What If Arthur Never Got Sick? | Red Dead Redemption 2
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- What if Arthur Morgan never got sick in red dead redemption 2? What would happen if arthur didnt get sick in red dead redemption 2? What would have happened?
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What is a theory or topic you want to cover next? What do you think would have happened if Arthur never got sick?
what if arthur joined colm in the mision when he is captured by the odriscols?
What if Kieran, hosea, Sean, Lenny, survived
what if i got bitches
Arthur would’ve continued to blindly follow Dutch until his demise
@@jalenr.6542No, Arthur began doubting Dutch since before he knew he had TB through his unjustified murders, and greedy intentions. He would have never followed Dutch regardless of his sickness.
I like how Micah didn’t take Arthur seriously because he was sick but he still was getting his ass kicked at the end of the game while Arthur was dying.
Edit: Please stop liking this comment. I get a notification after every like on my phone for some reason.
"Can't even kill a dying man"
- Arthur when you give Micah one hell of an ass whooping
And he was trying Arthur while he was sick to see if he can take him out. What a coward
@@TheWilku22I saw this when they were in annesburg and Micah asked if he was followed
Ong
@@Exotik-monkt Yup. He did that because he knew Arthur is slightly weaker due to his (Arthur's) illness and that's why Morgan had trouble with getting Micah off of him. Healthy Arthur would push him off instantly, but sicker he couldnt do that as fast.
One thing I know for sure Arthur would have snapped Micah in two with bare hands if he hadn't gotten sick.
Easily
He would literally slam Micah on his knee like bane did batman
im batman and youre right@@tonyrambo4257
healthy ORTHUR would turn micah jnto sheesh kebab
Literally, it didn't matter if you played an underweight Arthur, he could easily smash little baby man Micah
With the side missions of the brother and the sister, we see Arthur was a good man, even before the Tuberculosis, so I think he could’ve gone down a very similar path to what the main story went down, albeit maybe not encouraging John to leave but to more stick by his side through all of beaver hollow.
He would've been with them in beecher 's hope IMO
@@CarpeNoctem1864 along with a bunch more of the gang, beechers hope might’ve been a “permanent residence” of what’s left of the van der linde gang
I think Arthur would have left with Mary Linton.
@@lucasludwig2347 I think she was a user hoebag that strung Arthur along until he wasn't useful anymore
@@bigsmilereviews100 that was more because they were under duress. Even Charles was surprised about Arthur saying that
It always pissed me off when Arthur was joked at about him being sick, realistically It never makes sense and just feels like an extreme low blow much more than usual. Arthur never once complained about his sickness, 99% of the time he attempts to hide just how bad it is and downplays it yet still was able to keep up with everyone else in the group all the way up until his body LITERALLY didn't let him anymore. The amount of strength and willpower required to successfully accomplish all the feats he had while being as sick as he was FAR greater than even the rest of the gang put together (from what we know). The man is likely unable to sleep at all, is hours from death and STILL keeps up with everyone else in the story and more. Dutch especially saying "ah, Arthur needs to rest", feels so unbelievable because we know just how much more Arthur is going through and how much more difficult everything is for him Physically and Mentally. It was such a massive moment of "are you seriously saying that right now?" moment as the player and to this day still makes my stomach turn in frustration
I think Dutch was in denial that Arthur was dying. He was rapidly losing his mind, his friends were being killed left and right, and he felt like as if there was a rat causing the gang to fall apart. He raised Arthur like a son, and like how he was in denial that the gang could bounce back and that he always had a plan that would save them all, Arthur was going to live.
@@centricthemedic1517That thought process makes the whole situation infinitely more sad, I’ll definitely keep it in mind for my next playthrough.
I always hated when Dutch said that “ah well Arthur needs to rest” bullshit. Dutch didn’t care about any of that and never even commented/ asked about his health besides that. Also Dutch only says it so Arthur can stay out of his way since he was starting to confront him about the Indians issues and everything else smh
For me it was the "are you alright Arthur" that made me mad. On the surface it sounds like someone caring for his friend, but it was just one of Datch's ways manipulation, dismissing Arthur's Opinion because he wasn't well. Only taking his illness into consideration when it didn't favour him but still sending Arthur to do dangerous jobs
With how sick he was and how much he kept fighting, it perfectly portrays exactly what Arthur was referring to when he tells Dutch “I gave you all I had”. Arthur gave Dutch every ounce of energy and respect when Dutch asked for it up until finally cracking near the end. Arthur gave Dutch literally everything, and he was never given the respect he deserved by practically his own father
If not before. When Dutch said about leaving Abigail behind, Arthur would absolutely go after her and turn against Dutch. He wouldn’t want to see Jack made an orphan and he’d see clear as day that Dutch wasn’t the man he thought he was.
But would Dutch leave Abigail behind if it happened before Hosea died? I think not
I think Arthur’s respect would have increased if he hadn’t gotten sick. I think Dutch would have instead of becoming more distant from the gang, he would of started to get Arthur to help make the decisions we all have seen him make. So basically Arthur would be replacing Hosea in a way.
I don’t think Hosea would have made much of a difference. We saw how ruthless and impulsive Dutch became as he was killing Bronte, before Hosea’s death. And as much as Dutch loved Hosea and claimed Arthur sounded just like him, he still refused to let the women and children leave. Arthur tried fulfilling Hosea’s shoes, and couldn’t, and perhaps Hosea himself couldn’t have swayed Dutch to think more logically. Micah had influenced him from the beginning, and was good at getting at his ear even before Hosea died. Micah fed Dutch with what he wanted to hear, and what Dutch wanted to have: unquestionable loyalty. The fact that Micah was an experienced outlaw was also in his favour.
it was not about the skills dutch is a narcissistic personality he likes whoever tells him hes right and he dislikes whoever tells him hes wrong even if he is
micah took this for his advantage
@@justsomeguy747yea dutch was literally showing sign of him going crazy since black water and micah had been in ears since black water cus he was the one to tell dutch to kill the girl’s on the faerie
@@justsomeguy747Hosea even tells him Arthur at the start of the game that Dutch and them shouldn’t have been on that ferry in the first place. Him and Arthur had nothing to do with it because him and Hosea were running a scam across town. Hosea was pissed that they did that job. Hosea was getting more and more pissed with the absolutely retarded decisions he was making and Hosea would even keep Arthur from enraging Dutch at time. Usually when Arthur would begin to question a dumb decision Dutch made he would shut him down by insulting his intelligence. Dutch raised him as a strong arm and gunslinger not a leader or thinker. Hosea knew that and didn’t want Dutch to oust Arthur for thinking for himself and questioning Dutch.
@@iambatmanbtw4673truth I've dealt with those types often to the point of spinning me into blind rage dealing with them
Are you kidding? The reason that Micah didn't try Arthur when he was healthy is because he was intimidated by arthur, and he knew Arthur would knock him out.
That is a good point
Which is what he said
Yep. Arthur fought a guy 2x his size and gave him permanent brain damage. Micha is a coward against anyone he thinks is physically stronger than him
I think we can all agree on the fact that Arthur would have survived the events of the game if he was healthy. Arthur Morgan is so OP that they had to give him a reason to die differently
I think he would have been a lot stronger. While Arthur in early chapters wouldnt have done this due to loyalty, I think he would have taken over the gang from Dutch with the help of Charles, Sadie, and possibly John. Javier would be the deciding factor as he canonically is torn by betraying them & doesnt aim his gun at Arthur & John. Susan would definitely be trigger ready to help. I just wonder if itd be a matter of time and who would make the first move. Either Arthur guns down Micah in camp for all to see first or Micah guns him down. Dutch would be the crazy factor though and would determine the next course of action given his deteoriating mental state.
Fucked up part of all this: if Arthur succeeds in taking the gang, I imagine itd be shortly after Molly is killed, the survivors would probably also have to kill Bill, maybe Javier too. And then considering Dutch’s high bounty, they could hand him over to the Pinkertons through like maybe Sadie & Charles since they’re not known to them & they could use the money to actually buy land and support everyone.
realistic.
However Arthur would never turn Dutch in no matter how bad their relationship got
@@theoutsiderjess1869 if Dutch litterly shoots Jack I think that might be enough
Arthur would be SUPER reluctant to turn on Dutch, it'd probably have to be the others who'd have to sort out Dutch behind Arthur's back but Arthur would probably come around eventually.
Depending on the order on how things are done (So like when Micah's dealt with, when Dutch is dealt with and when the gang is split) that'd probably depend on where Javier goes. Like say if the gang splits before Dutch (and Micah) are dealt with, Javier would stand behind them but if one or both of them go, the others would probs be able to talk some sense into him before the gang starts to split.
I also just want to say that I LOVE the idea of Arthur and Micah have a classic Wild West duel that Arthur would obviously win so long as Micah didn't play dirty (which he 100% would) but no matter, Arthur would almost certainly come on top.
I think that if Arthur never got TB, it would end in a shootout like normal, but Arthur would end up shooting Micah, and Dutch realising that Arthur was right to kill him.
I once saw a fanfic about the ending if Arthur never got tb so Micah would be on the ground with Arthur standing over him and aiming the gun at his head if you had high honor Arthur would leave Micah and Micah would shoot him in the back and if you had low honor he would go to shoot Micah but get killed by Dutch before he could actually do it.
@@The_goat_blackgrua good dlc to make out of
@@The_goat_blackgruwell written options of betrayal
On my second playthrough, I just avoided Thomas Downes, but the game forces you into it eventually
does he get turbulosis when Downes coughs all over him then?
@@d-mac8705 yes
f*CK debt
This game holds a special place in my heart the first time i beat the game and saw arthur pass on watching the sun set i cried and literally couldn't play the game 2 months after . I have 1000+ hours of this gorgeous masterpiece.
This and The Witcher 3 I hold in high regards. Shenmue was the first awe inspiring experience playing a open world game that felt real with the characters and interactions with objects even if modern open world games have surpassed it from a graphical and gameplay perspective.
1000 hours and still don’t realise that he died facing East, watching the sunrise.
i'm not trying to be rude but wtf were you doing for those 1000 hours
@@RubyXIII like 3 full playthroughs 4 online characters alot of exploration and I always see something I haven't seen before that is why I love this game I'm on a new playthrough right now XD.
You know what would be an interesting what if?
What if Micah, after being saved by Arthur, tries to worm his way into Arthur's good graces instead of Dutch's.
I know this wouldn't be completely in character for Micah, but my thought is what if the shattering of the gang went the other way around and it was Arthur, John, Micah and Micah's goons against Dutch, Bill and Javier?
Technically Micah tried but failed because Arthur doesn't have the personality like Dutch plus Arthur doesn't mind being contradicted nor does he care about being right always and above all He doesn't like Micah's ways, Arthur was violent and a criminal but he wasn't as bad as Micah (depends on the player but canonically Arthur has a higher honor than Micah) Micah He should change his ways to become less violent and use ways that Arthur likes but for someone like Micah, change is impossible, he was born in violence and died in violence
I think Arthur would still recognize and acknowledge the errors and red flags that Dutch makes in beaver hollow. We saw it before the diagnosis and now he has to take Hosea’s role in keeping Dutch sane.
Arthur would definitely do less with the strangers missions so he could focus on maintaining the gang and rebuilding the father figure he has had for years. He doesn’t want one of the greatest men he’s ever met to end up as he did canonically.
While you certainly raise good points about Arthur's TB causing Dutch to think less favorably of him. Even if Arthur didn't get sick, I believe Arthur would have still grown doubtful of Dutch's plans in chapter 6. Which would have alienated Arthur from Dutch's trust.
I am a little late here, but
a random camp encounter with Micah where he is cleaning his gun and if you walk up to him he points it at you, and says "Got you there, tough guy" or some such, Arthur just replys coldly to "name the time and place, my friend." and you can get this one at random times.. so with that said, I think if arthur never got sick he would have put two in micah, maybe on a "mock" job or something
Hope everyone has a great new years!
if he never got sick, Dutch and Micah would've been dead and the Gang would've lived peacefully. after that
He would f*cking smoke Micah. That's for sure.
Personally I think Arthur not being sick would see him become the new Hosea effectively, rather than just getting shoved off to the side. You gotta remember, the gang started with those three, they're the old guard, more than anything else they were a family. That family just got shook hard and made smaller. As much as Dutch liked Micah and the words he spoke, the actions he took, it wasn't what he had for Arthur. During Shady Belle, when Dutch was howling for Bronte's blood and he and Hosea were butting heads about what to do, he even started singing Micah's praises to Arthur directly, and all it took was thirty seconds for him to switch back around and apologize.
But this is also less to do with Arthur, the whole latter events of the game were the end result of Micah's collaboration with the Pinkertons to save his own hide(or potentially cash in on the bounties of the gang members, as his old camp has snippets of Dutch's own bounty). Micah for all the greasy, sneaky, backstabbing bullshit that we would know him for later though, in Clemens Point as well as a few other times in Shady Belle, had his moments of genuinely trying to give the gang a shot. Micah had more in common with the O'Driscolls than the gang, being vicious and hardened, but I think there was a time between his stay in Strawberry up until about halfway through Shady Belle when he might genuinely have tried to turn around. Because being the way he was up until that point had just nearly killed him. He started to understand the depth of which he just fucked up. He hated the O'Driscolls, otherwise truth be told he'd have joined them directly because they were far more his speed, and they're larger and maybe even stronger than the van der lindes. So he definitely didn't corroborate with Colm to specifically get rid of Arthur, that again was a purely Colm thing because Colm's a fuckin maniac who thinks he can buy his freedom by giving away the van der lindes, and he captured Arthur to use as bait. Because again, Arthur was a member of the old guard, genuinely seen as a son by Dutch and Hosea, as well as being the head enforcer for the gang. The entire gang damn near destroyed Rhodes over Sean who was an annoyance, destroyed one of the most wealthy, powerful, and influential families in Lemoyne over little Jack(with extreme prejudice), to say nothing of what they did to the O'Driscolls over Kieran and Jake Adler, one of whom has been long dead and the other was the gang's punching bag.
Loyalty is an important thing to Dutch(at least during the better part of the first half of the game), and the perceived lack or betrayal of it drove him insane during Beaver's Hollow. It's a sentiment shared by the rest of the gang, who are for all intents and purposes one giant family. So, imagine word gets to them that Arthur is being held captive by Colm. The whole gang might very well have picked up arms and took after him. Micah even apologizes personally to Arthur during Clemens Point, saying quote, "the one time I try to do the right and wise thing and it blows up like this. That'll teach me.".
But, let's say Arthur never got sick, everything else stayed the same. All the deaths, the trip to guarma, Beavers Hollow, all of it. Arthur would have become far more trusted, but so would Micah. If Arthur would fill in the role of new Hosea, Micah very well could be the next Arthur, something that rightfully and truly should have been John's place, thus creating the inner conflict needed. And finally, the confrontation, just before the standoff. If Dutch heard Arthur say that about Micah, I think he might be genuinely conflicted. Because in his eyes, Micah was now his second Arthur, he was the go-to guy. Dutch had trusted Micah more than even Molly, and we saw how he reacted to her. Truthfully, the biggest difference might be with how many people stayed because Arthur kept their hopes up and dreams alive. Those people would have had his back, and I think even Javier would have stood behind him. I'm up in the air about Bill, but that's another matter.
Where would it end? The second that Javier mentioned Pinkertons, or Micah shooting Grimshaw. It would have been instant in that moment, that brief return to sanity, the realization of his failure, of Micah's ultimate betrayal of his trust, and just what it has cost him and the gang. Micah wouldn't draw another breath. Who knows what could have happened then. Maybe the gang actually would've made it to Tahiti lmao.
Longest serious youtube comment ever
Dutch lost his wise man (Hosea) and strongest enforcer (Arthur) so you can see where it goes wrong
I choose to believe Arthur didnt die but faked his death so he could quit having to be around Micah
I think arthur was kind of the embodiment of the snakeoil ideas dutch was selling, probably made it an easier sell. Seems like generally arthur is pretty live and let live to bystanders/people that get caught in the crossfire of the gangs activities. Far from a saint but some sort of guiding principle. Unless of course, you as a player go full murder hobo.
The duality is that when he's dealing with people he considers fair game the switch flips. Dude becomes a killing machine. That scary blend of brainwashed and defending what he considers to be his family and their freedom. He lives a pretty black and white life i think, and ends up being the best version of dutch's ideology.
The arc for me, is the long gradual unwinding of his black and white beliefs as he watches dutch loose his mind and his friends die for nothing.
In one of the Blind Man encounters he says "As evil has begat evil, so too good may begat good" which is an odd way to phrase it; begat is the past tense so its like saying "...so too good may have birthed good"
This to me suggests that the writers are saying the seed of goodness could well grow already in Arthur and prompt him to oppose the slide that the gang is experiencing, so that even without TB he could have become a moral leader for the gang.
Maybe the devs just didn't trust the players to know how to conjugate 'beget' tho.
1:08 he may not have his father figure Dutch’s support, but he’ll always have Hosea’s support, despite Hosea being dead.
The camp ledger shows pretty clearly which gang members are doing the most work, how (rob/hunt/forage), and when. Micah was no slouch.
I imagine the biggest difference if Arthur wasn't sick would have to be the fact that he would not have been forced by the illness to split up with John on the mountain at the end, which led to his slightly premature demise. And therefore, they both would have escaped together with Abigail, Jack, & Sadie. It's very difficult to imagine which of the millions of additional possibilities and consequences a surviving Arthur allows for might have been most likely to occur. But...no story can avoid having an ending. And the impact of his eventual death probably would have been nerfed from what it was, had he survived.
Very interesting analysis. I agree with you. Arthur only became retrospective and regretful because he was on borrowed time.
I believe, if Arthur hadn't got tuberculosis he would've carried on as he was with the gang, been the louder voice in Dutch's ear and let Michah swing!
Best timeline: Instead of Arthur Micah would've catched TB and died to it. Or Arthur deciding that Micah causes more trouble than he is worth, letting Micah hang and telling Dutch, that he arrived to late to save Micah.
If Arthur wouldn't have caught TB, he wouldn't have been hindered by it and in a world, were respect for a middle-aged man stems from physical fitness, getting TB was foreseeable to damage and eventually cost Arthur his position as "3rd in command" of the gang behind Hosea and Dutch at the Top.
Man, I need to replay the game at some point, I don't remember all the details but imho Arthur and his attempts to question Dutch in a constructive way, trying to get Dutch to change course, really failed because Dutch more and more lost respect for that "sick man" that is not reliable anymore to perform from his point of view.
Like a Star NFL football player, that gets injured, can't perform anymore how he used to and then falls from grace.
If Arthur would've been healthy, he could've convined him, maybe at latest after chapter 3, when Sean was dead and Kieran, to change course and instead flee west and lay low, letting grass grow over it, that Dutches plan of getting to Tahiti and thus attempting more dangerous, bigger scores, was not worth it, since it got members of their gang killed.
They clearly couldn't have just given up to the Police, unlike how actually we deal with Bounties, throughout the story it becomes clear that with the lore killing happening people don't look to kindly on bloody, mordering robbers, Micah nearly got hanged over it.
So if they sticked to the US, like Arthur suggested in his diaries afaik from day 1 on, they should've gone west and lay low, maybe build up a new identity and a ranch far from where they commited their crimes.
But that wouldn't have been a dramatic game that people want to play and progress and it would've been non-canonical, since it wouldn't have led up to the story of RDR 1.
That is what I dislike about games, that are prequels in an established story, in some mystique way it is clear how things will end more or less, you can't be surprised by an alternative that would contradict the older, canonical sequel title.
If they would've introduced entirely different characters, not related to the RDR 1 characters, this would've been possible.
So I hope, if they ever make an RDR 3, that they will do it with different characters, so we can be more surprised by the ending.
personally? I don't think too much would've changed. I think he still would've been against Dutch and recognise his faults, and I still think he would've sacrificed himself for John, just not die doing so. He was a good man deep down before he got sick.
While I do believe that Arthur is a good person deep down if nothing provokes self reflection then he’d most likely continue to be a bad person
I think they should've made it a choice, whether to leave Micah to hang or not. Sure, Dutch might've been upset for a few days but then it would've all worked out a whole lot better for the gang I'm 100% sure..
if things work out better for the gang we get a much less impactful story lol
Not really, dutch was losing his mind and making dumb decision to hurt the gang, The fact that bill and javier both left who were dutch's two most loyal members besides arthur shows that. The story still would have been impactful.@@stageblood9935
If things turn out better for the gang, Red Dead Redemption I doesn't happen.
I don't know, In red dead redemption the government caught john and forced him to go after Dutch, Bill and Javier by holding abigal and his son against their will. If john were to get captured I don't see why the government wouldn't have done the same thing.
If it turned out better I guess it depends on if john were to get caught.
I'm surprised john didn't wanna leave after his son got kidnapped and rescued to be honest.
John actually left the gang for a whole year and arthur hated him for it in the beginning of the game so it's possible john would have eventually left the gang later on.@@Hacker-pt3wm
Great video honestly a better character study of how Micah thinks and functions then of Arthur’s TB
I think it would be funny if uncle wasn’t in rdr2 and Arthur just kinda stayed with John and abagail and slowly aged into rdr1s uncle. You could argue the drinking and laziness explain why he looks the way he does.
Even if he was Arthur he wasn't the lazy type and scolds Uncle many times for his laziness
I believe it was always destined to happen. However I believe Micah would've made it so Arthur looked like the snake. He was pouring honeyed words in Dutch's ear a lot after the the tram crash and not doubt Micah noticed this and took advantage of it. I think Arthur would've either become a bounty hunter of a saddle tramp if he wasn't sick.
If Arthur hadn't have gotten TB, I think Arthur would have done a job with Micah, similar to the stage coach, and then killed him, and brought his body back, then would have fabricated a story that Micah and Arthur got into a shoot out with the stagecoach driver and security, and Micah died, then Arthur finished off the stage coach driver and security and brought Micah's body back for a burial, eliminating Micah permanently.
I agree with that but wouldnt that attract the pinkertons? Id like that idea if it ended with arthur acting like he died with micah on a robbery and somehow survived and went n lived with mary linton happily ever after
@@Yomamabelackin if it actually happened, yes, but as it would all just be a story, Arthur could just say that they were in a very remote location (somewhere in the Grizzilies for example) where there isn't much going on, then all Arthur would need to do is lie and say that the coach driver and 1 guard were there, shot Micah, Arthur finished the two off and took off with Micah, nobody needs to know that it was really Arthur who shot Micah
@@calebmufcthompson true
Honestly if Arthur didnt get sick, his new goal once the gang started to fall apart was to get the women John, Abigail and Jack away from Dutch before he got them killed and i think John or Abigail (with the help of Jack) would have been able to talk Arthur into making up his mind in leaving with The Marstons
The real chance came after that train heist where Dutch hitted his head hard. After that, he slowly, but surely, start losing contact with reality, becoming more paranoid and violent toward everyone as seen how he handle the camp, his charismatic persona and cunning plans become ruthless acts of tyranny and bloodshed, Micah gladly joins or push him toward.
Nah it’s just the fact hosea died and after that micah could push Dutch even more into craziness, something like that
It's obvious that Arthur was starting to doubt Dutch's decisons since the beggining of the game, but being diagnosed with TB was the thing that accelerated things, i mean, a healthy Arthur would eventually see things the way he did with TB but maybe much later, or maybe too late.
Maybe instead of trying to help the gang members before the TB killed him, he would have acted more aggresively against Micah, maybe killing him and confronting Dutch, creating an "internal war" between those who believe in Dutch and those who believe in Arthur, maybe a healthy Arthur would have made Karen, Mary Beth, Uncle and Pearson to stay with the gang because he would still be the same imponent Arthur as always, giving them more hope for the situation, making them stay a bit longer.
Or maybe Arthur would've convinced "the good ones" of the gang (Sadie, Charles, John and his family, Uncle, Mary Beth, Karen, Pearson) to stay with him and run while Dutch and the "bad ones" attacked the train, being surrounded by the pinkertons later like it happened in the game.
Or maybe everything could've happened exactly the same, but maybe Eagle flies could've survived, since Arthur could've defended himself from that soldier (after being left to die by Dutch) avoiding Colonel Flavours to kill him, so Charles would've made the train job with them instead of staying with the natives, so maybe they would've come back for John after being shot then save Abigail and confront Dutch and the others, and running away all of them, letting Dutch and the others with the money and the Pinkertons behind them.
I don't know, maybe i left a few details and my theories don't happen, but i guess we'll never know.
What a game, nice video.
Arthur getting sick is what changes his outlook and him as a person.
I feel like having not gotten tuberculosis he probably would have stayed the same that person that he was in the prologue and in the first chapter.
Yep.
Unless someone gave him a pep talk
I think the gang would have fell apart anyway. Dutch was losing his mind since blackwater. And with Micah and potentially Molly tellin it was bound to drown. But Arthur was and would have been the glue if he wasn’t sick so rdr3 would look waaay different and rdr as well.
IMO if Arthur never got sick then the story would have never unfolded the way it did. I think that Arthur, since he wouldn’t be so occupied by his sickness would have got fed up with Micah and talked to Dutch about around mid chapter 4 and since Hosea hadn’t died yet he might still have some reason and would’ve kicked Micah out or even killed him, therefore the majority of the events that occurred due to Micah corrupting Dutch’s thinking never would’ve happened and the gang would’ve kept on until the Pinkerton found them or they successfully left the country
I think its posssible that the game would have ended with a showdown between micah, maybe bill and Javier and Dutch vs. Arthur, Sadie, Charles and John.
Arthur would end up killing Micah and probably Dutch as well. Javier, Bill and Micahs goons would also be dead. He would give the money to John to start a new life with Abigail and Jack sending Charles with him while Arthur and Sadie fought off the last of the pinkertons.
Arthur would live out his days with Sadie as bounty hunters and lovers.
John, Abigail, and Jack end up living the same life on their ranch. But this time, the events of the first game dont happen because Dutch, Bill, and Javier are already dead.
Perhaps the pinkertons still want to hunt down John and Arthur so there could still be some conflict there. There could still be more to the story. Another story of redemption. But the events would be very different.
Whlle point of his redemption is he gets tb and sees his wrongs
@tammykolu1242 In this case it would be the change in Dutch that would be the reason for his redemption. Which is half true in the game anyway. Yes Arthur is driven to change due to his illness but its not only that. His redemption arch is in direct opposition to Dutch becoming more and more unhinged.
Arthur’s sickness forced him to reevaluate the life he’d lived and the harm he’d caused people outside of the gang.
Arthur had known that the gang’s time was almost over for a long time; he says so at the very beginning of the game. I think he was resigned to either getting that final score and retiring or dying with Dutch because he valued loyalty to the gang above all else.
Getting sick forced him to take stock of his circumstances-the law and civilization closing in, Dutch’s increasing selfishness, paranoia, disregard for both his values and the gang, etc-and decide to divest himself from Dutch and save as many people as possible regardless of their affiliation with the gang.
If Arthur hadn’t gotten sick, he would’ve questioned/fought with Dutch or maybe even revealed Micah as a traitor and killed him, but I don’t think he would’ve forgiven anyone’s debts or kicked Strauss out of the camp. And he wouldn’t have told the non-enforcers to leave Beaver Hollow; some of them probably would’ve died. If he and John both escaped, Arthur probably would’ve died at the end of RDR1 because the law/karma was always going to come for him.
In my little theory, i think micah couldn't have done much but maybe get a horde of Pinkertons to kill arthur, potentially blaming him to be responsible for the saint denis robbery, or got cleet and joe to steal Dutch's chest or take all the money in blackwater with hired guns since in the Cornwall mission in annesburg if arthur wasnt sick, he could've put micah against the wall that he tried shoving Arthur in to test out if he can over power him
If no one died i could see the gang splitting anyway. Hosea with Arthur, Sean, Lenny, Abigail, John, Jack, Ms. Grimshaw, Sadie, Charles, Tilly, Mary Beth, Kieran, likely Karen and Josiah. On one side. Dutch, Bill, Micah, Javier, Micah's buddies, etc
Arthur’s well-being was based on how the gang was. When he got worse, the gang got worse. The second that Arthur died, the gang died.
does not matter how arthur would live, but he healthy would have beaten mica into pieces in a few seconds.
I believe this is one if not the hardest RDR2 theory to try and pin point what would have happened. First of all, it depends on the player if Arthur reaches his redemption or not, if the player decides to play low honor and not help people while going for the money, then the Arthur from that story is a deluded man who thinks he can make it out even though he is sick. If the player decides to be honorable and do good deeds and help John at the end, they have made an Arthur that has realized one of the beauties of life, he knows the gang doesn't matter anymore, and tries to do everything he can before he dies.
This theory depends on which Arthur we take, his illness sure helped him soften up a little bit more, but it wasn't the only thing that did. I unfortunately don't think this theory really leads anywhere, you could say that Arthur would be more persistent if he wasn't sick and try and make Dutch see through Micah, but Micah could have just sold the gang out to the Pinkertons and the events kind of play out the same, except for the dilema of whether to help John or go for the money, which depends on what the player has done throughout his playthrough.
I really look forward to see more of your theories, it's just that this one isn't really for me.
I think the failed negotiation was what led Micah to give up on winning over Arther and start attempting to alienate him from Dutch. At that point Arther’s opinion of him would be pretty much set in stone. He knew after seeing how angry Dutch got about it that his survival depended on getting rid of Arther.
"Arthur refuses to kill innocent people"
Oh, sweet summer child...
Cannonically he's not, unlike john that killed people because they looked at him funny, Arthur have no backstory of randomly killing people. He even spared Tommy
I dont think things would have changed bery much at the end or the Beaver Hollow section because Arthur was pulling away even before he found out exactly what was wrong with him. If Arthur isnt sick Micah dies at beaver hollow and Arthur meets up with John and his family. The rift between Arthur and Dutch would have gotten even wider i believe because Arthur would have been of even more sound mind than he was and he would have been able to do even more to get John and his family out of the gang. I mean he damn near single handedly got John out of jail while the TB was at a very advanced stage. I think if Arthur hadn't been sick Dutch would have seen him as even more mentally ill, i think it would have lead to Arthur killing Dutch as well as Micah because Dutch was so gone and believed in Micah. Then with Arthur killing Micah it would have cemented in Dutches.mind that Arthur was the crazy one and the one who was pulling the gang apart. As a side note Arthur should have been in Johns role. After playing RDR2 it really showed me just how much a joke John was as a character. I mean hes one of the dumbest members of the gang yet hes the one with a family and not someone like Arthur who was beloved by the entire gang minus Micah
Rockstar was genius for having him get sick rather than just having his head blown off it makes you feel so much more invested
To me, everything would go exactly the same. The only difference is, Arthur, most likely, wouldn't have found his redemption or at least tried making things right to better himself as a man.
Looking back on the original story, I find this one to be heartbreaking. Arthur will never truly understand love in it's full meaning, nor believe in it.
He'll never know how good of a man he could have been to those who were in need of help and missed a great opportunity for a value lesson that he desperately needed to hear and would probably die thinking he was a no good outlaw that everyone feared/hated all for the price of loyalty that actually meant nothing for years.
I think if Arthur didn’t get sick Dutch wouldn’t of went insane the way he did in RDR1 Arthur would kept him together
sidenote: am at 1:47 rn and am really enjoying the vid, but that *incredible* fuckin OST is distracting me from what you're saying. I'm getting all wistful and melancholy whilst trying to follow you lol
Either way, I'm glad youre enjoying the video lol
@@CynicGTAthe music is just too loud.
Otherwise it helps the video
I think if Micah didn't have such thick plot armour that Bill would have shot him in a drunken stupor. Bill never liked Micah and was not one to hold back normally and When Micah sucker punched him for laughing at Lenny's ribbing of Micah, we all know careless Bill can be. I would have loved to watch Micah Swing cause honestly being riddled with bullets was too good for him.
I think Micah would have found a way to eliminate Arthur with no one around, he was determined be Dutch’s right hand man by any means necessary. I think Arthur would have died at Micah’s hands if he not gotten sick
Arthur would have completely mopped the floor with Micah if he wasn't sick.
To be fair, Arthur still whooped his ass even half-dead of TB. He's been in fist/knife fights with a 1-12 disadvantage and *STILL* won, that should tell you plenty about how damn scary he is even half a step away from his deathbed.
@@RixoliI see people say he still won but, as much as I really REALLY hate to say it, he didn’t. Not saying he lost, more of a tie, but if it had continued past the Dutch stomp, Micah would have probably won, yes yes, Arthur got the gun, but Micah could’ve tackled him, or maybe not, I don’t know.
if u consider dead eye is a real skill of arthur he could easy take out micah and everyone standing in his way in a blink of a sec this bro is not human he just didnt do bc he had to kill dutch,bill and maybe javier too in order to survive the situation
later on when micah came to kill him he would snap his neck in a few min if he was not sick since he even beat him up when he was nearly dead
i think micah wouldnt even have the balls to come back and arthur would just be seperated from the gang at this moment @@JamesJome123
@iambatmanbtw4673 I wish that the bad honor ending led to having Jhon kill Micah in the epilouge, but in the good honor ending, Arthur reaches the gun, and the player gets to shoot Micah.
Arthur's sickness ruined my enjoyment of the game. I didn't finish it.
I think Dutch gave up on the robin hood facade in their earlier years, maybe he just got old and became careless and completely selfish
Finally someone actually talking about it in a story
Not just a mod edit
This is a really great video. Its sad that Arthur got sick and died but he would have never changed. Hell if he never changed he could be even hunted by the law in rdr1
Or even fucking worse... John
@@johnrockyryan tha too, i have no idea why i didnt write that.
took the money and ran away with mary linton
I think if Arthur hadn’t got sick , we would have a helluva good RDR3 , that’s why I kinda hope they go back farther in the next version of this game. But I’m sure they won’t , maybe in order to put this game to rest , which would be stupid being as how people love this game as much as GTA. I hated it when they killed Arthur off , but in reality they killed all of the main characters. That’s why I want the next one to go back farther , just so we can have them all back together.
👍👍👍✌️✌️✌️
First of all. Arthur whould still be alive. With micah probably dead after Arthur finds out who the rat is. Also Arthur whould still have his position as a strong individual in the gang. We know this since
1: Arthur isnt sick
2: Because Arthur isnt sick he wont really be questioning Dutch as much and wont be the voice of reason. We know this because he says it himself. "After i got diagnosed i saw everything in a new light" it was something like that but prob not word for word. I just remember him saying that he saw stuff diffrently after he got diagnosed with TB.
3: Micah is gonna be the sick one since Strauss is probably still gonna send someone to collect the money. He knows that Micah is ruthless (As does the whole ass gang)
4: Arthur is strong because he doesnt have TB. He aint sick.
I think if Arthur lived throughout the game...Dutch and the gang would of all died and rdr would of been about Arthur and John becoming like bounty hunters or outlaw like lawmen
He was starting to change before TB I think he would have ran away with Mary
The Events play out the same but Arthur would acted as result of Dutch leave people behind 1st Arthur then John in Jail then John after ArmyTrain then Abigail captured
so this would resulted in showdown still taking place but a strong Arthur and John would have both escape into mountains it was Arthur illness that resulted in him say to John go on
So both would have escape .
This could have set up a show down with Dutch maybe later on
Sadie & Charles I think would end up John and Arther this resulted in there family going North to Canadian wilds Charles was Helping the Rainsfall and his tribe the tribe was getting out so make sense that Charles would have suggest help them and fits with Arther code
From 1867 to 1914, the Canadian West became home to millions of immigrant settlers seeking a new life. Their resettlement in the region was underpinned by the displacement of Indigenous peoples a lot of this land was give free subject to inprovement so a large skilled mix group with large amount of money for time vanishing into Canadian West out side USA and out of reach of law
I FULLY believe Abigail was the rat. You don't have to believe me but hear me out. Micah had this sarcastic tone to his voice, even when saying normal things that everybody would say in day to day conversations, from the start. Kind made me wonder if it was just a character trait. Meanwhile, while in Guarma, Dutch mentions John is the only one Milton took alive. And Abigail slipped away to, thats.....pretty suspicious. Okay, now for the theory.
Abigail, as established, is the rat. So let's just assume for the sake of argument, that everything that was pinned on Micah was actually Abigail. She later gets kidnapped by Milton, when Arthur arrives he and Milton get into a struggle over a revolver. Abigail ends up shooting Milton and saving Arthur, but what if it wasn't just to save his life? What if she saw an out and took it?
I'm sure there's more evidence but I haven't had a chance to look for it. So please feel free to add to this if you have anything else that might aid my case
I like to think that Arthur would've escaped the splitting of the gang alongside John and would go to live with him on his ranch, and would've saved John's life from those damn Pinkertons when they came after him at the end of RDR1. 😭
Would’ve been a cool detail to have Micah contract TB via his fight with Arthur.
To serve as a constant reminder of Arthur up until Dutch and John kill him.
one thing for sure: if arthur wasn't sick he would have beaten Micah so silly he would have been ragdolled all over the place before being thrown off the cliff
If arthur survived rdr2 id think hed run off with mary, live at beechers hope, or get hunted by john in rdr1. I doubt its the 3rd option but damn that would have been crazy
Enjoyed the video! I've always wondered what would happen if Arthur never went back to camp after he got sick. Would the game keep him at the same lever of sickness until he did return or would it somehow force you to go back?
I think if Arthur had never gotten ill. I think the events of the game would have probably still played out the way they would have excet that Arthur would have more than likely killed Micah in their final brawl, joined up with Sadie and John, hooked with Sadie as a bounty hunter and possibly more, and helped John build Beecher's Hope.
As much as I hate the idea of shipping, Sadie woulda been a hell of a lot better for him than Mary. A wild west outlaw like Arthur would need a woman who doesn't mind getting her hands dirty and who can hold her own in a fight, not the high society daughter of some rich bastard that's more concerned with his daughter not marrying a lower class than his daughter marrying someone she actually loves and who can take care of her.
Sadie sticking her knife through a womanizer's hand was the HIGHLIGHT of why she'd have been better for him. Not to mention, I think Arthur was the first man in the game to not underestimate her and see her value as something more than a dishwasher and baby maker other than maybe her late husband.
@lsswappedcessna - Found myself watching this video again, happened to see my old comment, and noticed there was a reply to it, and I agree with everything you said.
One of the things that I disliked about the game, as far as the story, actually the only thing, is how they had Arthur so hung up on Mary even though it had been years since they were together.
Now I am totally aware that for some people that does happen to them, and I myself was there once, and speaking from personal experience, and I'm going to use Captain Monroe's description of Colonel Favors: "Trying to cling onto a past that's already gone," which ironically can equally be said about Dutch, but the point: It's fine to have memories, but just remember that a memory cannot love you back, and it will keep you from missing out on the present, and it will in turn impact your future in a negative way.
I wish that if you reject Mary, especially the 2nd time, that then a romance either Sadie, or even Mary-Beth might've opened up, therefore proving that point more. That by keeping the past in it's proper place, it will open doors to you that you may not have realized were there, and by carefully choosing which doors to step through, how you can help to customize a beter future for yourself.
Arthur would’ve killed Micah and probably Dutch too so yeah I think it would be different
If Arthur had been healthy, Micah would have been stomped into paste.
On my second playthrough I tried avoiding doing the mission where Arthur gets sick as long as possible.. Eventually the game forces you and just started the mission automatically 😂
I like to think that in an alternate universe where Arthur didn't get sick, he and Sadie would hunt bounties together. Their chemistry is good and I'd feel they would work well together, Arthur being the sharpshot and dealing with people from long range, whilst Sadie deals with close courters and melee attackers.
I think a specific clash change would occur during the standoff where Miss Grimshaw gets shot.
Arthur would be at the top of his game at this point in his life if it weren’t for the TB. I think he would react to Micah taking the shot, killing him immediately with a bullet to his brain. Whether he could save Miss Grimshaw is hard to say, and what would happen next is questionable. Dutch could take this either way honestly, if Arthur threw himself at his mercy, I think Dutch would see his loyalty and change for the better. Micah’s buddies, and Bill and Javier could easily die here, as well as Arthur. I think it would depend on if Bill and Javier had grown to dislike a non sick Arthur, who I think they’d inherently respect more.
I think if Arthur’s health wasn’t so bad he would of beat the snot out of Micah and at the end of the game if Lenny and Hosea were still alive I really think that they would’ve sided with Arthur.
At the beginning arthur is Passive agressive most likely after he get TB he goes full passive making his wrongs right so without TB he may have still been the same or may have gone full aggressive maybe killing or putting micah in his place and exposing dutch for whats happening. Arthur might also would have prevented a few deaths most likely would have prevented lenny death and Grimshaw death probably kierans too. He may also have all those people he save back him and John up in going against dutch. Lastly with the ultimate choice arthur if he had gone for the money would have the rest of his gang go with john and arthur would win against Micah but probably be shot in the back by Dutch as he is distracted, Alternatively if he goes with john he and the crew would fight until they are back on the mountain where some of arthurs crew would stay to defend like Lenny and probably Grimshaw with kieran leaving with John as arthur holds off the people coming after them. Micah would come by himself throwing arthur and him off a cliff as Miss Grimshaw and lenny rush down to help with arthur gaining assistance or overall winning the fight this time dutch wouldnt come and micah would be left to die or killed right there as Arthur Lenny and grimshaw run off to join John
I think when Arthur returns from being held hostage Micah released that Arthur wasn’t going anywhere so he need to convince Dutch to cut him loose or at lest revoke him from the position of right hand man
I wore a mask and they removed it when I first play it I didn’t know it was part of the game when I passed out on the street I went to the doc then later realized he had TB and was part of the game 😂
I think Arthur would still seal his redemption by helping John escape. Micah would never go back to try and kill Arthur and John would get convinced by Arthur to not go after Micah (he would also not have much of a reason to)
I think in a way, Arthur needed to pass for the rest of the survivors to flourish. I think after Arthur passed, Dutch didn’t feel the need to go after everyone else. But if Arthur had survived, he would’ve hunted everyone down to get his revenge, as Micah would tell him to do so.
He would have continued to be a serial killer and thug
If Arthur haven't gotten sick, in the end with the high honor. Arthur would have potentially survived and maybe Arthur would be the one to go after Micah. Also that Arthur would have followed Dutch more and not have doubted him as much as he did.
well.. edgar ross knows about arthur and the dutch gang, arthur seen the red flags of dutch, both before the diagnosis. the only thing that would have changed is his strengh troughout the game.
I think if the the important gang members survived. Sean, Charles, Hosea and John will definitely stand with Arthur against Micah
I think Arthur would went a similar path if he lived he run a way with marry and john not have found by ager ross because probably not go after miach since Arthur not be dead and he probably would kill miach anyway
Arthur would've at the VERY least tried to let the women and Jack go whether he was sick or not.
even when he was in completely perfect health on the fishing trip with Jack you can see he outright *stopped* himself from killing Ross and Milton right there. *solely* because he didn't want Jack to see people die and obviously cared about his safety and everything.
so if everything went on, and everyone still died and the ONLY difference is that Arthur never got TB.
I think he definitely would've changed seeing Dutch become far more violent, and watching so many members of the gang he loved die back to back to back.
cause you also gotta remember, John wasn't dying at all *yet he saw exactly what was happening plain as day too.*
there's also how Charles works as a great Moral Compass AND the fact that he actually helps Eagle Flies and Rains Fall for the first time BEFORE ever getting really sick and learning he's on borrowed time.
I personally think the events that happened near the end would have changed slightly, I think Arthur would have still spit off from the gang due to the way he was being betrayed by Dutch & Micah, and the showdown at beaver hollow would have still happened, and he would have helped john escape. However either one of two things would happen, There would have been that same fight with Micah on the hilltop except Arthur would have mopped the floor with him, and killed him there in front of Dutch, or Dutch would have talked Arthur into sparing him being the smooth talker he is, and they would have parted ways, and Arthur would have left with john to stay with them in blackwater & the epilogue would have still played out except with Arthur right there with john
OR Arthur would have killed Micah, Dutch then shoots Arthur, and that sparks the RDR1 events minus the epilogue, its fun to think of what would have happened if he didn't get sick, and its sad to see the (IMO) best character in gaming history get treated/die the way he does but it really does setup RDR1 and make the story that much more enjoyable, and on top of that they left the story beautifully open for a RDR3 to see the start of the gang up to the blackwater massacre, Where hopefully we get to see Arthur in his prime whilst I hope we play as mac callander.
Arther would have won that fight at the end of the game
Arthur was hunting bears alone before TB heck even with TB mf was hunting crocodiles and wolves. If arthur wasnt sick , micah is DONE. COOKED.
I think if Arthur didn’t become sick, Dutch would’ve actually been more mad at him. he views him as getting soft because of his sickness. If he wasn’t sick in Dutch’s eyes, he wouldn’t have an excuse..
I believe the gang still would’ve went downhill, but Arthur would’ve killed the fuck out of Micah
Honestly if Arthur didn’t get sick he probably would have beat Micah I survive
next theory : did hosea faked his death
He most certainly did not
Hosea’s in witness protection
@@littleaqua32 Why would he be in witness protection? Witness protection for what? Getting shot in the chest and bleeding out?
@@infernostormy2985 body double?
@@littleaqua32 But why would he be in witness protection? What’s he a witness to?
If Arthur never gotten sick, survived rdr2, would John go after him in rdr1?
He would be shocked at what John Marston looks like. To be honest his death isn't necessary because Charles Smith didn't die.
imo dutch was foul for making micah his right hand towards the end, micah was only around for like 6 months at the beginning of the story as arthur has been with him since he was young.