
      Sacrament of eucharist, not literally blood & flesh.. remembering the sacrifice of Jesus..
      Giving worship & glory to God..
      Communion? What do you mean? To a priest? No, we communion to our fellowship with issues & with God..
      Pauls given institutions is good, giving order in church, but not putting someone in pedestal & making him infallible..

    • @ICXCNIKA33
      @ICXCNIKA33 5 місяців тому

      @@daddada2984to who’s authority are you appealing to? The bible seems to disagree when it calls for baptism of whole households and the same God called for children to be circumcised but you draw the line at baptism.Jesus seems to say that the bread and wine are literal, and Paul to his letter to the Corinthians seems to talking about literal Eucharist because they were dying taking it out of good moral standing

  • @silvesteinrmartin
    @silvesteinrmartin Рік тому +8

    thank you for your great insight and you explained the whole thing on the trinity so well. the guy you talked to was so annoying. god help him.

  • @JosePena-if2xh
    @JosePena-if2xh Рік тому +1

    Jay dropping that mathafukin Knowledge Son! Jay is money baby!!