Light weight and high torrque, we see improvements to this every year and i wonder where it will end. I think the Spesh SLs and other lightweght bikes clearly illustrate what an ultimate emtb will be :)
Steve. Very thoughtful video. Would the "340-345mm" bottom bracket height you mentioned in this video be measured without (unloaded) or with (loaded) rider on bike? Question being asked by a Levo SL rider who likes a lighter e-bike for trailing and bike parks...Not a jumper. Many thanks.
I think my 2019 Merida E160 900E is still the best trailbike ever made when value for money is also a consideration. Every component is the best money can buy, and at $7000 Australian its value has never been, and appears will never be matched as e bike prices skyrocket. The 150mm/160mm e bike is definitely the swiss army knife of bikes ( can do everything, and everything well).
Nice review. Hard to say anything negative with these newer high end emtbs (except pricing obviously). Funny we’re now talking about an allround trail bike for what was considered an Enduro bike with slack head tube angle just a little while ago. Good comments & walk around! 👍
trek really need to start working with ohlins and need to start adding coil shocks to their rails... my rail 9.7 was a total different machine once i installed an Ohlins TTX 👌 best bike in the world ❤
Great content, what is always lacking from Bike reviews (normally done on high end specs) is comments on the lower price point spec of the same models being reviewed. Those purchasing higher priced bikes generally know a lot more if what they're talking about and what they want. Those buying entry level or lower spec bikes (with lower budgets) will generally be less 'educated' on componentry and geometry. Let’s see more discussion of entry level spec bikes of the likes of the Trek Rail, Merida eOne-Forty/Sixty, Focus Jam2 etc etc. Thumbs up though.
I have to admit. I really love my Rail-7. I’m almost exclusively in ECO mode and that’s enough to haul my 65 year old carcass like I did 25 years ago on the same trails and maybe the same speeds? It’s hard to say because I’m riding different parks now that I can ride to them and the old park was “improved” for the clumsy hikers. It’s still fun but gone are a lot of the tech terrain and what’s left is only due to water erosion and/or too many riders since Covid.
Always great content and insights. Bought a Norco A1 Sight VLT eBike and learning a lot and having a lot of fun in the process. Great isights in this video, cheers
Bulletproof Bosch my bum. My Cube's motor died after 18 months and 2000 miles. Still under warranty thankfully, but looking at the motor showed caked damp mud underneath the motor shorting out non-IP rated plugs. Part of it was no doubt Cube's design, but the motor connectors weren't resistant in the slightest
This is likely the highest spec Rail there is. If you look at tech specs of bicycles available, non of them have these parts. And to my understanding, the more basic aluminium version of Rail have different geometry than the carbon fiber ones. EDIT: The last thing I said I believe was mentioned on this video too. However it would be nice to know more about it. So to get the feeling of the new geometry on the lower end Rail bikes, move saddle forward and shorten the bar or did I mis something?
Im sure the Rail is great, but it looks so chunky and heavy! After Trek destroyed Klein and Fisher it's a big NONO for me :D Currently happy with the Spesh turbo Levo exp, and the SC Bullit
Gary Fisher still works at Trek and is a big part of the brand. He's been very involved with the Trek E-Bike program from the start. What do you look for in an emtb?
@@embn I know Fisher is still in the loop at Trek, but for me Trek still stands to be the huge corporation munching up the small ones :) Another way to look at it is keeping the small ones alive... not so much the case for Klein. What i look for in an ebike? Well i ride the Specialized turbo levo expert currently, and my wife is using my SC Bullit CC. I guess light weight would be first priority, range not so much for me. SL's are being considered atm :) Thank for the reply
Well you asked........ The control system just isn't right on that type of bike. The display should be more like Specialized and Giant or at least offer a minimalist opt. Probable a great bike just display is a big NO!
@@bwdown I'm talking about that display as well probably more so look at how the new Giant and Specialized are set structure wise. I think you can even disconnect the handle bar control on the Giant and just set which level of assist your in on top tube, also both the Giant (new) and the specialized handle bar control wrap right around the handle bar.
12 and a half GRAND!! wtf, you could buy a very good bike, fit an aftermarket bafang/Cyclops kit and have enough change left over to buy a 2nd hand car and a motorbike ! ;-)
Sh%t. I'm a dirtbike guy since birth, I can buy a 2023 KTM 300 XCW with all bells and whistles and 46HP and throttle body injection and 12 " travel, for 12.5K or less. An add on motor is NOT the same thing as a good e bike. Apples and oranges.
Its fitting that this review is filmed in a derelict house - most people end up living in the dog box after emptying the bank account to buy one of these
"Ultimate" is a personal thing. A fit-for-everybody Ultimate bike doesn't exist. Everyone has their own taste when it comes to the bikes they ride or buy. Personally, at the top of my list of reasons to buy a bike is looks. If it doesn't look the way I like, I'm not buying it, no matter how good it is on the trails. I'm shallow that way.
CORRECTION: The lower model Trek Rails for 2022 are NOT with the same motor IF you take into account that the new Smart Bosch systems only starts off from the Trek Rail 9.8 upwards. The 9.7 and lower models still come with the old firmware and the old 625Wh battery. And are NOT cross-compatible in any way with the new Smart system. There are differences also on the connectivity for the Mobile app between the old and Smart systems, example the support levels customisation is available only on the new Smart system, not the old even on 2022 models.
The customization options may be different because what I’ve adjusted is more of a graphic equalizer type screen, not what was shown in this video. I can basically adjust power assist level per speed point on a graph, but I haven’t played with it much beyond that so it may be the adjustability is different on those higher end models. I’m just pointing out that you can do motor adjustments if you add the Kiox or Nyon computer to the lower end models. You also get the security options to lock the motor to the computer so without that specific computer, the motor isn’t doing a thing for anyone but adding weight. Both the security locking option and the motor adjustment options are paid addons to the controller - they’re in-app purchases, but they’re a one-time upgrade and they’re like $5 or $10 so they’re not a bad thing.
My Santa Cruz Bullit crushes all. Light and planted, it’s unbelievable. The Trek doesn’t get it done on real black diamond gnar trails. I can ride trails and cover everything easily this Rail does. Going limited travel on an eMTB doesn’t make sense. Get a lockable tunable suspension and never look back. This Trek just doesn’t add up for advanced riders. For a generic consumer, yeah. Then after getting acclimated and experienced, move to the real deal…
@Google Account I’m not finding that with my Bullit. Maybe a setup issue or general user capability limitation. Get rid of the RS rear shock and replace with an X2. So many things can determine your ride quality… tire pressure, app settings, tuning suspension. Hope you can gitter figured out. I’m PNW riding Galbraith, Squamish, Tiger Mountain, and Whistler, as my more relatable terrain. The Trek Rail is limited for these places, hence my comments. BTW, it’s a great commuter bike in boost mode with locked suspension and a little more air in the tires for gravel/pave rides. 🤩 LOL! I just laugh and ride, it shreds.
I like this channel but it really seems to have gotten ' stuck in the mud ' when it comes to ideas for content, bike and product reviews are lacking and ideas for new places to ride and see are all but zero, it's getting a bit meh
This channel is too elitist. I bought an ex demo Cannondale Moterra for £2500 with 40 miles on the motor. 500w battery, RockShox Yari 160 and Debonair rear with SLX everything and the thing is spot on. I have now done over 1000 miles on it and it’s been 100%. Absolutely no need for any amateur to consider a bike of this price and therefore the channel needs to reestablish what people can afford and will be looking to buy.
Well said. How many of us can justify the price of these top end models? Most are sold to wealthy Dentists and Doctors who don't ride anything too challenging and anywhere near the capability of these bikes so it just becomes more about 'snob' value just like expensive cars. EMBN is increasingly out of touch with 80% of the rider base.
@@brentmckenzie5808 there's nothing wrong with showcasing top bikes etc, but the language used comes across as "this is what you need to spend on an ebike." When actually it's far from the truth unless you are a top athlete. I (and I would guess the vast majority of those who enjoy mtb), would feel little to no difference and have no less fun on a bike 1/4 the price of half the bikes showcased. I remember a video on here from a few months ago which stipulated annual costs of maintaining an ebike..... Again so over the top in terms of cost that content like this puts people off the sport as people will see it as unaffordable.
Bike like that would not be beaten until it is on the judgment day a better rider could be on a lesser hack.are you not going to bite of more than you can chew the fastest gun in the west and all that and getting to ride the many’s of different bike’s can crap up your thinking judgment be aware of the girl/guy who doesn’t have much to say
i bought this trek in april 2024, not happy at all, thin trp brake disks make noise, broken rear wheel bearing they dont take in garantee, noisy ride as battery moves in frame.. in general I will never buy trek again... be aware.. mine is the entry level not the 12000€ one 😮
As expected this is a bike designed for a very narrow use case. For general purpose (SUV) the headtube angle is too slack, (64.5 deg is eye wateringly bad). 29 inch wheels are lethargic and give a feeling of riding on a truck not a light and nimble feeling of 27.5. 120mm to 130mm is a better option for a general purpose use case. The newer forward geometry and wheel base are useful attributes of a stable design. General purpose ebikes don't need spiky shin gouging pedals. As shown in the video riding over craggy steep rocks in search of sheep to worry is not a general use case.
I think your idea of general use is not the same as Steve's. Pedals with pins is standard on flats for anyone doing anything besides flat trails. 150mm travel on a ebike is comparable for 130 on an Amish bike, with a motor you can add some and have zero worries about it going up. 64.5 isn't bad at all and is about the same as the Giant Trance, the slack seat tube angle when extending the seat post long is bad for taller riders though. And there is nothing wrong with 29" wheels.
![The Hidden Costs Of Owning An E-Bike - What Is The Real Cost Of EMTB? [REVISITED]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KT8jF7YyWR0/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Hidden Costs Of Owning An E-Bike - What Is The Real Cost Of EMTB? [REVISITED]](/img/tr.png)
What do you think makes the ultimate EMTB?
Light weight and high torrque, we see improvements to this every year and i wonder where it will end. I think the Spesh SLs and other lightweght bikes clearly illustrate what an ultimate emtb will be :)
Not having to pedal except for exercise;
Battery that lasts as far as you need to go.
Needs to be cheaper than buying a 2nd hand bmw
Steve. Very thoughtful video. Would the "340-345mm" bottom bracket height you mentioned in this video be measured without (unloaded) or with (loaded) rider on bike? Question being asked by a Levo SL rider who likes a lighter e-bike for trailing and bike parks...Not a jumper. Many thanks.
I think my 2019 Merida E160 900E is still the best trailbike ever made when value for money is also a consideration. Every component is the best money can buy, and at $7000 Australian its value has never been, and appears will never be matched as e bike prices skyrocket. The 150mm/160mm e bike is definitely the swiss army knife of bikes ( can do everything, and everything well).
Def. one of the best looking e-mtbs ever 👏
Maybe for the money, but still rather have a rail
Nice review. Hard to say anything negative with these newer high end emtbs (except pricing obviously). Funny we’re now talking about an allround trail bike for what was considered an Enduro bike with slack head tube angle just a little while ago. Good comments & walk around! 👍
trek really need to start working with ohlins and need to start adding coil shocks to their rails... my rail 9.7 was a total different machine once i installed an Ohlins TTX 👌 best bike in the world ❤
did you change the fork as well ?
Who make this film ? What a perfect shots! Nice .
Thanks for the awesome feedback Adam, we shoot and edit our own videos 👍
if 160mm is now a trail... what travel will make a downhill bike?
Great content, what is always lacking from Bike reviews (normally done on high end specs) is comments on the lower price point spec of the same models being reviewed. Those purchasing higher priced bikes generally know a lot more if what they're talking about and what they want. Those buying entry level or lower spec bikes (with lower budgets) will generally be less 'educated' on componentry and geometry. Let’s see more discussion of entry level spec bikes of the likes of the Trek Rail, Merida eOne-Forty/Sixty, Focus Jam2 etc etc. Thumbs up though.
Anyone else get the feeling this show is just a series of adverts for their sponsors?
Yep just watched a 16min advert for Trek 🙄
YJJ - You're Just Jelly
As am I. Dream job!
Off to look at a Rail 9.8 XT next week think at this point I’ll probably buy it, looks awesome can’t wait to get on it.
5:58 that was close
Haha! Good Spot!
That is one well crafted machine!
I have to admit. I really love my Rail-7. I’m almost exclusively in ECO mode and that’s enough to haul my 65 year old carcass like I did 25 years ago on the same trails and maybe the same speeds?
It’s hard to say because I’m riding different parks now that I can ride to them and the old park was “improved” for the clumsy hikers. It’s still fun but gone are a lot of the tech terrain and what’s left is only due to water erosion and/or too many riders since Covid.
Always great content and insights. Bought a Norco A1 Sight VLT eBike and learning a lot and having a lot of fun in the process. Great isights in this video, cheers
Bulletproof Bosch my bum. My Cube's motor died after 18 months and 2000 miles. Still under warranty thankfully, but looking at the motor showed caked damp mud underneath the motor shorting out non-IP rated plugs. Part of it was no doubt Cube's design, but the motor connectors weren't resistant in the slightest
got a mate whos bosch powered bike keeps shutting down and hes only bought it a few months ago
Did you see the squirrel at 5:58 that nearly became road kill 😳
I saw it! It was racing the E-bike for sure, the squirrel was pinned WFO!
🇺🇸🤘🏻great job. I have this exact bike coming Monday. Can’t wait
This is likely the highest spec Rail there is. If you look at tech specs of bicycles available, non of them have these parts. And to my understanding, the more basic aluminium version of Rail have different geometry than the carbon fiber ones. EDIT: The last thing I said I believe was mentioned on this video too. However it would be nice to know more about it. So to get the feeling of the new geometry on the lower end Rail bikes, move saddle forward and shorten the bar or did I mis something?
Yep. A beautiful bike 👌🏾.
Everyone brings a dog for a ride along, I bring a squirrel for faster descends!
The running squirrel on the picture at 5:58 is really fantastic :-D
Check out the kamikaze squirrel just avoiding the bike at 5:57 into the video!
5:57 Squirrel vs Pro MTB rider! LoL!
If any1 asks me to recommend a ebike I always you can't go wrong with a Whyte or trek personally I love my Whyte e180 a great all rounder
STILL waiting for a long term evaluation of ANY eMTB you guys have kept. Long term = 10,000km
how to compare with yamaha moro 07?
Is there a review of the Canyon Spectral ON CFR under way?
Excellent Review✨️
But if ur a newbie n want to purchase this bike will it be feesable
Don't you're getting ripped off overpriced
Much more
@@melbournechugging2999 absolutely 💯
@@melbournechugging2999 it seems you're right, but what isn't? I'm looking to buy my first emtb.
Be nice to have access without costs that for me would make the best emtb
Display on top tube still looks hideous. Ordered the Giant Trance instead.
But, it is nice you can easily remove the display and disable the bike until only that display is replaced.
Im sure the Rail is great, but it looks so chunky and heavy! After Trek destroyed Klein and Fisher it's a big NONO for me :D Currently happy with the Spesh turbo Levo exp, and the SC Bullit
Gary Fisher still works at Trek and is a big part of the brand. He's been very involved with the Trek E-Bike program from the start. What do you look for in an emtb?
@@embn I know Fisher is still in the loop at Trek, but for me Trek still stands to be the huge corporation munching up the small ones :) Another way to look at it is keeping the small ones alive... not so much the case for Klein.
What i look for in an ebike? Well i ride the Specialized turbo levo expert currently, and my wife is using my SC Bullit CC. I guess light weight would be first priority, range not so much for me. SL's are being considered atm :)
Thank for the reply
What Rail is this spec
Help needed is trek rail or a hiabike allmtn 7 👍
Serviceability!
Bit too much like a Trek advert for my liking. Sorry.
Well you asked........ The control system just isn't right on that type of bike. The display should be more like Specialized and Giant or at least offer a minimalist opt. Probable a great bike just display is a big NO!
Yep....I kinda agree.
You can ride it without the display if your worried about hitting it. Battery level is on the handlebar display.
@@bwdown I'm talking about that display as well probably more so look at how the new Giant and Specialized are set structure wise. I think you can even disconnect the handle bar control on the Giant and just set which level of assist your in on top tube, also both the Giant (new) and the specialized handle bar control wrap right around the handle bar.
@@nomad-pq4yw8iy7v heard rumours bosch are working on a new minimal display for the handlebar / smart system
@@nomad-pq4yw8iy7v one good thing though, you take that display off and its renders the bike useless
12.5k. I'd rather buy the 5.0 and a 2nd hand van for getting to the trails.
12 and a half GRAND!! wtf, you could buy a very good bike, fit an aftermarket bafang/Cyclops kit and have enough change left over to buy a 2nd hand car and a motorbike ! ;-)
Sh%t. I'm a dirtbike guy since birth, I can buy a 2023 KTM 300 XCW with all bells and whistles and 46HP and throttle body injection and 12 " travel, for 12.5K or less.
An add on motor is NOT the same thing as a good e bike. Apples and oranges.
So, how much did trek pay you?
What makes the ultimate E bike....good question. How about the bike not being electrically pushed forwards.
Ouch....!
£13000 ffs
Disappointed to find this is an advert
Its fitting that this review is filmed in a derelict house - most people end up living in the dog box after emptying the bank account to buy one of these
🚲
"Ultimate" is a personal thing. A fit-for-everybody Ultimate bike doesn't exist. Everyone has their own taste when it comes to the bikes they ride or buy. Personally, at the top of my list of reasons to buy a bike is looks. If it doesn't look the way I like, I'm not buying it, no matter how good it is on the trails. I'm shallow that way.
🏆🏆🏆
The price. It needs to be over 10k
CORRECTION: The lower model Trek Rails for 2022 are NOT with the same motor IF you take into account that the new Smart Bosch systems only starts off from the Trek Rail 9.8 upwards. The 9.7 and lower models still come with the old firmware and the old 625Wh battery. And are NOT cross-compatible in any way with the new Smart system. There are differences also on the connectivity for the Mobile app between the old and Smart systems, example the support levels customisation is available only on the new Smart system, not the old even on 2022 models.
The customization options may be different because what I’ve adjusted is more of a graphic equalizer type screen, not what was shown in this video. I can basically adjust power assist level per speed point on a graph, but I haven’t played with it much beyond that so it may be the adjustability is different on those higher end models. I’m just pointing out that you can do motor adjustments if you add the Kiox or Nyon computer to the lower end models. You also get the security options to lock the motor to the computer so without that specific computer, the motor isn’t doing a thing for anyone but adding weight.
Both the security locking option and the motor adjustment options are paid addons to the controller - they’re in-app purchases, but they’re a one-time upgrade and they’re like $5 or $10 so they’re not a bad thing.
It's still the same motor
I m doubting with this bike. Regarding size L
Nice bike but too many horror stories of trek not honoring warranty carbon defects and just calling it "external forces"
12.5k for a EBike …. Really….
The motors don't last that's the problem. Your mileage is miles out.
My Santa Cruz Bullit crushes all. Light and planted, it’s unbelievable. The Trek doesn’t get it done on real black diamond gnar trails. I can ride trails and cover everything easily this Rail does. Going limited travel on an eMTB doesn’t make sense. Get a lockable tunable suspension and never look back. This Trek just doesn’t add up for advanced riders. For a generic consumer, yeah. Then after getting acclimated and experienced, move to the real deal…
@Google Account I’m not finding that with my Bullit. Maybe a setup issue or general user capability limitation. Get rid of the RS rear shock and replace with an X2. So many things can determine your ride quality… tire pressure, app settings, tuning suspension. Hope you can gitter figured out. I’m PNW riding Galbraith, Squamish, Tiger Mountain, and Whistler, as my more relatable terrain. The Trek Rail is limited for these places, hence my comments. BTW, it’s a great commuter bike in boost mode with locked suspension and a little more air in the tires for gravel/pave rides. 🤩 LOL! I just laugh and ride, it shreds.
I like this channel but it really seems to have gotten ' stuck in the mud ' when it comes to ideas for content, bike and product reviews are lacking and ideas for new places to ride and see are all but zero, it's getting a bit meh
Purple pedals Steve... really...
This channel is too elitist. I bought an ex demo Cannondale Moterra for £2500 with 40 miles on the motor. 500w battery, RockShox Yari 160 and Debonair rear with SLX everything and the thing is spot on. I have now done over 1000 miles on it and it’s been 100%. Absolutely no need for any amateur to consider a bike of this price and therefore the channel needs to reestablish what people can afford and will be looking to buy.
Well said. How many of us can justify the price of these top end models? Most are sold to wealthy Dentists and Doctors who don't ride anything too challenging and anywhere near the capability of these bikes so it just becomes more about 'snob' value just like expensive cars. EMBN is increasingly out of touch with 80% of the rider base.
@@brentmckenzie5808 there's nothing wrong with showcasing top bikes etc, but the language used comes across as "this is what you need to spend on an ebike." When actually it's far from the truth unless you are a top athlete. I (and I would guess the vast majority of those who enjoy mtb), would feel little to no difference and have no less fun on a bike 1/4 the price of half the bikes showcased. I remember a video on here from a few months ago which stipulated annual costs of maintaining an ebike..... Again so over the top in terms of cost that content like this puts people off the sport as people will see it as unaffordable.
Bike like that would not be beaten until it is on the judgment day a better rider could be on a lesser hack.are you not going to bite of more than you can chew the fastest gun in the west and all that and getting to ride the many’s of different bike’s can crap up your thinking judgment be aware of the girl/guy who doesn’t have much to say
i bought this trek in april 2024, not happy at all, thin trp brake disks make noise, broken rear wheel bearing they dont take in garantee, noisy ride as battery moves in frame.. in general I will never buy trek again... be aware.. mine is the entry level not the 12000€ one 😮
Crappy old shed to make bike look better tut tut
In this video he talked a lot but didn't really said anything 🤣🤣🤣
blah, if you only need 300 watts for your ride, why can't we save 70% on battery cost and weight?
As expected this is a bike designed for a very narrow use case. For general purpose (SUV) the headtube angle is too slack, (64.5 deg is eye wateringly bad). 29 inch wheels are lethargic and give a feeling of riding on a truck not a light and nimble feeling of 27.5. 120mm to 130mm is a better option for a general purpose use case. The newer forward geometry and wheel base are useful attributes of a stable design. General purpose ebikes don't need spiky shin gouging pedals. As shown in the video riding over craggy steep rocks in search of sheep to worry is not a general use case.
I think your idea of general use is not the same as Steve's. Pedals with pins is standard on flats for anyone doing anything besides flat trails. 150mm travel on a ebike is comparable for 130 on an Amish bike, with a motor you can add some and have zero worries about it going up. 64.5 isn't bad at all and is about the same as the Giant Trance, the slack seat tube angle when extending the seat post long is bad for taller riders though. And there is nothing wrong with 29" wheels.
@@dalelakusta8143 Amish bike 😂
The motor negates most of your complaints