I love the trick in his language. He promises to never use the crown to dominate a Mortal. That's because he'll use it to dominate all the Devil's and Demon's in the Nine Hells. He claims after creating his Kingdom that they will stay within their own borders. He never said "What" he considers his kingdom, meaning after the Nine Hells if he see's every other world or realm as rightfully his then it's not an invasion.
Also, dominating mortals directly may be tricky because he'd have to create a system that preserves the souls needed to run the Nine Hells AND also be sneaky because while his conquest of the Nine Hells is likely to cause Asmodeus to go "nu-uh" on him, conquering other Planes will have the Gods raise an eyebrow as well, since they too need mortal souls to justify their power. So yeah, I love his use of words in general. He says "a mortal", not millions of them, and he says "within its borders" without clarifying WHAT the borders are exactly. He is so delightfully devious, I love him. I trust him more than I trust the Emperor however, because he's more transparent from the start despite his devilish ways, AND I do trust Asmodeus to take a step and put him in his place - in the lore, Asmodeus may be one of the Primodial serpents, so much more powerful than he lets on, and meta-wise the Biblical battle between Raphael and Asmodeus is a battle of wit and influence. This is why I put my faith in Asmodeus, who's probably 15 steps forwards anyway because he's been playing 4D chess for much longer than Raphael and it wouldn't be the first time he has to put a powerful devil back in place (see: Mephistopheles , Raphael's own father, Glasya...). Oh, to be a devil that gets to witness the negotiation between Raphael and Asmodeus.
@@unrulycrow6299 i mean dont the hells only need human souls because they use them to create more devils/demons for the blood war? Without the blood war they wouldnt need human souls anymore? The Gods would for worship however. But if you united the devils and the demons wouldnt the next logical step if your a power hungry arch devil like rapheal be to conquer the gods?
@@unrulycrow6299 "a mortal" being a loophole is a brainlet loophole, I really dont think it can be interpreted that way. If you dominate millions of mortals, you have dominated "a mortal" millions of times. The contracts can't be interpreted in moronic ways, its like law, each word has deliberate meaning and application. What he does say is he will never use the crown to dominate a mortal. Something I learned in school is to separate a law or contract into elements so you can interpret exactly what it entails: -Raphael -Will never use the Crown of Karsus -To dominate -A mortal. This means someone else can use the crown, he can dominate in other ways that aren't explicitly the crown, and he can dominate the infinite other creatures in the multiverse that aren't mortal, many of which can like dominate mortals, he can even just flat out use force since its not "dominating" them with the crown. As for the Kingdom part, that's is a loophole because territory disputes are a very real part of how kingdoms grow. If for some reason Raphael has a claim that something is his, it is his kingdom (for the purposes of the contract). This might not mean he can simply will territory to be his, but maybe a King gave up his kingdom to Raphael in a deal or something else that could lead to that being argued. Or they won't be a part of "his kingdom", they can just be vassals or some other kind of national power dynamic.
It definitely is a nice touch...i maybe misunderstanding it, but Raphael could technically invade the mortal plane and still keep his end of the deal...as we see with the Netherbrain, the crown sat atop its head and was dominated...so when Raphael says he won't use the crown to dominate a mortal, he probably means that in the most literal sense...he would not place the crown on a mortals head. That being said, having his armies invade the mortal plane with the aid of the crown may not fall under "dominating mortals with the crown" because he isn't dominating the mortals with the crown...he's dominating the demons and devils with the crown and just so happens to order them to invade the mortal realm. Nice little ingenious subtle wording is always a necessity for these types of contracts. Though even if he has the crown, lore wise i doubt his plans would succeed. Cause in the hells he has to worry about Asmodeus and in the mortal plane, he has to worry about the potential irk of the rest of the Gods. Knowing how much of a deal maker Raphael is, my theory is that despite his bravado and confidence, he knows he can't get an unconditional dominating victory on either front. So his plan would probably be to do just enough damage and secure just enough of a foothold to force the Archdevils and Gods to the negotiation table where he thrives...and once he gets them in that position, this is where he shines and would potentially get the concessions he so strives for.
@@BeAsTMoDE528 - That's....actually a fantastic way to make Devil contracts. Break down the components and find the twists within each line, then present the offer to a party. If they negotiate, break down the components they want to change, then verify it still works in the Devil's favor.
It's not even close. He is intimidated by acended Gale, the minorest of minor gods, at least for now. Asmodeus is a MAJOR deity (emphasis mine), who would absolutely wipe the floor with God Gale. He has perfect knowledge of all that takes place in the hells, endless legions of fiends equal or greater in power to Raphael, and should it come to a direct confrontation, he could unmake him or take the crown from him with a single thought.
I love that guy... but his plan will never work. I mean, it's a good plan, with the crown he can give the bost to the nine hells to maybe win the blood war... and when the abyss is taken, mount celestia will fall and then all creation... but i doubt that Asmodeus, the literal boss of all devils, one of the nine he wants to control, who is capable of ascending mount celestia were only the most pure can ascend, the one who legaly fucked all the gods of law to alow him to create a personal army and literaly create the 9 hells of Baator, all just by saying "read the fine print", would let Raphael be "the master"... maybe with luck, Raphael would be a nice puppet, but i think most likely Asmodeus would use him until he proves to be of no more use and then take the crown for himself. After all, all devils have that flaw, they al think they can ascend to de throne, but they always fail, and Asmodeus always has been the king of hell since he fell from heaven and created Baator.
It should also be noted that Mephistopheles, who initially had the crown, is both far more powerful and shrewd than his son Raphael, and yet never attempted to use it to overthrow Asmodeus despite having schemed and plotted against him before, and thus clearly having the ambition and desire to do so. It's pretty obvious between this and well... pretty much every other thing that he says and does, that Raphael is self-absorbed and arrogant to a fault, and his hubris will be his ultimate downfall if he's ever foolish enough to take on the big A himself, which he clearly is.
yea i walked into that guy's realm facerolled the house of hope and beat him first try, disney villan or not. But really, hes the true final boss IMO, nothing else was stronger.
It's a good deal. Because there is no way Raphael can even become the ruler of the hells let alone a archdevil of one. As if Asmodeus would be beaten by some uppity cambion with a trinket on his head. Hilarious.
Raphael definitely shouldn’t have the crown but what makes this exchange brilliant is that for all of it… Raphael is right. Everything he says about your situation is correct. The Emperor can’t be trusted since he’s a Mind Flayer, Orpheus does prove an ally and will willingly sacrifice himself so Lae’Zel can take his role as the liberator of the Githyanki, and you do have to face against the Elder Brain. Of course, you can outfox him by breaking into his home and taking the hammer anyway.
I love how he goes "i swear i'll never use the crown to dominate a mortal" and like. Well he did say A mortal. Not millions of mortals. The play on words is so tasty, I love it.
I don't think that is the trick here because if you dominate million mortal you also dominate a mortal. The trick here is you just dominate something really powerful which in turn dominates the mortales...
@adrianoawz2676 my point is: semantics. This is literally how Devils work. They use semantics and hidden conditions to get what they want from the contracts.
I don't think that works since dominating more than one mortal implies dominating at least one mortal (a mortal). With the power of the crown, dominating a mortal was the least of my concerns when Raphael is dealing with a Blood War back in his plane. When I was dealing with the contract it felt like I had all the bargaining chips - Raphael seemed desperate. It was a shame we could not bargain for more - my character was an impulsive Barbarian on quick gut decisions - dealing with dichotomies (or trichotomies) on my first playthrough is too heavy.
I love that so many people have the shit take of "NUH UH! A MILLION PEOPLE ISNT A PEOPLE!" That's violating the contract... millions of times. Something I learned in school is to separate a law or contract into elements so you can interpret exactly what it entails: -Raphael -Will never use the Crown of Karsus -To dominate -A mortal. This means someone other than raphael can use the crown, he simply doesn't HAVE to use the crown, as devils and other creatures can just dominate creatures, he can still use the crown on the infinite other beings that arent mortal, and he can just use the crown in OTHER ways than domination. This makes it barely a restriction, as mortals can be swayed in other ways than domination which are realistically easier, as the gods dont want extraplanar beings directly dominating swathes of mortals anyway. Their soul and choice is what makes the order of the universe work in DND. If you want to argue about law or deals use that tool so you dont look like an idiot.
If there's one thing we should've learned not just from D&D but from hundreds or thousands of years of human culture/fiction/religion/mythology, it's that it's always a *great* idea to trust a devil who's trying to get you to sign a contract. And if that doesn't convince you, just check out his epilogue scene that plays if you do sign and fulfill his contract. Giving him the crown is probably the worst choice you can make in the game - outside of letting the Elder Brain "win". I usually reject his plan before he can even spell it out, then proceed to kill him in his house and simply take the hammer. But having seen this sweet dialogue, I think I should've let him explain his plan in detail. Would've made (literally) back-stabbing him that much sweeter. Speaking of which: If you do sign the contract, can you steal it back? I know someone else's contract is in his vault-room, but since I never took his deal, I have no idea if you can simply steal your own contract back, too.
You can steal it back. If you take the deal it's literally the reason why you go to the house of hope (since you allredy have the hammer) Same outcome Raphael dies just different reason to enter his house. Instead of stealing a hammer you're now stealing the contract Or you ignore the entire dilemma and get the worst ending (besides letting the brain win)
The subtle music that one can only recognize on a second playthrough, after beating Raphael on the first
Even foreshadows his own possible demise with the rhyme at the end.
"they want the same thing" -- main character wearing full clown makeup.
Lmao!
I love the trick in his language. He promises to never use the crown to dominate a Mortal. That's because he'll use it to dominate all the Devil's and Demon's in the Nine Hells. He claims after creating his Kingdom that they will stay within their own borders. He never said "What" he considers his kingdom, meaning after the Nine Hells if he see's every other world or realm as rightfully his then it's not an invasion.
Also, dominating mortals directly may be tricky because he'd have to create a system that preserves the souls needed to run the Nine Hells AND also be sneaky because while his conquest of the Nine Hells is likely to cause Asmodeus to go "nu-uh" on him, conquering other Planes will have the Gods raise an eyebrow as well, since they too need mortal souls to justify their power.
So yeah, I love his use of words in general. He says "a mortal", not millions of them, and he says "within its borders" without clarifying WHAT the borders are exactly. He is so delightfully devious, I love him. I trust him more than I trust the Emperor however, because he's more transparent from the start despite his devilish ways, AND I do trust Asmodeus to take a step and put him in his place - in the lore, Asmodeus may be one of the Primodial serpents, so much more powerful than he lets on, and meta-wise the Biblical battle between Raphael and Asmodeus is a battle of wit and influence. This is why I put my faith in Asmodeus, who's probably 15 steps forwards anyway because he's been playing 4D chess for much longer than Raphael and it wouldn't be the first time he has to put a powerful devil back in place (see: Mephistopheles , Raphael's own father, Glasya...). Oh, to be a devil that gets to witness the negotiation between Raphael and Asmodeus.
@@unrulycrow6299 i mean dont the hells only need human souls because they use them to create more devils/demons for the blood war? Without the blood war they wouldnt need human souls anymore? The Gods would for worship however. But if you united the devils and the demons wouldnt the next logical step if your a power hungry arch devil like rapheal be to conquer the gods?
@@unrulycrow6299 "a mortal" being a loophole is a brainlet loophole, I really dont think it can be interpreted that way. If you dominate millions of mortals, you have dominated "a mortal" millions of times. The contracts can't be interpreted in moronic ways, its like law, each word has deliberate meaning and application. What he does say is he will never use the crown to dominate a mortal.
Something I learned in school is to separate a law or contract into elements so you can interpret exactly what it entails:
-Raphael
-Will never use the Crown of Karsus
-To dominate
-A mortal.
This means someone else can use the crown, he can dominate in other ways that aren't explicitly the crown, and he can dominate the infinite other creatures in the multiverse that aren't mortal, many of which can like dominate mortals, he can even just flat out use force since its not "dominating" them with the crown.
As for the Kingdom part, that's is a loophole because territory disputes are a very real part of how kingdoms grow. If for some reason Raphael has a claim that something is his, it is his kingdom (for the purposes of the contract). This might not mean he can simply will territory to be his, but maybe a King gave up his kingdom to Raphael in a deal or something else that could lead to that being argued. Or they won't be a part of "his kingdom", they can just be vassals or some other kind of national power dynamic.
It definitely is a nice touch...i maybe misunderstanding it, but Raphael could technically invade the mortal plane and still keep his end of the deal...as we see with the Netherbrain, the crown sat atop its head and was dominated...so when Raphael says he won't use the crown to dominate a mortal, he probably means that in the most literal sense...he would not place the crown on a mortals head. That being said, having his armies invade the mortal plane with the aid of the crown may not fall under "dominating mortals with the crown" because he isn't dominating the mortals with the crown...he's dominating the demons and devils with the crown and just so happens to order them to invade the mortal realm. Nice little ingenious subtle wording is always a necessity for these types of contracts.
Though even if he has the crown, lore wise i doubt his plans would succeed. Cause in the hells he has to worry about Asmodeus and in the mortal plane, he has to worry about the potential irk of the rest of the Gods. Knowing how much of a deal maker Raphael is, my theory is that despite his bravado and confidence, he knows he can't get an unconditional dominating victory on either front. So his plan would probably be to do just enough damage and secure just enough of a foothold to force the Archdevils and Gods to the negotiation table where he thrives...and once he gets them in that position, this is where he shines and would potentially get the concessions he so strives for.
@@BeAsTMoDE528 - That's....actually a fantastic way to make Devil contracts. Break down the components and find the twists within each line, then present the offer to a party. If they negotiate, break down the components they want to change, then verify it still works in the Devil's favor.
"clicks the fingers" - cut to 🤡 Tav lmao
1:25
I love the irony of his last rhyme "The master was slain within his own house" right before we raid his house and slay him within it
*Rule No 1:* Never take the devils deal in a brothel!
Lmaoooo
Meanwhile, your character looking like the insane clown posse for no reason at all
Poor Voss. In Act 1 he seemed so strong and powerful.
I feel like even with the Crown of Karsus, Raphael would get slaughtered by Asmodeus.
It's not even close. He is intimidated by acended Gale, the minorest of minor gods, at least for now. Asmodeus is a MAJOR deity (emphasis mine), who would absolutely wipe the floor with God Gale. He has perfect knowledge of all that takes place in the hells, endless legions of fiends equal or greater in power to Raphael, and should it come to a direct confrontation, he could unmake him or take the crown from him with a single thought.
@@williamkubie99
To be fair, God Gale IS in posession of the crown, the same thing Raphael wanted.
lmao i thought he put clown paint on your character when he snapped his fingers
I love that guy... but his plan will never work. I mean, it's a good plan, with the crown he can give the bost to the nine hells to maybe win the blood war... and when the abyss is taken, mount celestia will fall and then all creation... but i doubt that Asmodeus, the literal boss of all devils, one of the nine he wants to control, who is capable of ascending mount celestia were only the most pure can ascend, the one who legaly fucked all the gods of law to alow him to create a personal army and literaly create the 9 hells of Baator, all just by saying "read the fine print", would let Raphael be "the master"... maybe with luck, Raphael would be a nice puppet, but i think most likely Asmodeus would use him until he proves to be of no more use and then take the crown for himself. After all, all devils have that flaw, they al think they can ascend to de throne, but they always fail, and Asmodeus always has been the king of hell since he fell from heaven and created Baator.
From the little I know of devil lore, I think the most likely thing is that eventually Amodeus gets the crown. In which case, things would go DOWN.
It should also be noted that Mephistopheles, who initially had the crown, is both far more powerful and shrewd than his son Raphael, and yet never attempted to use it to overthrow Asmodeus despite having schemed and plotted against him before, and thus clearly having the ambition and desire to do so. It's pretty obvious between this and well... pretty much every other thing that he says and does, that Raphael is self-absorbed and arrogant to a fault, and his hubris will be his ultimate downfall if he's ever foolish enough to take on the big A himself, which he clearly is.
yea i walked into that guy's realm facerolled the house of hope and beat him first try, disney villan or not. But really, hes the true final boss IMO, nothing else was stronger.
They apparently made him stronger in the new patch. Want to fight him again in tactician.
@@milanesanapolitana2002 indeed, now he cannot be stunlocked as easily as before, cc lasts only 1 turn on him, and he got some stat upgrade too
It's a good deal.
Because there is no way Raphael can even become the ruler of the hells let alone a archdevil of one. As if Asmodeus would be beaten by some uppity cambion with a trinket on his head.
Hilarious.
You can never know, though.
Raphael's not an Archdevil like you say in the description, he's a cambion.
Raphael definitely shouldn’t have the crown but what makes this exchange brilliant is that for all of it… Raphael is right. Everything he says about your situation is correct. The Emperor can’t be trusted since he’s a Mind Flayer, Orpheus does prove an ally and will willingly sacrifice himself so Lae’Zel can take his role as the liberator of the Githyanki, and you do have to face against the Elder Brain. Of course, you can outfox him by breaking into his home and taking the hammer anyway.
"Let us speak plain"
me:✈️
my players: “I only know Common and Draconic, not Plain. Does anyone have Comprehend Language or Tongues?”
I love how he goes "i swear i'll never use the crown to dominate a mortal" and like. Well he did say A mortal. Not millions of mortals. The play on words is so tasty, I love it.
I don't think that is the trick here because if you dominate million mortal you also dominate a mortal. The trick here is you just dominate something really powerful which in turn dominates the mortales...
@adrianoawz2676 my point is: semantics. This is literally how Devils work. They use semantics and hidden conditions to get what they want from the contracts.
I don't think that works since dominating more than one mortal implies dominating at least one mortal (a mortal). With the power of the crown, dominating a mortal was the least of my concerns when Raphael is dealing with a Blood War back in his plane.
When I was dealing with the contract it felt like I had all the bargaining chips - Raphael seemed desperate. It was a shame we could not bargain for more - my character was an impulsive Barbarian on quick gut decisions - dealing with dichotomies (or trichotomies) on my first playthrough is too heavy.
I love that so many people have the shit take of "NUH UH! A MILLION PEOPLE ISNT A PEOPLE!"
That's violating the contract... millions of times.
Something I learned in school is to separate a law or contract into elements so you can interpret exactly what it entails:
-Raphael
-Will never use the Crown of Karsus
-To dominate
-A mortal.
This means someone other than raphael can use the crown, he simply doesn't HAVE to use the crown, as devils and other creatures can just dominate creatures, he can still use the crown on the infinite other beings that arent mortal, and he can just use the crown in OTHER ways than domination. This makes it barely a restriction, as mortals can be swayed in other ways than domination which are realistically easier, as the gods dont want extraplanar beings directly dominating swathes of mortals anyway. Their soul and choice is what makes the order of the universe work in DND.
If you want to argue about law or deals use that tool so you dont look like an idiot.
Raphael looking up at the player is so unsettling to me 😂 And then the clown makeup, I can't imagine what must've gone through his mind
Captions on at 0:16: “Kid Rock” lol
was not expecting that makeup.
If there's one thing we should've learned not just from D&D but from hundreds or thousands of years of human culture/fiction/religion/mythology, it's that it's always a *great* idea to trust a devil who's trying to get you to sign a contract. And if that doesn't convince you, just check out his epilogue scene that plays if you do sign and fulfill his contract. Giving him the crown is probably the worst choice you can make in the game - outside of letting the Elder Brain "win".
I usually reject his plan before he can even spell it out, then proceed to kill him in his house and simply take the hammer. But having seen this sweet dialogue, I think I should've let him explain his plan in detail. Would've made (literally) back-stabbing him that much sweeter.
Speaking of which: If you do sign the contract, can you steal it back? I know someone else's contract is in his vault-room, but since I never took his deal, I have no idea if you can simply steal your own contract back, too.
You can steal it back. If you take the deal it's literally the reason why you go to the house of hope (since you allredy have the hammer)
Same outcome Raphael dies just different reason to enter his house. Instead of stealing a hammer you're now stealing the contract
Or you ignore the entire dilemma and get the worst ending (besides letting the brain win)
I'm sorry I just can't see that bottom being on top.
If you know, you know.
Reasonable Deal if you ask me 😅
C’mon, he can have his crown, dude is 100% manageable. He’s got vices and insecurities like all. You could outfox him easily.
Also, the moment he oversteps in the 9 hells, Asmodeus will slap him down hard.
I've not had his animations look so janky for me