As a US Army 13F Forward Observer I was challenged by a Infantry M249 SAW gunner what my primary weapon was. He was making fun of my M16A2 rifle. I told him my primary weapon was a battalion of 155mm self-propelled howitzers. That took him aback, "whoa." I just smiled. In retrospect I wish I'd kept a log of the fire missions I called like a sniper's log. I can't really say how many rounds but I guess it would be in the low hundreds.
With all respect, Mavics, Yeah, DJI Mavics, made your role obsolete. The whole video is obsolete. I mean that yeah, you can use forward observers agains some middle age armies and so on but there is no way forward observers can keep up with drones observation. You shows a remote observation equipment here, that's cool. How many FPV drones needs to take out that observation point? And so on. No doubt that is an interesting part of eequipment, but it slightly outdated for any intense combat operations.
@@pupkinson8914 how many drones do you need to observe a area for 72 hours. Try to use a drone with out having any signals. that tells the enemy that you are observing them.
nobody ever talks about us FO, that's kinda refreshing. 414th battalion of the IDF. we tested the Hattorix in 2018 and then it entered service, amazing piece of gear, extremely useful, saved me and my team's lives one time from an ATGM impact.
Mils don’t mean anything to CAS. Aircraft use Degrees Magnetic. You can send mils, but now you’re making the pilot do math further extending the kill chain.
Some Soviet units actually had target practice shooting at targets looking like eldledare (Swedish forward observers) back during the cold war So yes, they are a priority target My guess is that drone warfare soon enough will change everything about how that we think about forward observation
1- tie 2 of them together to triangulate to target 2- issue them with decoy units to draw fire away from the real unit once general are of observer is known 3- allow it to mount night vision for all day night use
Hi Mat, you are correct on the high value we place on our Observation Officers. I was many years ago in 3 Para detailed to pick up our FO that was stranded on Mt. Olympus for a few days and nights and now suffering from frost bite. Great blokes who just got on with the job. The “drop short” boys couldn’t do without them and the K1W1 gunners proved that in Viet Nam. Ten years later we met up on a parade ground in New Zealand. Once a Para, always a Para. Cheers mate. Harera
I agree with your point about a fist or any other form of observation team being important in a battle field, the amount of times my team and i have been have had our bacon saved
anyone looking for observers, if they have the best kit, can look for thermals. if the spotter is not in POV of anything and some distance, i think a system like this doesnt generate much heat - not as much as meatbags like us do, anyway, so it should add quite a bit of security. and thermal masking of such a small device doesnt seem to be too hard
At the pace of change, you have to wonder how long it will take for this technology to enter other areas of the food chain. Suspect that many of these features were originally part of aircraft targeting systems. PS - Appreciate your brief on the gear and usage!
Glad to see your still trucking along Matt another great video look forward to the next one. it's funny to really see the age in mail call when gunny go's to demonstrate weapons its almost funny to see all the boys wearing the old school woodland. Still think it looked better more professional with the old school BDUs.
They will be looking for you or Retrans teams, but no one wants to talk about commo teams or comms as it "too boring". Its too boring until you cant talk to anyone.
My father in law was a forward artillery observer in early Korea during Pusan Perimeter He was very vulnerable. He survived the war without the modern kit you show. But all of his replacement observers were killed. All of his kids are high IQ and I am sure that his survival is due to his intelligence and avoiding obvious places or moving regularly so he survived.
Also the direction is 11-80. On The us 6400 mils circle. Fun fact the Russians (and Finns and Ukrainans) use a 6000 mill cirlce. (Thank you for amazing content and happy new year wishes an forward observer from Finland where its currently -31°c ❄️
As thermal imaging is close to becoming the feature any flagship smartphone released next year will have, such remote controlled systems will be necessary to keep forward observers alive for more than the first strike they call in. In all honesty though, the war in Ukraine shows, that a commercial quad-copter with a commercial thermal imager for a kit-price of 2000 bucks proves very effective as a remote controlled forward observer, too, especially against formerly hidden positions, as the angle of view of a flying camera makes hiding far more difficult. Oh, and Target 65 is given in degrees on a compass with 0 degrees being north. So it's a bearing of 65° east or 1180 mil.
As long as there isn't enough Electronic warfare gear on the other side of the conflict to triangulate the controller transciever and send a hot package to the location.
@@SonsOfLorgar That's always a problem, but triangulation of radio transmission is still not exactly instant, but gets easier the more is sent and the higher the signal strength is. So a battlefield network that sends your strike information as a very small data package is the least detectable variant, as long as it isn't constantly trying to send data in between your strike information data. The war in Ukraine shows quite formidably, that the battlefield has become so transparent, that you can't really hide anywhere at all.
Also, there might be a way to improve the level of survivability of exist kit by developing a camera that could be attached to the device's eye piece and wired to a separate display so that one can poke the targeting device above a rock but the person can operate it from behind the rock and thus keep their head down and maybe the pointer lever arm can have an extension as well so that the device could be pointed without exposing ones hands as well. That won't help against artillery but might help protect against snipers.
In bosnian war artillery and mortar had have already calculated distance and direction, so forward observation just call spot by already determined spots, building big tree, road, ditch, mine field 1,2,3... Or for you can call map coordinates for some obscure unlikely position. It's easy when everyone is born in area so everyone knows every house, road, etc
A smart solution would be to scan the observable area mapping out all the distances and store them so as it passively observes the area just tap on where you want to target and the ranging is already done and with gps could give coordinates very quickly when calling in strikes.
Against insurgent type threats, like the one in the video, the primary threat to forward observers would be, as mentioned, snipers or perhaps RPGs or heavy machine guns. The key is that all would be LOS weapons and so with a remote operated system like this one, the FO can shelter behind terrain and thus be relatively immune from being targeted by LOS weapons available to low capability insurgents. However, against an adversary with full military capability, like the situation in Ukraine, the primary threat would seem to me to be from drones with visual, but especially IR cameras that can spot the FOs from above. And since the best location for a FO post is the highest ground available, this definitely minimizes the locations that need to be observed. Once located by the enemy, the FO post can be targeted by a so-called bomber drone, possibly the same scouting drone, or by indirect fires. So what do you think the utility of manned forward observation posts are against an opposing force equipped with drones and artillery that can target them even if they are sheltered behind terrain?
If you relay the data from the laser range finder to your team mates near by, who may have mortar tubes setup. The range finder could talk to the mortars directly giving them elevation and direction. All computerized. Could put fire on target then the mortar crew could scoot out on ATV's. Need some guys armed with .22L automatic rifles for anti drone with good optics. Need some guys with FPV drones too. That is the picket squad I would want.
That's roughly how most western indirect fire support is organised afaik. A field commander gets assigned an FO-team or FO-AFV, the FO-teams are either a detatched part of a firing asset, or an integrated company/battalion/brigade level command asset that in turn gets assigned time allotments for direct control over specific indirect fire assets. Though counter battery radar units and specific target types like enemy SPAA, regional command and strategic assets tend to have priority override access to every own indirect fire asset in their sensor range, for easily understandable reasons.
I wouldn’t want this job. I use a FLIR T540 at work $17,000 with about another $5,000 in equipment all in one backpack. I couldn’t imagine having 500k in top secret tech in a backpack and the enemies main goal is to kill you and steal your stuff.
I wonder if the drones currently used have an automatic location system on observed targets for like artillery, or that it's all a matter of visuals and a map.
And a longer cable, or capability to connect by standardised outdoors rated shielded cat6 ethernet cables with a conscript and weather proof end connector 😉
@@SonsOfLorgarthis thing is meant for mobile warfare a 100' is fine! more than enough to get behind descent cover! if you want more range might as well go wireless!
The realy nice thing. as it it´s remote controlled. you can hide it somewhere. It wold be imposible for a human to hide. Say you hide it in a small rock formation.
This feels like something you could deploy using either a ground based drone or one flying (more risky and limited). Or just bake it into a ground moving drone made specifically for this, moving stealth and camp against thermal vision.
Obviously drones have the added challenge of a wireless communication system in the observation loop, but I'd like to think we can work around the problems that poses with stuff like semi-autonomous platforms and narrow beam radio links. Being able to move your observation platform off of the ground has always been a huge multiplier to its effectiveness
I met a few JTACs in tech school and as a 19yo I simply couldn't comprehend how anyone could do that job, especially at such a young age. Clearly some people just have that capability far earlier than others lol
Long range fires are so devastating in Ukraine from the trifecta of drones/mortars/artillery wiping out entire mechanized and tank battalions before they can even close the gap into direct fire range.
Hey Matsimus, thank you for making this video. I am currently trying to plan the most effective way to become a JTAC in the CA, and I wanted to know what your thoughts were given you current duties in the CA. I am planning on earning my bachelors degree (mech eng), to become an artillery officer and go down the FOO path. Then, once I am ready, apply to the JTAC course. Is it a high-competition role? Any suggestions or warnings? Anyway, thank you in advance and I think your videos are some of the best coming out of the CAF.
The JTAC specialty within the CAF is extremely undermanned. I head something like 75 positions were needed to be filled. If you have specific CAF JTAC questions, feel free to reach out and I’ll answer your question to the best of my ability. As far as I’m tracking, you just have to express interest and from there you may be nominated on a pre-JTAC course to determine your suitability.
Forward observor, scout, or recon are on the list to get replaced by small drones like DJI. A drone can even be fitted with a laser designator or FLIR. Just like the HattoirX but far lighter and is mobile even when you're not.
They are on the list to be armed with drones. But not replaced. FOs do so much more stuff than what you can do only with a drone. Its a lot of just quickly pulling shit out of your sleeve to quickly supress enemies. Its cordinating the movement of friendly troops in relation to the fires you have called. Drones cant tell the platoon that you cant cross this rode before the arty stops in 50 seconds. At long ranges yes drones are far superior but they also need an FO. But when there is lots of moving parts and troops on the tactical level you need someone to keep the platoon commander in the loop about what the fuck the artillery is doing and keep the unit from pushing into your own artillery fire.
Those guys are the drone pilots, not replaced by their kit. The job of battlefield reconnaissance still exists, so will the people who do the job, even though with potentially different gear. Drones have advantages, but huge disadvantages, too: On a battlefield, on which it is common for a while now to track any artillery shell fired to fire back at the gun before it moves and on which quite some effort goes into electronic warfare like not only jamming, but locating and tracking radio emissions, a drone and its controller is a very obvious marker, quite like erecting the typical highway advertisement tower sign, writing on a highlighter background colour: "shoot here to stop artillery strikes!"
@@KarlKarpfen Exactly. FO’s will always be necessary in real warfare. Fighting an unsupported 3rd world country……maybe you can get away without them but if the other side is even a near peer competitor they will have EW technology that will make your observation drones inconsistent on a good day.
Drones make the modern battlefield a nightmare especially with thermal/nv. It's not uncommon for over 10,000 kamikaze drones to be expended in a hot week. In between the non stop drones hunting for infantry/equipment there's also constant staggered electronic warfare disruption accompanied by constant mortar/artillery/rocket bombardment, it makes medevacs extremely dangerous if not impossible until night.
The toughpad isn't exactly a miliary-only product, but a civilian tablet for rough environmental conditions, which is therefore used in military applications, too.
@@KarlKarpfen I'm glad they are using off the shelf products instead of creating a "million dollar" touchpad, like defense contractors do all the time.
FO's do more than just call for fire, there is fire planning, joint integration with their maneuver elements, we do more than just call for fire, we are supposed to be the SME of fires systems and be able to translate it to the maneuver.
@@lamwen03Drones will become smarter to avoid jamming and GPS spoofing. For the radar problem I would go for several possible solutions. Low radar visibility, it is an observation drone, not an armed one. Maybe it can land and lay dormant for some time. Maybe observe when landed, perhaps perched in a tree. A drone could also be camouflaged to look like something else. We cannot have air defence systems shooting done every single bird in the area after all.
Forward observer? You mean a drone.. I'll give it 6 months then it's all drones replacing. I'd love to have a sneak peek in the drone observer technology research right now.
What does DIR 1180 mean for target 65? Is that suppose to be 118.0 degrees or is there a special format used by forward observers for a much finer indication of direction?
Direction 11-80…in Fin organisation fo’s are integrated to infantry so they wont operate as much on their own. There is a fo squad in every Jaeger Platoon. Recon fo squads under higher command can operate different.
Other than the guy hiding behind the piles of rocks, none of these other teams would last two minutes on a battlefield like Ukraine. Drones dominate the battlefield so thoroughly that the forward observer without overhead cover is just so much meat. And target 65 is 1180 mils, but I know that from reading other comments. Why work harder than you have to?
Actually having a sense of humour, It's the mark of a quick witted intelligent person that can think outside the box or several steps ahead. The tools you have are only as good as the people using them so there, Not being funny but if you can't acknowledge that too many people have a being stuck up their own A$$ problem then I would say focusing on things like that does wonders for self preservation just in general.
I thought drones made forward observation so much safer and a whole lot easier. Drones now being smaller and more agile than ever, also drones being easy to mod so they can carry or be equipped with a lot of different optics. But I guess new technology never makes true and tested tactics totally obsolete. Armor is not obsolete eventhough the portable antiarmor systems now being more of a threat than ever. The battlefield and tactics are ever changing due to the advent of new tech, yet I believe that the old school methods are even more important today for success and survival. Skills in basic navigation for instance is very important despite the fancy GPS equipment that is easily available out there. The direction is 1180
so... in about a year... this system will be completely replaced by a softwar-driven solution on a cell phone. Yes, I know the cell phone version will be crappy, but it will still be deadly, and it will cost $10 instead of $200,000.
Because drones and their controller has to have a radio transciever which can be triangulated and pinpointed in minutes by modern computerized RDF systems. The only reason Ukranian drone operators isn't taken out more frequently is that Russian artillery has both atrocious accuracy and equally atrocious response times due to their extremely authoritarian and inflexible command structure.
@@SonsOfLorgar I agree with you about the signal link and shell on the guy's head, but with a simple signal repeater(s) it should be attacking that not the person holding the stick. I actually wonder why this isn't done universally. Find me with 5 repeaters all around me at 1 click distances... Also if I was some dude with a gameboy controller, I'd be in a dug out with my antenna separated from the gameboy on top of the ground, min. I wouldn't be holding the target indicator signal device, ffs. There's no reason I know of for the antennas of the FPV drone operator screens not to be able to be extended away far enough to save the operator. Oversight? Or lack of care for life? How antennas with 10-20 meter extenders aren't a thing is beyond me... either side. Russians have successfully hunted the Ukrowermacht FPV drone operators too.
I see a bunch of bitching, on how drones will replace everything, but that's a bunch of crap. Drones are not all weather and electronic warfare can and will take them out. Most drones are fairly short range. Even with a drone, you still have a person making decisions on what you fire at or don't fire at. For immediate targets that you otherwise don't have eyes on, drones are great. Keep in mind, that from the air, people are VERY hard to distinguish your people and unfriendly people. One of the big roles is observation and watching an area for things you can't see from the air AND for a long period of time looking for your enemy to see what they are doing. A quad copter can't sit in one spot all day long. Having the optics with a range finder and a gps (and hopefully thermals) is a game changer in getting missions down range. I think long duration versions of this in the 100s that would report back movement to a command center on movement would be amazing. Now if you could put this a drone, and park them where you need them, then you have something really interesting. One thing to keep in mind, is all of the electronics from drones to radios need power. A human in the mix can allow you to use the power as needed, and not all the time. I seriously doubt you are going to have this fancy scope powered up all of the time. Just like you can't have drones in the air all of the time, since they need recharging and maintance.
As a US Army 13F Forward Observer I was challenged by a Infantry M249 SAW gunner what my primary weapon was. He was making fun of my M16A2 rifle. I told him my primary weapon was a battalion of 155mm self-propelled howitzers. That took him aback, "whoa." I just smiled.
In retrospect I wish I'd kept a log of the fire missions I called like a sniper's log. I can't really say how many rounds but I guess it would be in the low hundreds.
FISTERS LEAD THE WAY!!! :P
With all respect, Mavics, Yeah, DJI Mavics, made your role obsolete. The whole video is obsolete. I mean that yeah, you can use forward observers agains some middle age armies and so on but there is no way forward observers can keep up with drones observation. You shows a remote observation equipment here, that's cool. How many FPV drones needs to take out that observation point? And so on. No doubt that is an interesting part of eequipment, but it slightly outdated for any intense combat operations.
@@pupkinson8914 you have no idea what you're talking about and it shows. 😂
@@pupkinson8914 how many drones do you need to observe a area for 72 hours. Try to use a drone with out having any signals. that tells the enemy that you are observing them.
...Or MLRS rockets !!
"Don't worry, Lieutenant, they can't possibly hit us from this ........." And oldie but goodie. 😗😗😗
nobody ever talks about us FO, that's kinda refreshing.
414th battalion of the IDF. we tested the Hattorix in 2018 and then it entered service, amazing piece of gear, extremely useful, saved me and my team's lives one time from an ATGM impact.
TGT 65 is 1180 mils. Mils are used instead of degrees for two reasons. One, greater accuracy and two, 1 mil @ 1000m is 1m
Mils don’t mean anything to CAS. Aircraft use Degrees Magnetic. You can send mils, but now you’re making the pilot do math further extending the kill chain.
Some Soviet units actually had target practice shooting at targets looking like eldledare (Swedish forward observers) back during the cold war
So yes, they are a priority target
My guess is that drone warfare soon enough will change everything about how that we think about forward observation
I was a 13F in the 82nd Airborne from 2002 to 2006 :D. 65 Degrees is southeast. I loved being a JTAC :)
1- tie 2 of them together to triangulate to target
2- issue them with decoy units to draw fire away from the real unit once general are of observer is known
3- allow it to mount night vision for all day night use
Hi Mat, you are correct on the high value we place on our Observation Officers. I was many years ago in 3 Para detailed to pick up our FO that was stranded on Mt. Olympus for a few days and nights and now suffering from frost bite. Great blokes who just got on with the job. The “drop short” boys couldn’t do without them and the K1W1 gunners proved that in Viet Nam. Ten years later we met up on a parade ground in New Zealand. Once a Para, always a Para. Cheers mate. Harera
I agree with your point about a fist or any other form of observation team being important in a battle field, the amount of times my team and i have been have had our bacon saved
anyone looking for observers, if they have the best kit, can look for thermals. if the spotter is not in POV of anything and some distance, i think a system like this doesnt generate much heat - not as much as meatbags like us do, anyway, so it should add quite a bit of security. and thermal masking of such a small device doesnt seem to be too hard
So cool you posted this, I was reading a news report about JTAC's running around the hills in Yemen right now.
You already know, it;s the Fennek (maybe a bit upgraded)
That periscope makes it ideal to do that from cover
Kinda like the Stugna-P strategy. Stand-off. Don't die.
Ok ok Matt, you've dropped enough hints, we'll take up a collection and get you a Hattorix for your birthday. 😁
This when used in systems is game changer.
TGT 65 DIR 1180 mil, 66.375 degrees, East - North East. Great Video.
At the pace of change, you have to wonder how long it will take for this technology to enter other areas of the food chain. Suspect that many of these features were originally part of aircraft targeting systems.
PS - Appreciate your brief on the gear and usage!
Glad to see your still trucking along Matt another great video look forward to the next one. it's funny to really see the age in mail call when gunny go's to demonstrate weapons its almost funny to see all the boys wearing the old school woodland. Still think it looked better more professional with the old school BDUs.
They will be looking for you or Retrans teams, but no one wants to talk about commo teams or comms as it "too boring". Its too boring until you cant talk to anyone.
So very true, especially your last sentence.
My father in law was a forward artillery observer in early Korea during Pusan Perimeter He was very vulnerable. He survived the war without the modern kit you show. But all of his replacement observers were killed. All of his kids are high IQ and I am sure that his survival is due to his intelligence and avoiding obvious places or moving regularly so he survived.
Thank you for your phenomenal content as always, Mats.
I wonder if all that Equipment is already obsolete because of the capabilities of drones
Also the direction is 11-80. On The us 6400 mils circle. Fun fact the Russians (and Finns and Ukrainans) use a 6000 mill cirlce. (Thank you for amazing content and happy new year wishes an forward observer from Finland where its currently -31°c ❄️
Better put your suncream on
Sorry for all the 500m (50mil at 10km?) errors from an artillery man!
I'd say put it on an areal drone and get a better range of coverage.
Most spotting is now down by more affordable household equipment.
Observers are eyes and ears for a lot of folks. Whatever helps them get the job done,while doing it in a safer way,is a good tool.
Put this on a Spot. This little mech dog, can set up the observation point, further from the observer.
6:30 and it brings a bigger power pack.
As thermal imaging is close to becoming the feature any flagship smartphone released next year will have, such remote controlled systems will be necessary to keep forward observers alive for more than the first strike they call in. In all honesty though, the war in Ukraine shows, that a commercial quad-copter with a commercial thermal imager for a kit-price of 2000 bucks proves very effective as a remote controlled forward observer, too, especially against formerly hidden positions, as the angle of view of a flying camera makes hiding far more difficult.
Oh, and Target 65 is given in degrees on a compass with 0 degrees being north. So it's a bearing of 65° east or 1180 mil.
As long as there isn't enough Electronic warfare gear on the other side of the conflict to triangulate the controller transciever and send a hot package to the location.
@@SonsOfLorgar That's always a problem, but triangulation of radio transmission is still not exactly instant, but gets easier the more is sent and the higher the signal strength is. So a battlefield network that sends your strike information as a very small data package is the least detectable variant, as long as it isn't constantly trying to send data in between your strike information data.
The war in Ukraine shows quite formidably, that the battlefield has become so transparent, that you can't really hide anywhere at all.
That looks like a great piece of kit!
Also, there might be a way to improve the level of survivability of exist kit by developing a camera that could be attached to the device's eye piece and wired to a separate display so that one can poke the targeting device above a rock but the person can operate it from behind the rock and thus keep their head down and maybe the pointer lever arm can have an extension as well so that the device could be pointed without exposing ones hands as well.
That won't help against artillery but might help protect against snipers.
In bosnian war artillery and mortar had have already calculated distance and direction, so forward observation just call spot by already determined spots, building big tree, road, ditch, mine field 1,2,3... Or for you can call map coordinates for some obscure unlikely position.
It's easy when everyone is born in area so everyone knows every house, road, etc
A smart solution would be to scan the observable area mapping out all the distances and store them so as it passively observes the area just tap on where you want to target and the ranging is already done and with gps could give coordinates very quickly when calling in strikes.
actually used to make the lens for a version of these things.
Against insurgent type threats, like the one in the video, the primary threat to forward observers would be, as mentioned, snipers or perhaps RPGs or heavy machine guns. The key is that all would be LOS weapons and so with a remote operated system like this one, the FO can shelter behind terrain and thus be relatively immune from being targeted by LOS weapons available to low capability insurgents.
However, against an adversary with full military capability, like the situation in Ukraine, the primary threat would seem to me to be from drones with visual, but especially IR cameras that can spot the FOs from above. And since the best location for a FO post is the highest ground available, this definitely minimizes the locations that need to be observed. Once located by the enemy, the FO post can be targeted by a so-called bomber drone, possibly the same scouting drone, or by indirect fires.
So what do you think the utility of manned forward observation posts are against an opposing force equipped with drones and artillery that can target them even if they are sheltered behind terrain?
If you relay the data from the laser range finder to your team mates near by, who may have mortar tubes setup. The range finder could talk to the mortars directly giving them elevation and direction. All computerized. Could put fire on target then the mortar crew could scoot out on ATV's. Need some guys armed with .22L automatic rifles for anti drone with good optics. Need some guys with FPV drones too. That is the picket squad I would want.
That's roughly how most western indirect fire support is organised afaik. A field commander gets assigned an FO-team or FO-AFV, the FO-teams are either a detatched part of a firing asset, or an integrated company/battalion/brigade level command asset that in turn gets assigned time allotments for direct control over specific indirect fire assets.
Though counter battery radar units and specific target types like enemy SPAA, regional command and strategic assets tend to have priority override access to every own indirect fire asset in their sensor range, for easily understandable reasons.
Great vid!
Target 65 is located “that way.”
I wouldn’t want this job. I use a FLIR T540 at work $17,000 with about another $5,000 in equipment all in one backpack. I couldn’t imagine having 500k in top secret tech in a backpack and the enemies main goal is to kill you and steal your stuff.
No you, and your.
I wonder if the drones currently used have an automatic location system on observed targets for like artillery, or that it's all a matter of visuals and a map.
oh the brass loves toys if they get the chance it'll get bought!!! it needs FLIR and night vision added though!!
And a longer cable, or capability to connect by standardised outdoors rated shielded cat6 ethernet cables with a conscript and weather proof end connector 😉
@@SonsOfLorgarthis thing is meant for mobile warfare a 100' is fine! more than enough to get behind descent cover! if you want more range might as well go wireless!
The realy nice thing. as it it´s remote controlled. you can hide it somewhere. It wold be imposible for a human to hide. Say you hide it in a small rock formation.
This feels like something you could deploy using either a ground based drone or one flying (more risky and limited). Or just bake it into a ground moving drone made specifically for this, moving stealth and camp against thermal vision.
Obviously drones have the added challenge of a wireless communication system in the observation loop, but I'd like to think we can work around the problems that poses with stuff like semi-autonomous platforms and narrow beam radio links. Being able to move your observation platform off of the ground has always been a huge multiplier to its effectiveness
Didn't the Beatles do a song the FOO on the hill?
This thing reminds me of the remote designator from arma 3.
I met a few JTACs in tech school and as a 19yo I simply couldn't comprehend how anyone could do that job, especially at such a young age.
Clearly some people just have that capability far earlier than others lol
What do you even mean? Why?
As an Israeli FSO I can say that hattox is amazing, would like to chat to you about your experience as a FO
Long range fires are so devastating in Ukraine from the trifecta of drones/mortars/artillery wiping out entire mechanized and tank battalions before they can even close the gap into direct fire range.
TGT 65 DIR 1180 (Edit: MIL)
1180? 118*?
@@fluffthesergal7640 1180 MIL
@DarrenBostock My bad! Thought you meant bearing.
@@fluffthesergal7640 Understandable. There is a wide array of gradient types depending on the specific purpose.
Hey Matsimus, thank you for making this video. I am currently trying to plan the most effective way to become a JTAC in the CA, and I wanted to know what your thoughts were given you current duties in the CA. I am planning on earning my bachelors degree (mech eng), to become an artillery officer and go down the FOO path. Then, once I am ready, apply to the JTAC course. Is it a high-competition role? Any suggestions or warnings? Anyway, thank you in advance and I think your videos are some of the best coming out of the CAF.
The JTAC specialty within the CAF is extremely undermanned. I head something like 75 positions were needed to be filled. If you have specific CAF JTAC questions, feel free to reach out and I’ll answer your question to the best of my ability. As far as I’m tracking, you just have to express interest and from there you may be nominated on a pre-JTAC course to determine your suitability.
Looking good👍
Forward observor, scout, or recon are on the list to get replaced by small drones like DJI. A drone can even be fitted with a laser designator or FLIR. Just like the HattoirX but far lighter and is mobile even when you're not.
They are on the list to be armed with drones. But not replaced. FOs do so much more stuff than what you can do only with a drone. Its a lot of just quickly pulling shit out of your sleeve to quickly supress enemies. Its cordinating the movement of friendly troops in relation to the fires you have called. Drones cant tell the platoon that you cant cross this rode before the arty stops in 50 seconds. At long ranges yes drones are far superior but they also need an FO. But when there is lots of moving parts and troops on the tactical level you need someone to keep the platoon commander in the loop about what the fuck the artillery is doing and keep the unit from pushing into your own artillery fire.
Those guys are the drone pilots, not replaced by their kit. The job of battlefield reconnaissance still exists, so will the people who do the job, even though with potentially different gear. Drones have advantages, but huge disadvantages, too: On a battlefield, on which it is common for a while now to track any artillery shell fired to fire back at the gun before it moves and on which quite some effort goes into electronic warfare like not only jamming, but locating and tracking radio emissions, a drone and its controller is a very obvious marker, quite like erecting the typical highway advertisement tower sign, writing on a highlighter background colour: "shoot here to stop artillery strikes!"
@@KarlKarpfen Exactly. FO’s will always be necessary in real warfare. Fighting an unsupported 3rd world country……maybe you can get away without them but if the other side is even a near peer competitor they will have EW technology that will make your observation drones inconsistent on a good day.
Drones make the modern battlefield a nightmare especially with thermal/nv. It's not uncommon for over 10,000 kamikaze drones to be expended in a hot week. In between the non stop drones hunting for infantry/equipment there's also constant staggered electronic warfare disruption accompanied by constant mortar/artillery/rocket bombardment, it makes medevacs extremely dangerous if not impossible until night.
I LOVE how there is an Energy Star logo on the console XD XD XD!!
Panasonic brand is the best
The toughpad isn't exactly a miliary-only product, but a civilian tablet for rough environmental conditions, which is therefore used in military applications, too.
@@KarlKarpfen I'm glad they are using off the shelf products instead of creating a "million dollar" touchpad, like defense contractors do all the time.
Being a forward- observer with drones being a thing now sounds like a self-delete.
Artillery, literally scoring most casualties and hard kills: Am I a joke to you matsimus?
wouldnt there be a major advantage in hooking it up to atgm systems like javelin to give similar crew protection as you get with stugna p?
Everybody Gangsta until the wizard grunt starts chanting numbers into his plastic stick
... Downrange.
How necessary is this today? When a guy with a drone can possibly do that same job?
GPS spoofing/jamming. And radar can spot drones.
Loiter time on target
FO's do more than just call for fire, there is fire planning, joint integration with their maneuver elements, we do more than just call for fire, we are supposed to be the SME of fires systems and be able to translate it to the maneuver.
@@lamwen03Drones will become smarter to avoid jamming and GPS spoofing. For the radar problem I would go for several possible solutions. Low radar visibility, it is an observation drone, not an armed one. Maybe it can land and lay dormant for some time. Maybe observe when landed, perhaps perched in a tree. A drone could also be camouflaged to look like something else. We cannot have air defence systems shooting done every single bird in the area after all.
@@michaelpettersson4919 And electronic warfare jamming systems don’t become better?
Forward observer? You mean a drone.. I'll give it 6 months then it's all drones replacing.
I'd love to have a sneak peek in the drone observer technology research right now.
target 65
direction 280?
What does DIR 1180 mean for target 65? Is that suppose to be 118.0 degrees or is there a special format used by forward observers for a much finer indication of direction?
Great content many thanks cant help thinking a drone doing same job and being far more cost affective.
Wonder if solar panels are a power option.
TGT 65 is a Gunner - hopefully I am right it's been a long time
I am shocked that remoter observer system hasn't been a thing for the past 3 decades already (at least in some form).
This is not what my professor meant by the observer effect
good video i like it
Direction 11-80…in Fin organisation fo’s are integrated to infantry so they wont operate as much on their own. There is a fo squad in every Jaeger Platoon. Recon fo squads under higher command can operate different.
Van❤
Other than the guy hiding behind the piles of rocks, none of these other teams would last two minutes on a battlefield like Ukraine. Drones dominate the battlefield so thoroughly that the forward observer without overhead cover is just so much meat.
And target 65 is 1180 mils, but I know that from reading other comments. Why work harder than you have to?
The guy hiding behind the rock would last 12 minutes: 2 minutes + drone flight time
DJI sells a commercial drone that has a thermal and a laser range finder.
Drones.
13E20 FDC I'm the one the FO is talking to.
Might add, that was before all the current electronics. Maps and compass only.
If the "most deadly thing" on a battlefield is any piece of "gear" your "military force" is in SERIOUS trouble.
Eyes Of Death 🎉🎉🎉
South
Im not taking the p1ss so dont just down my throat. What can a observer do that a drone with a gps cant?
Target 65 direction 1180
👍😎🍺🍩🪖
Actually having a sense of humour, It's the mark of a quick witted intelligent person that can think outside the box or several steps ahead. The tools you have are only as good as the people using them so there, Not being funny but if you can't acknowledge that too many people have a being stuck up their own A$$ problem then I would say focusing on things like that does wonders for self preservation just in general.
I thought drones made forward observation so much safer and a whole lot easier.
Drones now being smaller and more agile than ever, also drones being easy to mod so they can carry or be equipped with a lot of different optics.
But I guess new technology never makes true and tested tactics totally obsolete. Armor is not obsolete eventhough the portable antiarmor systems now being more of a threat than ever. The battlefield and tactics are ever changing due to the advent of new tech, yet I believe that the old school methods are even more important today for success and survival. Skills in basic navigation for instance is very important despite the fancy GPS equipment that is easily available out there.
The direction is
1180
so... in about a year... this system will be completely replaced by a softwar-driven solution on a cell phone.
Yes, I know the cell phone version will be crappy, but it will still be deadly, and it will cost $10 instead of $200,000.
It must be deliverable by himars
😎👍
nor nor east
east nor east then
PLD/SOFLAM and Javelin….Anyone?
Ah a fellow Battlefield 4 player
The most deady thing on the battlefield field is a ukrainian fpv drone operator
A friend of mine at work lost her son the other day in the war in🇷🇼he was 26 front line soldier 😢
Target # 65, at 1180 MIls= if orienting yourself facing North to get the lay of the land, it's off to the Northeast.
target 65 is 118 0
Target #65 is ⬆️ that way from this comment.
NOPE! It IS Drones!
Drones are a complement, not a replacement, at least not until they can be controlled by means that can't be RDF triangulated in seconds...
@@SonsOfLorgar ..and i'm now to old for drones - when BANG-BANG!....'00s = my days abroad.
Royal Life Guards (Denmark)
feels pointless with drones these days
How haven't they been replaced by FPV drones given what's going on in the Ukraine?
Because drones and their controller has to have a radio transciever which can be triangulated and pinpointed in minutes by modern computerized RDF systems.
The only reason Ukranian drone operators isn't taken out more frequently is that Russian artillery has both atrocious accuracy and equally atrocious response times due to their extremely authoritarian and inflexible command structure.
@@SonsOfLorgar I agree with you about the signal link and shell on the guy's head, but with a simple signal repeater(s) it should be attacking that not the person holding the stick. I actually wonder why this isn't done universally. Find me with 5 repeaters all around me at 1 click distances...
Also if I was some dude with a gameboy controller, I'd be in a dug out with my antenna separated from the gameboy on top of the ground, min.
I wouldn't be holding the target indicator signal device, ffs. There's no reason I know of for the antennas of the FPV drone operator screens not to be able to be extended away far enough to save the operator.
Oversight? Or lack of care for life? How antennas with 10-20 meter extenders aren't a thing is beyond me... either side. Russians have successfully hunted the Ukrowermacht FPV drone operators too.
i wonder if jtac troops were ever killed by sniper fire...
English please.
Watch the video.
When we see this on a flying drone matched with drones carrying weapons and controlled with AI we are fucked.
I think drones will replace those
Dir: 1180
I see a bunch of bitching, on how drones will replace everything, but that's a bunch of crap. Drones are not all weather and electronic warfare can and will take them out. Most drones are fairly short range. Even with a drone, you still have a person making decisions on what you fire at or don't fire at. For immediate targets that you otherwise don't have eyes on, drones are great. Keep in mind, that from the air, people are VERY hard to distinguish your people and unfriendly people. One of the big roles is observation and watching an area for things you can't see from the air AND for a long period of time looking for your enemy to see what they are doing. A quad copter can't sit in one spot all day long. Having the optics with a range finder and a gps (and hopefully thermals) is a game changer in getting missions down range. I think long duration versions of this in the 100s that would report back movement to a command center on movement would be amazing. Now if you could put this a drone, and park them where you need them, then you have something really interesting.
One thing to keep in mind, is all of the electronics from drones to radios need power. A human in the mix can allow you to use the power as needed, and not all the time. I seriously doubt you are going to have this fancy scope powered up all of the time. Just like you can't have drones in the air all of the time, since they need recharging and maintance.
LMAO
Didn't help Israel in GAZA