There is a very important factor that´s missing! The relative speed differences between cars, the last years we had most of the qualifying sessions with the firs ten in one second. This used to be two to three seconds in the Mercedes dominant era, In the McLaren Senna era there was about a second between pole and third on the grid. In the Ascari era there was about 6 seconds between the first ten on the grid. And when the weather "equalizes" the car performance, Max pulls out a from 17th to first in the rain and finished 16 seconds ahead of anyone. If you factor this in then Max´s statistics are even more impressive, in my opinion he´s on top of all. I´m following F1 for about 50 years now.
My grandfather is 84 years old he watches F1 since young age and he works in motorsports for long time in Portugal. He always said to me "the best F1 drivers ever are Jim Clark, Senna and Verstappen" and he was talking about Max since 2014, Max was not even in F1 and he was telling me this boy is going to be one of the best ever in F1!
After watching Brazil 2016 I spent two whole weeks telling my friends that dutch 18 year old was going to be one of the best in history. We will miss drivers like him when he retires
Dear Peter, it is quite brave that you dare to post this as a Brittish F1-expert in these divisive times. That makes you stand out for a lot of F1-loving people that watch the sport for over 40 years (like me). Keep up the good work!
Lol. That is something Eddie would say. Max is not as good Senna. Senna could make almost any car fast. Max has had a top tier car almost his entire career (same as many 'top" drivers). Then there is Senna's grit. Could max do what Senna did in Brazil, driving an F1 car with 1.5 arms practically willed on by God? No.
When you watch Brazil 2024, when power is not an advantage and you see all the other great drivers from young talents to Alonso not be able to keep in on the track and Max is hitting fastest lap after fastest lap, it's clear he is operating a step above in terms of talent, journalist are scared to offend, they don't give their opinions on who is the best anymore, they always accept excuses blah blah. Reality is that Max is the best driver of this generation by a long shot
Full of shit... Compare his first 3 years in F1... Total disaster and a cluster fuck. Without help from masi and the fia and a car that was illegal he's nothing but backfield material...
@@trance9158 tell me you‘re a biased brit without telling me you‘re a biased brit 😁 Watching Max win is even better, when you remind yourself of how many british people are losing their love for the sport for this exact reason lmfao
@@trance9158 What about Brazil 2024 (or even Brazil 2016) was not great? The RB20 was no longer the fastest car, rain has been Max's strong point as well, on top of his recovery, also set a record of most amount of fastest laps in a row, while others had trouble keeping it on track. (EDIT: actually, i couldn't verify that specific record claim, but there's a lot of other interesting records to his name though, you might want to check them out.) I mean, where's the faults? Sure, i'm a Dutch Max "fanboy", but this is like trying to mock Michael Jordan for having a flawless match, the guy is just at the top of his game and of the sport. Why not engage with the argument, instead of resorting to ad nauseam.
It's very interesting to look at it more neutrally through statistics. However I still think looking at the great equaliser eg rain shows who the best drivers are and in my mind Senna and Verstappen are absolutely a cut above everyone else... Imagine both of them on the same track in the wet...
Before Max step in the formula 1, wolff and horner want him because they saw his talent. Max is the only driver on the grid that stop the lewis / Mercedes dominance. Without a Mercedes. Max is faster then lewis.
I 100% agree max is faster But it’s also not fair Because max hasn’t raced Lewis in the era of cars that suited Lewis! This era suits max’s driving style Lewis seems to really struggle with this era as well! Anywho I agree max is faster by far
He was the driver of the season @trance9158 in an inferior car riddled with bad luck and poor reliability while lewis got the opposite and still held on. The baby jesus made sure he got that title and the next 9. Now try different glu mate she's not working for ye. Buhhhhhhhhhh
In a slower car and those of us who watched the season saw Lewis gain advantage without giving position back 3 races, pit maneuver Max at Silverstone for a 10 second penalty, rear end Max because he didn't want to cross the drs line with Max being penalized (for Lewis running into him), Bottas taking out the field behind Lewis. The season should have been decided in Max's favour prior to Abudabi.
True but it's a very specific kind of driving ability. Fans tend to rate ace wet drivers really highly but driving tops in the wet doesnt necessarily mean you're tops overall. Most races are dry races, so you probably need to consider that first, though your point is well taken. Id say that it does tend to be the case that the best drivers drive wrll in the wet bc they drive well in ALL conditions. Its not this causal relationship where driving well in the wet makes you good. Youre good, ergo you drive well in all conditions. But I agree that isolating wet races is a solid metric for sure. Definitely a fun latitude to place drivers on.
Max will drive other categories (prototypes) later in his career and then the real comparisons can begin. Anyone that watches the man drive in iRacing will see the level of his skill is beyond belief. He is a true racer through and through and is only gaining experience as time goes by
@@trance9158 So I assume you are also complaining constantly about the illegal tire testing Merc did before they went on their dominant streak, no even talking about them starting engine development earlier and strongarming the FIA into hybrids (thank them for no V10s). Am I right? You complain about that too, right? Or do you just act like an 8 year old whose favourite driver lost because he wasnt good enough?
There you have it, what I thought all along. Lewis is very good but not outstanding. You never got this wowing feeling like with max in Brazil '24 for instance. I mean, Rosberg has beaten him and this year Russel. Lewis is a great driver for sure, but never mention him as probably the goat again. Stats only don't count, the fans have to be unanimous and they're just not, maybe only in Britain ....
Bro talk about yourself. Hamilton has more wowing moments than Verstappen has races. Max lost to ricciardo twice btw since we are gonna talk about teammates. (the only decent teammate he ever had)
Defining actual GOAT settings based on "facts". Love it Peter! There is always the nuance and decisions/opportunities with an "on any given Sunday" situation. However, comparing Max and his fellow world champs (notably Lewis) through the data illustrates the importance of reality checks. Cheers!
We don't know how good Max is because he never has to worry about internal competition. The whole team is built around him and the 2nd RB driver is there merely to support him. Liam Lawson has been told to not challenge Max. Why can't Max test himself against a top tier teammate? All his teammates since Ricciardo have been rookies or mid-tier
Max is exceptional, Schumacher and Prost are very good, and excel at the politics of the sport, but the very best pure driver will always be the Gentleman from Balcarce, Juan Manuel Fangio.
@@Dante-w8f Max beat the 'internal competition' in the eyes of the RB management a long time before he became the #1 driver. They - Horner and Marko - knew what they got under contract: a future race- and championship-winner. And so did Toto, but RB got him first. Then came Barcelona 2016, where youngest F1 driver - Max - won his debut race in the RedBull; even Niki Lauda told the world Max was the talent of the century. Naturally the team try to give their future champion a fast as possible car, to maximize his chances... It's clever to have a #2 driver in the team, who actually is and behaves like a #2. Two equal rivaling drivers in one team is asking for internal problems: i.e. Senna/Prost, Rosberg/Hamilton, Leclerc/Sainz, Norris/Piastri..
Peter, I’m first and foremost a F1 fan, since May 1979… I’m a LH44, stood in front of Michael, you name it. You know when I knew Max is the next Senna? 21 in Barcelona, turn 2 in the opening lap, and he passes LH on the outside, a move which is almost impossible…. Max is a true champion, because he’s a fighter. LH is and always will be my champion, because he’s shown it time and again, much like Prost did, win, when everybody had counted him out? Keep rocking
Finally! Thank you so much for this video. I hope this will finally help put an end to the discussion about Max's abilities. Instead of criticizing, let's enjoy his talent. What we're witnessing right now is truly unique. The data speaks for itself. Once again, let's enjoy it!
@@Dante-w8f Well, if you want to call Perez, Sainz, Ricciardo, and Albon bad drivers, you have a point. I don''t think they are. But he outperformed them all. And then again, look at the data
@@Dante-w8fyou can‘t see Max‘ greatness, because you‘re looking for arguments against it brother. If Max had driven against a Sainz and beaten him in comparable fashion to how he outperformed every other teammate, you‘d probably be in denial and claim that RB is simply a one man team, sabotaging Sainz. Just enjoy witnessing greatness live, I am literally thankful for getting to watch this dude drive live, and not having to just hear about it like with Clark or Senna, because I wasn‘t even born back then.
Data does not lie... But the biased fans will always find excuses. For me Max is the greatest and his prime still has to begin... In time he will be the undisputed goat. The numbers will tell...
Real comparisons remain impossible. Not even putting them all in the same car on the same track at the same time and in their prime would give a totally correct outcome. But it still is an interresting discussion. Thanks!
Clark was for me the best, being a 50 year old F1 fan, having watched all the races where there is some images available. You can't compare generations but in these times consistency is king and Max is the most consistent one ever, being able to eek out a lead being 0,2 secs faster every lap...
Wow 🤩 I love this. What a great inside into F1. Data doesn’t lie, Max is so far ahead of everyone nowadays. Let’s hope he will have a competitive car next season than it’s going to be fun.
You can manipulate statistics do prove anything you want, in sports or any other subject. It's why the eye test and stats have fueled 24/7 sports talk TV and radio. But your videos are undeniably the best on F1...no stats needed :)
@deanlawrence871 - 2016 was the 3rd year of the turbo-hybrid formula and Mercedes dominance. Rosberg won the WDC title in 2016 by 5pts over Hamilton whom had the only DNF from Mercedes in Malaysia. Ricciardo came in 3rd...then Vettel in 4th. Max came in 5th place in seasonal points for 2016.
@@shro8605 He hasnt been beaten on speed, perhaps on points yes, but that is a comparison for donkeys and fanboys.. Its actually Sainz who was his main competitor not Daniel... Sainz was the closest to Max 0.06 slower than max. Faster Qualify Sainz vs verstappen 0.06% Ricciardo vs verstappen 0.11% Gasly vs verstappen 0.45% Albon vs verstappen 0.62% Perez vs verstappen 0.46% Faster Race wins Sainz vs verstappen 54.5% Ricciardo vs verstappen 60.6% Gasly vs verstappen 90% Albon vs verstappen 88.9%
TLDR; Greats are in that order Clark > Verstappen > Ascari > Fangio > Schumacher > Vettel > Senna > Hamilton. When it comes to winning with having dominant car or just a decent car Max is the best. Vettel and Lewis are at the opposite end.
very interesting stats. thanks for the info! but it is just unreal that max is doing now, that it is even comparable to fangio and clark, ascari, while it is now so much more difficult. there is so much more competition. it is just nuts. also can we just get max into clark his car and let him drive around zandvoort. i just like to know what laptime he would set
Fascinating theoty, amazing statistics and probably the best way to determine the GOAT. Would love to see the stats if the drivers entire F1 career was considered cause anyone whose chosen GOAT isnt the winner here, will raise that as an objection. But I love this. Thanks Peter for putting this on.
He was hired to TR to let him adapt to F1. He was promoted to F1 and by a bit of luck (Rosberg Hamilton collision) was to drive for P1 Barcelona 2016. Now he had the people behind him to show what he with a quality team can achieve. A driver like Verstappen gets everybody in focus and make achievements like this possible. In the early days it was more (not only) luck to have a car that performed with a driver that could handle it. These days it is so close it in my opinion is even more impressive to have a streek of four titles than ever before.
@Michel-r6m lmao a driver that's a reckless petulant child? You seem to have forgotten all the toxicity that's come from RB, Max, Marko, and Horner... FFS
@trance9158 get out of here , every comment you're hating on verstappen like a petulant child, you're the one bringing all the toxicity you hypocrite 😮
Thank you. As an individual. I'm not mad about him. At all. Although. For what he does. Is masterly perfection. A gut feeling automoten. On auto pilot. Presently. In his stride. Whipping the smoke out of most. Will be interesting to how SLH is going to perform in an un-sabotaged Ferrari!
What a lovely video for the off-season. Cory, its the assumptions you make, to be fair, you acknowledge this, and you are clever enough to troll Windsor with Jim Clark. Verstappen is incredible, but Fangio is and remains the Maestro, never forget that JMF did not get to F1 until he was 36 years old, has the highest all-time win percentage, and, drove for four different manufacturers; wish to say Fangio jumped to the best car, yes, of course, and why, because Fangio was the undisputed best driver and every team wanted him. Eye test? 1957 German GP at Nurburgring- from many minutes down to victory lap record after lap record. Max may be that good, Jim Clark was close, Nigel and Ayrton especially on their day were amazing, but Juan Manual Fangio the humble gentleman from Balcarce is still the best anyone has ever seen.
Thanks John, and yes, 1957 Germany I talk about (might make the 2nd video). Just astounding stuff by Fangio, And yes! He was old when F1 started and he Still has those stats!
I.m watching Senna on Netflix. He was my favorite driver back then.. My first race was with my Dad at the Nurburgring in 1976 as a five year old when Lauda crashed. Not old enough to understand what happened. My Dad was in tears,he was a big Lauda fan. In 1994 we were at Imola together when Senna crashed.I was devistated. Back then Senna was the villain,he was victim of the relentlous actions from Balestre,at that time the Sulayem from the FIA. I see so much similarities with Max now. Max has the same qualities Senna had. Straight forward,no nonsense. Max is the villain now and i love it. He is in another league,his own league,like Senna was. And they share the same brilliance,devotion and honesty. Pure racers and for me Max is the GOAT. As long as Max is driving in F1 nobody will beat him.Never.
interesting and in general the precentages do confirm the picture that had in my mind. I only would say that we now live in an age that a dominating car for a whole season has become an exception. It is depebnding to strong of the type of grand prrix. Also we live in the age of tire-management. Qualifications doesn't need tire-management but races do. In my opinion that is why Charles won so many poles but no races in 2022. Also, and that is my biggest complain is that how much is a dominating car the result of having the dominating car or the result of an incredible driver who fastly outperforms his car, including including risk taking and racing style like oversteer and short corner drtviing. IMO you should really analyse each GP on its onw merit to say if the car was dominate or not. Especially in this time and age.
@@kj48tigerthe W12 was actually 0.053s per lap faster on average over the season. Newey wants to take some credit for the WDC win that year, and rightfully so. But Max did win in inferior machinery (albeit not inferior by much).
11:15 Yes but we’re not catering for the fact Max has never had a WDC teammate or a competitive teammate in that Period of time. Lewis has multiple times over. Even now he had an opportunity to have Carlos in the Second seat which would’ve guaranteed a constructors title win
Agreed. In my opinion, it's the final hurdle to GOAT. That's why redbulls choice for drivers has been disappointing. I think Max is faster than Carlos, yet RB still didn't want him in the car, just shows you how coddled Max is. Easy to look like a genius in the fastest car and a weak teamate.
The difficulty in domparong eras is also related to the gaps between the cars. We could have second first to last right now. 40 years ago there would be 2 seconds between first and 2nd.
I was an athlete. My mother was incredible in instilling goal setting and visions. I guarantee you that when he told Max “your ceiling is Senna.” Max would be telling this guy off and thinking “no, my ceiling is Max Verstappen.” Some people think differently.
but rosberg is validated as a high tier driver by doing great against hamilton. by that logic Gasly couldve been 'a rosberg' ..but max just crushed him. I think its very likely max wouldve crushed rosberg too in that prime merc. The point is, you're using Rosberg's performance to validate Lewis, but in reality, Rosberg's own validation comes from competing against Lewis. The logic is flawed, its like saying a runner's speed is proven by how well they race against a champion, but then using the runner's ability to validate the champion’s skill. in a two man race (dominant cars) this is circular reasoning since the runner’s worth is only highlighted by the champion, but you’re using the runner to prove the champion's greatness.
@@dco1019 -No, Rosberg was already considered a very good driver BEFORE Hamilton joined Merc....in fact, Rosberg was tipped to beat Hamilton when he first joined. Rosberg's validation comes mainly from demolishing Schumacher 3-0
@@shro8605 Schumacher was a washed up senior who quit racing for years. Also gasly was considered a very good driver before he joined RBR. Thats what im saying Gasly couldve been 'a rosberg'
I think Cory did an excellent job here . But he needs to somehow reconsider Michael Schumacher who I believe is probably better than Max . If things went his way then Michael would have won the WDC in 97, 98 , 99 and 2006 . Remember we only had 17 races back then and no DRS . And Michael only had dominant cars in 2004 , 2002 , possibly 1995 . The FIA changed the rules in 2003 specifically to slow down Michael . This has never happened before or will happen again in F1 . Max was also incredible by winning 19 out 23 races last year when he had the dominant car . So he probably does better than Michael in that category . But overall I think he is a close second to Michael .
Consider throwing out the race domination, and similar, intangibles. This is a component conservation and budet cap era. The very best current races are all tyre management, and the power unit is raced ove six or seven GPs.
@@Dante-w8f 2008 was a good / nice year but the advantage differences of Ferrari vs McLaren wasn't overwhelming at ALL. Massa suffered an engine failure in Hungary while leading, costing him a sure win. Massa's spin in Malaysia and pit lane mistakes, the infamous "fuel hose incident" in Singapore, cost valuable points. Räikkönen's form dropped in the second half of the season, limiting Ferrari's ability to score consistently. McLaren generally made fewer strategic mistakes and had a more reliable car, allowing Hamilton to capitalize when Ferrari made dumb errors. In the last race Lewis Hamilton's team's strategy was crucial, the timing of the rain and Timo Glock's who had gambled on staying out on dry tyres that tipped the scales in Hamilton's favor with HUGE luck... McLaren's decisions, especially the tyre changes were critical in keeping him in contention. So..Lewis had huge luck due to others misfortune in 2008 not because his faster than all others in a less car, like Max, Senna, Schumi did. Partly true, although 2018 the Mercedes W09 was one of the fastest cars on the grid, but not always fastest across all tracks, that is true. But not as near what is believed if you look at stats. Ferrari's car development seemed to stagnate after the mid-season break, allowing Mercedes to regain their dominance again. Over the course of the season, the Mercedes W09 was the most consistent and had the upper hand on a majority of circuits, particularly after the summer break. RedBull did outpace them occasionally. But Merc was still the most dominant car that season
I love how invested people are in these debates. Writing multiple paragraphs defending someone who doesn’t know they exist like their life depends on it… Truly hilarious.
Imagine talking down to people while having „he/him“ in your bio, don‘t you have bigger problems to worry about than people being passionate about a sport they follow?
Me thinks thou dost protest too much. I follow the sport, have watched nearly every quali and race every week available to watch in my locality for going on 15 years. I just don’t have a parasocial relationship with the drivers such that my own self worth is wrapped up in how others perceive a car driver.
@@DustySideswho said that anyone has their self worth tied to a driver? Do people just disagree or argue when something their self worth is tied to is involved?
You can tell by the level of personal attacks, hyperbole, and desperation of people’s posts that it is indeed personal. Like, going to someone’s profile and trying to level completely unrelated culture war attacks says someone is taking it very personally.
@@DustySides you come in here and your first comment ever on the channel is talking down to people - you didn‘t expect being talked down to yourself, did you?
Think there's an issue with what you call a 'perfect lap'....winning by two (2) minutes or a lap over the entire field is almost impossible in the past 2 decades....
for sky maybe... for experts they all know Lewis has had huge amount of luck in switching teams, with that he never really dominated his teammate entirely except Koviannen...
Also the 2022 RB car was totally dominant on race pace. It was very much like the 2019 Merc. Another team was often quicker on Saturday, but on Sunday, both the RB (2022) & Merc (2019) were in a league of their own.
No disrespect intended, but for me, this is a classic example of how little Americans understand the sport of F1. To mention Bahrain 2021...Hamilton exceeded track limits 29x because it was agreed in the pre-race notes that turn 4 would not be policed in regards to setting a lap time, so why is Corey saying Verstappen should have won that race? Also, Cory has given zero consideration into the quality of teammates. Verstappen doesn't have teammates....his teammates are not allowed to challenge him and there to support him. Even the sister RB team often support Verstappen.
Also doesn't take into consideration that Jim Clark and other drivers up until the late 1970s raced all year long if you count non-championship events, significantly up until the mid-late 1960s official Grand Prix that counted towards the championship outgrew non-champ events. Not specific enough
Cory Here: 1. Because to go into teammate quality, you would be venturing into a level of Subjectivism no one wants to go near. Now we’re debating Rubens vs. Rosberg, Francis Cavert vs. Perez, Peter Collins vs. Mark Webber. I mean, that’s ridiculous since they didn’t accomplish enough to have detailed data, and were at different levels in different seasons. And even if you get through that, it would take even more factors of subjectivity. It’s better to just use it as an afterthought when you have 2 drivers Really cost to reach other to maybe clinch the argument. 2. In Bahrain 2021, the Point, is that Hamilton gained about 0.7-1 second in that race by doing that, MEANING Max would have caught him earlier and would have surely had time to get him, Plus, for god’s sake, can F1 REWARD the great pass?? This is like the NFL killing Great catches because the guys toe Kiiind of touched the white. And forget that I’m American which single gives me negative points (I have Never watched the Netflix show once fyi), I’ve watched F1 since I was 2, and know Many in F1.
@@CPez -This is a load of nonsense. Teammate quality is a massive part in how well a driver performs. Senna had Prost, Prost had Senna, Hamilton had WDCs Alonso, Button and Nico Rosberg who was able to demolish Michael Schumacher 3-0. Verstappen has had inexperienced near rookies and mid tier drivers like Perez as teammates. Next year, Verstappen is having yet another rookie teammate Lawson who has been told he is only there to support Max. Put Max against a better calibre teammate and he doesn't look like the supposed god you are trying to portray him as. As for Bahrain 2021 if Max didn't have the intelligence and nouse to take advantage of exceeding track limits as was allowed by the pre race notes, then that's his problem. So no, Max should NOT be given Bahrain 2021
Winning races in a car that’s actually not able to win a race, that basically just means that the opposition was poor, unlucky or messed up on the day. Which introduces another important variable: what is the quality of the overall field.
My dad is 89 and he watched F1 30 years ago. He says Max Verstappen is the best Red Bull driver ever. Better than David Coulthard 😂. He's also better than Schumacher...Ralf that is. 😂😂😂
The trouble with these statisticians especially the American approach to sports, is that you lose the essence, the driver character and spirit of the sport
All stats need context. When Hamilton had his most dominant car (2014-2016), he also had a very quick teammate and mechanical reliability wasn't bullet proof. Let's not forget that Rosberg was able to handily beat Michael Schumacher for 3 seasons on the trot, so Rosberg was no slouch. Senna and Prost also had good teammates . Contrast Verstappen---his teammates are there merely to support him. I think Verstappen needs to prove himself against a high calibre teammate. All the other GOAT contenders have done so. The common theme i see in a lot of the comments is the teammate effect. Verstappen didn't look so great when he actually had a strong teammate. Sainz was able to outqualify him while Ricciardo outqualified him in 2016 & beat him 2 seasons to 1.
Never compare mercedes Schumi to Ferrari Schumi. He helped mercedes develop their car. He has a almost fatal motorbike accident couple years before, broke his neck and back, and much more horrible injuries. He never fully recovered and that's the only reason Rosberg beat him . Suggest you google about that accident.
When there is no competitive driver that makes Max a less skilled driver? He beat his rival Lando despite having a slower car. I don't see how George beating Lewis 2 out of 3 seasons makes Lewis better.
Max hasnt been beaten on speed, perhaps on points yes, but that is a comparison for donkeys and fanboys.. Its actually Sainz who was his main competitor not Daniel... Sainz was the closest to Max 0.06 slower than max. Faster Qualify Sainz vs verstappen 0.06% Ricciardo vs verstappen 0.11% Gasly vs verstappen 0.45% Albon vs verstappen 0.62% Perez vs verstappen 0.46% Faster Race wins Sainz vs verstappen 54.5% Ricciardo vs verstappen 60.6% Gasly vs verstappen 90% Albon vs verstappen 88.9% Lewis, he never had competition other then his teammate and Max. Metrics like qualifying head-to-heads and performance relative to teammates provide a more accurate picture of driver skill. Hamilton has had strong teammates (Alonso, Button, Rosberg), but his head-to-head qualifying stats (e.g., against Bottas) are skewed because Bottas was often relegated to a nr2 support role. Against Alonso in 2007, Hamilton’s debut season was one of the few times he was on completely equal footing with his teammate, finishing level on points. Verstappen has dominated his teammates (Gasly, Albon, Pérez) but also faced strong competition from Daniel Ricciardo, Sainz early in his career. Unlike Hamilton, Verstappen didn’t benefit from clear number-two drivers in his early years, making his results even more impressive. 2023 was definitely his most convincing title. He had a dominant car but its the fashion in which he won it! Remind you Lewis has almost always had the fastest car with 30-50bhp more when he won..., bit like Max in a 2023 car. Max had that car for less time then LH with his Merc dominant car. Basically if you put any F1 clown in that Merc they would have won, Bottas was nice example...
There is a very important factor that´s missing! The relative speed differences between cars, the last years we had most of the qualifying sessions with the firs ten in one second. This used to be two to three seconds in the Mercedes dominant era, In the McLaren Senna era there was about a second between pole and third on the grid. In the Ascari era there was about 6 seconds between the first ten on the grid. And when the weather "equalizes" the car performance, Max pulls out a from 17th to first in the rain and finished 16 seconds ahead of anyone.
If you factor this in then Max´s statistics are even more impressive, in my opinion he´s on top of all. I´m following F1 for about 50 years now.
most impressive stat to me is that he beats ascari race win % record in a season, while driving almost 3 times as many races, completely unreal stat.
quali pace is close but race pace isnt... RedBull is still seconds faster than a Williams on race day. Plus there is no dirty air these days…
@@hanstubben no... You just proved how dominant the car is .. or was.
Very good point and I bet that stat will easy to calculate since all data is available.
Quality pace is far less relevant now though. Not sure this is a great metric.
My grandfather is 84 years old he watches F1 since young age and he works in motorsports for long time in Portugal.
He always said to me "the best F1 drivers ever are Jim Clark, Senna and Verstappen" and he was talking about Max since 2014, Max was not even in F1 and he was telling me this boy is going to be one of the best ever in F1!
Made up story 😂
After watching Brazil 2016 I spent two whole weeks telling my friends that dutch 18 year old was going to be one of the best in history. We will miss drivers like him when he retires
Dear Peter, it is quite brave that you dare to post this as a Brittish F1-expert in these divisive times. That makes you stand out for a lot of F1-loving people that watch the sport for over 40 years (like me). Keep up the good work!
Maybe try to get out of your bubble of hate and just enjoy the sport.
Nobody cares about how the bad men at Sky hurt your feefies.
What a nice thing to say 🙄@@StormcastMarine
youre living with your head in the clouds
Eddie Jordan had both Senna and Michael and says Max is better than both of them. I trust Eddie's opinion
I would believe him if he had had those two while being someone else than Eddie Jordan. Haha
Eddie is a clown.
@@B-kl8vj but a competent clown
Lol. That is something Eddie would say. Max is not as good Senna. Senna could make almost any car fast. Max has had a top tier car almost his entire career (same as many 'top" drivers). Then there is Senna's grit. Could max do what Senna did in Brazil, driving an F1 car with 1.5 arms practically willed on by God? No.
@@paskowitz though Brazil this year was a bit like Donington with Senna in the rain…
When you watch Brazil 2024, when power is not an advantage and you see all the other great drivers from young talents to Alonso not be able to keep in on the track and Max is hitting fastest lap after fastest lap, it's clear he is operating a step above in terms of talent, journalist are scared to offend, they don't give their opinions on who is the best anymore, they always accept excuses blah blah.
Reality is that Max is the best driver of this generation by a long shot
Tell us you're a biased crashstappen clanboy without telling us you're a crashstappen clanboy.
Full of shit... Compare his first 3 years in F1... Total disaster and a cluster fuck. Without help from masi and the fia and a car that was illegal he's nothing but backfield material...
@@trance9158 tell me you‘re a biased brit without telling me you‘re a biased brit 😁
Watching Max win is even better, when you remind yourself of how many british people are losing their love for the sport for this exact reason lmfao
Speaking of excuses.... Sounds like you're self projecting there Bubba J. Maybe you should stick to DTS.
@@trance9158 What about Brazil 2024 (or even Brazil 2016) was not great?
The RB20 was no longer the fastest car, rain has been Max's strong point as well, on top of his recovery, also set a record of most amount of fastest laps in a row, while others had trouble keeping it on track. (EDIT: actually, i couldn't verify that specific record claim, but there's a lot of other interesting records to his name though, you might want to check them out.)
I mean, where's the faults?
Sure, i'm a Dutch Max "fanboy", but this is like trying to mock Michael Jordan for having a flawless match, the guy is just at the top of his game and of the sport.
Why not engage with the argument, instead of resorting to ad nauseam.
It's very interesting to look at it more neutrally through statistics. However I still think looking at the great equaliser eg rain shows who the best drivers are and in my mind Senna and Verstappen are absolutely a cut above everyone else... Imagine both of them on the same track in the wet...
Clarke was just as dominant in the wet. Schumacher also
What a quality video, the host, the guest, the content, the music...everything is lit
Before Max step in the formula 1, wolff and horner want him because they saw his talent.
Max is the only driver on the grid that stop the lewis / Mercedes dominance. Without a Mercedes.
Max is faster then lewis.
Max is faster by far.. and Lewis knows that as well, so does the bias British Sky...
I 100% agree max is faster
But it’s also not fair
Because max hasn’t raced Lewis in the era of cars that suited Lewis!
This era suits max’s driving style
Lewis seems to really struggle with this era as well!
Anywho I agree max is faster by far
These statistics are Simply Lovely!!!
The numbers from the 2021 champions shows the truth: Max was the Champion by distance
@@atanasio13ltv no he was handed the WDC by masi.. a fact you'll never change and there will be an asterisk by that as well
@@trance9158buddy, you’re commenting on every pro max comment. Get a life.
@nodekapunk go play in the road if it hurts your delicate feelings there precious.
He was the driver of the season @trance9158 in an inferior car riddled with bad luck and poor reliability while lewis got the opposite and still held on. The baby jesus made sure he got that title and the next 9. Now try different glu mate she's not working for ye. Buhhhhhhhhhh
In a slower car and those of us who watched the season saw Lewis gain advantage without giving position back 3 races, pit maneuver Max at Silverstone for a 10 second penalty, rear end Max because he didn't want to cross the drs line with Max being penalized (for Lewis running into him), Bottas taking out the field behind Lewis. The season should have been decided in Max's favour prior to Abudabi.
I'd love to see stats for races under heavy rain where the car doesn't matter much, it's the driver's ability that shines.
True but it's a very specific kind of driving ability. Fans tend to rate ace wet drivers really highly but driving tops in the wet doesnt necessarily mean you're tops overall. Most races are dry races, so you probably need to consider that first, though your point is well taken.
Id say that it does tend to be the case that the best drivers drive wrll in the wet bc they drive well in ALL conditions. Its not this causal relationship where driving well in the wet makes you good. Youre good, ergo you drive well in all conditions.
But I agree that isolating wet races is a solid metric for sure. Definitely a fun latitude to place drivers on.
🤧 Here's a tissue for the Max haters. Merry Xmas everyone 🎄 Let 25 be as good as 24.
@@mikeewhite you're going to be crying next season and trying to make excuses for your reckless petulant child.
@@mikeewhite Ha. I started out disliking Max like many did with Seb but I love him now. But I think he may won his last championship now.
Max will drive other categories (prototypes) later in his career and then the real comparisons can begin. Anyone that watches the man drive in iRacing will see the level of his skill is beyond belief. He is a true racer through and through and is only gaining experience as time goes by
So true regarding 2021. All the British DTS watchers love crying about 2021 but the stats don’t lie. Max dominated Lewis
@@ctopczewski but would have lost if it wasn't for masi cheating
@@trance9158 So I assume you are also complaining constantly about the illegal tire testing Merc did before they went on their dominant streak, no even talking about them starting engine development earlier and strongarming the FIA into hybrids (thank them for no V10s). Am I right? You complain about that too, right? Or do you just act like an 8 year old whose favourite driver lost because he wasnt good enough?
@@trance9158 You'r level of Verstappen hate is seriously toxic, why don't you accept reality, may be a shrink could help ?
@@trance9158 Human error was the ruling; spouting unfounded nonsense won't change things. You will never convince yourself of this.
He dominated so much that he needed to drive like a kamikazi and benefit from the greatest robbery in history to win it. lol
There you have it, what I thought all along. Lewis is very good but not outstanding. You never got this wowing feeling like with max in Brazil '24 for instance. I mean, Rosberg has beaten him and this year Russel. Lewis is a great driver for sure, but never mention him as probably the goat again. Stats only don't count, the fans have to be unanimous and they're just not, maybe only in Britain ....
Max has driven againt anyone good since Ricciardo
It’s good to see there are also other people who see that
@@foshizzlemb you're ignorant.
Bro talk about yourself. Hamilton has more wowing moments than Verstappen has races. Max lost to ricciardo twice btw since we are gonna talk about teammates. (the only decent teammate he ever had)
@@kj48tiger😂😂
Defining actual GOAT settings based on "facts". Love it Peter! There is always the nuance and decisions/opportunities with an "on any given Sunday" situation. However, comparing Max and his fellow world champs (notably Lewis) through the data illustrates the importance of reality checks. Cheers!
and max is only 27...........hopefully much more to come
Fangio never started a grand prix until he was almost 37 years old.
@@johnhill7058 In a completely different era.
Max vs Senna for finesse. Max vs Schumacher for mental toughness. Max vs Prost for turn-in take-outs and he still beats them all.
We don't know how good Max is because he never has to worry about internal competition. The whole team is built around him and the 2nd RB driver is there merely to support him. Liam Lawson has been told to not challenge Max. Why can't Max test himself against a top tier teammate? All his teammates since Ricciardo have been rookies or mid-tier
Max is exceptional, Schumacher and Prost are very good, and excel at the politics of the sport, but the very best pure driver will always be the Gentleman from Balcarce, Juan Manuel Fangio.
@@Dante-w8f
Max beat the 'internal competition' in the eyes of the RB management a long time before he became the #1 driver. They - Horner and Marko - knew what they got under contract: a future race- and championship-winner. And so did Toto, but RB got him first.
Then came Barcelona 2016, where youngest F1 driver - Max - won his debut race in the RedBull; even Niki Lauda told the world Max was the talent of the century.
Naturally the team try to give their future champion a fast as possible car, to maximize his chances...
It's clever to have a #2 driver in the team, who actually is and behaves like a #2. Two equal rivaling drivers in one team is asking for internal problems: i.e. Senna/Prost, Rosberg/Hamilton, Leclerc/Sainz, Norris/Piastri..
Peter, I’m first and foremost a F1 fan, since May 1979… I’m a LH44, stood in front of Michael, you name it. You know when I knew Max is the next Senna? 21 in Barcelona, turn 2 in the opening lap, and he passes LH on the outside, a move which is almost impossible…. Max is a true champion, because he’s a fighter. LH is and always will be my champion, because he’s shown it time and again, much like Prost did, win, when everybody had counted him out? Keep rocking
Finally! Thank you so much for this video. I hope this will finally help put an end to the discussion about Max's abilities. Instead of criticizing, let's enjoy his talent. What we're witnessing right now is truly unique. The data speaks for itself. Once again, let's enjoy it!
How do we know how good Max is when his teammates are so subpar/inexperienced & hired to support rather than challenge him?
@@Dante-w8f Well, if you want to call Perez, Sainz, Ricciardo, and Albon bad drivers, you have a point. I don''t think they are. But he outperformed them all. And then again,
look at the data
@@Dante-w8fyou can‘t see Max‘ greatness, because you‘re looking for arguments against it brother. If Max had driven against a Sainz and beaten him in comparable fashion to how he outperformed every other teammate, you‘d probably be in denial and claim that RB is simply a one man team, sabotaging Sainz.
Just enjoy witnessing greatness live, I am literally thankful for getting to watch this dude drive live, and not having to just hear about it like with Clark or Senna, because I wasn‘t even born back then.
@@silversub - Sainz & Ricciardo outqualified and beat Max. While Albon was a rookie when he was partnered with Max.
But this video isn’t about that time. Pay attention to the years as well @Dante-w8f
Fantastic piece! Cory could power an F1 engine on his own! Never seen so much energy. Thank you Peter
I’m watching F1 since the early eighties. As a race fan, not as a fanboy. For me Verstappen is the best pure racer I have ever seen.
Data does not lie... But the biased fans will always find excuses. For me Max is the greatest and his prime still has to begin... In time he will be the undisputed goat. The numbers will tell...
If he races long enough and Redbull gives him a competetive car then yes it'll be a wash I think. Hes only 27
Wow, this man has some serious F1 knowledge!
Real comparisons remain impossible. Not even putting them all in the same car on the same track at the same time and in their prime would give a totally correct outcome. But it still is an interresting discussion. Thanks!
Clark was for me the best, being a 50 year old F1 fan, having watched all the races where there is some images available. You can't compare generations but in these times consistency is king and Max is the most consistent one ever, being able to eek out a lead being 0,2 secs faster every lap...
Wow 🤩 I love this. What a great inside into F1. Data doesn’t lie, Max is so far ahead of everyone nowadays. Let’s hope he will have a competitive car next season than it’s going to be fun.
There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Competent analysts can make any stats sing whatever tune they conduct.
You can manipulate statistics do prove anything you want, in sports or any other subject. It's why the eye test and stats have fueled 24/7 sports talk TV and radio. But your videos are undeniably the best on F1...no stats needed :)
Wow! As a long term F.1 fan, this all makes sense.
Thankyou for this different perspective, gentlemen!
Interlagos 2016 and Interlagos 2024 in the wet. No one comes close to Max in an inferior car in the wet. He is a rain God.
Agree 2024 class of his own. But in 2016 he was quicker than everyone except Lewis. (From memory)
@deanlawrence871 - 2016 was the 3rd year of the turbo-hybrid formula and Mercedes dominance. Rosberg won the WDC title in 2016 by 5pts over Hamilton whom had the only DNF from Mercedes in Malaysia. Ricciardo came in 3rd...then Vettel in 4th. Max came in 5th place in seasonal points for 2016.
I love these kind of stats...the raw number just leave so much unsaid
Exactly. That’s what motivates me to do these. Thanks!
Great content! Bring Cory more.
How good is Lawson and Tsunoda should be the conversation, don't you know by now why and how good Max is Peter!
Forgot to add a 'got beaten by their teammate' category (correction)*misinformation
It’s in there. Lewis has been beat 4 of 18 times.
@CPez didn't catch it I guess
@@CPez -Max has been beaten 2 out 10 times but won't ever be beaten again because his teammates are hired to support Max
@@majdsarhan1990In just watching it for the first time so maybe it didn’t make the edit haha. I could send the picture though.
@@shro8605 He hasnt been beaten on speed, perhaps on points yes, but that is a comparison for donkeys and fanboys..
Its actually Sainz who was his main competitor not Daniel... Sainz was the closest to Max 0.06 slower than max.
Faster Qualify
Sainz vs verstappen 0.06%
Ricciardo vs verstappen 0.11%
Gasly vs verstappen 0.45%
Albon vs verstappen 0.62%
Perez vs verstappen 0.46%
Faster Race wins
Sainz vs verstappen 54.5%
Ricciardo vs verstappen 60.6%
Gasly vs verstappen 90%
Albon vs verstappen 88.9%
TLDR; Greats are in that order Clark > Verstappen > Ascari > Fangio > Schumacher > Vettel > Senna > Hamilton. When it comes to winning with having dominant car or just a decent car Max is the best. Vettel and Lewis are at the opposite end.
The movie Moneyball looks at the difference between perception and statistics in Baseball
Incredible insightful video. Love it!!
very interesting stats. thanks for the info! but it is just unreal that max is doing now, that it is even comparable to fangio and clark, ascari, while it is now so much more difficult. there is so much more competition. it is just nuts. also can we just get max into clark his car and let him drive around zandvoort. i just like to know what laptime he would set
@@elecovanrenss1352 it's the car and all the aiding and abetting from the FIA
@@trance9158 hahaha that made me laugh! thanks! great joke upvote to you!
Let me save you 24 minutes. Max is the greatest of all time, hands down.
max is sehr good 🍺
Loved this.
Fascinating theoty, amazing statistics and probably the best way to determine the GOAT. Would love to see the stats if the drivers entire F1 career was considered cause anyone whose chosen GOAT isnt the winner here, will raise that as an objection. But I love this. Thanks Peter for putting this on.
We go over that in the next video haha
The very best of all times. I was saying it even before the first title, because of the overall difference from his teammates.
Peter once told me he doesn’t have an outro, so let’s call it his “signature musical ending” haha Whatever we call it though, I enjoy it (-8
Should somehow be required viewing for F1 fans
Yeah, Max is the best ever 🙌🏻
Would have love to Hear you conclude this video at the end Peter
I am only 3 min into the thing and already love is. My research heart is coming to life.
He was hired to TR to let him adapt to F1. He was promoted to F1 and by a bit of luck (Rosberg Hamilton collision) was to drive for P1 Barcelona 2016.
Now he had the people behind him to show what he with a quality team can achieve.
A driver like Verstappen gets everybody in focus and make achievements like this possible.
In the early days it was more (not only) luck to have a car that performed with a driver that could handle it.
These days it is so close it in my opinion is even more impressive to have a streek of four titles than ever before.
@Michel-r6m lmao a driver that's a reckless petulant child? You seem to have forgotten all the toxicity that's come from RB, Max, Marko, and Horner... FFS
@trance9158 get out of here , every comment you're hating on verstappen like a petulant child, you're the one bringing all the toxicity you hypocrite 😮
@@trance9158 He is talking about race results, if you want to talk about personalities go somewhere else.
Thank you.
As an individual. I'm not mad about him. At all. Although.
For what he does. Is masterly perfection. A gut feeling automoten. On auto pilot. Presently. In his stride. Whipping the smoke out of most.
Will be interesting to how SLH is going to perform in an un-sabotaged Ferrari!
What a lovely video for the off-season. Cory, its the assumptions you make, to be fair, you acknowledge this, and you are clever enough to troll Windsor with Jim Clark. Verstappen is incredible, but Fangio is and remains the Maestro, never forget that JMF did not get to F1 until he was 36 years old, has the highest all-time win percentage, and, drove for four different manufacturers; wish to say Fangio jumped to the best car, yes, of course, and why, because Fangio was the undisputed best driver and every team wanted him. Eye test? 1957 German GP at Nurburgring- from many minutes down to victory lap record after lap record. Max may be that good, Jim Clark was close, Nigel and Ayrton especially on their day were amazing, but Juan Manual Fangio the humble gentleman from Balcarce is still the best anyone has ever seen.
Thanks John, and yes, 1957 Germany I talk about (might make the 2nd video). Just astounding stuff by Fangio, And yes! He was old when F1 started and he Still has those stats!
Max is right on top with Fangio, Clark and Senna, but he is stilll active
I.m watching Senna on Netflix. He was my favorite driver back then.. My first race was with my Dad at the Nurburgring in 1976 as a five year old when Lauda crashed. Not old enough to understand what happened. My Dad was in tears,he was a big Lauda fan. In 1994 we were at Imola together when Senna crashed.I was devistated. Back then Senna was the villain,he was victim of the relentlous actions from Balestre,at that time the Sulayem from the FIA. I see so much similarities with Max now. Max has the same qualities Senna had. Straight forward,no nonsense. Max is the villain now and i love it. He is in another league,his own league,like Senna was. And they share the same brilliance,devotion and honesty. Pure racers and for me Max is the GOAT. As long as Max is driving in F1 nobody will beat him.Never.
If Max is so great and unbeatable, why Horner having to warn Lawson not to challenge him? Why does Max need so much help to beat his teammates?
@@shro8605 Really? Your comment is non relevant. Another fake F1 not knowing anything about F1. You are the laughing stock on this channel.
@@miquel440 -Go read Horner's comments. He has actually said that Lawson is there to support Max.
You missed the 2012 MP4/27 as a car that was capable of winning races and a title.
interesting and in general the precentages do confirm the picture that had in my mind. I only would say that we now live in an age that a dominating car for a whole season has become an exception. It is depebnding to strong of the type of grand prrix. Also we live in the age of tire-management. Qualifications doesn't need tire-management but races do. In my opinion that is why Charles won so many poles but no races in 2022. Also, and that is my biggest complain is that how much is a dominating car the result of having the dominating car or the result of an incredible driver who fastly outperforms his car, including including risk taking and racing style like oversteer and short corner drtviing. IMO you should really analyse each GP on its onw merit to say if the car was dominate or not. Especially in this time and age.
Very nice topic😊🙏
Best there ever was, best there ever will be. It's the eye test.
I always saw hamilton as the goat but verstappens ability to beat the mighty perez albon and gasly in equal machinery changed my mind
@@andrewmelton2686and beat Hamilton while in pretty much equal quality cars.
@@aaronb4936 Newey himself said the Redbull was faster on average which is absolutely true if you look at the whole season
@@kj48tigerthe W12 was actually 0.053s per lap faster on average over the season. Newey wants to take some credit for the WDC win that year, and rightfully so. But Max did win in inferior machinery (albeit not inferior by much).
@@andrewmelton2686 did you just say 'the mighty' ?
The comment section is going to be marvellous.
😁
Actually it’s just about ALL positive 🎉👍🏻. Glad people enjoy the countries hours I’ve put into this over the years.
11:15 Yes but we’re not catering for the fact Max has never had a WDC teammate or a competitive teammate in that Period of time. Lewis has multiple times over. Even now he had an opportunity to have Carlos in the Second seat which would’ve guaranteed a constructors title win
I guess you can qualify 2 as multiple but that’s not wrong, max never had a WDC as a teammate.
Agreed. In my opinion, it's the final hurdle to GOAT. That's why redbulls choice for drivers has been disappointing. I think Max is faster than Carlos, yet RB still didn't want him in the car, just shows you how coddled Max is. Easy to look like a genius in the fastest car and a weak teamate.
The difficulty in domparong eras is also related to the gaps between the cars. We could have second first to last right now. 40 years ago there would be 2 seconds between first and 2nd.
No surprise here for anyone who really knows the sport. I've never NOT included Clark in any top 5 list.
I was an athlete. My mother was incredible in instilling goal setting and visions. I guarantee you that when he told Max “your ceiling is Senna.” Max would be telling this guy off and thinking “no, my ceiling is Max Verstappen.” Some people think differently.
No actually. He thought about it and shook his head up and down and said “Man thank you so much. I’m going to try that for sure.”
@@CPez Inciteful; may we press you for how you came to be with Max at Helmut Marko's home?
@@CPez Thank you for the reply. Cheers.
You haven’t mentioned team mates and team strategies concerning team mates.
A very strong point you are missing is you dont factor in teammates. Hamilton had Rosberg for 3 years. Verstappen had fuck all
And don't forget Hamilton had Russell. 😂
@@Saiko-Johnny -And Hamilton had Alonso in 2007 & another peak WDC in Button. Max has had the easiest teammates of all.
but rosberg is validated as a high tier driver by doing great against hamilton. by that logic Gasly couldve been 'a rosberg' ..but max just crushed him. I think its very likely max wouldve crushed rosberg too in that prime merc. The point is, you're using Rosberg's performance to validate Lewis, but in reality, Rosberg's own validation comes from competing against Lewis. The logic is flawed, its like saying a runner's speed is proven by how well they race against a champion, but then using the runner's ability to validate the champion’s skill. in a two man race (dominant cars) this is circular reasoning since the runner’s worth is only highlighted by the champion, but you’re using the runner to prove the champion's greatness.
@@dco1019 -No, Rosberg was already considered a very good driver BEFORE Hamilton joined Merc....in fact, Rosberg was tipped to beat Hamilton when he first joined. Rosberg's validation comes mainly from demolishing Schumacher 3-0
@@shro8605 Schumacher was a washed up senior who quit racing for years. Also gasly was considered a very good driver before he joined RBR. Thats what im saying Gasly couldve been 'a rosberg'
He’s the best ever. Put every top 10 driver in the same car over a season and Max comes out on top.
Someone that talks more than peter!
When it’s a topic I love, Yes haha
Seat cushion from the Indy 500 in the background! Love it! I had one exactly like it. Indy 500 rules. 🏆 Great show Peter! Fascinating F1 talk.
He's pretty good.
How does Moss stack up?
That was awesome
Very good. Short answer
Haha all the facts show this Max is the best everrrrrr. already and he has still 10 years to go at least.
best at what? crashing and DNF? yeah, he's far ahead of Lewis there, because he doesn't know how to race within the rules.
I think Cory did an excellent job here . But he needs to somehow reconsider Michael Schumacher who I believe is probably better than Max . If things went his way then Michael would have won the WDC in 97, 98 , 99 and 2006 . Remember we only had 17 races back then and no DRS . And Michael only had dominant cars in 2004 , 2002 , possibly 1995 .
The FIA changed the rules in 2003 specifically to slow down Michael . This has never happened before or will happen again in F1 .
Max was also incredible by winning 19 out 23 races last year when he had the dominant car . So he probably does better than Michael in that category . But overall I think he is a close second to Michael .
Da best!
Consider throwing out the race domination, and similar, intangibles. This is a component conservation and budet cap era. The very best current races are all tyre management, and the power unit is raced ove six or seven GPs.
Max is the goat 2 wdc without the fastest car
You could argue 2008 & 2018 for Lewi....Ferrari arguably had the quickest car in both those years
@@Dante-w8f 2008 was a good / nice year but the advantage differences of Ferrari vs McLaren wasn't overwhelming at ALL.
Massa suffered an engine failure in Hungary while leading, costing him a sure win.
Massa's spin in Malaysia and pit lane mistakes, the infamous "fuel hose incident" in Singapore, cost valuable points.
Räikkönen's form dropped in the second half of the season, limiting Ferrari's ability to score consistently.
McLaren generally made fewer strategic mistakes and had a more reliable car, allowing Hamilton to capitalize when Ferrari made dumb errors.
In the last race Lewis Hamilton's team's strategy was crucial, the timing of the rain and Timo Glock's who had gambled on staying out on dry tyres that tipped the scales in Hamilton's favor with HUGE luck... McLaren's decisions, especially the tyre changes were critical in keeping him in contention.
So..Lewis had huge luck due to others misfortune in 2008 not because his faster than all others in a less car, like Max, Senna, Schumi did.
Partly true, although 2018 the Mercedes W09 was one of the fastest cars on the grid, but not always fastest across all tracks, that is true. But not as near what is believed if you look at stats. Ferrari's car development seemed to stagnate after the mid-season break, allowing Mercedes to regain their dominance again.
Over the course of the season, the Mercedes W09 was the most consistent and had the upper hand on a majority of circuits, particularly after the summer break. RedBull did outpace them occasionally. But Merc was still the most dominant car that season
I love how invested people are in these debates. Writing multiple paragraphs defending someone who doesn’t know they exist like their life depends on it… Truly hilarious.
Imagine talking down to people while having „he/him“ in your bio, don‘t you have bigger problems to worry about than people being passionate about a sport they follow?
Me thinks thou dost protest too much. I follow the sport, have watched nearly every quali and race every week available to watch in my locality for going on 15 years. I just don’t have a parasocial relationship with the drivers such that my own self worth is wrapped up in how others perceive a car driver.
@@DustySideswho said that anyone has their self worth tied to a driver? Do people just disagree or argue when something their self worth is tied to is involved?
You can tell by the level of personal attacks, hyperbole, and desperation of people’s posts that it is indeed personal. Like, going to someone’s profile and trying to level completely unrelated culture war attacks says someone is taking it very personally.
@@DustySides you come in here and your first comment ever on the channel is talking down to people - you didn‘t expect being talked down to yourself, did you?
Gilles Villeneuve stats would be very telling
Think there's an issue with what you call a 'perfect lap'....winning by two (2) minutes or a lap over the entire field is almost impossible in the past 2 decades....
Yes, but I needed Another data point for people’s like Clark and Ascari to prove hour good they were which young fans don’t know.
Well, Lewis does have 7 championships but Schumi was there first, so at least regarding that one, Schumi is in the lead till Lewis has eight…
for sky maybe... for experts they all know Lewis has had huge amount of luck in switching teams, with that he never really dominated his teammate entirely except Koviannen...
strength of field needs to be considered
GOAT
Well now I’m not really bothered by stats anymore… 🙄😂
Fernando, Valteri and Nico compared to Chekko?
Also the 2022 RB car was totally dominant on race pace. It was very much like the 2019 Merc. Another team was often quicker on Saturday, but on Sunday, both the RB (2022) & Merc (2019) were in a league of their own.
No, it wasn’t. The Ferrari was the dominant car in the first half year of 2022, but Ferrari and Charles f**ked up many races. Did you even watch?
@@PeterPost-w8m -Ferrari were quick for about the first 6 or so races....after that, RB became a ro cketship
Very #4
No disrespect intended, but for me, this is a classic example of how little Americans understand the sport of F1. To mention Bahrain 2021...Hamilton exceeded track limits 29x because it was agreed in the pre-race notes that turn 4 would not be policed in regards to setting a lap time, so why is Corey saying Verstappen should have won that race? Also, Cory has given zero consideration into the quality of teammates. Verstappen doesn't have teammates....his teammates are not allowed to challenge him and there to support him. Even the sister RB team often support Verstappen.
Yeah he's not being specific enough with his analysis. Race-by-race analysis, car comparisons - there isn't enough data.
Also doesn't take into consideration that Jim Clark and other drivers up until the late 1970s raced all year long if you count non-championship events, significantly up until the mid-late 1960s official Grand Prix that counted towards the championship outgrew non-champ events.
Not specific enough
Cory Here: 1. Because to go into teammate quality, you would be venturing into a level of Subjectivism no one wants to go near. Now we’re debating Rubens vs. Rosberg, Francis Cavert vs. Perez, Peter Collins vs. Mark Webber. I mean, that’s ridiculous since they didn’t accomplish enough to have detailed data, and were at different levels in different seasons. And even if you get through that, it would take even more factors of subjectivity. It’s better to just use it as an afterthought when you have 2 drivers Really cost to reach other to maybe clinch the argument. 2. In Bahrain 2021, the Point, is that Hamilton gained about 0.7-1 second in that race by doing that, MEANING Max would have caught him earlier and would have surely had time to get him, Plus, for god’s sake, can F1 REWARD the great pass?? This is like the NFL killing Great catches because the guys toe Kiiind of touched the white. And forget that I’m American which single gives me negative points (I have Never watched the Netflix show once fyi), I’ve watched F1 since I was 2, and know Many in F1.
@@MrNinjaFishBut most drivers didn’t compete in them on the honor system so it wouldn’t screw up the Title.
@@CPez -This is a load of nonsense. Teammate quality is a massive part in how well a driver performs. Senna had Prost, Prost had Senna, Hamilton had WDCs Alonso, Button and Nico Rosberg who was able to demolish Michael Schumacher 3-0. Verstappen has had inexperienced near rookies and mid tier drivers like Perez as teammates. Next year, Verstappen is having yet another rookie teammate Lawson who has been told he is only there to support Max. Put Max against a better calibre teammate and he doesn't look like the supposed god you are trying to portray him as. As for Bahrain 2021 if Max didn't have the intelligence and nouse to take advantage of exceeding track limits as was allowed by the pre race notes, then that's his problem. So no, Max should NOT be given Bahrain 2021
Winning races in a car that’s actually not able to win a race, that basically just means that the opposition was poor, unlucky or messed up on the day. Which introduces another important variable: what is the quality of the overall field.
Statistics are like a bikini, what they reveal is significant are they conceal is vital.
Oh, I like that, Otto
in blueprint of Senna for this generation Even Senna was running people off the track 😂
Stats in the wet would be interesting.
My dad is 89 and he watched F1 30 years ago. He says Max Verstappen is the best Red Bull driver ever. Better than David Coulthard 😂. He's also better than Schumacher...Ralf that is. 😂😂😂
As good as his car
We‘re talking about Max, not Lewis.
Max is ruthless.
The trouble with these statisticians especially the American approach to sports, is that you lose the essence, the driver character and spirit of the sport
Well hold on, if you talked to me in person and we had a long firm discussion, of COURSE I factor that in haha.
This is one way to educate the "STUPIDS🇬🇧" in F1 world 👍
Xenophobic much?
Yeah going to hurt some behinds, for sure lol
All stats need context. When Hamilton had his most dominant car (2014-2016), he also had a very quick teammate and mechanical reliability wasn't bullet proof. Let's not forget that Rosberg was able to handily beat Michael Schumacher for 3 seasons on the trot, so Rosberg was no slouch. Senna and Prost also had good teammates . Contrast Verstappen---his teammates are there merely to support him. I think Verstappen needs to prove himself against a high calibre teammate. All the other GOAT contenders have done so.
The common theme i see in a lot of the comments is the teammate effect. Verstappen didn't look so great when he actually had a strong teammate. Sainz was able to outqualify him while Ricciardo outqualified him in 2016 & beat him 2 seasons to 1.
Never compare mercedes Schumi to Ferrari Schumi. He helped mercedes develop their car. He has a almost fatal motorbike accident couple years before, broke his neck and back, and much more horrible injuries. He never fully recovered and that's the only reason Rosberg beat him . Suggest you google about that accident.
Why did Stirling Moss not win a championship? Juan Manual Fangio.
When there is no competitive driver that makes Max a less skilled driver? He beat his rival Lando despite having a slower car. I don't see how George beating Lewis 2 out of 3 seasons makes Lewis better.
Max hasnt been beaten on speed, perhaps on points yes, but that is a comparison for donkeys and fanboys..
Its actually Sainz who was his main competitor not Daniel... Sainz was the closest to Max 0.06 slower than max.
Faster Qualify
Sainz vs verstappen 0.06%
Ricciardo vs verstappen 0.11%
Gasly vs verstappen 0.45%
Albon vs verstappen 0.62%
Perez vs verstappen 0.46%
Faster Race wins
Sainz vs verstappen 54.5%
Ricciardo vs verstappen 60.6%
Gasly vs verstappen 90%
Albon vs verstappen 88.9%
Lewis, he never had competition other then his teammate and Max. Metrics like qualifying head-to-heads and performance relative to teammates provide a more accurate picture of driver skill. Hamilton has had strong teammates (Alonso, Button, Rosberg), but his head-to-head qualifying stats (e.g., against Bottas) are skewed because Bottas was often relegated to a nr2 support role. Against Alonso in 2007, Hamilton’s debut season was one of the few times he was on completely equal footing with his teammate, finishing level on points.
Verstappen has dominated his teammates (Gasly, Albon, Pérez) but also faced strong competition from Daniel Ricciardo, Sainz early in his career. Unlike Hamilton, Verstappen didn’t benefit from clear number-two drivers in his early years, making his results even more impressive. 2023 was definitely his most convincing title. He had a dominant car but its the fashion in which he won it!
Remind you Lewis has almost always had the fastest car with 30-50bhp more when he won..., bit like Max in a 2023 car. Max had that car for less time then LH with his Merc dominant car.
Basically if you put any F1 clown in that Merc they would have won, Bottas was nice example...
Yeah he is decent i guess