Get Your Facts Straight Because Alexander The Great Was Not
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Many users on X believe that Alexander the Great was wrongfully depicted as gay in the Netflix series documenting his life. However, Netflix might actually be historically correct on this one.
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The concept of the greeks being gay is the most misunderstood part of history that there is. Whenever the Athenian or spartan called eachother boy lovers, it posed to be a insult. They were even depicted their enemies engaging in those acts as an insult as well.
LGBTs sempre existiram, você é homofóbica infelizmente
Not really though. They were a very promiscuous people. Often times the way it would happen is the young men would compete in front of the older men, and the older men would pick a young man and begin to court him. Zeus is also recorded to have had a young cupbearer, I believe Ganymede was his name, that he was having an affair with as well. These things are well recorded and there are lots of pottery and works from them depicting these scenes.
Edit: instead of people just saying I'm wrong, consider that there is evidence to support my claim and that there are researchers who seem to think thus way. I am not making it up. Please research it on your own instead of telling me I'm wrong.
Edit 2: The term for it is Pederasty if you want to research it.
Edit: Here is a good article on it, that also encompasses what the Greeks did find to be perverse.
stmuscholars.org/ancient-greek-pederasty-education-or-exploitation/#
In that case 1000 years in the future someone will dig up 4chan logs and will say everyone there was a homosexual, because they all called each other a "fa*got"
Speak louder friend, they cannot hear facts. 👏🏻
Metatron went in-depth with this misunderstanding.
I think it was 500+ accounts of homosexuality depictions cited in that era, and only about 21 of those had any grounds.
As far as Alexander's appearance, he is described as having blonde hair, one eye blue and the other black and fair skin. Some say that his hair was a reddish blonde and his complexion was ruddy. Not unusual in Macedon, I understand. To say he was of darker skin and hair because he was "Mediterranean" would be a mistake. Love your videos.
So as far as history is concerned, Alexander the Great had heterochromia? Two different eye colors?
Macedonians are the epitome of European beauty in the classical sense. Like David by Leonardo. They were not Caribbean or North-African looking at all.
What’s your source? I’m pretty sure in Plutarch he’s described as having brown hair (though at the end of the day we’ll never really know). There’s also that famous Roman mosaic of him fighting with Darius that to me strikes a more possible image (using his likeness on coins as a point of comparison)
Not really. There's actually only 1 source that depicted Alexander having blonde hair. The rest of it were brown hair or dark brown hair.
You have no idea what youre talking about....LOL
I have been a history professor for 27 years, one thing I can say is don't trust Hollywood for accurate History. 🤣 If there are history buffs here, I have all my lectures up as a free resource! Tons of homeschoolers have been using them.
The only time I have subscribed to a random account. Based solely on " I have history lectures, come watch". Ty.
@@DramaHeart Awesome! I love teaching history. Hope you enjoy them!
My son is going to love this!! He is only 7 but he scores at a 4th and 5th grade level. He is homeschooled and I have been trying find resources for History and Science 💕
subbed!
@christaljohnson9871 homeschoolers are amazing! They have been some of my best students. He may be young for my videos, I would love to know if he grasps the content. As he watches them leave comments to let me know.
I am Greek and i am frustrated that Hollywood uses these historical figures for profit instead of honouring them.
Instead of making an accurate documentary about the military genius Alexander was and inspired so many they focus on his bed life.. pathetic to say the least.. without accurate sources of course.
Love in Greek language is also for platonic, erotic, romantic etc. and male friendships were seen very important. They will say that they weren't labels back then, and while that's true, many forget that same sex relationships were criticised and ridiculed in society. Powerful men though took advantage of "teaching" younger boys to become "men" so you understand the corruption of the system already.
That makes the false stereotype that many ancient Greeks were gay even though that's not even historically accurate and Hollywood as always took advantage of these for profit.
I know it's not the topic of the video but how did you feel about black Zeus in Percy Jackson?
@@BradLad56I just about lost my shit when I saw that. Disney just loves pissing people off.
Eh, many ancient Greeks WERE gay. As were many ancient Romans, Persians, etc. Ask yourself one thing, did the cult of Dionysus do Greeks any favors with the stereotyping? Not really.
@@justforfunsies5000 from historical records it is indeed proven that many ancient civilizations had gay relationships. But the point is that in ancient Greece it was still viewed in a judgemental way unless the men were powerful people, then society didn't bat an eye. (Often predatory relationships unfortunately)
But also they were male friendships and platonic love is equally important that's my take. Things back there didn't have labels like now but there's a wide misunderstanding (often many memes now) that ancient Greek men were a majority gay without having reliable sources.
The problem is when people spread misinformation that's the main concern because i am about speaking about the variety of relationships in ancient civilizations as long they stay true to the sources
@@BradLad56 my opinion of course as Greek myself that i don't approve of this choice. The actor was amazing but my criticism goes always to the companies especially Disney.
The series promote American diversity, however Hollywood fails to realise the importance of ethnic diversity. It would make sense to cast Greeks, Greek-Americans or at least Mediterranean people. The same goes to the kids from the camp.
Again no hate to any actor, the problem lies on the greedy corporations who don't value other countries or try to be respectful, because to them Greek mythology is an aesthetic.
For example it wouldn't make sense to have Chinese mythology figures have a black deity. So why is Greek mythology always the exception?
Historian here. First of all - the topic is well discussed in science and i can always just say: Read the books, inform yourself before you give an opinion and then educate yourself with these informations in a scholary context. A good, if old, book to start would be "greek homosexuality" by Kenneth Dover.
Alexander was not heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual or any other type of sexualities we as modern folks have. Sexuality was not thought of in the way we think about it today. We know little of the ancient world, because most of what was written was either to defame or flatter the person who was written about and we dont have diaries of these people. To come to the most pressing matter at hand: Alexander did most certainly have relations with guys and women. Thats a fact.
Now to put this in context: Homosexual activities between adults where not commonly accepted (there are exceptions though!) and seen favourably by the people of the time. The most common form was paiderastia between an eromenos (young boy) and an erastes (man). The roots of this practice was a rite of passage by having a socially high standing adult showing a growing man the world and the way culture works. Penetrative sexual acts where frowned upon though because it "degraded" the passive part (and relegated them being in the position of women, who - lets keep in mind - where not really on the same social level as the men because they where not allowed to vote and had to stay home mostly). The Athenians for example called the spartans "womanfolk" because women had more rights there compared to the other greek world and it was of course meant as an insult.
Another, more rarely found example of accepted same-sex relationships was the warbands, like the sacred bands of Thebes exclusively made up from male lovers, which in turn strenghtened their bonds and loyalty towards each other in battle. BUT - ands its a big but! - we know that society at that time was really invested in cultivating a specific male ideal which focused on having children and creating families. Passive homosexual activities where frowned upon a lot (see Aristophanes) and was not generally accepted. There are exceptions though, like Thebes, but this is the only exception we know of. Even in the greek mythology its always an adult male who has a relationship with a far younger person (Achilles / Patrocolos for example), while gods are not men and are above social human constructs (like Zeus or Apollo sleeping with every guy available)
This comment should be upvoted more, as a fellow historian these are the facts. We cannot apply anachronisms to elite macedonian society in alexander’s time.
What a bunch of Shit. Hetero and Homo have been around since creation. So, All the Herero's from the past were not really that? Only the Homo's get this "does not apply" treatment. It is so transparent.
Also, to be fair when I learned about Alexander the great in school (a few months ago) We didn't learn that he was gay. We learned that he was a great ruler who had a really great game plan and conquered more land than any ruler ever. Which earned him the title the great.
I'm a history teacher, and I hate to break it to you, but Alexander was definitely not straight. I can't tell my students that though, because they aren't mature enough to handle that fact.
@@michaelvanderwal7390Citation needed.
@@michaelvanderwal7390Except he was. And you're wrong.
Subutai (general of Genghis Khan) conquered more nations (more than 30) and covered more land than Alexander The Great. Just learned about him today.
@@kennymichaelalanya7134 cringe and not important.
this was not the episode I was expecting today
Same
fr
Pleasantly surprised as well, eyyy??
She's wrong. Literally no evidence Alex was gay. That kiss was him being dared to kiss the dude during a party. LOL.
@@Uhtredrag1080 true. the reason we have all these things popping up in "history" is because the historians themselves, if you can call them that, have all gone woke. the nonsense they're spewing out has little to no basis in actual history
Make it lame and gay. That’s the modern agenda for every show/movie these days
The Panderverse 😭
Yup! God bless you in the name of Jesus Christ, who is the name above all names & the only way to Heaven❤
Whether he was gay or not, why does it even matter? The actual problem with this fixation on him being gay, as if it's a major character element, is part of a big reason for why modern writing has lost its quality.
Focus on depth, when it comes to character development, not shallow nonsense. When I see stuff like this, I see a detail that needs to be pushed as far as possible to the surface for it to be blatantly obvious and inarguable. But does anyone know what actually makes a deep character? It's when you can argue for hours about what they're doing or what their behavior is. It's when it invites discussion. That's depth.
Sometimes that’s not good enough, Owl House had quite the lgbtq characters and it still got cancelled despite getting extremely high ratings. I guess the message wasn’t pushed enough, it had a good story line.
Put a chick in it and make her gay!
I'm Greek and I totally disagree with the "how the things work" in ancient Greece. I recommend you the video of Metatron "The TRUTH About LGBTQ+ in Ancient Greece - Once and for all" that explains the facts in English so its easier for you to understand.
It’s simple it does not need a video were they having sex with men… yes . As a Greek should you be ashamed….NO . That simple
Do you believe that idiot wants to learn the truth? They are a bred of the system.
Yep!!! He is telling the truth!!!
Leather Apron Club did also a number of videos on the issue and he actually presented history even better than Metatron.
It's funny to me how many people don't know history but like to speak on it.
Well he was described as blonde and apparently didn't discriminate with regards to his sexual appetites but that's not what's important in regards to him. What is important is that he went from Macedonia to Anatolia to Egypt and through Persian to the brinks of Indian becoming King of all in only 9 years. He was Great. There's a reason Napoleon is considered the greatest general since Alexander.
He really wasn't described that way. But your story is cool too
The descriptionof blonde are after his death and to make him closer to a god. During life or close to it reports were brown. There is even a painting from his life time that depicted him with brown hair. The eye part is similar to think the only description was one blue eye and one brown, but it’s after death so it’s hard to know for sure.
Him being gay is not historical to his time because the term exist. You just had sex with everyone basically but marriage was for women and men only.
@@boyeatsworld-vr9ciactually, yes he was.
@@tedfebo1741 he was not.
@@boyeatsworld-vr9ci 😂😂😂😂
In 200 years people will be saying the English always had dark skin.
No need to wait. Few years ago, some "historians" claimed that there was an ancient native Brit woman who was Black. The BBC pushed that agenda so hard, they even made a statue for her, depicted her as a Black woman.
About a year later, it was discovered that she wasn't Black. She wasn't even an African at all. She came from Cyprus.
They are doing it now.
That's evolution, bruh
@@noctambule5726 No, that's pretending the past was different than it was.
@noctambule5726 cope harder. All that cheddarman bullshit was debunked like a day after the story came out.
He was just kissing the homies goodnight.
🤣🤣
🤣🤣🤣
Like the GREAT bro he is, epic.
bruh😂😂😂 you win.
Irony works when is based on truth otherwise is exposing the ignorance and spitefulness of the one attempting to use it...
Even if he was gay. He was still a Badass. And from what I have read, he liked women and men.
Yeah he was attracted to both sexes according to history his best friend Henpesition and Roxane so he was gay and straight and the same time
The problem with Alexadros is that most what we know about him was written a hundred years after his death.
"We can't escape anything sexual anywhere"
Why did you describe my day yesterday? My coworkers yesterday kept playing songs about promiscuous women asking for *things* to happen to them, using explicit language to describe things. Why do they think that's appropriate to play in a workplace?! I'm sick and tired of other people's sexuality! Keep it in the bedroom!!!
This is why I’ve never accepted the argument “why is it any of your business what other people do in the confines of their bedroom” as a legitimate argument. Because they cannot keep it confined to their bedroom.
Omg you're a good girl shiva
Sue the company!! That is mental and emotional torment!!
@@talongreenlee7704 So you blame all the people who don't because of the few ones who do, makes total sense 😒
@@queenpanda26 because of the overwhelming majority that can’t.
Well, yes and no, there's a great video of Metatron debunking many of the myths about the Greeks and homosexuality. There has always been homosexuals within every society, but they were not really glorified or anything.
Alexander himself might have been gay, tho. It's still debated.
Plato and Xenophon disagreed on homosexuality
@@matityaloran9157 Precisely. And those were not really your run of the mill Greeks, those were the intellectual elite.
@@nicolasandresmartinez-cond126 True, though I’m not sure how we could gauge general popular opinion of the time given it was people like Plato and Xenophon who wrote their opinions down
@@matityaloran9157 True enough, it's what we can get our hands on, but I'd say that their opinions have to be taken with a grain of salt.
@@nicolasandresmartinez-cond126 Fair.
Ah Brett, Mediterranean people weren’t always dark skinned.
Alexander had hair the colour of a “lions mane”.
History is rewritten every day
This isn’t rewriting history
Coming from a brown skinned Indian, Alexander the Great was not a colonizer.. Yes, he pursued greatness through the expansion of his empire but that was to fulfil his believed destiny as a god amongst men. Alexander was criticized by some of his soldiers for not imposing his Macedonian culture onto his newfound subjects. His army settled all over and became a little more of everything else. The Ptolemy’s became more Egyptian, the Bactrian Empire arose in Central Asia, they took on new identities.
He literally colonized everywhere he went. It's called Hellenization. Not that there's anything wrong with colonization.
@@herbie_the_hillbillie_goatthis is actually absolutely wrong with coloniazation but indefence of Alexander those were ancient times and to built his empire he did colonized civilizations
You had to say you're brown skinned indian.
@@zuhasajid900 There's nothing wrong with colonization. It sure beats total conquest. Would you rather your people get food, medicine, and science, or that they be conquered? Civiizations are not altruistic.
@@herbie_the_hillbillie_goatWhere are you from, may I ask?
at best ancient greeks were poly amorous. Same sex relationships sometimes had a sexual component but that was part of their cultural practices of mentorship. When they called each other 'boy lovers' it was as an insult. the idea that the ancient world was some gay/bi world is deliberately overblown
As a Greek, I can testify that @richardy2071 is posting false information on the internet
If there’s a sexual component, those dudes are gay.
It was their culture to use boys. Alexander had boys and was used as a boy. It would be neive to think otherwise.
If it was such an insult and negative why display it so much in their art and on their artefacts ... nobody here wants to pretend it was an lgbtqxyzhttp heaven, lets just say they were a bit like us, its was accepted yet not the norm and they had a special place and role in their society, thats it ...
Ancient greeks were 99% percent straight, perverts exist in every society so yeah gays may have existed in ancient Greece too
History major here! Contrary to what Netflix has presented, Alexander the Great was most likely not gay, but rather engaged in the practice of pederasty which was a popular phenomenon in Ancient Greece. Pederasty was essentially when an older man of great influence (such as Alexander) would mentor young boys in “all aspects of manhood”. Close to all of these pederastic relationships included sexual elements and had nothing to do with one’s sexual identity as it was a common cultural practice at the time, as messed up as it was.
Yes, you've explained better than anyone else here what I recall being told about it many years ago.
That's gay. Netflix was unwatchable, but what you describe is gay.
No, it isn't. When you're not attracted to men, you're not gay. And supposedly, he wasn't.
He wasn’t didn’t do that either
A pederasty involving sexual elements was shunned and those who did it could be jailed/executed. Maybe find a more comprehensive education on the matter, yours seems to have been biased towards modernity.
"Get your facts straight." Procedes to completely fuck up the facts.
Nah, Alexander didn't just not have sex with men, in fact he mostly abstained from sex with women too. He said that true men should get away from indulging in temporary desires and focus on ethical values, which are permanent. When a king from Taras said he would "gift him two young boys" Alexander said he was "disgusted" and that he couldn't be strayed from his ways by such a vile practice
I literally dropped Netflix when they made Red Riding Hood in the TV series Once Upon a Time a gay character.
Once upon a time is not a Netflix original.
@@Cherrypie626 I know it's ABC disney, but it was airing on Netflix and I was paying Netflix to view it. Netflix puts it out there, I no longer subscribe
@@RussellRobinson971So you dropped it just because of one show, why not just not watch that particular show, there’s so much other stuff on Netflix to watch . It’s not like it’s the only show on Netflix to watch .
You the real snowflake if you dropped a whole show just because one character is gay
IIRC, Plutarch lived 300 years after Alexander. I wouldn't trust any account that old. The only contemporaneous account I have seen referenced is Alexander taking offense that someone thought he might enjoy the company of a young boy.
I am sure scholars have more reason to believe what they do than that, but given the state of a lot of our institutions of learning it wouldn't suprise me either way. I should go look up more information.
If we can’t trust an ancient gossip columnist who can trust though?!?!
Be aware of slanted translations, the Ancient Greece was not some gay heaven, these kinds of relations were frowned upon.
Certainly was not unheard of. Paul described such behavior in Romans, attributing it to the fallen nature all mankind is born into.
4 mill people with their head on straight. there is hope...
Ancient Greek men (not all of them of course) often had same-sex relationship with younger male most of the time. The ancient Greeks did not view sexual orientation as a social identity like how we do today. Having a male lover was fine, but they were expected to have a wife and procreate.
I’m just surprised they didn’t make us Persians ebony.
No, Brett. Greeks in those days had blonde hair and blue eyes before they mixed.
Yep. Blondes were mush more likely to be lactose tolerant at that time - milk and cheese for the win.
Blue eyes were extremely common among nobility all over the world. Even Buddha had blue eyes. So Mediteranean people, certainly. Also, caucasians were a lot more spread out in the Mediteranean & even in Northern Africa & parts of the Middle East, as well as Turkey & Iran, before the Arab invasions.
Your definition of blonde and theirs is way different 😂. They weren't blonde . They had dark hair and olive skin tone . Where did you get the mixed ?
Actually, you have that confused.
The aboriginal people of the land area we call Greece had dark hair, skin and eyes. Remaining remnants of their culture has been found mainly on Crete, although some examples do exist on the mainline. (Interestingly, the Minoan Civilization which was located on Crete, is the earliest known civilization to have both multi-rooms for the general population and indoor plumbing.)
Then, around 1550 BCE, an invading force which contained people with light hair, skin and eyes, entered from the north, bringing their stratified warrior culture and language (which would eventually supplant the indigenous language and become Greek and Ancient Macedonian) and conquered the area, setting themselves up as its rulers. (Point of interest: the whole Troy saga happened during this era.)
Around 1150 BCE, a second invading force containing these light hair, skin and eyed 'foreigners' followed, again conquering the area but went one step further and also destroyed all political organization and culture, setting off a Dark Age devoid of trade, art, writing, ect which lasted over three hundred years. It was after this that the city-states rose, including Sparta and Athens, culture began to flourish again, they learned writing from the Phoenicians (Homer wrote the Iliad and Odysseus during this time of change) and the beginnings of political theory, including democracy, can be seen.
(People like to cry about the colonialism/imperialism/whatever of the British Empire but we white folk were running around conquering indigenous people long before that. Whenever you hear about traditionally dark peoples saying they have fair people too, they do. But not because it was naturally a part of their genetic heritage, it's because sometime between three to four thousand years ago, we expanded outward from the Ural Mountain area in Russia, proceeded to invade and conquer at least a segment of their land and population, supplanted whatever language was already there with our own and left them some of our DNA.)
So, given that Alexander the Great lived around eight hundred years AFTER all that, he could have had dark hair, skin and eyes or fair hair, skin and eyes or any combination of those and we won't know definitively until one of archaeologists excavating Alexandria find his body.
stupid comment
All I know is he made a pass at me once in a bathhouse in Aegea. I tell you more about it but he made me sign an NDA. I still have the stone it was written on somewhere here in my Larnax. Long story short, his flame is bigger than Prometheus.
LOL
There are blonde and fair skin in south Europe
I'm gonna wait for a Metatron video about this. He is one of the few people who I trust about ancient history
He did one addressing homosexuality in ancient Greece
ua-cam.com/video/GbOKIsMuNWU/v-deo.html
He made a video about how gay ancient Greece really was (not) a few months ago and one about how Alexander looked last week (that also covered the armor/weapons visible in the preview).
The only thing that's always historically accurate, is we needed Jesus then, and boy do we need Him now.
I do have to disagree. As an old-school Asatruer, we don't need Christianity to have values.
Wait until you see Hallmark's casting choices for the Sense and Sensibility remake.
Netflix being Netflix! 😅😅😂
NetFlix being woke. But at least their choice was not a black person.
ps, Cleo was Macedonian too. Her great grandfather was one of Alexander's generals.
@@phillipanderson7398 But Alex was gay or at least bi, do you read history books besides American history
He had a wife too. Kinda negates him being gay. @@magicalpasta5462
What part of Cleopatra being Macedonian too and one of her great grandfathers being Alexander's generals is " American History " ?@@magicalpasta5462
@@phillipanderson7398 He also took a VERY long time to get married, and a lot of historians say he took so long because he was uninterested in women. It is quite possible he only got married because he figured he needed a male heir.
The problem is that modern shows and movies revolve solely around sexuality. They are more concerned about how bent Alexander the Great was, and not about his exploits. Imagine centering a series around sexuality when the protagonist is literally the greatest conquerer of all time.
Congrats on the 4M!!!! You deserve it. Keep being humble and relatable. I have seen almost every video and I am back everyday to check the news! Hugs from Portugal
I think the only thing inaccurate here is how gentle they were being in that clip.
People who think we shouldn't call Alexander the Great "Great" are idiots. He was obviously not called that because he was "great", because he was "good", he was called that because of his huge achievements. "Great" means an extent, amount, or intensity considerably above average (and his impact was above average), we didn't call the First World War the "Great War" because it was "good", it is important to understand that thee meaning has changed over time, and now something "good" is referred to as "great".
Nope. The Greeks actually dispised effeminate "takers." It was shameful to be a bottom in ancient Greece and it was still gross to be a top.
To be fair you don’t have to like the fact that homosexuality exists. But it does and it did. And was a lot more common in ancient times then a lot of people want to admit. It’s just the fact that in modern TV it’s always pushed all the time when we watch something historical. It’s kind of the last thing we want to see. But to be completely fair we know the Greeks, the Romans, the Egyptians, even the Vikings many Native American tribes, certain ethnic groups in India, all had many many recored times/people/incidences of homosexuality, lesbianism and other such things. The reason there is more speculation than fact is because before the 1900s there wasn’t really a word for being gay, or for being a lesbian or for being transgender.
Since when kissing your homie goodnight is gay?
Netflix has made greek history toilet 🧻
It is historically accurate to assume that any historical figure had sex, that doesn't mean that every movie about them should show the actual act..
Congrats on 4 mil!! You and your team deserve it so much!
I am Greek and I have to say that this whole thing that "Ancient Greek people were all gay" is stupid. In ancient Greece who you having sex with was no big deal like it is now. The only thing that mattered about personal relationships was family. Basically who you having your children with. So yes, Alexander the Great may have gotten in sexual acts with men but back then, what really mattered, was going into war. Basically saying do your own thing inside your bedroom but you have to fight for your country
Greeks weren't "constantly fruity" ... They were using that as an insult and it was highly illegal. They even had strict dietary restrictions and religious laws. Such a society was more like fundamentalist theocracy rather than us thinking of mythology-believing party-orgy-people. Alexander was probably not a homosexual either -- he just loved his battle buddies.
Who was trying to insult them exactly?
No it wasn’t how we think of gay people in modern times. To my understanding what they didn’t except was certain types of men in the submissive role. They would definitely use that as an insult that was done against Julius. His detractors would say he was catching in his homosexual relationship which was a no no for man in his position. Romans would say that type of stuff to whoever fill in the blank. The known would probably be Nero, Caligula, Tiberius, and Elagabalus, sure more. That was just one of the insults they used. Same s3x relationships were fine they just needed fit within the social framework.
Homosexual relationships weren’t illegal you just couldn’t get married, that was definitely illegal. The Greeks were little laxed on certain aspects of this kind relationship specifically with military, even the Romans thought was weird. With all of history something’s are not out right said but implied.
I recommend the Anabasis of Alexander by Arrian for further reading if interested!
Don’t take history lessons from Brett Cooper.
3:45, they compared themselves to Patroclus and Achilles (though even then it was debated if Patroclus and Achilles were homosexual or not)
Achilles and Patroclus never existed as real people. They were mthyical characters. Some ancient authors wrote them as lovers and others did not.
They we’re not lovers in the original story
@@neonsamurai4604 Mythology has no "original source".There is no agreed upon canon version of the trojan war or any mythical event for that matter. Everything the ancient Greeks believed is part of Greek Mythology. We have only the ealiest surving source, which is the iliad by Homer. But even the illiad was written down centuries after the Trojan war supposedly happened. Homer did not create Achilles as a character. The story of the Trojan War was passed down orally, and Homer is only the first person whose account we have. But even in Homer's time there would have been different accounts of the Trojan War.
@@neonsamurai4604 I know. But Plato’s Symposium interprets then as lovers even then Xenophon’s Symposium argues against this view
@@kreolado5880 Schliemann found that the Trojan War was a real phenomenon and that would imply that the people who fought in the war were real. Maybe they had the Homeric names, maybe they didn’t. Maybe they were real but so mythologized that they became basically fictional characters (like King Arthur) and maybe they weren’t. Though Plato and Xenophon did disagree as to if Patroclus and Achilles should be interpreted as a homosexual couple
Honestly, I don't blame people for being skeptical. You can't trust any of these documentaries. People are so obsessed with labels now that they find any excuse to call someone gay or trans.
Actually, Italy's northern parts, like Sicily, have been known to have blonde hair and blue eyes
"Call me by your name or alexander the great" I spit my water out
They definitely did overplay the homosexuality. Yeah he had close companions and Greeks were loose in sexual relations. However they definitely took GREAT artistic liberties in the portrayal for Modern audiences. I still liked it, binged all of the episodes in 1 night. ATLEAST they had appropriate casting... I never even bothered watching the Cleopatra Netflix doc.
Again, the race of the actors doesn't really matter. I don't care if the actor is black, white, Asian, gay etc. But when the show portrays a clear lie as truth (ie tells me that the historical personality himself was gay/black or whatever, when he wasn't) then thats just crazy
Next thing you know crapflix is going to tell you that Joan of Arc was transgender.
"It's just two dudes makin out, RELAX!" - Stewie Griffin
If no accounts of Alexander's sexuality existed, Netflix would have made him gay anyway.
About the 8:13 comment. Isn't that true though? I mean, I love Alexander's story, amazingly complicated man. Amazing conquests, amazing everything.
But should a "Great" person be one who drags his country to war, killing hundreds of thousands of enemies (soldiers and civilians) and indirectly, thousands of his own people?
I mean, I believe if we think objectively, Antoninus Pius for one (Roman emperor who started no wars and just focused on the growth of the Empire), isn't more deserving of the title "Great" than Alexander? But insted he is just known by history lovers and Alexander is "the Great".
I find it fascinating that the people we call "Great" and idolize, are the people that did what nowadays would be considered as terrible things such starting wars for x motive, but the ones who are more objectively "good" we just pass by.
Exactly. As someone who's never left Nigeria, a former colony, it's not great. We : a group of kingdoms that used to fight each other and even enslave one another, where brought together as a country and given a name without our consent. 7 years after independence, we are in a war and our loving "Mummy" UK gives their support to their favorite Northerners, (who they Nigeria with as an inheritance). And they killed a lot of people, these are just added to the people who died in precolonial resistance (ie the Benin massacre). Reparations should be done, simply return our artifacts but no!! Colonialism was great and necessary 🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️ Did you think to try another way? What if the Native Americans weren't killed? 🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️
I mean, overall it seemed accurate according to my classes besides the gay scene. I straight up skipped it but other than that it seemed accurate. I was surprised that Alexander wasn’t black.
Achilleus was in the latest Troy series...
Imagine being a young general who faced the most brutal battles and conquered the ends of the earth. Just to be called gay by so called Hollywood experts and historians have Weird phd.
Imagine if Netflix would produce a movie about Hitler and they revealed that he's a Jew and there'll be an outrage over social media. 🤑🤣
Yes and no, Brett. Men who only had "relations" with men were mocked in the Hellenic world.
I have the feeling that producers think if they don’t put any gay or lesbian love scene in the first episode of a new series it won’t be successful. Just sad.
This show is not about Alexander the Great. This show is about to Alexander the Gay.😂
Alexander is not cosidered bisexual because there is no serious historical/ archaeological proof on that matter. This was not the ancient Greek way, that's LGBT+ propaganda and a way for NF to gain views and money. End of story.
Oliver Stone's pic is still the best depiction of Alexandros III King of Macedon, even with all the gay stuff.
The battle depictions and Babylon alone take the cake...
Yes never understood why it got panned. I did not think it was too bad at all
@@glenchapman3899 The media hates him for his Vietnam record...
@ 8:29. Brett, how do you know Alexander the Great was an “incredible warrior and explorer who literally changed history?” Yes, the history books tell us this, but we should know, by now, that since the history books aren’t always accurate, assuming he was actually “Great” isn’t really the best course. He might have been “Great”, but I’d rather not take that as my viewpoint until I speak with someone who actually witnessed the rise of Alexander to becoming “the Great”, which, of course, is impossible. Yes, Greece became the best form of itself during his reign, but who is to say that Alexander actually played a part in it? We are all too quick to trust. That’s why so many sheep got the “vaccine”.
Classicist here: homosexuality was a part of ancient greek society (depends on the location/culture as this is a large period of history and geography). According to some sources Alexander had both female and male concubines. But at the end of the day, these people would have been there to serve him regardless of sexual "uses". I take the same mindset that I do with Achilles. There's conflicting evidence about sexual orientation but at the end of the day there's two things you have to consider: 1) their identity was not found in their sexual orientation, so the cultural mindset was very different.
2) there was no moral reason for why a powerful leader couldn't have female and male concubines/sex slaves (unlike the Judeo-Christian beliefs) - in the case of Patroclus, it could go either way (friend or lover) but sexuality doesn't define these people
At the end of the day, I wouldn't exactly call it a positive representation of modern sensibilities when concubines/sex slaves and other such people hardly had any rights 🤷
The Greeks were pd files. They had boys.
Lucky then that Alexander was not Greek
@glenchapman3899 Ah, former king of ancient Greek Kingdom of Macedon.
@@imajesusgirl7546 Sorry the Macedonians never considered themselves Greek. And the Greeks always considered them uncouth barbarians. It was one of the reasons he slayed every Greek solider he came up against during his campaigns.
you think every single greek man was a pedophile? that’s stupid
@imajesusgirl7546 Yeah, first of all, not true.
Secondly, the Greeks laid the foundations of the Western civilisation that you enjoy, so maybe don't bite the hand that fed you and so many of your ancestors?
The greeks threw around the "your gay" insult from both athenians and spartans, but now that people think of the greeks as a single entity instead of the city states they used to be makes it seem like they were talking to themselves
The upper class of the Greeks and Macedonians, the males, were allowed to bisexual, but no one was allowed to be openly gay. Bachelorhood was frowned upon and males were expected to be father's and husband's. No big deal.
Why do people get so offended by the possibility of Alexander having a relationship with Heph??? There was more explicit scene of Alex and Stateira but nobody bats an eye. It's not like the documentary focuses on their relationship either. Gay people literally can't just exist without people acting like its some sort of propaganda or "wokeness". its not that deep you'll be fine
Because it distorts their Idea of what an ideal male figure can be, they obsess over these male figures like super heroes or fictional characters and are shocked when their childish expectations do not reflect reality.
why do christians and conservatives allways have to cry about boys kissing, its no huge deal
By the way, it is NOT generally accepted amongst historians that he had sexual relations with men. We really don’t know. There are conflicting accounts that either disprove it or support it. For example, there is an account of him encountering a Caucasian tribe, which presented a group of eunuchs for him to sleep with. According to the account, he was insulted and ordered that the entire tribe be slaughtered. All these different accounts conflict with each other. As such, we can’t prove it from those accounts alone.
The only thing that we know for absolute certain is that he slept with women. Whilst the accounts for him sleeping with men conflict with each other, there is essentially none of that when talking about him sleeping with women.
It is absolutely possible for him to have been BISEXUAL, but again, the only thing we know for certain is that he slept with women.
Well said 👏 Yes, we can't rule out much when it comes to many historical figures of the Ancient world, but the onus is on the person speculating something like Alexander's sexual orientation to actually support their ideas with evidence. There isn't enough to do so, so Netflix really shouldn't have just made him outright gay/bisexual within the first 8 mins of the series. But they have an agenda to push, so that took priority over historical objectivity.
All the rest aside, the person who called Alexander stupid probably still resides in their parents’ basement, and Alexander had turned the whole known world into his domain by his early thirties.
I highly recommend the Campaigns (or Anabasis) of Alexander. Excellent original source material for those interested in the campaigns of history’s most brilliant warrior.
The historical accuracy is not what makes the show woke...it's that netflix chose to highlight that particular aspect of his life at this current time in the 21st century. They're cherry picking certain aspects of history and embellishing it to push an agenda.
I don't think anyone from 323BC till 2024 would actually call him gay to his face
The concept of gay and straight did not exist in 300BC Macedonia the way it does today. Today it's a label.
I'm so tired of people lacking any kind of nuance online. You're not that single-minded in real life, you see complexity in your real world relationships and todays politics, how is it possible that that unterstanding of the world evaporates the minute you switch on a screen?? It's so nice to see Brett actually making an effort to bring real life critical thinking skills to the online commentary space.
It really doesn’t matter if Alexander was gay bi or not. It’s the fact that it took only 8 minutes for Netflix to tell us he was. Once again ramming this agenda down our throats (pause) every chance they get. It didn’t even make sense to mention it in the first episode.
Metatron has a great video on this. But also, I just came down here to make a joke: Alexander the Great(ly endowed)
I'm Greek, of higher education. I've read Homer's Iliad (Achilles and Patroclus stuff), Arian's Alexander Rising (Alexander and Hephestion who modeled their relationship to Ach and Pat, man those diminutives). Both in ancient text with translation, which is the best way to study the classics, provided you speak Greek, that is. The man walked from Greece to Egypt to India and back (half way) fighting his way through enemies and nature. Inspiring myriads of simple soldiers to follow suit! He was a HUGE personality, larger than life! But no, we HAVE to care about his erotic exploits, cause that's what made his days interesting... Hm.... BTW he was most probably straight, if not, then bi. All those ancient sources tend to agree. Most definitelly NOT gay. BTW2, Plutarch describes a party! Well, drunken soldiers are not the best of boys, and kissing a drag queen is not that much out context, is it? One can easily compare it to a bachelor party: a lapdance and a kiss don't count as cheating, do they? BTW3, Bagoas, that was the name of the eunuch, was also the name of a rich merchent-kingmaker wannabe, who tried to poison Darius some time before. And Alexander knew about it. That Bagoas was sumarily executed, but maaaaaaybe Darius's pun to have a Bagoas slave entertaining him WAS intended! Making Alexander's pun likewise intended... maybe?
So any guy who is a close friend of Alexander the great is now a gay lover?
The most important thing about Alexander the great was not that he might have engaged in gay activity.
It was that he was a fantastic warrior, explorer and built an empire.
For Netflix the most important thing about anyone is the colour of you skin and who you sleep with.
His empire fell apart shortly after his death.
Alexander the Great was Bisexual he had both male and female lovers, this is a historical fact.
Alexander had blond hair and two different eye colors
The thought that alexander the Great was gay is a modern one. It was said he NEVER indulged in sex like his mother wanted him to. And he turn down both men and woman. There is NO ancient document saying he had sex with or was want to engage in such. It was said to be part of his great discipline. It said he only slept with 3 women his entire life based on document.
He had a wife. He also had over 350 Concubines ( females ) So that's a LIE
Just because they can doesn’t mean they should show it.
The ancient Greeks not being homophobic is a terrible misconception, if I recall they had like 6 separate main slurs for gay people 3 for bottoms and 3 for tops, in any representation of gays in their plays were always portrayed in a negative light and their presection of gay people werent too good either, those who received were seen as weak and pathetic while those who gave were seen as uncontrolled,depraved men who couldn't be trusted this idea that the ancient Greeks were open with gayness comes from a very cherry picked "sources" which if looked into aren't of sound basing, like athenians or Spartans being believed to being boy lovers, the source of this info, from their enemies who wished to insult them. Than there's the ancient Greek pots which will depict 2 naked men wrestling being labelled as gay loving(which now adays is kinda gay but back then it wasn't cause they were more comfortable with nudity)
Hate to say it and I hate everything woke but historically Alexander definitely could've been gay
You must be extremely ignorant about the Mediterranean to think that Greeks can't have blonde hair and blue eyes, which Alexander did
There is no consensus on his appearance other than he was rugged and may have had heterochromia.
Brett going full-blown "Y'all need Jesus" is my favorite thing about this video 😂
If I'm not mistaken, men in the Spartan army would...do stuff...to bond with each other while they were away from their wives 😂
Alexander did have blonde hair and blue eyes according to the historical record. So it would be inaccurate to cast a “Mediterranean” looking person.