GENIUS. Reversing the motor with the drill works because you're spinning it up past the speed where the starter winding switch disengages, and then the wiring is exactly the same!! AWESOME. You could probably modify the motor with a direction switch, but your drill hack is GENIUS.
I battled my Oregon sharpener for years. I'd get it adjusted and then it would do ok for a few chains and then right back to the same old cutting in circles. I always thought it was the centering of the wheel over the vice. I ran it backwards for the left side as this video showed and the chains cut just like new. I tested my saw on fresh oak out in the rain today. I couldn't believe the difference. It cut in half the time of yesterday. This is the greatest video ever made.
I need to put out a new video I recently discovered what the real problem is with that sharpener. I fixed it and it works 100% perfectly and I don't have to do anything special anymore. It is a factory Manufacturing problem. I don't know if it's a problem on all, but it is definitely a problem on mine which was made in Italy
@@RosaStringWorks That would be great, I'd love to see it. I was focusing on the centering of the wheel over the vice, which as you know, changes as the wheel wears. I'd get the grinder set up to where it worked great, and then it would last about 5 chains and all heck would break loose and I'd have to do it all over again. It never seemed to be an exact science to get it right again. With running the motor backwards for the left side, my off-center wheel cut amazingly well.
How you two guys even thought to reverse the direction of the sharpening wheel rotation, much less get the motor to continue that reverse rotation when it was switched on just amazes me. What previous experience did you draw on to know the the motor rotation would continue in the induced direction once it was switched on? It just doesn’t strike me as being intuitive at all! And them using the Drexel tool to complete the process-just genius! Rosa-did you ever put out the new video you allude to? Thanks so much for sharing.
I attended a class put on by Oregon years ago and they recommended then to do as you did and go to the 55 degree angle. They claimed that after testing you get on the average more cuts before dulling. My customers loved it! The resetting of the teeth length is due to the bed of the vise/table axis. The spendier models now have it so you can adjust this and a scale down by where the bed pivots when you go from left to right 30 degrees. It allows the bed to move forward or backward to square the pivot point up with the blade at 0 degrees. You can see the scale on the side/bottom of the newer model 520-120 and up Oregon grinders. It is supposed to adjust for "minor" factory machining differences. Gonna try the reversal trick though, great idea!
I was positive this was the reason my cheapo did not work. No sparks from the tip. I knew only half the chain was getting sharpened. It seemed wrong or counterintuitive from day 1.This major flaw should be all over the place but all these other guys do is 3 minute videos for click bait. So THANK YOU. PS: I refiled the one side by hand on the first chain. On another chain, I cut into it a bit and that semi worked. I' guess that's why they cut off half your blade when you have it 'professionally done'. It all makes sense now.
Fantastic idea! I used to have an Oregon sharpener like this that got stolen six or eight years ago. The switch to turn it on was bi-directional. You could rotate the motor either direction depending on which side of the chain you were sharpening. The new models come with the one-way switch like yours. My new one sharpens like crap compared to my old one and I was convinced it was because of this reason as well. Was looking at a way to rewire the motor to make it bi- directional but your solution is great! I never would have thought to have tried that. Thanks!
-Good video which shows the importance of using the caliper to assure equal tooth length and importance of removing burrs. My shop has been closed for a dozen years, but I used the middle priced Oregon sharpeners (about $280 at the time) with two set up sharpening (one for loggers chains, one for homeowners small chains) and a third one one set up for the raker teeth. Loggers would bring in chains that were just thrown in the back of a pickup, exposed to rain and with stiff links. I would have to soak those chains to loosen them and wire brush them to remove resin. I advised those loggers to keep a bucket of diesel fuel to throw the dulled chains into. That helped quite a bit. My old loggers have died of heart attacks, but were savvy about tree felling so that did not do them in. Home owners often started their chain saws on the ground where momentary contact with the ground would immediately dull their chains, then complain to me that I didn't sharpen the chains well. My sharpening process always took quite a bit longer to do than local hardware store sharpeners took, but I didn't charge more. Don't miss the business and now only have my personal sharpening to do. J.C. Moore - Feathercrest Farm, Lake Ariel, PA
I measure each side of teeth to make sure each side cut to same length. As for rakers I set another grinder to grind all rakers the same. I use a Maxx Grinder which the head can rotate to left and right. I grind all my chain one side and then set up for other side. If changing motor rotation, probably save time doing all one side then change for all other side.
Look at a video titled "Chainsaw sharpening myth. Debunked" by Buckin' Billy Ray Smith. You folks are incorrect about tooth length needing be equal from left side cutters to right side cutters, our Canadian friend, Buckin Billy Ray Smith proved that you don't have to have equal length of cutters when he took a nearly half lifechain on a 28"? McCullough 10-10 and sharpened either the left or right side cutters (don't remember the side chosen) right down to no tooth left and then went and took a good straight 1/2" cut (cookie) off of a 20 to 30 ish inch diameter log. IIRC he said what matters is proper depth gauge height in relation to its respective cutting tooth! (And no I am not looking to start any BS,because I was amazed by this also)
Thanks for taking the time to make this video. I just purchased an electric sharpener. I was out here looking for any additional tips. I thought the video was well made. You didn't block the sharpener, etc. with your body, or hands. Your voice was clear, and easy to understand. I thought you were so down to earth in conveying your frustration with an inadequate sharpener. I purchased a much cheaper brand. So, I'm sure I will have some frustrating days ahead, lol. I'm just gathering more info/tips. Not sure what I will use, or not. But, I appreciate all you UA-camr's who make these videos for us. Again, thank you.
Exellent vid, I too discovered the the burr problem so I shall use the wheel reversing trick, I did conclude that there must be a circuit to enable reversing the motor,,, thanks again
Some AC motors can not be reversed electrically. At least not easily. I discovered via a comment that setting the back angle down to 55 degrees reduced the burr a lot. Finally, I discovered the real problem with my sharpener. There is a manufactorer's defect. New video will be out soon.
Thanks for the tips. I've been using and sharpening saws for 36 years but have never been very happy with my sharpening efforts. I'll give your tips/hacks a try.
Allan Wells thank you for watching. Someone suggested recently to set the Tilt to 50 degrees rather than 60 degrees. I've experimented with that since then and I like 55 degrees. it seems to reduce the topfer quite a bit.
ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT; I've never seen an electric motor run backwards by your technique, I love it,,, thank you very much. I can understand that if you hadn't reversed the motors rotation, that the tooth would (or could) be pushed tighter toward the stop, and when the direction of the chain was flipped,,, the grinding wheel would pull the cutting tooth away from the stop, but you resolved that problem by reversing the motors rotation.
Thank you very much for the video! Your meticulousness is impressive, I like it! Stephen Leacock has written there was a reverse switch on the 20 years old sharpener. Everything is cheap and made in China nowadays :( . There is more right way to make the reverse in an induction motor: you have to disconnect the main winding from the starting winding and install a "bipolar" switch into the chain of either winding. When you reverse the polarity of one winding relative to another, the motor will start spinning the opposite direction. I have done this to my cheap Chinese drill press (it was a lot of work though). But your way of changing the direction is 100% workable and awesome in its simplicity!
I need to put a new video out giving an update. A couple of months ago I figured out what the real problem is with this machine. The real problem is that is never centered properly from one side to the other. And I could not get it to work no matter what I did. Problem was solved by accident which often happens it seems on things that are really weird. If I turn it to the right and set it at 30 degrees and turn it to the left and set it at 25 degrees everything is absolutely 100% perfect. So they had screwed up the angle from the factory now I don't get any burrs I don't have to do any measuring everything is absolutely perfect it's just amazing the difference. One more thing that I did since then is I tilt the back angle to 55 degrees that also helped with the burrs.
@@RosaStringWorks Thank you once again! This info is good to know! I have a Chinese clone (or, more likely, a brother under another label :) ) of your Oregon sharpener. Now I know much more about how to use it properly.
@@spock6692 , suggest you check for slop in the machining of the head pivot. Can affect consistency of the grinding. My clone, the slop was able to take up by inserting a piece of scrap tape measure as a bush. Improved the accuracy no end. Vice lock kept losing grip & eccentric bolt hadn't enough adjustment. On old Oregon model, a shallow ), vertical, matching radius of lock knob. Recreated on new, problem sorted. Hope make sense. Great tool when you get the discrepancies corrected.
I have a similar machine made by Efco, I've had it for many years and on that particular machine the power switch is 2 way i.e. you can have the grinding disc spinning in either directon. also it has an additional thicker grinding disc which you attach to the machine (Having first removed the sharpening disc of course) then set the disc vertically so you can use it to take down the depth gauges.
To greatly reduce the burr use the tap method. Just touch the wheel too the cutters. At least 6 taps per tooth. And don’t try to remove too much length at once. My father in law sharpened saws hand circular and chains. He had a Foley Belsaw that my brother in law still uses today. It has the reverse feature. Anyway he told me about the tap method. Just try it guys. Works good. I promise.
Thanks for the vid! I’ve had that grinder for years and mostly it’s collected dust on the bench because I found hand filing to be a better cut. I tried your drill hack and it worked perfectly! Couple days ago got to use my fresh ground chain with my Stihl 066 and it was throwing ribbons, man. Thanks for the help. Heading back out to the shop to dial in the rest of my fleet.
You are a genius ! I have struggled with this nightmare for years. I bought a sharpener like yours and just stopped using it. Now I can use it to it's full potential ......thankful I'm a pack rat, I have kept all the chains. Yes still the same saw. Thanks again!
I love these machine orientated videos, I have taken multiple woodshop, machining, welding, and CNC classes and learning little tips like this one and the homemade thickness planer are great
Using a progressive raker gauge available from Stihl, Carlton, West Coast Saws to set all rakers the saw will cut straight. Tooth length is not critical. Great Video thank you for sharing.
Nice video....I have the Oregon 520-120 and I love it.....I also have CBN wheels(they are GREAT!!).... Me personally, I dont worry about the burr, I was at first, but literally as soon as the chain hits the wood it's gone.....I will say once you get past the learning curve, and find out what angles work best, you can undoubtably get a chain as sharp as a factory chain!!!! I should add that before I got the grinder I was totally against them....I have hand filed for years with great results, and didn't think the grinder could get the same results....well let me say I was absolutely wrong!!! Guys take time to learn how to use the grinder, take off a very small amount of material off, and use the light tap-tap-tap method.....do not just slam the grinder head into the tooth, you will burn the cutter every time!!!!
Kyle Studebaker thanks for watching in for the note. In my case the bur was so significant it would not be gone. I could cut two cords of wood in the bur would still be there. However since I changed to a 55 degree angle that lessened the bur significantly and I don't worry about it much now.
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If you read through comments about a year ago the gentleman who made this video found a permanent fix (solution) so he didn't have to use a hand drill to reverse the motor direction. So as interesting and enjoyable as this video was to watch, I'm not sure how relevant this video is now. The solution is if you are orientated towards perfection & don't mind the extra tinkering you could double check and measure all the angles on your new chain grinder to make sure they correspond with the angle measurement guides on the machine.
Jerry, who would think the motor would run in the opposite direction.? Good on you for figuring that out. I just bought a brand new chain in September for my wood logs. Yeah, nothing cuts like it a new chain. My local saw shop sells an Oregon contraption that is supposed to be THE ultimate saw file. Set at 35 degrees, I think and lines to see if you are at the proper angle. One feature is it takes down the depth gauges, so called "rakers" at the same time. They come in various sizes depending on the chain pitch. Dale was out of stock at the time I got the chain, now, I don't need it yet til next time I cut logs, which may be in another month. With this Montana deep freeze we just had, I burned enough to power the Mississippi Queen up river in a race. It's above zero for first time in about 55 days. Supposed to be near 40 above next Monday. Hurray !! Cheers, buddy. Bob
Many thanks for your lifetime's knowledge and great hack to spin the disc backwards, will certainly use that and get a dremil tool. 1 thing I've picked up and so has Mike below is a CBN wheel, they cut sharp and cold, which preserves the temper of the steel. Also thanks to Thomas about the X Y of the disc, which shows how you've brought many good ideas to this thread. Good luck to you. Your house must be 100 Degrees burning a cord every 3 day's .. We don't get that cold in New Zealand.
You probably think I'm exaggerating. But I swear to you we have trouble keeping it up to 70 degrees. The floor is so cold it's probably in the neighborhood of 58 to 60 degrees. In the ceiling is pretty warm probably in the neighborhood of 85 degrees. He just kind of have to learn how to live in multiple climates all at once. Lol
In the late 1980's I bought a chain sharpener that has a switch to change the direction the wheel spins. It's always given me a great sharpening. I don't recall the name but I remember buying it from an ad I saw from a company in Erie, PA, I believe.
Admire your precision work and explanation / reasoning for your technique. Just getting started sharpening. Would appreciate an up close look at a finished sharpened tooth - each direction. Thanks
I cut alot of trees for my county DPW, and I do all the chain sharpening. I also use the same techniques as yourself all but the tip on the drill. We have a Stihl sharpener but what is a huge difference is the switch. It has a 3 way switch I guess you would call it. It can run your grinder in either direction for a good clean grind. Im almost sure you could buy that switch and replace the one in that Oregon. Be a simple fix for ya. I found by using a 50/30 degree grind that the chains last longer. I learned that from a oldtimer. I use a rapid chisel on all the saws. Good video BTW .
Chad winters the switch idea must only work on either a 220v motor, or a motor you can reverse internally. Can't think of any way to wire up the reversing switch I bought. Oh well the 50 degree angle works good though.
Rosa String Works dang it lol. I was hoping it worked. we just bought the same grinder and I want it to reverse. I will see what's on the old grinder. I will keep you posted. I hope I like this Oregon grinder.
Wow cutting in the correct direction. Very rare. Lighter cuts less heat. Newer blades are hardened and are very fussy about heat and annealing. Great video. I am a tool maker of 50 years. Look at your wood chips from a new blade and remember them. After sharpening check your chips. Very few if anyone does this simple check. The direction of the grinding wheel does matter.
Yes, the green wheel works a bit better than the pink. The Oregons that I used had reversible motors. Trying to cut back beyond the worn part of the cutting tooth has to be done gingerly so as not to overheat the tooth and lose its temper. It is best to take small brief cuts rather than going it all in one rotation of the chain. Slower, but much better results.
Thank you for that knowledge. I have that exact same sharpener and was getting the burrs as well but I didn’t really notice that being a problem. I think my biggest problem was the height of the rakers. Didn’t realize they were so important. Thanks again.
I plan to put out a new video. After nearly 20 years of using that goofy grinder. I have finally figured out what the real problem is. The thing was manufactured in correctly. If I turn it to 30 degrees on the right and 25° on the left everything works absolutely perfect. I don't have the monkey with anything it just works no burs no problems the chains cut perfectly. I will tell you that setting the back angle to 55° also helped greatly with the burrs. I just recently spent the money for a CBN wheel and is absolutely worth the money. I cannot believe the difference. People told me I would like it but I was skeptical because they cost over $100. I would easily spend $100 again. It's that different.
Reversing the direction of the motor??? ..... -what a hack...that’s BRILLIANT!!! Just bought an electric sharpener, Can’t wait to try it on mine! Good job 👍
I’m very pleased to find this video. I’ve had all the less than optimal results sharpening chains...very discouraging but I’m not giving up my search for knowledge! I don’t know why DIY can’t learn this skill to rival that of a professional. It just takes someone like this man to share their approach. We’re not talking brain surgery here but like a brain surgeon you need the right technique and tools. I ordered a 10x magnifying glass so I can.do a careful inspection of the tooth. I need to see these dang burs. I ordered a caliper to get .01mm tooth digital measurement accuracy. I clean the chain before starting in on the sharpening...I’m prepping for surgery! I will definitely use a respirator to keep those fine particles out of my system.
How I prep for chain cleaning. The disassembling/reassembling is admittedly time consuming but the results are stellar ;-) Fwww.sheldonbrown.com/chainclean/images/chainclean01.jpg
Great hack tip...I'm new at using a chainsaw but being a carpenter I knew that those burrs weren't going to let me get a good cut...my trick was just passing some fine sandpaper over the burrs!
As mentioned by others my older has a 2 way switch and can rotate the motor either way. Regarding not cutting the teeth the same length, there are 2 adjustment screws when you remove the chain vice from the machine. On my model this problem is fixed by cutting a slot with a hacksaw into a piece of metal that can be locked into thr chain vice. Place cut under grinding wheel with tilt set at 90 degrees first. Rotate chain vise to 30 degrees right. Make sure its still over cut. Do the same rotating to the left.. If it isnt in correct spot you will see this. Remove vice from machine and on the underneath loosen the 2 screws and slide fractionally one way or the other. Also my vise tilts and right hand teeth( closest ones to you) need to have vice pushed away from you and when cutting left hand teeth bring it back to you. Hope this helps fix your issues as the oregon sharpener is a great tool and produces extremely sharp chains when done correctly.
I recently discovered what the real problem is with my machine. The angle scale on the front is off by 10ﾟ. Once I finally figured that out it works great.
@@RosaStringWorks nice mate Glad to hear you worked out the issues. They are a great machine once you get to zone in on all of the finer points. We cut ironbark, turpentine and other Aussie hardwoods so have to change the cutting angle as 30 degrees sees the edge disappear really quickly. Oregon chains are sharpened to 25 degrees and rakers adjusted to suit. Good to hear from you. Thanks. Peter
Thank you for this valuable advice, thank you very much, but I didn't really understand, at the end of sharpening, when you use the dremel to refine the gouge, on which part you pass the small wheel
Nice video, great presentation technique, and it's nice to see a bit of opinionation, even if some folks don't agree with some of the tips. Give us more, and thanks!
Correct, burrs are a rolled cutting edge. I would not use a dremmel, what I use is a flat file the remove the burr. The 372xp is the most or one of the most popular loggers saws. I have one and it’s a beast. Gotta try the hack thanks
I've been sharpening chains a long time, I used Stihls grinder, but I have the 511A identical to yours. If you are getting a burr your taking to much material off. I also don't go by there 30° angle on every chain. Sometimes I eye ball the chain and adjust to the chain. You are right the chain grinder is not as easy as 1,2,3, I don't think we can ever get a chain as sharp as the manufacturer. But as long as your getting the results that make you happy that's what matters, like they say there is more than one way to skin a cat. The grinder takes a good eye, looks like you found your methods. Happy cutting👍
I have a electric grinder that I use when chains are in bad shape. I hand file my own, because unless I hit metal or rocks or dirt I file until I can't see an edge on the cutting edge of the tooth. If you can see a shine on the edge it is not sharp.
Good tips. The EFCO LR36941 Type 136 had the reversable motors with on-off-on switch and were 110. I still got 2, one for parts and 1 to use. I always let my customers wait and watch; a new customer will ask, "How come you clean the chain?" I explain that dried sap, oils, and accumulated detritus has a tendency to build up concretia-like on the teeth and if I were to sharpen it, it *could* create small, localized hotspots; hot enough to blue the metal, fatiguing and compromising the integrity of the hardening. It also *could* prematurely contaminate the wheel and also cause bluing. If it's just oily, I throw it into the shaker or brush it off in the Naptha tank and blow it off. If it has a really crusty mung, I wire-wheel it. Then he asks, "Why do you move the sharpener up and down?" I explain by "bouncing" the wheel with gradual increments to the stop allows for cooling intervals instead of holding the wheel on it and again, bluing it. I do it a little faster than you with more, smaller, 'hits' @ 4/4 beat. I get hardly any burrs; clean chain + clean & dressed wheel + lots of light bouncies = Burr-less Braziliain Chain Waxing. He then says "I've never seen anybody else do that." I say, "Yep." From now on, that customer will go nowhere else. My Motto: "If you blue it you blew it"
P.S. For irregular cutting length, set the guide at 0 deg. and the wheel angle straight up and down. Pull motor arm handle down where the wheel just touches the guide. Move the guide through its travel; make sure it pivots at the exact spot wheel touches and not rotate out of concentric. It may need some spacing between mount joint and pivot and adjusting knob to make it longer, or dress the wheel down to a smaller diameter to make it shorter. And yep, the more you use the wheel, the more it gets off.....I don't bother anymore...I just adjust it like you do. Oh, and make sure the chain guide clamp stop is adjusted where the chain doesn't get "pushed" when you cinch the clamp handle.
Wow, it seems over the top. I use my $25 Pferd hand file guide and a vise on the bar and I'm done in 10 minutes. It seems way sharper than any sharpening I've had done on a grinder at a shop.
That was a couple of years ago I recently discovered what the real problem is with that machine. I fixed it. And now I can sharpen a chain without all the hassle in about 2 minutes. So watch for a brief follow-up video in the very near future.
There is one other point regarding settings on these Oregon sharpeners. The grinding wheel will change profile over time and needs to be adjusted back to a flat surface. The grinding wheel will become rounded on the outer edge. A small very hard grinding block came with my sharpener which is to be held flat against the side of the disk being used for sharpening, while the sharpener is switched on. You will be able to see when the disk surface has been restored. That fixes this problem easily. Obviously, you can take the grinding wheel off and reverse it but the problem won't go away because that side will eventually change profile as well. I wish to add that a demonstration video came with my sharpener and the instructor wasn't grinding each tooth for too long. Two or three short hits and no more. He did this to avoid over-heating the tooth and therefore softening the steel.
I was set on buying the oregon 620-120 which is probably same in accuracy. I learned a little from your techniques. I would have taken the burr off the top with a fine flat file. Kind of hard to be accurate without grinding too much off the cutter with the dremel tool. The oregon seems to be the best for the money but I thought it would have been more accurate. I'm not surprised though. Thanks for a good video.
A small medium or fine stone will knock off the burr without marring the top surface at all if they are chromed and only lightly polish unplated cutters. The stone also has zero chance of dinging a cutter like a dremel can if you slip.
johnnybarbar thanks. I switched to 55 degrees that helped a bunch. I'm pretty much an expert with the dremel. I build instruments and use a dremel all the time.
Thanks for sharing these valuable sharpening techniques, Jerry! I especially appreciated your insight about the burrs causing issues-it's something that gets overlooked often. Your method of spinning the blade in the opposite direction was a great tip! Have you found any specific brands of chains or tools that work best with your techniques? Looking forward to trying this out!
That burr on the top, if you take your chain and touch it on a wire wheel on your bench grinder, it comes right off. You can even dress the the slight burr on the side plate plate as well. I've had a saw sharpening business for 20 years and it works famously. Be sure to keep your wheel dressed properly as this will reduce the size of the burr. Great video by the way.
The machine was defective from the factory. I learned since this video it was off by 5 degrees from one side to the other. Yeah a normal burr no problem. This was NOT the case
I had same problem with the burs, I finally found that if I rotated the bench the 10° towards you when sharpening the right tooth and rotate away from you when sharpening the left side and it works perfectly, any lil bur you might have on the top edge I use the dressing stone and it takes it right off. I got to say spinning it backwards is brilliant though but not as safe but yeah that's how I do it sharp as new if not sharper good luck
Interesting hack, Ive got a Portek ultra mk3, a mid price range product and it sharpens chains just fine, I haven't had any problems using chains done with this machine but as always with tips n tricks I will scrutinise my process and apply your technique next run out to see if it will improve on my work👍......thanks for posting
After all this time I've just discovered the real problem with my machine. The angle is wrong from one side to the other. 30 degrees on one side equals 25° on the other. The scale was attached incorrectly from the factory
I think you could use a diamond hone to remove instead of the Dremel you were right running the grinding wheel in reverse. I am a machinist and worked in a tool room where I sharpened end mill milling cutters.
I fell timber in the great northwest for many years before retiring, I used 404 skip tooth chisel bit chain and I filed it with a round file , I used it this way when I worked thinning jobs , it just worked better for me ,I used a 36 in. Bar ,l m 6 feet tall and it fit me well for bucking and climbing, l used a 32 in. for the smaller stuff. Once you get the gullets filed out it's easy goin.
That was very helpful, I just purchased a machine very similar to the one in your demonstration, I don't know though about reversing the rotation of the cutting wheel, but your tips about removing burrs is a good idea with the Dremel, Thanks again.
Make sure that your setscrew is tite, usually the spinning direction of a motor determine if the setscrew is left or right threaded. Also I'd use a locktite on the thread before I would run it in the opposite direction.
I have an Oregon model 410-120 grinder, and the wheel mounting screw has a right-hand thread. With a RH thread, it can be spun clockwise with a drill like this video shows, without backing out the screw.
Well hell I thought the world was flat as well! EVERY thing addressed in this video applied to me, I bought a cheaper model hoping for great results. The problem are IDENTICAL to the issues with the more expensive cutters. Great video, I'll keep my cheapie and just fight il like y'all have to do as well!
Tom Pavlovsky thanks for taking a look. The one thing that I did since the video is change the back angle from 60 degrees to 55 degrees and that is helped with the Burr tremendously.
It should not harm the motor, this type of motor would randomly start in either direction, but they generally have a capacitor in the circuit or some other arrangement to force them to start in the desired direction. Once running in either direction the motor is doing its thing.
I enjoyed your video and having just bought an Oregon sharpener, I didn't know about the bias grinding differential for tooth length. If I have understood what others have said about the stop/tooth relationship being the only relevant thing, then I would have to disagree. If a stop/raker is higher, then it seems logical that it would 'lift' the next tooth creating less bite and a dominance to one side. My machine has a cover over the wheel and I imagine yours did too. If one were to drill a hole in the safety cover, it would allow access to the hex screw w/o compromising safety. Removing burrs? I think that is overkill. It's a moving chain, not a knife and very temporary, but I defer to you. I like to run a chisel tooth chain on my larger saw, but today I looked at a new Stihl chain under a magnifying glass and was surprised to see how off the intersection of the grind was with the point and the wall; not even close. Now that matters! Thanks for the video!
After nearly 20 years using that thing I just found out what the real problem is I released another video but I can't remember the video number sorry it explains that you need to set it one way to 30ﾟ and 25 the other way and it works perfectly
There is a nut and bolt behind the tightening cam. I think that if you adjust that, it will bring the two sides equal, but will take some time to get it correct.
Nice tip on “reverse spinning” the cutting wheel. I can’t say I agree about the tooth length though. When HAND sharpening, I don’t try to get my chains teeth to equal lengths, and have NEVER cut in a circle. A worn bar could cause this, but I don’t believe the length of the tooth matters. How could it?
@@CasualConcepts3D I don't think you can (at least not on my own bench sharpener) because the vertical angle is only adjustable in one direction. ie. his "60 degree" setting. You can't set it at 60 degrees in the opposite direction. If that makes any sense.
It's relatively easy to rewire these motors so that they are reversable. Basically you reverse the polarity of the wires to the brushes relative to the field windings. There are purpose built switches for this.
Tried all that. Not my first rodeo. some AC motors cannot be reversed. Polarity doesn't matter as there is no real polarity with AC that's what alternating means. It flows in both directions.
@@RosaStringWorks Yes the current alternates, but the polarity in the armature relative to the field is what gives the motor the bias to rotate in the same direction every time it is turned on.
@@RosaStringWorks I reversed a lot of AC motors there is a capacitor inside in series with a starter winding, you will have to connect that set the other way around, you can make that switchable with the correct switch. Sometimes the wires cant be reached, read about it in this page. woodgears.ca/motors/reversing.html
Really smart. I think, maybe you've reversed the motor's polarity. Do you apply the drill machine in the opposite direction to make the sharpener turn the other way then? Best regards.
Exactly right. To do a professional job you need a reversing motor. If not you will leave a bur and the blade will cut off. A wire brush will also remove the bur.
Hello , does this work with any electric sharpener (change rotation) ? Can damage be done in the motor by doing this? I have a cheap one Kraft 691010 can i do it . Thank in advance for your time .
I have a 20 year old dolmar version of this oregon sharpener , it came with a 3 position toggle switch with forward, off , reverse . Musta been a thing at one time or another. Nice information though
A little easy wiring will fix that right up for you with out the drill. Since it's a single phase electric motor, should be as simple as switching a couple wires and adding a double throw switch
Do you mean a shaded pole motor? Most of them are constructed so we can reverse the rotation by reversing the field. It is fairly easy to take these apart to turn over the stator which reverses the field so the motor will run in the opposite direction. Not sure if you thought of this or it is practical, meaning easily done for your application? I feel it would be worth it though. Let me know.
You can actually run induction motors backwards. They have a starter capacitor. This starter cap ensures that they start in the correct direction. Starting it backwards would just do an initial override of that capacitor. But once it's running backwards, it fine.
Thanks so much very good tips ❤❤❤❤❤
GENIUS. Reversing the motor with the drill works because you're spinning it up past the speed where the starter winding switch disengages, and then the wiring is exactly the same!! AWESOME. You could probably modify the motor with a direction switch, but your drill hack is GENIUS.
Thanks for the explanation! 4 years ago, hahahaha
Most commen sence I seen in a long time. Awesome teaching
I battled my Oregon sharpener for years. I'd get it adjusted and then it would do ok for a few chains and then right back to the same old cutting in circles. I always thought it was the centering of the wheel over the vice.
I ran it backwards for the left side as this video showed and the chains cut just like new. I tested my saw on fresh oak out in the rain today. I couldn't believe the difference. It cut in half the time of yesterday.
This is the greatest video ever made.
I need to put out a new video I recently discovered what the real problem is with that sharpener. I fixed it and it works 100% perfectly and I don't have to do anything special anymore. It is a factory Manufacturing problem. I don't know if it's a problem on all, but it is definitely a problem on mine which was made in Italy
@@RosaStringWorks That would be great, I'd love to see it. I was focusing on the centering of the wheel over the vice, which as you know, changes as the wheel wears. I'd get the grinder set up to where it worked great, and then it would last about 5 chains and all heck would break loose and I'd have to do it all over again. It never seemed to be an exact science to get it right again.
With running the motor backwards for the left side, my off-center wheel cut amazingly well.
How you two guys even thought to reverse the direction of the sharpening wheel rotation, much less get the motor to continue that reverse rotation when it was switched on just amazes me. What previous experience did you draw on to know the the motor rotation would continue in the induced direction once it was switched on? It just doesn’t strike me as being intuitive at all! And them using the Drexel tool to complete the process-just genius! Rosa-did you ever put out the new video you allude to? Thanks so much for sharing.
@@j31355a It does make for a more even cut side to side. Still, getting a chain to cut even is always a bit of a challenge.
I attended a class put on by Oregon years ago and they recommended then to do as you did and go to the 55 degree angle. They claimed that after testing you get on the average more cuts before dulling. My customers loved it! The resetting of the teeth length is due to the bed of the vise/table axis. The spendier models now have it so you can adjust this and a scale down by where the bed pivots when you go from left to right 30 degrees. It allows the bed to move forward or backward to square the pivot point up with the blade at 0 degrees. You can see the scale on the side/bottom of the newer model 520-120 and up Oregon grinders. It is supposed to adjust for "minor" factory machining differences. Gonna try the reversal trick though, great idea!
I was positive this was the reason my cheapo did not work. No sparks from the tip. I knew only half the chain was getting sharpened. It seemed wrong or counterintuitive from day 1.This major flaw should be all over the place but all these other guys do is 3 minute videos for click bait. So THANK YOU.
PS: I refiled the one side by hand on the first chain. On another chain, I cut into it a bit and that semi worked. I' guess that's why they cut off half your blade when you have it 'professionally done'. It all makes sense now.
Fantastic idea! I used to have an Oregon sharpener like this that got stolen six or eight years ago. The switch to turn it on was bi-directional. You could rotate the motor either direction depending on which side of the chain you were sharpening. The new models come with the one-way switch like yours. My new one sharpens like crap compared to my old one and I was convinced it was because of this reason as well. Was looking at a way to rewire the motor to make it bi- directional but your solution is great! I never would have thought to have tried that. Thanks!
-Good video which shows the importance of using the caliper to assure equal tooth length and importance of removing burrs. My shop has been closed for a dozen years, but I used the middle priced Oregon sharpeners (about $280 at the time) with two set up sharpening (one for loggers chains, one for homeowners small chains) and a third one one set up for the raker teeth. Loggers would bring in chains that were just thrown in the back of a pickup, exposed to rain and with stiff links. I would have to soak those chains to loosen them and wire brush them to remove resin. I advised those loggers to keep a bucket of diesel fuel to throw the dulled chains into. That helped quite a bit. My old loggers have died of heart attacks, but were savvy about tree felling so that did not do them in. Home owners often started their chain saws on the ground where momentary contact with the ground would immediately dull their chains, then complain to me that I didn't sharpen the chains well. My sharpening process always took quite a bit longer to do than local hardware store sharpeners took, but I didn't charge more. Don't miss the business and now only have my personal sharpening to do.
J.C. Moore - Feathercrest Farm, Lake Ariel, PA
Not raker teeth. Called depth gage that rides before the saw chain cutter.
I measure each side of teeth to make sure each side cut to same length. As for rakers I set another grinder to grind all rakers the same. I use a Maxx Grinder which the head can rotate to left and right. I grind all my chain one side and then set up for other side. If changing motor rotation, probably save time doing all one side then change for all other side.
Look at a video titled "Chainsaw sharpening myth. Debunked" by Buckin' Billy Ray Smith. You folks are incorrect about tooth length needing be equal from left side cutters to right side cutters, our Canadian friend, Buckin Billy Ray Smith proved that you don't have to have equal length of cutters when he took a nearly half lifechain on a 28"? McCullough 10-10 and sharpened either the left or right side cutters (don't remember the side chosen) right down to no tooth left and then went and took a good straight 1/2" cut (cookie) off of a 20 to 30 ish inch diameter log. IIRC he said what matters is proper depth gauge height in relation to its respective cutting tooth! (And no I am not looking to start any BS,because I was amazed by this also)
Thanks for taking the time to make this video. I just purchased an electric sharpener. I was out here looking for any additional tips. I thought the video was well made. You didn't block the sharpener, etc. with your body, or hands. Your voice was clear, and easy to understand. I thought you were so down to earth in conveying your frustration with an inadequate sharpener. I purchased a much cheaper brand. So, I'm sure I will have some frustrating days ahead, lol. I'm just gathering more info/tips. Not sure what I will use, or not. But, I appreciate all you UA-camr's who make these videos for us. Again, thank you.
I have a old foley 308. It runs both directions.( from the factory) I have used this grinder for 40 years. It does a great job.
Brilliant hack bro...I'm just looking for my sharpener and will remember this...thanks.
Exellent vid, I too discovered the the burr problem so I shall use the wheel reversing trick, I did conclude that there must be a circuit to enable reversing the motor,,, thanks again
Some AC motors can not be reversed electrically. At least not easily. I discovered via a comment that setting the back angle down to 55 degrees reduced the burr a lot. Finally, I discovered the real problem with my sharpener. There is a manufactorer's defect. New video will be out soon.
Thanks for the tips. I've been using and sharpening saws for 36 years but have never been very happy with my sharpening efforts. I'll give your tips/hacks a try.
Allan Wells thank you for watching. Someone suggested recently to set the Tilt to 50 degrees rather than 60 degrees. I've experimented with that since then and I like 55 degrees. it seems to reduce the topfer quite a bit.
ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT; I've never seen an electric motor run backwards by your technique, I love it,,, thank you very much. I can understand that if you hadn't reversed the motors rotation, that the tooth would (or could) be pushed tighter toward the stop, and when the direction of the chain was flipped,,, the grinding wheel would pull the cutting tooth away from the stop, but you resolved that problem by reversing the motors rotation.
This works because the motor is a brushless motor.. Great idea..
Thank you very much for the video! Your meticulousness is impressive, I like it! Stephen Leacock has written there was a reverse switch on the 20 years old sharpener. Everything is cheap and made in China nowadays :( . There is more right way to make the reverse in an induction motor: you have to disconnect the main winding from the starting winding and install a "bipolar" switch into the chain of either winding. When you reverse the polarity of one winding relative to another, the motor will start spinning the opposite direction. I have done this to my cheap Chinese drill press (it was a lot of work though). But your way of changing the direction is 100% workable and awesome in its simplicity!
I need to put a new video out giving an update. A couple of months ago I figured out what the real problem is with this machine. The real problem is that is never centered properly from one side to the other. And I could not get it to work no matter what I did. Problem was solved by accident which often happens it seems on things that are really weird. If I turn it to the right and set it at 30 degrees and turn it to the left and set it at 25 degrees everything is absolutely 100% perfect. So they had screwed up the angle from the factory now I don't get any burrs I don't have to do any measuring everything is absolutely perfect it's just amazing the difference. One more thing that I did since then is I tilt the back angle to 55 degrees that also helped with the burrs.
@@RosaStringWorks Thank you once again! This info is good to know! I have a Chinese clone (or, more likely, a brother under another label :) ) of your Oregon sharpener. Now I know much more about how to use it properly.
@@RosaStringWorks Did you put up the new video? Sorry if i missed it.
@@spock6692 , suggest you check for slop in the machining of the head pivot. Can affect consistency of the grinding. My clone, the slop was able to take up by inserting a piece of scrap tape measure as a bush. Improved the accuracy no end. Vice lock kept losing grip & eccentric bolt hadn't enough adjustment. On old Oregon model, a shallow ), vertical, matching radius of lock knob. Recreated on new, problem sorted. Hope make sense. Great tool when you get the discrepancies corrected.
I have a similar machine made by Efco, I've had it for many years and on that particular machine the power switch is 2 way i.e. you can have the grinding disc spinning in either directon. also it has an additional thicker grinding disc which you attach to the machine (Having first removed the sharpening disc of course) then set the disc vertically so you can use it to take down the depth gauges.
Well done Sherlock, who would have thought reverse would work. You are the man.
Well done. You have absolutely convinced me to keep using a file.
Same here.
AND he still has to do the rakers.
Truth!!
This is faster than a file once you get the swing of it much faster
Dodd Garger I’m sure it is faster but it won’t do as good of a job.
Why not just flip the chain around on that holder ?
Spot on! I did as you said. The results are awesome. Thank you for sharing!
To greatly reduce the burr use the tap method. Just touch the wheel too the cutters. At least 6 taps per tooth. And don’t try to remove too much length at once. My father in law sharpened saws hand circular and chains. He had a Foley Belsaw that my brother in law still uses today. It has the reverse feature. Anyway he told me about the tap method. Just try it guys. Works good. I promise.
Thanks for the vid! I’ve had that grinder for years and mostly it’s collected dust on the bench because I found hand filing to be a better cut. I tried your drill hack and it worked perfectly! Couple days ago got to use my fresh ground chain with my Stihl 066 and it was throwing ribbons, man. Thanks for the help. Heading back out to the shop to dial in the rest of my fleet.
Glad to hear it helped.
Thanks for taking the time to share your hard won experience!
my complement to you as one of the smartest guys in youtube, you are very correct on what you are doing , great sense of detail.
Great tip. Doesn't work with all motors, but is a treat with this one!
You are a genius ! I have struggled with this nightmare for years. I bought a sharpener like yours and just stopped using it. Now I can use it to it's full potential ......thankful I'm a pack rat, I have kept all the chains. Yes still the same saw. Thanks again!
I love these machine orientated videos, I have taken multiple woodshop, machining, welding, and CNC classes and learning little tips like this one and the homemade thickness planer are great
Joedidely thanks for watching.
G'day mate. FANTASTIC! Those bloody burrs have been driving me crazy for years. I never thought those motors could turn both ways.
Using a progressive raker gauge available from Stihl, Carlton, West Coast Saws to set all rakers the saw will cut straight. Tooth length is not critical. Great Video thank you for sharing.
Nice video....I have the Oregon 520-120 and I love it.....I also have CBN wheels(they are GREAT!!)....
Me personally, I dont worry about the burr, I was at first, but literally as soon as the chain hits the wood it's gone.....I will say once you get past the learning curve, and find out what angles work best, you can undoubtably get a chain as sharp as a factory chain!!!!
I should add that before I got the grinder I was totally against them....I have hand filed for years with great results, and didn't think the grinder could get the same results....well let me say I was absolutely wrong!!!
Guys take time to learn how to use the grinder, take off a very small amount of material off, and use the light tap-tap-tap method.....do not just slam the grinder head into the tooth, you will burn the cutter every time!!!!
Kyle Studebaker thanks for watching in for the note. In my case the bur was so significant it would not be gone. I could cut two cords of wood in the bur would still be there. However since I changed to a 55 degree angle that lessened the bur significantly and I don't worry about it much now.
Great point thx for sharing😋
Kyle Studebake
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An awesome video. I will try your techniques. Thanks for sharing your experience and wisdom.
If you read through comments about a year ago the gentleman who made this video found a permanent fix (solution) so he didn't have to use a hand drill to reverse the motor direction. So as interesting and enjoyable as this video was to watch, I'm not sure how relevant this video is now. The solution is if you are orientated towards perfection & don't mind the extra tinkering you could double check and measure all the angles on your new chain grinder to make sure they correspond with the angle measurement guides on the machine.
Jerry, who would think the motor would run in the opposite direction.? Good on you for figuring that out. I just bought a brand new chain in September for my wood logs. Yeah, nothing cuts like it a new chain. My local saw shop sells an Oregon contraption that is supposed to be THE ultimate saw file. Set at 35 degrees, I think and lines to see if you are at the proper angle. One feature is it takes down the depth gauges, so called "rakers" at the same time. They come in various sizes depending on the chain pitch. Dale was out of stock at the time I got the chain, now, I don't need it yet til next time I cut logs, which may be in another month. With this Montana deep freeze we just had, I burned enough to power the Mississippi Queen up river in a race. It's above zero for first time in about 55 days. Supposed to be near 40 above next Monday. Hurray !! Cheers, buddy. Bob
I don't agree that a new chain cuts all that good. I think my hand filed ones cut better.
Many thanks for your lifetime's knowledge and great hack to spin the disc backwards, will certainly use that and get a dremil tool. 1 thing I've picked up and so has Mike below is a CBN wheel, they cut sharp and cold, which preserves the temper of the steel. Also thanks to Thomas about the X Y of the disc, which shows how you've brought many good ideas to this thread. Good luck to you. Your house must be 100 Degrees burning a cord every 3 day's .. We don't get that cold in New Zealand.
You probably think I'm exaggerating. But I swear to you we have trouble keeping it up to 70 degrees. The floor is so cold it's probably in the neighborhood of 58 to 60 degrees. In the ceiling is pretty warm probably in the neighborhood of 85 degrees. He just kind of have to learn how to live in multiple climates all at once. Lol
In the late 1980's I bought a chain sharpener that has a switch to change the direction the wheel spins. It's always given me a great sharpening. I don't recall the name but I remember buying it from an ad I saw from a company in Erie, PA, I believe.
Admire your precision work and explanation / reasoning for your technique. Just getting started sharpening. Would appreciate an up close look at a finished sharpened tooth - each direction. Thanks
Thank you. The best sharpening on youtube
If you really wanna learn how to sharpen a chain, check out Buckin Billy Ray !!
Thank you so much for the video..I just ordered a sharpener similar to yours..I ll try your tips...
I cut alot of trees for my county DPW, and I do all the chain sharpening. I also use the same techniques as yourself all but the tip on the drill. We have a Stihl sharpener but what is a huge difference is the switch. It has a 3 way switch I guess you would call it. It can run your grinder in either direction for a good clean grind. Im almost sure you could buy that switch and replace the one in that Oregon. Be a simple fix for ya. I found by using a 50/30 degree grind that the chains last longer. I learned that from a oldtimer. I use a rapid chisel on all the saws. Good video BTW .
Chad winters thank you. I'll look into it. That sure would make it easier.
Chad winters just ordered a reversing switch. Hope it works will be great! Thanks
Rosa String Works can't wait to hear back from ya. Good luck I hope it works great for ya.
Chad winters the switch idea must only work on either a 220v motor, or a motor you can reverse internally. Can't think of any way to wire up the reversing switch I bought. Oh well the 50 degree angle works good though.
Rosa String Works dang it lol. I was hoping it worked. we just bought the same grinder and I want it to reverse. I will see what's on the old grinder. I will keep you posted. I hope I like this Oregon grinder.
Wow cutting in the correct direction. Very rare. Lighter cuts less heat. Newer blades are hardened and are very fussy about heat and annealing. Great video. I am a tool maker of 50 years. Look at your wood chips from a new blade and remember them. After sharpening check your chips. Very few if anyone does this simple check. The direction of the grinding wheel does matter.
Thank you for taking a look.
Thank you I'll take a look at the angle. Possibly address the change, I really appreciate the reply as well as your efforts to teach .
Thank you
Tom
Thank you.
I believe Oregon used to sell a reversible grinder but discontinued to cut costs, this is an excellent tutorial!
+P K yeah I've heard of other people telling me they have a reversible motor. But this works when you don't have that. Thanks for watching.
Thanks, your idea for running the motor backward made all the difference in the world! I also find that a green wheel works better than the pink.
Great. Glad to hear it.
Yes, the green wheel works a bit better than the pink. The Oregons that I used had reversible motors. Trying to cut back beyond the worn part of the cutting tooth has to be done gingerly so as not to overheat the tooth and lose its temper. It is best to take small brief cuts rather than going it all in one rotation of the chain. Slower, but much better results.
Thanks for your kind reply, and I took all your suggestions as well as setting in 55 deg rather than 60. Great cutting chains now!
Joseph C. Moore thanks.
Thank you for that knowledge. I have that exact same sharpener and was getting the burrs as well but I didn’t really notice that being a problem. I think my biggest problem was the height of the rakers. Didn’t realize they were so important. Thanks again.
I plan to put out a new video. After nearly 20 years of using that goofy grinder. I have finally figured out what the real problem is. The thing was manufactured in correctly. If I turn it to 30 degrees on the right and 25° on the left everything works absolutely perfect. I don't have the monkey with anything it just works no burs no problems the chains cut perfectly. I will tell you that setting the back angle to 55° also helped greatly with the burrs. I just recently spent the money for a CBN wheel and is absolutely worth the money. I cannot believe the difference. People told me I would like it but I was skeptical because they cost over $100. I would easily spend $100 again. It's that different.
Thank you can't wait to run my first chain with your techniques I know your spot on with this.
Reversing the direction of the motor??? ..... -what a hack...that’s BRILLIANT!!!
Just bought an electric sharpener, Can’t wait to try it on mine! Good job 👍
The trick is you have to spin it fairly quickly. Some battery powered drills don't spin fast enough.
Why not just turn the blade upside down and use the same angle
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@Misael Eugene I certainly don't
nice craftsmanship Jerry.
Super excellent video and new ideas thanks much
I’m very pleased to find this video. I’ve had all the less than optimal results sharpening chains...very discouraging but I’m not giving up my search for knowledge! I don’t know why DIY can’t learn this skill to rival that of a professional. It just takes someone like this man to share their approach. We’re not talking brain surgery here but like a brain surgeon you need the right technique and tools. I ordered a 10x magnifying glass so I can.do a careful inspection of the tooth. I need to see these dang burs. I ordered a caliper to get .01mm tooth digital measurement accuracy. I clean the chain before starting in on the sharpening...I’m prepping for surgery! I will definitely use a respirator to keep those fine particles out of my system.
How I prep for chain cleaning. The disassembling/reassembling is admittedly time consuming but the results are stellar ;-)
Fwww.sheldonbrown.com/chainclean/images/chainclean01.jpg
Great hack tip...I'm new at using a chainsaw but being a carpenter I knew that those burrs weren't going to let me get a good cut...my trick was just passing some fine sandpaper over the burrs!
Excellent video Sir. Thanx!
As mentioned by others my older has a 2 way switch and can rotate the motor either way.
Regarding not cutting the teeth the same length, there are 2 adjustment screws when you remove the chain vice from the machine.
On my model this problem is fixed by cutting a slot with a hacksaw into a piece of metal that can be locked into thr chain vice. Place cut under grinding wheel with tilt set at 90 degrees first. Rotate chain vise to 30 degrees right. Make sure its still over cut. Do the same rotating to the left..
If it isnt in correct spot you will see this.
Remove vice from machine and on the underneath loosen the 2 screws and slide fractionally one way or the other.
Also my vise tilts and right hand teeth( closest ones to you) need to have vice pushed away from you and when cutting left hand teeth bring it back to you.
Hope this helps fix your issues as the oregon sharpener is a great tool and produces extremely sharp chains when done correctly.
I recently discovered what the real problem is with my machine. The angle scale on the front is off by 10ﾟ. Once I finally figured that out it works great.
@@RosaStringWorks nice mate
Glad to hear you worked out the issues.
They are a great machine once you get to zone in on all of the finer points.
We cut ironbark, turpentine and other Aussie hardwoods so have to change the cutting angle as 30 degrees sees the edge disappear really quickly.
Oregon chains are sharpened to 25 degrees and rakers adjusted to suit.
Good to hear from you.
Thanks.
Peter
Thank you for this valuable advice, thank you very much,
but I didn't really understand, at the end of sharpening, when you use the dremel to refine the gouge, on which part you pass the small wheel
This is very valuable information, thank you sir!
Nice video, great presentation technique, and it's nice to see a bit of opinionation, even if some folks don't agree with some of the tips. Give us more, and thanks!
Pete M thank you for taking a look.
Great hack!!!.........would love to see how you address the raker depth topic. The reverse spin will definitely help with the rakers I am thinking.
Correct, burrs are a rolled cutting edge. I would not use a dremmel, what I use is a flat file the remove the burr. The 372xp is the most or one of the most popular loggers saws. I have one and it’s a beast. Gotta try the hack thanks
FRASIERS dad.
Thanks for making this video very HELPFUL 👍🏼👍🏼
Great video mate
Thanks heaps
Very well explained
Very helpful. Thanks for making this video
Tim Kirby thanks for the note. Good luck with yours.
I've been sharpening chains a long time, I used Stihls grinder, but I have the 511A identical to yours. If you are getting a burr your taking to much material off. I also don't go by there 30° angle on every chain. Sometimes I eye ball the chain and adjust to the chain. You are right the chain grinder is not as easy as 1,2,3, I don't think we can ever get a chain as sharp as the manufacturer. But as long as your getting the results that make you happy that's what matters, like they say there is more than one way to skin a cat. The grinder takes a good eye, looks like you found your methods. Happy cutting👍
I have a electric grinder that I use when chains are in bad shape. I hand file my own, because unless I hit metal or rocks or dirt I file until I can't see an edge on the cutting edge of the tooth. If you can see a shine on the edge it is not sharp.
Good tips. The EFCO LR36941 Type 136 had the reversable motors with on-off-on switch and were 110. I still got 2, one for parts and 1 to use. I always let my customers wait and watch; a new customer will ask, "How come you clean the chain?" I explain that dried sap, oils, and accumulated detritus has a tendency to build up concretia-like on the teeth and if I were to sharpen it, it *could* create small, localized hotspots; hot enough to blue the metal, fatiguing and compromising the integrity of the hardening. It also *could* prematurely contaminate the wheel and also cause bluing. If it's just oily, I throw it into the shaker or brush it off in the Naptha tank and blow it off. If it has a really crusty mung, I wire-wheel it. Then he asks, "Why do you move the sharpener up and down?" I explain by "bouncing" the wheel with gradual increments to the stop allows for cooling intervals instead of holding the wheel on it and again, bluing it. I do it a little faster than you with more, smaller, 'hits' @ 4/4 beat. I get hardly any burrs; clean chain + clean & dressed wheel + lots of light bouncies = Burr-less Braziliain Chain Waxing. He then says "I've never seen anybody else do that." I say, "Yep."
From now on, that customer will go nowhere else.
My Motto: "If you blue it you blew it"
P.S. For irregular cutting length, set the guide at 0 deg. and the wheel angle straight up and down. Pull motor arm handle down where the wheel just touches the guide. Move the guide through its travel; make sure it pivots at the exact spot wheel touches and not rotate out of concentric. It may need some spacing between mount joint and pivot and adjusting knob to make it longer, or dress the wheel down to a smaller diameter to make it shorter. And yep, the more you use the wheel, the more it gets off.....I don't bother anymore...I just adjust it like you do. Oh, and make sure the chain guide clamp stop is adjusted where the chain doesn't get "pushed" when you cinch the clamp handle.
I have done the same method for a long time but gotta use a quality wheel .
Wow, it seems over the top. I use my $25 Pferd hand file guide and a vise on the bar and I'm done in 10 minutes. It seems way sharper than any sharpening I've had done on a grinder at a shop.
That was a couple of years ago I recently discovered what the real problem is with that machine. I fixed it. And now I can sharpen a chain without all the hassle in about 2 minutes. So watch for a brief follow-up video in the very near future.
AMEND
Great vid, thanks.
There is one other point regarding settings on these Oregon sharpeners. The grinding wheel will change profile over time and needs to be adjusted back to a flat surface. The grinding wheel will become rounded on the outer edge. A small very hard grinding block came with my sharpener which is to be held flat against the side of the disk being used for sharpening, while the sharpener is switched on. You will be able to see when the disk surface has been restored. That fixes this problem easily.
Obviously, you can take the grinding wheel off and reverse it but the problem won't go away because that side will eventually change profile as well.
I wish to add that a demonstration video came with my sharpener and the instructor wasn't grinding each tooth for too long. Two or three short hits and no more. He did this to avoid over-heating the tooth and therefore softening the steel.
I was set on buying the oregon 620-120 which is probably same in accuracy. I learned a little from your techniques. I would have taken the burr off the top with a fine flat file. Kind of hard to be accurate without grinding too much off the cutter with the dremel tool. The oregon seems to be the best for the money but I thought it would have been more accurate. I'm not surprised though. Thanks for a good video.
steve elliot you are welcome. I'm comfortable withe dremel because I use it dailey building and repairing instruments. Thanks for watching.
A small medium or fine stone will knock off the burr without marring the top surface at all if they are chromed and only lightly polish unplated cutters. The stone also has zero chance of dinging a cutter like a dremel can if you slip.
johnnybarbar thanks. I switched to 55 degrees that helped a bunch. I'm pretty much an expert with the dremel. I build instruments and use a dremel all the time.
I have the 620-120. Same one directional issue. 👎😣
Thanks for sharing these valuable sharpening techniques, Jerry! I especially appreciated your insight about the burrs causing issues-it's something that gets overlooked often. Your method of spinning the blade in the opposite direction was a great tip! Have you found any specific brands of chains or tools that work best with your techniques? Looking forward to trying this out!
Great video... I just got a free 511 a because the last guy hated it but I love it even more now thanks
Jamie Skaggs great thanks for watching.
That burr on the top, if you take your chain and touch it on a wire wheel on your bench grinder, it comes right off. You can even dress the the slight burr on the side plate plate as well. I've had a saw sharpening business for 20 years and it works famously. Be sure to keep your wheel dressed properly as this will reduce the size of the burr. Great video by the way.
The machine was defective from the factory. I learned since this video it was off by 5 degrees from one side to the other. Yeah a normal burr no problem. This was NOT the case
I had same problem with the burs, I finally found that if I rotated the bench the 10° towards you when sharpening the right tooth and rotate away from you when sharpening the left side and it works perfectly, any lil bur you might have on the top edge I use the dressing stone and it takes it right off. I got to say spinning it backwards is brilliant though but not as safe but yeah that's how I do it sharp as new if not sharper good luck
Interesting hack, Ive got a Portek ultra mk3, a mid price range product and it sharpens chains just fine, I haven't had any problems using chains done with this machine but as always with tips n tricks I will scrutinise my process and apply your technique next run out to see if it will improve on my work👍......thanks for posting
After all this time I've just discovered the real problem with my machine. The angle is wrong from one side to the other. 30 degrees on one side equals 25° on the other. The scale was attached incorrectly from the factory
@@RosaStringWorks So after finding that really nasty issue - what do you think about the chains after running them through the grinder?
@@RosaStringWorks Does that mean your not reversing the direction of the motor rotation when grinding far side/left side cutters.
@@RosaStringWorks I'm going to be checking out my little Harder Fate machine for that, because it seems to have the same problem. Thanks!
Not wey often on Youtibe an reel professional instruction. This was. Tanks.
I think you could use a diamond hone to remove instead of the Dremel you were right running the grinding wheel in reverse. I am a machinist and worked in a tool room where I sharpened end mill milling cutters.
I fell timber in the great northwest for many years before retiring, I used 404 skip tooth chisel bit chain and I filed it with a round file , I used it this way when I worked thinning jobs , it just worked better for me ,I used a 36 in. Bar ,l m 6 feet tall and it fit me well for bucking and climbing, l used a 32 in. for the smaller stuff. Once you get the gullets filed out it's easy goin.
That was very helpful, I just purchased a machine very similar to the one in your demonstration, I don't know though about reversing the rotation of the cutting wheel, but your tips about removing burrs is a good idea with the Dremel, Thanks again.
Make sure that your setscrew is tite, usually the spinning direction of a motor determine if the setscrew is left or right threaded. Also I'd use a locktite on the thread before I would run it in the opposite direction.
I have an Oregon model 410-120 grinder, and the wheel mounting screw has a right-hand thread. With a RH thread, it can be spun clockwise with a drill like this video shows, without backing out the screw.
Well hell I thought the world was flat as well! EVERY thing addressed in this video applied to me, I bought a cheaper model hoping for great results. The problem are IDENTICAL to the issues with the more expensive cutters. Great video, I'll keep my cheapie and just fight il like y'all have to do as well!
Tom Pavlovsky thanks for taking a look. The one thing that I did since the video is change the back angle from 60 degrees to 55 degrees and that is helped with the Burr tremendously.
That was a great idea to get the motor to spine the other direction!
Any idea how to adjust the screw on the back side of the vice?
It should not harm the motor, this type of motor would randomly start in either direction, but they generally have a capacitor in the circuit or some other arrangement to force them to start in the desired direction. Once running in either direction the motor is doing its thing.
I enjoyed your video and having just bought an Oregon sharpener, I didn't know about the bias grinding differential for tooth length. If I have understood what others have said about the stop/tooth relationship being the only relevant thing, then I would have to disagree. If a stop/raker is higher, then it seems logical that it would 'lift' the next tooth creating less bite and a dominance to one side. My machine has a cover over the wheel and I imagine yours did too. If one were to drill a hole in the safety cover, it would allow access to the hex screw w/o compromising safety. Removing burrs? I think that is overkill. It's a moving chain, not a knife and very temporary, but I defer to you. I like to run a chisel tooth chain on my larger saw, but today I looked at a new Stihl chain under a magnifying glass and was surprised to see how off the intersection of the grind was with the point and the wall; not even close. Now that matters! Thanks for the video!
After nearly 20 years using that thing I just found out what the real problem is I released another video but I can't remember the video number sorry it explains that you need to set it one way to 30ﾟ and 25 the other way and it works perfectly
There is a nut and bolt behind the tightening cam. I think that if you adjust that, it will bring the two sides equal, but will take some time to get it correct.
I've tried since I've owned it to adjust it and it just doesn't seem to work it's just out of alignment
Does the Drexel harm the chrome plating on the cutter?
Could you put a reverse switch on the grinder to have the wheel go the other direction?
Good Job, what about the 10 deg pitch ?
Nice tip on “reverse spinning” the cutting wheel.
I can’t say I agree about the tooth length though.
When HAND sharpening, I don’t try to get my chains teeth to equal lengths, and have NEVER cut in a circle.
A worn bar could cause this, but I don’t believe the length of the tooth matters.
How could it?
I've suspected for some time now that you're a genius. This proves it. How else to explain how you figured all this out? Uncanny.
Thank you very kindly my friend. I don't think I'm a genius. I guess I would settle for I have a knack for mechanical issues. Thanks for watching.
@@RosaStringWorks wouldn't spinning the chain around do the same thing as reversing wheel?
@@CasualConcepts3D I don't think you can (at least not on my own bench sharpener) because the vertical angle is only adjustable in one direction. ie. his "60 degree" setting. You can't set it at 60 degrees in the opposite direction. If that makes any sense.
It's relatively easy to rewire these motors so that they are reversable. Basically you reverse the polarity of the wires to the brushes relative to the field windings. There are purpose built switches for this.
Tried all that. Not my first rodeo. some AC motors cannot be reversed. Polarity doesn't matter as there is no real polarity with AC that's what alternating means. It flows in both directions.
@@RosaStringWorks Yes the current alternates, but the polarity in the armature relative to the field is what gives the motor the bias to rotate in the same direction every time it is turned on.
@@RosaStringWorks I reversed a lot of AC motors there is a capacitor inside in series with a starter winding, you will have to connect that set the other way around, you can make that switchable with the correct switch.
Sometimes the wires cant be reached, read about it in this page.
woodgears.ca/motors/reversing.html
Really smart. I think, maybe you've reversed the motor's polarity. Do you apply the drill machine in the opposite direction to make the sharpener turn the other way then? Best regards.
Exactly right. To do a professional job you need a reversing motor. If not you will leave a bur and the blade will cut off. A wire brush will also remove the bur.
I have the harbor freight grinder well that motor spin in the opposite direction if I use that process??
Virtually all AC Motors will do that. You have to spin it pretty fast so I cordless drill may not be fast enough.
Hello , does this work with any electric sharpener (change rotation) ?
Can damage be done in the motor by doing this?
I have a cheap one Kraft 691010 can i do it .
Thank in advance for your time .
It should work
I love the drill trick :)
I have a 20 year old dolmar version of this oregon sharpener , it came with a 3 position toggle switch with forward, off , reverse . Musta been a thing at one time or another. Nice information though
Nice viedio I grind my chains to 50-30 grind works good. Mine turns both ways keeps it from getting a bur. Keep up the good viedios. Thanks
nice video excellent trick on the start. good tip pushing tooth down to lock it in the lowest position .
A little easy wiring will fix that right up for you with out the drill. Since it's a single phase electric motor, should be as simple as switching a couple wires and adding a double throw switch
I tried that I even bought a special switch 4 AC Motors wouldn't work
@@RosaStringWorks It is a shabby pole motor the way you have it set up is best. Motor wood need to be rewound to give it the bump the other way.
Do you mean a shaded pole motor? Most of them are constructed so we can reverse the rotation by reversing the field. It is fairly easy to take these apart to turn over the stator which reverses the field so the motor will run in the opposite direction. Not sure if you thought of this or it is practical, meaning easily done for your application? I feel it would be worth it though. Let me know.
is there no down angle tilt on that model? I didn't see you make that adjustment.
60 degrees
Vice table, tilted only for full chisel cutter. Works without, but better performance, if done.
You can actually run induction motors backwards. They have a starter capacitor. This starter cap ensures that they start in the correct direction.
Starting it backwards would just do an initial override of that capacitor.
But once it's running backwards, it fine.
These little motors don't have that type of capacitor
I have the same grinder, mine creates the burr when I am too aggressive too fast, if I take it slow the burr isn't there.
I changed the back and go from 60° to about 55 and that made all the difference
I agree with you Anthony