Is it too late to talk about Joker?
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- Опубліковано 27 чер 2024
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I'm sorry but the deadline for this essay was due months ago so you will receive a fail for this assignment.
EllisD1249 he gets a zero but he still has to turn it in
Haha. Poor Jack.
Jack: Is it too late to talk about Joker?
Me: Well let's see, it came out in like October, right? So that's... 5 months plus 10 years of March and another 15 years of April.... I think you're pushing it, mate.
The hardest thing is that we'll now have to wait decades till we get to see another new movie in theater.
So you're saying I wasted 2½ decades and 5 months since then...
🥴
I wonder how differently this movie would've been received, had we not heard such a buzz of rumours about it before the movie came out. All we heard from critics before watching it was that it was DEEP and DISTURBING and PEOPLE ARE GONNA GET SHOT IN THE THEATRES. So everyone went into it, preparing themselves for just that and analysing everything with that blueprint in their minds.
Anywho, great video Jack. You're always so balanced and nuanced when it comes to analysing film and it's very refreshing to see :)
What I found neat about Joker is how it made him an “agent of chaos” compared to his previous depictions, in particular Heath Ledger’s Joker. Joker in the Dark Knight was a meticulous planner. He spends the whole movie manipulating people and setting things up just how he wants it before he knocks it all down. He purposefully pits people against one another, influencing them to act on their selfish desires, killing others so they can stay ahead. He works on an elaborate plan to earn a bunch of money, only to burn his share. Yes it turns Gotham into a frenzy, but to him it is *controlled* chaos. There is a method to the madness, so to speak. He knows what he wants, and he knows what he has to do in order to get it. He understands the cause and effect of his actions. He *plans* and caused other people to act impulsively.
Joaquinn Phoenix doesn’t do that. Gotham sees Arthur as the leader to the working class rebellion, but he has no idea what he’s doing. The attack on the Wall Street employees wasn’t a political attack like the news makes it out to be, Arthur didn’t even know who they were. It was a spur of the moment attack that came from self-defence. The murder of Murray on live television wasn’t intended to sport a riot, hell Arthur wasn’t even sure if he was going to kill himself or Murray until the moment came. His “You get what you deserve” line was never intended to start a movement against whoever people found unjust, like Thomas Wayne. It was just something he said in his fit of anger against Murray. And I think that’s the biggest difference between Joaquinn’s Joker and others. Unlike previous Jokers, Arthur has no plan, no end goal, he just does things that suit him at the time, with no consideration to how that will affect those around him. He is unpredictable because not even Arthur knows what he’s going to do, or what will happen. It’s like an “open for interpretation” movie or video game. He throws out some random shit and the people of Gotham choose what they want it to mean, whether that’s a political statement on the division between the rich and poor, or an invitation to take matters into your own hands.
lol this was precisely my qualm with the film! one of my favourite things about the Joker is how intelligent and manipulative he is; I think that's what makes him so compelling. you never really know how many steps ahead of you he is.
then again, when looking at Arthur Fleck without preconceived ideas of who "The Joker" is, I do find it interesting how he's raised up as a symbol when he himself doesn't really stand for anything-- he's just a guy who's carrying a huge amount of trauma and has been let down by a lack of funding for mental health services and Gotham has turned him into this cold and calculated evil genius with an agenda.
kind of reminds me of our fascination with serial killers like Ted Bundy; he was lauded as a criminal mastermind (even by the judge on his case) when in reality he was a brutal, narcissistic idiot who, if they'd had the tools/technology we have today back in the 70s, would've been caught nearly instantly.
sorry for the big comment! just find it interesting to think about how the established character of Joker differs so much from Arthur and whether or not this is in the movie's favour.
I think in both cases though it fits the arch of the character, especially in the context of the whole batman superhero world. People perceive him to have the power to direct the chaos but in actuality he is simply surrounded by it. Don't forget that he rises to be one of the top villains in the city, so you could imagine after this movie, him falling in with gangs because they think they can use him, and him using his reputation for creating chaos and being unpredictable to to learn how to manipulate situations to his advantage - going along with plans because, hey, what else is he gonna do, and as a byproduct gains power and fear. Obviously though, he's mentally unstable and doesn't care much about the world, so once he's bored of following other people's agendas he uses that fear and respect to turn into the more manipulative and evolved joker character who is familiar to us, the one who manipulates and plans chaos to his own advantage and to satisfy his whims
😳 that is one hell of a comment my friend
Love you.
JaackMaate love you right back
What irks me about the whole real world narrative is how people pretend it was somehow an underdog story. As if it’s not the most popular villain of the most popular superhero, genetically engineered to be awards bait. Just because you make something R rated, it doesn’t make it a risk
Nobody said it was taking a risk by being rated R. Blade was rated R. Darkman was rated R. Deadpool 1 and 2 were R. People assume that it was trying to be "risky" when from the start it was just trying to capture the essence of the character of Joker placed in a real world.
bud389 that’s not what Todd Phillips said though
Best video I’ve seen on joker by far, Straight to the point and that point feels fresh. This video is like that one person who’s late to the party but made the party far better by being there nonetheless. Props!
That’s my whole vibe. Thanks for watching :)
as a spanish speaker I had never even contemplated how Joaquin is pronounced in english and now my brain is stuck there
Huh?
Luke Kesletal same lmaoo
Omg yes lol
no one else I've met pronounces it like this i swear
The issue I think is that the film is inconsistent. We're supposed to think he's cringy and not take him seriously/or as a villain, but at the same time we ARE supposed to take the things the film (and Arthur as the protagonist) about wealth inequality and mental health seriously. It feels like the director didn't really know what he wanted to say and so he said everything through a problematic protagonist, resulting in his saying nothing.
FINALLY Someone mentions that jokers beliefs in the movie aren’t supposed to be the big take-away or the views of everyone involved in the film. It’s literally the POV of a VILLAIN
This is an incredibly refreshing response to the film and a really interesting one! Much to consider🧐 love your work and your ideas Jack!
The most sensible and down to earth video I've seen about Joker for sure
I also hated how heavy handed the movie was sometimes. Like during the scene where he goes into his neighbors apartment and it was already super obvious what the movie was trying to tell you, but they had to beat you over the head with it by doing the flashbacks.
Also, this was a great video. You like verbalized how I felt about the movie perfectly.
Yep, my friend Sammy describes this moment perfectly. He said “I thought the movie was on the same page as me but then when the flashbacks happened, realised the movie didn’t think I was as smart as it was.”
I don't think it beat you over the head, the flashback scene was about 9 seconds long, and if you look at certain audiences, or people who just don't pay attention to the movie, that scene would be needed. It's one of those things where if it wasn't there how many people do you think would be complaining that it wasn't clear?
@No Koo I'm not saying you should make a movie for people who don't pay attention, but it's better to be clear at certain points than not. That was one of those points where it was better to be clear on the off chance people didn't see it coming.
It was both heavy handed and necessary at the same time. I liked that they showed me that it wasn't real. It wasn't obvious to assume she wasn't real(to me). They showed Arthur daydreaming being on the show, but that isn't the same thing as completely fabricating a relationship and talking to her in broad daylight. And I know at that point he was also off his meds, but the point is that the movie didn't have a very well established way of showing what was real and what wasn't. The talk show scene didn't make me assume that far.
@@pulkmees I think they should have left it at when he gets to her apartment and she asks what he's doing there, and then asks what his name is. There's no way people would think she wouldnt know her own boyfriend's name, and they would just have to connect the dots to "he's imagined this relationship", which isn't this hard to do.
And I think it's even made easier by the fact that their relationship wasn't ringing true from the beginning. Loner/creep (or at least perceived that way) easily conquers his crush (which also happens to be a beautiful woman?), and whatsmore, why would he be so tortured and unhappy if he was in a happy relationship?
First and most importantly, think the audio quality is actually a bit too good. One of the things I really liked about Joker when I saw it was what you mentioned about everyone repurposing Joker for their own narratives, deciding what he means and who he "belongs" to. Skewing his words in different directions. In general, I think that's a big part of what appeals to me about comic book films - exploring power in public, who has it, and how other people contribute to that power/notoriety/celebrity through the stories they tell about it, for better and for worse. And as you say that operates on a meta level with how the film was framed in lots of directions. And we see that with lots of films now, I think.
On the iconography part, these stories really are in many ways the mythologies of our time, at least for those cultures saturated with them. We know at least something about these characters (and some much, much more than others) and key visual moments the same way people were familiar with oral storytelling about the greek gods and all the stuff they got up to. & the fact that the original mythology is a visual means, then shown again and again in new ways -- the bit that you said they're building up and enjoyment of making those connections -- I think is enhanced by that extra knowledge of the text, rewarding fans (and is a really rewarding bit of fandom in general). It's kind of a balancing act between familiar and new. Probs a big part of why I'm often really drawn to adaptations (of books mostly, but in general). How is this storyteller going to tell this story in a different way that still also needs to hit these points that connect with my existing relationship to this story. Anyway this comment is too long bye.
A* comment. You’re much smarter than me. I also know how much you’re gonna enjoy being graded.
JackHoward Oh god thank you for my grade :D
I agree with some points and not with others. Yes, at the end of the day it is a super hero film, but why does that mean it can't take itself seriously? It is a character study of this version of the Joker. Why, just because it's connected to a comic book character, does mean it can't take itself seriously and revel in that fact? I found it a good balance. It took itself seriously in the right ways (for me) where as stuff like batman vs superman/man of steel missed the mark by taking itself too seriously (among other problems). You name check the dark night, thats a comic book film that takes itself seriously while what goes on, on screen, could be described as silly.
i was waiting for your thoughts on the joker! you are my number one source for film reviews and opinions. keep em coming, even if they're late!!
Really solid content lately mate 👏 I get so buzzed every time you upload 🤩
I love your solo videos so much!!!!
I’m so glad you’re making videos more often 🥰
i love these! keep em comin'
your voice is very calming, and I love your style of comedy. Recon you would do just a mates podcast with Dean?
Been waiting for this video!
Definitely been my fave analysis on Joker so far! My first instinct coming out of the film was that it wasn't as good as the sum of its parts, if that makes sense - a bit like Rachel's trifle in Friends? All the ingredients seemed great; music, acting, cinematography but when it all came together something felt off to me! Thanks for a great video, excited to revisit a film I considered writing off!
Great video, it was super interesting to get your take on this whole thing !
i just really genuinely enjoyed this video. thank you jack. it’s the little things.
Thank you for eloquently summing up and improving what I’ve tried to say to various friends for months.
as always you are articulate as ever and i love listening to you talk about films,, but dAmn that is a great mic
Amilliahh yesss i found the sound quality to be v satisfying
My fav scene is when he gets in the fridge. Felt like depression.
Personally I don’t think I can approach it as a silly batman movie. It’s just too dark to do so. The hand fisted Gotham/Wayne elements have as much subtlety as Todd Phillips can manage. If anything, upon rewatching the film I tried my best NOT to focus on these elements, as the personal character study of Arthur Fleck is just more interesting to me.
But nice take, make more videos Jack!
Jack James Reilly fancy seeing you here!
@@lukemartin8211 haha WHAT
@@lukemartin8211 Small world
I really enjoyed this, I had the same feelings about the intentions of the film when I watched it, but didn’t know how to put it into words. Now I’ll be able to show this video to anyone I talk to about the film and save me waffling on and on. Thank you!
yasmin devlin dean You can save you waffling on by letting me waffle on
So refreshing and fascinating to watch. For someone who simply enjoys watching films but isn’t necessarily equipped with the capacity to “get deep about it”, these videos are great because I can properly understand a lot of your rationals without the content being labelled “niche”. Great take - I look forward to your future projects and ideas!
I think it might be one of my favourite films, honestly.
I went into Joker with such high expectations and it somehow managed to go above and beyond them. I got choked up in the theater just because it filled me with so much love that I have for film. It was the best cinematically raw experience I’ve had next to Midsommar.
Well. You didn't make the video when Joker was super popular. I respect that.
I’m very glad u made this video bc as I was watching it both times I felt like this but couldn’t put it into words?????? Lmao thank u Jack
Yes
I watched Joker for the first time yesterday evening, so no, now is the perfect time to talk about it
It was a character study with comic book look. The unreliable narrator is the main theme. The socio-politucal aspect of the film was a carryover from the The Dark Knight Joker philosophy. It plays with your emotions in various ways which makes you relate to The Joker emotion trama. There is so much that can be said about this film.
It's funny because I thought it was a serious film trying to act like a villain movie. xD It felt like an essay on how mistreated people with mental health issues are and how chaos could rule in such a polarised world, with a few references to the dc universe. If I take those all away (joker, batman, gotham, etc) I still get a nice plot with great characters, but the villain is not a villain, just an outcast
haven't watched it yet, but tempted to rent it on the UA-cams
Completely agree with everything you said
What you said about the film trying to force combining a comic book movie and a serious character study explained my feelings about it in a way I couldn't verbalize. I had very mixed feelings about Joker because I'm generally not a comic book movie fan. I felt like every time I was just getting to a deeper analysis of Phoenix's character, a big flashing sign would come up saying "Hey! BRUCE WAYNE! Don't forget THIS IS A BATMAN MOVIE!" I think those messages should have been less on the nose
Interesting video. I really enjoyed Joker and it's nice to hear propels opinions on it
yes
Apparently when filming bathroom dance, phillips decided to play the joker theme to phoenix and he said he loved it and just started dancing so they just got the cameras rolling and thats how that scene was born
Liking the new mic, sounds good, but you might need a pop filter. Also consider running your audio through a high-pass filter afterwards (say, 80Hz) as my subwoofer got a bit excited at points
I don’t agree, but that’s definitely a fresh take
I don't get the "Big silly batman movie" take at all, but I like the rest of your points.
this is what i wanted to say but didn’t know how !!! ty jack !!
My thoughts exactly. Watching it this way from the get go made me appreciate it a lot more than if I were to be watching it as a serious, important film.
I was really gripped when watching the film and enjoyed it, but I agree there is a slight genre clash or identity crisis. Not terrible, but it's kind of there.
The parts I enjoyed the least were the parts with Bruce Wayne. Connecting this character to the world of superheroes felt strange, even though he is supposed to become a supervillain to Batman beyond the scope of the film. The film comes across as a dry, serious drama, but then Batman characters show up and it loses something. I'm not saying they shouldn't have done it though, since it would have felt weird not to do it.
Watching it as a 'silly superhero film' probably helps with those moments. Still though, I think it's a really good enjoyable movie. Superb acting, amazing attention to detail and wonderful cinematography. It just happens to share its world with superheroes, and that's fine.
I completely agree! I was frustrated by it at first, especially the weird idea that Batman and Joker could actually be related. But watching it knowing it’s got these big silly ideas, sort of made me settle into it more.
bruce's parents' murder scene was by far the best in the movie, i got chills despite not liking the movie as a whole
Jack, you nailed it with a single word. Pretending. "...not the serious film that is was pretending to be." Bullseye.
it is not too late to talk about joker
I didn't love the Joker, wanted some fun in a superhero movie, boy no fun there.
I loved it but have no desire to watch it again anytime soon was hard to watch, similar to how I feel about Requiem for a Dream just one and done
Something I forced myself to do with Joker was to watch it as I had no idea of what it was, because I just knew that I shouldn't have the previous Jokers in mind OR all of the critics reviews saying that this was the masterpiece of the century, because that would just ruin my whole judgement. But obv I couldn't be entirely oblivious, and the whole Bruce Wayne drama made it even harder. I really wanted to see this on the character development side only, but at some point I started to be overwhelmed by the phenomenon and couldn't even perceive my own feelings about the movie
It's a taxi driver-elf mix-up
I think the reason why people have come to take what Arthur says in this film so seriously is because he's the main character and people like to believe that there is always something to take away from your main character. It's much like a book series I've read called Red Rising (I won't go through the entire plot, but basically it's about classism in space) and the main character does some truly heinous things, but because you're reading it from his perspective, you can understand where he's coming from. Without that perspective, you'd be appalled by what he's done and that's the beauty of Joker: see it from his perspective for long enough and you begin to sympathize with him, forgetting the fact that he's not just insane, he's actually evil.
Another reason why The Joker and other villains in general can be so idolised is the same reason wrestling fans nowadays cheer for the Heel more than the Face: Babyfaces can often be boring, generic copies of each other, while most Heels can be as dynamic and different from each other as you can imagine. That's the reason why Batman is as popular as he is; because of his Rogues Gallery.
Wonderful summary of this film, I've got to say. I can definitely agree with you that it is more of a comic book film rather than a serious film and therefore more enjoyable that way. I like to think of it as one of Joker's "backstories" as he's said in The Killing Joke: "If I'm going to have a past, I'd prefer it to be multiple choice."
Love watching your videos. You're awesome sauce 👍🏻
I agree that Joker is very much a comic book movie. The film wears influences from The Killing Joke on it's sleeve.
But I heavily disagree that it's "silly". It's not. It uses the comic book movie medium to deliver meaningful themes just as The Killing Joke delivers themes.
Joker lives and breaths "DC Movie" insofar as it's a movie that isn't about growing and developing characters, but a movie about settings and characters of ideological or philosophical extremes, and how that affects a handful of real characters. In that way, Gotham in Joker is almost a dystopia. Instead of holding a mirror up to our society, or a past society, it distills a particular set of ugly acts in our society into a worst case scenario, and demonstrates the consequences of that.
Personally, I find this type of story much more interesting
i had to pause the video to comment about how the kissing noises right in my ear made me feel an indescribable emotion and i’m rather uncomfortable but also hella good mic i love it
As a filmmaker I loved what joker did mainly with the Cinematography syle and how it changes as Arthur fleck changes. As comic book fan I feel if DC made more films where delve into the darker side of the DC universe they whould be outperforming marvel.
The Lighthouse?
I think the scene of killing the Wayne parents was EXTREMELY unneeded. Like that’s so overdone, it doesn’t need to be in Joker because this film is not about batman. The Bruce Wayne side story was the main thing I didn’t like about the film, it should be a character study, not a conflict between joker and batman.
Never too late
To answer the title- no. I saw it about a month and a half ago so it's still a bit fresh in my mind. I don't like in depth reviews as soon as a film comes out because I rarely see movies opening week or even in theaters really, so I end up waiting to watch the review anyways.
It's not too late to talk about Parasite either ...
Best film of 2019
Lol Tfw quarantine happens and you finally talk about the joker
Never thought of it as a "big silly Batman villain movie", but I'm right there with you wrt the homages to canon. Rolled my eyes when they involved baby Bruce into this story, it was kind of distracting (the core of the story should rest between Arthur Fleck and Thomas Wayne at best) but my view on that changed once I took into account your point that it's really just one big homage to the lore surrounding Joker and Batman.
I think at least half the people that went to see the film in theatres knew it was being lauded for more than what it really was. It is basically a simple comic book character study with a glossy packaging that misleads people into thinking it's serious cinema. The story doesn't have a lot of substance, take away Joaquin Phoenix and it's average at best. But it might be a combination of people who went in with low expectations and then being surprised by the quality, and/or people who really really want a comic book movie to succeed and be recognised by the institution, that built up the hype surrounding this film.
Bingo!
Enjoy your mature reviews of these films
I think you have to take that new microphone for another spin.
This is the first video I've seen that perfectly explains how I feel about this movie, so many people wanted to say how important it is where as the whole time I did think the film was just this silly comic book movie that is driven purely by Joaquin's performance
I think Todd Philips did a good job overall but didn’t quite hit what he was going for. I think this is why I could never jump on the ‘it’s a masterpiece!!!’ bandwagon. A bit more subtlety in a few of the scenes wouldn’t have gone amiss.
I always find films that are "talked about" are always best going into without actually reading the articles that go under the headlines. Like we went to go see Joker cos my partner is a massive batman nerd and we'd both heard it was good from friends, watched the short trailer for the vibe check and went "yeah alright" (and it was also payday date night so yaknow, treat yo self) we really enjoyed it and found it disturbing and timely commentary on the Current World Situation (pre virus)
My point is why can't we just see films at face value, form our own opinions and then go seek articles after?
I understand that you enjoy picking films apart and watch them with certain goggles on for maximum enjoyment, but when was the last time you just sat down to a film just to watch it? (Or any media for that matter?)
Idk just some food for thought I enjoyed the video and the commentary :)
My favourite things about Joker are Joaquin Phoenix and the score 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Yeah! I don't tend to watch a lot of comic book movies. But this one looked serious and psychological, which is a go to for me. So I watched it. And... the whole time I was.... enjoying it, but also disappointed with it? It took me a while to figure out why. When it ended, I was discussing it with my S/O and came to the conclusion that it was a 'comic book' movie. And that it was done well as a 'comic book' movie. It just wasn't my taste because of it.
“reads video thumbnail” so were Batman Forever & Batman & Robin & BvS & Suicide Squad & we all saw how they all turned out
The movie feels like it was a character study of someone and then they decided to make that man the joker. That’s how I read it at least.
yes! I felt the same
Kate N it felt tacked on at the end it didn’t feel very Joker
@@liamross340 exactly!
never, jack, it’s never too late
Well, I don’t know if that was the punchline but
Has anyone seen The King of Comedy? The Scorsese film from 1982? I recently watched it and didn't realise how much Joker took from it
It incredible innit? What a perfect film!
yeah it is! Scorsese and De Niro at their finest
I agree with you on the last Jedi. But just so you know the Society meme was around since before the release of the joker film. Also the Society line in Joker is cringy, but not for the reasons you are saying. It's just a very edge lord generic line to give "the joker" especially when the film was built up for being amazing and grounded.
a big silly Batman villain movie. pretty much. but now I also want to see it done with more of Batman's villains. show me a traumatised Edward Nygma as a child because of the abusive father. show me Victor Fries losing his absolute life after his wife is diagnosed and he goes through the back alley channels to find any drus he can use to make a cure etc. but all in this style. gimme
A bit
lol I think the opposite..I think it was a regular movie disguised as a superhero movie just to get bums in seats. Your eventual change of opinion after 3 watches to reach a conclusion others got to after 1 or 2 just makes my point lol
Related to mental health stigmatization, I do agree with the fact that this movie helps people relate (once again, unfairly) violence with mental health issues. But, I also think the movie shows day-to-day problems people with chronic psiquistric disorders have to face in a society that constantly excludes them.
Yess Jack, finally someone talking about it, the movie, to me was sutil about it, but they didn’t want us to agree with the Joker. One thing I noticed that they did was use motifs (repetition with a purpose) through Arthur’s laughter. Whenever he laughs, for the whole movie, it’s a sad moment, we are being taught to associate his laughter to a bad feeling, loneliness, his damaged mental health so when we gets to the end of the movie and he laughs hysterically, that feeling sticks with you, the felling that something is wrong even if the character thinks it’s right
I think this film would (for me) would be more enjoyable if it wasn’t related and tied down to the Joker character, but just about a man slowly losing his sanity. I couldn’t help but think ‘the joker would or wouldn’t do that’ while watching it
I think (almost) not knowing anything about the "real" Joker is why I enjoyed the movie that much, I couldn't compare.
I imagined the 'real' comic book Joker would've just been tickled pink by the fact that this film was taken so seriously and some audience let themselves become uncomfortable by it.
For me its interesting that a lot of people focus on how the movie sends a message about how the mental health care services are underfunded and overwhelmed - and i saw that too! but a lot of times i felt distracted because i thought the therapist was horrible at her job. like when he said she never listens i actually agreed. she changed topics when he talked about his negative thoughts, didnt pick up on the things he actually opened up about. Worst was when in the last session she shut Arthur up and went "well boo-hoo Arthur I have it bad too, good bye, this was the last one". Which... was very human of her i guess but you cant just do that, especially with someone as unstable as Arthur? And i didn't like it because that made me sympathize with him more and i didnt want this to be a matter of "therapy doesnt actually help you".
I saw Joker after Parasite, which caused those silly moments to jar much more than if I'd seen Joker first, I think. It's like they take you out of the 'serious' movie, which, at the time, felt like a shame. Maybe seeing it again after Ragnarok with popcorn would help...
Exactly
Okay Jack hear me out, even if you don't watch or even like anime films I have 3 recommendations for you that any film lover should watch.
1) Spirited Away
Have you ever wanted to see a film that is essentially a girl transitioning into a woman in the most beautiful and wacky way that only a child could think of. A beautiful journey of how important it is to appreciate what you have and the people you have around you.
2) Your Name (Kimi No Na Wa)
A film that you first think is going to be a corny body swap teen film like freaky Friday, turns into two characters you truly care about. You want everything to work for them, you want them to find themselves. I won't say any more as it would probably ruin the beauty of this film.
3) A Silent Voice
Jesus where do I begin, a story about a boy that bullied a deaf girl in school. After she left the school he was bullied himself, fully understanding that this is what he deserved for all the wrongs he's caused. After this self hatred grows he gets suicidal, but rather than him killing himself he tries to re ignite his passion for life by writing his past wrongs. This is an extremely boiled down and cliché sounding film but honestly it is really worth the watch.
To anyone reading this thanks for taking time out of your day and I truly belive weather you like anime or not these 3 films are something you should watch if you like films in general.
new mic is C R I S P
After listening to the amazing reviews given by the media, I'd say I was fooled...
The Joker definitely missed the mark on tonality and I agree with a lot of other comments that even if it is a super hero movie it cant hide behind then when it clearly pitched itself to be taken seriously. Though I will say a lot of the people who roast this movie's only argument is that the joker is corny and I think he is in universe. That's the whole point.
I personally don’t think that Joker’s political commentary is undercooked or muddled. I think the film achieves exactly what Todd Phillips was trying to achieve which is an adolescent teenage boy screech of “Isn’t everything shit?”
I’ve seen people try and claim that Joker is anti-capitalist and whilst there are some scenes which clearly criticise capitalism the climax of the movie ends by criticising those demonstrating against capitalism and society so that doesn’t work.
However, I don’t think that this is in any way because the film is undercooked or that it’s not accurately portraying the message it wishes to. The whole film is just angry at everything and isn’t willing to make a concrete message or statement about anything.
Yeah sure the film tries to say that the mental health system is underfunded and that if only it was adequate the Joker wouldn’t kill people (as if that’s even close to the biggest problem with an underfunded mental health service). But Arthur is pretty damaged from the beginning of the film. It doesn’t feel like we’re watching a preventable mental deterioration, Arthur ends the film as mentally unwell as he started but with a higher body count.
The film is just nasty, it doesn’t have anything constructive to say about anything and isn’t even really ready to point out the problems. I’ve got no problem with a negative movie but there’s a difference between everything is shit and here’s why and what the Joker achieves which is saying that everything and everyone is shit for no real reason. This nastiness is present in almost every decision in the film even down to including a Gary Glitter song for no apparent reason.
It’s fine for the film to criticise the Joker for saying “we live in a society” but the film says exactly the same thing imo. The film has no more nuance in its understanding of society than Arthur.
TL;DR: Joker is the filmic personification of White male rage and I just don’t have time for that.
why can't it be a serious movie and a comic book movie? I feel like people don't think there are any serious dark comics. and Jack has read the Killing Joke so he knows that it can be dark and real. I think they blended the genres well.
Ngl I went to the cinema to see this then had to leave half way through. No worries, I thought, I’ll stream it online. Started watching it a few weeks later online, got a bit further through it then FELL ASLEEP. Re-watched it for the third time and fell asleep AGAIN. It’s not meant to be. Still haven’t watched it to the end.
Yeah sure, since the protagonist himself was cynical, not mentally sound and dark, the film's tone was dark but... A good story as mentioned in Story by Robert McKee should have a reversal in emotional states by the end of the story. If the protagonist is pessimistic and has a certain way of life, his journey throughout the story should make him appreciate the other side and turns him around in a cathartic way. It's okay to do a character study with conviction as done in Joker but to say that cynicism was the point then that's not a good enough reason to make the film last timelessly. I'm sorry but I do have to side with your friend Mark on this one.
I think your point about the director not agreeing with the joker, and thus the audience shouldnt, is..... muddled at best.
During the climactic show scene, joker condemns the audience for arbitrarily deciding what is and isnt funny.
This is INCREDIBLY similar to things that the director has said in interviews. This makes the joker feel almost like a mouth piece for the director, and since the director slipped in something he does believe, it makes me wonder what else he believes in that scene