Need to Know the Details!!! Scion xD 1.8 P0420 P1604.
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
- Air Intake/Induction Cleaning! • Abs/Track Control DENI...
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Air Intake/Induction Cleaning! ua-cam.com/video/syGN1EzBREs/v-deo.html 🚨🚨🚨
i learned something,,dont buy a modern car. they cost more, they break before 100k..direct injection is no good. all the tech, compared to a non tech car, is the problem. thanks epa,gereenies, for costing the earth millions in plastic electronic bs waste.. its new,,but that doesnt mean its good.. it get 6lt 100,,but,,you will replace everything around the engine,even bits in it, before 100k.. technology sucks.. millions spent, for what..[ & sent to ukraine while people here starve..]..my 10c..
Good stuff. What would you say it's the main problems with this cars in your experience as far as repairs go?
Ray, regarding charging something for your time, knowledge is priceless. Going to tell you a little story. Back in the time of the early locomotives there was an boiler designer that retired from the railroad that he worked for with 20 years under his belt. He had a lifetime pass for the RR and was on a trip across the country when the locomotive broke down. As it happened, the engine was one that he designed and he went to the front and spoke to the Engineer. He asked for a hammer and then climbed up on the engine and smacked it twice and it started right up again. When he got home, he sent in an invoice to his former employer for 1,000.00 He got a phone call from the President saying, "Hey Jack, what is this invoice for? I heard you only smacked the boiler with a hammer." Jack replied, "Oh, the smacks on the boiler were free. Knowing WHERE to smack the boiler is $1,000.00"
A similar anecdote is that the customer isn't paying for the minutes, they are paying for the years and hours of study, practice and expertise that allow the job to be done in minutes. This diagnostic could have taken a lamen shade tree mechanic like me days of scouring forums, trying out new keywords in searches, and asking around to figure out, if I even could get there.
PRICELESS!
👌🏻Classic story 😆
Cute parable.
Ray, you are selling your time. Don't feel bad charging this guy. You are absolutely correct in making sure you get ALL the details so you can make a correct diagnosis. Right on Ray!!
Wholeheartedly agree. As the saying goes, "Time is money". Customer needed answers; you spent time obtaining those answers and deserve compensation for your efforts. On a side note, I hope no one is able to obtain the Social Security Number from the dog tag.
Well we know who you are...but we didn't tell Ray.............
At the same time you are also creating bad publicity for your business. Sometimes you need to eat a charge to create a customer. It also depends on if the customer is a Karen or not too.
Then again the mechanic/garage I go to knows me and I had plenty of hours long diagnoses go uncharged because from what the manager told be when I asked why. He gave the spill in the first paragraph I posted.
I own a Boat repair shop for 33 years now and my son owns a European auto repair shop that we share, and people don't realize how expensive the diagnostic scan tools are. They are into the tens of thousands of dollars with updates not to mention the training and experience to operate them. So, any time you have to connect up to one (even for a few minutes) to find your problem someone has to pay! Otherwise, the tech can't stay current with his equipment and training. Cars today can't be fixed with just a box of hand tools. Thank you for the videos, Ray you are my kind tech, this is the kind of service my shop provides, and it has kept my reviews on top all these years
In due time I will be a certified mechanic all because of Ray. Love your channel and humor.
Go Aviation
I worked for 17 years as a tech, and then for 5 years as a Service Advisor. The needed information should have been collected well before you even knew that the vehicle was in the parking lot, and the S/A was negligent in his job when he/she didn’t ask the right questions. Maybe one of the requirements to apply for employment as a S/A should be to spend a few years in the shop.
Years ago when I wrenched for a living I worked at a new car dealership's shop with a service advisor who occasionally wrote a ticket with "sounds funny" as the only description of the customer's complaint. It took almost three months before he finally understood that maybe he was in the wrong job. The fact that he was the sales manager's son might have had something to do with how long he lasted.
I totally agree, you need to be paid for your time. If I ever ask for pro help, I leave a note on the drivers seat with a clear description of what I've already done. Never assume the service writer you spoke with will take the time to record and relay what you said to the tech who actually works on the car.
Ray, as I learned years ago.
COMMUNICATION IS THE KEY to life.
As a retired shop supervisor. I always told my Techs that their time is the customer's money. No matter what they did. So Ray, if you touch it, you're entitled to get paid for it.
Knowledge is worth money, some people don't understand that.
Hey your time and knowledge are worth what you charge, you performed a service and hopefully the person learned a valuable lesson.
You sound like my son-in-law Like you said I diagnose the problem. That is worth something. After he said and explained I learned a great deal about the more you can tell your technician your technician the cheaper the bill will be. Instead of throwing parts at it and wasting time. Job well done Ray!
Your honest and fair. Charging for your time is not a crime. Free work doesn't pay the bills or feed the family.
I'm not a professional mechanic. But, I have a good friend who is. I've heard stories of people thinking he is stupid or that any person could do what he does. Yet, if you know the guy, he's extremely intelligent (both on cars and many other topics). You, sir, are of that caliber from what I can tell! I definitely think your time is worth something and its fair that you charge something.
Hey, im a Toyota Technician. P1604 is always set when a battery is replaced and the vehicle is turned over before the 10 second throttle body self check sweep setting the 1604. 1604 is stored in almost every single toyota ive scanned. We always leave it due to it be stored so often. P1604 NEVER requests the MIL light on.
I usually always ignore P1604.
Back in my day, all a mechanic needed was a good set of tools and some brains...or maybe not. Now, you have to be a computer technician with a good set of tools in blue boxes.
I had a catalytic convertor effeciency low code once in my toyota... I fixed it by putting exhaust sealant between the center pipe and rear muffler as I'd just fitted a new muffler and the replacement wasn't a tight fit on the center pipe and was leaking exhaust gas.
I'm relaying to you the best compliment I ever got because you deserve it. I was told I was the best troubleshooter they ever knew. I am now giving you that same compliment. You are an excellent troubleshooter. Yours is in automotive and mine was in electronics. I believe you could also be a great electronic tech. Keep up the honest work.
A good service advisor asks questions the customer. A great service advisor asks WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE WHEN, WHY AND HOW.
I am constantly amazed with your scope of experience , knowledge, and troubleshooting skills. To say nothing of your ability to do the best job you can and not hose over the customer with unnecessary repairs. Jeez I wish you worked somewhere around OKC!
Ray, I agree 100%, I always ask to talk directly to the mechanic working on my car to let him know personally what the issues are. Sometimes it gets lost in translation from the customer to the shop's service advisor and then to the poor smuck working on the car. also, some shops service advisors are just young kids or just salespeople trying to make a commission. Good video and yes you need to be paid for your time or to do a diag, no question about that.
I sympathize with your feelings on customer participation. I had the same issue when doing computer support. I would get tickets all the time where I'd contact the user within 15 minutes of when they'd put in the ticket, and they would be away from their desk, and then not respond to me for three or four days. I got so sick of it, in fact, that I transitioned into being a sysadmin on 2010. It's like a car mechanic becoming an aircraft mechanic because he got sick of people.
This Age of Moronism isn't helping anything get better , just lots more frustrating....
"I can't open an Excel" when what they mean is "Program A is trying to open a macro-enabled spreadsheet, from an untrusted location, and when it fails, Program A opens a spreadsheet with instruction on how to enable macros for a 10 year-old version of Excel"
This is why I always ask people to reproduce their problem in front of me before I even try fixing it.
@@BleuSquid When I was doing that kind of work I would do the same! Show me the problem that you're having please?
@@BleuSquid Yeah, I did too, when they were available. It's never good when I call or stop by someone's desk after they sent in a ticket, and they're gone, and don't respond for 3-4 days.
@@BleuSquid Or the old:
Me: What's the problem?
Them: It's not working.
Me: What's not working?
Them: 🙄the laptop.
Me: What specifically is not working?
Them: The Internet.
Me: Yeah, Facebook is offline.
Them: Oh.
That is literally the conversation I had with a teacher who held a Masters in Educational Development. Deity pity the poor kids.
Ray, the way you explain things is just amazing. Your thoroughness and attention to detail make you a cut above all other technicians, and the time you spend diagnosing an issue is certainly billable time. I wish you and your family well, and may you have continued success in growing your business.
As someone who works on my own cars, I appreciate the time taken to diagnose problems. It feels like no work is being done, then all the sudden.. BAM! Now the "work" of fixing it begins.
You did a great job. You are right communication is what lacks in people always have all your information ready for the mechanic. So that it is easier for the technician.
Your time is always of value.
420 code can be a crack in the flex pipes between the cats as well.
You did well and talking to the customer is good way hopefully figure some things out.
Sometimes letting them talk as well will lead you to an issue or place to start. Just be safe.
Worth every penny. Your time and expertise are valuable.
I have worked in the automotive field for 55 years. People or customers will not tell you the truth about their cars. Some will flat out lie to you. You can tell if somebody or the owner or another mechanic has worked on the car before you most of the time. So job well done.👍
421k subs with 558 videos. Awesome job Ray!
Thx Tim!
@@RainmanRaysRepairs anytime, sir. Well deserved and look forward to you hitting 1 million.
@@timtampa I say 3-4 months and he will be there.
You did the right thing. Some other shops would have taken advantage of the situation. You may have made a customer for life because of your honesty
Details are extremely important even the smallest of details prove to be the most important. This applies to everything not just automobiles.
You have a great work ethic, I would much prefer a mechanic to be asking me questions rather than ignore me and tell me what's wrong with it like I don't know anything.
Really appreciate your honesty and candor with your customers, gotta feed your family and pay for your toolset so ya gotta charge for your time , good job 👍
Nothing like sitting outside my shop on a nice 1 hour break with a brand new Rays repair video first thing on my page. Thank you for sharing these videos with us 😄
I just got recommended to your channel and I’m glad. Keep up the good work and awesome videos ray!
I'm glad you put in the video the chime was the car because the whole time I was thinking phones around me were going off
Thanks for including the DTC in video title.
If I have learned anything from watching your videos, and those of several others, it is the value of Alldata info. I dealt with a problem on my '96 Jeep XJ and spent the $20 for access for a month. It didn't take me a month but the wiring diagrams I got access to made the difference. Great tool. Thanks for turning me on to it.
that's all it costs? I've had so many well worn vehicles it's ridiculous, almost all of which had a light on constantly (so constant i bought MYSELF a code checker). and being in PA means that a lot of Garages, private and otherwise, won't even touch the mechanical aspects if they see a flake of rust anywhere. I could have used it trying to get a Montero Sport diagnosed. i DID get the "Chrysler key trick" from the brief freebie section that lets you get the codes without the scan tool.
You did the right thing ray. I always enjoy your post’s. Thank you for sharing 😊
Greetings from Ireland. Your videos are very enjoyable for me to watch, from 1 diagnostic technician to another I love your approach and how you articulate your reasoning. People watching can appreciate the complexity the job entails and what someone who knows what there doing looks like. I'm opening a shop next month and I'd love to see how many hours you bill the customer for these amazing jobs, hourly or agreement?. Keep doing what your doing man
I wish I could like this twice! Thanks Ray!
You are 100% right about charging for just diagnosing things. Your time isn't free. If that's all you do is diagnose problems and not charge you won't make money to keep the shop open or pay your own bills.
Long range troubleshooting:
2013 F-150, 5.0 Flex Fuel.
Dropped into limp mode.
Brief wrench symbol, then the display above odometer displaying just random garbage and speedometer went to 0.
No warning lights.
Managed to get to a nearby shop that put a code reader on and it had over 30 codes all saying "ECM A invalid." along with a few low voltage codes (seem to be fed by ECM A) and mno signal from driveshaft speed sensor.
Shut down... let it sit 10 min
Unfortuantely, this shop doesn't do much beyond oil changes and tires.
All codes cleared themselves. Truck drove fine the rest of the day.
The drop to limp mode and instrument cluster indication has 3 times happened before.
This is the first time we caught the codes.
Has had the fuel pump fuse issue (service bulletin) and the fuse is repaired and relocated.
Awesome I spent my life troubleshooting electrical problems in industry. Ray has "it"...most don't.
You are correct sir, it is a talent, and most don't possess it. Ray does indeed. I worked 40 years as Instrument technician in a large chemical plant, now retired.
Just learned Air Intake/Induction Cleaning! yhanks ray!
Every Tech in the repair business needs information / details.
A mountain of knowledge and detail Ray .Well done
Lol Thanks for the heads up because me and Wife and the kids kept checking your Facebook to see who was FaceTime in you got us
This is the 2ZR 1.8 out of the Vibe/Matrix & Corolla
Intake plenum vacuum leaks are very common, as is restricted injectors causing lean codes/hard starting
Hey Ray, the start ability malfunction for toyotas( scion, lexus) usually is when the battery is changed just the ecu's take a second to re communicate with each other. Characterized by starting after disconnecting the battery or changing the battery and then the engine cuts out after a couple of seconds i.e. stalling
My new (to me) 2011 Xd had this very code.
P1604
Batttery is a 7 yr old Duralast gold and was a mess with deposits on top.
But it tests fine, and the charger diagnostics put it down to trickle charge after 5 minutes.
thanks for "chime is the car", I was pausing and returning a couple of times just to make sure
A good technician will do all that you do. Some do not go as far as I have seen you do. That’s why it is IMPORTANT to have a good quality Tech.
3 guys tied for first! Congratulations!
Hey you did something like you said you diagnosed it normally a diagnosed with running $55 anywhere else around here $85 but you probably charge them less and you saved him a whole lot of money by checking out and getting details you're absolutely right keep making your awesome videos we're all learning
You're not charging for your time, you're charging for your ability to diagnose. 👍👍
Hey Ray, past yota tech, that P1604 code is a big nothing burger most of the time. Brand new ones will come with that stored from when the guys at shipping do final checks. They take a certain fuse out during shipping to kill the power to the radio and things to prevent damage during shipping(I assume), techs are supposed to go in there and clear that code during the PDI, but don't. Also, if after you clear it and it comes back, look at MIL request data pid on your scan tool, you'll see even with that code stored, no CEL will be requested. Hope, this helps. 👍👍
Yup. I swear I see p1604 in 75% of the health checks I run. It just pops up because it feels like it, and you're right it doesn't command the CEL on. I always clear the codes during the PDI. Especially now because if the D/C cut fuse isn't already installed you get electrontic parking brake codes, pre collision and a whole host of other codes. Makes me sad when I get a swap check and see if the PDI was done correctly and I still find a long list of codes.
thankyou Ray,have a great week,,👌👌
Got a p0420. Replaced plugs,wires,mass a/f, cat, pcv, b1s2 sensor. Car is 1 owner always serviced at Toyota. Light wont go away. My own diagnosis is a bad fuel injector on #3 on a 3.0 v6. It was the only plug that was suspect.
You used your professional time and experience. That's the most valuable ;-)
The point Ray, customers have to PAY for your knowledge, customers do not have the tools, the experience, the knowledge, that is WHAT a customer pays for; not all jobs require a fix or work done on the car, BUT you MUST pay for the solution to the problem, what ever that solution is. Knowledge is Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great videos. You are a better teacher than the auto shop teachers that I had in high school
You're time is entirely worth being paid. You are the best!
Ray, thanks for getting into the details! One of your best videos!
I've got a fun Scion issue if ever you want to figure it out. My Scion likes to throw a P0307 code and turn off Traction Control. It usually only happens when it's wet out. P0307 is a misfire detected on cylinder 7... of my 4 cylinder...
Ray, I am slow to this video, but…(big BUT), you are a quality technician. As a person who has worked in the industry and several shops, you do what is what is correct for the situation. Diagnose, review, contact customer, explain and repair. Sometimes they say yes other times they cannot, or 😢 will not approve the repairs. However, you are performing the work. Approved or not, you brought knowledge to the table, and that is YOUR, experience and expertise! Continue to take care of those “seasoned,” citizens, as well as, those who don’t communicate…🙄. In the end, always get paid for that expertise!!! 👍👍👍👍👍👍Enjoy what you are doing!
For repairs that I can not do myself; I ALWAYS give the shop a written (actually typed) letter explaining all the details.
BUT that only helps if the mechanic is responsible enough to read it.
Example; Once had pinion seal go bad. Did not want to change that myself. So took to local mechanic.
My truck has an aftermarket diff cover with drain and fill holes.
Diff cover manufacture's instructions say for my model truck do NOT use the cover's fill hole; use the stock fill hole in diff.
Gave copy of those instructions to mechanic.
He threw the instructions out, never read them, overfilled the diff, caused the axle seals to leak, and contaminated trucks rears brakes.
Many memories in that old car!
All really great points Ray.
Always enjoy your videos and upbeat attitude!
my battery checker checks battery for all type AGM GEL Std. it will check cranking and charging of alternator , with long cable so you start and stop car and rev it as commanded 4 complete tests, slick, not just static readings
I ran a number of fuel additives to clean my engine and it threw codes, ran rough, had misfires, and then straightened up. The engine ran like new after all of the carbon cleared out.
this is why I ask as many questions as possible before working on a vehicle when someone asks me to work on it..... I am literally asking what is it doing, do you notice any other symptoms, and when did the problem start..... any information I can get before starting work makes my work so much easier
Assuming the customer actually noticed those things or think they should have due to you asking about them.
Having the customer list of a bunch of stuff isn't always helpful. It can lead you in the wrong direction.
@@Cheepchipsable true, but most of the time for me it doesn't I look into specificity.....
I keep a log book with every maintenance recorded; If I need a mechanic, I can hand over the entire story with dates, miles, and additional commentary.
Haven't needed a mechanic for anything on my ride for 180K miles, but the day draws ever closer.
What car do you have?
@@danjones3402 same one as in the video, actually. But without the issues. :)
Those quickie lube places upsell fuel system cleaning routinely. They do often get a cut of upsold services.
yep express oil did one of those cleanings to my 1995 jeep grand cherokee jeep. It messed up the code system bad, I had like 8 codes, I had to have them cleared once I did that I was ok. So I am not shocked. The scion xd I have one that is a 2013, looks just like that one and I got 2 tpms tire sensors that are bad lol. I just let that light stay on.
It's crazy that you have to almost beat the truth out of some customers.
That was a very frustrating aspect of being in the automotive field.
Just never understood.
Great Video Ray.
Have a great day.
The customer wasn't to know that running out of fuel or some other repair shop action might cause a check engine light.
If you have a vacuum leak it can trigger 0420. Also, you can space the rear O2 but not commercially you can't.
The weekend repair vlog, nice.
I like your videos thank you for doing them I know it takes a lot of time to do them and I like when you tell how many hours they say it’s takes so some of the jobs you do I wish you tell more more times on jobs Thanks again
It's like going to the doctors. You give them information of symptoms, feelings (sensory), etc no matter how minor or how inconsequential it may seem. Make a list on paper, no matter how long it is. Some people get 'white coat syndrome' and panic... so writing it down and putting in your pocket to hand the doc is key. That gives them someplace to start rather than "I'm not feeling well" and hiding information and losing time. I have a buddy that said to me "Yeah, but I'm paying them to figure out what's wrong, I'm not doing their job for them." Told him he's an idiot and moved on in the convo. ROFL.
And consider... using patient portals to begin doctor visits expedites data sorting and collecting, whether in-office or online and I hope to see it more. I like portals for this use. I actually feel sorry for doctors needing to get it right in, what, 15 minutes? I know the medical assistant's job is to also help direct the doctor's diagnosis by pre-collating patient symptoms in the exam room. The doctor then might refresh what diagnostic charts he needs like Ray does.
What Ray does and what the doc does aren't that different. and, HELL YES, DIAGNOSTICS IS A CUSTOMER EXPENSE.
I get that some outfits prefer to do projects completely. They don't want to starkly declare your trouble code means you need a new mass air flow sensor because the cable might just be open/shorted/intermittent.... But car code writters ARE ever working on self diagnosing systems. AND THEY ARE A CLEVER SORT.
It is always good customer relations to say: "WE WILL CHARGE YOU TO DIAGNOSE REGARDLESS ON ANY WORK PERMORMED."
And certain work/diagnosis is iterative. If there are MULTIPLE failures associated then they need to be knocked down in order. Each completion is a starting point for the next.
As someone who works in physiotherapy and rehab you'd be amazed how often this happens. If Someone comes in with back or lower body pain we have a whole checklist of questions we go through, the first always being have you ever had a spinal injury? They always say no so you treat accordingly then without doubt there will will always be a comment halfway through during conversation like, I had an accident and damaged my spine and had a disc removed or bulged or something. It's infuriating as you can do further damage due to the treatments being very different for that situation
@@tomtke7351 , dont forget, our cars need that, nowadays. Old cars are better.
Like the old joke!!!! Takes car to garage tells technician problem technician goes gets hammer and gently hits a spot on motor Its now's run like a new engine. Hands the bill to owner $300.00 What!!!! says the car owner it was only a one minute repair $300. for one minute. The technician reply's $5.00 for the hit and $295,00 to know where to hit.
@@yzaw4411 Truly a classic.
Keep up the good work Ray.. From Malaysia 🇲🇾
Ty Ray for the auto repair lesson
Conversely, you can give the dealership "service advisor" all the details in the world, having a good idea of the problem. The "service advisor" gives the info to the "tech", and says it's a history code. Said code is a current code (I have a decent scan tool, Autel ML629), code P0449. A little back-story: I decided to get a preliminary opinion from an independent mechanic first, gave him the details and his diag corroborated my thoughts: a bad canister and purge valve. This is a 2011 Hyundai with the Theta II 2.4L that had the problems with bottom-end noise and eventual grenading of the engine, due to manufacturing defect. It was one of those things that the mechanic felt it would be in my best interest to take it to the dealership to have them honor the settlement stuff. Props to the independent mechanic for not charging a diag fee (btw, this guy is very reputable in my area). Flash forward: not only did said "tech" not fix my car and only cleared the codes, but they also pretty much glossed over the engine issue settlement and said it was taken care of by the ECU flash recall a few years ago now. Lo and behold: after about a 30-mile drive, the MIL comes right back on, same code. I'm about to the point where I'm going to replace these things myself (well, I would if I didn't have the joint problems I have now). Also: I've been driving this car around for the better part of 8 years without any discernable engine problems, but I've been keeping her on a strict oil change and filter change schedule (Mobil EP 5w30 and Fram Ultra filter), so maybe this has been helping so far. We need more awesome techs like you in the field, who can actually do in-depth diags and fix the problem, instead of BS'ing around and just resetting the MIL.....
Nice work and at the end your totally correct👍
I used to take my vehicles that were still under warranty to the furd stealership with a full diagnosis and they still got it wrong... with my f 1 fity I even told them what it did, what I traced it too and why the part was bad. Eventually they would fix it but twice I had to go multiple times because they didn't believe me, guessed at what was wrong even though the bad part was still on the truck. I finally figured out I was giving them too much info, they weren't doing well with over 10 words.
Should have tried drawing a picture with crayons (not too many colors).
Thank you for making this
Nobody should work for free. I’m also against giving discounts because I’ve seen shops go out of business, admitting they where always trying to be the nice guy/gal and gave too many price breaks to customers.
I cant stand the cheap bast*rds thet get diagnosis then fix nothing.Does he even get labor for diag ? Seems unfair.
I think it would only be worth it if they are, or become, returning customers .
They were always trying, where is the dog..
Yeah discounts like that or free work is a no no and it just invites the people that don't want to pay for anything and brings them and there friends out of the woodwork @Dave Osbun
@@CatRPlrC16 that is a great point I have made returning customers doing that by giving first few services for a discount
You're all right in my book!
Never feel guilty to charge for your knowledge and time--both are valuable. And if it's not you, it may be someone else less scrupulous.
I don't know how I got into watching your videos. I'm something of a mechanic. I worked at a Audi dealer as aC mechanic. They were going to send me to school. But, I got out of it an went into trucking. What I'm trying to say is, you are absolutely right to charge something for your time. But, I love your videos I continue to learn from you. Keep it up bro!!👍
The first video of Ray's I saw had the thumbnail with forbidden milkshake. Showed up randomly of my feed and clicked on it. Think it was the one where the customer had just bought the car.
@@TheCorpsehatch He had two videos with that sloshy milkshake. My first one was the one where he was still working at the Stealership and the rain had washed away much of the evidence leaving the engine looking nice and shiny.
😂😂😂👍I like that the Stealership!!
... "displeases me greatly" ... such niceness
That was very informative. Thanks!
Been there, done that. I always told customer minimum 1 hour charge that could be put towards the repair if the diagnosis was quick. I hated it when people brought in stuff and said "it just quit working". That really doesn't help, I need to know what was going on just before it quit working or whatever.
My late father always maintained " IF YOU WORK OR DO JOBS FOR NOTHING. YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE A JOB.
1 of the things I have learned from you and Eric O is never to clear the codes if I take car to shop. You need it to find out what going on.
Some tools allow you to record the codes before deleting them.
Brother Ray, knowing the details is the entire story. I once had a call for a copier that was supposedly jamming. The machine log verified the concern. Everything looked normal, after 50 copies no jamming. Asked some more people about it, they didn't know. Ran another 50, no jamming. Ready to leave, had about 100 or so copies in the trash. Someone came out and took all of the copies out of the trash. Asked what the ????? are you doing. Reply was any paper in the trash that has a blank side gets reused in the copier. This includes junk mail etc. No wonder it jams.
Ha ha ha I figured they were holding something back. Gotta love it!!!
Another fine diagnostic session~!
I went to a quickie lube once, after all the hard sell additional services, I told them I don’t want them to paint the car, just change the oil. Never went back to a quickie lube since.