Is it time for 3D printers to abandon bed springs?
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2024
- For a long time 3D printers relied on bed springs in each corner to level the bed and ensure a good first layer. However, most modern designs do away with them entirely. So can we safely remove them and rigidly mount the bed? In this video, I examine a range of 3D printers with and without springs to try and find an answer. I then do a before and after comparison on the Ender 3 with print tests.
0:00 Introduction
0:37 What bed springs do
1:57 Potential bed spring problems
2:19 Prusa MK3
3:37 Premium coreXY printers
Rat Rig V-core 3 build playlist: • Rat Rig V-core 3 part ...
SecKit SK-Tank build playlist: • SecKit SK-Tank coreXY ...
4:47 Creality CR-10 Smart
CR-10 Smart review video: • Why the Creality CR-10...
6:03 Creality CR-10 Max
TH3D solid bed mounts: www.th3dstudio.com/product/th...
7:00 Bambu Lab X1C / P1P
Manual bed levelling Bambu Lab wiki: wiki.bambulab.com/en/x1/manua...
8:49 Creality Ender 3 - Before and after
Z banding test tower: www.printables.com/model/3936...
12:10 Summary and tips
13:26 Conclusion
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Nobody talks about bed vibration. But using silicon spacers instead of springs will dampen vibration.
good point, makes a lot of sense
yes and no. hard mounts will transfer MORE noise to the printer not less. Springs will "dampen" the noise transfer. its just a "different kind" of noise.
Springs allow the print and bed itself to "create noise" when they jiggle if not installed right or if they are just too heavy. Hard mounts allow noise from OFF the bed to be transferred to the bed and thereby your print.
but a good smooth tight machine can reduce this.
@@nerys71 silicon spacers aren't hard mounts, they're a spring damper system all in one.
@John Long damper, in this case, means to reduce vibrations. Not make more damp.
@@nerys71 Dampening is a different topic than just spring suspension. If we were to take theory books to the face (and only 1st chapters at that), a perfect spring alone would ring forever without any stopping force. Obviously not the case, but it IS why dampers are added to car suspensions, on a print bed the springs will also just ring until naturally dissipating that energy.
A silicone spacer tho is different, as it's a viscoelastic material. It's properties change with the rate of motion, effectively being a damper by itself, instead of just a spring.
This means, in theory and practice, that the silicone spacers will make it stop ringing faster than a spring system.
A rigid mount would also work as a spring system by the way, just the spring stiffness is FAR higher, effectively the bed frame's flexibility becomes the spring.
One benefit of springs I haven't seen mentioned yet is that it is giving some minor vertical play under high force to the bed means which means that if you mess up your auto bed leveling, Z offset, or Z endstop positions and accidentally crash your nozzle into the bed, the bed will give way and thus you're likely to cause less damage to your nozzle, print head, and the print surface. I know I've messed this up and it's saved me multiple times. I still use stiff yellow springs on my custom HEVO CoreXY that uses a fairly basic heated print bed with a PEI coated spring steel sheet.
I think this is really the *only* benefit of springs. Everything mentioned, there are better, easier solutions to.
The reason springs aren't used as much now is because we have ABL, because that prevents the nozzle from hitting the bed, not just giving better quality prints.
There are a lot of disadvantages by using springs. Really what you want is a way to prevent the head from pressing into the bed too hard. Springs are just the easiest way to do that. Though the bed moving means that you are more likely to have failed prints.
It is a tradeoff. Do you want to take the risk you will need to replace the bed or are you willing to take a quality hit?
@@SirSpence99 "There are a lot of disadvantages by using springs. "
Like what though? Name some actual problems that are solved by removing the springs.
@@vinny142 Let me answer your question with a question. How much do you think your bed flexes when you put weight on a corner if you are using springs?
Nah it doesn't... Springs don't save your build plate this is a total myth. I've had it noise dive both ways.. doesn't save your build plate it's still the same force downward focused on that tip.
There is workaround about that. Overload protection, like on CNC machines if it crashes.
I used to use the yellow springs with my Ender 3 v2 and didn't really like the results, but since I switched to silicone spacers, I've loved the consistent results.
Are you using abl?
Well, here I gave silicon pads as spring replacement a try. And I must confess those were particularly efficient as they maintain the bed firmly in any direction while allowing adjustments by compressing them. They do not damage PCB or silicon heating pads and provide a good thermal insulation between the structure by the way.
Silicone pads, I'm assuming you mean. Silicon is a hard brittle material used for making microchips. Silicone is an artificial polymer.
@@falxonPSN Thanks professor.
Two Ender 3s running stiffer than stock springs with an ABL. Working well enough. Very interesting to see the Bambu printers using springs for fine adjustment. Wouldn't have guessed that. Still love the thick bed and three motor systems a lot. Feels like the most robust solution.
I’ve been using those silicone spring cylinder things on my Ender for a couple years now and they seem to stay more consistent than the springs it came with or the stiffer ones I originally replaced the stock ones with.
The larger diameter offers a more even distribution of the evenness and stability of the bed plate in comparison to the y axis plate. (Think of supporting a deck with 4x4 vs 2x2 lumber)
Additionally they are more rigid, or like you said "stiff", and that helps decrease the likelihood that they will hold their position longer than springs(don't have to re-adjust as often)
I love these as an upgrade, they also have the benefit of having some grip on both surfaces which means they're less likely to get jostled out of tram. I recommend doing this upgrade first thing on any ender 3 style printer!
As opposed to a spring they're also a spring damper system. A lot less ringing potential.
The one issue I found is that you need give 5 minutes or with the bed hot between rounds of bed leveling. It lets them stabilize. But I too have been loving the upgrade.
I’ve had the same experience! Best $5 upgrade for these style printers
I went down the rigid mount and ABL route a while ago after I got sick of having to level the bed so often. Rather than standoffs I sandwiched the carriage with nuts, so getting it as level as possible the first time way a huge PITA. I've never regretted it though; it's so nice to be able to just send a print to the printer and know that the first layer is going to be perfect every time. Just preheat, clear the dribble, press print and walk away.
Did you use like, a stack of nuts so it's like spacers, or did you use a nut to block the screw up top, then a nut underneath to block with the hand turning nuts? I see this is quite the interesting idea and I may just end up doing this at the workplace's Ender 3, that thing gets out of level on it's own just cause it wants... Seems like quite the happy middle ground between adjustable and rigid.
One thing I did for my ender 3 that drastically cut down on bed slop and improved my layer stacking was to put washers and nuts at the top of the bed adjustment screws, rigidly attaching the screws to the bed. The screws as they are are just in loose countersunk holes, and then held at the bottom by the adjusting wheels. When the frame the bed is mounted to moves back or forwards, especially at higher acceleration rates, inertia momentarily keeps the bed stationary and the screws tilt off vertical. Tilted bolts are effectively shorter than straight ones, so that pulls the bed downward till it catches up. A washer and nut threaded all the way up against the bottom side of the bed pulls the screw tightly into the countersink on the bed surface, preventing it from tilting. Incidentally, I also use a three point tramming frame, as it just makes more sense to me than trying to tram with four adjustment points. That also allowed me to separate the support for the bed heater cord from the adjustment mechanism: I've found that the additional thickness of the heater cord support requires substantially more tension than the others to pull it down to the same level. As you found, equalizing that tension required adding washers to all the other screws.
Thanks for the video! To avoid more wobble on the machine, I place my 3d printer on a concrete slab from the hardware store and underneath the slab is some closed cell packing foam. It removes quite a bit of the vibration.
I have a Ender 5. Originally upgraded to the yellow thick spring after a few months of use. Already made a big difference and I did not needed to level the bed often. Then last year (about 3years later) I switch to Silicone spacers/bushings. I had to level the bed last month for the first time. And only cause I upgraded the a different hotend and added a CR touch. I would 10 out of 10 recommend silicon spacers as I believe they do damp some vibrations as well.
Thank you for this. The bed on my CR-10S was soooo wobbly. I replaced the springs with nylon spacers, and it's been wonderful ever since!
when i got my prusa mk3, the rigid bed and abl experience was like the coming of the 3d printing messiah. it instantly cured all the problems i was having with first layer adhesion. i've been an ABL and no springs zealot ever since.
Right? It was amazing. My mk3s+ is still killing it, with hardly any maintenance or tweaking, to this day. That’s the difference, no fiddling about with stoppers and knobs like on my og Ender machine.
I gave up on springs a long time ago. I fixed the screws in the bed with nuts and washers. And printed two regulators with nuts for each corner. It's a little more difficult to adjust, but it works really well for me. Additionally, I set the manual calibration of the bed to 16 points, because the fiberglass table is crooked (±0.05mm). And I don't calibrate the bed for months, only when I completely disassemble it.
That's a very valid point that he did not cover. A simple washer a nut to secure the bed bolt to the build plate. Cost under $1.
I did this years ago and have never adjusted since
Been considering this for a while and seeing this pushed me to do it, I used nylon shims and fibrous washers. So glad I did not only had it stabilised the bed but it no longer drifts so no constant relevelling. Print quality has noticeably improved.
Removed mine over a year ago had no problems with it. Fully adjustable.
Very rare to have problems.
It's a Converted Anet A8 it was made of ply now metal.
Thanks for your continued interesting information.
Always a good watch. Thanks for another video!
Fascinating indeed! Thanks, Michael! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
You could also remove the springs and use the wheels for height adjustments by putting them where the springs used to be. When you are satisfied with the adjustments, you could counter it on the other side with a nut.
I did something very similar to this to great effect. If the level changes, it's now because the printer is falling apart.
Big +1
Been doing this same thing for a few years now. I don't use ABL either. I've tried to explain this to some people and they seem to not get it. But my bed never needs adjustment.
you SOB. that's a freaking genius idea! hard mounted but still adjustable. especially if you drill out and use "thicker" bolts like M4 or M6 even. bolt and NUT to the platten. then one wheel above one below the carriage plate. loose below make your adjustments tighten below to lock into place. THAT is smart!!!
I also think there should be a nut right underneath the bed to give the screw less ability to wobble.
@@SianaGearz Yes I mentioned that nut and bolt to the bed that makes the boat rigid and unmoving the to adjustment knobs would be on either side of the carriage plate
On my old Tevo Taranula, I have a 3-point spring leveling system that is super stiff. The bed rides on 2 extra wide extrusions with V-groove rollers. I haven't touched those spring knobs in years. I'm glad to see how things evolve with the market.
I switched from springs to silicone spacers. Holds level better and suffers much less from vibration. Also added a lock nut to stop the wheels from lossening over time. Has helped so much over the original bed springs.
Great video. Thank you.
My Ender 3 is still using bed springs. I put stiffer ones on from stock and that made a world of difference on the quality. I almost say that it prints better than my MK3S (with a 32 bit board, Revo CR, BLTouch, and a dual gear extruder).
I've just gone back to stiff springs in my biggest printers (Anycubic Chiron and Max) which had helped greatly! This is with the ABL system, using the bed_screws_adjust Klipper function. It had enabled me to have much better consistent first layers, with the ABL further removing any inconsistencies.
The above AND the Klipper macro of bed mesh leveling only the printable area for the model being printed has been fantastic! I struggled with a long time getting good first layers, especially with the Max that had the fixed spacers under the bed, but the mounting was terrible from factory.
Very happy with the springs for now.
This is cool to see. I removed my springs last year after I read an article online. Now I have the bed attached with two washers and two butterfly nuts, that way I can regulate the height super easily but it stays tight
I haven't used a spring for a long time, I use self-made rubber rings from industrial rubber.
that kind of rubber can withstand the temperature variations well.
it is also very stiff so that you do not suffer from after vibrations.
I haven't had to level manually in a very long time.
Healthy and Kind Regards to all!
Rob
Rob do you have any more info on the rubber you used? Thank you sir
@@CerealKiller187
hello Billy,
what I can tell is that it was reinforced rubber ( the rubber comes from a shipyard! )
(then there is gauze in the middle of a tough kind of wire)
(gauze other name, a kind of net, fishing net but very fine wire)
the thickness of that rubber was 5MM and I used 2 rubbers per side.
( 2 X 5MM = 10MM high Rubber on one side! so you need eight(8) of these )
i drilled a hole in the rubber for the bolt and then with a -
hollow pipe 10MM knocked out the ring.
I hope this is enough information for you?
Healthy and Friendly Greetings from the Netherlands!
Rob
I've worked with large, flat mirrors various in optical systems.
Precisely held angles, no drift over time despite environmental vibration and extreme swings in temperature.
All the things you'd want in a printer-bed, right?
No permanently installed 'adjustment springs'.
Springs are very useful for initial setup, but don't leave them in!
When the mirror/print-bed is 'just right', lose the springs and install 'jam-nuts'.
These lock the support adjustments, preventing the need to re-re-re-re-level your print-bed.
Not every printer works with this: you need a fairly flat bed, no mesh-leveling!
I've not adjusted bed-level (Anycubic Mega X) in over 120 prints; perfect first layers every time.
Yes, I've applied offsets (M206 in G-code) for printing on blue-tape; allow 0.12 mm!
If you have a bed with significant temperature-dependent warp, like the Anycubic Chiron, this approach helps, but you still gotta use mesh-leveling for the first print in a printing-marathon.
Keeping the bed at the 'first print' temperature prevents the need to re-level!
Springs give the user the illusion of fine control, but they introduce so many 'loose variables' that they aren't worth the long-term headaches.
BTW, many printers have a 'carrier-plate' that supports the print-bed.
Check to make sure this plate (bed mounted to plate by leveling screws, plate supported by Y-axis roller-bearings) isn't getting hot during a print-job!
Aluminum has a rather large response to heating and cooling: the carrier-plate on my Mega X can rise or lower by 1.2 millimeter with a 30 degree Celsius change in temperature!
Heated beds heat up everything in their immediate area; metals expand, tolerances drift, nozzle crashes into the bed, or misses it entirely!
A small fan, blowing air under the print-bed, prevents carrier-plate from heating and warping.
Fixing just 'one thing' doesn't fix the problem; you gotta make careful observations of the entire system.
Too often, we get advice that says 'Do this!', but it lacks context.
I run a farm with 9 Artillery Sidewinder x2's, and did away with my bed springs almost 2 years ago. I switched to silicon spacers, and haven't regretted the switch once. I am now able to achieve speeds of production quality prints of over 150mm/s consistently, and I attribute a lot of that to the stability of the bed. I also find that the bed leveling (abl running unified bed leveling in Marlin) is much more consistent and stable throughout the year. I highly recommend the upgrade to those on the fence about it.
what silicone spacers do you use? a link to them?
I used those nylon spacers you showed to get the springs to be much more compact. I opted to keep them so I could get the bed as flat as possible, but your idea of adding washers to compensate instead might be something I could try. Cool idea
I have an ENDER 3, it came with the springs and knobs. I took them off, replacing them with long countersink machine screw, nuts, lock washers and flat washers. I leveled the bed and tightened up all the nuts. It's been WELL OVER A YEAR since then and I haven't had to level the bed since. I honestly believe I'll never have to level the bed again.
After fitting a BL Touch to my Ender 5 I did a lot of careful measurement and then machined four spacers to specific lengths to bring those points all to the same distance off the nozzle within a few thou. The BLT now only has to deal with imperfections in the surface rather than worrying about having a print that doesn't have edges perpendicular to the base.
I use a set of silicone bushings instead of springs for mine and have noted great improvement to stiffness while still providing the adjustment I need for my slight bed warping.
I'm about to build up 2 fresh Ender 3 Pros I got a smoking deal on, I plan to start w/ Stiffer springs and my prior printer didnt have them and bed leveling (trammeling) has been a nightmare, got a set for it too, once the new printers are up n running. Thanks for all the 3d printing videos you make, they are most helpful!
I’m still using springs, but think I might do spacers. Thanks for the video.
2 of my printers have springs and always will, for 2 main reasons 1) They don’t have ABL and I don’t plan on ever adding, 2) I’ve never had a problem after the manual leveling with print quality. My 3rd printer is a delta and came with a rigid mount bed and ABL, so will obviously stay that way 😊.
I'm still fairly new to 3D printers. The last few times I've re-trammed mine I just visually looked at the nozzle tip and its reflection on the bed surface up close, partially because this Garolite sheet I bought itself doesn't like to lay quite flat on the heat bed. I put the high spots of the sheet to the corners, and set them to just barely not kiss the surface. Then the center distance looks about right compared to the glass plate. Haven't had a problem so far with that technique, and the parts come off easier than with the textured glass plate the printer came with. I don't find manual leveling to be difficult, nor time consuming. Usually it holds well unless I moved the machine around. If the springs seem loose on a machine, I'd simply suggest adjusting the Z-axis zeroing switch down lower a bit on the frame (which I had to do anyways, this Garolite is much thinner than the glass plate), a millimeter or two, tighten the springs to near maximum, then re-tram the bed.
Thanks for the memories. I started with Ender 5 printers - springs then the TH3D rubber spacers. Since I no longer have any Creality printers, just a couple of Rat Rigs and two Bambu. I forgot how to level the bed manually
Never thought I'd ever say this but... "Bed springs... who needs 'em?"
Recently I picked up an Anycubic Kobra Neo through an Amazon discount, because I thought it would be nice to have a spare around if I need to run a print while my main printer is busy. This made me really nervous because this was going to be my first springless 3D printer, relying entirely on ABL for getting proper first layer Z height. But once I did some basic adjustments (squaring the print bed, making sure the rollers were snug, etc.) I have to say... it works amazingly well. I don't even hve to run ABL before each print, I just ran the ABL procedure once and read it from memory when I start a print. And it works amazingly well. In fact the only time I had to re-level was when I had to move the printer while reorganizing my workspace. It's working so well that I'm now considering outfitting my main printer with a BLTouch and switching to springless bed mounts.
You seemed to miss the best option: silicone spacers.
Whether you have an Ender3 or MK3S+, replace the factory option with the silicone spacer mod. There are OctoPrint plugins to help with the bed leveling, and people are getting beds level to within 0.014mm, which is extremely flat.
Should cover this mod, as it's the best. A few guides out there on it, I'm using the 10mm version made from 3mm ID 7mm OD high temp silicone tubing, as used in automotive, on an MK3S+.
You can even purchase silicone spacer replacements for an Ender 3 for cheap, as the one spacer has to be shorter than the other three.
Would you mind to share the plugin you use? :)
I replaced my Ender 3 (original) springs with stiffer springs a couple of years ago. I also added 3D-printed spring caps that lock the spring in a vertical position and remove the side-to-side movement of the spring around the machine screw. Finally, I added Nilock nuts under the bed to help further limit bolt movement. The bed was adjusted to get the best overall level, and with ABL, and a magentic PEI sheet, it just doesn't move. The bed is solid, but springs still allow a safety factor should the head accidentally be driven into the bed. Thank you for this information, it was very informative and helpful as I have also recently considered removing the springs to see if might improve the resonance wall. You showed a super result!.
Interesting choice of video at this late date. I removed my springs when I added EZABL to my Ender3 4 years ago. My first printer was a Prusa in 2017 so springs were novel to me with the Ender and were quickly eliminated.
On cheap printers, the "bend the bed flat with screws and silicone tubing" mod really works quite well. Even with only 5 screws to work with, it made a huge difference on my SV06. I think it should be the new standard.
What is this?
I cant find anything about this online
@@ItsBoyRed google "silicone bed level mod prusa"
I'm already looking at buying silicone pads but this video further Incentivise me into buying it now
I've never understood why it's a thing anyway. I swapped them for lock nuts after about the fiftieth time leveling the bed. I'm sure there's a better way but it solved my problems.
Thanks!
Still using bed springs on my Anycubic Mega Pro. I have switched from a glass bed to spring steel coated with PEI however which has performed much better for me and makes the removal so much easier.
Muy buena información, voy a probar reemplazar los resortes ya que noto el movimiento
There is one other benefit to springs that has not been mentioned - it provides a mechanism for pressure release if the nozzle is in flat contact with a flat smooth texture bed (like plain glass). Textured surfaces get away with this because there will never be an hermetic seal with the nozzle so there will always be some route for extruded plastic to ooze out and prevent excessive build-up of pressure in the nozzle that, over time, can cause the PTFE to back up and result in excessive stringing and/or extrusion problems.
Having the bed mounted on springs at least allows the bed to move away from the nozzle in that situation - there is still a rise in pressure but not as much. Furthermore, as others have said, the real issue is not the springs but the screws vibrating loose over time. It is for both those reasons that I abandoned the stiff yellow springs and went back to my original Ender 3 springs (less force, so less back pressure in the nozzle) and fixed my screws in place with antivibration mountings to prevent them working loose. I do not use BL Touch or other bed leveller and since I made the modification I never needed to re-level / re-tram my bed, no matter how many prints I make, unless I change the nozzle.
Chopped your bed springs. Marty and Moog would be proud!
Ender 3 v1 here, and I've ditched the springs for the silicone bed mounts. I use a CR-Touch and a 9x9 mesh. I've also installed a cast bed plate and so far it's all working very well. Don't miss the springs at all.
I compress the springs as far as they will go, then back them off one turn. Then I find the lowest corner and lower the other three to match it. The more pressure, the less chance of the bed moving or vibrating.
I also use Loctite. If you have adjusters it’s a must! Between heating and cooling causing expansion and contraction, and vibrations, the adjusters will definitely move if you don’t use thread locker on them!
I have a CR-10S5 that has basically been mothballed because the enormous bed makes it practically unusable unless you want to print at insanely low speeds. One of the first mods I did to it was install a BL-Touch and swap the springs for metal standoffs. The result was really interesting - because you're removing the shock absorption of the bed sloshing around on the spring-loaded standoffs and transferring that momentum into the Y-axis metal frame, all that force gets loaded on to the Y-axis belt (already a super beefy 12mm 2GT belt). The factory belts were too elastic for that, so I switched them for 11mm Gates 2GT belts which didn't show much deformation after highspeed footage analysis, but of course the force travels on to the pulley on the Y-axis stepper. Ultimately, because any play along that chain from the stepper pulley to the bed itself had been mitigated, the 72mm NEMA stepper couldn't handle it, and would routinely lose steps at any print speeds higher than 25mm/s^2 @ 600mm/s^2 acc.
I wanted to then get a NEMA 8 to replace the Y-axis motor, but then the shock transfers directly into the frame, meaning an absolutely enormous amount of 2040 and 2020 needs to be reinforced. After that, finally, all the remaining mitigated force of the bed moving would be transferred to the base of the printer, and then to whatever it sits on once it's strapped down... total monster of a project, so I dropped it and parted it out. Now I have a 300mm Voron 2.4R2, and I will never buy a bedslinger again :D
That's not to say that springs can't be eliminated from smaller printers, but at the extreme end, all that energy has to go somewhere... and it may end up having a worse impact on print quality.
On my printer i use a rigid mount.
Right below the bed, the screws are tightened by nuts to keep them vertical or at least not wobbling side to side.
Then above and below the carrier, i have thin thumb wheels the thickness of a nut, with a nut embedded inside. I can adjust and tighten them down from both sides around the carrier, acting as jamnuts.
When i first installed the rigid mount, i had a mechanical failure of my probe and the nozzle rammed into the glass so hard that it broke it :D It first seemed to be intact, but when i raised the nozzle, that moment the glass chose to shatter into a bunch of pieces. That was funny, but i made 5 new glass beds from a 6€ IKEA FREBRO mirror.
I was surprised when I got my Elegoo neptune 3 pro and it didnt have springs, or anyway to manually level it, but its very rigid and the auto-leveling works great. Super happy with it.
I'm still rocking springs but I'm also new (2 months) to this hobby.
Guess I've always been lucky; as a 3D printing noob I installed some stronger yellow springs on a new Ender 3 V2, added a BL Touch, and have always had really consistent first layers. Granted I don't push the printer particularly fast, but it's always worked well for me.
I have Prusa Mk3 and "nylock nuts" (to be able to adjust the bed level) was the best upgrade I did on this machine.
Agreed. I had terrible first layers before doing the nylock nut method. It was an absolute must.
I made 4 cylinders with flexible filament. Works perfect.
been using CR-6 since release , i was on the kickstarter ... that machine has never failed me ... not ONCE , and i still use it till this day . its the only 3d printer i recommend to someone who dont wanna thinker too much / troubleshoot . it just prints
Love the chopped T-shirt!
My printer started out as an Ender 3 Pro, but I have upgraded so many things on it there are not many original parts left anymore. It now has a 400x400 bed on linear rails that is rigidly mounted, no adjustment at all. I let my BL Touch run a 25 point probe before each print and always get perfect results. It does seem annoying at times how long it takes to run, but when I think about how many hours most prints are, it is really not much of a difference.
One of the 1st things I did to my e3p was to replace the springs with silicone buffers. Still allowed for a little tuning but not as much play as springs
I switched to silicone buffer a long time ago and I really don't regret it, all or almost 98% of the print, the 1st layer is perfect.
I have a Folgertech FT-5 (purchased about 6yrs ago) and upgraded it with stiffer springs within the first year. BLT touch is installed, of course.
For ender 3 variants, I'm using solid plastic spacers from furniture industry. With 5x5 point mesh + glass bed, I never looked back.
have you tried G10 sheets ? they can work just as effective as flat bed but much lighter weight + better prints adhesion / release. I'm using 2mm thick one and its much better than glass so far.
@@duchnguyen2735 I made ultra light bed carrier + under table from laser cut aluminium. So weight is not my problem anymore. I recommend this to everyone.
@@duchnguyen2735 I'd recommend FR4 instead. High-temp printing will affect G10
@@WhenDoesTheVideoActuallyStartfr4 bed with ac heating is gold standard for hi temp printing. Agreed 👍👍👍
@@duchnguyen2735 Have you tried PEI sheets? Much better than glass and very easy part removal. FR4 is not flexible.
Great subject! We need ender 3 kits!!!
Shifts due to momentum, or lack thereof is why I'd say bed riser type printers (what I call them) like the Bambu Lab printers can get away with springs. Being that there is no horizontal movements of the bed, there is no momentum issues during direction changes so no wobble issue from the bed, any "wobble" will be strictly a function of machine rigidity. Since spring are better suited for getting a good initial bed Tram (bed level), it makes sense to use springs in something like that.
On a bed slinger type printer, there is the potential issue of shifts along the Y axis due to momentum during motion changes. The faster you print and the higher your accelerations are, more the problem becomes evident.
On my bed slinger printer (older Ender 3 that's had some upgrades), I've gone to rigid mounting and ABL. To make the initial bed Tramming a relatively quick and painless process, I made a mount that attaches in place of the hot end to mount a dial indicator and just mount the bed to the base place with the spacers I chose then move to where the dial indicator is over each of the mount points and note the reading on the dial indicator, find the highest point of the 4 points then do the math to find the shims needed for each of the other 3 points to bring them to the same height as that highest one and done, not guess work or anything.
Oh, and being an machinist by trade and having seen first hand over the years, the distortion effects from thermal expansion and contraction, I should note that if doing any sort of rigid mounting, tramming measurements should be done with the bed heated to whatever your most common bed printing temp is and during both initial mounting for measuring and remounting with shims, the bed screws should be loose and only tightened once the bed is up to temp and stabilized, then readings taken and the same thing when you shim the low corners, leave them loose, heat the bed and let it stabilize and then tighten them down. The reason for this is when rigidly mounted, thermal expansion will induce distortion if the plate (bed) is not free to expand along the horizontal plane. The original spring setup allows for the small horizontal plane growth due to thermal expansion so distortion is less likely and even if it does occur, it will be to a lower magnitude. Now granted, ABL should be able to compensate for any distortion as it is pretty minimal from my testing but the less the controller has to compensate, the better and its not like it's any sort of painstaking process to do since you have to tighten the bed down regardless, its just a change of "when" you tighten down, so why not do it in the way that will give you the best results possible....
Only my creality cr10s pro v1 has required this. Those yellow springs get significantly weaker after a few hundred hours of printing. The z stacking issue has always been extruder related for me as a few hot pulls or a new nozzle always fixes it. Even my old i3 had more consistency for longer though I did use a few washers to put more tension on the springs.
Great vid mate as usual.
I removed the springs off of my CR10s years ago and put solid mounts and the TH3D EZabl and it works fine. However, on my Hypercube 445, I had to keep the springs but in doing so I now have a leveled bed with a .298 variance, and it uses a BLTouch, too.
currently completely overhauling an old PROTOS V3 (old ass bedslinger) printer i got for free, am currently in the process of putting a Stealthburner toolhead with Unklicky on it, and this video made me decide to delete the Springs after i have the ABL running ;)
On 7:12 you have a castle tower, I would like to print that same piece. Where could I find the files for that? I just got into 3D printing and working on fine tuning of my ender. Your vids are really helpfull!
I’ve been using orange silicone spring cylinders on my Ender 3 and they're working like a charm with a CR-touch probe, I level my bed once every 8 to 10 prints so I love them.
Adjusting every 8 to 10 prints? That's a lot of maintanance my dear friend.
The point of this video is to not have to adjust it again for many months if not years.
@@alejandroperez5368realistically think about this and wonder if its ever been documented as being achieved after a multi year long trial likely as long as the duration 3d printing had been mainstream up to the present
My Ender 3V2 seems to have a pretty tight bed--I did upgrade the springs shortly after purchase. I think I'll be keeping them for the time being, especially since my added BL Touch and a second z-axis stepper/lead screw have also been trouble free.
I have a 2018 vintage Ender 3 with stock bed springs and no auto bed leveling system. Amazingly enough, I have always been able to achieve really good first layers using the 'ol paper and hot end shift method using the 4 corners of the main print area as index points. Once set, I can usually print a dozen prints before having to level again. In the interests of keeping up with the Joneses, I bought a kit that allows me the option of changing to either the stiffer yellow spring or silicone columns. Several UA-cam videos later, I have elected to go straight to the silicone. I'll let you know how it goes.
It's not the Spring that keeps the bed parallel or level!!! It's the screws that do the job. The Spring takes out the backlash.😉😁
I still have the stock springs on my CR-10S after many years. I don't have an auto level device installed.
When I had trouble with the bed staying level, it ended up that the v-rollers had loosened on the y axis, so the bed wobbled while printing.
After readjusting the rollers, I have not had to level the bed again in about 18 months.
Springs are fine on a small cantilevered bed like the v0. On a sub 200mm bed, manual bed leveling makes more sense. For a larger printer, it makes more sense to either have a motion system that allows auto bed leveling or a mesh to compensate for any tilt.
I remover the springs from my Ender 3 Pro about a week later for silicone and nylon washers ...I now only have a auto routine now I starts up heats the bed to 60 c runs abl probe stores mesh to memory ..After that I just call the mesh from memory and print ...At beginning of print homes machine heats up prints..EASY....NO repeated probing at beginning of print. I found printer works great with this setup..
Still on springs here, but i did put nuts on the bottom side of the print bed to make it all stiff sideways instead of being wobbly.
Stiff springs on my Ender 5 made it so I rarely ever have to adjust the bed to re-level. Maybe once every 1-2 rolls of filament and normally it’s just because I start to notice a little elephant footing. Which if I’m feeling lazy I just tweak a bit here and there rather than go through the whole process and so it’s been probably 6 months since the last time I redid the whole leveling process.
I have 3 3D printers, a Tevo Tornado, a Tevo Michelangelo, and a Sovol SV04. The Tornado and the SV04 have ABL and I replaced the springs with silicon spacers and washers for trim. They have been very stable for a long time. The Michelangelo still has springs because the bed is so small it doesn't vary much and I rarely have to adjust it.
nice one thanks, i find that if i adjust the knob for the spring to not be on the end of the spring that there's less bed wobble so tighten up that spring a bit.
I have used my CR-10 Smart to print the washers itself to the thicknes needed in the 16 point grid of the spacers.
Well-Done
I love my springs. And I have Bltouch. Still helps sometimes.
You really did it the hard way, silicone buffer block hold the bed firm and they don't need constant readjustment like springs.
On older printers, the springs also helped prevent mid-print object detachments and layer misalignments caused by the print head passing over and catching on warped overhangs due to poor cooling.
I've been using nylon spacers on my Geeetech A20M for over a year now, but you have to really be on point with your Z endstops
My Ender 3 Pro kept having issues with bed levelling. I did everything I could think of, even getting a CR Touch to try and help. Turns out, the springs and wheels for the bed levelling were the issue in the end. The wheels would vibrate loose because the threads for the insert were slightly bigger than the threads on the bolts holding the bed to the frame, and the springs were contributing to the bed wheels loosening. I removed the wheels and springs, installed solid 3D printed spacers, and used proper sized nuts to tighten down the bed. Print quality has improved enough that I can now actually print things like the crystal flexi dragon model and not have an issue because the z wobble would cause the parts to fuse together.
2 E3V2's I assembled from junked out Aquila's and using Creality 427 boards. I had changed to Silicon but still found I had to tram the bed quite often, even when I had it quite tight. I think this is from the tightening wheels moving. I took spacers and and locked them to the print bed with nuts, then placed washers and nuts, before the bed mount. Then I used the wheel to tighten the screws hard to the Bed mount, and using the nuts on top side to make adjustments then locked it down hard. This way it's still easy to tram the corners, but locks the bed tight. I was able to get all 4 corners to 0. It's hasn't moved since.
I upgraded the bed springs on my Ender 5 to the stiffer ones and i tightened them up so they are almost fully compressed. I haven't adjusted the bed for a long time.
doing this to my cr10 s5 for sure that thing is a menace to level and may as well to my tricked out ender
With my Ender 5 Plus, I changed from springs to silicon cylinders. I found that they soon changed their elastic properties and changed back to springs. I did install anti- backlash springs on the twin Z- screws. This, I found had much more success in preventing bed wobbling and bed leveling issues. Even though I have a BLTouch I prefer to use a vernier calipers resting on the bed and the four corners of the guide bracket. Using this method I can level the glass bed's four corners within .0508mm (.002 in). I can hold the flat bed to within close tolerances with the springs for several prints; only making a quick check with the calipers. Using this method has produced, not only great bed leveling, but great bed adhesion, as well.
good videos thank you, My 10s Pro V1 has many upgrades. I am so disappointed in the speed limitations. My bed has springs and they are pretty compressed. I want to print a carbon fiber frame to reduce the aluminum plate weight then a Garolite sheet with no alum plate. I think ditching the spring would be great if I can rework the while bed system and get so ight the speed is better. any ideas. I loved the vibration sensor idea and want to do that too. Real time monitor and closed loop control yes!
Hello!
Just wondering if you have any thoughts on a system like 3D Chameleon that does a 4 to 1 filament to nozzle for multi color/material printing on something like an ender 3? Thinking about getting one but seems theres not a lot of 3rd party info on it when considering the cost
With slight modification I use the springs more as bed flatteners then traditional bed levelers. I found that replacing the springs with the stiffest one can find works like the bushings here but also allow for a much easier way to flatten the bed. The stiff springs need to be under fairly high tension which is almost as rigid as the bushings. I found cube printers with 9 bed screws works best as there is no sacrifice with adding a stiffener under the bed to aid in pushing/pulling the bed flat. Bedslingers really have no way to add a stiffener layer as it will add weight to the bed.
To calibrate I simple test the 4 corners of the bed very near the screws to set the level of the 4 corners then use a long ruler and a flashlight to closely set the 5 other tensioners on x and y axis. Then a final bed level and quick adjustment or 2 and you have a perfectly flat bed.
Washers and shims would work but crazy fiddly to do and your flatness is limited to the tolerance of your washers.
I’ve been using those orange solid spring replacers for about 10 months. Since I installed BLTouch I figured why need springs that need adjustments too often
I have a Creality Ender 3 S1 Pro, and it has springs.
They are a pain to deal with, but I only have to mess with it every once in a while. The bed is really solidly mounted, so there isn't much play in it. It's also usually pretty obvious when something isn't leveled right. You'll definitely see it in the print.
Hello! I kept the springs under my TT Bluer, but I almost fully tightened them, and from there I only released that that was necessary. Big help was a genuine BLTouch and the firmware's built in tilt-screw calibration tool. However after tightening the screws as much as posible the ABL bed mesh showed a more agressive warp (the center of the bed went up, sides went down) due to the thermal expansion and less compliant mounting, but the delta-Z is only around 0,25mm and with the mesh compensation (and well calibratez Z offset from the probe) I've never had issue with the 1st layer. :)
YES
I still use bed springs on my SWX1's, but I may try to do this. Maybe have a lock nut above the rail mount and then the tension knob below? Leaves room for adjustment if needed, but removes the possibility of spring fatigue.
Thank God bed springs are a thing of the past. I removed the springs from my CR10, and my FLSUN Super Racer doesn't have them.
bambu's piezo leveling is the way. i hope more printers do it in the future.