Thank's for showing us what really happened on this day Leslie, was too much guessing about Tangmere on the media, no surprise about the failure really as Tangmere has been thrashed to death over the last few weeks by WCR
Thank you Les, for filming this video, just to let you know i was on board the CME so experienced the failure of 'Tangmere' which was sad to see. All the passengers on board got back home on a scheduled London bound Avanti service from Carlisle, great video by the way.
Thanks. It was lucky that you were able to make the last train to London! At the same time a shame that you missed travelling on the beautiful line south of Kirkby Stephen.
Thankyou Leslie for a marathon effort to show us what went wrong. Tangmere has been flogged to death this summer and seemed to have a real clonk on the motion for weeks so I am not too surprised it eventually failed.WCRC urgently need to get more locos from the steam pool air brake fitted or WCRC steamworked trains are going to be curtailed. Whilst I have some sympathy with them the airbraked debacle is never going to get sorted out with their intrangidence and they will have to accept the ORR rulings. On another note it was great to meet you at Carlisle a week or two ago, you increased my enjoyment on my trip greatly. Thankyou.
Thanks very much! Always nice to meet people on the station! I cant disagree with your comment. I expect we'll see a few more sightings of Black 5s on their charters.
Thanks Les for the video. I was watching on Railcam on Saturday and checking RTT. When there was no times from KS I guessed it had failed. Not surprised with the noise it was makinng the other week at Carlisle. John
Now Les, great video of the sticken Tangmere, i dont comment on maybe's 34067 certainly worked hard this summer, but some interesting comments on my video off the failed Tangmere, cheers .
Thanks for this video Les most informative, as for my previous question to you 70812 is now back out and about looking very clean and tidy, must have been a major exam
We were on the CME on Saturday 21st. After Tangmere failed at KS, we were hauled back by 47802, expecting to bypass Carlisle on the southbound loop on the WCML and back to Carnforth for 86259 to haul us back to Euston. Apparently however, 47802 suffered wheel flats on the way back, so we went into Carlisle and put on the 18.46 slow Avanti service to London. To add insult to injury, slow running around Stanford and Lichfield, apparently due to heavy rain, resulted in us getting back to Euston at 23.12. A very long day.
There are various stories about the wheel flats - certainly 47802 made a return joutney to Kirkby Stephen that evening and on the day I filmed so can't have had flats. Its possible that the carriages did. However I think the main reason for the charter not proceeding main line were likely to be finding a path between scheduled trains before any engineering works. The train you caught was the last to reach Euston that evening.
@@LeslieGilpinRailways Les, the wheels flats story (we were told they were on the loco and the front two red Mk 1 carriages) is clearly falling apart. The subsequent operations of 47802 that you documented is one thing, and the emergency stop also claimed simply didn’t happen. We were having dinner during the run back to Carlisle and had there been an EBA, we would have noticed! Most trains south from Carlisle were delayed that day and we were indeed lucky to get home. Thanks again for a great video.
Thanks Jon. I misinterpreted what got flats - so many stories - but if Tangmere and its support coach (the front carriage) got flats plus the next passenger carriage they might have planned to drop that off at Carlisle. No need once the train was cancelled. The support coach stayed with Tangmere. Anyway it is becoming much clearer!
I knew him him well Horatio! We'll never know the cause, I think, only the symptom. I have been keeping an up to date analysis of what happened as the actual reports and passenger input arrives.
Damn! 34067 needs a break after hauling lots of excursions! UP Big Boy 4014 doesn't go out hauling excursions nonstop everyday on UP's many subdivisions.
These engines worked day in day out back in the day with only general maintenance at set periods unless a major overhaul was due.Its only just reappeared after some maintenance work so something has gone wrong during that down time,pistons and piston rods don't just separate!
An exaggeration . The loco been used regularly yes. but has had diesel assistance on all her trains and plenty of down time between trips for maintenance . No comparison to working days when used every day and they did.nt have the benifit of a big diesel assisting then . She.s is an old loco like all of them are now so yes a very unfortunate occurance . We wish West Coast good luck in repairing her .
Another lovely video well done great camera work as usual I am really looking forward to seeing your next video I hope you get a nice video next time also when is your next video going to be on UA-cam bye for now Philip
Good capture, Leslie. Strange they covered up the front left side like that especially if only a mechanical breakdown. Thought the loco may have hit an animal or something and needed to cover that but, that doesnt seem to have been the case.
07:56. Yes you are very much mistaken, the connecting rod hasn't been removed. You can clearly see it's still attached. Nothing has been taken off by the support crew. The piston removed itself from the cylinder and that's whats missing along with the front of the cylinder.
I'm no expert on locomotives and their workings. However if you read my description for the video I realised my error this morning. Way too tired last night after a long cold day. I;m still awaiting the authoritative reason for the failure as the crew were, rightly in my opinion, unwilling to clarify what had happened. Thanks for watching
Tis an oh well moment!! The way the steam is flailing around the front end at the least ers lost a cyl relief v/v or at most punched out front cover, thas all! If not water carry over then pistons come adrift & done the business. It happens & is nothing to be phased about. Just hope the cyl block is not damaged else 34073 will be missing a cyl block. The accompanying sound of handsome flats on the 47’s wheel sets confirm they’re not exactly having a great time right now.
@@LeslieGilpinRailways to put things in perspective I spent best part of 40 years working in & around Mr Bulleids finest ( the unconverteds) & the 3cyl Britannia type lol. 26 years spent restoring one. What surprised me was the speed er was being towed at. Would indicate that hopefully things are not as bad as they seem. I work on the principle of two laws from an ol boss of mine. There are no problems only solutions. I want reasons why you can do something not reasons why you can’t. Both served me very well in my time working with steam. Can be soul destroying & there is certainly no romance in it! I do feel for them lads, a bit.
@@davemitchell9941 you have a better understanding - you'll appreciate I have to be cautious over some comments. I agree that it's likely the fix is straight forward. However who knows what West Coast will decide to do. Certainly another black 5 is freed up from the Jacobite for the weekend.
@@shipsarerubbish thas 34073 minus her block then. Be thankful for small mercies. Least tis outside one, so boiler stays put. Considering all the HSE nonsense these days I was surprised they didn’t limit the tow to 25mph. £costs + ignorance is bliss, it seems, lol.
@@LeslieGilpinRailways I'd noticed on recent videos that WCR trains didn't always have a red taillight when moving out from Carlisle to Upperby for servicing and turning. Last LSL video I saw (Sir Nigel Gresley?) did so I'm sure the regulations and rules haven't changed. (PS: Admire your work but not normally one to leave comments).
It was a cylinder/crosshead issue. Its not a quick fix and expensive. I understand that the parts were original, Blackmore Vale is the only other one with the same parts. Everything else was modified.
Yes I'm slowly getting the proper picture of what went on though another commentor says its not a difficult fix. I'm no expert so refrained from going into detail. No doubt West Coast will make good use of Ian Riley's three black 5s as they slowly become available (one will soon be setting off south from Fort Bill to Carlisle as I type)
You may not respond to this comment but is it ok that I have used a small snippit of this video as a clip at the end of my video? I correctly credited you in my video which would be uploading for 9:30pm tonight and if you do not want your footage in my video then I am happy to take the clip out. I used the clip from 8:50 to 9:30 seconds? Best wishes from Jack!
She definitely appears to be a poorly loco. Be interesting to see what the problem might be. Great video. Only criticism (not of you)-a 47 sounds wrong without a Sulzer Engine at its beating heart.
@@christopherashley86 if it's not in steam I believe all the piston rods or connecting rods have to be disconnected. Otherwise the cylinders will be pumping air and causing resistance
Not certain, but I suspect it needs steam for lubrication of the cylinders... there's a "cylinder lubricating atomiser steam supply valve" in the cab. Even if one piston was now disconnected, the other two cylinders would need lubrication, especially as it looks as though the 47's not hanging about.
Les....The whole train load of customers off the charter train (several hundred of them !) and all the train stewards, were bundled on to the 1M18 1846 service to Euston !!! I would imagine much to the dismay of customers already on board, who thought that on a Saturday evening, they would have the train to themselves ! Lol. Derek.
I was one of them, on it with my family. We had 15 minutes to pack up all our stuff and get over for the last train back to London - which then ran behind due to storms. Not the day we had planned!
It looks like the cylinder front end got damaged with them putting a cover over it and all the leaking steam as it was towed. A bad failure but not a totally wrecked cylinder and connecting rod as some had said. As for the passengers, very puzzling why they had to return to Carlisle rather than continue diesel hauled.
I think they have spares at Carnforth to fix the engine but probably not for a while. The stock got flats during the emergency stop. Plus it would be quicker after all the delays to go back to Carlisle and the WCML. In the event the flats precluded that.
@@shipsarerubbish Well I have not seen it but it certainly hasn't exploded and the connecting rods are not all bent as some said. I forget which loco now but another had a similar failure with a broken piston ring and that was repairable
@@LeslieGilpinRailways Wheel flats explain a lot for the decision made to return to Carlisle and run ECS to Carnforth. It will take some time to repair everything even if they have spare parts yes.
A superb Video Les. Not many people are as dedicated as you. Keep warm and dry, you are not getting any younger😢
@@rodgerkey1088 thanks
Thank's for showing us what really happened on this day Leslie, was too much guessing about Tangmere on the media, no surprise about the failure really as Tangmere has been thrashed to death over the last few weeks by WCR
Thanks Mal. I've seen photos since of the damaged cylinder once the sheet had been removed / blown off but await an authoritative explanation
Thank you Les, for filming this video, just to let you know i was on board the CME so experienced the failure of 'Tangmere' which was sad to see. All the passengers on board got back home on a scheduled London bound Avanti service from Carlisle, great video by the way.
Thanks. It was lucky that you were able to make the last train to London! At the same time a shame that you missed travelling on the beautiful line south of Kirkby Stephen.
Great video and update Les. Many thanks for your dedication to the cause
@@Stevestrainandplanevideos Thanks!
Great to see a 47 in action! Were always my favourite locos. Brilliant video 😊
Thanks
Thankyou Leslie for a marathon effort to show us what went wrong. Tangmere has been flogged to death this summer and seemed to have a real clonk on the motion for weeks so I am not too surprised it eventually failed.WCRC urgently need to get more locos from the steam pool air brake fitted or WCRC steamworked trains are going to be curtailed. Whilst I have some sympathy with them the airbraked debacle is never going to get sorted out with their intrangidence and they will have to accept the ORR rulings.
On another note it was great to meet you at Carlisle a week or two ago, you increased my enjoyment on my trip greatly. Thankyou.
Thanks very much! Always nice to meet people on the station! I cant disagree with your comment. I expect we'll see a few more sightings of Black 5s on their charters.
just 10a being 10a. can't afford CDL but can afford two out of ticket staniers.
That's quite normal with Bulleids
Thanks Les for the video. I was watching on Railcam on Saturday and checking RTT. When there was no times from KS I guessed it had failed. Not surprised with the noise it was makinng the other week at Carlisle. John
I'm not sure the two were related but Tangmere needs a proper overhaul I think. Thanks for watching
Now Les, great video of the sticken Tangmere, i dont comment on maybe's 34067 certainly worked hard this summer, but some interesting comments on my video off the failed Tangmere, cheers .
@@stephenbrass1808 I need to catch up on comments on your excellent video
That was cool Leslie that you were able to get close up like that.Lovely shots at Garsdale too. All the best.
@@2010ditta thanks Tim
Thanks for this video Les most informative, as for my previous question to you 70812 is now back out and about looking very clean and tidy, must have been a major exam
@@allantavener7378 thanks! And thanks for the update
The 47 brought stock to Carlisle then all passengers was put on avanti and staff went back home and tour was cancelled excellent video
@@UKTransportVideos82 yes I heard that - last train through to Euston from Carlisle
Lovely video Les shot in wonderful scenery, i do think these rail tours hammer these older loco's!
@@jameseldershaw7194 it's beginning to seem like that although if you look over the years failures are more frequent than you'd think
Amazing video, i sadly didn’t see any of the Tangmere action this weekend but you got some brilliant shots of it at Kirby Steven!
@@TRAlNVlDEOS thanks!
Superb video Les you excel yourself.
@@derekhartas3770 thanks!
We were on the CME on Saturday 21st. After Tangmere failed at KS, we were hauled back by 47802, expecting to bypass Carlisle on the southbound loop on the WCML and back to Carnforth for 86259 to haul us back to Euston. Apparently however, 47802 suffered wheel flats on the way back, so we went into Carlisle and put on the 18.46 slow Avanti service to London. To add insult to injury, slow running around Stanford and Lichfield, apparently due to heavy rain, resulted in us getting back to Euston at 23.12. A very long day.
There are various stories about the wheel flats - certainly 47802 made a return joutney to Kirkby Stephen that evening and on the day I filmed so can't have had flats. Its possible that the carriages did. However I think the main reason for the charter not proceeding main line were likely to be finding a path between scheduled trains before any engineering works. The train you caught was the last to reach Euston that evening.
@@LeslieGilpinRailways Les, the wheels flats story (we were told they were on the loco and the front two red Mk 1 carriages) is clearly falling apart. The subsequent operations of 47802 that you documented is one thing, and the emergency stop also claimed simply didn’t happen. We were having dinner during the run back to Carlisle and had there been an EBA, we would have noticed! Most trains south from Carlisle were delayed that day and we were indeed lucky to get home. Thanks again for a great video.
Thanks Jon. I misinterpreted what got flats - so many stories - but if Tangmere and its support coach (the front carriage) got flats plus the next passenger carriage they might have planned to drop that off at Carlisle. No need once the train was cancelled. The support coach stayed with Tangmere.
Anyway it is becoming much clearer!
Alas - poor Tangmere - and she was going great guns as she sped through Appleby.
I knew him him well Horatio! We'll never know the cause, I think, only the symptom. I have been keeping an up to date analysis of what happened as the actual reports and passenger input arrives.
Damn! 34067 needs a break after hauling lots of excursions! UP Big Boy 4014 doesn't go out hauling excursions nonstop everyday on UP's many subdivisions.
@@snocoelevators the Big Boy runs longer distances though. But I know what you mean
West Coast have flogged this fine Loco mercilessly this year, something was bound to give, this is my humble opinion.
Can't disagree with you! Thanks for watching
These engines worked day in day out back in the day with only general maintenance at set periods unless a major overhaul was due.Its only just reappeared after some maintenance work so something has gone wrong during that down time,pistons and piston rods don't just separate!
They are limited as to what locos to use cos of using coaches with cdl no wonder she broke great film 👍
An exaggeration . The loco been used regularly yes. but has had diesel assistance on all her trains and plenty of down time between trips for maintenance . No comparison to working days when used every day and they did.nt have the benifit of a big diesel assisting then . She.s is an old loco like all of them are now so yes a very unfortunate occurance . We wish West Coast good luck in repairing her .
You're far from alone with your opinion.
Wow brilliant detective work and video. Aye the Spam Can been flogged far to hard this summer Shame on West Coast .
@@davidmatheson8172 I'll be putting a more accurate report in the video description
47802 definitely has a Sulzer engine.
It does
Thanks for the gen on the wagon...
A lot will have forgotten why its therre!
Poor old Tangmere - no steam locomotive deserves this. With the lack of news from WCR it seems like they're pretending this never happened.
@@brucelamberton8819 well it certainly did happen!
Great video well done Leslie
Thanks!
great video Les well chased i heard it had dropped a piston but don't quote me on that matey time will tell thanks for sharing stay safe a t b Syd👍
@@sydwoods.woodsendjunction9492 the piston rod became detached and threw the piston I think
A brilliant new video ❤
Thanks!
Another lovely video well done great camera work as usual I am really looking forward to seeing your next video I hope you get a nice video next time also when is your next video going to be on UA-cam bye for now Philip
@@michaeltaylor1869 thanks!
Good capture, Leslie. Strange they covered up the front left side like that especially if only a mechanical breakdown. Thought the loco may have hit an animal or something and needed to cover that but, that doesnt seem to have been the case.
@@1701_FyldeFlyer the cylinder casing was missing and the cylinder may have been a bit bent.
Those little toots from 47802 coming to the rescue 😢
lol and waking up the support crew
07:56. Yes you are very much mistaken, the connecting rod hasn't been removed. You can clearly see it's still attached. Nothing has been taken off by the support crew. The piston removed itself from the cylinder and that's whats missing along with the front of the cylinder.
I'm no expert on locomotives and their workings. However if you read my description for the video I realised my error this morning. Way too tired last night after a long cold day. I;m still awaiting the authoritative reason for the failure as the crew were, rightly in my opinion, unwilling to clarify what had happened. Thanks for watching
I was on the train and they said that they had to remove a rod on the loudspeaker
Well, that's tough to see, but a nice bit of journalism to hunt down the story, so to speak, and get some video of it all!
Thanks Anthony. It was cold too with a long time between trains!
Definite a Sulzer LDA 28C engine
Tis an oh well moment!!
The way the steam is flailing around the front end at the least ers lost a cyl relief v/v or at most punched out front cover, thas all!
If not water carry over then pistons come adrift & done the business.
It happens & is nothing to be phased about.
Just hope the cyl block is not damaged else 34073 will be missing a cyl block.
The accompanying sound of handsome flats on the 47’s wheel sets confirm they’re not exactly having a great time right now.
I'm no expect so cant comment. Thanks for watching
@@LeslieGilpinRailways to put things in perspective I spent best part of 40 years working in & around Mr Bulleids finest ( the unconverteds) & the 3cyl Britannia type lol.
26 years spent restoring one.
What surprised me was the speed er was being towed at.
Would indicate that hopefully things are not as bad as they seem.
I work on the principle of two laws from an ol boss of mine.
There are no problems only solutions.
I want reasons why you can do something not reasons why you can’t.
Both served me very well in my time working with steam.
Can be soul destroying & there is certainly no romance in it! I do feel for them lads, a bit.
@@davemitchell9941 you have a better understanding - you'll appreciate I have to be cautious over some comments. I agree that it's likely the fix is straight forward. However who knows what West Coast will decide to do. Certainly another black 5 is freed up from the Jacobite for the weekend.
@@davemitchell9941 The block is broken. A big job for the lads at Carnforth this winter
@@shipsarerubbish thas 34073 minus her block then.
Be thankful for small mercies.
Least tis outside one, so boiler stays put.
Considering all the HSE nonsense these days I was surprised they didn’t limit the tow to 25mph.
£costs + ignorance is bliss, it seems, lol.
The locomotive was kept in steam from the previous day?
@@sharonedwards6641 yes to allow it to run in light steam (believe it or not) behind 47802 to Carnforth
At 6:51 when the 47 backs on to Tangmere it has no lights on the front, and white lights on the rear. Is this normal?
I've noticed that happen before - it is only shunting into the siding but not sure whether its right or wrong
@@LeslieGilpinRailways I'd noticed on recent videos that WCR trains didn't always have a red taillight when moving out from Carlisle to Upperby for servicing and turning. Last LSL video I saw (Sir Nigel Gresley?) did so I'm sure the regulations and rules haven't changed.
(PS: Admire your work but not normally one to leave comments).
It was a cylinder/crosshead issue. Its not a quick fix and expensive. I understand that the parts were original, Blackmore Vale is the only other one with the same parts. Everything else was modified.
Yes I'm slowly getting the proper picture of what went on though another commentor says its not a difficult fix. I'm no expert so refrained from going into detail. No doubt West Coast will make good use of Ian Riley's three black 5s as they slowly become available (one will soon be setting off south from Fort Bill to Carlisle as I type)
In other recent videos of TANGMERE, you can hear that there is a defect in the loco's motion, clanking , coupling rod issue ?
That's very common with Bulleids
@@DOCTORDROTT I'm told it needed a good load of grease on it's motion.
i heard it was an AWS issue and not a loco fail (as such)
@@nickedwards2904 the day Tangmere was failed at Preston was AWS/TPWS failure.. This latest issue was mechanical failure with piston rod disconnected
I thought you said it was cold, there was a bloke on the platform in shorts.
Some strange people around there!
You may not respond to this comment but is it ok that I have used a small snippit of this video as a clip at the end of my video? I correctly credited you in my video which would be uploading for 9:30pm tonight and if you do not want your footage in my video then I am happy to take the clip out. I used the clip from 8:50 to 9:30 seconds? Best wishes from Jack!
Jack thanks for asking and I'm happy to say ok!
She definitely appears to be a poorly loco. Be interesting to see what the problem might be. Great video. Only criticism (not of you)-a 47 sounds wrong without a Sulzer Engine at its beating heart.
I thought that 47 was sulzer fitted - it has a sticker saying so on the cab side! Thanks for watching
That one still has. It's Class 57s that have been re-engined
@@LeslieGilpinRailways It might just be my dodgy hearing, as it sounded as though it had a 66 power plant inside. I stand corrected.
I thought that it was Class 57 that have General Motors engines fitted?
According to my records 47’s still have Sulzer 12LDA28C engines.
Why did Tangmere need to be in steam in order to be dragged by the 47?
@@christopherashley86 if it's not in steam I believe all the piston rods or connecting rods have to be disconnected. Otherwise the cylinders will be pumping air and causing resistance
Not certain, but I suspect it needs steam for lubrication of the cylinders... there's a "cylinder lubricating atomiser steam supply valve" in the cab. Even if one piston was now disconnected, the other two cylinders would need lubrication, especially as it looks as though the 47's not hanging about.
Les....The whole train load of customers off the charter train (several hundred of them !) and all the train stewards, were bundled on to the 1M18 1846 service to Euston !!! I would imagine much to the dismay of customers already on board, who thought that on a Saturday evening, they would have the train to themselves ! Lol. Derek.
@@shinymac yes I'd heard that. At least they'd get back to London fairly quickly.
I was one of them, on it with my family. We had 15 minutes to pack up all our stuff and get over for the last train back to London - which then ran behind due to storms. Not the day we had planned!
It looks like the cylinder front end got damaged with them putting a cover over it and all the leaking steam as it was towed. A bad failure but not a totally wrecked cylinder and connecting rod as some had said. As for the passengers, very puzzling why they had to return to Carlisle rather than continue diesel hauled.
Not a totally wrecked cylinder?... Ummmm. yes it is. The front of it completey missing. It's scrap now and will need a replacement.
I think they have spares at Carnforth to fix the engine but probably not for a while. The stock got flats during the emergency stop. Plus it would be quicker after all the delays to go back to Carlisle and the WCML. In the event the flats precluded that.
I couldnt find a clear photo of the damage to be satisfied enough for a proper explanation.
@@shipsarerubbish Well I have not seen it but it certainly hasn't exploded and the connecting rods are not all bent as some said. I forget which loco now but another had a similar failure with a broken piston ring and that was repairable
@@LeslieGilpinRailways Wheel flats explain a lot for the decision made to return to Carlisle and run ECS to Carnforth. It will take some time to repair everything even if they have spare parts yes.
Isn’t it about time they give the poor girl a rest, Tangmere must be exhausted. Are there not any other steam loco’s they can use for these tours?
@@anthonywillis5249 West Coast use Ian Riley's black 5s but the available one was on a charter to Scarborough that day
Tangmere doing it's best Darth Vader impression
Indeed with lots of atmosphere
Is there any truth it was AWS failure rather than a loco issue? thats what i have heard anyway
@@nickedwards2904 that was the failure at Preston. This was in a totally different league
Awesome
Thanks!