The History Of CHEATING In Formula 1 | Joe Rogan & Chris Harris

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  • @AilinOGriobhtha
    @AilinOGriobhtha 3 місяці тому +1304

    The fact that he's talking about cheating in F1 and motorsport in general and Flavio Briatore's name hasn't cropped up is an outrage lmao

    • @Jcnbusiness
      @Jcnbusiness 3 місяці тому +26

      @@AilinOGriobhtha Flavio has truly been reborn. I mean he has come back to the sport after receiving a lifetime ban. To be fair to him though it didn’t say in the rules that it was not allowed so technically he didn’t break any rule that was in place at the time. Lol

    • @sloppynyuszi
      @sloppynyuszi 3 місяці тому +14

      Well he got caught… so maybe that’s why? The fact that we all believe Alonso was unaware though 😂😂😂😂😂

    • @cessactdm
      @cessactdm 3 місяці тому +2

      well that's a different kind of cheating where a crash was forced to give a win to a different driver, in this instance he meant engineering "cheating".

    • @Jcnbusiness
      @Jcnbusiness 3 місяці тому +3

      @@cessactdm I do realise that it was engineering type cheating that was being discussed but the particular comment I was responding to mentioned Flavio Briatore. He is of course known for the incident in Malaysia but I could of also brought up the very strange options available to Micheal Schumacher in 1994. The traction control option that they accidentally left in the system of only one of their cars and could only be accessed via a certain sequence of button presses. Of course they never used it or the traction control system that wasn’t traction control. They did manage to win a world championship despite Micheal making a “mistake “ in Adelaide and not finishing. All in a team led by Flavio, who we can’t really blame for the engineering “mistakes”, I mean he is just a T Shirt salesman after all.

    • @Jcnbusiness
      @Jcnbusiness 3 місяці тому +4

      @@sloppynyuszi Yeah it’s funny about that. Honestly looking at the situation and the racing IQ of Fernando I would not be surprised at all if the origin of the idea came from him whilst driving the car. A gentle message to the team along the lines of “Gee guys if we get lucky and catch a safety car in the next few laps we will be in a great position for the win here”. Fernando is that good at thinking about the situation of the race which we have seen time and again. Of course he is pretty good with the whole sergeant Shultz routine as well lol

  • @99dndd
    @99dndd 3 місяці тому +727

    My favourite “rule bend” was in 1999 when 3 F1 teams found out that the sensor in the grid to detect false starts was activated exactly 1 second before the lights went out. So they intercepted the signal from the sensor and set up a system that would beep in the driver’s ear 0.99 seconds after the activation so they would start the moment the lights went out.
    They were caught at a race in Germany when the start lights malfunctioned amd stayed on but these 6 cars moved at the exact moment they should have turned off.
    From the next race, the sensors were turned on at a random time before the lights went out.

    • @Phoenix1664
      @Phoenix1664 3 місяці тому +20

      Is this true??? I've never heard this before. But do remember that start. The one where Frentzen and Hakkinenn both went even though the lights were still on red

    • @Fons.s
      @Fons.s 3 місяці тому +44

      @@Phoenix1664it was the 1999 European GP. I believe you are thinking of the right incident. It is true, though there is some speculation that the lights didn’t malfunction, but purposely kept on to catch the cheaters. There is no evidence that this is true, though.

    • @n.w.owhoknowstheshadowknow58
      @n.w.owhoknowstheshadowknow58 3 місяці тому +6

      Well someone else's predictability isn't you're cheating if simply using information thats access was obtainable to you

    • @Fons.s
      @Fons.s 3 місяці тому +9

      @@n.w.owhoknowstheshadowknow58 that is not always true. Look at the 2007 spy gate scandal. The way information is obtained can sometimes definitely be cheating.
      That being said, the 3 teams weren’t punished. The means of this way of cheating was just removed

    • @Boomatic
      @Boomatic 3 місяці тому +8

      I thought the FIA found them out and changed the timing

  • @matthewbroad670
    @matthewbroad670 3 місяці тому +342

    Quote from Ross Brawn: "its not cheating, its a competitive interpretation of the regulations."

  • @Spankster.
    @Spankster. 3 місяці тому +357

    As far as I can tell, Formula 1 is the most multi-dimensional sport in the world… two simultaneous championships encompassed by a design and engineering competition where teammates are often rivals.

    • @Jcnbusiness
      @Jcnbusiness 3 місяці тому +23

      @@Spankster. Yes it’s quiet a dichotomy. You have maybe 1000 people including two drivers who all work together to make the fastest car. Then the only guy that you really need to beat home and make sure you’re faster than on a Sunday is that same guy who you worked with to make the car better.

    • @wasdrankings1518
      @wasdrankings1518 3 місяці тому +15

      One of the few sports where you can lose a title by having the 2 best drivers on your team

    • @Jcnbusiness
      @Jcnbusiness 3 місяці тому +6

      @@wasdrankings1518 Yes indeed and also probably the only one where someone is going to be upset about helping the team win a championship

    • @phonebem
      @phonebem 3 місяці тому +5

      I've been an F1 fan for over 20 years and that summarizes the sport better than I ever could.

    • @TheMrNomadus
      @TheMrNomadus 3 місяці тому +4

      Kind of. It's always about 1 team coming up with avoiding regulations or finding loopholes and other teams pointing to the loophole so the FIA ban it or just trying to compete with a winning team. And there is also Ferrari fucking up in a Ferrari way

  • @858Bill
    @858Bill 3 місяці тому +129

    The true geniuses don't find ways to break the rules.....
    They find ways to figure out what the rule book DOESN"T say.....
    The great Smokey Yunick once told of the NASCAR rule that the gas tank had to hold 26 gallons....
    But nowhere did it mention the fuel line....
    So Smokey made a fuel line that held 6 gallons.....

    • @BobbyBoucher228
      @BobbyBoucher228 2 місяці тому +3

      The best way to gain an advantage in sports is to find a way to take advantage of existing rules that allow you to have an edge within the confines of the game’s existing rules. Using my favorite sport of hockey for example, so back in the day when there were no penalties for hitting someone in the head and a player by the name of Scott Stevens realized as long as he didn’t commit any other penalties while hitting an opponent in the head like elbowing, interference, or charging to name a few, he could intentionally injure and take out the other teams star players with a headshot without breaking any existing rules at that time. To Scott Stevens credit, it worked and he wasn’t penalized for giving at least a dozen opponents star players a concussion throughout his career.

    • @thephoenixfromtheashes
      @thephoenixfromtheashes 2 місяці тому +1

      ​@@BobbyBoucher228 thats a really bad example in my opinion, he literally just found a way to intentionally harm people without penalty
      you shouldnt really give credut to something like that...
      like wow, so smart of people to just cut off heads 2000 years ago, because they didnt have a rule against it, credit to them for figuring that out

    • @HoxFox22
      @HoxFox22 Місяць тому

      it's all can be called in one simple word: " Exploits ".

    • @maxcr5937
      @maxcr5937 Місяць тому

      i believe he made a car that was like 7/8th scale to the rest and would avoid being parked anywhere near another car as well

  • @theelf152
    @theelf152 3 місяці тому +52

    Loved Mclarens extra brake pedal for brake steer and the fact it was only the media taking pics of the car after an event that it was detected and outlawed.

    • @michaeleverson3801
      @michaeleverson3801 2 місяці тому +2

      Was really surprised that he didn't mention this one! That was quite a scandal in the mid-90s. Then we had allegations of traction control as well in the mid to late 90s.

    • @iMadrid11
      @iMadrid11 2 місяці тому

      There’s also a video of the Maclaren 3rd brake triggered by a button on the steering wheel when the 3rd pedal was outlawed.

    • @PatrickHenryLibertyorDeath
      @PatrickHenryLibertyorDeath Місяць тому

      That was cheating. They changed the rules to ban it.

    • @lewistravel1
      @lewistravel1 Місяць тому

      It wasn’t cheating. It wasn’t illegal till they banned it 😂

    • @theF1oracle
      @theF1oracle Місяць тому +1

      The best part about the 2nd brake pedal for me was that it was constructed with spare parts & cost maybe £80 in total !

  • @Brendan77able
    @Brendan77able 3 місяці тому +69

    Murray Walker was and always the Greatest Commentator EVER!

    • @Jcnbusiness
      @Jcnbusiness 3 місяці тому +3

      Could not agree more especially when he had James hunt along side. He will always be the voice of formula 1 for me

    • @Brendan77able
      @Brendan77able 3 місяці тому +3

      @@Jcnbusiness 100% Martin is getting there for me too, but Murray was the OG.

    • @Jcnbusiness
      @Jcnbusiness 3 місяці тому +2

      @@Brendan77able I do enjoy Martin as well and a whole generation now will see him as the voice of formula 1

    • @cecilcharlesofficial
      @cecilcharlesofficial 3 місяці тому

      I hear Pual di Resta is pretty fantastic too.

    • @egj1975
      @egj1975 3 місяці тому +2

      Please dont say that... he was an icon yes but a terrible commentator. I have watched F1 since 1992 and he is by far the worst of them and on top of that his voice was pain to listen to.

  • @Brandon-qy4rs
    @Brandon-qy4rs 3 місяці тому +104

    How does this guy not bring up Spygate? Best cheating scandal ever in F1.

    • @edbr2379
      @edbr2379 3 місяці тому +37

      A team got another teams car data? That's the dullest cheating scandal ever. All the clever technical tricks are the interesting bit.

    • @damienkearns3654
      @damienkearns3654 2 місяці тому

      There's been a lot of cheating!!! 😁

    • @edennard1
      @edennard1 2 місяці тому

      Well he surmise the F1 series in a whole Stating that F1 is about cheating..and it can be said in the last 3 decades for sure there was always the engineers of these teams coming up with all types of shenanigans to circumvent the rules and personally I think they did a damn good job of it..

    • @francescotrombetta8548
      @francescotrombetta8548 2 місяці тому

      ​@@edbr2379that's the stupidest yet effettive cheating scandal that has ever been, as always mclaren being in it

    • @garythefishable
      @garythefishable Місяць тому

      ​​@@edbr2379There is so much more to spygate. Like how they nearly got away it until Alonso threatened Ron Dennis that he would tell the FIA all about it after an argument they had which led Ron to run to the FIA first and essentially say that if Alonso tells you we have been spying on Ferrari he's lying which only got them resulted in them investigating the matter further. Ferrari were also first made aware of this when they received a random email from the guy who was asked to print copies of Ferrari documents. The guy who also leaked the information from Ferrari was doing so out of spite after he failed to get a promotion and a few years after spygate all came out he unfortunately committed suicide.

  • @corywickenkamp8173
    @corywickenkamp8173 3 місяці тому +67

    Not fair the British get to call the 2000s the naughties.

    • @jimijames6449
      @jimijames6449 2 місяці тому +17

      It’s not naughties lol. It’s the noughties. As in nought. Which means zero.

    • @AppalachianWrench
      @AppalachianWrench 2 місяці тому +1

      ought, like 2 zeros. Thirty ought six as opposed to thirty naught six .30-06

    • @Hagg-o-tron
      @Hagg-o-tron 2 місяці тому +5

      ​@@jimijames6449yes we as Brits are well aware of the spelling difference. We're also aware of homophones, puns and wordplay. Sometimes we like being "naughty" with words.

    • @BadBoyV1
      @BadBoyV1 5 днів тому

      @@jimijames6449 We say naughties as a throwback to naughty times and a play on words with noughties.

  • @keithhepworth4934
    @keithhepworth4934 Місяць тому +11

    Chris was the only worthy replacement for Clarkson, Hammond and May. It too bad that the BBC couldn’t find better co-hosts for him.

    • @BadBoyV1
      @BadBoyV1 5 днів тому

      True, Harris is great for TV

  • @ryanmorrison3699
    @ryanmorrison3699 2 місяці тому +13

    Cheating in Motorsport is amazing to hear about. Darrell Waltrip told stories on Dale Earnhardt Jr’s podcast about shedding weight on the fly and using nitrous to qualify faster and they’d hide the nitrous bottle in the pipes of the roll cage inside the car. Absolutely genius stuff. It’s so creative and innovative. Is it dirty? Absolutely, but it’s simultaneously brilliant stuff.

  • @talbotd27
    @talbotd27 2 місяці тому +16

    My favorite cheat was when Ferrari was apparently adding extra fuel into their engines around 2019. They found out at what rate the FIA fuel measurement system was reading the fuel, and managed to create a fuel system that pulsed extra fuel through in the milliseconds between when the device was measuring. I can’t even begin to imagine the engineering and coding that went into that, but they pulled it off. Until they were caught they had a very fast car

    • @francescotrombetta8548
      @francescotrombetta8548 2 місяці тому +2

      1.They were never caught 2. That was not a cheating pu as the fia never claimed it as such (not even in one of their usual statements) 3. All the so-called "secret agreement" between Ferrari and Fia had stood because Ferrari's bosses literally sh*t in their pants for having made something in a grey zone, as a matter of fact we don't even know if it was them controlling in some way the flow meter sensor, that was just a huge speculation (the fia doesn't know as of today what they even did with the pu in the first place). Not to mention Ferrari used that PU for like 2 or 3 races whereas Mercedes used Das (illegal system) for the whole year or Redbull using asymmetric braking for 1 year and a half (or mclaren using exceptionally illegal wings for 3/4 of the season), ludicrous and disgusting double standards towards teams based in britain

    • @gizzyguzzi
      @gizzyguzzi Місяць тому

      ​@@francescotrombetta8548 they literally shit in their pants?.Do you know what literally means?

  • @launchsquid
    @launchsquid 3 місяці тому +27

    "someone must have had a button", yeah, his name is Bernie Ecclestone.

  • @ryanflood635
    @ryanflood635 3 місяці тому +39

    Fair play to Chris for saying this on a large platform. Too many people just gloss over it and even some fans deny it because it bursts their bubble.

    • @TATTIEPICKER
      @TATTIEPICKER 3 місяці тому +6

      Real fans know that this is going on now and been happening since F1 conception.
      The casual Drive to Survive watchers will have no clue.

    • @TheFoggyjones
      @TheFoggyjones 3 місяці тому +3

      No! This is the best part of the sport! This basically is the sport. I'm a fan of shenanigans.

    • @ryanflood635
      @ryanflood635 3 місяці тому

      @@TheFoggyjonesloopholes are great. Cheating isn’t. Mercedes’ DAS blew my mind. Perfectly legal bit of trickery and a phenomenal piece of engineering. Ferrari coming from nowhere to win in monza. Lewis Coming from nowhere to win in silverstone. Max coming from nowhere to win in Holland. Not so cool.

    • @fabinho69fs
      @fabinho69fs 2 місяці тому +1

      Ok casual, stick to drive to survive

  • @andreasstrassel7799
    @andreasstrassel7799 2 місяці тому +12

    Get Kimi on the Podcast, he won Austin and drove Nascar, very talkative for a podcast

    • @mikeiso8963
      @mikeiso8963 Місяць тому +2

      😂😂😂

    • @MrGrimBG
      @MrGrimBG 17 днів тому +1

      Bwoah.

    • @odditylocker
      @odditylocker 3 дні тому

      Yeah. I'm sure he would love to do a podcast. Lmao

  • @michaelalek6490
    @michaelalek6490 3 місяці тому +21

    The Toyota incident was actually by Team Toyota Europe based in Germany. Whether Toyota corporate knew is another question

    • @PrinceMauriceTV
      @PrinceMauriceTV 3 місяці тому +2

      Unlikely, the racing team is ran completely separate from the commercial part of the business.

    • @scottmeehan2422
      @scottmeehan2422 3 місяці тому +1

      ​@@EleventhMonkeytbf i think rep damage will only be to the team who cheated not the manufacturer as the teams mostly operate as standalone company and parent company only really gets involed when they are struggling. Take what renault did in 2008 as a example. How often do you hear people blame renault for it. I very rarely hear it as its allways big flavio who gets the blame.

    • @scottmeehan2422
      @scottmeehan2422 3 місяці тому +1

      The cooperate side of toyota would only of known what the ceo of TTE told them. You really think the heads of toyota really got involed in the engineering/design/r&d etc of all the cars they manufacture for sports or commercial or industrial use.

    • @Rubix84
      @Rubix84 3 місяці тому +1

      Came here to say this. TTE engineered and designed the system and implemented without Toyota Japan's knowledge.

    • @anthonybariek997
      @anthonybariek997 2 місяці тому +1

      And the driver of the car was called Carlos Sainz, who son is currently driving F1 for Ferrari

  • @Jcnbusiness
    @Jcnbusiness 3 місяці тому +39

    Smokey Yunick. Americas greatest exponent of the “Unfair Advantage “

    • @brianshorey
      @brianshorey 3 місяці тому +2

      He wrote the book on cheating in motorsports.

    • @Jcnbusiness
      @Jcnbusiness 3 місяці тому

      @@brianshorey I wish he had written a book lol. He was a master that is for sure

    • @brianshorey
      @brianshorey 3 місяці тому +1

      @@Jcnbusiness He did - Best Damn Garage in Town - The World According to Smokey. They tend to sell for hundreds or thousands of dollars.

    • @Jcnbusiness
      @Jcnbusiness 3 місяці тому

      @@brianshorey I’m in Australia so it’s probably impossible to find here but thanks for letting me know. I would love to read it. Even at that price it is probably worth it

    • @SAVikingSA
      @SAVikingSA 3 місяці тому

      The reason F1 cars have wings is because Colin Chapman was at Indianapolis in 1963 when Smokey ran a huge wing on his car. The Lotus GP cars had wings shortly afterwards.

  • @PapaOfGags
    @PapaOfGags 3 місяці тому +126

    If I remember correctly F1 cars were 14 seconds a lap faster than IndyCar's at COTA.

    • @dylanburston7453
      @dylanburston7453 3 місяці тому +19

      And they dont massivly track extend like indycar do.

    • @martinmurtagh3221
      @martinmurtagh3221 3 місяці тому +23

      Indycar much better racing though…

    • @yaswanth.1291
      @yaswanth.1291 3 місяці тому

      😂😂😂😂😂​@@martinmurtagh3221

    • @ohiopower
      @ohiopower 3 місяці тому +14

      I would hope so considering the cost of an F1 car is 400 million more than an indycar.

    • @James-gr5mx
      @James-gr5mx 3 місяці тому +31

      @@ohiopower f1 car budget is 150 million they restricted the teams from overspending.

  • @CaptainRedBeardarrr
    @CaptainRedBeardarrr 3 місяці тому +153

    The US are generally fans of sports that are in stadiums and it’s a great marketing thing really. Everyone gets a great view… they took motocross, put it in a stadium and called it supercross for example.

    • @fuguestatetoo6789
      @fuguestatetoo6789 3 місяці тому +21

      control the environment, control the outcome.

    • @ItsMeeJon
      @ItsMeeJon 3 місяці тому +10

      The most popular sport in the world is played in a stadium. “Stadiums” existed in Europe long before the US had a stadium

    • @harborwolf22
      @harborwolf22 3 місяці тому +7

      Drive to survive has made MANY MANY people in the US fans of F1, even outside of the show.
      I now watch all the races and follow the teams before the show drops after the season.

    • @Matthew-g2w
      @Matthew-g2w 3 місяці тому +6

      Yeah, because soccer is only played in the f'n wilderness around the world. Gimmeabreak.

    • @zatgeye7320
      @zatgeye7320 3 місяці тому +5

      i know here in australia we haven't invented seats we just play our pro sports in random paddocks, no one knows when or where. we should look into these things called "stadiums"

  • @lazarusdigital
    @lazarusdigital Місяць тому +3

    There is a saying in motor racing. You read the rules twice, once to learn the rules, twice to beat them.

  • @tonywalker8421
    @tonywalker8421 3 місяці тому +20

    Cheating = Innovation in racing. Doesn't matter if Nascar, F1 or BMX. If you ain't cheating you ain't trying.

    • @scroopynooperz9051
      @scroopynooperz9051 9 днів тому

      Indeed. Cheating just means you're taking it seriously xD
      In a weird way, its a sign of respect and love for the sport lol

  • @bernardhertz8381
    @bernardhertz8381 2 місяці тому +26

    Why do Nascar fans always come out when f1 is mentioned? Stay in your lane😂😂😂

    • @RemiKJV1611
      @RemiKJV1611 Місяць тому +1

      LOL! left-left-left...repeat

    • @larryplummer9154
      @larryplummer9154 Місяць тому

      ​@@RemiKJV1611more to it than that

    • @RemiKJV1611
      @RemiKJV1611 Місяць тому

      @@larryplummer9154 I know 😉. Just kidding...I love Nascar, been to many races and garages, but I love F1 more.

    • @ddraigritz9740
      @ddraigritz9740 Місяць тому

      they mentioned nascar…

    • @MotherViksChaat
      @MotherViksChaat 16 днів тому

      @@RemiKJV1611and motogp

  • @Shimeih
    @Shimeih 3 місяці тому +11

    I'm a very big F1 fan but I gotta give my biggest props to Smokey Yunick. Greaterst cheat of all time.

    • @winslow69
      @winslow69 2 місяці тому

      Best Damn Garage In Town.

  • @cvn6555
    @cvn6555 2 місяці тому +2

    Lancia took cheating to the next level when they were in rallying. Absolute pirates. Pretending to have issues with their seatbelts on the start line so that they could let the dust settle before setting out. Sending team members out onto the course to put road salt on icy patches to help since they didn't have AWD. Constantly skirting and sometimes transgressing the rules. Great story.

  • @johnschwindt3049
    @johnschwindt3049 2 місяці тому +4

    Go to the Indy 500 and tell me "it's just driving in circles"

    • @CaseyTappy
      @CaseyTappy 17 годин тому

      I went there in 2019 and "it's just driving in circles" , there , I said it !
      But not only that , the first 170 or so laps is just fuel saving , only after the last pitstop they actually show their speed and it's a sprint to the finish .

  • @SylviusTheMad
    @SylviusTheMad 3 місяці тому +4

    When the soort routinely has to hold hearings wherein teams argue about what counts as a hole versus an edge (this was Brawn's double-diffuser), you know the teams are trying absolutely everything.
    Williams's mass-dampener. McLaren's f-duct. Mercedes's double-DRS.
    All of those were in the last 20 years, and those are the ones we know about.

  • @alexbowen9571
    @alexbowen9571 3 місяці тому +4

    Joe should have a old stock car guy on just to talk about this. Fuel in chassis and acid dipped bodies, all the realms of Motorsport too

  • @chrisbee9643
    @chrisbee9643 2 місяці тому +33

    Cheating in F1 has two names:
    Flavio Briatore and Michael Schumacher. :)

  • @trev3971
    @trev3971 3 місяці тому +59

    The problem here in comparing F1 to NASCAR is that Chris knows very little about NASCAR, and Joe doesn't know anything about racing at all. The cheating in NASCAR is every bit as clever and technologically advanced as in F1. Look at the twisted sister cars and tell me they weren't playing in the same gray areas as the 2017 T-wings.

    • @DJP946
      @DJP946 3 місяці тому +28

      You aint got a clue mate

    • @matthewjamison
      @matthewjamison 3 місяці тому +42

      F1 engineering is closer to space travel than it is to NASCAR

    • @trev3971
      @trev3971 3 місяці тому +8

      @@DJP946 There's more engineering talent here than a lot of European fans want to credit. An American put wings on his cars years before Colin Chapman, and sucker fans years before Gordon Murray.

    • @BadgerUKvideo
      @BadgerUKvideo 3 місяці тому +7

      How do you cheat in Nascar? My understanding is that the brick they use to hold down the accelerator pedal and the string they tie to the steering wheel to keep it turning left have to be standardised?

    • @hotshtsr20
      @hotshtsr20 3 місяці тому +9

      @@trev3971Engineering talent in the US? Absolutely.
      But engineering in NASCAR is nowhere near F1. To quote Clint Bowyer:
      “These Damn Europeans And Their Spaceship Cars”

  • @enniol8043
    @enniol8043 3 місяці тому

    I would so buy that book. Loved Murray Walker so much. He made so many errors but they were all endearing and was so part of his charm. Nobody was a bigger cheerleader for British drivers, especially his beloved Nigel Mansell. Chris, please write that book.

    • @Jcnbusiness
      @Jcnbusiness 3 місяці тому

      @@enniol8043 Don’t worry Murray has you covered. He did his own book and I’m pretty sure you can find it on UA-cam as an audio book with Murray narrating it. The man could make watching grass grow sound bloody exciting and worth continuing to watch lol

    • @enniol8043
      @enniol8043 3 місяці тому

      @@Jcnbusiness I bought the audio book and listened to it. He narrated it and hearing his voice again brought back my childhood. If Murray was speaking about a driver, you could bet it was his teammate that was having an issue.

    • @alexisborden3191
      @alexisborden3191 3 місяці тому

      I thought ya'll didn't like british bias?

    • @RemiKJV1611
      @RemiKJV1611 Місяць тому

      Yep. Yes, the man from the Isle of Man!

  • @richardmortimer8147
    @richardmortimer8147 2 місяці тому

    the Lotus 78 was the first 'wing-car.' But it was a compromise so didn't work on all circuits. The Lotus 77 was the 'adjustable' car that Peterson hated so left after one GP (in 1976). The first proper 'wing-car' was the aching beautiful Lotus 79.

  • @saddysly8281
    @saddysly8281 6 днів тому

    I loved the pass through cockpit hole where a sriver would have to put his hand over the hole on the striaght.

  • @SlickBLook
    @SlickBLook 3 місяці тому +3

    Theres a fuckload of mind games and tricks involved in motorsports its just part of the culture and it always has been.

  • @hotwings9382
    @hotwings9382 2 місяці тому +1

    Remember this guy in nascar who would run a long fuel pipe around the car to give himself extra fuel

  • @richardmortimer8147
    @richardmortimer8147 2 місяці тому

    A friend of mine was convinced most people cheated, especially in karting. He said about having 2 identical helmets, one filled with lead. So, when you pulled into the weighing area, you would pass the normal one to your mechanic who would go off to the van. Then, you would suddenly turn around and shout, "Hey, bring my helmet back, I need it for weighing in!" Of course, he would bring the lead-lined helmet!

  • @gravelunit
    @gravelunit 2 місяці тому +3

    Motorsports cheating stories are the best.

  • @mrrolandlawrence
    @mrrolandlawrence 2 місяці тому +1

    indeed schumacher turned up to the formerly annual FIA driver weigh in... with a helmet where the padding was removed and was replaced with lead shot. ferrari then could race with 20kg less weight in the car. because of that, we now weigh the driver at every race.

  • @jonathonpoloski917
    @jonathonpoloski917 2 місяці тому +1

    When Chris said that formula one is more complex than nascar, he wasn't lying or trying to take a dig at NASCAR in any way. Formula 1 is technically more complex than NASCAR because of all of the different electronics in telemetry and different technology formula 1 uses compared to NASCAR. Mechanically NASCAR engineers are probably better than formula 1 engineers.

  • @poltergeist3194
    @poltergeist3194 11 днів тому

    IMHO Toyota cheating in the WRC with the Celica was a stroke of pure engineering genius.

  • @max_coast
    @max_coast 20 днів тому

    I love the videos of NASCAR pit crews act out a trip and fall into cars to dent the bodywork and gain an aerodynamic advantage

  • @CHRISBOGGETT
    @CHRISBOGGETT Місяць тому +2

    He just described almost all pro sport

  • @harry258
    @harry258 Місяць тому

    Sometimes I think there’s a fine line between cheating and ingenuity, like your allowed find loop holes

  • @smegweevil
    @smegweevil 2 місяці тому +2

    The history of cheating in F1 ... covered in under 8 minutes. That's quite an achievement.

  • @nitromancer6460
    @nitromancer6460 3 місяці тому +1

    The rally car cheating was brilliant because the illegal bypass was spring loaded so it would disappear when the components were taken apart for inspection.

  • @todd8928
    @todd8928 22 дні тому +1

    If you ain't cheating you ain't trying.

  • @eduardhenny1
    @eduardhenny1 2 місяці тому

    When you do not get caught, its not cheating in F1. Nerds, businessesman, drivers, engineers being creative. So cool

  • @condealexandervonhasslerra5527
    @condealexandervonhasslerra5527 3 місяці тому +1

    2:34 formula one they don’t cheat. But also in F1 there is no spirit of the rule…..

  • @damienkearns3654
    @damienkearns3654 2 місяці тому +1

    Flavio Briatore. Singapore. Crashgate. It cost Felipe Massa the F1 World Championship.

  • @km6832
    @km6832 3 місяці тому +1

    "Oval racing is boring" says someone that has never watched oval racing. These cars are doing 190 mph for hours on end, WOT 90% of the race.
    That takes more concentration than anything else

    • @ElementsMMA
      @ElementsMMA 3 місяці тому +4

      It's really boring.

    • @mouseinthehouse_
      @mouseinthehouse_ 3 місяці тому +3

      That sounds incredibly boring

    • @NiekLodewijkx
      @NiekLodewijkx 2 місяці тому

      Watching the onboard camera is great, only then you see really good what's goning on.

    • @conallmclaughlin4545
      @conallmclaughlin4545 2 місяці тому

      To be fair, it is so so boring

  • @SKG1941
    @SKG1941 17 днів тому

    Been around Racing and watching for a long time. If you ain’t Cheating you ain’t trying and you’re probably not gonna win. Racing 101.

  • @smallpiper2
    @smallpiper2 2 місяці тому

    My favorite cheating story is a car that had a DRS rear wing but no one could prove it because they didnt have high speed cameras yet and the officals could not find the mechanism that caused it everytime they inspected the car.

  • @scottmeehan2422
    @scottmeehan2422 3 місяці тому +2

    Imo its trying to find loop holes that leads to constent advances in the cars.

  • @Sampss.
    @Sampss. 2 місяці тому

    That 1995 celica GT-Four was a terrible car even with the illegal turbocharger. I remember Kankkunen talking about it with his co-driver Nicky Grist on a podcast a while back.

  • @Taylor___
    @Taylor___ 3 місяці тому +4

    In go karting in the UK, the drivers used to hide a tennis ball in their race overalls to wedge into the exhaust down the straights to provide more back pressure and performance from the engine ha

  • @rachelkoiks
    @rachelkoiks 2 місяці тому

    F1 in the 90’s we saw soooo many crooked deviants in all positions in the sport: a driver, person(s) within teams (Flavio for example), FIA, Bernie..
    These days it’s about reading the regulations, and trying to find a grey area and exploit that until other teams suspect something which will lead FIA to investigate and either consider it okay or not allow it and you have to remove it from the car. If so then they’ll tighten up the regs so that it can’t be explored anymore.

  • @kxng1191
    @kxng1191 3 місяці тому +11

    There’s not cheating in F1. They push the boundaries until the rules change then they find new boundaries to push.

    • @Sampss.
      @Sampss. 2 місяці тому +2

      No there definitely is cheating if there is a rule that an engine can only take a certain amount of fuel at max volume and you don't obey by those rules and get caught. The only reason Ferrari cheating a couple of years ago was swept under the rug by the FIA is because Ferrari makes them a shit load of money with their regignition and prestige within motorsports

  • @PedroFTeixeira
    @PedroFTeixeira 2 місяці тому

    I've heard that on Nascar, in the 70s, people were running fuel inside the roll cage, to have an extra large tank.
    Don't know true that is .. but..

    • @jek4837
      @jek4837 Місяць тому +1

      There's one true story about them having lead shot (bb's or whatever), and it was put inside the rails/frame. After the race would start, they'd pull the release and it would empty out. Suddenly the car was hundreds of pounds lighter. The inspectors wouldn't find the release hole because it was located at the spot where the jack was put to raise the car up.The jack was plugging/covering the hole.

  • @DrSpoculus
    @DrSpoculus 9 днів тому

    Nascar takes a lot of skill. Pack drafting isn't a formula uno thing. It's a lot more than "just turn left".

  • @Dragonfly-wg6rg
    @Dragonfly-wg6rg 3 місяці тому +1

    Chris Harris is the best car guru guest .. period!

  • @mjsplicer78
    @mjsplicer78 2 місяці тому +1

    Wasn't the saying in NASCAR, "if you ain't cheating you ain't trying"? Been a fan of F1 since i was a kid and you only saw it in USA on Wide World of Sports, and I still watch it and respect it hugely, but there is a difference in the racing styles between F1 and NASCAR (which I haven't watched in 25 yrs) in that open wheel racing things get stretched out a lot and there's not as much overtaking or even side by side racing, which is the major draw in NASCAR so on merit of viewing it depends on what you want to see. But both sports have had MASSIVE cheating scandals over the decades and always will have, it's racing

  • @braddbradd5671
    @braddbradd5671 2 місяці тому +1

    This makes total sense especially when he was talking about the Toyota car when it was in a drag race the Toyota just disapreaed into the distance .every one knew they were cheating .Read Dwain Chambers book and ask me how Usain Bolt can beat the worlds best sprinters while they were on drugs and not just one person at least 5 drug takers he beat then look at Ben Johnson win on drugs and dont laugh when you find out Usians trainer was a fully qualified chemist

  • @ktwdn6119
    @ktwdn6119 12 днів тому +1

    NASCAR is more entertaining cause of the frequent contact and crashes

  • @timlaughman7074
    @timlaughman7074 29 днів тому

    Richard Petty back in the day he said if you ain’t cheating, you don’t wanna win

  • @revivax9526
    @revivax9526 3 місяці тому +1

    They are not cheating, they found grey areas in technical directive, and they beng the rules as much as positive.

  • @Bugsygb1
    @Bugsygb1 3 місяці тому +2

    People call themselves fans n don't understand the difference between cheating and innovation :P

  • @christiansmith9414
    @christiansmith9414 3 місяці тому +1

    NASCAR races at COTA. Jaimie pull that up

  • @michaelgomez3044
    @michaelgomez3044 Місяць тому +1

    NASCAR races at COTA too Joe.

  • @joe_87
    @joe_87 17 днів тому

    Read Total Competition by Adam Parr & Ross. Crazy good book and speaks on these things in detail.

  • @Thunderer0872
    @Thunderer0872 Місяць тому

    NASCAR having shot or ball Barings in the side panels that dropped all the shot out to make the car lighter after the initial weight check before but not after the races in the 80s.

  • @garyrobinson3
    @garyrobinson3 3 місяці тому

    Loved everything about this video, Dave! This is a video worth rewatching multiple times.

  • @LeJimster
    @LeJimster 2 місяці тому

    Most of the "cheating" in F1 isn't cheating but finding loopholes or grey areas that aren''t explicitly ruled out. Then the are serious, explicit cheating which results in bans or fines unless you're Ferrari then it'll probably be a slap on the wrist at most.

  • @Apis4
    @Apis4 3 місяці тому +2

    'Mark Donohue did some Formula One racing too'.... "Dark' mark Donohue DIED in a Formula One crash, during practice for the 1975 Austrian Grand Prix, an accident in which a Marshal was also killed. Donohue did not initially seem severely injured, was conscious when they put his stretcher in the ambulance, as was waving to the cameras. He was initially evaluated and deemed non critical, having only a slight headache, later, it worsened significantly in short period of time, and he was taken to Graz hospital, where he slipped in to coma soon after admission, and died from a brain injury. This accident was one of the catalysts for Jackie Stewarts safety campaign to improve F1, his friend and protege Francois Cevert's death was the beginning of his campaign, but Donohue's was the cause for Stewart's camp to insist in much improved trackside medical facilities so serious internal injuries, especially cranial ones.

    • @Jcnbusiness
      @Jcnbusiness 3 місяці тому +1

      @@Apis4 extremely sad and you are of course correct. It really was the accident that caused the drivers to say enough is enough and insist on changes. There was some rumblings before that but this tragedy did seem like the tipping point. Mark Donahue was such a great racer in different disciplines. He really does deserve to be remembered as one of the best the United States has produced.

    • @Apis4
      @Apis4 3 місяці тому

      @@Jcnbusiness It was q process, Stewart took point, on driver safety improvements after Cevert died, at first with actual track layout and run off areas, then after Peter Revson died on the unfaced barriers at Kyalami and then Hemuth Keoniggs horror decapitation, at Watkins Glen , both in 1974, the barriers were on the list, and then, when Donoghue, and a fella I'm struggling to recall, both died after their accidents, the bloke I'm thinking off died en route to hospital...at Imola...I think, due being airlifted in an unpresdurosec helicopter, causing some kind of worsening to what was initially deemed a severe but treatable head injury....then inadequate trackside medical facilities were also highlighted and added to the cause.
      Stewart knew them all, had been deeply hurt and permanently traumatized by Joachim Rindts death at Monza in ...1970? He and Rindt were close friends, more, his wife, and Linda, Rindts wife, we're best friends. He chalked it up to the risk of the game, initially irrc, but then he lost Cevert, followed by half a dozen more friemds and colleagues in the next 5 years. He became determined after Cevert to see changes, and learnt from each following tragedy, intent to not let them be pointless, and each one improve the safety in each area.
      So the sport went 20 years without a fatality after Ratzenberger and Senna in 94, and has gone a decade now without even a career ending injury. That was paid for by Donohue et al, the least they could have done is remember his legacy properly!

    • @gs8494
      @gs8494 3 місяці тому

      @@Apis4 The sports ambivalence over driver safety was mad compared to today, Stewart was always aware and I think Jim Clarks death brought it home as well as an accident Stewart himself had where he was trapped in a car covered in fuel at Spa in 66 for BRM, he was lucky as a sudden shower not only saw him go off but a couple of other drivers as well and they managed to get him out of the car. I'm pretty sure the ambulance that eventually picked him got lost on the way to hospital as well.

    • @Apis4
      @Apis4 3 місяці тому

      @@gs8494 Yup, he smashed THHROUGH A FARM at the infamous Masta Kink back in the Glorious Triangle days of Spa. Got stuck hanging through the ceiling upside down fueling spilling out.
      Clark, a fellow Scott, was the accident which opened his eyes, Rindt was what made him begin pushing, and Cevert lit a fire under him. But his own accident really made him understand just how bad it was. Then watching people like Donohue, Revson, Koenig et al, die just continued being revelation, after revelation as to just how many levels of insanely unsafe the sport was. Just what areas needed addressing, everything from track design and layout, to barriers, to pit and practice procedures, to fire safety and indeed, trackside medical help.
      All of it had been inadequate for years, and drivers were dying in accidents that should NOT have killed them.

    • @Jcnbusiness
      @Jcnbusiness 3 місяці тому

      @@Apis4 You are of course correct. Jackie Stewart has been a driving force behind the continued rise in the safety of motor racing which has led to all forms of the sport being much safer. I think the real moment for him was his own accident which occurred at Spa. From Memory he went off and crashed through some sort of shed and came to rest against a tree. He was stuck in the car because he couldn’t remove the steering wheel and only with the help of a spectator who happened to have a spanner with him was he able to get out. No event officials or what passed for an ambulance arrived at the accident scene for quite some time as well. Jackie talked about the incident in a podcast at some point and it sounded pretty horrible and a real turning point for him. Although Jackie thankfully survived so many of his close friends did not. Jochen Rindt died on the way to hospital in Italy. I think the other driver you may have been referring to was Piers Courage who died in 1970 at Zandvoort. The car he was driving had a magnesium body. When the car went off it caught fire and magnesium unfortunately burns well. Piers had no chance and I seem to recall Jackie talking about it as he was in close proximity at the time and of course the race wasn’t stopped so the drivers were continuing to race past the crash site and could see the wreckage. I could be wrong though because Jo Schlesser died in a very similar situation a few years earlier. I think that was in France. You are correct in saying that the current day drivers and in fact all participants at any level of Motorsport have the people who sadly lost their lives to thank for the safety we now enjoy. Each and every one of them should be remembered. And along with people like Sir Jackie Stewart as well as many others who have pushed for continued safety improvements, should be treated with great respect. As a quick aside Sir Jackie was also a champion shooter who only just missed out on Olympic selection. A remarkable man and a legend as well as being a genuinely nice guy to boot.

  • @JasonnOC
    @JasonnOC 2 місяці тому

    The best innovator of motorsport rules was Smokey Yunick

  • @zulfiqaralamsyah8861
    @zulfiqaralamsyah8861 3 місяці тому +10

    2020 Mercedes DAS system , 2020 Racing Point car allegedly "copied" 2019 mercedes car

    • @munir824
      @munir824 2 місяці тому +2

      How was DAS cheating please?

    • @JScott-lg4jb
      @JScott-lg4jb 2 місяці тому

      It wasn’t cheating, but I do get your point.

  • @adrianabeijon1350
    @adrianabeijon1350 3 місяці тому

    If anyone is interested in more weird interpretations of the rules search up the Brabham BT46 otherwise known as the "fan car".. wasn't considered cheating but was banned in the same season it was introduced

  • @joshualamp2438
    @joshualamp2438 3 місяці тому +2

    Rules are for the guidance of wisemen, and the obedience of fools.

    • @Jcnbusiness
      @Jcnbusiness 3 місяці тому

      @@joshualamp2438 in motor racing they are kind of like a rough guideline. I mean until you get caught then it’s probably not in the rules or if it is then they have to figure out how you have done it to catch you. Right?

  • @The_Fhedz
    @The_Fhedz 3 місяці тому +5

    First time I’m hearing someone refer to a formula 1 car as a “vehicle” 😅 4:38

  • @Full_Beans
    @Full_Beans 2 місяці тому +1

    4:42 nascar has road courses, but they don’t know how to stay on the pavement, it’s a shit show.

  • @shrimpinpat
    @shrimpinpat 3 місяці тому +8

    Mercedes steering wheel where they could camber the wheels.
    Now McLaren has that mini drs effect going

  • @southernpride494
    @southernpride494 3 місяці тому +6

    2008 crashgate, 2019 Ferrari fuel pump, 2020 Mercedes DAS, 2024 RB asymmetric breaking are some recent ones

    • @issammelzi728
      @issammelzi728 3 місяці тому +5

      The FIA confirmed no teams were using the braking system, neither redbull or anyone else used it

    • @MrKaisopeth
      @MrKaisopeth 3 місяці тому +4

      How is the DAC is cheat

    • @danielbrazil4683
      @danielbrazil4683 3 місяці тому +7

      In no way was DAS cheating. It was a loophole

    • @southernpride494
      @southernpride494 3 місяці тому +1

      @danielbrazil4683 it depends on how you look at loopholes, it was banned the following year. Im not saying Merc was wrong for using it

  • @johnwood3628
    @johnwood3628 3 місяці тому

    Nice to hear him talk as a real person rather than the character on Top Gear he portrays.

  • @theragingdolphinsmaniac4696
    @theragingdolphinsmaniac4696 4 дні тому

    Lotus is far and away my favorite F1 team and the cars are some of my all time favorites, but if you want great laugh out loud funny cheating stories, F1 has nothing on Nascar. Smokey Yunick was a genius at cheating snd he had a sense of humor while doing it.

  • @Mr2it3881
    @Mr2it3881 Місяць тому

    FINALLY! Joe talking about my other love... F1! Everyone cheats, its just whether you get busted.

  • @GeneralNoriega-pi6yv
    @GeneralNoriega-pi6yv Місяць тому

    Here I was thinking he'd mention how the 2021 season ended.

    • @garythefishable
      @garythefishable Місяць тому +1

      That wasn't cheating, that was just a bad call from the FIA.

  • @richardmortimer8147
    @richardmortimer8147 2 місяці тому

    There was some very obvious cheating such as Tyrrell's lead filled water (with 2 holes under the car visible when Brundle crashed)!

  • @deepakbh8047
    @deepakbh8047 2 місяці тому +1

    First thing strikes me is 2021

    • @theF1oracle
      @theF1oracle Місяць тому

      It wasn't a cheat tho.
      The rules were applied according to the race director, who has total control.
      He may have applied them incorrectly or flexed the rules abit, but no rules were broken

  • @OFWGKTADGD
    @OFWGKTADGD 2 місяці тому +1

    Nascar literally races at COTA

  • @radiospines
    @radiospines 3 місяці тому

    Greatest rule bend of all time was DAS, still sad this got taken out

  • @SooHooSamaSito
    @SooHooSamaSito Місяць тому

    If you look at how much it costs to go to a F1 race with even a horrible view, it's easy to see why F1 won't ever gain too much traction in the U.S.A.

  • @stevecapil6577
    @stevecapil6577 3 місяці тому +3

    --History of cheating in F1, ---" Some of the stories ive heard are so good....some of the cheats ive heard about are just so brilliant....Theres amazing stories of just amazing cheats''' proceeds to tell absolutely none of them. GFYrself

  • @gunny7769
    @gunny7769 2 місяці тому

    6:49 nascar is even more ingenious, they would and still do I bet set distractions so when they have a major cheat in the engine or body they purposefully do something very obv on inspection that isn’t a big deal but will be seen very obviously in hopes they don’t check the other stuff.

  • @GeorgioSubs
    @GeorgioSubs 16 днів тому

    Cheating isn't the right word here. Flavio style crashgate is cheating and nothing ingenious about it. What we love to see is engineers who outsmart the rule book. Things like flexible wings, double diffusers, J dampers, F ducts, etc.

  • @ALLOFTHEBOOST
    @ALLOFTHEBOOST 2 місяці тому

    My favourite F1 cheat is the rules changing to to make British teams and drivers win.

  • @edennard1
    @edennard1 2 місяці тому

    You'll see people that are most ingenious when they're cheating, Not when they're abiding by the rules...The Ubiquitous Unfair Advantage...

  • @adam5707
    @adam5707 3 місяці тому +1

    Did they just say COTA is one of the best races of the season... in my opinion the track is largley forgettable when compared to most of the calendar

  • @CptCrazyWolfMan01
    @CptCrazyWolfMan01 Місяць тому

    How did they not talk about meclaren trying to steal ferrari documents

  • @TeeRollss
    @TeeRollss 3 дні тому

    F1 for all the brilliant guys don't hold a candle to the stuff the NASCAR guys came up with.

  • @R4Y2k
    @R4Y2k 3 місяці тому

    If you want a really great "unfair advantage" story, read up on the whittington brothers racing in le mans in the 70s. Mind boggling stuff :D

  • @TmnTyler2020
    @TmnTyler2020 2 місяці тому

    Junior Johnson. Nuff said.

  • @farmansiddiqui9279
    @farmansiddiqui9279 Місяць тому

    He should’ve talked about crashgate