What Engineers Found When They Tore Apart Tesla's Model 3
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Oct.17 -- Tesla's Model 3 boasts the best technology and motor of any electric vehicle, but a team of engineers in Detroit say there's a major flaw in the car's design that's hurting Tesla's profit margins. Bloomberg Television's Ed Ludlow reports.
“The body is too stiff” well that too stiff body earned a perfect 5 stars in crash test and is the safest vehicle you can buy so...
Mike Wright and production delays have nearly driven Tesla off a cliff with cash reserves becoming dangerously low
Only it didn't get a perfect 5 star score though did it. On the IIHS tests it had a brake failure and a seatbelt failure.
THiNk aBoUt it. How would this impact auto insurance business? Auto insurers are better off with fewer fatal accidents to pay out to. Insurance works better if no one gets in accidents given government forces everyone to have auto insurance.
@@themightydash1714 I don't believe IIHS tests are out for the model 3, can you share a link?
www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/national-highway-traffic-safety-administration-issues-statement-about-new-car
"NHTSA does not distinguish safety performance beyond that rating, thus there is no "safest" vehicle among those vehicles achieving 5-star ratings."
Talking about Model 3 but showing clip of Model S. Lol. Great work.
Almost as good as the advert that showed a model S with an ICE drive train in it....
Chevy BOLT with a B. Stock Image shown is a Volt with V a Hybrid.
All they know is smear
if they just improves their manufacturing process they would be making a lot more money everything else is great
I was going to comment the same thing lol
“When they tore the Tesla Model 3 apart, they found out everything was wrong with it. Because it actually was a Model S”
Thats true :)))))))))))
Yo I like this comment
Totally an S.
😂😂
Lars van der Hooft indeed. Thought same 😂😂
„He tears apart a Tesla Model 3“
Shows Tesla Model S🤦🏼♂️
Lucas Oehms yeah wtf was thinking the same thing lol
Possibly because he has torn apart the model 3
Same with showing a Volt when he refers to the Bolt.
🤣🤣
@@muderer_executioner j
GUY: tesla's body is too complex
ELON: hold my cybertruck's single piece of folded steel
They be like: *_surprised pickachu face_*
It's not folded. Rather it's cut up and welded together at angles
@@elmera4411 www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/teslas-origami-style-design-cybertruck-stainless-steel-exoskeleton
They fid recognise that the cybertruck is avove all competitors
Elon took this advice waaay too far
The music in this video isn't loud enough. You can still hear what the man is saying.
When you can't handle criticism and just want to drown out anyone who offers an alternative viewpoint.
Gg
Amen --
You're the man!
Why anyone even NEEDS music in an informational video is beyond me. And if you gotta have it, please at least check your levels before you drop your video.
0:20 says tesla model 3 shows old model s. 0:37 says chevy bolt shows a chevy volt. Great work.
it's good journalism man! spent 0.3 seconds on google hhh
That is mainstream media for you.
AND the thumbnail
That kind of attention to detail is why you should never trust Bloomberg.
I watched to just criticize because the thumbnail was wrong. Wow.
I hate when the supposed underlying music is louder than voice over. I hate it.
same here, how about no music
Exactly. I couldn't even listen to this video.
It's especially true on pointless videos and narratives... just like this one.
Agree Cut the idiotic music. This video is loaded with content that is explained by the experts. What bloody value does the background music add here? Dramatization? Hate it. Cut it.
Subtle poke at Christopher Nolan
“Tesla’s Model 3..”
*Model S 2012 rolls up*
"Chevy Bolt" shows a picture of a Volt.
@@Dankman9 I still can't figure out why GM named that way unless they plan to stop selling Volts.
Probably has something to do with that bailout money. Also in most of europe they have the same name (Opel Ampera) but the bolt gets an "-E" attached to the end. So maybe they kind of see it as a different version of the same car? Kind of like a civic hatchback compared to a sedan hybrid? I dunno just pulling stuff out of my ass like they did. ;)
Awesome editing - mentioning a Model 3 and showing a Model S 😂. Please fire the editor!
Agreed
also saying chevy bolt and showing a chevy volt
Fire its too much dont be stupid
Agreed
IKR? Don't give us the "big reveal" introduction sayin "The Model 3" showing us a first gen Model S... so dumb...
Well seeing as you've featured a Model S and not a 3, and also mentioned the wrong Chevy - I think you need to go back to the drawing board 😒
Daewoo* Fixed that for you lol
Not only was it a model s and not a 3 but it is an old one not the refreshed ones. (New ones without the plastic piece in front)
Samuel Brooks i knew it wasnt a model 3 it was the old model s desing
Samuel Brooks facts facts😂😭
Yea... Wrong Tesla... But they did say the right Chevy. They said Bolt.
He said "Nobody would be able to catch up"
Nobody has yet, 7 years later.
They didn't even realise they had the model S that's how far behind they are.
Miyuden lmao
Stan Mayer
Nikola Tesla
Walter Russell
Nassim Haramein
...
@@doudsbass Any of them managed to build cars for the public worldwide? I would have loved if Stan Mayer would have done it to before his death. I like the idea of tanking only water to drive.
Munro and associates tore apart a model S last winter. stock footage as most results were the same
@Kaven Gilbert Hahahahahaha, I'm waiting. Will they do Solar Panels too? Power Peak stations? Charging infrastructure?
I'm happy when they catch up, competition is great, but eat Tesla? No way.
Hate to break it to you but that is a Tesla Model S
ok they use image from model s and x but what he has is a model 3 body
I was gonna say!! 😂
They also got the Chevy names wrong.... it’s a Chevy Volt not a Chevy Bolt.
The edit is sloppy and incorrect. The Engineer actually knows what he is talking about, the film crew is just dumb and show the wrong cars. Engineer is actually talking about the 3
Actually there are 2 different kinds. The Chevy Volt and the Chevy Bolt coming out in 2019. Maybe he tested this car early. It's very possible. I don't know where it shows the bolt and bmw so check if it is a bolt or not.
0:20 model 3? That’s a model S
And it even is one of the old ones.
yep, kinda fucked it up no?
They also showed a Chevy Volt, not Bolt.
In America 2018 Jan to Sep Tesla sold 114102 cars, All other brand Ev sold 28846 cars. Just a fun fact.
That showed an old generation of the Model S and not a Model 3! Whoever did the video edit didn’t know what the heck they were editing. Hey Bloomberg you should make a correction video to show the right Tesla model.
"Tesla model 3" , shows a Old Model S
Steven Colbare
How was his comment anti Elon?
This is bloomberg what do you expect
Hey Siri it's bloomberg and a lot of lefties reside here?
Tadeu Ferreira clicked on this video just to comment this lol
And they said Chevy Bolt and showed a picture of a Volt.
Up date, Tesla can now cast the largest aluminum parts in the auto industry. Reducing the number of parts in the body by hundreds.
U mean stamping right?
@@franchocou nope, he means casting. using an aluminum alloy tesla came up with in house that does not need to be heat treated afterward.
Aluminum is a beach to fix once it gets a crinkle in a car crash. I know. My car had an aluminum hood, and when I rear ended some truck I was using a sledge hammer to bend back the metal. That is on a 1965 MGB. It can't be heat treated as aluminum will not glow red hot but will break apart like a jigsaw puzzle. It can't be heat shrunk. Steel can which is why they use steel.
Eric, you sir are correct! 🙂
@@franchocou its casting
I never wanted a Tesla before, but all this hate makes me want one more. Clearly they are scaring powerful people.
Powerful people? The youtube commenters? Or the engineering firm lol? They don't work for anybody they do this to many cars and give analysis. Conspiracy-sheep.
Calm down there buddy.
LOL They (Bloomberg) work for their advertisers, of which Tesla isn't one, and many rival automakers are... How is that a conspiracy?
I'm not the only one who noticed clear bias, Keith.
Dorian Wilson You're noticing something that simply isn't there. This was a positive video that basically said Tesla is ahead of its competitors on every system in the vehicle except the body, which seems like a valid point. The guy almost had an orgasm about the motor design. Did you even watch the video?
This ‘reversed engineered’ Tesla is now sold to China for their future ‘Tasle’.
They promised to fix the rigidity problem lol.
But since Tesla also has a Chinese market now, they could sue for IP rights infringement...
TASLE, ha ha ha. What a rip off car name. They could get the reverse engineered all those file's.
But software is not easy as it looks. I think so.
@@aycc-nbh7289 a foreign company basically can't sue a Chinese company. The courts and laws there are highly protective of natives. And if by some miracle a case gets past those hurdles, there will be other pressures on you to drop it.
China is a fucked up place in so many ways, and the more you learn about it, the more you realize that your Western paradigm does not apply.
at least you haven't disabled comments...
Donatas Simkus golden
Donatas Simkus
People here just cry, not understanding R&D, this is an oldskool guy, it's engineer around the battery solution.
Why you need this Bloomberg content, or the UA-cam reactions on chat... Investors are skum people, you just can't trust them!!!! Low level cry people will never understand anything, they just cry.
Ikr
e
Guess who would have disabled the comments?
**names all the reason that it has a perfect crash test rate**
He's right about the issues with the metal frame. I believe those have been resolved now.
Dennis Polz the bmw i3 had a better
Crash rating and saying if it is to hard to built doesnt mean it is safer
also i8 costs about three teslas.. and very unreliable 😂
@@danyala.1659 yes but these morons in the comments are just sucking dick for Tesla, it's an awesome vehicle way ahead than everyone in the case of electric vehicles but their manufacturing is too hard and slow, even though the CEO has always said that but yet these people can never accept some problems
@@eduardosalamanca3808 Yeah, I completely agree with you! I am looking to purchase a Model 3, it is an incredible vehicle. Despite this, I believe that Tesla must be held accountable for their mistakes just as ALL other manufacturers are. People have a tendency to forget that after all, Tesla is a for-profit company and Elon Musk is just another billionaire. Even Tony Stark (Iron Man) made his riches from selling weapons of mass destruction; no one becomes a billionaire by doing good.
"We watched a video from a supposedly reputable organisation, (Bloomberg), but found it to be biased, sloppy, and full of errors......"
Roger Starkey how was it biased, sloppy, and full of errors
"supposedly" is right. I frequently find inaccuracies in bloomberg news
That wasn't a model 3 they showed, it was a Model S that's a few years old. They showed the Chevy Volt instead of volt in the picture. They obviously don't know what they're talking about and don't have common sense.
Also the electric engine of Tesla as can be seen at 3:12 is a bit worrisome to me. Those silk wires can snap over time by just unravelling. If one of it does, it could set the engine on fire. I had this once with a €19.- fan. I'm quite disappointed to see this in a car with that price tag. Also, neodynium isn't used by German and the Japanese due to the Chinese monopoly on neodynium mining. China is using their monopoly position to force the handover of intellectual property by giving this to Chinese-based competitors in a "cooperative agreement". Also, neodynium mining is very bad for the environment. This is why the Germans and Japanese use copper-only engines.
@@fudgeyou3827
You *really* have to ask?
I've worked in the automotive racing industry for years... A chassis that's to stiff is something you don't hear about.
I've worked in consumer automotive product development for over ten years. And I too, can say the words "the chassis is too stiff" have never been used.
Racing... where motors are torn apart after each race...
Cars are driven for no time on... what kinda track?
Wrecked and rebuilt...
Vs the real world... just because you all are clueless... don't mean anything.
I've seen tow trucks from the 60's with plates frames, all broken in half... cause... NO FLEX IN FRAME, FRAME TOO STIFF FROM PLATING...
EVERYTHING has flex... and it is designed into the vehicles...
Wow, I guess you do know what you're talking about Matt. Because tow trucks from the 60's definitely represent built to a budget mass produced production cars of 2018.
"Hur dur EVERYTHING has flex.." Great analysis you drop kick. Vehicles have engineered chassis torsional rigidity. Read - That Tesla is built that way for a reason. Probably something to do with the ~200kg of batteries in the floor and insane torque the electric motors produce.
Not my fault that the 60s is when we learned things tesla still does not know.
BTW any diesel pick up is putting out way more torque lol... tesla just feels like it has more power because it makes that power right away...
Actually pick ups now have even MORE frame flex than they did 30 years ago... as again... we learned many many moons ago you MUST have flex or else things will break... so them saying things were too stiff... could be a very valid issues but all you retards thing stiff = safe... yet everything is made to crumple... rofl... to be safe...
So ya its 2018 and tesla is still back in the 40's not my fault...
oh let me add, they took a MASS PRODUCED PICK UP TRUCK... and plated the frame to make it "stronger" ... it took all the flex out... then... they were all breaking in half... cause...
FRAME WAS TOO STIFF...
so... again not my fault that the words "too stiff" was never heard to you...
Next video : "what engineers found in the aston martin" plot twist , ford fusion rolls up. 😄
Lmfao think God I'm not the only one that thinks Ford ripped Aston's designs
@@bombomos didnt they used to own aston martin? Therefore it's probably their design
@@jake3736 no idea my bro. I always thought Aston was a European company
@@bombomos British
The Ford Mondeo (Fusion for the US) isnt an appealing car to me, I think the comparison to an Aston Martin isnt correct. Maybe have similar shapes but you can't compare the two lol.
The title feels like humans tore apart an alien spacecraft from area 51 lol
Well Elon Musk is from another world to begin with ..... sooooo .......
@@packratswhatif.3990 true. He's trying to get back to Mars.
I think most Tesla owners will agree with me that once you own a Tesla you will never go back to purchasing gas vehicle. I love my model x.
Wish I had enough money to buy model x :*(
@Brian Anxieton
You REALLY need to check your information!
(I was going to say "facts", but that wouldn't be accurate).
Nissan Leaf owners say the same. Electric cars are just way better to drive.
Japan, China, Australia, Europe and even some countries in Middle east have the Tesla supercharging network.
Have a look at their map then... I did a 1'960 km trip using superchargers between western Switzerland, France, Spain and Portugal, it was super easy and convenient to use.
Wow there was a lot of B roll videos from 2011 of Model S betas...
and now we know that's all is wrong, he dissasembly wrong car
@@chinainfoxyz blin😂
xyz lol 😂
Correct me if I'm wrong.
The "German" stripdown actually *praised* Tesla for only using 3 (4?) Types of screw, where BMW (etc) used 40?
Yet this contradicts that.
Something's fishy!
Maybe the German stripdown was less than a year old? Munore got a hold of one of the early model 3s and they released their report almost a year ago.
@@0ooTheMAXXoo0
that's not even a Model 3 bro
They didn't like the number of body parts and awkward steps that are needed to join them together.
@@KalleKofot
Hey! Idiot!
If they *specifically* "introduce" a Model 3, then later *specifically* compare it to a Chevy Bolt, but *both* times, use footage of the wrong vehicle, doesn't it indicate that either;
1) The reporter doesn't know what they're talking about?
2) The reporter didn't watch the finished article and request a correction.
3) The reporter and/ or production staff simply weren't concerned about accuracy or professional integrity?
What does that say about the rest of the report?
Should it be taken seriously?
It's good if you have a design that accomplishes the same thing with only 3 screw types instead of 40. But if your design does that at the cost of being a completely shit design, then it's not worth it, is it.
Ford is just trying to figure out how to build it so it has to be rebuilt every 5k miles
What do you mean? that doesn't make sense
@@foreverinteriors Ford has a disaster on its hands with the Ford focus and fiesta transmissions that need rebuilt every 5 k miles. If that
LaserFalcon so that’s what the problem is, a limited supply transmission that’s built by a German company and has a 50k lifespan. That’s what going to bring down the 115 year old company that builds 6 million car per year. That one transmission? Really? Why are u fixated with this? Why? How does it affect your world. We have a virus problem buddy
@@foreverinteriors As much as most Ford fanboys are also electric haters, and as much as I would like for every company to get over the ICE (it's charming but it has run its course), I would hate to see such a company fail. From reasons of thousands of workers being laid off, to automotive legacy being lost, no true car fan would want that.
Even Elon states that he doesn't want to bankrupt anyone, just "accelerate the advent of the electric car".
Which I agree partially, and partially because it shouldn't be accelerated, it should already be a thing.
rrs fine but we don’t have to move faster. The earth isn’t going to blow up. I think we need to be methodical and precise. The faster we move, the more errors we make and the more people get hurt. I don’t like any fanboys, be it Tesla or Ford. They are biased and stupid. They simple divide people. They are also not the majority. I like Tesla , I like what they represent, what they build and how they engineer product. I like Ford and all the other products ICE, it’s my industry and the one I grew up in. Life is better when we don’t divide.
They have no credibility if they cant identify an IPM motor that has laminated magnets (Not halbach arrays) (Laminated magnets reduce eddy currents and improve performance). They also failed to identify that the computer hardware came from Nvidia. They are forever stuck in the Detroit old school world. Everyone else is moving on.
NVIDIA GPU is no longer used as of over a year ago. Older cars will get their mobos switched out for the new hardware.
Munroe and assoc. praised Tesla for their electronics saying hey were far ahead of the competition.
@@0ooTheMAXXoo0 Incoreect they still use Nvidia chips. The new tesla chip is not released for production yet. And Monroe still has no idea what they are talking about when it comes to advanced electronics or electric powertrains.
It's also a switched reluctance motor
@@ryccoh it's an IPM motor. It has magnets but also has rotor salience so it acts like a SR motor also.
The Tesla Model 3.
*shows Model S*
Just another reason to discredit Bloomberg😂
I was thinking the same thing lol. I build Model 3's and was like wait that's a model s they have on the rack lol.
*blocks bloomberg*
@splitdog homee Dude, for every fanboy on forums and UA-cam comment, there are 10 times more people in the media picking apart every small detail of Tesla, while never doing the same thing for other EV companies.
acadianalien Shut up, fanboy. You’re on a video where they say nonstop that the Model 3 is the best EV out there, but they criticize the manufacturing methods and you all have your panties in a twist. If you weren’t ridiculous fanboys you’d realize this consultancy just showed that Tesla could be more profitable if they weren’t so stubborn. You want them to succeed right? Then shut up and mix in some objectivity for once.
@@acadianalien you know something is a real good when it gets constantly attacked in the media. Tesla is a real threat to the current automotive industry.
'Experts in Detroit'. Ok, from there on you lost me on credibility..
JayyEVee loooooooooooooooool omg you surely must mean experts from detroit, aka south korea aka gm korea aka daewoo lmaoooooooooooooooo
hey in the 1920s Detroit had the most electric cars of any city in the world. and these dinosaurs are probably from that era
@@RomrotMechanikos looool yup. They still live in 1920 too
Those "experts" will more likely to steal ideas from tesla and sell them(with their own improvements) to other car manufacturers.
On a positive note when I went to Detroit for an electric car show it was cool to see some of the really old electric cars that looked like literal horseless carriages. pretty classy looking though, it probably only got like 15 miles on a full charge.
"Tears down a Model 3"
**Model S rolls in**
"thats relativity folks."
Munro and associates tore apart a model S last winter. stock footage as most results were the same
@@foreverinteriors soo... you're an apologist.
@@themartianway i have no idea what you're talking about? I suspect you're an EV and ICE novice but smarter than everyone and probably make no mistakes in front of the camera either. Sandy's is an adviser Tesla and has interviewed Musk on his show. There u go mister perfect.
A stiff chassis is exactly what you want for good handling.
I love stiff on's
Not sure irl but on games I like stiffer for handling
Exactly, unlike motorcycle, I mean race motorcycle, with car you want the chassis to be as stiff as possible so that you can hand all the handling job to the suspension system. This will improve not only handling performance but increase a predictability of a suspension when tuning.
Diminishing returns. You're limited by connections like rubber bushings in the suspension. After a certain point, you're just adding weight and potentially removing energy-absorbtion.
I imagine the reason for the stiffness is just to prevent flexing the battery pack. You don't want to stress the connections nor disrupt the contact of the cells with the thermal management system.
But not what you need in a road car it is just more expensive
Munro and Associates are well known industry veterens and were impressed with the model 3 tore down. This computer on wheels is a game changer
So distracting when the producer can’t even ID the correct brand names for the vehicles they are reviewing. Makes me wonder what else they got wrong.
, & look who's behind this video's publishing; what's their reason for doing it?
More like, what their real motive in doing all this, is.
Yes
they decided to bother with a tesla, theres another mistake
ZbladeVX and why?
No one has really caught up, 7 years later so it can’t be that bad
IKR even elon musk had to say that
Marius Ipad ok mate. Who’s stock is down from this Coronavirus crash in the stock market. All companies bar Tesla. You realise tesla has been innovating since 2003 no one else has made a decent electric car until last year and even so the range is shit and the price is high af. Tesla is in the game of developing the cheapest cars if you didn’t know that you are fucking stupid. What do you think the mass amount of people want, people who don’t care about brands or cars? They just look for a cheap efficient cars.
@Marius Ipad Do you have any proof of the Rimac having "far above" in therms of batteries then tesla. I am not a tesla fanboy nor do i plan on ever buying a tesla but i am just curious where you got that info.
you're right. You don't catch up to the loser, you catch up to BMW, Porsche, VAG, Rimac, Rivian, etc. Tesla=Trash
Scott Graham nah mate tesla is the innovator, others catch a free ride which is fine.
Title says Model 3. Shows Model S
*_Aight Bet_*
That is the editor's fault. The engineer actually knows what he's doing. The frame he's shown working on is the model 3 frame
So the worst feature is that the tesla body is built like a tank? Lol
To rigid so what is wrong with that. Guy is to funny.
So are Volvos. Tesla is on to something if they can being their costs down.
Tesla's often aren't painted properly, so the body won't be particularly tank-like in 5 years once its started to rust.
Stiffness isnt necessarily preferred, especially since it can lead to brittleness and cracking, two things that are at the top of a DFMEA of a car frame.
Also they are experts, you are not. They understand exactly how a car frame should be designed and manufactured. Those welded brackets are yesteryears tech, which is probably why they found the frame to be the worst part of the car.
I actually think this is pretty positive for Tesla. The frame is fairly easy to re-engineer.
@@jordanbell4420 Well, the Model S is aluminum, only the Model 3 has a combination of steel and alum, I chose the S.
Why are people so upset about his review, if someone told me you have an amazing world leading , popular product , BUT I think you have the potential to produce it more quickly and more cheaply , I would be like Thank you for the free advice and keep it in mind when it comes to redesigning the manufacturing process for the future models.
great comment, you've restored my hope that UA-cam commenters are capable of rational thought
@@ihatemacs9 i have to agree these comments im reading is why i think the internet was the worst invention in the history of mankind
Or you can say, watch your back old man, I'm the Musk
Spoken like a true MBA. Show me the bottom line.
The annoying part about it is Tesla is already making these improvements from the future model Y and its not because sandy said so or anything like that. It's because they learned and are constantly improving. Its like backseat driving/captain hindsight etc. I do partially agree though but Bloomberg rarely gives Tesla a fair shake.
But sir, "they" didn't build it (thank God!). Tesla did, and you're right, everybody else is just trying to get traction in the market, much less catch up.
My daughter has a Volt, and I know several others who do. They are wonderful pieces at far less money than a Tesla.
I really like Tesla, but you’re biased and a cult follower or sty like that
calls it a model three, its an s. calls it a bolt, its a volt. jesus christ
A Rural Vermonter - Qqjmcb 182 lmao, yeah pronouncing words didn’t seem to be the strong suit of this video. Did you hear him try to pronounce neodymium and mess it up? Hilarious.
@Polydynamix wrong, the volt is a hybrid. And the picture they showed was of a volt but he said bolt
@@ARuralVermonterQqjmcb182
BOOFUCKINGHOO
He said Bolt, because he was talking about the Bolt, ya dimwit.
it was a picture of a volt and he said bolt. Thats all there is to it
Bloomberg... can you not figure out the difference between a Tesla Model S and a Tesla Model 3?
Telsa Makes a Model 3 and a Model S.
@@matthewpaine6908 no shit Sherlock lol
You people are aware that what they show and what has been tested are two different things?
Talmudic Oil minions are foul and see through these days
It's stiff for 2 reasons, one there are battery packs in the floors and 2 that chassis has to deal with the instant torque of powerful electric motors
Yeah. Tell him. I am sure you know best.
@@bergrud - Then I'm not sure you understand the properties of electric motors or the consequences of deforming lithium batteries if the Model 3 had a poor crash rating he would have a point but it's in fact the complete opposite
It's also crash worthy, and out performs anything Detroit builds when it comes to impacts.
@@nomebear - Absolutely every performance car I've ever reviewed or purchased promotes how much stiffer a chassis is compared to a previous generation this is the first time I've heard a stiff chassis that isn't even defective be referred to in a negative light I'm starting to believe there is baseless anti Tesla propaganda
nomebear Yes it is. But i work with accidents and investigation. And by that experience. I do not own a tesla. Go figure.
"these are neodidium magnets"
"We don't know what type of motor it is" Really... you're supposed to be an engineer, YOU SHOULD KNOW.
Hahahahaa
@@benlawton5420 what a flop. Tesla's design must've been from an Alien tech
@@benlawton5420 it’s a new type of motor with some strange characteristics. I can see how it would take them a while to understand it. It basically combines the features of a permanent magnet motor with those of a synchronous reluctance motor. So you get the very high starting torque of permanent magnets but the very high speed efficiency of a reluctance and minimal back-emf. The permanent magnets are made of an assembly of several glued together in order to prevent eddy currents and excess heat generation. It’s an incredibly innovative motor.
@@lookoutforchris It's an IPM-synRM and it's not very new, the Nissan leaf has 2 of them.
LOL comparison was to Chevy Bolt and they put up a picture of a Chevy Volt. Massive difference, although the names are stupidly similar.
Yeah Model X is way different than Model S or 3...
wiibaron They didn't even show a Model X. It was the old design of the Model S but definitely not a Model 3.
No they didn’t
did anyone in the comments even watch the video?
they clearly said that its the BEST electric car you can buy! they are ahead of everyone else in terms of battery, motor, software, everything.
the only thing they criticised is the production cost in essence. they made the body too complex which lowers their profit margins & their compeitiveness.
if they had collaborated with ANY car manufactuerer. noone could catch up / build a better car then them. thats about the highest praise anyone could get. and all comments are like theyre bashing tesla? where? its constructive criticism. they also mentioned that elon musk said they had improved since then.
Ali Alexander this isn’t a us vs them scenario, what people are saying in defense of tesla is that the man in the Video stated the cars are “too stiff” and the chassis are “too complex” , when this chassis is the very reason the car handles so immensely and has the highest rated crash test scores. This man is used to seeing a Cost Effective Moderately constructed car chassis, its a market normal, his criticism was that it could be put together in less pieces, be a bit less rigid, and be produced faster. A major selling point for tesla however is having the safest car in history, a feat not achievable with the normal chassis tachniques employed by toyota, gmc etc. no us vs them, teslas are great. Its annoying that people look to hate on them, its an American car.
Thank you. You get it.
@Ali Alexander I will agree there are many fanboys, but you have to agree that there WAYYYY more critics out there who outright deny reality when it comes to Tesla being the future leader in the car industry. Out of context quotes, giving sales numbers without context, constantly mentioning ''competitors'' that never seem to deliver, etc. After a while you really start doubting videos like this
i totally agree im reading these comments and wodered if i watched the same video
@@fliptopmedia he is an engineer that knows way more about chasis than you will ever know damn whats wrong with you people the guy says the car is noy only the best in every area except one the chasis and everyone is bashing him the guy is an expert in making vehicles none of anyone on this comment area knows better he even says with a better chasis it would be even better since they arte way ahead of the game
So, basically the problem with Tesla is they're building cars that don't wear out in 10 years "like they're supposed to". Oh darn?
No. They're saying there are efficiencies to be gained by reducing chassis part and fastener counts.
They're also saying that mating the chassis to a slightly different suspension setup would yield improved ride and handling characteristics.
That's it.
There are MANUFACTURING efficiencies to be gained, yes. Not necessarily higher quality. Remember, the company that disassembled the car to examine its construction is concerned primarily with evaluating its competitiveness as a mass-produced product, not its outright quality.
Tesla's biggest problem by far is that they cannot build em' fast enough to satisfy demand.
@hyperstrike The model S they showed in the video (not 3 only talked about) has the lowest center of gravity of all EV cars along with air suspension. Ask any owner how planted and smooth that car is around a corner. The Model 3 has traditional suspension but low center of gravity. Drive one then tell me if it's over engineered. Yes they could save some time and money by doing it a little different but that's what makes Tesla.
@Homecomfort got it right. The video is super simple. The production process required to make the chassis is way too complicated and it's a big part of the reason why they can't hit their production target. And no, complication like this does *not* equate to overengineering (like the old Benzes) so no, it's not a guarantee of durability. In fact, with all the tech in this car, it'll cost $$$$ to keep this kind of car running for 10 years!
0:36
"And chevy bolt" 2nd gen volt shows up.
*face palm*
@@Nick.964 I'm pretty sure it's Bolt Universally
This is old news!
"Model 3"... shows a model S
"and the Chevy Bolt"... Shows a Volt
Sigh
Next model might as well be called the Chevy Nut ...
Great how you show a *Model S* whilest talking about a *Model 3* and also show the wrong Chevrolet car.
Interesting to note two years later Sandy is a HUGE Tesla fan and can't say enough about how quickly Tesla adapts and how many change orders they make every year literally adopting many of Sandy's suggestions and more like the octovalve and huge casting of the Y's rear...🚗
Says Model 3, shows Model S.
Says Chevy Bolt, shows Chevy Volt. Bloomberg? 🧐
Vloomberg
Pretty sad. I really expected better
"Bad body", yet Tesla wins all the crash safety tests.. Don't think so.. Maybe inefficient, but not bad.
Also, Munro got a hold of one of the early Model 3s last year (report is almost a year old). Tesla has made improvements since then.
Nobody said bad. They said needlessly expensive. It's wasteful and poorly designed. Tesla is new at this, of course they don't measure up to those who've been doing it for a century.
Length of manufacturing time does not a make a good car. Look at GM, Ford and Chrysler. They make cheap not good.
What they said is that the body is incredibly stiff, which is good on a race car but an excessive luxury feature or in some cases something undesirable on a road car. A stiff car is more planted but has a rougher ride.
As for safety, that has nothing to do with stiffness. In fact, a somewhat flexible frame with large crumple zones is better for crash safety since it absorbs the force of an impact.
He's not saying the chassis is bad. It's simply poor mated with the suspension system.
This leads to suspension system underperformance, resulting in sub-optimal handling and ride quality.
I would happiest man in country if i got any model of tesla.. Damn it ❤
George Shonia you won’t regret it.
You will regret it when you face outrageous maintenance cost...Tesla can charge you an arm and a kidney when they don't sell parts to external sources, you are forced to get it repaired at Tesla's dealership.
I would hate to have one of the SUVs. I saw one the other day, the guy driving looked like he was about to shoot himself waiting for the back doors to close.
i mean in the future, elec car will be everywhere, but at the moment the technology is not fully develop yet, you will regret to buy it now
"The Legend Of Texas'' i'm so sorry about you.. Really.
All that talking . Mean while tesla kicking ass every year
Sandy Munro is a huge Tesla fan nowadays.
Sure bash Tesla for not building trash
A lot, I mean a lot of newer cars are badly built, lots are having transmission and engine issues. On a lot of new Honda's they have transmission and engine issues, Toyota had 2 recalls for their hybrid cars, 1 was stalling problem and the other was they had risk of catching fire. 1 of the Volkswagen Passat models is said to be the worst engine in automotive history but nobody talks about these, no way in hell these newer cars will even last 10 years. Annoying how they bash Tesla even though other brands are failing and producing shit cars but owners do not buy the new cars, they lease the car and it's on warranty so if there is an issue they get it fixed, buy one of these newer cars and keep them for 5 years, it will fall apart one by one
Overcomplication does not mean overengineering for reliability. And yes, 10yo Teslas are going to be trash.
Actually, they are bashing Tesla about the car not being buildable.
How do you even take this as a bashing? He literally only listed one problem, and praised every single other aspect of the car.
Tesla can build the best car in the world for all they want, but if they don't get enough profit, then the company might go bankrupt, which is the main focus this video is about.
By the time Tesla go bankrupt, I hope you have luck finding a company that can fix your Tesla without specialized tools.
dang, he made it through a whole 5 minute video in Detroit without getting shot
Confident Dinosaur Productions idiot
dat. B. RAYCISS
Andy Faulk reported
Browsing UA-cam well he’s right.
F**k off! I could have said something more eloquent but why waste my time 😉
Where is _Rich_ so the Tesla can be _rebuilt_ ?
hornetluca lol yes
Love his channel
Tesla’s not perfect but still amazing what they’ve achieved so far.
Have you read the other comments about how incorrect this video is?.
How can be a body too stiff? If you have a 700hp car, you want a solid body to hold up all that troque
Exactly my point. They handle beautifully as well. *Actually, I am seeing what he means here is that perhaps it's not sufficiently deformable in the case of an accident. Not sure, he's certainly not very explicit about what he means.
@@paulanderson79 I think he just meant that they could have cut corners, saved money, and most people wouldn't have noticed.
If you don't know what you are talking then just don't do it, when the car will crash, the frame should deform so the impact won't be so hard, it will work like a spring, to amortise the impact.
@@paulanderson79 The car doesnt have as deformable a body as other makes due to its weight. These cars weigh about twice as much as others for the same volume, due to the battery pack. They will (and have) 'flatten(ed)' other cars in accidents because of the conservation of momentum. Simple physics: More mass requires stiffer frame and results in a safer car (in terms of impact force.
@@sodoi7127 I know. That's why I've questioned comments about its rigidity.
You and I share the same opinions
Stiff body to save the passengers from a fatal battery pack smash/ explosion? Sounds like a good thing to me
Basically what he is saying is, that there's not enough crumple/crash zones in the car. so when it wrecks we take more impact than the car does
again not true.... look carefully at the frame and all the videos where you see crashed cars... the front and back do fold and crumple and do protect the people inside
@@IncredibleSolv but again it was told that the frame is stiffer than usual so yes ppl will take the impact more than usual,
@@Sr.Fluffioso not unless there is absolutely no give, which I can see is not the case. Also remember that the body is mostly aluminium and the stiffness and crash protection behaviour of steel is very different and if the car was only made of steel it might be an issue with no crumple zones.
You guys know that all 3 current Tesla models are literally the safest cars you can buy, right? The probability of serious injury in a Tesla is lower than any other brand.
Bloomberg, you just completely discredited your entire organization with this video.
@Nij Jin You mean you right? People don't just see the information and think it must be true. Any educated will actually look more at it. But considering you people are already judging before thinking, you must all be in the uneducated pool of youngins.
Drew Hilbig good grief, one man makes a mistake working for a company and the entire company should be shut down
@Nij Jin Your reply is the proof you haven't looked at Tesla at all and its financials and management.
@@441meatloaf *Your reply is the proof you haven't looked at Tesla at all and its financials and management.*
@@asix9178 Typical moron that copies and paste.
Good thing that they fixed all those issues in the *_CYBERTRUCK_*
Ha ha. Sure they did. Building a concept vehicle is no demonstration of technical prowess. Thousands of guys build custom cars in their garages. Flipping a switch and building 2000 vehicles a day *profitably* is the real test.
Scott Griggs their pre-existing tech is a live-evidence of their vehicles , so please shut up
What they listed are no issues, they make the car better, they are issues from their perspective because it makes it more complex to manufacture, but instead of making their product worse, tesla comes up with better manufacturing techniques
I don't think they fixed the excessive rigidity problem. "This truck shows Tesla doesn't know what flex is" To be fair the truck window didn't flex enough that one time.
18 October 2018? Munro did that analysis months ago.
Btw, small details wrong in this news report. Shows pictures of Model S all the time, just for one minor detail. And it didn't include that the Model 3 is the safest car yet tested by the NHTSA. Which is recent news, but old enough to get into a report published on this date. Tesla have since revised their productions lines for the Model 3.
Also, watch this ua-cam.com/video/pAS-yjWj9DY/v-deo.html
Do you own a Model 3 ?
Not just any Model S, a pre-facelift Model S.
@@abelucious we do and I can testament to the car being amazing
Take this with a grain of salt since the company that conducted this analysis went on record earlier saying the Model 3 couldn’t be profitable and they had to eat crow when it turned out they were wrong. It’s clear now the company is attempting to slander Tesla because they are mad about the retraction and want to be able to claim if it was built their way it would not be profitable which just makes them look like idiots. The Model 3 is a wonderful car and this guys firm has lost all credibility. (Source: insideevs.com/munro-tesla-model-3-profitable/)
Jerry Barnacules , absolutely right. Guy can’t pronounce some of the words, let alone get the analysis right. Morons. If Tesla is an example of a “non profitable” company as they say, wow, we should all be so bad at business as Musk.
Jerry Barnacules So if he's "lost all credibility" then I'll assume you mean he was lying or incorrect in this video when he praised the innovative motor and said the Tesla was ahead of its competitors on every aspect of the vehicle except the body design. Seemed like a pretty good review to me overall -- but I guess you can't have it both ways on credibility, right?
Wondering why you have put "non profitable" in quotes? There's no debate, Tesla loses a TON of money. It's pretty easy to sell cars when it costs you 60 to make one and you give them away for 50 huh.
Tesla has never been profitable yet the market value is worth as much as ford. It’s the most overpriced stock ever, once bigger car manufacturers focus more on electric vehicles Tesla will be out of business
Reverse engineering is NOT illegal, what would be illegal is if you reverse engineered a product and then took patented elements from that product and attempted to used those patented elements in your own product without paying patent fees to the original patent holder.
Love tesla! Proud of tesla and usa!!!!!
Me too. I just bought mine today. It's really an incredible car and not just a battery on wheels. Hell, it's not even just a computer on wheels either. It's amazing.
it's African technology not US
@@chinainfoxyz tesla is legally registered as America so shut the fuck up u smart ass
Mmmmm
Tesla... Ok, be proud
USA, Get your shit together!!
xyz Let them have this one .They don't get to boast much anymore these days .
Ford workers didn’t find any KFC in the door panels like they do at their factories
Oh... having spent a few years in latin america... that comment of yours is so funny.
It is almost laughable when they load on chicken before or as they get inside the airports. They almost cry when their precious Pollo Campero is thrown into the garbage.
But i have to give it to them... their chicken is really good!
This is one of those guys who would have said......We don't need cars...we need faster horses.....
That is the exact opposite of what this man was saying. His job is to reverse engineer and look for areas of improvement. Try honing your listening skills.
jocko john He suggested how production could be made more efficient, he wasn’t being backwards at all
jocko john 😆
Well i think its ridiculous to reverse engineer something like a tesla and then complain about they way they built it when nobody anywhere makes anything that can compete with it.
And oh by the way ford dream of being able to build an electric car like a tesla but that old donkey is about 10 years away from being able to make something like today's tesla cars.
Hahaha best comment!
"better than every car except for one thing" then obviously it's a horrible car. Yes, this makes sense. So negative for no reason. Why can't you say actually this is the best car ever built and for the consumer, this company is not cutting corners.
They are masters of making good news sound bad when it comes too tesla
Because it’s poorly built with respect to manufacturability. All the production delays caused by its poor design nearly bankrupted the company
In May 2016, musk said Tesla would produce 100,000-200,000 model 3s by the second half of 2017. They ended up producing 2,000.
To be wrong by a factor of 50-100x is unheard of. And many of those delays were caused by the design.
Munro's criticisms are valid.
Teslas are expensive to repair, which is the main reason why they are the most expensive cars to insure despite being safe cars.
insideevs.com/tesla-model-s-tops-list-of-most-expensive-to-insure/
If you arrive to the conclusion that it's a horrible car based on this, well then that's just your idea of it.
This teardown and analysis is giving some pretty clear constructive criticism from someone with a lot of experience. I don't see the problem with sharing that knowledge.
This was a complete waste of time. All they did was second-guess, no actual facts
"His latest project, Tesla Model 3"
*Proceeds to show a model S*
ruben mateus what's the difference?
@@miketheyunggod2534 Both are different models from Tesla, model 3 is much cheaper with a starting price of 46.000€ while model S has a starting price of around 70.000+€ (not exactly sure what's the starting price), model S is a better car overall, but with this is more expensive. You can look that up in Tesla website
Calls a model s a model 3, calls a Chevy volt a bolt, I want to die
Chevy Bolt and Volt are 2 different cars. The Bolt is the latest one. Better check in the Chevy website before make a comment.
@@kirostar12 He knows, but they shown a Volt instead.
you wanna die! someone unwrap this bubble wrap from this guy and remove him from his safe space please!
a lot of his other points kind of ring of ignorance, too - very strange production
Chevy Bolt was the give away on determining credibility to the video.
Sandy backtracked his comments right after this video came out, about six months ago. He's since called the Model 3 one of the finest cars in America.
It might be. He said it only has minor problems with the chassis. To stiff? You die? To flexible? You die.
Also, he mostly critizied the manufacturability of the car. It is complex to build the chassis. Similar to the 2019 Audi A8 (I build them, even simple parts where split up in smaller pieces to save weight and make it safer, its the same with the model 3).
@Judith Pinkham was that English?
@@OggyGTA WTF did @Judith Pinkman even say?
@Judith Pinkham 'fraid so Judith, I never could do cryptic clues! :)
Thats not mutch of an achievement is it tho? Might be jsut me, but when someone says "good car" i think of germany or japan, not exactly america.
*Dinosaur reviews spaceship*
From this guy's perspective this car is a ufo
Totally!
Where are the big cooling fins on the tail of this crap design? Is it a carnivore?
It’s like having my dad do an IPhone XS reviews.
yea i wanted to say the same thing, these old farts cant comprehend the complexity of a tesla or ev car...
You didn't read any of his reports did you? Munro praised the car's electronics and other bits for being ahead of any other manufacturer
He cant even pronounce the magnet type
i feel like he wants to say: had this product been assembled in china like other car manufacturers xD
So the chassis is over engineered for stiffness and there is room for cost saving in manufacturing time and money. Sounds like a good problem to have.
They don't know that those over engineered problems save lives and make the car more durable. At least Tesla is willing to sacrifice in cost to make a good product.
Ben Porter the say the model 3 chassis is over engineered, yet the i3 is a carbon monocoque... yeah cause that’s not over complaining things... wtf
I forget... didnt they get the highest ratings for cabin safety....EVER? Just wondering... because if saving a buck is more valuable than saving a life.... I think you are in the wrong business.
@ Aaron Meloccaro you're right, BUT guess what investors care about.
You can over engineer something and still design it to be manufactured easily. What the main complaint of the video was is that they have so many different bolt sizes that it takes too long to assemble. When you standardized bolt sizes safety increase because you go to the nearest larger size, cost go down, labor goes down, and assembly time goes down. It’s a bad design if it isn’t designed for manufacturing and assembly
I don't want a rigid car body. I want it to be made out of wet noodles.
Yes! I was stunned when I heard this engineer say that!
Too rigid does affect torsional stability and the suspension, so there is a fine balance there. One big problem I see with this "hit piece" is that the Model 3 in very limited trim is about $50 K. The real price of the car with decent options is closer to $75,000-$80,000. I drove a Model 3 DP in Palo Alto that stickered at $80K. Nice car and ungodly quick. Much quicker than the same Class M car or AMG.
The Average Selling Price (ASP) of the Model 3 as of the end of August was $59,300. Less expensive versions are rolling out now.
The frame is designed for safety first Sandy! Most people buy cars with safety in mind first. Know your customers, Tesla does...
@Magni56 I believe he stuck with round wheels ;)
So basically the Tesla is great value.
It has a stiff body, that's a good thing, it means excellent performance
he says it like it's a bad thing.
The combination of a rust free aluminum body plus the strength of steel
parts for added safety is fine by me.
Even if it's a little over-engineered it's definitely not a deal breaker.
Seems to me like there is a weird negative spin on this video, despite mentioning
how good it is in the other main areas.
There is room for improvement for the company to redesign and make more profit,
but the product isn't compromised in any way
and is superior in every way from a customers point of view.
I would choose a Tesla over anything on the market today.
Tesla's frame is probably safer than this old man's ideas.
This old man is a brilliant engineer with a vast trajectory in Detroit. You, on the other hand, are a disrespectful poor sod making nonsensical comments. I'm pretty sure that Elon did pay attention to this old man's constructive criticism.
@@NJTDover I am sure this old man was very intelligent, but like anything new, things get missed. You on the other hand must have a low IQ.
@@drwhat4395 "you on the other hand must have a low IQ"
well that instantly shows how smart you are.
...... not very
I think engineers from Detroit should have a look at their city before they tell Tesla how to build cars.
all the white people buying power are gone from shitskinville. there's nothing to be done in detroit but let it continue to burn.
Maybe you people that like to rip on Detroit should go visit it. It’s not what it used to be.
Wtf do engineers have to do with how a city is managed? If there's something you disagree on explain it but this comment just sounds like butthurt nonsense
Another glorious revolutionary humanist socialist liberal Democrat run paradise.
👍
Strange, no mention of the reduced wiring either.
I bet this was a cobbled together piece, using either comments related to the model S, or the first (since debunked) model 3 "review"
lmao the car in this video is a Tesla Model S....
that's just a "B Roll" mistake, or lack of there being an assembled Model 3 there to shoot (they tore apart the only one they had).
lmao bro its even in there thumbnail.... It is not just a "B Roll" mistake...
They used a Model S for the thumbnail.
The body in the video they showed is clearly a Model 3,
Plus they showed an electric part that said Model 3 on it.
Loma Media What about the body of the Tesla makes it clearly a Model 3? The photos that they showed of the electrical parts look like photos that they took off the internet... Don’t you think?
Also it's Volt not Bolt. Too many mistakes for me to take them seriously. And so who's not to say all that was wrong with the frame is actually necessary for the battery pack or for better structural support?. Too much BS for me to take them seriously. LOL
These guys: "Everything is basically perfect and destroys all of the competition, but the only flaw is that body could be built more efficiently if they had more experience making cars-"
The comment section: "REEEEEEEEEEEEEE"
You mean more cheaply, like ford
Aside from argument against his body criticism that the car is so safe and strong there is another point I was introduced to. In an accident with traditional cars with large single piece components, it requires larger disassembly and removal to rebuild a damaged vehicle. In a tesla, if the body components are made up of sections, a body shop can remove, replace or repair a section more easily without as costly a repair. Making the car more modular and more easily fixed for less cost, while still retaining strength and performance. The fact is that we know most manufacturers do not care about what things will cost later for the owner or insurance. They do not care about making more easily serviced designs, they only care about their profits out the door and the hell with everyone else and the consumer after the fact. I have seen countless fords, gms and other american brands that have piss poor designs making routine service more difficult, when the asian cars are much easier to work on and are more intelligently designed. Tesla spending more on manufacturing for the benefit of everyone else and the consumer is a good thing because they care and believe in doing what is right. There is no reason why they can not do what is right and still make a profit. Everyone else only things they can succeed by being greedy and dishonest.
True on principle, but where you and I live, cars are written off very easily. Just because you glue 2 pieces together doesn't mean it's easier to repair than a 1-piece. They don't use Phillips-head screws to attach pieces, by the looks of it they weld them - meaning it's just as difficult to replace as it would be if it was just one. Suomi mainittu!
with all the futuristic investment in self driving cars and safety systems i cant believe that that is a intention arguement that testla could use unless self driving cars are more prone to crash into things then the average driver.
R
I don't hear Tesla modifying the body till now which means it is meant to be designed that way.
The heavy weight/stiffness is more likely to prevent the slightest flex to the body/battery pack and some added strength during an impact to make it less likely for the battery pack to explode immediately. Rigid body is a plus for drivers whose hobby is driving.
The modular nature and unusual bolts, it appears, designed for the Model Y.
@@taunokekkonen5733 i agree with the glue comment. the glue in the automotive world is stronger than the steel they bonded.
Okay it’s bad? Yet the safest car out of every car you took apart 😂 perfect 5 star 😂
He's not saying it's bad from safety point of view.
He's saying it from manufacturability point of view.
Doesn't mean driving tanks are practical.
That isn't the main issue either, the body has too many parts, i mean, just looking at it, for example the wheel wells, compare the count of individual fastened or welded pieces from this car to a normal one.
@edgar ralda You completely missed the point of this easily explained issue...
What exactly did he say was bad? The safety or other 5 star rated aspect?
It was from manufacturability point of view, profit margins and such. Though given the 5 star reputation, that seems a worthy tradeoff
Safety has literally nothing to do with optimization you fucking idiot
So he's pointing out a manufacturing efficiency issue, not actually an issue with the product itself!
yes. but that is kinda an issue for customers since it drives prices higher and makes tesla less competitive. not to mention the waiting times. such analysis can be incredibly valuable to a company to improve their products.
@@SteveAkaDarktimes sure it's valuable for improvement, but the price and wait time is known to all customers. It's not like it's some "hidden flaw" waiting to be discovered. The value of the product to the consumer doesn't change at all based on what was said.
The price of the vehicle isn't affected. If anything, they could be potentially losing on profit margins. The vehicle is priced to compete with other cars in the same space like the BMW M3. If anything, theres room for them to improve on the efficiency of the built. The quality of the car isn't affected by it.
Well there is another issue. Let's say the car was popular and widespread to the point average mechanics could work on them, even then the cost of repair would be much higher than average cars due to the same complexity due to the amount of extra time required for all the different bolts and unique soldered parts.
Compare that to something simple like a Smart Fortwo that has a simple solid and durable round body, with all the external parts easy to replace and repair. Or better yet, the majority of modern Toyota cars with their interchangeable engines and parts between a dozen car models, with very simple bodies on each of their models.
Its not an issue. Its a choice.
Bloomberg never did a follow up of this story, however thanks to Munro and associates we know how it improved in space of 2 years
So a team of Detroit engineers tears apart this car to look for its flaws. Not to mention that all 3 of Tesla's competitors in the USA are stationed in Detroit. Just maybe these results are biased ?
Bryce Waggoner
You people really are morons as a Mechanical Engineer he’s right. You only seen what you wanted and did not pay attention he actual praised 90% of Tesla’s work but only pointed out the body design that is over engineered. If you bothered to look there is memo’s that address this and Tesla is currently updating its process. This is part of there issues in getting cars produced as they are over a year behind in production. Stay to the facts and not an bias opinion of a fan boy.
KEVIN MANSFIELD don't waste your time on these guys, they will hear what they want to hear and call anyone who disagrees with them an idiot
Cody AU way to generalize fuck face
+Bryce Waggoner I don't think they tore it apart to only look for its flaws, they do this to reverse engineer and study it, to figure out what Tesla has done better. Maybe they then sell this information to other car manufacturers. Reverse engineering and learning from competitor products is very popular on many fields . . .
@Bryce Waggoner
Yeah... but Cody's right though.
LOL...the guy from detroit doesn't like Tesla...Who knew
I am willing to pay extra for safety.
I'm not screw that shit.
A complicated chassis doesn't necessarily mean a safe one.
@@jordanreeseyre the testing actually shows safety results
Teslas are safe. but so are other cars. too stiff could refer to many different engineering problems. maybe the chassis is too stiff, that in the event of a crash the metal breaks instead of bends, not absorbing the impact as good as it should. maybe its too stiff because its overbuild to compensate for the myriad of different parts that had to be bolted together. adapting a design for mass production is not easy, its an exercise in simplification and streamlining. I suspect that the chassis is basically the same as their early prototypes, back when they were still fiddling with it, and hasn't been properly adapted to manufacturing, which leads to increased costs and slow production.
This is the reason why everyone left Detroit already, literally outdated!
I can help him out there. The motor is a permanent magnet assisted switched reluctance motor - a relatively new variation on SRMs that appeared in the literature around a decade ago.
The chassis is deliberately stiff for better handling and crash survivability. Mass well spent if you ask me.
@nibus9 The Blacklight/Hydrino thing? I'm pretty sure that's pseudoscience and will never do anything worthwhile.
@nibus9 So you _do_ mean that thing "Brilliant Light Power" is doing and you think it's legit? Yeah, that is pretty funny.
I'd wish it were true too, but wishes aren't worth a damn in engineering.
"Dark matter" is called that because _nobody knows what it is._ These guys claim to have engineered a machine that _uses it_ in a process that extracts energy from the hydrogen in water. The latter is hardly an original claim, and has _always_ been a scam to exploit gullible investors.
Don't see what it has to do with the Model 3 though.
@nibus9 Probably the same thing they were doing when they bought fancy 50k dowsing rods for use in bomb detection.
That company claims not only to have dark matter in their lab but a way to make energy with it. Yeah, where are their Nobel Prizes?
@nibus9 Science follows where the evidence leads. A working device will end all arguments, and if it works how they claim they're getting at least two Nobels in physics.
Don't hold your breath though. There's no evidence I'm aware of that any real principle of nature exists that would allow their device to do what they claim. Nobody with relevant credentials claims even to know what dark matter _is,_ let alone how to use it in a device. If they did, they'd stop calling it "dark".
@@CluebotUK there's a thing called religion out there which based everything they believe to something which have no form at all, so somebody believing in a non existing tech is not really that weird...
So Munro found the car to be excellent and over engineered, but could be built a bit more efficiently (although it probably has improved since then). So wait for all the headlines of FUD.
He's keeping those people employed so they can buy teslas
Yep, exactly what Ford did back in the day, realised that paying more people and giving them more holiday time meant they would work hard to lower the build costs and could then afford to buy one of their own cars back and have holiday time to spend with it. Imagine paying someone $40k a year and then have them spend 80% of a years salary on the car you paid them to build.
That's not the reason. Read my comment above. Although it does help but it's not the main reason.
Teslas are very popular here in Fremont, but only for the hoyti toyie types tho. Its simply a trendy status symbol in Silicon Valley.
That’s very funny...apparently you think people in factories these days can afford to buy anything priced like a Tesla. How quaint.
Who doesnt love the fact that they employ slightly more people than absolutely necessary?
To the fanboys:
Tesla has acknowledged the problems of expense and complexity of their body design. They are intending to use the new large form factor stamping machine for the Model Y (but they only have the patent filed, and the have no working model as of yet).
The criticisms of the body were valid. 7 parts for a wheel well is far too complex, and offers no additional safety value. Using several different fastener types and manufacturing methods for each body panel and subframe component is inefficient, not to mention all the seam welding.
There are simpler designs that will yield better results.
Tesla is debunking their own fanboys. I hope they can get the new processes established for the Y. (Maxwell batteries, new wiring harness and body stamper). Constructive criticism is a good thing.
TLDR: y'all are butthurt.
JMAC LIVES you should start your own car company mr expert.
@@kushkill1 oh wow great reply. 10/10
OK, so they built the body "all wrong". The same body that broke the testing machines and earned a safer crash test rating than any car in history🤔 (model S)
Perhaps the other car companies need to start building their bodies "WRONG".
The real question to ask is WHY have the major car manufacturers fought so hard AGAINST making electric cars. I imagine it's tied to the truly stagnate MPG numbers.
I mean what are the odds that the Camaro, Mustang, and Charger V-6 or V-8 have almost exactly the same MPG/HP ratings? Aren't they supposed to be in competition? Shouldn't one be different? And the economy cars aren't any better. ie, 1977 Datsun B-210 MPG ratings hwy 42 city 28. You almost have to drive a hybrid for that MPG after 40 YEARS of their improvements and hard work
Trace 23 I don't care either way but I think their entire point of saying it was built "wrong" is the cost, not the safety.
Correlation is not causation - because we’re not engineers we can’t say that the “poor design” of the body’s build increases its safety
Crumple zones, low center of mass and frame rigidity are why it beats conventional cars in safety crash tests. Body improvement could likely improve safety while still simplify construction and cost to produce. I side with the engineer.
"fought so hard not to make electric cars"
Boards of directors speak in terms of Financial Risk. The watch and see approach is safer.. hence the tip-toeing.
@@ME-kp5iz it did beat Volvo too.
No such thing as ‘the body is too stiff’, especially when dealing with the torque loads and lateral stress this car can create. GM employee bullsnap. The cars they compared it to are not in the same league. What a great way to transparently show bias.
He is looking at the car from a perspective of making a car for profit. There is no reason for the model 3 to have a 3 second 0 to 60 capability, so no need to have the sort of body this requires. I'm sure it is an amazing car and I'm pretty sure no one will try to build one like it... mostly because the big iron auto makers want to make profit. Something they are pretty good at in general. By 2023 the auto world will be very different from today and Tesla may or may not be a part of it.
@@rickcollins1825 Tesla is 5 years ahead of everyone. GM and ford pulled out of sedans, giving tesla way more room. The question is if gm and ford will still be around, once new ev makes make trucks, they are screwed. Kona, bolt, i-pace, niro, etc. All these car lose half their value or more in 1-2 years because they lack everything tesla has. Sales will plummet next year when people realize this and as tesla keeps getting cheaper brand new.
@@_PatrickO Not sure what you are saying exactly. GM and the other auto makers understand the market. They are cutting back on making sedans because they know the SUV/crossover vehicles are what sell today... and pickups. The first EVs they sell will be crossovers... but not here. GM knows the big market is in China, so they are selling there first.
Don't think what they are selling today is what they will sell in even just three years time. All the big iron makers have big plans and will do a good job of executing them. Part of that is charging though and that will take a few years to get in place.
@@rickcollins1825 GM knows nothing. They screwed up their sedans so much they are pulling out of that sector and conceding it to competitors. That is what happens when you have poor quality and overpriced cars that devalue fast. The notion that they will come up with some new EV that can even compete with a tesla in a single try is laughable.
@@_PatrickO Ok, you are one of the people who think Tesla has done something magical. They have pulled off a great feat in bringing a car company to fruition, a difficult task. The cars they've built are good cars in many respects. They are not the sort of cars the masses will be buying. Today everyone buying any EV is an early adopter willing to put up with lots of inconvenience. Tesla has virtually no competition at the moment, so all these early adopters are buying the Tesla products.
In four years when nearly everyone is making EVs and charging is not such a problem, you will see EVs sold based on all the usual factors that sell ICE autos. The question is will Tesla be able to dominate the market then? Oh, keep in mind that most car makers are hitting the Chinese market first. The US is a secondary market, so Tesla's lead here may or may not be a factor going forward.
too bad they didn't build it like fords or chevys says the engineer. You know... the companies who are absolutely failing in the car business right now.
At least say toyota or honda.
A Ford is still okay, probably not the worst, but my god Chevy is horrible.
@@venkyratnam I'd like to agree with you because I used to love Ford's... I still like their trucks. However Ford got so bad at cars they stopped making cars!
Then again, I don't even know if I like their trucks anymore. I used to have a pretty good day of the land when it came to vehicles. Now I feel like with all the new tech (and garbage) that is out there I'm not sure where to begin.
and two companies who build absolute shit way behind our time! Honda and Toyota are still doing things right (for the time being)
They are comparing against other American car manufacturers, Honda and Toyota are Japanese.
MUSK CULTISTS, he didn't say the car was unsafe. He's was talking about it's (industrial) engineering design principles (and they praised the true "tech" of the car). From what's shown in their breakdown, I believe there analysis in there being a crazy number of body parts and fastening types.
If the car has resolved/improved these qualities, great! They're prerogative isn't to destroy Tesla, they're car nerds and veteran automotive (reverse) engineers.
And we're not saying that he's saying that it's unsafe, most people here are trying to explain that because of the odd design and thickness, it's way safer in a crash.