I personally think that if this ship was properly armed and armored for a military ship, it would not be a good carrier/ command&control vessel. It would be THE carrier, command and control vessel. This should be a staple of any fleet, kept in the center of the formation as an anchor and able to launch hundreds of fighters and bombers to complement the rest of the line ships & raiders.
Lukerhulks have always been a rather insane civilian to military conversion in lore. When the Clone Wars rolled arround, they started to pack 164 quad anti fighter batteries, *472* anti ship laser cannons, and 48 quad turbo laser batteries. Oh, and the 1.5k Vulture droids. Which could also double as light bombers. Oh, and the 329k battlerdoirds and over 6 thousand tanks. Yes. This is the ACTUAL standard load out in old cannon. In new, Disney cannon? Somehow they have MORE gun. 51 quad turbo laser batteries, *520* assault laser cannons, 185 quad anti starfighter batteries, AND still had the 1500 fighters. And they still have those 6k tanks. Less droids though, only 139k.
It's the Slave 1! Doesn't matter what Disney says. It's a stupid decision to change the name. Just because they want to please some individuals who probably don't even know that Star Wars is full of slavery. It's even in the old trilogy. I hate it when they change things which are already fine and it didn't even offend anyone. It's a stupid decision.
@@DonJuan911 more and more people like them just making me wants to run for Prime Minister in my country with a campaign to block Western foreigners from entering the country because of their woke stupidity.
There’s actually a neat explanation for the exposed reactors. It’s similar to how it took ships blowing up for us to realize exposed aviation fuel tanks and lines on carriers was stupid. Those reactors were one of many small secondary reactors bolted on inside the cargo turned hangar bays to power all those vulture droids. Then when Anakin blew up one it set off a chain reaction along the rings, similar to the carriers that were lost to chain reaction fuel detonations.
And he had to get inside of the hangar bay - not just a little either; way, waaay deep inside - and hit the reactors with his missiles. If you're not Anakin 'Literal Space-Jesus' Skywalker, how likely are you to manage that, let alone without dying in the process?
The Lucrehulk’s such a cool design. Is it the most efficient ship design for literally any role? Probably not. But it’s still such a striking image and I always really liked how the CIS was able to make them a centerpiece of pretty much any operation. You absolutely could design a more effective warship, but for a conversion of a freighter it’s striking that perfect blend of effective enough at its job, making sense in the lore, and being visually distinct. My favorite variation of the Lucrehulk though will always be as a Carrier instead of a battleship, something I’ve seen in a couple games and one offs. As a battleship it’s certainly heavily armed, but it’s got awful firing angles and it’s a massive slow moving target. But if you instead cover the whole thing is point defense weapons and give it very few anti-capital ship weapons you could set it up in the center of a fleet as a massive well defended fleet carrier. It certainly has the cargo capacity and even the battleship variant carried a ton of droids, but a version exclusively designed to be a carrier would bring absolutely overwhelming numbers to any battle. Especially when the Republic is fielding Venators with pretty limited carrying capacity.
@@bthsr7113 Eh, Venator always gets its fan. but Lukerhulks have so much more fighter capacity. It takes roughly 7.5 Venators to output as many fighters as a single Lukerhulk. And sure, the Vulture Droid may not be the best fighter, there is a certain quality to quantity.
@@fanusobscurus One part of the Quality vs Quantity debate that is rarely stressed is that quality rarely becomes important unless the quantity of the units are about on par. Most victories were quality comes out victorious against quantity. An in depth dive into the situation will show that the term "quality" actually means "advanced." Such as The Zulus vs The British instead of Japanese Zero's vs American Wildcat's
@@Eatmydbzballs keep in mind that the us and russia defeated the German's superior tanks due to sheer numbers plus the american tanks and even russians were rugged, often able to be salvaged and repaired. german tanks broke down, couldn't be recovered and salvaged.
@@toomanyaccounts Yes, because no matter how good the tanks the Germans fielded were. The Americans, British, and Russians always fielded more. You seem to need to read my comment again as nowhere did I say that quality was the better factor. Quality only matters when the target force in the area you are attacking is a technological and numerical peer. Such as the major powers of the Second World War. 5 Tiger I tanks will never beat 20 T34's but could possibly beat 10.
@@mikeyjnson Hm, if one could update the ship and get rid of the design flaws that make it so vulnerable for its size, add strong shields and a bit more armour, I guess this would not be the worst thing to use as an FOB. Apart from that as an FOB, I guess I would still prefer the Galactica. I would feel _a lot_ safer in a ship that is designed to take direct hits with nuclear weapons and still being able to fight back.
All valid points, but the biggest problem wasn't CIS ship design, it was the folks commanding said ships. They were, buy and large, _merchants_ not military thinkers. For a 'hostile takeover', they swapped out lawyers & accountants for combat 'droids...great at blowing shit up and killing things, not so great at subtle details. Yeah, the CIS had psychotic android on retainer as a military consultant, but that's not the same thing as a well-trained, and motivated, battle staff. Small wonder a incredibly lucky kid (with a metric butt-tonne of plot armor 😜) could pull one over on a gang of greedy merchants LARP'ing as combat commanders.
that was on purpose. Palpatine set them up to bungle a non violent takeover and start a war. he was the one telling them what to do and when. he knew it was going to fail. that was the POINT.
Ah the Lucrehulk the equivalent of the WW1 early flatdeck carrier. 11:00 Dockmaster the Lucrehulk does have hanger doors but the early cargo based ones were too slow hence Anakin and in the Star Wars Starfighter game Rys Dallows( rip eu) entering the ship. The ship also has compartmentalized hangers which is a neat design feature. Later variations fix a few of the issues you presented.
Another in universe reason for arming the Lucrehulk is that the galactic government was a failed state in all but name and piracy ran rampant. On the subject of the battle of Naboo Anakin only got that lucky shot because the Lucrehulk was still launching it 1500 fighters. The Lucrehulk's primary goal as a trade ship was to bring a large amount of cargo to a certain place through pirate infested shipping lanes and scare off or fuck up any moron that thinks that they are an easy mark. Their use in the clone wars was as heavily armed and armored troop transports during planetary invasions as well as to act as starfighter carriers.
The Lucrehulk seems like it was more inspired by the real world Spanish Galleons. They were heavily armed merchant ships; but, wouldn't actually stand a chance against a real ship of the line.
"You can't just bolt a bunch of guns onto something and leave all the hatches open!" *Jutland Battlecruiser Commanders nervously sweating* uhhhh... yeahhhh... who would do that...
@@zachrich7359 _Is_ that a hot take? It's a travesty that his insane emphasis on rate of fire (at the expense of everything else) didn't even slow down his naval career. Shit admiral, but you have to at least appreciate that he had political chops.
Admiral Franz von Hipper: "Sir, you have to inflict even more casualties, which you totally can thanks to poor magazine design; the British will claim victory no matter what so long as Jellicoe keeps up his evasive action and makes it home. Reducing Beatty's force wasn't enough." Admiral Reinhard Scheer: "But...they crossed our T! We could be the next Russian Navy at Tsushima!" Hipper: "And scored...how many hits, sir, EVEN BEFORE you did the 180 degree turn? Their gunners were just shooting hoping to hit something." Scheer: "It doesn't matter, they crossed our T!" Hipper: ::sigh::
@@SacredCowShipyards Thanks to this video, I am now mentally comparing the Lucrehulk at Naboo to Beatty's battle cruisers and their habit of leaving doors open from the guns all the way to the magazine. Too bad for Hipper he didn't have microscopic plot-armors in his blood...
on the note of the proton torpedo strike, the Lucrehulk had added numerous power generators to run their shitshow, the one Anakin struck caused a chain reaction that of course blew the ship out of orbit. The main reactor cores are in the rear behind the ball.
11:28 You forgot that they also left their auto docking protocols to automatically dock any autopiloted vessel regardless of IFF signature. What sort of halfwit leaves the IFF off during an invasion?!? If that one survived the fight, they'd *definitely* be getting chucked out of the airlock later...
I have an Episode one cross-section book lying around and took a look at it. It points out that the main reactors were not on the flight deck but were one of three *GIANT* spherical devices in front of each primary engine. I think I've heard it somewhere that what the little punk hit were some kind of fuel pumps, fuel storage, or fighter recharge reactors, SOMETHING that goes boom when hit. What really could be checked up to was an impractical design for war, these ships were built as merchant ships first so there were no efforts made to partition critical or volatile parts from one another because no one expected them to originally be shot up by anything less a few fights, let alone have one fly in and dump a torpedo into it from the inside. The whole incident was a chain reaction following the ship's fuel system if the books any indication. Heck if little Annie had shot the main reactor then I doubt he'd have time to escape as the whole thing would have blown up in his face. Still it's a shame we don't get to see any more of these ships, I like to think someone like the Rebels would have made one into a hidden space base or a pirate trading outpost over some outer rim world.
Things can go wrong even if no one is shooting at you. Sometimes freighters move volatile cargo (fuel, for example) and if something goes wrong with that you would want critical components of the ship partitioned off from the cargo area. In fact: You would want multiple seperated cargo spaces in order to keep goods that don't mix well seperated from each other. Having seperated cargo spaces also has the benefit that you can have different storage conditions (as in temperature, pressure), which would allow you to move a larger array of goods on the same trip than one huge cargo area would. So: unless the ship was designed to handle just one, non-volatile type of cargo, having that huge empty bay Anakin flew threw in order to get to a vulnerable part makes no sense in a freighter either. The only explanation that - in my opinion at least - makes any kind of sense is that during the conversion to a warship the trade federation removed partitions in order to facilitate fighter operations. If I remember correctly vulture droids carry very little fuel and need to return to their carrier very frequently. You would want as many refueling stations in your hangar as possible to avoid having to queue the fighters. After all: A fighter waiting for a slot to be refueled is not a fighter that is defending the ship or attacking the enemy.
Well, warships disguised as merchants to ambush unsuspecting enemy was not a bad idea. But in previous era, of wooden ships and iron men, there were marchant ships that were disguised as warships to convince pirates to not even try to attack them, with false gun ports made or painted on the hull. The ring ship is not a bad idea, especially in space. You can rotate it on any axis to give your gun a desired shooting arc. But true, no compartments, no bulkheads to separate damaged ship sections, or even separating different cargo types from each other, like two perfectly stable chemical compounds stored next to each other. Compounds that when mixed together have a very violent, or just simply explosive, reaction... Not a very good design of a ship that can loose artificial gravity at any moment due to various reasons. And even worse crime of exposing very important systems to loose cargo, like an escaped pet Rankorn that someone rich would like to transport but it get loose and demolished half of a cargo bay and then smashed into the reactor and accidentally blow himself and the ship... Yeah. Very tragic.
Simultaneously with merchant ships disguising themselves as warships they also had warships disguised as merchant ships with panels over the cannons to lure pirates in. That's partly because it was against pirates, but given how often pirates got support by rival states in those days there wasn't much distinction. The "Cruiser Rules" were really a very short period in between that and submarine warfare.
I think the important thing is to remember it was pre-clone wars an auxiliary warship met to fight off pirates and when the clone wars begun it was essentially just a refit. While there are definitely methods that could have been taken during the refit, such as more internal bulkheads, it’s important t to remember it’s still a freighter.
I gotta agree that the warship Lukerhulk is a terrible idea. That doesn’t change the fact that I think that this is an excellent trading ship. Droid security, droid crew, and many doors and a cargo hold that is empty to vacuum means that it can be more difficult for your stuffs to be taken. The armament makes sense considering that pirates abound in the SW universe, but it could definitely be better organized.
the armament was illegal and what made the war start in the first place. the TF wanted to combat the pirates as they worked in the outer rim but the GR said 'no we say all merchants have no guns' so the TF decided to start the CIS to stand up to the pirates and be recognized by the GR as an independent equal polity.
@@themajormagers The GR did give the TF permission equip thier ships with a light armament to combat pirates with. It was no where near enough though. Although that was more the straw that broke the camels back for the TF. The bigger problem (as with most revolutions) was the GR trying to increase taxes and government control in the Outer Rim, where they previously had let the corporations run wild to encourage development in the OR.
Talk about Cruiser Rules, in WW2 the Kriegsmarine, the naval arm of the moustache man, actually made an attempt to maintain those rules, they would regularly halt unescorted merchant ships and either destroy their load or only sink the ship after the crew had evacuated, in contrast to the yanks who outright gunned down almost every single survivor of Japanese ships (civilian or military) in the pacific, considering Japanese fanaticism a somewhat understandable action. That was until the Laconia incident, after having sunk the eponymous british troop ship, submarine U-156 collected all the survivors and were towing them in their life rafts to the nearest civilian Vichi french vessel for handover, during which they raised red cross banners and were broadcasting their intentions on allied frequencies. Then a wild USAAF B-24 appeared and started shooting/bombing them, forcing U-156 to abbandon the survivors, what followed was vertiable cluster fuck that resulted in the deaths of hundreads of survivors, as other Kriegsmarine submarines tried to launch rescue operations and were subsequently gunned down by allied forces despite going under no fire rules. After that, Dönitz basically said "Fuck it, they want total fuckin war? We will give them total fuckin war!" and all gentlemen rules were thrown overboard. At the Nürnberg trials, the entire incident turned into a shitshow when THE Admiral Chester fuckin Nimitz spoke out IN DEFENSE of the Kriegsmarine, severly embarrassing the entire prosecution.
Another issue with trying the Kriegsmarine admirals for unrestricted submarine warfare was that allied submarines used USW as well. Dönitz wasn't entirely clean, slave labor was used for construction of KM ships etc, but yeah on the USW front the prosecution was being pretty hypocritical.
@@gokbay3057 Indeed, hence why Nimitz spoke out in favor of Dönitz and Reader. I think it was somewhere along the lines of "If you want to lock those two up for USW, then you might as well lock me up too!" I swear, that man was an absolute chad.
Nimitz's field of fucks was as barren as the flight deck of every single carrier of the class that was named after him. Although I will note that, personally, I consider cruiser rules to have expired in WWI, with vengeance. That people tried to keep them going in WW2, The Electric Boogaloo is a credit to their character, buuuuuutttt.....
@@SacredCowShipyards buuuuuutttt a couple good deeds dont absolve the general fuckery that went on with the Nazis. For me personally, studying WW2 was something of an eye opener for realizing that not every "bad guy" is evil and not every "good guy" is rightious. As a emo blueberry once said "The line between light and dark is oh so very thin." Then I shot him in the face. ^^ Also, the reference to the USS Nimitz, is that because she never had enough planes or they simply never packed her deck full of them? ^^
There's a scene from Tanya The Saga of Evil anime where Tanya uses a loudspeaker to warn people they're going to die, the cruiser rules reminds me of it :3
Funnily enough, the most effective anti-sub tool in the Royal Navy's arsenal was... Fishing Hooks. I kid you not, the Destroyers literally went fishing for subs.
The worst thing is that during WW1 and 2, stuff like this more or less happened. Nations would basically bolt a crap ton of guns onto cruise liner, call them Auxiliary Cruisers and send them out to attack the merchant shipping on their enemies. There was at least one instance where two of these converted liners fought one another in a stand-up battle and it was absolute carnage on both sides, since they were blazing away at one another at close range owing to the non-existent range-finding and fire control on them and having literally no armour. Consequently, a single shell hit would blow out whole compartments and start massive fires
i think it was said in lore that it wasnt the main reactor that was blown up in the first film, but instead it was all the fuel cells used for all the fighers and transports, they were just positioned right at the back of the hanger next to the main ractor, still stupid. its a bit like what happened to the Taihō which was taken out by a single torpedo that hit the aviation fuel tanks which started a chain reaction
_Taiho_ had huge problems with its attempts at damage control, too. As memory serves, they'd nearly gotten the fire under control... and then opened hatches to clear the air... which fed oxygen to the smouldering fires. They weren't smouldering anymore after that.
One thing to note the hulks in episode 1 where shoddily modified for the blockade they had just bolted on as many guns as they could and when they realized they didn't have enough power said "fuck it throw a bunch of spare reactors into the cargo hold" the clone wars models actually had their additional reactors armored up and safe(ish)
@Sacred Cow Shipyards I honestly imagine the reactors in hangars were an effect of something that went like this: "sir, the added turbolasers draw too much power to work when core ship is on planet, what should we do?" "you see that shipping of battleship cores? Just plug a few of them in the back of hangar, it should be enough..."
I would argue that the "Gentleman's Rules of War", was a recently new idea in our history. For most of history it was "kill everyone and sell the survivors into slavery".
It's a surprisingly competent battleship, a carrier to rival a super star destroyer, a military transport big enough to facilitate planetary invasions, a bulk freighter capable of transporting cargo at the galactic scale, and it has FIFTY CONFERENCE ROOMS. [Oh, and its central structure can detach to perform atmospheric landings as a still massive dropship.] I think this ship's biggest problem is that there wasn't enough of them.
Sounds like you need to find those people and do things to them that would get me in trouble with the "authorities" here if I were to describe them. For the comparison, that is. Thanks for the subscription, just to be clear.
A friend of mine was once asked to install a fully functional toilet 7 feet off the ground.... for the sake of too much money and art. That should answer some of the Star Wars design conundrums.
The military variant Lucrehulk; basically a defense platform, regardless of if it’s a battleship or carrier sub-variants. It just kinda parks in a place and spews out lasers and fighters. It’s got the sheer mass, shields, and armor belt to just not care. I love the murder donut to bits.
I love the Lucrehulk specifically because it actually does does look like a perfectly competent effort at a large freight carrying vessel by Star Wars standards. And while that doesn't translate to a good warship, it does translate to a great transport for troops and equipment.
Everyone knows if you want a merchant company to make a decent battleship you don't tell them to "build a battleship", you warn them about pirates coming to rob them. You'll get a lean, purpose built cruiser with enough guns & armor to get the job done, w/o all the extra BS by the end of the week. I've *always* hated the TF equipment. You can TELL it was designed by someone making a consumer product w no idea of what's actually needed. Which really shows how much though Lucasfilm actually put into their work back then, as the garbage the TF uses is *exactly* the kind of garbage organizations like that come up with (Bradly Fighting Vehicle, anyone?)
@@georgethompson1460 the Bradly is a piece of garbage that can barely hold a squad, couldn't resist small arms fire without after factory modifications, can't out run or out shoot other apc's and gasses it's occupants before they can bail when it catches fire.
@@nicholashodges201 it's not supposed to be an APC. That Era of warfare is done with. The Bradley was our answer the BMP of the Soviets and it was well done with a heavy auto cannon, TOW missiles, and decent enough armor to stop small arms fire. It's not supposed to stop anti tank weapons (and since when did tanks as a rule stop anti tank weapons? It's literally in the name of the weapon) The dude who wrote the Bradley wars was nothing more than a desk warrior who never say combat. That was his first primary failing
Typically I find the ones shrieking about "slippery slope fallacy" to be the ones talking out of their @$$. Or flat out lying in the hopes that nobody notices the slide. The worst of it is that not only do they exist, they're *old*. Censorship, authoritarian power grabs etc, keeps happening and we keep having the same damn arguments about them
@@nicholashodges201 Well, it's not like disney has fallen so far as to use slave labor themselves is it? ...Oh, wait, local labor was used to build sets in Xinjiang... And then they thank a chinese propaganda bureau in the credits... Hmm...
Boba's ship goes from Slave1 to Firespray at the same rate Disney goes from entertaining to insulting. To save my psyche I do a Jedi hand wave and say "this is not the Star Wars you are looking for, carry on".
Oh that disney changing name thingy is actually disheartening ... they truly dont see anything as holy in their purchased ip's. I might also add that the empire went and saw the lucrehulk and went we need this but even bigger and bamn the secutor class became a thing which eventually led to the development of the Super-class star destroyers which are essentially moving space fortresses.
Let’s be honest here, Disney changing a ship’s name, no matter how dumb, is the least of its stupid decisions when it’s in the business of neutering all its male Star Wars characters. Boba went from a cold, calculating, merciless Hunter to…a kindly old man cosplaying as a Mandolorian. Rest In peace compelling anti-heroes, we hardly knew ye.
Old Boba: Had to be warned not to disintegrate targets. New Boba: Gets concerned that, "Keep an eye out," might offend someone with a voluntarily-augmented cybernetic eye. Something was, indeed, lost.
@@SacredCowShipyards I like to have the idea he's both. On one had Boba will brutally murder a crime lord and all of their guards for five credits, but on the other he makes sure to use someone's right pronouns. A badass but not a jerk.
@@HelghastStalker I don't remember Boba ever having that characterization, but we could have been reading different stuff since Legends is so vast and has a lot of contradictory stuff. Though I have to say I feel like the "new" Boba Fett is far more Mandalorian than the one you are describing.
@@HelghastStalker I never said either continuity is better than the other. And Legends did contradict itself, that's going to happen when you have so much material set in the same universe written by so many people.
Don't forget that three clones in stolen starfighters were able to do the same thing again years later, even when the TF installed internal shield systems.
To be fair, the exposed reactors in episode I was due to a merchant ship being retrofited into a battleship. They corrected the issue by the clone wars if im not mistaken, and fitted even more guns and stronger shilds. The lucrehulk by the time of the clone wars was a monster of a battleship.
Huh, I never realized those ball ships on geonosis were lucrehulk cores... Which means the trade federation lost several battleships to ground fire. Sure would have been nasty if those balls had naval grade shield generators and cannons pouring fire onto the ground troops.
They actually DID add shield generators and added in the "if under fire, shoot back" doctrine on the ones you see in Episode 3. There are three Trade Federation/Confederacy of Independent Systems generations and one Rebel Alliance generation of Lucrehulks.
@@barrybend7189 Yeah, but there's no way they had the armor or sheilds to protect them from similar weapons. Return fire from battleship-grade weapons would have massacred them. Heck, even point defense weapons might have gotten the job done, much like a machine gun on a tank can take out a guy with an rpg.
Imagine building a cargo battleship, only to get sent to the forever box because the planet had unsecured fighters due to a few special people with glowsticks and a kid.
TBF, I don't think the cores were meant to be separated from the rest of the ship in combat situations. I heard what happened was after the battle of Naboo the Senate forced the Trade Federation to disarm, which meant ditching the cores of their Lucrehulks to severely limit their ability to act as warships. Those cores on Geonosis were what the Trade Federation squirreled away in case they wanted to make their Lucrehulks into warships again.
As I recall, the cores could detach for maintenance from day one and the idea of using them as shuttles or dropships was cooked up between Naboo and Geonosis by the Trade Federation. Of course, the CIS as a whole thought this was idiotic and basically said "shield the darn things if you're going to use them that way" and the third and final generation Lucrehulk variant--which notably did not come in a droid control ship variation, indicating at least to me they were moving away from that concept--actually did have a separately-shielded core ship (which, along with the second version of the ship in use by the CIS during the Clone Wars, also got used by the Rebellion, though the Rebels rather wisely bolted the core ships to the docking rings on the earlier models that didn't have their own shield generators). Surprisingly, the Lucrehulk's development is really well-covered between the prequel trilogy and The Clone Wars TV series; it didn't really need any retcons to tell us there were five Trade Federation or CIS subclasses (TF Battleship, Droid Control Ship Gen 1, TF Battleship Gen 2, Droid Control Ship Gen 2, TF Battleship Gen 3), plus one subclass the Rebellion had upgraded that was basically the TF Battleship Gen 2 with the non-detachable core ship (fun fact: they got this from one of the pre-Mouse EU Corporate Sector Authority variants, the other being the less common, unaltered TF Battleship Gen 3, which we've also seen the Rebels use canonically of late).
@@SacredCowShipyards I doubt it, Dockmaster. The details within the explanations for the Lucrehulk’s development got kinda changed when the Bloodthirsty Mouse took over. If I’m using old Legends continuity, please, feel free to fix gaffes I made.
I love how this channel manages to mix scathing critique, satire, plain comedy and historical lessons :-) I had never heard of the Cruiser Rules prior to this but now I will be doing some reading on them, how I had missed them to begin with might have been my preference for land combat rather than Naval despite having plenty of Sailors in the family... That or just plain old laziness, yeah that might be it.
3:25 I mean, some submarine captains did abide by cruiser protocols in the early stages of WW2, though it generally stopped once escorted convoys became the norm. I think my dad has - somewhere around -a copy of the letter received by the Red Cross from the captain of the U-boat that sank his uncle's merchant ship. It essentially identifies the time and approximate location of the encounter, and was accompanied by 2 photographs, 1 of the ship with it's lifeboats deployed, and one which has both of the lifeboats in fame, and was good enough that several crew members were positively identified from it.
My favourite ship transformation would the Kuun-Lan from Homeworld: Cataclym game. It started out as mining vessel but throughout the campaign it became a powerful battleship armed with a Yamato superweapon and carried Super Acolyte fighters. It also built a whole fleet of combat ships that it lead to hunt down a galactic threat.
Honestly that thing could be a fantastic mine layer or missile ship. Come to a planet under the guise of merchanting then block out the sun with mines.
The Lucrehulk seems in true corporate fashion to be an attempt to make or rather convert a ship to fulfill pretty much every role you need in warfare, and unfortunately it becomes mediocre at any of those roles. Though it did one thing I haven't seen much of in fiction that intrigues me, it served at least in the Naboo Conflict as a stealth troop carrier. It's one thing to have a bunch of well armed truckers blockading your town, when suddenly a bunch of armed troops you didn't know existed start pouring out of said trucks, that would be a Hell of a surprise. Granted you'd only get away with that trick once, but still a fascinating idea to secret an army right into the middle of the enemy on a regular old cargo ship. Only other time I've read someone doing that in fiction was Tom Clancy's "Red Storm Rising" but I've seen such tactics debated endlessly about a possible PRC invasion of Taiwan.
small correction about the Trade Fed. they were being picked off by pirates / raiders and wanted to arm their ships to combat the merchant raiders. the galactic republic said no we will go to war if you do that. they said well shit and started to secretly arm up a fleet anyways and built connections or strong armed the surrounding small polities into joining for the purpose of being recognized as an independent and equal group that the galactic republic could work with. This would have worked as they had a massive army and fleet that could make them equals to the GR but the sith who were working in the background to make the whole situation in the first place had clone troopers ready to even the playing field so both sides would die and leave the GR ready for takeover. TLDR: TF was going to have Q ships or just flat out warships but were told no.
Wasn't expecting a Star Wars ship video to start with a mini-lecture on honourable naval warfare and where it went wrong, but hey, I learned some new things today, so I'm happy
For anakin's lucky shot it wasn't that he hit the reactor. What he hit was one of the many many extra power stations added into the refit. They needed those new reactors to power all the extra shit they added and to power all the fighters they added. Blowing up that first one just caused a chain reaction that spread.
one example of a Q ship in scifi that I like is in the Honor Harrington series they have covers for the weapons ports that don't need to be dropped they can just fire through them and then replace them after the fight
The Lucrehulk is a solid design used for the wrong application. Missile/torpedo platform (at long range), combined arms troop carrier, and dedicated carrier? Absolutely! As a battleship, especially in its initial militarized configuration as seen in the Battle of Naboo? Abysmal. With some work, it can be a great capital/support ship.
The reason its used as a battle carrier early on is because, as a freighter, it's already a good carrier/troop ship thanks to the size of its hold and the Trafe Federation also wanted a battleship for blockades and piracy suppression. As is often the case, instead of designing a dedicated battleship to field alongside the Lucrehulk they just strapped a bunch of guns on the Lucrehulks. This decision makes a lot of sense for a corporation that needs to keep the bottom line in mind. And when the clone wars started the CIS had fat less resources than the republic to work with so instead of redesigning the Lucrehulk they must kept upgrading what they already had to cut costs.
@@SacredCowShipyards I know, right? And concussion missiles and the like. That would slay as fire support! A high endurance and output missile platform still boasting decent defenses including the 1500 vulture droids as a defensive screen. Since the roof based racks are pretty efficient space use and out of the way, you could probably work around or move them pretty easily.
Slave 1 always kinda looked like some sort of orbital or detail sander to me. In the SF story I'm writing, the hero ship might qualify as a Q-ship. It's classified as a type of cutter, but they changed the forward observation dome and escape port so that it becomes an emission port for a big-honking space gun. And the cargo ports can probably be used for launching missiles.
One thing that always confused me about the Lucrehulk was its use as a carrier. Of all the designs for a carrier, having the hangar openings on the far ends of the split ring, not just near each other but practically _facing_ each other, seems like a hilariously bad design. Any ship being launched or recovered would need to execute an almost ninety-degree turn immediately outside of the hangar doors. The required maneuvering would get even more squirrelly if the Lucrehulk is itself maneuvering at the time, since the doors are so far away from the ship's axes of rotation that even small changes in the ship's orientation would sweep the hangar openings around wildly. Even under calm circumstances when the Lucrehulk itself is staying absolutely stock-still during launch or recovery operations, any problems among the smaller ships would cause instant disaster: if a ship trying to launch screwed up its turn or had a malfunction, its momentum would carry it directly into the traffic pattern of the other door, causing a cascade of ships crashing into each other - not to mention a hailstorm of debris and fuels - right in the middle of the most vulnerable, high-traffic area of the ship. Still, it does have an impressive throw weight of fire, it can carry a huge number of troops and fighters (even if launching them is a hot mess waiting to happen), and the Lucrehulk design is one of the vanishingly few starships in science fiction whose main bridge is _NOT_ in a particularly exposed position. The command ball may not have its own shields when separated, but it has plenty when docked with its ring, and it and the bridge it contains are as buried within that hull as it is possible to be.
I suppose you could always use some kind of catapult to punt the launching ships out sideways and then let them shoot forward under their own thrust, but Star Wars doesn't seem to have that tech/functionality.
A good example is the Wolf from ww1 the most successful of the German „Kaperschiffe“ translated it means soemthing like privateer ships or raider ships
I would suggest that the Lucrehulk isn't truly a battleship or carrier. It's better classified as an amphibious warfare ship, equivalent to a modern day LHD or LHA. A modified carrier focused on landing troops and supporting those troops. And in that role, it makes some sense. The guns are where they are because that's where they could fit them during the refit. If this vessel were escorted by a proper battlegroup, it would be a very, very effective vessel.
I'm pretty sure the idea that warfare has only become "unrestricted" recently is a common misconception about history. There was a brief time in the 18th and 19th centuries in Europe when commanders might have given lip service to the idea of "polite" warfare, but even in that narrow geographic and chronological time frame, it often went by the wayside pretty quickly. Medieval European wars tended to burn fields and murder fairly indiscriminately. At pretty much every point in time and place, if your opponent was of a different religion, all bets were off. There is some evidence to suggest that we homo sapiens massacred every other species of proto-human off the face of the planet! I think it's been a pretty narrow stretch of human history wherein leaders came up with noble-sounding justifications for war that included supposed rules of conduct.
Even the Romans had supposed rules of conduct and required at least token justification. It's a lot messier and more complicated than your hyper-simplified description
All of that is highly dependent on time, place & who the combatants were. "Knightly battle" was every bit as choreographed as the ritual wars on the Pacific Islands, with incredibly small numbers of serious casualties on either side. Peasant battles, wars of conquest and death matches like Jerusalem or Carthage are completely different matters. But for most of human history we've generally *tried* to keep the mayhem to a reasonable minimum. Every culture on earth has rules for war, and they remain fairly consistent across time & space. Those rules also tend to go out the window as any particular war drags on, or if the opposing forces are different enough from each other to be considered "alien". The big difference starting in the 19th century is that war became a "whole society" event, and began to directly effect those far removed (both physically & socially) from the war itself. Wars started getting won or lost in factories & corn fields, often before the first bullet got fired. This led to directly targeting formerly sacrosanct targets such as civilian populations, which in turn has led to more personal investment in harming the enemy, which then leads to directly targeting the civilians and so on. And it's a direct result of the weapons we now use & the infrastructure required to make them...
@@jonathancrosby1583, I mean, literally claimed that there wasn't even a pretense of rules for warfare until the 18th and 19th centuries. That's just plain false, as opposed to simply lacking detail.
The biggest problem with the lucrehulk is the star wars mentality of treating capital ships like they're their own little fleet... Without giving then their own little fleet. Take the lucrehulk and treat it the way the US treats air craft carriers. Surround it with cruisers and destroyers if comparable size to defend it. And I mean actual destroyers, fast little ships dedicated to destroying small craft. But that would require sound military thinking in Star wars.
you see it only by Fans and expanded universe material. the empire had lancer frigates and funny enough x wing pilots feared these things more than the big daddy palpatine machines.
@@laisphinto6372 TBF as a pilot I'd be more scared of a purpose built doom brick with like 20-ish anti fighter guns than a Death ball sporting Anti Cap ships guns.
imagine, half the guns, plough the entirety of the now spared powergrid into overlapping shields, bnolt a few bits of sheetmetal across the hanger doors after the droids are out (hell they are droids, strap them to the outside and use all that extra space for some localised generators and repaor/re-arm bays. now THAT would be a terrifying ship. it was clearly wasted as a hauler considering how many guns they managed to retrofit onto the damned thing.
As far as i understood it, the reactors were not part of the original ship and installed later to power the sheer mass of droids the Lucrehulk carried as part of the "turning into a Battleship". So they would not have been there in a proper Lucrehulk in the first place.
honestly, the damn thing is probably one of the best carriers in all of Star Wars, if properly utilized, it'd be pretty damn near a Super Carrier equivalent. its basically all hangar, a very significant portion of its armament is AA, with some anti ship weapons, fighters can exit and return through multiple vectors without compromising the structure of the ship (you know if they remember to close the doors to critical areas) and it has some pretty beefy armor/shields. Give it some proper escorts (like the various Separatist frigates and such) and most of its flaws become irrelevant. Because then you'd have a fighter screen so thick that angle of attack is non viable, and the escorts would pose enough of a threat, any enemy would have to focus on them first with their capital ships giving them opportunity to jump to hyperspace.
The Lukrehulk makes me think of something you’d use as a mobile staging area or orbital control tower or planetary invasion coordination craft. Plenty of space for docking smaller craft, space superiority fighters, or landing vehicles. It would make a fantastic carrier if they could streamline fighter launching, maybe by using those hatches that then close. The heavy weapons would deter any occupied planet from causing problems, and could put down actual problems. Definitely not a warship, but could do a lot of things effectively.
the lucerhulk is basically an armored cruiser of the late 1800s in that by the time its used for war its neither armored or a cruiser by the technology of time but its all they got so they gotta use it. Part of their weakness is by design, if the trade federation won outright, then there wouldn't have been an escalated conflict leading to the galactic empire.
@@SacredCowShipyards Funnily enough, something similar happened at Jutland among the British Battlecruisers (partially due to their commanders focusing on the Battle part of their name over the Cruiser part, partially due to the Crews taking every step to increase their fire rate, even the ones they shouldn't) provoking a similar remark from then Vice-Admiral David Beatty. After Action analysis of why that happened resulted in the British going overboard in preventing such a thing happening in future Battleships, with a rather complicated system of doors and locks to prevent sympathetic explosions propagating through the ammunition and propellant. An interesting reference to our first-ish World War, while the RotJ had one to the Dambusters from the generally called Second World War in the trench run scene.
As with the Venator, if they had just /stuck/ with the carrier aspect, this thing wouldn't have been horrible. And, given its cargo capacity, it could put A LOT of birds in the air. Buuuuuutttt.....
When talking about Star Wars ship designs, you have to factor in the detail that space is essentially two-dimensional in that universe. That's why they never go up and over a blockade or attack from above or below. Everything is on a single plane.
A shame the old EU continuity is no longer official. I loved it when Grand Admiral Thrawn backflipped his star destroyer over a New Republic commander whom he realized was thinking in 2D in Heir to the Empire.
Well in my defense it is standard for toys to change names for easy purchase. For example, Luke's ship red five is called Luke's ship in the store. To make easy to find. But the ship in canon is red five. With that in mind when I heard about slave one I immediately jumped to the believe it would be the same.
In defense of the original weaponization of the Lucrehulk, it was not meant to be a Q-ship. The Republic was not providing adequate protection against pirates in the free-trade zone where the Lucrehulk operated, so the Trade Federation got Senate permission to bolt guns onto the hull and pack their hangers with battle droids and droid starfighters. After Naboo, though, that permission was stripped away, so the iterations between then and the Clone Wars probably were meant to follow Q-ship logic.
The firespray has always been the class of his ship. It's been called that for years now. Though, I wouldn't put it past them to only refer to his ship from here on out as firespray.
@@SacredCowShipyards I feel like there was something important here... Fish... flesh... Flash? Hatch? Gate? Door? Something about fire... And flammable explosive powder... And this strange armored box filled with the stuff. But I can't quite put my dexterous manipulator extremity on it...
Access to your engine/reactors via the cargo decks does make some sense, if you are designing with overhaul and replacement in mind. That said, you would still put up some sort of barrier to protect it from "shit happening" on your flight deck/cargo hold. Because shit does happen.
When I watched the film and heard about the trade federation. It made me immediately think of the east India company. A merchant marine owned by the government, who quickly outgrew the ability of the government to protect and assist. So they get the letter to permit them to defend themselves.... Then end up going too far and deciding they are a military of their own. And screwing up international relations because of their actual power. And I did wonder why precisely when under attack not a single storage compartment was kept closed during at attack. At least in Pearl harbor they had the excuse to they did not know hostiles were within range. But they KNEW that Naboo was under occupation and that angry locals might show up any time. So I would have expected a battle stations to be called as soon as reports or conflict broke out on the ground, just in case it was a distraction from a real threat.
I need to say something about the beginning comments about how humans have "recently" changed how they fought wars. Yes, there were more formal rules about wars, but we broke them all the time. It is not that we have become more brutal in our ending of lives, it is just that we have been allowing our creativity in how to brutally kill each other has been allowed to flourish as of late.
Ship master, i believe that while yes the lukerhulk was a good warship, it was also an even more amazing troop transport.
I view it as 16th century merchant craft out of cargo nessessity its built strong enough to be of some military use
I personally think that if this ship was properly armed and armored for a military ship, it would not be a good carrier/ command&control vessel. It would be THE carrier, command and control vessel. This should be a staple of any fleet, kept in the center of the formation as an anchor and able to launch hundreds of fighters and bombers to complement the rest of the line ships & raiders.
@@sithisarcanis fair the design has potential but as is no its good enough only because of centuries of military stagnation
Lukerhulks have always been a rather insane civilian to military conversion in lore. When the Clone Wars rolled arround, they started to pack 164 quad anti fighter batteries, *472* anti ship laser cannons, and 48 quad turbo laser batteries. Oh, and the 1.5k Vulture droids. Which could also double as light bombers. Oh, and the 329k battlerdoirds and over 6 thousand tanks. Yes. This is the ACTUAL standard load out in old cannon. In new, Disney cannon? Somehow they have MORE gun. 51 quad turbo laser batteries, *520* assault laser cannons, 185 quad anti starfighter batteries, AND still had the 1500 fighters. And they still have those 6k tanks. Less droids though, only 139k.
I classify it as a carrier not as a Battleship.
Calling a ship "firespray" sounds like a bladder infection to me.
It's the Slave 1! Doesn't matter what Disney says. It's a stupid decision to change the name. Just because they want to please some individuals who probably don't even know that Star Wars is full of slavery. It's even in the old trilogy. I hate it when they change things which are already fine and it didn't even offend anyone. It's a stupid decision.
@@DonJuan911 more and more people like them just making me wants to run for Prime Minister in my country with a campaign to block Western foreigners from entering the country because of their woke stupidity.
If you try to change the name of a tree to "cabbage" but everyone calls it tree... its still called tree
I hear they want to change the Millennium Falcon to the Gen Z Falcon, to pander to the younger fans.
Firespray is not a terrible name. But the flying shoe is not just 'the firespray'. Otherwise, I demand the falcon to be renamed 'the YT-Freighter'.
There’s actually a neat explanation for the exposed reactors. It’s similar to how it took ships blowing up for us to realize exposed aviation fuel tanks and lines on carriers was stupid. Those reactors were one of many small secondary reactors bolted on inside the cargo turned hangar bays to power all those vulture droids. Then when Anakin blew up one it set off a chain reaction along the rings, similar to the carriers that were lost to chain reaction fuel detonations.
interesting take on that. kind of what you would expect from a bunch of merchants,
And he had to get inside of the hangar bay - not just a little either; way, waaay deep inside - and hit the reactors with his missiles. If you're not Anakin 'Literal Space-Jesus' Skywalker, how likely are you to manage that, let alone without dying in the process?
@@Siathuan Pretty unlikely, especially as the Trade Federation learned how to be a better invasion force.
And they actually learned from that and put a shield in front of the reactors. Good job tf
@@Siathuan you gotta wonder where those internal weapons that killed the diplomatic cruiser were in that sequence though
The Lucrehulk’s such a cool design. Is it the most efficient ship design for literally any role? Probably not. But it’s still such a striking image and I always really liked how the CIS was able to make them a centerpiece of pretty much any operation. You absolutely could design a more effective warship, but for a conversion of a freighter it’s striking that perfect blend of effective enough at its job, making sense in the lore, and being visually distinct.
My favorite variation of the Lucrehulk though will always be as a Carrier instead of a battleship, something I’ve seen in a couple games and one offs. As a battleship it’s certainly heavily armed, but it’s got awful firing angles and it’s a massive slow moving target. But if you instead cover the whole thing is point defense weapons and give it very few anti-capital ship weapons you could set it up in the center of a fleet as a massive well defended fleet carrier. It certainly has the cargo capacity and even the battleship variant carried a ton of droids, but a version exclusively designed to be a carrier would bring absolutely overwhelming numbers to any battle. Especially when the Republic is fielding Venators with pretty limited carrying capacity.
I'd argue that the Venator has a solid strike craft capacity. The Lucrehulk is just crazy stuffed full of troops and fighters.
@@bthsr7113 Eh, Venator always gets its fan. but Lukerhulks have so much more fighter capacity. It takes roughly 7.5 Venators to output as many fighters as a single Lukerhulk. And sure, the Vulture Droid may not be the best fighter, there is a certain quality to quantity.
@@fanusobscurus One part of the Quality vs Quantity debate that is rarely stressed is that quality rarely becomes important unless the quantity of the units are about on par.
Most victories were quality comes out victorious against quantity. An in depth dive into the situation will show that the term "quality" actually means "advanced." Such as The Zulus vs The British instead of Japanese Zero's vs American Wildcat's
@@Eatmydbzballs keep in mind that the us and russia defeated the German's superior tanks due to sheer numbers plus the american tanks and even russians were rugged, often able to be salvaged and repaired. german tanks broke down, couldn't be recovered and salvaged.
@@toomanyaccounts Yes, because no matter how good the tanks the Germans fielded were. The Americans, British, and Russians always fielded more.
You seem to need to read my comment again as nowhere did I say that quality was the better factor.
Quality only matters when the target force in the area you are attacking is a technological and numerical peer. Such as the major powers of the Second World War.
5 Tiger I tanks will never beat 20 T34's but could possibly beat 10.
Is it just me or has the Lucrehulk always looked more like a semi-mobile space station/space dock instead of an actual ship?
anything mobile, is no longer a space station...so....
@@aethertech then maybe mobile FOB? Lol
@@mikeyjnson Hm, if one could update the ship and get rid of the design flaws that make it so vulnerable for its size, add strong shields and a bit more armour, I guess this would not be the worst thing to use as an FOB. Apart from that as an FOB, I guess I would still prefer the Galactica. I would feel _a lot_ safer in a ship that is designed to take direct hits with nuclear weapons and still being able to fight back.
If it has engines it's a ship. No engines it's a station... as in Stationary
@@aethertech **Babylon 4 enters the chat**
All valid points, but the biggest problem wasn't CIS ship design, it was the folks commanding said ships. They were, buy and large, _merchants_ not military thinkers. For a 'hostile takeover', they swapped out lawyers & accountants for combat 'droids...great at blowing shit up and killing things, not so great at subtle details. Yeah, the CIS had psychotic android on retainer as a military consultant, but that's not the same thing as a well-trained, and motivated, battle staff.
Small wonder a incredibly lucky kid (with a metric butt-tonne of plot armor 😜) could pull one over on a gang of greedy merchants LARP'ing as combat commanders.
that was on purpose. Palpatine set them up to bungle a non violent takeover and start a war. he was the one telling them what to do and when. he knew it was going to fail. that was the POINT.
Ah the Lucrehulk the equivalent of the WW1 early flatdeck carrier. 11:00 Dockmaster the Lucrehulk does have hanger doors but the early cargo based ones were too slow hence Anakin and in the Star Wars Starfighter game Rys Dallows( rip eu) entering the ship. The ship also has compartmentalized hangers which is a neat design feature. Later variations fix a few of the issues you presented.
ww1? did you mean ww2?
@@sovietdominion nope ww1 as the earliest flatop carrier prototypes were modified coal haulers.
And those were the hanger tractors not even connected to the powerplant
Another in universe reason for arming the Lucrehulk is that the galactic government was a failed state in all but name and piracy ran rampant. On the subject of the battle of Naboo Anakin only got that lucky shot because the Lucrehulk was still launching it 1500 fighters. The Lucrehulk's primary goal as a trade ship was to bring a large amount of cargo to a certain place through pirate infested shipping lanes and scare off or fuck up any moron that thinks that they are an easy mark. Their use in the clone wars was as heavily armed and armored troop transports during planetary invasions as well as to act as starfighter carriers.
The Lucrehulk seems like it was more inspired by the real world Spanish Galleons. They were heavily armed merchant ships; but, wouldn't actually stand a chance against a real ship of the line.
Ah, the LucreHulk
The pride of the British East India Company
"It's just... business."
In that case we need to blow up more of them.
"You can't just bolt a bunch of guns onto something and leave all the hatches open!" *Jutland Battlecruiser Commanders nervously sweating* uhhhh... yeahhhh... who would do that...
Xd
This was legitimately super hilarious.
Hot take, Beatty was entirely responsible for the losses under his command at Jutland and should have been court martialed for his inept command.
@@zachrich7359 _Is_ that a hot take? It's a travesty that his insane emphasis on rate of fire (at the expense of everything else) didn't even slow down his naval career. Shit admiral, but you have to at least appreciate that he had political chops.
Admiral Franz von Hipper: "Sir, you have to inflict even more casualties, which you totally can thanks to poor magazine design; the British will claim victory no matter what so long as Jellicoe keeps up his evasive action and makes it home. Reducing Beatty's force wasn't enough." Admiral Reinhard Scheer: "But...they crossed our T! We could be the next Russian Navy at Tsushima!" Hipper: "And scored...how many hits, sir, EVEN BEFORE you did the 180 degree turn? Their gunners were just shooting hoping to hit something." Scheer: "It doesn't matter, they crossed our T!" Hipper: ::sigh::
"There seems to be something wrong with our bloody Lucrehulks today."
- Admiral Beatty, in orbit of Naboo, probably
"Last recorded words of"
@@SacredCowShipyards Thanks to this video, I am now mentally comparing the Lucrehulk at Naboo to Beatty's battle cruisers and their habit of leaving doors open from the guns all the way to the magazine. Too bad for Hipper he didn't have microscopic plot-armors in his blood...
on the note of the proton torpedo strike, the Lucrehulk had added numerous power generators to run their shitshow, the one Anakin struck caused a chain reaction that of course blew the ship out of orbit. The main reactor cores are in the rear behind the ball.
11:28 You forgot that they also left their auto docking protocols to automatically dock any autopiloted vessel regardless of IFF signature.
What sort of halfwit leaves the IFF off during an invasion?!?
If that one survived the fight, they'd *definitely* be getting chucked out of the airlock later...
"And nothing of value was lost."
@@SacredCowShipyards except for the giant probably very expensive freighter cosplaying as a warship.
Apart from that.
These are merchants, not military commanders. They probably didn't think of it until it happened.
Should have hired some mercs/veterans. The Star Wars galaxy is literally full of them.
I have an Episode one cross-section book lying around and took a look at it. It points out that the main reactors were not on the flight deck but were one of three *GIANT* spherical devices in front of each primary engine. I think I've heard it somewhere that what the little punk hit were some kind of fuel pumps, fuel storage, or fighter recharge reactors, SOMETHING that goes boom when hit.
What really could be checked up to was an impractical design for war, these ships were built as merchant ships first so there were no efforts made to partition critical or volatile parts from one another because no one expected them to originally be shot up by anything less a few fights, let alone have one fly in and dump a torpedo into it from the inside. The whole incident was a chain reaction following the ship's fuel system if the books any indication. Heck if little Annie had shot the main reactor then I doubt he'd have time to escape as the whole thing would have blown up in his face.
Still it's a shame we don't get to see any more of these ships, I like to think someone like the Rebels would have made one into a hidden space base or a pirate trading outpost over some outer rim world.
Things can go wrong even if no one is shooting at you. Sometimes freighters move volatile cargo (fuel, for example) and if something goes wrong with that you would want critical components of the ship partitioned off from the cargo area. In fact: You would want multiple seperated cargo spaces in order to keep goods that don't mix well seperated from each other. Having seperated cargo spaces also has the benefit that you can have different storage conditions (as in temperature, pressure), which would allow you to move a larger array of goods on the same trip than one huge cargo area would. So: unless the ship was designed to handle just one, non-volatile type of cargo, having that huge empty bay Anakin flew threw in order to get to a vulnerable part makes no sense in a freighter either. The only explanation that - in my opinion at least - makes any kind of sense is that during the conversion to a warship the trade federation removed partitions in order to facilitate fighter operations. If I remember correctly vulture droids carry very little fuel and need to return to their carrier very frequently. You would want as many refueling stations in your hangar as possible to avoid having to queue the fighters. After all: A fighter waiting for a slot to be refueled is not a fighter that is defending the ship or attacking the enemy.
The rebels had a lucre
Apparently the spaceframe survived /long/ past the Clone Wars, and even the Empire, according to various stories.
I guess you can say the writers really dropped the ball with this design...
I'll see myself out.
Good you need to go
I'm somewhat surprised that you were the only person to catch that joke. Apparently I am /far/ too deadpan.
I sighed, then continued watching.
@@EclipseWarlord we all did
Well, warships disguised as merchants to ambush unsuspecting enemy was not a bad idea.
But in previous era, of wooden ships and iron men, there were marchant ships that were disguised as warships to convince pirates to not even try to attack them, with false gun ports made or painted on the hull.
The ring ship is not a bad idea, especially in space. You can rotate it on any axis to give your gun a desired shooting arc. But true, no compartments, no bulkheads to separate damaged ship sections, or even separating different cargo types from each other, like two perfectly stable chemical compounds stored next to each other. Compounds that when mixed together have a very violent, or just simply explosive, reaction... Not a very good design of a ship that can loose artificial gravity at any moment due to various reasons.
And even worse crime of exposing very important systems to loose cargo, like an escaped pet Rankorn that someone rich would like to transport but it get loose and demolished half of a cargo bay and then smashed into the reactor and accidentally blow himself and the ship...
Yeah. Very tragic.
Simultaneously with merchant ships disguising themselves as warships they also had warships disguised as merchant ships with panels over the cannons to lure pirates in. That's partly because it was against pirates, but given how often pirates got support by rival states in those days there wasn't much distinction. The "Cruiser Rules" were really a very short period in between that and submarine warfare.
I think the important thing is to remember it was pre-clone wars an auxiliary warship met to fight off pirates and when the clone wars begun it was essentially just a refit. While there are definitely methods that could have been taken during the refit, such as more internal bulkheads, it’s important t to remember it’s still a freighter.
I gotta agree that the warship Lukerhulk is a terrible idea. That doesn’t change the fact that I think that this is an excellent trading ship. Droid security, droid crew, and many doors and a cargo hold that is empty to vacuum means that it can be more difficult for your stuffs to be taken. The armament makes sense considering that pirates abound in the SW universe, but it could definitely be better organized.
the armament was illegal and what made the war start in the first place.
the TF wanted to combat the pirates as they worked in the outer rim but the GR said 'no we say all merchants have no guns' so the TF decided to start the CIS to stand up to the pirates and be recognized by the GR as an independent equal polity.
@@themajormagers The GR did give the TF permission equip thier ships with a light armament to combat pirates with. It was no where near enough though. Although that was more the straw that broke the camels back for the TF. The bigger problem (as with most revolutions) was the GR trying to increase taxes and government control in the Outer Rim, where they previously had let the corporations run wild to encourage development in the OR.
"Stay strapped or get clapped, G!"- John Arbuthnot Fisher, 1st Baron
Talk about Cruiser Rules, in WW2 the Kriegsmarine, the naval arm of the moustache man, actually made an attempt to maintain those rules, they would regularly halt unescorted merchant ships and either destroy their load or only sink the ship after the crew had evacuated, in contrast to the yanks who outright gunned down almost every single survivor of Japanese ships (civilian or military) in the pacific, considering Japanese fanaticism a somewhat understandable action. That was until the Laconia incident, after having sunk the eponymous british troop ship, submarine U-156 collected all the survivors and were towing them in their life rafts to the nearest civilian Vichi french vessel for handover, during which they raised red cross banners and were broadcasting their intentions on allied frequencies.
Then a wild USAAF B-24 appeared and started shooting/bombing them, forcing U-156 to abbandon the survivors, what followed was vertiable cluster fuck that resulted in the deaths of hundreads of survivors, as other Kriegsmarine submarines tried to launch rescue operations and were subsequently gunned down by allied forces despite going under no fire rules.
After that, Dönitz basically said "Fuck it, they want total fuckin war? We will give them total fuckin war!" and all gentlemen rules were thrown overboard. At the Nürnberg trials, the entire incident turned into a shitshow when THE Admiral Chester fuckin Nimitz spoke out IN DEFENSE of the Kriegsmarine, severly embarrassing the entire prosecution.
Another issue with trying the Kriegsmarine admirals for unrestricted submarine warfare was that allied submarines used USW as well.
Dönitz wasn't entirely clean, slave labor was used for construction of KM ships etc, but yeah on the USW front the prosecution was being pretty hypocritical.
@@gokbay3057 Indeed, hence why Nimitz spoke out in favor of Dönitz and Reader. I think it was somewhere along the lines of "If you want to lock those two up for USW, then you might as well lock me up too!" I swear, that man was an absolute chad.
Nimitz's field of fucks was as barren as the flight deck of every single carrier of the class that was named after him.
Although I will note that, personally, I consider cruiser rules to have expired in WWI, with vengeance. That people tried to keep them going in WW2, The Electric Boogaloo is a credit to their character, buuuuuutttt.....
@@SacredCowShipyards buuuuuutttt a couple good deeds dont absolve the general fuckery that went on with the Nazis.
For me personally, studying WW2 was something of an eye opener for realizing that not every "bad guy" is evil and not every "good guy" is rightious. As a emo blueberry once said "The line between light and dark is oh so very thin." Then I shot him in the face. ^^
Also, the reference to the USS Nimitz, is that because she never had enough planes or they simply never packed her deck full of them? ^^
Mostly that you can't grow crops on nonskid.
There's a scene from Tanya The Saga of Evil anime where Tanya uses a loudspeaker to warn people they're going to die, the cruiser rules reminds me of it :3
Funnily enough, the most effective anti-sub tool in the Royal Navy's arsenal was... Fishing Hooks. I kid you not, the Destroyers literally went fishing for subs.
1:17 “...in your timeline”
-input here nervous Pepe sweating-
Add two massive dishes, on each side of the central sphere and you could call the Lucrehulks "Mickey"...
The worst thing is that during WW1 and 2, stuff like this more or less happened. Nations would basically bolt a crap ton of guns onto cruise liner, call them Auxiliary Cruisers and send them out to attack the merchant shipping on their enemies. There was at least one instance where two of these converted liners fought one another in a stand-up battle and it was absolute carnage on both sides, since they were blazing away at one another at close range owing to the non-existent range-finding and fire control on them and having literally no armour. Consequently, a single shell hit would blow out whole compartments and start massive fires
i think it was said in lore that it wasnt the main reactor that was blown up in the first film, but instead it was all the fuel cells used for all the fighers and transports, they were just positioned right at the back of the hanger next to the main ractor, still stupid. its a bit like what happened to the Taihō which was taken out by a single torpedo that hit the aviation fuel tanks which started a chain reaction
_Taiho_ had huge problems with its attempts at damage control, too. As memory serves, they'd nearly gotten the fire under control... and then opened hatches to clear the air... which fed oxygen to the smouldering fires. They weren't smouldering anymore after that.
Nautical firefighting was a lot of trial and A LOT of error and... it's gotten better.
One thing to note the hulks in episode 1 where shoddily modified for the blockade they had just bolted on as many guns as they could and when they realized they didn't have enough power said "fuck it throw a bunch of spare reactors into the cargo hold" the clone wars models actually had their additional reactors armored up and safe(ish)
At least they learned from their catastrophic failure.
@Sacred Cow Shipyards I honestly imagine the reactors in hangars were an effect of something that went like this:
"sir, the added turbolasers draw too much power to work when core ship is on planet, what should we do?"
"you see that shipping of battleship cores? Just plug a few of them in the back of hangar, it should be enough..."
"And if the customer complains, we'll just... shoot them."
I would argue that the "Gentleman's Rules of War", was a recently new idea in our history.
For most of history it was "kill everyone and sell the survivors into slavery".
Eh, as long as y'all have been writing y'all have been setting rules for war. Whether or not you follow them is something else entirely.
The Lucrehulk class battleship looks like you put sphere into a half eaten doughnut.
Combining a donut and a donut hole? :P
@@seanheath4492 was coming down to say the exact same thing
It's a surprisingly competent battleship, a carrier to rival a super star destroyer, a military transport big enough to facilitate planetary invasions, a bulk freighter capable of transporting cargo at the galactic scale, and it has FIFTY CONFERENCE ROOMS. [Oh, and its central structure can detach to perform atmospheric landings as a still massive dropship.]
I think this ship's biggest problem is that there wasn't enough of them.
This channel is like a mug of hot coffee with chile syrup and the real heavy cream, just the perfect balance of sweet and spicy and caffeinated.
Let's not forget the necessary ethanol.
People keep thinking I'm you, so I googled you. it took me 38 seconds to subscribe, kudos.
Sounds like you need to find those people and do things to them that would get me in trouble with the "authorities" here if I were to describe them.
For the comparison, that is.
Thanks for the subscription, just to be clear.
Got a line on half a dozen Venator class ships that were not decommissioned. They are ripe for cube life if you are interested.
I suppose if you welded all the leading edges of their wedges together into a massive cone, they might actually be interesting.
@@SacredCowShipyards I see. A cone is a good shape as well.
They attest leaned their lesson as in the clone wars unbara arc they added ray shields to protect to reactor on their later transport supply ships
A friend of mine was once asked to install a fully functional toilet 7 feet off the ground.... for the sake of too much money and art.
That should answer some of the Star Wars design conundrums.
The military variant Lucrehulk; basically a defense platform, regardless of if it’s a battleship or carrier sub-variants. It just kinda parks in a place and spews out lasers and fighters. It’s got the sheer mass, shields, and armor belt to just not care. I love the murder donut to bits.
You forgot the Hull was made from Explodium
A rare metallic mineral capable of Violent reactions exposed to the proximity of Hero Plot Armor
Ah, the same stuff that consoles are made of in Star Trek.
@@CantankerousDave same for the ship that apparently explodes easily just by firing a single photon torpedo at it.
Q: What do you call a dirty Lucrehulk? A: Filthy Lucre
I love the Lucrehulk specifically because it actually does does look like a perfectly competent effort at a large freight carrying vessel by Star Wars standards. And while that doesn't translate to a good warship, it does translate to a great transport for troops and equipment.
Well that's what you get when a merchant is in charge of designing a "battleship". 😂
Everyone knows if you want a merchant company to make a decent battleship you don't tell them to "build a battleship", you warn them about pirates coming to rob them.
You'll get a lean, purpose built cruiser with enough guns & armor to get the job done, w/o all the extra BS by the end of the week.
I've *always* hated the TF equipment. You can TELL it was designed by someone making a consumer product w no idea of what's actually needed.
Which really shows how much though Lucasfilm actually put into their work back then, as the garbage the TF uses is *exactly* the kind of garbage organizations like that come up with (Bradly Fighting Vehicle, anyone?)
@@nicholashodges201 Bradley IFV is fine, the guy who wrote pentagon wars was a hack with an axe to grind.
@@georgethompson1460 the Bradly is a piece of garbage that can barely hold a squad, couldn't resist small arms fire without after factory modifications, can't out run or out shoot other apc's and gasses it's occupants before they can bail when it catches fire.
@@nicholashodges201 it's not supposed to be an APC. That Era of warfare is done with. The Bradley was our answer the BMP of the Soviets and it was well done with a heavy auto cannon, TOW missiles, and decent enough armor to stop small arms fire. It's not supposed to stop anti tank weapons (and since when did tanks as a rule stop anti tank weapons? It's literally in the name of the weapon)
The dude who wrote the Bradley wars was nothing more than a desk warrior who never say combat. That was his first primary failing
@@Darqshadow that is a perfect description of the Bradley's situation
the lucrehulk is a formidable force, especially against a lone clone commando squad on an abandoned frigate blessed with plot armor
It's not a slippery slope fallacy when you're literally slipping down a slope.
Swan diving off a cliff
Typically I find the ones shrieking about "slippery slope fallacy" to be the ones talking out of their @$$. Or flat out lying in the hopes that nobody notices the slide.
The worst of it is that not only do they exist, they're *old*. Censorship, authoritarian power grabs etc, keeps happening and we keep having the same damn arguments about them
Lol! I'm stealing this quote 😁👍🏻
@@nicholashodges201 Well, it's not like disney has fallen so far as to use slave labor themselves is it? ...Oh, wait, local labor was used to build sets in Xinjiang... And then they thank a chinese propaganda bureau in the credits... Hmm...
"Oh God! Help! Call for search and rescue! --- BUT NOT FOR ME!"
Just imagine the first U-Boat captain to go, "I seem to have made a serious mistake."
Boba's ship goes from Slave1 to Firespray at the same rate Disney goes from entertaining to insulting. To save my psyche I do a Jedi hand wave and say "this is not the Star Wars you are looking for, carry on".
Oh that disney changing name thingy is actually disheartening ... they truly dont see anything as holy in their purchased ip's.
I might also add that the empire went and saw the lucrehulk and went we need this but even bigger and bamn the secutor class became a thing which eventually led to the development of the Super-class star destroyers which are essentially moving space fortresses.
Too many Mini-WTFs in his blood. Truer words never spoken.
Let’s be honest here, Disney changing a ship’s name, no matter how dumb, is the least of its stupid decisions when it’s in the business of neutering all its male Star Wars characters. Boba went from a cold, calculating, merciless Hunter to…a kindly old man cosplaying as a Mandolorian. Rest In peace compelling anti-heroes, we hardly knew ye.
Old Boba: Had to be warned not to disintegrate targets.
New Boba: Gets concerned that, "Keep an eye out," might offend someone with a voluntarily-augmented cybernetic eye.
Something was, indeed, lost.
@@SacredCowShipyards I like to have the idea he's both. On one had Boba will brutally murder a crime lord and all of their guards for five credits, but on the other he makes sure to use someone's right pronouns. A badass but not a jerk.
Old Boba was also a klutz that was taken out as a joke.
@@HelghastStalker I don't remember Boba ever having that characterization, but we could have been reading different stuff since Legends is so vast and has a lot of contradictory stuff. Though I have to say I feel like the "new" Boba Fett is far more Mandalorian than the one you are describing.
@@HelghastStalker I never said either continuity is better than the other. And Legends did contradict itself, that's going to happen when you have so much material set in the same universe written by so many people.
I will forever rename the ship to "pooh bears slave 1"
"Slave Xi".
Don't forget that three clones in stolen starfighters were able to do the same thing again years later, even when the TF installed internal shield systems.
To be fair, the exposed reactors in episode I was due to a merchant ship being retrofited into a battleship. They corrected the issue by the clone wars if im not mistaken, and fitted even more guns and stronger shilds.
The lucrehulk by the time of the clone wars was a monster of a battleship.
Huh, I never realized those ball ships on geonosis were lucrehulk cores... Which means the trade federation lost several battleships to ground fire. Sure would have been nasty if those balls had naval grade shield generators and cannons pouring fire onto the ground troops.
Then again those ground artillery were Battleship grade weaponry on a walker vehicle.
Those ground artillery tanks are beam turbolasers designed to blow holes on warships. One even destroys a Sep frigate in the opening shot of EP3.
They actually DID add shield generators and added in the "if under fire, shoot back" doctrine on the ones you see in Episode 3. There are three Trade Federation/Confederacy of Independent Systems generations and one Rebel Alliance generation of Lucrehulks.
@@barrybend7189 Yeah, but there's no way they had the armor or sheilds to protect them from similar weapons. Return fire from battleship-grade weapons would have massacred them. Heck, even point defense weapons might have gotten the job done, much like a machine gun on a tank can take out a guy with an rpg.
If you look closely in AOTC, as Dooku is flying away from Geonosis, you can see one of the core ships floating up into its ring.
Imagine building a cargo battleship, only to get sent to the forever box because the planet had unsecured fighters due to a few special people with glowsticks and a kid.
TBF, I don't think the cores were meant to be separated from the rest of the ship in combat situations. I heard what happened was after the battle of Naboo the Senate forced the Trade Federation to disarm, which meant ditching the cores of their Lucrehulks to severely limit their ability to act as warships. Those cores on Geonosis were what the Trade Federation squirreled away in case they wanted to make their Lucrehulks into warships again.
As I recall, the cores could detach for maintenance from day one and the idea of using them as shuttles or dropships was cooked up between Naboo and Geonosis by the Trade Federation. Of course, the CIS as a whole thought this was idiotic and basically said "shield the darn things if you're going to use them that way" and the third and final generation Lucrehulk variant--which notably did not come in a droid control ship variation, indicating at least to me they were moving away from that concept--actually did have a separately-shielded core ship (which, along with the second version of the ship in use by the CIS during the Clone Wars, also got used by the Rebellion, though the Rebels rather wisely bolted the core ships to the docking rings on the earlier models that didn't have their own shield generators). Surprisingly, the Lucrehulk's development is really well-covered between the prequel trilogy and The Clone Wars TV series; it didn't really need any retcons to tell us there were five Trade Federation or CIS subclasses (TF Battleship, Droid Control Ship Gen 1, TF Battleship Gen 2, Droid Control Ship Gen 2, TF Battleship Gen 3), plus one subclass the Rebellion had upgraded that was basically the TF Battleship Gen 2 with the non-detachable core ship (fun fact: they got this from one of the pre-Mouse EU Corporate Sector Authority variants, the other being the less common, unaltered TF Battleship Gen 3, which we've also seen the Rebels use canonically of late).
There seems to be a ... lot of disagreement.
@@SacredCowShipyards I doubt it, Dockmaster. The details within the explanations for the Lucrehulk’s development got kinda changed when the Bloodthirsty Mouse took over. If I’m using old Legends continuity, please, feel free to fix gaffes I made.
I love how this channel manages to mix scathing critique, satire, plain comedy and historical lessons :-) I had never heard of the Cruiser Rules prior to this but now I will be doing some reading on them, how I had missed them to begin with might have been my preference for land combat rather than Naval despite having plenty of Sailors in the family...
That or just plain old laziness, yeah that might be it.
In the end, they ended up being more guidelines.
On the bright side, it wasn't humans that designed the ball drop ship this time.
"Wars were things that were fought over hills..."
_General William Tecumsah Sherman has left the chat_
Exception that proves the rule.
3:25 I mean, some submarine captains did abide by cruiser protocols in the early stages of WW2, though it generally stopped once escorted convoys became the norm. I think my dad has - somewhere around -a copy of the letter received by the Red Cross from the captain of the U-boat that sank his uncle's merchant ship. It essentially identifies the time and approximate location of the encounter, and was accompanied by 2 photographs, 1 of the ship with it's lifeboats deployed, and one which has both of the lifeboats in fame, and was good enough that several crew members were positively identified from it.
I mean, I kind of said that.
My favourite ship transformation would the Kuun-Lan from Homeworld: Cataclym game. It started out as mining vessel but throughout the campaign it became a powerful battleship armed with a Yamato superweapon and carried Super Acolyte fighters. It also built a whole fleet of combat ships that it lead to hunt down a galactic threat.
As a star wars fan, I love it when you tear these ships up lol
Honestly that thing could be a fantastic mine layer or missile ship. Come to a planet under the guise of merchanting then block out the sun with mines.
The Lucrehulk seems in true corporate fashion to be an attempt to make or rather convert a ship to fulfill pretty much every role you need in warfare, and unfortunately it becomes mediocre at any of those roles. Though it did one thing I haven't seen much of in fiction that intrigues me, it served at least in the Naboo Conflict as a stealth troop carrier. It's one thing to have a bunch of well armed truckers blockading your town, when suddenly a bunch of armed troops you didn't know existed start pouring out of said trucks, that would be a Hell of a surprise. Granted you'd only get away with that trick once, but still a fascinating idea to secret an army right into the middle of the enemy on a regular old cargo ship. Only other time I've read someone doing that in fiction was Tom Clancy's "Red Storm Rising" but I've seen such tactics debated endlessly about a possible PRC invasion of Taiwan.
small correction about the Trade Fed.
they were being picked off by pirates / raiders and wanted to arm their ships to combat the merchant raiders. the galactic republic said no we will go to war if you do that. they said well shit and started to secretly arm up a fleet anyways and built connections or strong armed the surrounding small polities into joining for the purpose of being recognized as an independent and equal group that the galactic republic could work with. This would have worked as they had a massive army and fleet that could make them equals to the GR but the sith who were working in the background to make the whole situation in the first place had clone troopers ready to even the playing field so both sides would die and leave the GR ready for takeover.
TLDR: TF was going to have Q ships or just flat out warships but were told no.
Wasn't expecting a Star Wars ship video to start with a mini-lecture on honourable naval warfare and where it went wrong, but hey, I learned some new things today, so I'm happy
To be fair, after tagt naboo incident they installed ray shields in front of the reactor rooms
For anakin's lucky shot it wasn't that he hit the reactor. What he hit was one of the many many extra power stations added into the refit. They needed those new reactors to power all the extra shit they added and to power all the fighters they added. Blowing up that first one just caused a chain reaction that spread.
Today I learned that the ball was a dropship and that the lukrehulk is now one of my favorite spaceships in star wars now because of it
Nothing says style more than a battery of Turbolasers in your face.
9:19 With the trailer for that new Star Wars game, it would seem the Episode I LucreHulk is not the earliest armed iteration
one example of a Q ship in scifi that I like is in the Honor Harrington series they have covers for the weapons ports that don't need to be dropped they can just fire through them and then replace them after the fight
The Lucrehulk is a solid design used for the wrong application. Missile/torpedo platform (at long range), combined arms troop carrier, and dedicated carrier? Absolutely! As a battleship, especially in its initial militarized configuration as seen in the Battle of Naboo? Abysmal.
With some work, it can be a great capital/support ship.
The reason its used as a battle carrier early on is because, as a freighter, it's already a good carrier/troop ship thanks to the size of its hold and the Trafe Federation also wanted a battleship for blockades and piracy suppression. As is often the case, instead of designing a dedicated battleship to field alongside the Lucrehulk they just strapped a bunch of guns on the Lucrehulks. This decision makes a lot of sense for a corporation that needs to keep the bottom line in mind. And when the clone wars started the CIS had fat less resources than the republic to work with so instead of redesigning the Lucrehulk they must kept upgrading what they already had to cut costs.
Imagine converting that cargo space to proton torpedo mags / launchers instead.
@@SacredCowShipyards I know, right? And concussion missiles and the like. That would slay as fire support! A high endurance and output missile platform still boasting decent defenses including the 1500 vulture droids as a defensive screen. Since the roof based racks are pretty efficient space use and out of the way, you could probably work around or move them pretty easily.
Slave 1 always kinda looked like some sort of orbital or detail sander to me.
In the SF story I'm writing, the hero ship might qualify as a Q-ship. It's classified as a type of cutter, but they changed the forward observation dome and escape port so that it becomes an emission port for a big-honking space gun. And the cargo ports can probably be used for launching missiles.
almost forgot it was about a starwars ship. damn
Who would win?
The Big Donut Boi
Or
That One Spacey Boi
One thing that always confused me about the Lucrehulk was its use as a carrier. Of all the designs for a carrier, having the hangar openings on the far ends of the split ring, not just near each other but practically _facing_ each other, seems like a hilariously bad design. Any ship being launched or recovered would need to execute an almost ninety-degree turn immediately outside of the hangar doors. The required maneuvering would get even more squirrelly if the Lucrehulk is itself maneuvering at the time, since the doors are so far away from the ship's axes of rotation that even small changes in the ship's orientation would sweep the hangar openings around wildly.
Even under calm circumstances when the Lucrehulk itself is staying absolutely stock-still during launch or recovery operations, any problems among the smaller ships would cause instant disaster: if a ship trying to launch screwed up its turn or had a malfunction, its momentum would carry it directly into the traffic pattern of the other door, causing a cascade of ships crashing into each other - not to mention a hailstorm of debris and fuels - right in the middle of the most vulnerable, high-traffic area of the ship.
Still, it does have an impressive throw weight of fire, it can carry a huge number of troops and fighters (even if launching them is a hot mess waiting to happen), and the Lucrehulk design is one of the vanishingly few starships in science fiction whose main bridge is _NOT_ in a particularly exposed position. The command ball may not have its own shields when separated, but it has plenty when docked with its ring, and it and the bridge it contains are as buried within that hull as it is possible to be.
I suppose you could always use some kind of catapult to punt the launching ships out sideways and then let them shoot forward under their own thrust, but Star Wars doesn't seem to have that tech/functionality.
There were also cue ships except they were pirates being built around about the same except they basically do the same as subs but on the surface
A good example is the Wolf from ww1 the most successful of the German „Kaperschiffe“ translated it means soemthing like privateer ships or raider ships
I would suggest that the Lucrehulk isn't truly a battleship or carrier. It's better classified as an amphibious warfare ship, equivalent to a modern day LHD or LHA. A modified carrier focused on landing troops and supporting those troops. And in that role, it makes some sense. The guns are where they are because that's where they could fit them during the refit. If this vessel were escorted by a proper battlegroup, it would be a very, very effective vessel.
I'm pretty sure the idea that warfare has only become "unrestricted" recently is a common misconception about history. There was a brief time in the 18th and 19th centuries in Europe when commanders might have given lip service to the idea of "polite" warfare, but even in that narrow geographic and chronological time frame, it often went by the wayside pretty quickly. Medieval European wars tended to burn fields and murder fairly indiscriminately. At pretty much every point in time and place, if your opponent was of a different religion, all bets were off. There is some evidence to suggest that we homo sapiens massacred every other species of proto-human off the face of the planet! I think it's been a pretty narrow stretch of human history wherein leaders came up with noble-sounding justifications for war that included supposed rules of conduct.
Even the Romans had supposed rules of conduct and required at least token justification. It's a lot messier and more complicated than your hyper-simplified description
@@TheAchilles26 even then, the idea of "fuck it, burn their cities down and salt their fields so they can't back from this one" was a thing.
@@TheAchilles26 wow a UA-cam comment didn't go into doctoral disortation lvls of detail what a travesty
All of that is highly dependent on time, place & who the combatants were. "Knightly battle" was every bit as choreographed as the ritual wars on the Pacific Islands, with incredibly small numbers of serious casualties on either side. Peasant battles, wars of conquest and death matches like Jerusalem or Carthage are completely different matters.
But for most of human history we've generally *tried* to keep the mayhem to a reasonable minimum. Every culture on earth has rules for war, and they remain fairly consistent across time & space. Those rules also tend to go out the window as any particular war drags on, or if the opposing forces are different enough from each other to be considered "alien".
The big difference starting in the 19th century is that war became a "whole society" event, and began to directly effect those far removed (both physically & socially) from the war itself. Wars started getting won or lost in factories & corn fields, often before the first bullet got fired. This led to directly targeting formerly sacrosanct targets such as civilian populations, which in turn has led to more personal investment in harming the enemy, which then leads to directly targeting the civilians and so on.
And it's a direct result of the weapons we now use & the infrastructure required to make them...
@@jonathancrosby1583, I mean, literally claimed that there wasn't even a pretense of rules for warfare until the 18th and 19th centuries. That's just plain false, as opposed to simply lacking detail.
The biggest problem with the lucrehulk is the star wars mentality of treating capital ships like they're their own little fleet... Without giving then their own little fleet.
Take the lucrehulk and treat it the way the US treats air craft carriers. Surround it with cruisers and destroyers if comparable size to defend it. And I mean actual destroyers, fast little ships dedicated to destroying small craft.
But that would require sound military thinking in Star wars.
You really don't see combined-arms fleets in Star Wars.
Like, at all.
I guess it makes it easier for the modelers.
you see it only by Fans and expanded universe material.
the empire had lancer frigates and funny enough x wing pilots feared these things more than the big daddy palpatine machines.
@@laisphinto6372 TBF as a pilot I'd be more scared of a purpose built doom brick with like 20-ish anti fighter guns than a Death ball sporting Anti Cap ships guns.
imagine, half the guns, plough the entirety of the now spared powergrid into overlapping shields, bnolt a few bits of sheetmetal across the hanger doors after the droids are out (hell they are droids, strap them to the outside and use all that extra space for some localised generators and repaor/re-arm bays.
now THAT would be a terrifying ship. it was clearly wasted as a hauler considering how many guns they managed to retrofit onto the damned thing.
As far as i understood it, the reactors were not part of the original ship and installed later to power the sheer mass of droids the Lucrehulk carried as part of the "turning into a Battleship".
So they would not have been there in a proper Lucrehulk in the first place.
honestly, the damn thing is probably one of the best carriers in all of Star Wars, if properly utilized, it'd be pretty damn near a Super Carrier equivalent. its basically all hangar, a very significant portion of its armament is AA, with some anti ship weapons, fighters can exit and return through multiple vectors without compromising the structure of the ship (you know if they remember to close the doors to critical areas) and it has some pretty beefy armor/shields. Give it some proper escorts (like the various Separatist frigates and such) and most of its flaws become irrelevant. Because then you'd have a fighter screen so thick that angle of attack is non viable, and the escorts would pose enough of a threat, any enemy would have to focus on them first with their capital ships giving them opportunity to jump to hyperspace.
The Lukrehulk makes me think of something you’d use as a mobile staging area or orbital control tower or planetary invasion coordination craft.
Plenty of space for docking smaller craft, space superiority fighters, or landing vehicles. It would make a fantastic carrier if they could streamline fighter launching, maybe by using those hatches that then close.
The heavy weapons would deter any occupied planet from causing problems, and could put down actual problems. Definitely not a warship, but could do a lot of things effectively.
the lucerhulk is basically an armored cruiser of the late 1800s in that by the time its used for war its neither armored or a cruiser by the technology of time but its all they got so they gotta use it. Part of their weakness is by design, if the trade federation won outright, then there wouldn't have been an escalated conflict leading to the galactic empire.
Fire spray is the model of 5 prison ships that were built, one of which was stolen by boba and named slave 1. Bobas ship is a fire spray named slave 1
Jango Fett stole it, Boba Fett inherited it after Jango lost about 7-10lbs above the shoulders.
11:25 "There seems to be something wrong with our ships!" - Random Trade Federation Admiral.
"As inscribed on his tombstone."
@@SacredCowShipyards Funnily enough, something similar happened at Jutland among the British Battlecruisers (partially due to their commanders focusing on the Battle part of their name over the Cruiser part, partially due to the Crews taking every step to increase their fire rate, even the ones they shouldn't) provoking a similar remark from then Vice-Admiral David Beatty.
After Action analysis of why that happened resulted in the British going overboard in preventing such a thing happening in future Battleships, with a rather complicated system of doors and locks to prevent sympathetic explosions propagating through the ammunition and propellant.
An interesting reference to our first-ish World War, while the RotJ had one to the Dambusters from the generally called Second World War in the trench run scene.
10:07 and they sometimes acted as carriers/battlecruiser
As with the Venator, if they had just /stuck/ with the carrier aspect, this thing wouldn't have been horrible. And, given its cargo capacity, it could put A LOT of birds in the air. Buuuuuutttt.....
@@SacredCowShipyards and this thing was hard to destroy imagine this thing charging at you while launching a shit ton of fighters
When talking about Star Wars ship designs, you have to factor in the detail that space is essentially two-dimensional in that universe. That's why they never go up and over a blockade or attack from above or below. Everything is on a single plane.
A shame the old EU continuity is no longer official. I loved it when Grand Admiral Thrawn backflipped his star destroyer over a New Republic commander whom he realized was thinking in 2D in Heir to the Empire.
I think the doors being open is more a problem of terrible damage control. I mean we have seen that kind of thing in the Royal Navy.
Well in my defense it is standard for toys to change names for easy purchase. For example, Luke's ship red five is called Luke's ship in the store. To make easy to find. But the ship in canon is red five. With that in mind when I heard about slave one I immediately jumped to the believe it would be the same.
In defense of the original weaponization of the Lucrehulk, it was not meant to be a Q-ship. The Republic was not providing adequate protection against pirates in the free-trade zone where the Lucrehulk operated, so the Trade Federation got Senate permission to bolt guns onto the hull and pack their hangers with battle droids and droid starfighters. After Naboo, though, that permission was stripped away, so the iterations between then and the Clone Wars probably were meant to follow Q-ship logic.
The SPHA-Ts were designed to do that, the reactors Anakin blew up were the auxiliaries that were installed for recharging the Vulture CAP
0:48 so unimaginably based sir comrade ship Master
The firespray has always been the class of his ship. It's been called that for years now. Though, I wouldn't put it past them to only refer to his ship from here on out as firespray.
Morrison has already confirmed they will be.
"You can't just bolt guns on it and call it a battleship leave ALL the hatches open..."
_Admiral David Beatty pauses and looks at this channel._
Well, to his credit, he did notice something was wrong.
@@SacredCowShipyards
I feel like there was something important here... Fish... flesh... Flash? Hatch? Gate? Door?
Something about fire... And flammable explosive powder... And this strange armored box filled with the stuff.
But I can't quite put my dexterous manipulator extremity on it...
Access to your engine/reactors via the cargo decks does make some sense, if you are designing with overhaul and replacement in mind. That said, you would still put up some sort of barrier to protect it from "shit happening" on your flight deck/cargo hold. Because shit does happen.
Shit happens a lot.
When I watched the film and heard about the trade federation.
It made me immediately think of the east India company. A merchant marine owned by the government, who quickly outgrew the ability of the government to protect and assist.
So they get the letter to permit them to defend themselves.... Then end up going too far and deciding they are a military of their own. And screwing up international relations because of their actual power.
And I did wonder why precisely when under attack not a single storage compartment was kept closed during at attack.
At least in Pearl harbor they had the excuse to they did not know hostiles were within range.
But they KNEW that Naboo was under occupation and that angry locals might show up any time. So I would have expected a battle stations to be called as soon as reports or conflict broke out on the ground, just in case it was a distraction from a real threat.
I need to say something about the beginning comments about how humans have "recently" changed how they fought wars. Yes, there were more formal rules about wars, but we broke them all the time. It is not that we have become more brutal in our ending of lives, it is just that we have been allowing our creativity in how to brutally kill each other has been allowed to flourish as of late.
I wonder if any Hiigaran craft have ever been cubed at your dock?
I learn more about 16th-20th century earth naval history from this channel in 10 minutes than proper history channels.
Someone installed a "useless knowledge" module one day.