New Rails of Sheffield/Heljan Gas Turbine 18000. Problems running on 3rd Radius curves
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- This is my own experience with 18000 running on Peco Setrack curves comparing it with the Bachmann Class 57 which is of similar dimensions. I tested them on 3rd, 2nd and probably unfairly (for 18000) 1st radius curves on which most models would have no problems. As of 18 October, Rails are in touch with the manufacturer to see if they are able to suggest a fix. Did 18000 work for you? Update 6.11.21: Reply from Rails advising no fix is possible and offer of free return and full refund.
Link to my 'Solved' video for 18000: • SOLVED Rails of Sheffi...
Link to my running 18000 video: • Running the new Rails ...
If you enjoyed the video please feel free to like, comment, share and subscribe for more. - Розваги
6 November 2021 - I've just had this email reply from Rails:
Quote: " We do not have a fix nor an update.
We have tested many of these locos and have not encountered no issues on our layout, Heljan also tested samples extensively on curves down to R3 and had no problems at all with derailing. We have also had very positive feedback form many customers regarding the running of the loco. So it would appear its only effecting a small amount of customers.
The design of the real loco means it was not possible to make it compatible for tight train set curves. As you’ve probably seen, the bogie design is very unusual to allow extra movement within the frames.
There could be all sorts of reasons for those that have been derailing, from unevenly laid track to curves that are actually a bit tighter than R3 it’s impossible to know for sure in each case. It’s unfortunate but fundamental design elements of the original loco meaning that it may not be suitable for every layout.
We are very sorry that you are experiencing issues with your layout and if this loco is not suitable for you we would offer a full refund. We can supply a free post returns label for you if you wish to return it. " Unquote.
I don't think it's right to criticise Rails/Heljan following their reply and I won't be doing so. I simply replied telling them that the 3rd Radius limitation is only mentioned on the leaflet in the box but not on the website. I have a remedy of my own which will void the guarantee/warranty. I'll be posting a video of that in due course. Stay safe everybody.
Thank you for the update, I am waiting fir a reply from Rails so I would imagine it will be the same.
@@markwilson8002 Hi Mark. I suspect you are right.
19.10.21 - I just had the following update from Rails:- "I think considering the circumstances it seems only fair that a future return would be possible. As of yet I have still not recieved anything back form Heljan but will keep you notified."
I purchased the later green version with sound. All the sound functions work Ok. On third radius it was hesitant to go round but did get round. The main problem I have is electrical pick up. When I examined the chassis I found 2 pick ups weren't even touching the wheels. My opinion is the loco is not fit for purpose.
Hi there. Many thanks for your comments. Interesting, though disturbing, to hear from somebody else who is having issues with 18000. The electrical pick-up thing surely has to do with quality control and when you've shelled out £325.00 for the sound version you really should expect rather more than what you've got. Rails were offering free returns and full refunds so provided the model is still 'mint' it might be worth emailing them. As we've all said, massively disappointing! It would be a shame to have it just sitting in a siding with occasional peeps from the sound chip. Let's hope they put a little extra thought and design into the forthcoming 18100 loco! Cheers. Tim.
Mine too! I’ll watch this thread with bated breath
Hi Alan. Many thanks for your comment. It's been a couple of weeks since my email communication with Rails so when I get a chance I'll follow it up. Cheers. Tim.
On a surprising technicality the curved point set up is actually 2nd radius on both the inner and the outer tracks. Just a peculiarity of the geometry. Look at Hornby track plans if you don't believe me. Maybe if you remove the curved points and had a genuine 3rd radius it would work but easier to test this before than redo your track. Although my collectors mission is to collect all diesels and electrics my funds meant I gave this a miss so now feel lucky!
Hi Alan. Many thanks for your comments, in particular about the curved Setrack points. The trains always do a weird 'wiggle' as they progress round the 3rd radius curve and through those points. Of course it was no surprise when 18000 stalled there with it's already restricted curving abilities. It's still the only loco in my collection (which includes a variety of U.S. outline models including the original 1970's Rivarossi 'Big Boy') to have issues with those points. My solution for 18000 was a bit extreme but it worked and looks great when running. I think you were wise to give 18000 a miss and save your £200.00! Happy modelling. Cheers. Tim.
@@shanghai264359 - In your video it makes a noise on 3rd radius but does get through it. You only need one track for it to work. Thanks for reply.
@@alanrobertson9790 Thanks Alan. Yes it did screech a bit but was OK after my drastic modifications. Have you had a look at my 'solved' and 'running' videos. Links are in the description above. Cheers. Tim.
I sent mine back within two days of me receiving it. Apart from pick up problems reported by others, the rear of the bogies come into contact with the body casing and it's this, I think, that caused the loco to stall. Very disappointed as I had been waiting a long time for this beautiful model.
Hi Gareth. Many thanks for viewing the video and for your comments. It was very surprising indeed to have this outcome from this highly respected partnership.
I’m having the same problem with mine, my minimum is 3rd but it’ll derail the leading bogie at certain points. No problems at all on 4th so at least I can run it on one line, yet a 9f can negotiate all lines no problem!
Many thanks for your comment. Yes, it's quite bizarre! This is the first British/ European loco in my collection not to run on all Setrack curves. A few of my American outline locos have issues with 1st and 2nd radii but they all cope with 3rd radius. You are blessed with your 4th radius as you say. No problems with your 9F says a lot. Cheers.
I don't have a layout, only an oval of track in my loft. I can't remember if its radius 2 or 3, certainly not 1. When running mine in, it significantly slowed down on the curves. I to only noticed the warning about 3rd radius limitations once I'd purchased it.
I've just read this morning the review in the December issue of Hornby Magazine. They say its a powerful runner. I say otherwise. Mine seems weak and slow. After seeing a Sam's Trains review of a Bachmann deisel loco with slipping drive shaft issues, I took the body off to see if my 18000 had the same issue. It didn't, so I'm thinking Heljan have used a cheap motor.
This evening (2021-11-15) I'll be trying it out on my Club's roundy round large layout. I hope it redeems itself or I've wasted my money.
Hi Andrew. Many thanks for your comments. Mine literally 'scraped' round the 3rd radius curves as far as the Setrack curved point as you could see. It stood no chance on 2nd and 1st radius. I must say that I've had no problems with power or speed for the loco. Possibly a quality issue. The only time I've ever had real quality issues is with Dapol locos and stock. Rails of Sheffield are taking returns provided the warranty/guarantee haven't been contravened. I'd be interested in hearing how it gets on with your club layout. Have you checked out my 'solved' and 'running' videos, links above. Cheers. Tim.
@@shanghai264359 Did you see my feedback from its club layout run ? I can't see my reply even though UA-cam said they added it. That often happens and is very annoying
@@andrewdking Hello again Andrew. No, I'm afraid I didn't see your feedback. That's happened to me before as well! Have you tried reposting it? That sometimes works. All the best. Tim.
@@shanghai264359 well I posted it again with different wording and it said it had been added. I can't see it, can you ?
@@andrewdking Hello Andrew. Still can't find it! That's completely weird. I know strange things do happen with YT from time time! Odd that your message here and others of yours came through with no probs. I've accounted for all my YT notifications. Did you post the feedback under this clip?
Nice looking loco shame about issues
Hi Mark. Many thanks for subscribing to my channel and for your comments. I've subbed back. Yes, it's such a pity about the running of the loco. Have you had a look at my two subsequent videos: 'Solved' video for 18000: ua-cam.com/video/pzDFsrM8Yd4/v-deo.html and 18000 running video: ua-cam.com/video/1GIlGxQH4VU/v-deo.html
Thanks again. Stay safe. Cheers. Tim.
@@shanghai264359 thank you and sure I will take a look at some more of the videos 🙂👍🏻
I find it very supprising that any loco manufactured for the UK market is not thoroughly tested on 2nd rad as this is commonly used by many models due to the lake of space . The only model I know of the has a recomended min of 3rd rad is the Hornby class 800 due to it's length but at lest thay do advise that I could not fine any ref to a min rad size on the Rails website For a model costing nearly £200 this should never hapen there are simple no excuses Were was the preproduction testing and inspection
Heljan are not the pnly ones to get this wrong I had a dapol class 121 that had a simler problem It was caused by some of the under frame detail that had to be filed down That was bad enough but I only payed £89 not £200 and was awere of the problem and the fix befoe I made the purche
Absolutely right Barry. Many thanks indeed for your comments. As you said all this should have been picked up at the pre-production stage which is what it's for. Such a pity because it's a lovely model. Cheers.
Hello again Barry. I meant to mention before that I've had quality control issues with all 3 of my Dapol models and am now avoiding them altogether. Just bad luck on my part I suppose. Cheers. Tim.
I have the same problem. I also went for the sound version, and sound operation is intermittent on some of the sounds. Oddly the cab lights only go on when stationary and turn off as soon as she moves.
Hi there. Many thanks for your comments. By Rails' own admission it seems to be a minority of people who have been experiencing these difficulties with the model. The majority of satisfied owners are likely to have curves of greater radius so have never experienced issues from the start. None of this is a justification for any of these problems. Yours is the first suggestion I've seen of possible issues with the decoder. Cheers. Tim.
The cab lights turning off when it moves will be deliberately programmed. Cab lights on a moving locomotive impede the ability to sight signals, crews were banned from driving with the cab lights on. The tightness in the bogies I've had also with the class 58 models, its sadly not a new problem for Heljan models to suffer.
@@Simon-Davis Interesting note about the 58.
"Did 18000 work for you?"................nope 😠
Hi. I've just run mine around 4th radius, it squeals and rattles but does get 'round without slowing pace, from a crawl to fast speed, albeit complaining. I'm ordering some 3rd radius to test. Have no set track turnouts to test for derailments though. Guess this is how the situation will remain. I can't see Heljan being able to offer any fix. I do think Rails should have made more of the "Works down to radius 3" warning. I certainly didn't know before I received it.
Hi Chris. Many thanks for your comments. Mine just about 'scraped' round my 3rd radius but only as far as the Setrack curved turnout. Rails of Sheffield admitted to me that there is no fix possible due to the design restraints of the prototype. Rails are still not mentioning the 3rd radius limitation on the website but only in the leaflet in the box. I hope they do a better job with the forthcoming model of 18100 which looks from the photos as though there might be similar restraints with the bogie design. I was told by Rails that the issue has only applied to a small number of customers. That doesn't make it acceptable! Have you checked out my 'solved' and 'running' videos, links above. Cheers. Tim.
My does the same thing, love it but really disappointed
Hello Mark. Many thanks for your comments. Yes, it is such a great shame that the problems weren't discovered much earlier in the design process. It is a beautiful model. I'm still waiting for a response from Rails about a possible fix which looks unlikely having studied the model closely. I have an idea for my own fix but it would be very risky and contravene the guarantee/warranty so I'd be stuck if it went wrong. I plan to wait to hear from Rails first. Cheers. Tim.
Had enough, so I got a refund from Rails.
Can't say I blame you. I'm in the process of attempting some modifications which will, of course void the guarantee. It's a bit of a botch job but it doesn't look horrific and it now runs on curves down to 1st radius if it ever needs to. I'll be posting a video shortly. Cheers. Tim.
hi i would have thought 2nd radius would be better, 3rd radius is for Thomas the tank engine and the Caledonian Pug type locos, which have short wheel bases
Hi Peter. Many thanks for your comments. The radii surely work the other way round. I think you'll find 1st radius is the smallest for short wheel bases and the 3rd radius is bigger and suitable for bigger locos. Cheers. Tim.
sent mine back, rubbish on the bends
Hi Bob. Many thanks for your comments. It certainly is a great disappointment.
Well as the real 18000 had a minimum radius of 4.5 chains at walking pace, which works out at 3ft 7in radius in OO scale, maybe you expect to much ! Further as you appear to be using a code 100 clip together track system, itself introduced around 40 years ago, you are asking for trouble. As this modern model has wheels and wheel profiles designed for modern code 75 track !!!
May I suggest you need a bigger layout space, with larger curves. I myself model in OO but being a Railway Locomotive Mechanical Engineer, I understand the Laws of Physics. Which clearly state: With every degree of curvature in the track, the power available in the locomotive must be increased by the SQUARE ROOT. Which does of course assume the loco is of course actually designed to negotiate the curves you are trying to send it around. I myself set my layout minimum radius at 5ft, so your model would happily work around my layout without problems !!!!
Happy Modelling. 😝
Hi James. Many thanks for viewing the video and for taking the time to post your comments. I bow to your expertise in the realm of Railway Locomotive Mechanical Engineering. My only qualification is a CSE Grade 1 in woodwork in 1967! The only part of Railway Locomotive Mechanical Engineering I understand is that every loco in my sizeable collection certainly copes with 3rd radius curves and 95% of them handle 1st radius too. This includes my American diesels and all my European, Chinese and British outline models too. I love my 18000 loco and was massively disappointed when it struggled with the 3rd radius. I wasn't the only one judging by the comments under various 18000 YT videos, including my own. The Rails website still isn't mentioning that the model is restricted to 3rd radius curves and I fear for the forthcoming 18100 recently announced by Rails. I honestly don't know what code track mine is. I just know that everything else runs over all radii with no issues. Incredibly this includes the original Rivarossi 'Big Boy' from the mid-1970's. Have you seen my videos of that on my channel?
In any event I already have the biggest layout I can possibly fit into my humble semi in South-East London, and that is a 'fold-down'! When the 18000 model was first announced I had no hesitation in pre-ordering one. Over the years nobody told me that I might need a physics degree just to run my trains. I'm happy that you are able to operate with a minimum 5 foot radius and I'm sure that 18000 would, indeed, run beautifully. If you haven't already done so why not have a look at my 'solved' and 'running' videos of 18000 in the above YT links. Just a word of warning though. You might need a sedative before watching the 'solved' video. Many people have been seen running out of their homes screaming in horror having watched it!
Thanks again for your comments. Stay safe and happy modelling.😆
I would ask for my money back on the model :-)
Hi Andrew. Many thanks for your comment. It is an option but it's a nice model and it would need to be a last resort. I'll wait a bit and see what they say. All the best.
Wow its a terrible runner.
Hi Graham. Many thanks for your comment. It certainly started out that way. Have you checked out my 'solved' and 'running' videos, links above. Cheers. Tim.