I've seen a couple of comments indicating I installed the anti-backlash nut upside down (in other words, with the spring on the bottom). This intrigued me, so I wanted to see if this orientation introduced any additional imprecision. Using digital calipers, I measured the distance between the "spring contact" surfaces of the installed anti-backlash nut kit. That is, the parts of the upper and lower nuts which are in contact with the spring. The distance varied between 15.27mm and 15.28mm. Manually turning the lead screw to raise and lower the gantry did not change the values beyond what I stated above. Directionality of motion also did not affect the reading. In other words, while raising the gantry, the distance would vary by 0.01mm during the course of the movement, and while lowering the gantry, the distance would also vary by 0.01mm during the course of the movement. So the 0.01mm difference is probably more to do with the accuracy of the calipers than anything. But let's say the calipers are perfectly accurate. The 0.01mm variation in distance between the two halves of the nuts represents 5% of the thickness of a 0.2mm layer. (0.01/0.2)*100=5% My conclusion, therefore, is that it doesn't matter that I've got the nut mounted with the spring on the bottom. The anti-backlash nut is still providing the desired side effect, namely increased friction on the lead screw to prevent the gantry from sinking to the bed when the Z axis motor is de-energized. If you'd like to weigh in, reply to this comment, and we can keep the discussion in one spot!
The spring is there to push the bronze nut against the lead screw and HELP gravity for it to never loose contact with the same edge when reversing, it helps when your gantry does NOT fall by itself :P which is a good thing if not loose lol . use G-code to hold position, don't cripple your printer to hold the gantry ;). Science
@@HoRNET_FPV I think a fun experiment would be to see how much weight is required to overcome the ability of the anti-backlash nut’s ability to prevent spinning the lead screw when the motor’s de-energized, with the nut in each orientation. And yes, modifying the ending G-code to never, ever, ever turn off the Z axis motor would work. Until you lose power for a couple of minutes. For printers that (a) have the issue, and (b) have the power loss print recovery feature, resuming the print after the nozzle drops may be problematic. But I don’t think an anti-backlash nut cripples the printer. 😀
@@BV3D I think you don't understand the purpose of it. There is no experiment to be had. The gantry falling is not an "issue" related backlash... nor should you try to "fix" it with an inverted spring load. just tighten yur wheels a bit..and use the anti backlash nut the right way to have the gantry follow the bottom edge of the lead screw, like it is meant to be used. In fact do what you want lmao, just don't propagate misinformation.
@@HoRNET_FPV I understand the purpose of the anti-backlash nut. But with the lead screw only ever pushing the gantry up during a print job, there's no backlash to be anti-ed. And we're both in agreement that the gantry falling isn't an issue related to backlash. In fact the issue is a need for more friction on the Z axis so gravity doesn't do that thing that it does. I can either over-tighten the eccentric nuts on the wheels to the point where they hold the Z axis (but get flat spots when resting too long), or I can make use of a _side effect_ of the anti-backlash nut, which is adding a bit of friction against the lead screw so it doesn't spin as easily. I get that we're not trying to eliminate backlash. We're adding friction. Orientation of the anti-backlash nut doesn't matter in this application. But keeping it out of the way of the filament path is desirable, and mounting it in this orientation achieves that. I don't see a clear, definitive answer out there regarding the orientation of an anti-backlash nut when used for this specific purpose. If you've got a link to something like _The Idiot's Guide to Using Anti-Backlash Nuts on the Z Axis of a 3D Printer_ I'd love to take a look at it. 👍🏻
Hey Bryan, you mounted the nut upside down. If you put pressure on the gantry, it'll move because the spring compresses. This is a common misconception. The right orientation is when you push down on the gantry, the spring stretches instead.
Definitely the right way. I've been getting a bulge of material on the second or third layer that spanned up to the eighth layer all because the X gantry was able to move by a fraction of a millimeter when I shook it up and down. When I installed the backlash nut like in the video, the the bulge was still there and the movement as well so I moved onto troubleshooting everything else in the printer. Then I installed the backlash nut upside down and the movement was gone and so was the bulge. So much time wasted.
@@refurbishedstereo6038 the orientation is always going to have one sweet spot side with a spring based one(there is also a screw in place type) his arrangement just makes the bolted half always being pushed on the top half of the leadscrew, you want it riding on the bottom so you always have gravity and the spring working in the same direction. this orientation always makes the spring fight the gravity, when going up like with a printer it will be fighting the spring first, and somewhere in that stiffness of the spring it will go up, thats why your problem kept happening
The spring doesnt compress when the gantry is pushed down because the lead screw still has threads connected to the ABL nut, which is bolted to the gantry.
Bryan, I cannot thank you enough. Not only have you been an incredible resource for printing problems and improvements but you’ve shared it in such a concise and wonderful way. It’s honestly a joy to watch your videos!
I also installed the anti-backlash device on My Ender 3 v2 this evening as per UA-cam instructions and other illustration, but while doing so, I came to the realization that this is mechanically incorrect! With the loose nut at the bottom, the spring is trying to push the gantry up against the thread play of the drive screw. I seriously doubt if this little spring can overcome the downward gravity forces, caused by the gantry, the x- stepper, the filament feeder stepper plus the Bowden drive feeder, the hot-head and it's fans! The end result would be induced bounce in the play distance if the spring is pushing the other way and it’s best effort can’t overcome the gantry’s down forces. (ie. Downward for force by the gantry and co minus upward push by the spring) Installing it “upside down”, with the loose nut on top, will assist with the gantry’s downward push on the drive screw thread and eliminate bounce or delayed departure (backlash) when the drive screw suddenly pulls down. (ie. Downward for force by the gantry and co plus downward push by the spring). This just makes mechanical sense! Then I found this video and from the responses I see others has also picked up on this incorrect installation instructions of the backlash nut installation. Installing it the “correct” way will still give you the desired friction.
I had this happen to my stock setup a few weeks ago. I just tightened the eccentric nut to hold the bearing flush in the v slot (it was spinning / not providing any friction). My problem was solved after that.
the rollers are for alignment, not friction. the friction will grind your wheels down faster like that. although, I had my wheels apparently overtightened for over a year and didn't notice any ill effects.
@@AmeshaSpentaArmaiti But look at the inverse of this situation. If the wheel is just floating and free spinning as I described, its not holding. That was causing it to fall. Im also aware of overtightning, and made sure I let the bearing sit in the v roller. After the v roller was seated like all the others I stopped tightening.
@@VMTDesign I see, i never had the wheels loose and only in the last couple months did I learn they were too tight on my ender, I've never had the z axis just drop like was described here either.
Thank you so much. My Z-axis was falling even with this antibacklash nut installed (had previously worked for years). Just needed to tighten that up and that's all the friction it needed to not fall.
Thanks for the easy to follow video! One thing I noticed that I'm not sure is standard - my stock nut was install upside down! Not sure that it mattered before but I was surprised to notice.
The POM anti-backlash nuts are a major upgrade to the brass nuts in the fact that they have less friction thus giving longer life to the nut and the lead screw. Its always one of my must upgrades to every printer, it amazing how fast the brass nut ware out I learnt this a long time ago and yes I lubricated the screw if you were wondering.
I've had the X gantry on my Ender-3 V2 up at ~200mm, doing work on it, when, I guess the Z-Axis got turned off by the printer, 'cause the gantry just dropped like 75 to a 100 mm in a couple seconds. I have an aluminum extruder, filament runout sensor and CR Touch installed, which, I didn't think was that much extra weight, but it must be more than I thought. So, glad I found this video, because I honestly thought something had been damaged on my printer (a little over a month new to the hobby).
I have bought many of these, including on the 1start lead screw with a 2 mm lead. Out of 10 of these spring nuts, you might get five that work perfectly. It seems to depend on at which point the 2/2 were threaded in correlation to the composite locking tabs, anyways, what I have found is that wrapping some fishing string around the spring specifically where the joint is truly eliminates 100% of all lash and puts minimal pressure does not impeding its ability to turn without friction. Obviously not too much fishing wire. I done about five wraps near the joint.
After some monts of use, analysis of this system and comparisons with friends angineers, I think the anti-backlash is totally useless. It has a sense on horizontal systems, but on vertical system subjected to gravity force is useless. That's because the gantry press always it's coupler against the lead screw under his weight. That cancel every backlash effect. There're some resons to use Oldham couplers instead. For bent screws, or for dual Z axis with sync belt and tensioner on top. Put under tension on top the lead screws cause bent that needs to be compensated.
Thanks for commenting! That's pretty much correct. The whole point behind using anti-backlash nuts in this video (regardless of whether they're installed upside down or right side up) is to add a bit more friction to the system, because on this printer, the weight of the X axis was enough to backdrive the Z motors when they weren't energized. *In other words, instead of using them for their intended purpose, I'm using them as brakes.* Anyway, thanks again for the comment, and have a great day!
@@mrmechano When they’re energized, they hold their positions. When they’re de-energized (either because the firmware does it at idle, or the G-code turns them off, or the printer loses power), it can be quite easy to back drive a Z-axis stepper motor with just the weight of the X-axis arm. 🙂
If you buy longer lead screws (400mm with maybe 2mm thread instead of 8mm for better accuracy), you can mount the backlash nut at the top above a thrust bearing on a rigid plate and get it to permanently pull upwards on the screw. That way you can remove the movement of the screw up and down on the spring washer inside the stepper motor at the bottom as well. Having a 2mm thread will naturally remove the droop as well even without he backlash screw.
Brian u da man!!!!!! I have a ender 3 pro and although its ok, it can very easily drop if I put the slightest pressure on it so I just ordered from your link!
It also happens to the Ender 5+ some people on the FB group I am subbed to claim POM anti-backlash nuts solve this problem, One chap has said this wont work as the issue is caused by the stepper motor slightly turning when powered down, I have ordered some POM anti-backlash nuts and am awaiting the delivery so I should know myself very shortly, quite a few people have reported the issue solved with the POM AB nuts so I am quite confident
this is absolutely necessary for anyone with a linear rail or any extra weight on the x axis carriage. everytime there is a power failure or i pause the print it always drops so i ordered one and ill see if it solves my problem.
Haha! Hi, and thanks! I was able to stay warm; I had power throughout Snowpocalypse. I did have to deal with not having running water for about 3 days, though. Collected snow and meltwater from the roof so I could flush! 😂
10 місяців тому
A couple months ago I followed your video to install these, but it seems that you are mounting them upside down, and the explanation of why your version is not possibly working makes really sense...
I fixed this by tightening the eccentric nuts on the gantry. try that out before you buy this :) from the factory it was out of whack.. just see if you can spin the rollers on the outside. If you can spin the bottom one; rotate the eccentric clockwise looking from the front of the printer. while rotating the eccentric nut; spin each of the outside rollers. They should not spin freely; but they should have equal tension on each side.
A non anti-backlash lead screw nut can also cause print quality problems when they wear out. What happens is when the printer tries to do a Z hop, there is so much play between the nut and the lead screw that when the Z motor tries to raise the print head/nozzle to do the hop, the lead screw turns but the nut doesn't move hence the nozzle doesn't move because of the slop so the nozzle just drags across the top of the print causing all kinds of problems. I've seen brand new brass lead screw nuts that were so poorly made that they had slop even from new. I replaced the standard lead screw nuts on both my Ender 3 and Kingroon KP3 a while back with POM (aka, Delrin) versions of the anti-backlash nuts. I used POM because it wears better than brass, is self lubricating, and is smoother. I've noticed much less stringing issues and cleaner prints with this mod. POM anti-backlash nuts are available with the same cut-off sides as the stock Ender 3 brass nuts too. But even if they weren't cut, it's easy enough to cut them yourself.
Do you have a good source to find these? A quick look on Amazon revealed only a single result, where the reviews stated that it was made from "cheap plastic"
@@rkristel82 People who call POM "cheap plastic" have no clue about various materials and their properties. They generally have very little technical knowledge in other areas too. This is the reason I don't pay very much attention to reviews. I buy most of my 3D printer supplies from AliExpress. Do a search for "anti backlash nut, pom" and you'll find quite a few. Been doing business with AliExpress for years and rarely have any issues. If there is an issue with an order, they'll step in and take care of it.
Ooops. Was going to say I installed these in my CR10s but had lots of problems with z axis locking up and poor print quality. It seems like I installed them the wrong way up. Thanks for the video Bryan. Back to the drawing board for me. Or Amazon to buy some more 😀
Just a heads up but if you do this on certain other models of printers, the longer lead screw may prevent the hot end from moving low enough to the bed and may hit the coupler at the bottom (this is the case with the Genius).
Brian, i have been following you for several years now, ever since I started 3D printing.. I have a question to ask about a set of backlash nuts i bought resently. They come with an extra set of springs that mount above the backlash system to put added pressure on the nut. Any idea if it increases performance?
That's exactly why I added one, and it worked perfectly. Once I switched to a microswiss hotend/extruder, my x gantry would slowly wind itself down onto the bed when the steppers disengaged and it was annoying. Plus with the head potentially below the bed if it was off to the side, it would hit it at times when homing. Problem solved.
You're absolutely right! In order for this adapter to maintain a rigid contact between the nut and screw against the downward force (the weight of the x gantry), the spring and auxiliary nut should be on top. If the spring and aux. nut are facing down as shown in the video, the lifting force of the screw is transmitted to the gantry through the spring.
The anti backlash nut also nearly eliminates elephants foot too! The gantry drops down to the first layer height. As the lead screw attempts to raise the gantry for the next layer, the gantry will not lift until the backlash has been taken up. Depending on the wear and amout of backlash, the gantry may not actually move up to the correct layer height for several layers, squishing the bottom layers outward. If the elephants foot is smooth on the edges, adjusting the first layer height in your slicer, or creating a slight chamfer in the STL will work fine. If the elephants foot is jagged and rough, its a Z axis backlash problem that an anti backlash nut should fix. A dual Z lead screw kit with A/B nuts is even better.
Unless it drops so far that it touches the build plate, this isn't going to make a difference. It's always under the effect of gravity so the backlash is always consumed by it.
Id say you'll need a BLTouch too in that case. If you use a splitter and run both motors on one port they can get out of alignment. So both on their own port and the BLTouch can adjust the height of both. Of course, you could go belt drive dual-Z, but that has its own issues. Heck, if you want to get something cool, check out CoreXZ..
Hi id! I considered it, I tried it, and I had to make the wheels tighter than I was comfortable with. I don't like when the wheels get little flat spots on them after the printer's been idle for a bit. 😃
Most slicers shut the motors off in the ending G-code. If you've ever been able to move the bed after a print job, the G-code shut the motors off. Also, the firmware shuts the motors off after a short period when you've entered movement commands from the control panel. Sometimes they're fine, sometimes they drop. Fully stock, they seem to be fine. I've had one stock unit drop a little, but not much, and not always. It seems to depend on the printer, and how much weight is being carried by the Z axis. I've *never* seen it happen on a dual-Z motor printer. 👍
I lubed my Z axis screw recently, and this started happening to me..... I wouldn't see it as a problem really unless you lost power during a print and needed to resume the print. If the Z axis dropped, i don't think the print would be able to continue because from what I've seen Marlin will only home the X, and Y axis but try to print with the Z axis wherever it happens to be.
What really sucks is you cannot install Tr8x2 lead screws on Ender 3 to increase esteps and better layer accuracy. Yet to find an anti-backlash nut with the design to fit the Z carriage. Just different manufacturers churning out Tr8x8's, brass or pom!
Another good tip is to put a BB or small ball bearing into the motor coupler hole before putting your lead screw back in. This will give it some spacing and allow it to line up better. This works best if you have a lead screw guide with a 608 bearing on the end of your lead screw attached to the frame.
@@schlomoshekelstein908 Brass on steel threads will wear the threads. Same with all soft metal bearing applications on steel shafts or threads. The harder material wears away first due to impregnation of the soft metal bearing material. The better solution is to bin all the brass nuts and fit acetal homopolymer nuts and anti backlash adjusters. Very little friction and self lubricating to a very high degree.
@@howardosborne8647 You actually think you can wear out the brass on a 150 dollar 3d printer? How many hours of operation do you think you'd get before it's out of spec? some things in life are "good enough". I have a lathe over 120 years old with bronze bushings and babbit bearings.. No problems so far You strike me as book learned, you have no life experience maybe?
I had this issue and then randomly this video came up in my feed....I installed the backlash nut, and while it does work, its only about 50% effective, my grantry does on a few occasions still drop. I followed you video and the same setup, but having just read your pinned comment, I wonder if the spring mounted on the bottom does make a difference.
@@hareboll did I switch it back to the original set up? No I’ve left the backlash nut on as it does help a little and it’s doing no harm to the printer. But it’s definitely not as effective as I’d hoped
@@robshaw4093 oh I meant if you switched the spring to the other side since he mentioned he may have had it upside down. But I agree, no harm and it helps a bit
@@hareboll no actually I didn’t but I might try that...just see if it does make a difference. I know he said it shouldn’t but never know. Did you put your in the way he said to?
would this help me with my situation? whenever I try to change filament whenever i have multi color print and I pause at a layer height then filament change and press on the extruder release and pull the remaining filament, usually this can cause me to push down on the gantry and mess up my print when it resumes. If I install this would it stop me from having this accident? BTW+ I have the same extruder as you from SEEMECNC.
My CR 10 has plastic spacers in between the brass lead screw, nuts and gantry. I noticed one was cracked when I install these. I’m wondering if anyone out there thinks I should keep the plastic spacers or just take them out and have the brass nuts flush with the gantry?
Add a second lead screw to the right side of the printer. You must sync the lead screws to work together. Otherwise, the stepper motors will make an awful sound as they compete with each other for control. Dual Z-axis lead screw upgrade kits help: 1 - reduce or eliminate right side X-axis gantry sag, 2 - help square off the frame and help to keep the X-axis gantry perpendicular with frame side extrusions, 3 - help make bed-levelling easier, 4 - also stop the "drop". All around, a sound modification. I also switched to direct drive, and replaced the bed springs for silicone mounts, which help the printer to maintain a level bed for longer periods of time. Best mods I ever made. These mods helped me to eliminate all of my E3V2 3D printer issues.
The power supply is original, but I designed a new cover for it with room for a big, slow 60mm fan, and some buck converters. One of the switches is for an overhead light bar, another is for a 5V buck converter that powers a USB port for a Raspberry Pi, and the third is for "future expansion."
@@BV3D so, you took the power supply out of it's original enclosure and placed it into what looks like a 3D printed enclosure? Do you have the STL on Thingiverse?
@@ericfabinger2083 Only the cover -- the part which holds the PSU's cooling fan -- is printed. The remainder of the PSU is the original metal shell. It is a work-in-progress, and eventually there will be a video on it. Thanks!
I think you out it upside down. This still be fighting gravity and the weight of the Z axis. With the spring on top it'll help with the weight and insure it's always bottomed out. Tho the ender 3 z axis isn't exactly heavy. I could be wrong tho I'm not an engineer
Haha! I frequently hear that in videos. I hadn't considered that it might be an Americanism. I think it's sometimes prefaced with, "Now, whatcha wanna do is..." Anyway, you're welcome, and thanks for watching!
@@BV3D The other one is seeing if you CAN'T fix something, instead of seeing if you CAN fix it. Actually, the worst one is COULD care less, instead of COULDN'T care less... American is a weird language..... Either way, your video was very helpful and I successfully fitted my Zed (pun intended) axis anti backlash, so thank you.
Great video! But wow those backlash nuts are pricey considering they probably aren't checking for quality.. I may opt to get them from aliexpress because I need to keep cheap and neither have a seal of approval 😅
The pinned comment (and its ensuing discussion) pretty much covers my position on it. I'm literally not using it for its anti-backlash properties, I'm using it as brakes. 😉
I am a bit confused and frustrated. Since I moded my Ender 3 Pro with the Microswiss hotend, and a metal extruder, I have had the gravity drop problem. Finding your video seemed like exactly what I was needing. I purchased an anti-backlash nut, one to fit my printer. Followed your video for installation, and now the drop is even worse, and I don't know why. Any suggestions? I have re-watched the video multiple times, and I do not see anything that I did differently. Help please.
I've seen a couple of comments indicating I installed the anti-backlash nut upside down (in other words, with the spring on the bottom).
This intrigued me, so I wanted to see if this orientation introduced any additional imprecision.
Using digital calipers, I measured the distance between the "spring contact" surfaces of the installed anti-backlash nut kit. That is, the parts of the upper and lower nuts which are in contact with the spring.
The distance varied between 15.27mm and 15.28mm.
Manually turning the lead screw to raise and lower the gantry did not change the values beyond what I stated above. Directionality of motion also did not affect the reading. In other words, while raising the gantry, the distance would vary by 0.01mm during the course of the movement, and while lowering the gantry, the distance would also vary by 0.01mm during the course of the movement. So the 0.01mm difference is probably more to do with the accuracy of the calipers than anything.
But let's say the calipers are perfectly accurate. The 0.01mm variation in distance between the two halves of the nuts represents 5% of the thickness of a 0.2mm layer. (0.01/0.2)*100=5%
My conclusion, therefore, is that it doesn't matter that I've got the nut mounted with the spring on the bottom. The anti-backlash nut is still providing the desired side effect, namely increased friction on the lead screw to prevent the gantry from sinking to the bed when the Z axis motor is de-energized.
If you'd like to weigh in, reply to this comment, and we can keep the discussion in one spot!
The spring is there to push the bronze nut against the lead screw and HELP gravity for it to never loose contact with the same edge when reversing, it helps when your gantry does NOT fall by itself :P which is a good thing if not loose lol . use G-code to hold position, don't cripple your printer to hold the gantry ;). Science
@@HoRNET_FPV I think a fun experiment would be to see how much weight is required to overcome the ability of the anti-backlash nut’s ability to prevent spinning the lead screw when the motor’s de-energized, with the nut in each orientation.
And yes, modifying the ending G-code to never, ever, ever turn off the Z axis motor would work. Until you lose power for a couple of minutes. For printers that (a) have the issue, and (b) have the power loss print recovery feature, resuming the print after the nozzle drops may be problematic.
But I don’t think an anti-backlash nut cripples the printer. 😀
@@BV3D I think you don't understand the purpose of it. There is no experiment to be had. The gantry falling is not an "issue" related backlash... nor should you try to "fix" it with an inverted spring load. just tighten yur wheels a bit..and use the anti backlash nut the right way to have the gantry follow the bottom edge of the lead screw, like it is meant to be used. In fact do what you want lmao, just don't propagate misinformation.
@@HoRNET_FPV I understand the purpose of the anti-backlash nut. But with the lead screw only ever pushing the gantry up during a print job, there's no backlash to be anti-ed. And we're both in agreement that the gantry falling isn't an issue related to backlash. In fact the issue is a need for more friction on the Z axis so gravity doesn't do that thing that it does.
I can either over-tighten the eccentric nuts on the wheels to the point where they hold the Z axis (but get flat spots when resting too long), or I can make use of a _side effect_ of the anti-backlash nut, which is adding a bit of friction against the lead screw so it doesn't spin as easily.
I get that we're not trying to eliminate backlash. We're adding friction. Orientation of the anti-backlash nut doesn't matter in this application. But keeping it out of the way of the filament path is desirable, and mounting it in this orientation achieves that.
I don't see a clear, definitive answer out there regarding the orientation of an anti-backlash nut when used for this specific purpose. If you've got a link to something like _The Idiot's Guide to Using Anti-Backlash Nuts on the Z Axis of a 3D Printer_ I'd love to take a look at it. 👍🏻
@@BV3D If it's not vertical it doesn't matter. What you desire is weight compensation.
Hey Bryan, you mounted the nut upside down. If you put pressure on the gantry, it'll move because the spring compresses. This is a common misconception. The right orientation is when you push down on the gantry, the spring stretches instead.
Definitely the right way. I've been getting a bulge of material on the second or third layer that spanned up to the eighth layer all because the X gantry was able to move by a fraction of a millimeter when I shook it up and down. When I installed the backlash nut like in the video, the the bulge was still there and the movement as well so I moved onto troubleshooting everything else in the printer. Then I installed the backlash nut upside down and the movement was gone and so was the bulge. So much time wasted.
@@refurbishedstereo6038 the orientation is always going to have one sweet spot side with a spring based one(there is also a screw in place type) his arrangement just makes the bolted half always being pushed on the top half of the leadscrew, you want it riding on the bottom so you always have gravity and the spring working in the same direction.
this orientation always makes the spring fight the gravity, when going up like with a printer it will be fighting the spring first, and somewhere in that stiffness of the spring it will go up, thats why your problem kept happening
The spring doesnt compress when the gantry is pushed down because the lead screw still has threads connected to the ABL nut, which is bolted to the gantry.
@@refurbishedstereo6038 Mine is still falling. So, is the video installing it wrong?
Thanks to putting an Anti-backlash nut. I found out why i had so much problem whit my rod. It didn't had one of the washers. Now it works great!
I owe you so much for these videos at this point. You've helped me more than you'll ever know
Bryan, I cannot thank you enough.
Not only have you been an incredible resource for printing problems and improvements but you’ve shared it in such a concise and wonderful way.
It’s honestly a joy to watch your videos!
Thank you, G, I appreciate that. 👍
You're the best kind of nerd there is. Thank you for sharing your info!
I also installed the anti-backlash device on My Ender 3 v2 this evening as per UA-cam instructions and other illustration, but while doing so, I came to the realization that this is mechanically incorrect! With the loose nut at the bottom, the spring is trying to push the gantry up against the thread play of the drive screw. I seriously doubt if this little spring can overcome the downward gravity forces, caused by the gantry, the x- stepper, the filament feeder stepper plus the Bowden drive feeder, the hot-head and it's fans! The end result would be induced bounce in the play distance if the spring is pushing the other way and it’s best effort can’t overcome the gantry’s down forces. (ie. Downward for force by the gantry and co minus upward push by the spring)
Installing it “upside down”, with the loose nut on top, will assist with the gantry’s downward push on the drive screw thread and eliminate bounce or delayed departure (backlash) when the drive screw suddenly pulls down. (ie. Downward for force by the gantry and co plus downward push by the spring).
This just makes mechanical sense!
Then I found this video and from the responses I see others has also picked up on this incorrect installation instructions of the backlash nut installation. Installing it the “correct” way will still give you the desired friction.
I had this happen to my stock setup a few weeks ago. I just tightened the eccentric nut to hold the bearing flush in the v slot (it was spinning / not providing any friction). My problem was solved after that.
the rollers are for alignment, not friction. the friction will grind your wheels down faster like that. although, I had my wheels apparently overtightened for over a year and didn't notice any ill effects.
@@AmeshaSpentaArmaiti But look at the inverse of this situation. If the wheel is just floating and free spinning as I described, its not holding. That was causing it to fall. Im also aware of overtightning, and made sure I let the bearing sit in the v roller. After the v roller was seated like all the others I stopped tightening.
@@VMTDesign I see, i never had the wheels loose and only in the last couple months did I learn they were too tight on my ender, I've never had the z axis just drop like was described here either.
@@AmeshaSpentaArmaiti add a direct drive extruder and the extra weight will make it fall down pretty easy
Thank you so much. My Z-axis was falling even with this antibacklash nut installed (had previously worked for years). Just needed to tighten that up and that's all the friction it needed to not fall.
Thanks for the easy to follow video! One thing I noticed that I'm not sure is standard - my stock nut was install upside down! Not sure that it mattered before but I was surprised to notice.
The POM anti-backlash nuts are a major upgrade to the brass nuts in the fact that they have less friction thus giving longer life to the nut and the lead screw. Its always one of my must upgrades to every printer, it amazing how fast the brass nut ware out I learnt this a long time ago and yes I lubricated the screw if you were wondering.
I've had the X gantry on my Ender-3 V2 up at ~200mm, doing work on it, when, I guess the Z-Axis got turned off by the printer, 'cause the gantry just dropped like 75 to a 100 mm in a couple seconds. I have an aluminum extruder, filament runout sensor and CR Touch installed, which, I didn't think was that much extra weight, but it must be more than I thought. So, glad I found this video, because I honestly thought something had been damaged on my printer (a little over a month new to the hobby).
I have bought many of these, including on the 1start lead screw with a 2 mm lead. Out of 10 of these spring nuts, you might get five that work perfectly. It seems to depend on at which point the 2/2 were threaded in correlation to the composite locking tabs, anyways, what I have found is that wrapping some fishing string around the spring specifically where the joint is truly eliminates 100% of all lash and puts minimal pressure does not impeding its ability to turn without friction. Obviously not too much fishing wire. I done about five wraps near the joint.
I have been looking for a way to stop the Z axis gantry from dropping for the past 9 months. Thank you so much. Great video.
Hi! You're very welcome! 👍
After some monts of use, analysis of this system and comparisons with friends angineers, I think the anti-backlash is totally useless.
It has a sense on horizontal systems, but on vertical system subjected to gravity force is useless.
That's because the gantry press always it's coupler against the lead screw under his weight. That cancel every backlash effect.
There're some resons to use Oldham couplers instead. For bent screws, or for dual Z axis with sync belt and tensioner on top. Put under tension on top the lead screws cause bent that needs to be compensated.
Thanks for commenting! That's pretty much correct. The whole point behind using anti-backlash nuts in this video (regardless of whether they're installed upside down or right side up) is to add a bit more friction to the system, because on this printer, the weight of the X axis was enough to backdrive the Z motors when they weren't energized.
*In other words, instead of using them for their intended purpose, I'm using them as brakes.*
Anyway, thanks again for the comment, and have a great day!
@@BV3D Ok but under tension the steppers don't permit rotations.
@@mrmechano When they’re energized, they hold their positions. When they’re de-energized (either because the firmware does it at idle, or the G-code turns them off, or the printer loses power), it can be quite easy to back drive a Z-axis stepper motor with just the weight of the X-axis arm. 🙂
On the Ender 3, do you happen to know the size of the lock washers that go with the T8 nuts?
If you buy longer lead screws (400mm with maybe 2mm thread instead of 8mm for better accuracy), you can mount the backlash nut at the top above a thrust bearing on a rigid plate and get it to permanently pull upwards on the screw. That way you can remove the movement of the screw up and down on the spring washer inside the stepper motor at the bottom as well. Having a 2mm thread will naturally remove the droop as well even without he backlash screw.
Brian u da man!!!!!! I have a ender 3 pro and although its ok, it can very easily drop if I put the slightest pressure on it so I just ordered from your link!
keep up the good work bv3d
Thanks, Paul! will do! 👍
It also happens to the Ender 5+ some people on the FB group I am subbed to claim POM anti-backlash nuts solve this problem, One chap has said this wont work as the issue is caused by the stepper motor slightly turning when powered down, I have ordered some POM anti-backlash nuts and am awaiting the delivery so I should know myself very shortly, quite a few people have reported the issue solved with the POM AB nuts so I am quite confident
this is absolutely necessary for anyone with a linear rail or any extra weight on the x axis carriage. everytime there is a power failure or i pause the print it always drops so i ordered one and ill see if it solves my problem.
OMG....thank you! This has been driving me absolutely bonkers ever since I installed new fans. Ordering a anti-backlash nut immediately.
Another amazing video from an amzing Texan! I hope you were staying warm. Howdy from Austin.
Haha! Hi, and thanks! I was able to stay warm; I had power throughout Snowpocalypse. I did have to deal with not having running water for about 3 days, though. Collected snow and meltwater from the roof so I could flush! 😂
A couple months ago I followed your video to install these, but it seems that you are mounting them upside down, and the explanation of why your version is not possibly working makes really sense...
I fixed this by tightening the eccentric nuts on the gantry. try that out before you buy this :) from the factory it was out of whack.. just see if you can spin the rollers on the outside. If you can spin the bottom one; rotate the eccentric clockwise looking from the front of the printer. while rotating the eccentric nut; spin each of the outside rollers. They should not spin freely; but they should have equal tension on each side.
Thanks for the tip! 👍
A non anti-backlash lead screw nut can also cause print quality problems when they wear out. What happens is when the printer tries to do a Z hop, there is so much play between the nut and the lead screw that when the Z motor tries to raise the print head/nozzle to do the hop, the lead screw turns but the nut doesn't move hence the nozzle doesn't move because of the slop so the nozzle just drags across the top of the print causing all kinds of problems. I've seen brand new brass lead screw nuts that were so poorly made that they had slop even from new. I replaced the standard lead screw nuts on both my Ender 3 and Kingroon KP3 a while back with POM (aka, Delrin) versions of the anti-backlash nuts. I used POM because it wears better than brass, is self lubricating, and is smoother. I've noticed much less stringing issues and cleaner prints with this mod.
POM anti-backlash nuts are available with the same cut-off sides as the stock Ender 3 brass nuts too. But even if they weren't cut, it's easy enough to cut them yourself.
Do you have a good source to find these? A quick look on Amazon revealed only a single result, where the reviews stated that it was made from "cheap plastic"
@@rkristel82 People who call POM "cheap plastic" have no clue about various materials and their properties. They generally have very little technical knowledge in other areas too. This is the reason I don't pay very much attention to reviews.
I buy most of my 3D printer supplies from AliExpress. Do a search for "anti backlash nut, pom" and you'll find quite a few.
Been doing business with AliExpress for years and rarely have any issues. If there is an issue with an order, they'll step in and take care of it.
I must be tired, I was laughing way to hard at your "congratulating your self" bit. Thanks again for the info!
Thank you so much! This helped me so much! SO informative as well :)
Ooops. Was going to say I installed these in my CR10s but had lots of problems with z axis locking up and poor print quality. It seems like I installed them the wrong way up. Thanks for the video Bryan. Back to the drawing board for me. Or Amazon to buy some more 😀
Perfekter Lehrfilm. Endlich mal Jemand der Richtig Erklärt.
Good job, Bryan. The POM anti-backlash nuts are great if you want to keep the Z axis from squeaking.
Thanks Ben. I haven't had a squeak issue. Thank goodness. That would drive me crazy! 😬
Just a heads up but if you do this on certain other models of printers, the longer lead screw may prevent the hot end from moving low enough to the bed and may hit the coupler at the bottom (this is the case with the Genius).
Installed a set on one of my Cr-10's. Brand new z axis lead screws, nearly perfect calibration cube, yet I'm still getting z axis banding. Thoughts?
Brian, i have been following you for several years now, ever since I started 3D printing..
I have a question to ask about a set of backlash nuts i bought resently. They come with an extra set of springs that mount above the backlash system to put added pressure on the nut. Any idea if it increases performance?
I Love the DAD t-shirt!
What a DAD!
That's exactly why I added one, and it worked perfectly. Once I switched to a microswiss hotend/extruder, my x gantry would slowly wind itself down onto the bed when the steppers disengaged and it was annoying. Plus with the head potentially below the bed if it was off to the side, it would hit it at times when homing. Problem solved.
Thanks I decided to do one on my v2 I like how you described how it worked
Tried that on my ender 3v2 with direct drive and it works great
Thanks
Isn't the whole nut/spring/nut upside down? I'm just guessing, but the weight should be imho directly on lead screw, not through the spring.
You're absolutely right! In order for this adapter to maintain a rigid contact between the nut and screw against the downward force (the weight of the x gantry), the spring and auxiliary nut should be on top.
If the spring and aux. nut are facing down as shown in the video, the lifting force of the screw is transmitted to the gantry through the spring.
The anti backlash nut also nearly eliminates elephants foot too! The gantry drops down to the first layer height. As the lead screw attempts to raise the gantry for the next layer, the gantry will not lift until the backlash has been taken up. Depending on the wear and amout of backlash, the gantry may not actually move up to the correct layer height for several layers, squishing the bottom layers outward. If the elephants foot is smooth on the edges, adjusting the first layer height in your slicer, or creating a slight chamfer in the STL will work fine. If the elephants foot is jagged and rough, its a Z axis backlash problem that an anti backlash nut should fix. A dual Z lead screw kit with A/B nuts is even better.
Very interesting. I never thought on elephants foot related to backlash, but you are so right. Thank you so much.
Unless it drops so far that it touches the build plate, this isn't going to make a difference. It's always under the effect of gravity so the backlash is always consumed by it.
Nice "DAD" shirt!!!
Thanks! 😀
I am interested if you do a Casey Kasem impression. I feel like it would be spot on. Definitely have a broadcast voice.
I love your shirt man.
I put one on my printer quite awhile ago. Question, if I go to dual Z, should both have them?
Super easy to follow instructions and explanation. Thank you!
Love the content. Just like how you put a picture half nut in the visual. Your either going to have a manual or a C&C late next 😁
So thats how it works! Brian what are your thoughts one dule z axis servo set up?
Id say you'll need a BLTouch too in that case. If you use a splitter and run both motors on one port they can get out of alignment. So both on their own port and the BLTouch can adjust the height of both. Of course, you could go belt drive dual-Z, but that has its own issues. Heck, if you want to get something cool, check out CoreXZ..
Love the shirt!
Thanks! 😀
DAD
interesting. have you considered adjusting the eccentric nuts before throwing out the lead screw nut?
Hi id! I considered it, I tried it, and I had to make the wheels tighter than I was comfortable with. I don't like when the wheels get little flat spots on them after the printer's been idle for a bit. 😃
Under what circumstances does the printer turn off the Z stepper motor?
I can't remember my Ender 3's ever dropping the gantry.
Most slicers shut the motors off in the ending G-code. If you've ever been able to move the bed after a print job, the G-code shut the motors off. Also, the firmware shuts the motors off after a short period when you've entered movement commands from the control panel.
Sometimes they're fine, sometimes they drop. Fully stock, they seem to be fine. I've had one stock unit drop a little, but not much, and not always. It seems to depend on the printer, and how much weight is being carried by the Z axis. I've *never* seen it happen on a dual-Z motor printer. 👍
@@BV3D That's probably why I have not experienced it as the only mods on my gantries are Micro Swiss hot-ends
@@AndrewAHayes I've been experimenting with different things on mine. But I do love my Micro Swiss all metal hot ends!
I lubed my Z axis screw recently, and this started happening to me..... I wouldn't see it as a problem really unless you lost power during a print and needed to resume the print. If the Z axis dropped, i don't think the print would be able to continue because from what I've seen Marlin will only home the X, and Y axis but try to print with the Z axis wherever it happens to be.
What fam shroud and extruder are you using?
I personally like using POM nuts for my z-axis. They're very smooth and have practically zero backlash
Thanks Bryan, they were a pain to fit!
What really sucks is you cannot install Tr8x2 lead screws on Ender 3 to increase esteps and better layer accuracy. Yet to find an anti-backlash nut with the design to fit the Z carriage. Just different manufacturers churning out Tr8x8's, brass or pom!
Would this help to mitigate elephants foot?
I lost one of the little washers can I still install it without if not where can I buy one??
Another good tip is to put a BB or small ball bearing into the motor coupler hole before putting your lead screw back in. This will give it some spacing and allow it to line up better. This works best if you have a lead screw guide with a 608 bearing on the end of your lead screw attached to the frame.
Will these work on the S1 pro as well?
Bryan if you have dual axis to you fit anti back lash nuts to both of them or just one side?
Not Bryan and also two weeks late but I did on my printer when I upgraded to twin screws.
Glue stick on the top of the bracket. stick the washers to it then screw it in...much easier
Great Video Bryan! Still undecided about the new Lockdown hairstyle..... :-)
I wasn't sure about it at first, but over time, it's grown on me. 😂
Thanks DAD
😂You're quite welcome!
That is a very logical solution Bryan.I wanted to add some heavier fans to my ender 3v2 so I suppose I will give this a try too.Thanks for the video
I feel like it'll put addition pressure, therefore friction, on the rod threads. Curious to see the longivity of this fix. Thanks for the video!
it's brass... you ever seen a key worn out from being used too much? keys are brass, they self lubricate
@@schlomoshekelstein908 Brass on steel threads will wear the threads. Same with all soft metal bearing applications on steel shafts or threads. The harder material wears away first due to impregnation of the soft metal bearing material. The better solution is to bin all the brass nuts and fit acetal homopolymer nuts and anti backlash adjusters. Very little friction and self lubricating to a very high degree.
@@howardosborne8647 You actually think you can wear out the brass on a 150 dollar 3d printer? How many hours of operation do you think you'd get before it's out of spec? some things in life are "good enough". I have a lathe over 120 years old with bronze bushings and babbit bearings.. No problems so far
You strike me as book learned, you have no life experience maybe?
great video first
I had this issue and then randomly this video came up in my feed....I installed the backlash nut, and while it does work, its only about 50% effective, my grantry does on a few occasions still drop. I followed you video and the same setup, but having just read your pinned comment, I wonder if the spring mounted on the bottom does make a difference.
Did you end up switching yours? I just had the same problem where I installed it and then two seconds later it dropped anyway.
@@hareboll did I switch it back to the original set up? No I’ve left the backlash nut on as it does help a little and it’s doing no harm to the printer. But it’s definitely not as effective as I’d hoped
@@robshaw4093 oh I meant if you switched the spring to the other side since he mentioned he may have had it upside down. But I agree, no harm and it helps a bit
@@hareboll no actually I didn’t but I might try that...just see if it does make a difference. I know he said it shouldn’t but never know. Did you put your in the way he said to?
@@robshaw4093 yea I just followed his video, noticed the drop and then started searching these comments. I may flip it too
INteresting video as always
Thanks for sharing :-)
Wow good idea
Will it work on ender 3 V2s, which one should I buy?
Hello I rencently got a 3d printer ender 5 s1 I’m try to do the leveling but I don’t know what happen it got stuck there
If you want to add friction to the system just tighten the roller a tiny bit.
What do you mean?
would this help me with my situation? whenever I try to change filament whenever i have multi color print and I pause at a layer height then filament change and press on the extruder release and pull the remaining filament, usually this can cause me to push down on the gantry and mess up my print when it resumes. If I install this would it stop me from having this accident? BTW+ I have the same extruder as you from SEEMECNC.
Whats the big blue screw behind the spool holder?
Hi Steffen! It is an adjustable Z end stop switch mount.: www.thingiverse.com/thing:3481597
@@BV3D Thank you!
My CR 10 has plastic spacers in between the brass lead screw, nuts and gantry. I noticed one was cracked when I install these. I’m wondering if anyone out there thinks I should keep the plastic spacers or just take them out and have the brass nuts flush with the gantry?
You forgot to lift the Z-rod a few millimeters before tightening the coupler.
Add a second lead screw to the right side of the printer. You must sync the lead screws to work together. Otherwise, the stepper motors will make an awful sound as they compete with each other for control. Dual Z-axis lead screw upgrade kits help:
1 - reduce or eliminate right side X-axis gantry sag,
2 - help square off the frame and help to keep the X-axis gantry perpendicular with frame side extrusions,
3 - help make bed-levelling easier,
4 - also stop the "drop".
All around, a sound modification. I also switched to direct drive, and replaced the bed springs for silicone mounts, which help the printer to maintain a level bed for longer periods of time. Best mods I ever made. These mods helped me to eliminate all of my E3V2 3D printer issues.
Thank you.
Is that the original power supply? What are the three switches for?
The power supply is original, but I designed a new cover for it with room for a big, slow 60mm fan, and some buck converters. One of the switches is for an overhead light bar, another is for a 5V buck converter that powers a USB port for a Raspberry Pi, and the third is for "future expansion."
@@BV3D so, you took the power supply out of it's original enclosure and placed it into what looks like a 3D printed enclosure? Do you have the STL on Thingiverse?
@@ericfabinger2083 Only the cover -- the part which holds the PSU's cooling fan -- is printed. The remainder of the PSU is the original metal shell. It is a work-in-progress, and eventually there will be a video on it. Thanks!
@@BV3D ok, looking forward to it. Thanks
@@BV3D can we have a video for that nice mod ?
Hi Bryan, can you do some more Arduino videos.
keep up the great videos.
Now the real question is can you print the anti backlash nuts?
Thank you .😊🙏
i desarm my ender 3 max i dont now how to reinstall this nut tkm ! u save my day
68 65 68... DAD... cute My binary/ascii is a little rusty but I LOVE your shirt!
I can get as far as translating from binary to hex, but then my ASCII table knowledge is pretty much gone. 👍
will this mod help on my print. the print keeps failing due to it slipping mid print on a certain z level or is that another problem?
I think you out it upside down. This still be fighting gravity and the weight of the Z axis. With the spring on top it'll help with the weight and insure it's always bottomed out. Tho the ender 3 z axis isn't exactly heavy.
I could be wrong tho I'm not an engineer
I put this on and mine still drops. I bought the Amazon version. What should I do?
Allen wrench and SET screw. Just sayin'.
Why your spool is rotated?
Installation starts at 4:45
i need the 0.0.6 firmware for Ender-3 with v4.2.7 motherboard to be customised for the Ender-3 v2 with v4.2.2 motherboard
I installed based on the video and my gantry frame keeps falling down when the stepper motors are off. Someone please help???
Smoke on the Water. Ther Fire's in the sky.
Excellent video, and as a non American thank you for not saying "go ahead and" 3000 times....
Haha! I frequently hear that in videos. I hadn't considered that it might be an Americanism. I think it's sometimes prefaced with, "Now, whatcha wanna do is..."
Anyway, you're welcome, and thanks for watching!
@@BV3D The other one is seeing if you CAN'T fix something, instead of seeing if you CAN fix it. Actually, the worst one is COULD care less, instead of COULDN'T care less... American is a weird language..... Either way, your video was very helpful and I successfully fitted my Zed (pun intended) axis anti backlash, so thank you.
Great video! But wow those backlash nuts are pricey considering they probably aren't checking for quality.. I may opt to get them from aliexpress because I need to keep cheap and neither have a seal of approval 😅
Why haven't you replied to people who have said you installed this incorrectly?
The pinned comment (and its ensuing discussion) pretty much covers my position on it. I'm literally not using it for its anti-backlash properties, I'm using it as brakes. 😉
Why is the word DAD on your T-Shirt :)
Because I have a kid. 😄
I am a bit confused and frustrated. Since I moded my Ender 3 Pro with the Microswiss hotend, and a metal extruder, I have had the gravity drop problem. Finding your video seemed like exactly what I was needing. I purchased an anti-backlash nut, one to fit my printer. Followed your video for installation, and now the drop is even worse, and I don't know why.
Any suggestions? I have re-watched the video multiple times, and I do not see anything that I did differently.
Help please.
Teşekkürler.
Do you have to adjust the Z offset after you install the anti backlash nut? I moved mine from -2.80 to -2.65.