Our Defender breaks down 300km from the nearest town | Quobba | Land Rover recovery review | Ep 26
Вставка
- Опубліковано 21 лип 2023
- In this episode of our @nextleveloz Lap Gap Year we head to Quobba Blowholes, change our plans and head to Karijini National Park and on the way the Defender breaks down. Land Rover decides it has to be towed to the nearest service centre 800km south of us, leaving us and the van without a car.
We do a complete review of the breakdown and Land Rover's roadside assistance and recovery process. The good, the bad and the ugly.
Have you checked what your various car and van recovery covers actually do for you if you break down in remote Australia?
Welcome to Episode 26 of our Big Lap Gap Year. We're David and Paula @NextLevelOZ. Like many of you, we've worked hard for 40 years, but we are too young to retire. So we're taking a gap year from work, we've bought our first ever caravan and are doing a Big Lap around Australia taking in the iconic destinations of our fabulous country.
This channel is for fun and to share our trip of a lifetime and 100% of any ad revenue earned goes to charity.
We'd love your comments, questions and tips. We hope you will like and subscribe and we look forward to sharing our journey around this magnificent country.
I’ve been ummming and Arrrrring about a Landrover and this has pretty much made up my mind.. Thanks for the detail…
No problem! Sorry to hear that, but all we can do is share and people will make up their own minds about the relative options. People have different priorities and the options now are different to the options we had as well. Call us mad but we are sticking with it - for the moment anyway. And hope it gets us safely through the lap and we can weight the full experience then. All the best.
Very sorry to hear your story David but you have covered it off in a very comprehensive and balanced manner. Many thanks for the time and effort you have spent. Its was extremely helpful to us.
Hi thanks so much for watching and the feedback. Much appreciated. We be had our teeth gnashing moments of course - but for the VLOG we try our best to be balanced when we do these rare equipment type reviews. If the share helps people plan - that’s terrific. cheers
@@nextleveloz all the best on your travels👍
@@shawsie5780 Thank you.
Wow. Thanks for the honest and forthright feedback which i find very interesting. Your patience must have worn very thin through this process so thanks for presenting such a balanced view in the video.
Thanks for watching. And yes, there are groomed teeth moments for sure. But that’s also why we left a bit of time to actually present the review. There is a bit more to come yet - stay tuned. cheers
You brought a Landover, we all make mistakes. My brother is going through it at the moment.
😂🤣Thanks for watching. We had hoped (and still do with reservations) that the Defender might be different, and as you saw there were some aspects of the customer service that were commendable, some bits not so. A but more to come yet but hopefully we get it all resolved.
@bradley. Bought not brought.
Ha Ha, sorry, that`s not funny for your bro, what was he thinking!?
@@nextlevelozwhat broke down actually?
@@dannelleabajar4703 It was an electrical fault in one of the turbos. At first they thought it was a kinked vacuum harness in the turbo system - which was linked and did need replacement but over two recoveries they identified it as an electrical and/or sensor fault in one of the turbos but couldn’t barrow it down so they replaced the vaccuum harness and both turbos and we haven’t had an issue since.
Great video and thanks for sharing!
And thank you for watching. Cheers
Thanks for sharing your story. Your calmness is remarkable. You are a braver man than me. We have images of the last Disco4 model sitting on top of a flatbed truck at Bramwell Roadhouse at the start of the Tele Track. The rego was ONTOP. Lots of people taking photos. Everyone i know who owned a land rover product were plagued by issues that proved intractable and the vehicles being sold. I admire your perseverance..i hope you have blue skies from here in.
Thanks for watching and the good wishes. There is a bit more to come in the coming weeks, but hopefully after that 🤞🤞. We've had our moments of frustration for sure. And we are only human - it is frustrating and disappointing when the car breaks down. I'm hoping all that does get addressed because - as silly as it sounds right now - when the car is on song, it's brilliant. And while the fickle and inconsistent (and sometimes outright bad) service culture perception at JLR is at times infuriating - as you will have seen, in this adversity there were a couple of examples of the first rate service LR customers shoud expect. So, noting I'm certainly not LR tribal - or for that matter any car brand tribal - we think the Defender is potentially a remarkable car - and the million dollar question is whether JLR can execute the opportunity and back it up.And we hope so - which is why we give the bouquets when they occur and the brickbats when they don't. We're just one couple though AND we didn't get into this to be car or van or anything else reviewers. We are trying to have a gap year from work and stress .
thanks for Sharing. happy travels
Thanks for watching and the good wishes. Stay safe and thanks for helping us send some money off to charity while we share - even if it’s not good news 🙄
Great vid,thanks for the information😊.
Thanks for watching and the feedback. Cheers
Thanks for sharing the experience as it has been very informative. Sorry you had to go through it all. Especially the issue relating to towing of the van. Good luck with your travels
Thanks for watching and the comment. We love the feedback. There is more to come but in the next occasion they actually tow the van with the car and we will show why it became important in this particular issue. Hopefully though everybody checked their respective covers so they can maximise the support and use them all to best effect of they ever need them.
WHAT, a Land Rover "BREAKING DOWN" 😮, who'd have guessed!
Ta for the harsh experience story, and for telling it so fairly. I sometimes wonder when in remote WA (we live in Perth) what would happen if we had the misfortune to break down. Now we have your experience to be fully aware of our coverage (Ultimate Plus) shortcomings and how to respond accordingly. Not that it will help or comfort you, but thanks. We look forward to your next ep to see how the story continues. Nice Zone by the way….
But it does help you plan and best to have no surprises if the tare unfortunate breakdown occurs. Thanks for watching and the comment - it’s much appreciated and the main aim of sharing was the hope people would check and know their covers. Love the Zone (and mostly love the Defender when it’s behaving!! 🙄). The Zone has a couple of minor breakages ATM - but it’s been through some tougher stuff and handled it well and needs a tub - like it’s owner (one of me anyway!! 🤣)
In 2022 we had a major mechanical breakdown in tow vehicle with van 40kms from Biloela, Qld. RACV top cover was terrific. They covered and organised the recovery cost of van and vehicle back to Geelong plus two airfares from Biloela and 3 nights accommodation. Top cover Roadside assist is a must for all LR owners.
Thanks for that example it’s very useful. Yes and RACQ ultimate care is similar IF you have a trip ending breakdown like you did. But they are also similar in that there is a gap if you have a breakdown that’s not trip ending but your car and van end up in different locations in remote areas, noting if it’s newer car with a brand level road side assist / warranty provisions the car might be towed under different arrangements (even if it’s the same tow company) So it’s generally about 100-200km for the van with a bit of latitude depending on where the auto club depot is but if you need further than than but not all the way home - you pay the difference. If you want the car and van together and it’s not home you pay the difference. If it’s accident related your insurance might have a km limit or a total cost limit. So like you in our case if it was deemed the breakdown was major and the car was coving to be off the road for a prolonged period - we could get home and the van could get home. The car wasn’t getting home in this case because it was under LR arrangements. It would be so much easier if there were dollar limits and you could simply draw on the various overlapping or diverging products. But bottom line is know what you cover is for what circumstances and plan accordingly. So we could potentially have ended our lap and got home but for the recovery options short of that but longer than 200km from a service centre the gap appeared. Thanks again - it’s a useful share. And yea that too cover is essential for long distance towing even if it’s not perfect.
RACQ Ultimate has just arranged repairs for our son and family after their Hiluxes gearbox broke twice (different problems) near Cairns while towing their camper heading for Cape York. The help has included finding suitable workshops for repairs, motel accommodation and money towards 2 hire vehicles able to tow the camper, one to continue to Cape York and a second hire vehicle to tow the camper back to Brisbane. While there is some cost to our son, it's only part of the total. Ultimate is definitely the way to go. So your experiences are not a specific Land Rover thing, it's the way it is for everyone, in our son's case with a Toyota.
@@michaelsecomb4115 Good share thanks. The lessons apply more widely, I agree. My car is under warranty so RAC ( we are in WA currently) only provide the initial response under contract, the car has to be dealt with by LR road side assist. So not initiated under the RACQ system. But in my case we rang RACQ to see what we could do as complementary support - they would tow the van 100km (or 200km to an RACQ depot) OR if the car repair was going to be a long time they would tow the van home. We felt the car was driveable for the short term so given the limitation we recovered ourselves to Exmouth (280km from the overnight road house we came back to after the second limp mode incident. We would likely have asked RACQ to recover the van had the car been towed from the more remote site to either complement or instead of LR’s inadequate 50km coverage.
Cairns is a major centre so the initial support would easily fall with those distances (which is great). And RACQ if they do the recovery will provide a rental car. I suspect they would have difficulty providing a car to tow a 3.5 tonne van though (with brake controllers and anderson plugs) but more likely to source a car that can be adapted for a camper trailer (🤷). There was no rental car anywhere near us that was equipped to tow our van. So RACQ Ultimate care is good - no issue. But it doesn’t provide the gap coverage if you are several hundreds of km away. In that case you have to pay the difference. So it’s to a near major centre (and i’ve heard they are a bit flexible) or hike if it’s a trip ender and that’s regardless of car model as the RACQ cover the driver (although they still ask you to nominate a car). If the hi luxes were under warranty they would likely be towed by Toyota to a dealer, probably not wit the van and you’d have to get to the car when it’s fixed. RACQ might provide some support for the van (ultimate care) in that case but only to the 100km/200km limits. Keep in mind our car was towed 800km away (the Land Rover model) and when we went into limo mode we were more than 300 km from a town. An interesting test case would be what RACQ did if somebody broke down at the tip (which is 1000km from Cairns) . would they recover to Cairns or Cooktown (800km) or Weipa perhaps.
But the important thing is for people to check and know what is going to happen if something goes wrong.
This is why I've always got a powerful diagnostics tool onboard in the IID tool. Most "roadside assist" guys will carry pretty basic code readers that aren't going to be able to interrogate or reset the complex systems on a JLR vehicle.
Thanks for watching and sharing . Which IID tool do you prefer?
@@nextleveloz no worries, it’s good to see an honest appraisal of the Defender! The IID Bluetooth (BT) is all you need. It’ll give you dealer level diagnostics and live data as well as the ability to make configuration changes etc. I use mine with my L322 Range Rover but it does have full functionality for your Defender too. The Pro model is for workshops and allows multiple VIN numbers to be used.
Same here with my Disco 4 (LR4). In my opinion the IID tool should be considered required kit for Land Rovers.
@@gkcamden9050 absolutely, wouldn’t be without mine now.
@@nextleveloz probably a can of petrol and a lighter
I drive a large tow truck on the south coast of NSW.Very common issue for us is that the NHVR have actually put limits on what we can tow behind our trucks,my twin steer Isuzu is only allowed to tow 2100kgs legally,so all the large vans have to be towed on top of the tray which means one truck for the van and one for the tow vehicle.As for reliability, we know what will get you there and back and the Euro stuff should never leave the big cities,just too unreliable.
Hi, thanks for the comment and good perspective as a towing. I saw that limit. Interesting. In a future episode you will see that the Whyatt guys who are LR Servicer Centre but also an RAC contractor put our car on the tilt bed and towed our van. You see this a bit in remote WA. BTW how many Defenders and 300’s have you towed so far (the very new models)?
@nextleveloz Hi,as we are on the south coast of NSW,land rovers are not very popular,200 and 300 series are very popular along with the 79 series.From memory,we have not towed any landcruisers for a legitimate breakdown,only for putting the wrong fuel in.Hopefully your issues have been sorted out and you get a lot of trouble free motoring ahead.
@@toymuncher2 Thanks mate. It’s all good input and much appreciated to add to the discussion. 7000km since the turbos were replaced and it’s going well and been through some tougher than average terrain. So 🤞. cheers
Great video. I cant believe you are so calm about the situation. You only made one mistake and that was not getting a 300 series Land cruiser instead of a Landy
😂Good one. The same Toyota tragic who told me not to buy a Landie told me not to buy the 300 for a couple of years! We didn't like the 300 for a couple of reasons - but the car wasn't even available at the time and the 200 was no longer available new and the 200 second hand market had gone loopy. At that time Toyota dealers were taking frisia's for cars they could never deliver - indeed the order list exceeded several years production. So it wasn't an option in any case for our Lap / van delivery. On that point though / why is a new yet to be released 300 inherently more reliable? So funny yes, but no it wasn't an option and ultimately it's not clear how good or not the 300 is/will be for a couple of years anymore than the Defender and is Toyota that much better when something goes wrong ? I don't know. But LOL!
Well, I've seen many 200s on flatbeds with van in tow in my travels as well as other brands it must be said.
@@sbGOM If you look at the number sold to the number of LR's sold,% wise the true number of 200's that have manufacturers issues would be minimal.There is a reason after 20yrs of modern LR's we moved on to the other brand,and couldn't be happier.I must say,this is a very good,honest review.It should be noted that this vehicle also has another issue which the manufacturer seems unable to sort.
@paulbarry1044 Don't disagree with that, BUT there's a prevailing view that the LC200 is unbreakable and bulletproof, which simply isn't true. Not to mention the cost of modification to make them fit for purpose. No. I'm not suggesting the LC200 has the same level of poor reliability as the equivalent LR product but the reputation the LC200 enjoys approaches mythical status and rides on the backs of its predecessors like the 80,90 and 100 series 6 cylinder diesel and petrol vehicles that truly deserve their reputation for amazing durability. And then there's the 79 series....
@@sbGOM Agree,but the vehicle in this vid certainly needed some mods as well,(in the first vid)to make it fit for purpose,then there is the weight issue,running right on it's rear axle weight limits,another worry as no GVM upgrade available.
We used RACQ Ultimate last year for a tow of our car and van from Birdsville to Mt Isa. The cost of the tow was $5300, that came out of our travel entitlements under the Ultimate cover. But because we used this we could not claim the van park fees while we waited in Mt Isa for parts and repairs.
Under travel entitlements there is vehicle recovery to your chosen location. We still had $1700 from the yearly $7000 left if we had to use it again in that year.
Hi, thanks for the comment and watching. Interesting example thank you. Ultimate care only tows up to 200km, but good in your case that they allowed extra to be deducted against other aspects of the cover. They have changed the options and covers now. We’ve just changed to RV Ultimate.
RACQ ultimate is excellent, my discovery 3 with van broke down at inskip point, They gave me the option to get car to nearest Land Rover dealer or tow both home, I decided to get home. RACQ tow also took the car to the preferred repairer, RACQ also paid for accommodation in inskip point as tow truck was arranged early morning pickup. Turns out brake light switch was putting D 3 in limp home mode, fix under $100. Tow cost zero, RACQ ultimate FANTASTIC
Which is great - as we have RACQ Ultinate care also - until you are much more than 200km from an RACQ depot. So as we found IF the car broke down ended the lap we could get the van home separate to the car which headed to a dealer 800km away but otherwise you have to pay the difference between the actual travel distance and 100km to the nearest safe recovery point or 200km if there is an RACQ depot. So if we were at Inskip Point there are heaps of options as you found (great) but a gap in the respective covers if you are on day the Gibb River Road. So it’s worth owners contemplating their plans in detail if they are doing the very remote stuff so they know their options.
@@nextleveloz good point on the distance limit, so that makes one think that since it is essentially an insurance policy, would the risk factor be altered by the vehicle used ?
What I’m hoping the share might help with is for people to check their respective recovery plans for their car (if new and as has a roadside assist package or if older and covered by their auto club plan) along with the provisions for their van so they know what they can and can’t get and what they have to pay extra for if the unfortunate happens to them. For most van owners traveling up and down the coast they are likely to be fine between their care and the top RACQ (equivalent) plan. But if they want to do the remote stuff they might need to consider r their contingencies in detail so they aren’t surprised. It’s with noting Land Rover car recovery is actually pretty good- they tow the car back to a dealer (800km in this case) and return it when it’s repaired. I understand other major brands recover to the nearest dealer also but don’t return the car, you have to get the car back to wherever the van was recovered to. So we had considered this but had been told a completely different thing about what LR would do with the van. But it’s a good topic for van owners to consider in detail.
There ya go you could have cleared the code yourself with an icarsoft code reader or similar
This is why I keep my old land rover 1982 V8. No electronics to fail.
Well the latter bit is certainly true. And as for the other issues? But if it’s still
going happily after 30 years, then enjoy! cheers
Thanks for the video, very informative. Great when things work, crap when they don’t. All cars have their issues and nothing is perfect in this world, not even “reliable” Toyota’s… there are issues with the new LC300s too… and there is not a solid and reliable vehicle on the market unfortunately. Hopefully issues are fixed - if it gives you enjoyment, plus a comfortable and luxurious ride, go for it.. you only live once! 🎉 Plus, it is a great looking car 🚘. Def will look into finally ordering obd reader, even in less remote areas.
Thanks for watching and commenting. We love it. It’s true that we were torn by the fact there wasn’t an abundance of great choices. a fact is we loved driving and the features of the Defender. We were aware of Land Rover’s reputation. The LC 200 had already been discontinued and the LC300 was on a promise but wouldn’t actually be available for another 12 months when we bought. We didn’t necessarily like it anyway and it was going to be the first run of a brand new model in any case. So we weren’t sure it was likely to be inherently more reliable and the few that were on show didn’t appeal anyway. The big trucks were too big for access at our inner city home. The Ranger was more marginal for weight management and we did contemplate the y62. we weren’t planning the lap for another year or so than eventually happened.so the car had to be my town car as well as our touring car. Our theory was we’d have it and know the issues if any in the first couple of years of ownership. That proved to be true 😂🙄. But we were on the road. So we felt it was the best compromise (and we liked it). So it’s disappointing to have experienced these issues. But for the moment we will persist and keep a long the most of what we can. Stay tuned, there is more to come but we how there is some light at the end of the tunnel as well.
Thanks for telling your story, sorry it has so far been not always positive. I commend the way you tell your story without shaming/naming those who do not give adequate service, good to give those a shout out to those who give good service. I have club 4x4 insurance which I hope you end up naming as the way to go, looking forward to the next episode unfortunately by the sounds of things it doesn't go well. I was hoping to have a very similar setup (Landrover with Zone expedition) in 12-18 months time so very interseted to see how your unbised review continues.
Thanks mate. And can you tell us more about club 4x4 cover? it could be a useful share. Yes there is more to come and I hope there is some light at the end of the tunnel. I’m not trying to hold out in suspense - it’s about trying to tell the story in order and not get too long (as this episode really was). We try to be unbiased. It’s human to have some leanings and some frustration but our aim is not to sell a brand or bag a brand but tell the story and maybe people can make their own best decision. There are a few Defender / Zone owners now and most of those haven’t had issues with their car. So 🤞. but keep watching and hopefully it all gets clearer and helps ( for us too !!)
It is a Land Rover after all.
😂😉🙄🤣 Thanks mate. Stay well.
Thanks for the thorough explanation of what happened ( so far ) David.
I agree that how LR handled the rental vehicle situation is extremely poor.
LR should definitely reimburse u 100 % of the cost to get a hire vehicle from Europcar, under the circumstances.
I think most manufacturers subcontract out their toll free
“ breakdown assist service “
This situation can be hit or miss, depending on who takes your call.
Some people will be more helpful etc, then others.
If u r getting stuffed around, try speaking to someone else, and / or escalate the matter, and speak to a Manager / Team Leader etc.
This process should help you get better service and assistance.
Always keep notes about this stuff.
ie the name of who u spoke to, and when etc
The LR Assist towing benefit for a caravan is very poor.
As u say, this is an example of where it pays to know / read the fine print / T & C’s regarding ALL aspects of the manufacture Roadside Assist.
And taking out Top Cover Roadside Assistance, with RACQ etc, is highly worthwhile, but that u also need to know the limitations and fine print / T & C etc, of this policy.
With regards to the ongoing and unresolved issue of the Defender going into
2 WD mode, I hope that you have lodged this issue with CRC, as this would hopefully help to get this matter resolved.
Obviously, breakdown etc in a remote area, is harder to deal with, compared to it happening in an area of high population etc, but, in 2023, considering the huge numbers of people, like you, who are travelling around Australia, you’d think that all manufacturers would have better systems in place, to manage and deal with customers who experience breakdown or vehicle issues, in the remote areas of Australia ! 🤷🏻♂️
Looking forward to the upcoming videos.
Good luck. 👍
💯mate. Pretty much summarises our thoughts. LR are absolutely aware of the 2WD issue. But no news on that.
Your video has been very helpful. My wife and I are currently looking for a vehicle to fulfil our towing and lifestyle requirements. I did drop into the local Landrover dealer. To be honest, I was unimpressed with the attitude and honesty of the salesman. Landrover have a poor reputation for reliability. I raised this with the salesman, and he arrogantly stated this reputation is unwarranted.
Your experiences indicate my deep concerns are probably warranted. Landrover make what is potentially a fantastic vehicle. Failing to resolve ongoing electronic, or software issues is very poor. Far worse is failing to support customers who have purchased their product and are in need of real and immediate support.
SHAME on you Landrover! This is DISGUSTING and DISGRACEFUL.
Hi thanks for watching. It’s hard isn’t it and the sales guys would say that - but JLR has to work harder to address the perception even if its not true. Our experience with service has been so mixed. The Whyatt team in Geraldton were as good as we have experienced with any car brand we’ve had. Just to be clear - the recovery for the car was overall very good. The cover for the accompanying van and the lack of rental car (until we found one) is very poor. But there is no excuse for a poor approach by a sales team. They know they have a perception issue and need a better approach when people Ike you ask them. I’m not a rep for or against Land Rover or any other brand for that matter. Our assessment os the car concept is brilliant, JLR itself not so much and the jury is very much out for the moment.
Lucky for them they still have enough wood ducks to buy the faulty product
Thanks for the very honest and informative reflections/review. I’m thinking of doing the same as well. However I have owned 4wd for over 20years and know the car well. There’s not much electronics in mine as there are in new cars, especially the new Defender. I would take the towie’s advice and not leave the city with it. In my limited opinion (everybody has one at least), it is made for European conditions. Even Americans have problems with it being unable to properly diagnose, repair or replace parts. Some of the designs like the 18/19/20 inch wheels are just silly for off road. No doubt the traction control is world’s best and the interior is second to none, but in an Australian condition, the new LR is just not good enough. It’s good for school runs, shopping, city stuff, maybe the hobby farm too, that’s it.
As one bloke said, probably stick with Japanese for reliability, parts and familiarity for mechs to work with. One that does not required dealership workshop computers to diagnose. Knowing the car, knowing how to fix the car helps too, bring spare parts. Can’t rush these massive outback holidays, unless you’re going out with several cars/mates..
Thanks for watching and the comment. All thoughts made respectfully are welcome. I’m still not convinced by the suggestion the 300 and other cars from herein are going to be fixed on the road and not require dealer diagnoses and repair. The sense that future Toyotas - albeit some tips to the heritage - can be tinkered with like the FJ or the 80 is going to be less true. But time will tell for sure. Watch the next “ equipment episode” when i cover what went wrong. It’s something that could happen to many cars. On the wheels - as you saw i converted to 18s from the 20. Been happy with the Tuff Ant and Maxxis Razr. The jury is still very much out for me on the car as an entire package. It tows nicely, it does the off road stuff very well and as as crosseover between town and touring car it is a balanced package - BUT it has to be mechanically reliable and JLR need to be able to promptly support it if and when things do go wrong. So i think it is so much better than a school run car but as watchers of the channel will know - it’s had several issues and I can’t resile from that yet. Let’s see what the complete Lap (if we complete it) brings. Thanks again. cheers
I have no idea how reliable LR are these days, but when I worked in a LR dealership it was the most tilt trayed vehicle I have ever worked on, I had worked in two other dealerships with common cars like Ford, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Honda (less common back then) and we also did Mazda and Suzuki in that LR dealership, LR was rubbish, great ideas but poor design and mechanical quality on average. I called them the Hansel and Gretel of 4x4, it would make a trackers job easy if the LR got lost as there would be oil trails, and anyone tells me their LR has no leaks, I will tell you the same as I tell everyone else, YOU HAVE RUN OUT OF OIL.
Thats old news, most problem free vehicle is the Mitsu Pajero, pity not sold anymore
@@lot6129 😂😂😂
Geez it’s difficult. Ive been in the industry as an auctioneer for 37 years. Had company cars for 5000-15000km. Owned range rover landrover landcruiser 45, 60,75,5x79v8s, 80, 100,200,300, hilux. Have a genuine 45 in shed. Also patrol. I have a real soft spot for landrover. Hate toyotas attitude, so ive even looked at G wagon. Sadly everytime I think “im gunna buy a new 110 etc” videos with these issues pop up. I then return my mind back to the toyotas. Im currently running a ST himux to see if i can live with ghe 2.8 and auto before buying another 70. We shall see. Inwish you all the best
The issues in the bid are now 8 months old. We will update shortly but we also have to be fair. The turbo is fixed and 20k down the track now and looks like a couple of other niggles are now on track to be resolved. I added a bit more in reply to your souter comment, but thank you.
Great area and now popular with US expats (Texans)
Have a couple of You Tubers living there….
Very peaceful and some great little eateries!
Sorry to hear about your experience we work hard for our holidays and the last thing we need is the stress of this type of things remember Lemon laws apply to vehicles like this if it continues to be an issue - repair/replace or refund.
Thanks for watching. And yes, the Australian Consumer Laws require new cars to be fit for the purpose they are sold for- for sure. Yes it has had an impact on our gap year. Currently we are nearly 9000km on from the breakdowns - so 🤞.
I feel for you guys, lucky you don’t have a Jeep, 5 years we have had the limp home problem happening, still not fixed. We have had a major Infineon failure and replaced under warranty and still goes into limp home mode. Just turn it off for 30 seconds, start up and head off good for a day or two. Thanks to RACV when the engine blew in the Margaret River and couldn’t be fix for weeks, they towed the car and van to vic and flew us to Melbourne, RACV every time..
Thanks Neil. No we didn’t buy a Jeep. Sorry you’ve had that recurring issue. Yes the RACV and RACQ return to home coverage for that catastrophic trip ending incident is a welcome part of that top cover
Thx for sharing. What level of RACV cover did you have - might have to upgrade to the same level ( and I drive a relatively modern Toyota…lol)
Thx for sharing. Hoping you are now back on the road enjoying what you set out to do. Was the fault a kinked vacuum hose or loom ? If either, it’s a design or production issue.
Agree with your commentary elsewhere in this post, that these type of faults are prevalent in all brands and new models
Cheers
Thanks for watching. Yes it was a kinked vacuum harness/loom. It was replaced with a new part (part number). But as you will see in a future episode, it ended up being a bit more than that. Hopefully its a new model thing and gets sorted. We have a bit more drama to come yet. Thanks for the good wishes- much appreciated. Stay safe. Cheers
One thing you can always rely on is that a land rover will break down and leave you stranded. An American car review chanel went through three of them trying to review the new defender, in the end they gave up trying to shoot the review.
That was right at the first release if I recall correctly? I saw that after I had my car and hoped it was the initial bugs!
I read somewhere regarding the Australian outback that if you want to go out to the outback take a land rover if you want to get back take a Toyota
@@avisilvermann2838 Bwah ha ha. 😂. Cracks me up every time. Thanks for watching - and the Dad joke.
Oh dear. The TFL video. It was actually 1 of those vehicles, which was the fault of the manufacturer ( still not good enough). The other issues were caused by the dealer.
A very interesting video. I would like to add, that as a 67yr old, customer service, after sales service in all industries has declined to unacceptable levels (with rare exceptions).
Companies are always willing to take your money and promise services they know they can never deliver.
And people work hard for their money and cars aren’t cheap especially with other living costs going up. $130k plus for a car is a hefty investment isn’t it? So seeking a premium service experience isn’t too much to expect. I would say though, the guys at Whyatt Land Rover delivered wonderful service. When was the last time an employee came in on a wet and blustery long weekend in order to help get your car diagnosed and fixed as quickly as possible. So - those detractors aside (and of course a break down is never good) - on this occasion they turned around a major incident in good time - and had they towed the van first time and cut out a couple of silly things everything would have been in half that time again and recovery costs significantly reduced. So they got very close to delivering an exemplary service that defies that entrenched reputation they have to work to get rid of. And in fairness would any other brand really have met that benchmark?
Thanks for sharing David - I’m around the same age and have owned probably far too many vehicles for a lifetime - what I’ve learned through ownership is the particular makes that have been consistently reliable with reasonably good service culture and support - I have an avionics background so I have good mechanical sympathy and appreciation of things well made - as a consequence I’ve had many Subarus through lifestyle changes and now my second Toyota 4WD (‘02 manual to an automatic ‘10 Hilux) - unfortunately LandRover, like Jeep, Mercedes, RAM, GMC and anything Chinese or Indian are to be avoided with a barge pole - LandRover Defender is actually made in Slovenia and the other models in Brazil - stick with Japanese (not Nissan/Renault),Thai or South Korean only - this is not just my opinion as you only have to research unbiased global and local customer review surveys to see what brands are consistently at the bottom.
Thanks for the comment. Yes the Defender is made in the JLR factory at Nitra rather than Solihull - not that being UK built has helped. Unfortunately for us - while we are not brand tribal - we’ve become accustomed to German engineering and some excellent dealers - and while they have issues, they do their damdest to make good to preserve their reputation. But they don’t make a touring / tow car. There weren’t many choices for us. We did like the Defender and conceptually it is an excellent car and when on song it’s brilliant (i always acknowledge to myself the inherent conflict in that statement). The 300 wasn’t available and I was very wary of a new model and first production and tbh they have had some reported issues, but it didn’t matter, it wasn’t available. The 200 market was crazy and getting a car that had been floghed or driven in salt water or just and unreliable history for a ridiculous price at that stage didn’t appeal either. I’m hearing you on that perception - because that’s what ultimately informs consumer feedback - and I wish there was some more transparent reporting of incidence- but no make will do that. So I’ve been pretty honest about my views and in the latest case the ethos of the team at Whyatts was encouraging even if it’s an exception. But good share, I appreciate it and people ultimately can only work on their experience and the reports from people they trust. So it’s a welcome perspective. cheers
@@nextleveloz thanks for taking the time to reply respectfully David - I wish you both all the best with the journey and get to Karijini as I did.
3 x Jeeps have been extremely reliable for me since 2002. Maybe not best to tour with but I’ve traveled most states without a hitch. Steve
@@emu4wdadventures631 That’s a great experience. And ironic that Jeep along with LR have a reputation. Glad you’ve had a good run though. Thanks for watching and sharing.
Made in USA is great too, remember next time you fly, its Boeing, we just dont get a selection here
Land Rover must be getting better, they usually don’t make it that far. 🤪
We used to have similar problems out in western QLD Birdsville. We couldn’t fix them without the LR software. Had to load them onto the road train back to Adelaide, that was the nearest dealer workshop.
Nice car just not built for outback conditions.
Sorry for the delay in responding. In the end the car did very well and we've posted a warts and all wrap up. I did have a chuckle at the Dad joke though (LOL). I've also heard the other one - they are out back cars.. they will get you out but not back... and any number of variants. No question the brand tries to keep servicing etc inside the eco system. We now have a GAPIID with LR specific software to help. In the end I was happy. The turbo failure - poor, but it's a third party component from one of the two bigger manufacturers of turbos, so that technology is in a number of other cars as well. None of the other things we dealt with stopped the car and 32,000 km of Lap we had a ball. Anyway thought I'd provide the update. I think most of the modern cars from varied brands are increasingly going to go back to their dealership networks to be fixed.
Reliability has to be #1. I had Land Rovers for 30 years and suffered dozens of breakdowns, tows and extended waits to repair services. Whilst I had great support from RACQ, I saved time and money when I changed to another brand a few years ago, that offers a long warranty, cap price servicing and proven reliability in diesel engine technology. The Land Rover brand is junk on my automotive reliability ranking.
Thanks for watching. Do they ever restore the faith? My jury is still out. The concept of the Defender is great. Indeed it can perform so well. So the question is can JLR actually improve the backup this sort of car and Australian travel might need. That’s my question. I got such good service from Whyatts and when you see the response for the recovery this time - despite the obvious upfront issue - they got dangerously close to providing a remote recovery service to help offset the lack of footprint - but then important details slipped. Watch my next review on that ?? But this episode was really to send the broader message that we’ve got back on the road. But I hear you - i’m not a sales person for LR or for other brands so our total experience will inform our end of Lap judgement. cheers
Sorry to hear of your trip David. Like you I prefer something other than the other reliable vehicles. Mine is a X5 E70 4.8i. Yep waiting on the feedback. Done plenty of out back trips but yes have had a few stupid breakdowns with coolant hoses etc but I do carry three levels of diagnostic tools. Anyways , I have NRMA premium care and insurance, I had a heater hose let go near Broken Hill NSW, no worries, accomodation for the hight and tilt tray home to Sydney 100okms. Seems like other states car clubs don't do as well. Cheers Gaz
Hi thanks for watching and the comment. What do you tow and what wheels / tyres do you have on it? The X5 has no shortage of power and torque should be ok, but while its AWD, BMW didn’t really do an off-road tourer option that we felt would go sone of the places we were planning/ have been. So while we have driven BMWs around town and for Highway driving for years, even our dealer admitted they didn’t really have an option for the sort of stuff we were planning. What are your thoughts on that? Most state car clubs have an equivalent of the former Premium care (its no longer offered and NRMA like RACQ has changed their cover packages. The top covers all have a return to home option as the fail-safe, bit only 100-200km for towing for service. Which isn’t much. RACQ now have an RV package which has towing the equivalent of Cape to Cairns (a bit over 1000km) as well as return to home. It wasn’t available for caravan towing when we departed on the lap and when they changed the options they gave us some wrong info 🤦♂️. But weve now upgraded to that. Again thanks for watching and commenting - we appreciate it.
It’s difficult when issues arise while you’re on the road towing. It teaches you to make decisions on the go (good lessons if they are right or wrong) but also piles on stress you don’t need. Your experience with the fine print of the RSA is a good lesson for everyone. The 50km tow for your van is just not appropriate for a place like Australia and should never have been approved for a product like RSA. All the best with the fix and travels.
Thanks for watching and agree on the RSA. I will have more to say about it noting the LR models is based on the fact they don’t have a wide dealership network coverage, so it makes ensuring there is adequate coverage for the rig to accommodate LRs model of long distance recovery more imperative. But the 50km is a joke. 💯
I had a similar problem years ago with a Land Rover, that’s why I changed to Toyota, that’s 12 years ago, never had a problem since.
It good that you’ve had a good run with your current car. Let’s hope ours is an aberration not a recurring issue. So far so good on the replaced turbos. 🤞
Sorry to hear about your experience, such a shame particularly with a new vehicle. Any make of car has the risk of breaking down however LR vehicles are statistically proven to have a higher risk of failure, for this reason I have never been comfortable with the proposition of owning an LR. Thank you for the content and all the best with your travels. Cheers,
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment. Such a lot was placed on the R and D into the new Defender TBH that and several other factors meant we made the decision that way. I hope we haven’t got it wrong - and the confidence has taken a shaking. As an aside you say statistically proven - is that right, because of love to see transparent incidence of break down - or is that the market response and reputation (rightly or wrongly) has become entrenched. The response from JLR is so hit and miss that it doesn’t help. So i hope the car is intrinsically ok- but let’s see. The next Lap episode (coming this week) gives an insight and a taste of whether we get back on the road on good order and the next equipment review (in the coming week) covers the breakdown and repair response in more detail. cheers
@@nextleveloz My comment about statitistics is based on the US JD Powers consumer survey, unfortunately we don't have anything equivalent in Oz. Land Rover is consistent in terms of landing either at the bottom of the list or bottom top 5 on the dependability ranking. I believe JD Powers is the largest consumer survey for vehicles.
About to watch your latest installment which reminded me to respond to your message. Hope all is going well or manageable from your end, I'll soon find out. Cheers
Well done on you and your partners patience - during this dreadful tale of a new LR Defender. Many thanks for sharing, these real world reviews show why some brands and models should be avoided, no matter how nice they look.
Thanks for watching. Keep in mind our channel is about following our Big Lap Gap Year, so it’s not a car or van review channel strictly, but of course some of that becomes unavoidable when you’re sharing a journey like this. We hope the car gets back on the road and we resolve these problems - but of course will share in as balanced and honest a way as we can. But our hope is the Defender can do the job of course. Yes the patience has been a bit stretched lately. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment. cheers
There is no way are these gimmicky funny looking `Leylands` , TA TA`s. JLR who ever makes these cars are never going to be able to compete with the might of the Toyota Land Cruiser so why do folk buy them? Loyalty maybe, the mind boggles!
@@martinmcdonald4207 Good one ! 😂🙄😉. Thanks for the comment. What do you think of the suggestion Toyota are diminishing long term support for the Land Cruiser as they bring out a new Prado of the same length and put an auto and 2.8 in a 79? V8 is gone and the V6 has reported oil consumption issues? I’m not pro or anti Toyota or Land Rover but Toyotas long term commitment to the Land Cruiser has been in question for some time and this move into a more popular consumer car and putting an auto in the more retro off roader / farm car is an interesting move. The 300 will be here for a little while of course but still - a Prado of the same wheel base with a legacy engine . I’m not saying that’s a bad move but says something doesn’t it? the new models proposed are pretty funny looking aren’t they? BTW rightly or wrongly the Defender is built by JLR not by Tata. Tata own JLR but it’s a fully functioning UK based subsidiary. The Defender itself is built at Nitra in Slovakia under similar company arrangements as Toyota has built the Land Cruiser in Japan, China
Venezuela, Indonesia and Brazil. Technically it shouldn’t bake a difference of the same QA is applied. But interested in your thoughts as to why Toyota is bringing out a model that looks a bit funny, is a bit cheaper and will eat into the old Land Cruiser market - noting the unfulfilled back order queue for land cruisers?
Interesting video and I'm sorry to hear of your mechanical troubles. In my experience of owning a few european vehicles, they are beautifully designed and built, and to drive, but can fall short in reliability. Since then I will only buy Japanese and have not had any problems. With the Euros their engineering genius can sometimes be their downfall, in that they are over engineered and there's more to go wrong. The Japanese approach may not be as ground breaking, but that simplicity means reliability, and often lower service costs. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it - just my two cents! Hope you're back on the road soon.
Thanks for that. I’m not sure the Japanese approach is as reliable as it once might have been - the Toyota approach to their DPF failure is a case in questions But yes I know what you mean. Sometimes though it requires leadership within an organisation to demand a change in service culture where too many failures simply isn’t good enough. Changing brand alone doesn’t do it!
@@nextleveloz yeah, agreed on the DPF. They're horrible things on any vehicle.
Don't forget, many European brands of vehicles are not actually made in Europe any more.
Mercedes, VW, Audi, Volvo. BMW and others, all have models built outside Europe. One of BMW's most unreliable model is exclusively built in the USA
@@3204clivesinclair The Defender is built at Nitra in Slovakia. I think you are making the point that place of manufacture doesn’t mean a vehicle is or is not reliable? That’s very true. The sales pitch was that Nitra was a new modern and equip wes facility and that might end up true and maybe some of the early issues are just that early model issues. Let’s see . Keep in mind I’m an accidental auto blogger. Our channel was to follow our lap travels and we happen to be doing it with a Defender. But yo be fair my focus has been on the back up support, recovery etc and JLRs approach. it might well be that a Toyota from Thailand or Japan just happened to have a breakdown - it could be that random. But post a Defender break down post and you sure get a lot of interest!!
Its painful when this kind of stuff happens glad it all worked out. Question is why did you keep heading further remote without getting warning checked out?
Thanks for watching and that’s a great question. We had a long discussion with roadside assist when it first occurred. However they wouldn’t couldn’t attend if the warning reset. And indeed it had reset. We were at Minilya south of Exmouth. Keep in mind we have a recurring amber warning issue with the 2wd where us and LR accept it as having reset ( not ideal and we want it resolved but that’s have we manage it) and we move on.
So on this occasion we didn’t have a means to readily diagnose it, the warning had reset, no other issues (like temps or engine lights etc). This is why having a Gap tool with some LR software s probably a good option. So the outcome was to keep driving and after 2 hours it hadn’t recurred. It was a bit later again when it recurred so at that stage the decision point (was where to pull up and knowing it had to be raised in the system and the system wouldn’t likely react until the next morning either). So at that stage the decision was go more remote (Tom Price) or head back to the Nanutarra Road House. We decided the road house was better. When we spoke to roadside assist next morning. again the light / fault had reset. So again the choice was head toward Tom Price or initiate a tow (knowing by that stage the van wouldn’t get towed to a better place to be or with the car) or because it was reset and considered safe to drive head to Exmouth and seek more assistance there. So once the issue recurred we didn’t hear more remote we headed to the nearest town (Exmouth) hoping we could get an i trial look at it there and if necessary intimate recovery from there. So we actually couldn’t get the warning light checked out short of intimating a tow, unless we got to Exmouth. Even at Exmouth they couldn’t identify the fault code as it reset itself but after two incidence the system
initiated the tow. So it’s a great question because we not only were weighing the options but at one stage the RAC suggested heading toward Tom Price because the lights had reset. The over phone diagnosis call (in lieu of attendance) felt that as it was resetting it wasn’t catastrophic but of course they didn’t know what it was. So they felt it was safe to drive either to Tom Price (basic services) or Exmouth. We chose Exmouth as were pretty sure at that stage it would likely need to be recovered for assessment. My central
contention in all this is not the LR recovery policy for the car. That’s actually pretty good in this situation. It’s the fact that when towing the van recovery options don’t match hay needs to happen with the car. 50km for the van but nearest dealer for the dar means that short if
catastrophic and leaving family and van in a very remote location, if you can drive it in some form you will to get to a better location. How that helps - but yes, that decision point was something we reviewed our own decisions. It was a toss up on first incidence but we headed to the coast and bigger town but more remote on the second incidence. And that was the right decision because i wasn’t going to leave Paula and the van 300km from reasonable services without the car. If it was more catastrophic we would likely have still ended up at Exmouth but having to pay the gap between van recovery policy and actual cost - even though the same tow truck was towing the car to a holding yard in Exmouth i the first instance. In a future episode you will see what happened on a future recurrence and the reaction from LR made the best response much easier for us and the service centre.
Unlucky mate, i’ve got a client with a brand-new defender and it’s been back under warranty with electrical gremlins constantly, personally I wouldn’t touch one with a 40 foot pole
Thanks for watching and the comment. Cheers. The question is, is this typical, is it because its a new model, or is it a JLR thing? We don’t get to see the incidence of issues so we can only go on direct experience and JLR do have this reputation they have to work harder to address. I try not to project our issues but rather share what we’ve experienced and people will make their own judgements.
Thank you for the info in your situation, my question is if you had your time again would you purchase a Land Rover?
I have a mate considering buying one and I am saying he shouldn’t.
We’ve stuck with it, because the more fundamental question has to consider what the options were at the time. I’m also careful - as a non brand tribal person to share my experience and others can judge - but not to project my experience as typical. I don;t know what the rate of incidence is. Its not uncommon for the car to have some varied issues, because people contacted me by DMs etc. But I have seen a lot more Patrols and Cruisers and tilt beds than those fan clubs like to admit also. But there are more of them on the road. The success metric for us right now is safe and successful completion of the lap, those issues resolved and seeing the key places we wanted to see. Clearly is been disrupted and these issues aren’t minor - but it will be a matter of time to see. But some of the options weren’t available at the time (like the 300 and even Toyota friends told me not to buy the first production runs). So its very hard. So I’m sorry I’m not a technical car person and this channel is really about our travels and perhaps many we have persisted and hope that proves to be the right decisions, but I can’t make a recommendation to purchase or not to purchase. I can only share and people have to weigh their decisions.
As you may know now, a scan tool is an essential piece of kit.
I think you need a factory one for that, most only do the easy things
We now have the GAPIID that has good software for the Land Rovers including the Defender.
JLR in Australia really do have a terrible attitude to customer support.
Hi. Thanks for watching and we appreciate the comment and indeed as you’ve seen we’ve experienced the worst of it. But I hope i have tried to be fair and a balanced in this review. Yes I do believe at corporate and cultural level JLR (and JLRA) have a lot of work to improve their response and reputation. Over one of our issues our dealership was iffy, then very helpful and no they’ve gone off grid. On the earlier issue CRC was problematic. On this particular issue the Whyatts team at Geraldton have been so good to deal
with. Exemplars across the car industry not just JLR. And the CRC assistance in this particular case was also very good. It’s infuriating when you see examples of how it can be done well and if it was replicated consistently across the system JLR would be well in their way to correcting a perception about service culture. And then… they have a massive miss. Stay tuned because we end up with more examples of the inconsistency at JLR from one extreme to other. But in fairness the service centre, the return of the car and the CRC response in this case was very good and if you own say a toyota (and i refuse to get into silly brand wars) you won’t get your car returned to you where it was picked up or where your van was dropped. You will have to get it back yourself. So it’s one one recovery and repair. LR recovery and return is very good IF they get the parts and repair done quickly. So there are some real lessons in this one for people regardless of brand - to at least check their cover.
Had a similar story at Port Hedland, RRS was out of warranty so used Ultimate care. Ended up spending a lovely 31 days in PH. Trick is to discuss your options amongst your selves and make smart ongoing decisions. It isn't worth getting in more trouble over a car!!!
I agree 💯. Regrettably you do get used to warning lamps in a LR and some can be reset so depending on the nature you can tend to keep going - as we did at the very first. But multiples - you have to drive toward support and safety and keep your passengers secure and comfortable. I’ve just upgraded from Ultimate care to the new revised RV roadside package from RACQ.
Just found your videos and great viewing. My only question is, how complicated are the newer vehicles regarding almost everything in them? Automatic43-wheel drive systems with how many variations? Amongst many other automatics. I really think, if we are going to remote locations, they should be as simple as possible. 4-wheel drive. - on or off.
Thanks John, appreciate you watching and hope you enjoy them as much as we love sharing them. The issue of technology and complexity is the $64 million question isn't it? It's a much debated topic. I've expanded this answer a bit because others might read it and it's a question I keep asking myself often also.
Keeping in mind we wanted a crossover capable car that could do an excellent job in town and remote, a bit of dodgy off road, a lot of towing and comfortable and easy to drive for most of it. So that means auto/ AC, comfort, auto airbags, but good water depth can get in and out of most of the OTT and stable capable towing etc with as few mods beyond factory as possible. We shared why we bought the Defender, but the argument increasingly applies to the top model LCs and the big American trucks as well. We've seen them all bogged, broken down or on tilt beds for different reasons.
In our case we shared a couple of issues - and one in particular required repair that disrupted the trip by a few weeks including a 750km recovery from a remote but not inaccessible location. So of course we get a bit of stick. And that wasn't the really high tech it was a turbo and those turbos are made by one of the couple of major turbo manufacturers supplying most brands. So keep in mind very few cars in this class are going to be naturally aspirated simple engines in the future - it wasn't the high tech that failed it was an electrical fault in a turbo (I suppose that is tech, but its a common part).
But while I'm very attracted to the notion of a simple car I can fix with some fencing wire etc, I'm also old enough to remember a trail of simple cars breaking down along the road during the summer with overheating, we see plenty of even upgraded cars with broken suspension so there is also a bit of nostalgia that blinds some people to the fact older cars, not so long ago weren't that reliable either. Planes, spacecraft, advanced expedition shipping etc increasingly has very advanced technology and the aim is that redundancy along with lighterwight technology hopefully means that many cars are overall more reliable as well. In our case at no stage did the car stop nor was even going into limp mode catastrophic.
Yet I saw I well known overlander/ expedition channel get stuck on a beach because of the mechanical failure of a $90 low range selector rod in a near new cruiser/ troop. It lost low range which is pretty critical off road and hardly tech, but failed it did. Not knocking the troopy - it's a good car in its way (but needs lots of mods) but it puts in some perspective this thorny debate. the reality is with increased regulation and demand, cars are going to get more tech.
So maybe they need more inbuilt redundancy and more capable. My biggest fear is that fewer of us actually really want to do what some of these cars promise to do. Many, many more people drive Defenders and Cruisers in town than heavy duty overland and off road and that means the manufacturers are incentivised to promise big, deliver little and charge lots knowing fully well that the minority will test them. Where does the Defender reach its limits? Towing it can do a few more remoter places than we went but in fairness you don't tow across the Simson or up the Kreb etc.
Not towing and with extra fuel it can go pretty much anywhere others can go with the right mods and if you have the variants that can be manually put into neutral to tow (there's a few that can't apparently).
Hope that seeds a few thoughts. But bottom line is they are going to get more complex, so users need to demand appropriate redundancy in these complex systems. Thanks again, great question and glad you've enjoyed the channel. cheers Dave
Exact same thing happened to my RR evoque. Extremely disappointed, ruined the whole trip.
Oh no. Sorry to hear that. It has certainly disrupted ours but we hope it all gets resolved (but watch for some future episodes). Thanks for watching and the share - sorry to hear it.
Check out RACQ RV roadside assist.
The Milage allowance is far greater.
I updated from Ultimate cover today pending our North QLD trip in two weeks.
Hi thanks for watching and the share. Interesting. I understood RV roadside assist is for mobile RV/ winnebago type vehicles rather than towed caravans - if you only did it online you might check with RACQ. But if you called them, can you share what they said? We spoke to them before our lap and they said Ultimate Care was the plan for towed vans/ cars - but if they allow it for vans (and therefore complementary to the factory roadside assist cover for the car - that would be useful.
@@nextleveloz They took me through a check list with questions of height, weight, length, width, caravan make, model and tow vehicle etc.
Once confirmed and approved for the RV cover I paid a prorata to bring me in line with the next billing cycle.
They confirmed with an email. $495 per year.
Extract from the RACQ product page:
“RACQ RV is our highest level of cover, with roadside assistance for RVs and larger vehicles, as well any other eligible vehicles and devices you drive or caravans and trailers you tow.”
You raise a good point and something I will follow up tomorrow.
I note the eligible vehicle is now nominated as my Zone caravan and the tow vehicle isn’t mentioned.
I will let you know the outcome.
@@Rolling_Zone Thanks for that. That would be interesting, because we asked and indeed when we had this issue and spoke to the contact centre to confirm what was covered - we suddenly got worried that we had ultimate Care rather than RV and a different person said RV was for things like winnebagos. We have a nominated car as Paula's car at home so our house sitting daughter can also be covered if she drives Paula's car, because RACQ covers the driver - rather than the car per se, but this issue of what the best cover is for a van being towed is critical and the higher $ value for towing for RV's as opposed to vans is because they often need a specialised vehicle. Please keep us posted because if the info we were provided isn't right, that would be a great share. 🙏
@@nextleveloz I have read a little more of the limited product descriptions. They do contradict themselves.
I will certainly follow up tomorrow. This is an important issue for us pending our next 7 week trip.
I will share more tomorrow after I speak with a RACQ supervisor. 👍
I guess this could have happened to any of the other brand 4wd's out there doing the big lap towing a caravan, but that doesn't make it any better for you. I hope things improve for the remainder of your trip.
Thanks for watching and the good wishes. There is a bit more to come and then hopefully some light at the end of the tunnel. Not trying to create suspense but trying to keep it sequential and in half reasonable length episodes. One thing for sure is that youtube likes drama more than good news and wonderful scenes !!😉🤞🤞
Kudos to you for your patience. Are you now questioning your decision on vehicle choice? Patrol or LC300 next just for reliability and dealer network?
Thanks. We’ve been persisting and yes to do evaluate. But who says the LC300 is more reliable? It’s an even newer model than the Defender and has several
reported issues also. It wasn’t available at the time we bought but would be great to
know some transparent break down incidence and no make will share that. We’ve spoken to a few Patrol owners on our travels as well and saw a few on tilt beds at Exmouth. But the older technology in the patrol probably is a bit more tested ATM. Bit critically if you do break down- check what each make does. We saw a brand new Ranger come in to Whyatts (who are the tow franchise in Geraldton) and that had a blown engine - brand new, and Ford would recover it (good) but not return to pick up location so those owners had to get their van to Geraldton at their cost. So all that is worth looking into. But I refuse to get into the brand wars - people have to find the combo that works best for them and understand the various limitations.
@@thelonewolf666
If u have had good experience with Nissan, that’s great.
But
Not everyone with a Patrol would have had good experience with their particular vehicle.
Whether it be a Toyota or a different make / model of vehicle, there will be many examples of vehicles having problems, and being unreliable etc.
@@nextleveloz 100%. It's interesting how we all own the 'best' tow rig, this brand, that brand but in reality any new vehicle can be problematic with modern electrics and they more often than not will require a flat bed tow to be repaired and for those who think every workshop has Toyota spares on hand think again, even Toyota workshops don't keep a plethora of spares. Yes, I've broken down at the cape in a Toyota and required a flat bed tow to Cooktown with van trailing behind, very thankful for RACQ ultimate - great service.
@@bakepl I think that’s true and it would be interesting to have some sort of transparent recovery and repair incidence reporting - but I expect no car maker wants that. It’s fair to say we’ve seen all makes on the back of tilt beds so whether the Defender itself is better or worse is a matter of conjecture isn’t it? We aren’t car brand tribal so we are happy to report our experience and others can make up their minds. If somebody has had no issues with their particular car and it suits them - that’s terrific and you won’t hear us getting into it except to say that when somebody is one eyed and argues their brand is more reliable than it would be good to get the facts to back it up. If somebody says they have x brand and never had trouble them that’s their experience and respect it. Your point on where most modern hi tech cars will get towed to and whether the full range of parts is available especially at every dealership is also a point well made. In this case I have no issue whatsoever wit the service from Whyatts at Geraldton, Tbey were excellent to deal with. you experience with RACQ ultimate getting you back to Cooktown is also a useful share. Thanks for watching and the input.
@@thelonewolf666 Thanks for watching.
It’s great you’ve had a good experience with the y62. I’m not convinced about reliance on ULP
as we’ve seen a number of places that don’t have ULP and some y62 owners don’t appear to get as good economy as you’re getting. But it is a tried and tested model and can get GVM upgrades etc. So no issue from me. I did see a few parked up in the holding yard at a tow place - so they aren’t beyond some troubles but they are a simpler technology and maybe that’s a factor.
Can you get a OBD scanner so that you advise what the codes are?
The codes are reset and occur when the fault occurs - and then they do sit in the log. But my understanding is that a generic OBD reader can’t determine the code / fault of its reset only while the warning light is on (or the fault is still apparent) - but one of the more technical people can probably clarify that. I’m looking at options for an OBD reader that can read the defender codes because if a fault occurs and it’s minor you can likely clear it, if it’s more significant like the one we had then while the engine is running and the warning light is on we have a better chance of informing the response. I had contact from a friendly Defender owner and aftermarket product person suggesting it and so it triggered my interest and then more i’ve looked i want to do it but only if it can read the Defender codes specifically. So there has been some suggestions in the comments as well. Sorry if that doesn’t answer the question but a tech person might assist.
All car companies contract their recovery programs to state motoring organisations, who are the only ones with the networks to do the job.
All roadside organisations truck vehicles they can't fix roadside - it's standard practice, even with Toyota's.
RACQ Ultimate is excellent.
Thanks for watching and the share. There is an intermediary company and as you say they use the respective state service organisations. What’s interesting is that the different factory roadside assist packages vary - even if they use the same onground network. I agree they default to the tilt bed - the issue here is what happens if you are towing and noting that in Land Rovers case the tow distance can be considerable. RACQ ultimate is excellent if you need to get all the way home or the recovery point is within 200km or so. The mismatch for those whose factory roadside assist tows their car from remote to long distant dealer comes when you are towing and there is a gap. It’s worth noting that most manufacturers will recover to the preferred dealer and once repairs you have to get the vehicle back to where you were or where you van is. LR will bring the car all the way back to where they picked you up. So in this case 800km to the service centre and 800km back to the pickup point - which is actually a credit ti them. So for all the brand tribal people it’s something JLR do that others don’t - in part to compensate for a sparser dealer network. Thanks for watching and the comment - much appreciated.
sold my Range Rover sport just before the 3 years warranty runs out..
It could be worse. We broke down in a just out of warranty 2011 Disco 4 HSE about 600Km from the nearest help (Norseman or Ceduna). NRMA and RACWA must not trust each other, as despite a tow truck being dispatched from Norseman, it was recalled after an hour or so because cash from NMRA was not yet in RACWA's bank account. This was eventually sorted and about 15 hours after breakdown the truck arrived late at night. The truck could only take 2 passengers and no-one is permitted to travel in the vehicle on the back of a tow truck, so I was left at a roadhouse to fend for myself. The fault could not be diagnosed in Norseman, so another 700Km+ tow to Canning Motors in Perth was required, where a broken crankshaft was found. This is a known manufacturing fault in this engine (SSM72928), Crankshaft/Crankshaft Bearing Failure TDv6 Diesel Engine, so the engine was replaced by JRA. No stock was held in Australia, so $30k later, the car was fixed. There are hundreds of such cases globally, typically around the 100,000 Km mark. There has been no recall, because JRA claims it is not a safety issue. Not very reassuring if it happens in the middle of nowhere. Land Rovers should come with EPIRBs.
Wow. Fancy a turf battle between roadside serve clubs! Its too late now but even in 2011 The Australian Consumer Law had changed - so the warranty period isnt strictly the determining timeframe for a major failure like that - it ultimately comes down to fitness of purpose and whether a product reasonably should last that time. There has been some case law since then - including a major case involving JLR. This fending for self stuff is appalling. As you will see in an episode or 2 when the issue recurs, the Whyatt's team at Geraldton - with approval from JLR - provided the recovery support that I think is necessary for remote areas in the JLR case in particular because their service network is so distant. travelling remotely brings its risks but the respective roadside assist and recovery coverages don't neatly complement each other. In later episodes (we are catching up) we saw people completely stranded and having to call towies themselves and paying eye watering amounts. Or in many cases you see cars abandoned by the road because the cost of recovery exceeds the economic value of the car. Its a must do thing for those touring (along with safety and weights etc) to get across what happens if you break down.
This is the LION V6 same engine in the Ford Everest, Ranger and VDud new ute
My new Defender only lasted 5 weeks before I sold it. Faults from day one and the dealer wasn't helpful in getting it sorted. Also the info given at the time of ordering from the sales team was mostly false. No loans cars were available and the service centre wanted 5-6 weeks before they could take the car in to diagnose faults on a brand new car. A total fail from Land Rover in Australia from my dealer.
Thanks for the comment and watching. That’s not good . When was this - really early in the new Defender release or more recently? . Do you mind sharing what the faults were?
@@nextleveloz June 2023. Suspension faults (air suspension, not coils) Brand new car picked up Friday took it back to the dealer Monday and they wanted 6 weeks to look at it. And the story goes on and on. Basically a hopeless service so sold it.
@@billybob1511 Wow. Not good.
@@billybob1511 You’d have thought they might have checked this before delivery. Was it showing a fault code / warning or just not operating as it should? Six weeks to look at it is a joke and that’s one of the chief criticisms I have that the JLR system accepts that as a standard. The response at Whyatts was so far removed from that, everything was as responsive as they could be and it was either delays getting the car to them or the parts delivery system (in the example to come) that held them up.
@@nextleveloz I highly doubt any pre delivery was done except fuel and washing the car. It was delivered to me with all 5 tyres ABOVE the maximum recommended pressure written on the tyres! A total fail even at delivery time.
Do you use a gap tool to reset errors??
Not currently but yes have been looking at the options. In this case the car reset the error itself on a hard reboot but resetting the error in this case would only get you a little bit further along the road as the error code pointed to an issue that ultimately needed the car to be towed and repaired. But I’m looking at getting a Gap IID tool to at least help trouble shoot- noting I understood the genetic tools aren’t that great for the Defender - RAC tools couldn’t read the code, but there are some that gave more Defender specific software.
Top tip for vloggers. If you insist on giving voice commentary whilst driving, do a short trial recording first. If you can't hear the audio properly, then neither can we !
Thanks. We actually could hear it on the video file and indeed at the break down scene it’s was quieter so I put the speech bubble quotes in to help. But when uploaded that bit was inaudible / but glad I put the speech bubbles in, and the earlier bits got static come in. So we aren’t sure what happened and wonder if because the mic’d piece to camera was there that the UA-cam processing might have tried to balance the sound further. Not sure. But thanks for the tip. We keep working on this not being professional content creators. What’s your VLOG? happy to have a look . cheers
I’ve noticed that both the new discoveries and defenders are having some troubles. Many seem to be down bad build quality. What’s also funny is that they are both produced at the same factory. Nitra Plant, Slovakia. Seems there may some problems with that factory.
I’m not sure the reputation at Solihull was great and I’ve been told Nitra is a much more updated plant??? There is also the fact new models always have shakeout issues especially a step change model. The new 300 series has some reported issues and even my Toyota friends told me not to buy the 300 until the bugs were ironed out - not that it was available at the time anyway. But then again is it a JLR thing? I’m not brand tribal so feel a bit wedged between the LR fan club who tell me mine is an exception (which isn’t true) and the Toyota fan club that tell me Toyotas never break down (which isn’t true). Let’s see what comes of it. As you will see in a future episode the issue related to limp mode becomes clearer and people are open to make those judgements. I’m not a technical car reviewer - I’m a tourer driving our first LR, so came with fresh eyes!! 😂🙄😉
@@nextleveloz yeah I’ve just recently seen much more reported problems with both those cars. One scenario I saw was extremely worrying when it came to build quality ie bolts not being up properly. I’ve not see too much about the Range Rover or the velar produced in Solihull. I live very near to Solihull so know quite a few people who work for jag Land Rover. One in management was saying that they’ve acknowledged the reliability reputation they’ve got and they’re trying to resolve it but it takes time. I am Land Rover fan and I think the defender is the best looking 4x4 on the market at the moment. Once the issues are ironed out, it’ll only get better. The con is the price. They aren’t cheap which you would’ve found out😂
@@garthtomlinson2570Tbeu aren’t cheap . The 300 was more expensive and in my view had a number of less utilitarian aspects to it - despite what the Toyota loyalists might claim, RAMs and Chevy more expensive again. Is Solihull still regarded as Brummie territory or is it only Birmingham ? 😉
Doesn't sound too bad, annoying but you managed to get it back and continue your trip. Could happen with any car.
Stay tuned for the Post Lap wrap. You are right. We took a hit but got back on the road and completed a wonderful Lap. So we got to wrap up with some downs, lots of ups and lots of perspective. Thanks for watching. cheers
I agree with the comments that a scan tool would be a handy investment but hardly something you would expect given it’s age. Even then it could be something as simple as a vacuum leak or high pressure turbo leak or it could be something much more serious. Having a good torch so you can have a good look around even in broad daylight is a good investment. I wouldn’t fret the decision just yet. Toyota couldn’t even build a dpf that worked despite the Europeans having done so for a decade 👍
It’s been stressful but we’ve stuck with it for the time being. There is more to come that demonstrates there was a bit more serious wrong and got discovered under the load of towing. I agree on the dpf and the proof is ultimately in the pudding. Let’s hope that’s sorted and eventually we also get the 2wd issue sorted.
Hi I also drive a Land Rover with a code reader Launch CRP-919X.
But for your trip I would have waited for the INEOS Grenadier without all the computers you need all the basic drive train for reliability.
As for the Land Rover it has over the air software update so JLR😢 should be able to do remote diagnostics and fix the car on the road and or send the corresponding parts to be fitted.
Sorry this would be far too sensible and convenient.
You will find that it will be a small sensor to do with the DPF or adblue where some of the parameters don't match not an actual fault but makes it go into limp mode this could be as simple as the out side temperature sensor going out of range, when back in the workshop it will work fine so the mechanics can't find it so the scan tool will read the problem on the road when it happens.
So even if you can't fix it you can give a report to the mechanic so that he knows what happened at the time the problem occurred.
Hope you get. The issues resolved so that you can enjoy the rest of your trip.
I had great hopes for the Ineos, but their service network is worse in remote areas, its a brand new car model and the reviews of the early delivered cars (low underbody clearance and exposed cabling etc makes me wonder how it might go. It has a lot of microprocessors also doesn't it? I do wonder in these days why telemetry doesnt allow a bit more OTA diagnostics - but in this case the codes apply to a range of potential issues - so while it would have given more clues at triage level, they still would have towed. I can assure you it was an actual fault. The DPF stuff was a symptom not a cause, but the codes related to the turbocharger system - which is why they identified the crimped vacuum harness. But wait there's more as you might have seen at the previews for the coming episodes. But yes, hopefully it can be resolved.
How hard would it be to for the car to show the fault code to the driver?
It’s a good point isn’t it? The codes are logged on the car logos they can be interrogated by the techs. This isn’t unique to LR but of course it is geared to ensuring you go to a dealer and for the manufacturer to govern the response. But with the proliferation. of gap IID tools some basic and some technical people will increasingly be determining their own responses to some fault codes. So it would make sense if the car itself had the equivalent of a gap iid to help the i tial triage. But a car expert might be able to fill in the gap as to whether it is useful or not. Thanks for watching and the comment.
Why did you not start driving directly to the the dealer for service and reset when it went into limp mode?
Thanks for watching. The dealer was 800km away. The warning light reset when we restarted. We rang LR roadside assist when we next got into phone range and because it had reset and they wouldn’t be able to attend ( because the light had reset) they advised to keep driving. When it recurred we did return to a roadhouse spoke to roadside assist again and then after discussion we recovered ourselves 280km to the nearest major town/ services and then roadside attended and LR decided to tow the vehicle to the nearest LR service centre in Geraldton 750km south. I’m not sure where you’re from so don’t know what sense of the local geography you have - but in north western and central Australia the nearest LR service centres are Darwin very top end) and Geraldton ( 400km north of Perth). The warning kept resetting and it wasn’t an engine or temperature light so it was deemed safe to drive for a relatively short period on the first occurrences. It was treated differently on the second recurrence.
Do you have details of the revised vacuum hose? Does LR have a recall on this faulty part? Sounds like a safety issue.
Thanks for watching and the question. No I don’t Im afraid. I wouldn’t assume everybody had that issue but it was interesting that it was a different part number to the part it was manufactured with and they had a few in stock. Mine had a kink in it and the repair team showed me a picture (it was good eyes to pick it I might add). So I have no idea how common the issue is as to whether it warrants a recall. I wouldn’t think it’s a safety issue as such (e.g a faulty brake or something that overheats and catches on fire etc). But I shared that bit as a point of interest.
Sadly all of LR current offerings are packed with tech which is fine if you live in town or breakdown near the dealer.
I owned a Discovery 4 which is a fantastic vehicle till I was in the Kalahari with a burst bladder in the air suspension that put my car into limp mode. It was not a pleasant experience.
Now I drive simple cars that aren't as fast or as nice but they don't have these issues. Finding vehicles that are a blend between tough and a nice place to be on the way to the bush are few and far between
Cars are going to get more tech, especially when the ICE goes the way if the dodo. And that’s fine - but the manufacturers have to change their service model accordingly. That balance between tough, capable, drives me and move place to be is a challenge isn’t it. To be fair Exmouth is a bit better than the Kalahari as a place to break down!! 😉
@@nextleveloz I live in South Africa and travel into Namibia, Caprivi strip, Zambia Botswana, Zimbabwe and Mozambique. Your only choice is a Hilux or an LC of sorts 79 series straight six most reliable if you can live with zero power otherwise the v8 4,5 both are pigs on the road. I recently bought a 200 series but to take it into those places is a pity it's such a nice car.
I will build a D4D Hilux now to travel with with a roof top tent, towing limits you to where you can go here and its more to break. So horses for courses as they say first world things don't work here and vise versa
All sympathies for your breakdown experience. Way to ruin a nice holiday.
Having said that, with a modicum of investigation via the internet, you MUST have realised that you were embarking on a venture with higher than usual risk by chosing a Land Rover. Any product review site or UA-cam search would have shown you the disasters that these vehicles can bring.
I know that not every owner has problems and some will say 'I've had a LR for 5 years and it's been perfect' but if you look for reliability, on average, you can't possibly think you'll get it from a JLR product.
I love the performance of Defenders. I've had half a dozen. As well as 2 Range Rovers and a Disco and a gorgeous 1955 Series I. But I'd never describe them as reliable or built for longevity. They are too complex and the build quality is not there. Fabulous when they are working but you just know they are waiting to fail and make you want to burn it to the ground.
Thanks for watching and the comment. There is that Land Rover owner thing - why do you keep buying them if that’s the case? It does my head in a bit 😂😉. The 1955 would be brilliant! TBH we liked the new Defender and given the work and design we hoped it was going to match the promise and when on song it is o good. But yes - hearing you!! For what its worth the options were also limited at that immediate post Covid period also. Lets a see how it works out 🤞🤞
@@nextleveloz Land Rover owners have a disease! Land Rovers suck you in and one is not enough. It's like playing golf. You can have one fantastic shot for a whole 18 holes, and it sustains you through all the rubbish shots.
They have a lot of character, I think that's the main pull, certainly of the old Defenders.
As I've got older, things like reliability are more important than character, so I've gone down the Toyota route now. Although I thought my Troopy was a bit characterful...
@@spudboy1328 LOL!
I sympathise with you, please sell the vehicle as soon as possible. If you are towing a lot, get one of those American trucks.
Sorry for the delay. If it's of any interest, I've posted a final wrap up. No worries either way. The American trucks wouldn't work for us. The RAM 1500 has worse rear axle capacity than the Defender. The RAM 2500 and equivalents, especially with upgrades, are beasts but too big for where we are at home. thanks again
My hubby is a diesel mechanic and was in the Army for many years.
He was working with American 6 wheel drive recovery vehicles (to name a few). They had a problem which caused them not to engage the front axle. This was related to vacuum solenoids that engaged the front axle drive.
He believes that, there could be an issue with the Engine Management System that manages the Vacuum System. This is from experience and not having computers trying to tell you what's wrong. You needed to diagnose manually.
Thanks for watching and the comment. So yes, in this case they did recover to the service centre for a manual diagnosis which is how they found the kink in the vacuum harness. But as you will see at the end of this video - that’s not the end of the issue. He isn’t too far off the mark as it works out as one of the sensors that deal with that system did have to be replaced but it was a bit more than that again. On this episode hopefully for most people the main take out is to check their recovery policies and of course if you own a Landie or mechanically minded it will be of even more specific interest as well. Thanks again. Stay safe.
Really sorry for you both that this has interrupted your travels, the inconvenience and the sleep sapping frustration. As a previous 2 x owner I’ll refrain from commenting as I’ve found fault with many brands. It’s the way they sort the problems that sticks in memory.
Appreciate the honest share and I hope you still enjoy the time.
@@seandolkens4021 thanks for watching and the comment and sentiment. We appreciate it. And agree 💯other brands have issues. There were some pluses in the response to this issue as well as some things I pointed out that weren't so good. The issues erode confidence in the car as well. We've had some great times even though the issues with the car haven't helped. and more great times to come 🤞. all the best.
Does the Defender even have a 2wd mode or facility/ability to disengage drive from the front? None of the previous generation used to. They had a centre differential with no disconnect facility for the front drive.
That’s the caution for all to see. Its not a manual option. They tried to fix it, unsuccessfully and we are yet to get a resolution. But that’s more a question for a technical expert I’m afraid.
It’s probably just a faulty sensor. Did you check whether it actually had drive to the front wheels?
@@hedydd2 It definitely lost traction on sand at Teewah - which was the most obvious place. JLR tried to adjust the software in the drivetrain modules and the driver assist module (and fried the latter in the bargain - you have to see an earlier review on that bit). I asked then what the design conditions were that necessitated that response and got no answer. It doesn’t happen / hasn’t happened 🤞when in one of the dedicated terrain response modes (ie sand, gravel, wade and when in low range - but occurs even in relatively benign conditions the car should accomodate in comfort mode and by extension auto.
@@nextleveloz
I wonder then whether JLR has been using a clutch type transfer box in their latest models. This is what my new Ford Ranger uses and it has options of full time 4wd high ratio on the road, 2wd, or locked centre 4wd in high and low transfer ratios for use on slippery surfaces. The drive is allocated to each axle through the computer system actuating a clutch pack inside the transfer box as well as a mechanical mechanism, including a planetary differential.
@@hedydd2 I wondered whether the fix was a new transfer case. Let’s see. We can manage it for the time being to prevent further disruptions to the trip 🤞but it will need ti be fixed. LR have gone a bit silent on it, but during our recent issue it was confirmed that the 2wD issue is still known within the system.
What does CRC stand for ?
Thanks for watching. Landrover Customer Relationship Centre (CRC) is the escalation point when a problem goes beyond the dealer. It can be when someone has a concern the dealer isn’t achieving something or where a dealer is trying but the issue is beyond the dealers control and requires effort up the chain . Hope that explains it.
I know of a similar case of a turbine failure on Defender directly after driving through the Sahara sands. Can you describe the cause and consequences of your malfunction more concretely?
It’s been fixed successfully now. We cover it more in an update. But it was an electrical fault in the turbo assembly.
Love landrovers. But reliability is not their strong point. Bought a new one some years back when I’d only done a couple of thousand k and suddenly the low oil pressure light comes on. Turned out the sump plug fell out and the engine dumped all the oil down the Highway. Yes I kid you not. It hadn’t been done up properly on the assembly line. : (
Wow. That’s bad. Thanks for watching and the comment
Be requesting my "dealer delivery" be refunded because they did F/ALL it seems
@@lot6129 the part I left out was we kept driving and seized the motor! At the time I thought ok so the oil level must be low, l’ll check it when we come to a garage. It never occurred to me that it had lost all the freakin’ oil. It was a new car! The dealer agreed and gave us a new one. Happy ending. Except for the leaky sunroof. But that’s another story…
Mate, don't F around - send formal emails to Land Rover Australia direct. Quote the law if you have to. It's unacceptable that the dealer isn't responding.
Been plenty of correspondence. If you see the first review - we did get a better response from the dealer and in time CRC/ JLR after some unpleasant back and forth. So gave credit where credit was due. But the dealer has now gone radio silent except for incessant reminders for services - including suggestions they are overdue - when they aren’t, they were done on the road by another dealer. But even when i ring and email and tell them that they still send the standard follow ups from the email address of the service manager who is no longer there. But yes - JLR well know.
There’s a simple solution. When you buy any Land Rover tick the box for the flatbed truck.
Bwah hah hah, stop. You’re breaking me up! 😂🙄😉 Stay tuned! cheers
I don´t understand how Land Rover has such a poor assistance and costumer support in some countries. Here in Portugal they give a replacement car even when you take it for a service. Land Rover assistance also includes any costs for returning home in case of breakdown, including hotels, flights, etc. all when the car is under warranty. I've had Range Rovers for the past 10 years with no issues at all and over 300,000 kms done.
Buy a good OBD scanner and keep in the car with you, some issues can be solved with just a simple reset and it's always better to have an idea of what is causing the issue.
The road side assistance for the car is pretty good. Keep in mind Australian distances - up north the nearest dealership is thousands of km away. (800km in this particular example). the issue was avaivality of a rental car and the coverage for the accompanying van - apart from the obvious fact a relatively new car broke down. Yes on the scanner noting the Defender software is still being developed.
Because they have got your money, so they have the upper hand
Land Rover /rang rover in the uk is a nightmare and the whole country is only 700 miles long and never more that 40 miles from a dealership and it’s impossible to run a land rover so can’t imagine how bad it is in Australia definitely go Toyota especially in Australia
🤣🤣. What do you drive Rob?
Go Japper or go home, LR not worth the brain damage
Thanks for sharing that sad story,this should spell the end of Landrover in Australia not forgetting the Zero help from Their so called roadside assist and others......Toyota is the only way to go
.
as a point of clarification - road side assistance is delivered by the RAC in WA. They would have said the same thing about any attendance to any brand if they couldn’t diagnose. Ie if the fault code went back out. The failure on the rental car wasnt great in this instance. But Toyotas roadside assist isn’t any better - in fact it’s it’s recovery entitlement in some respects os worse. As I understand it once recovered they won’t tow the repaired car back to you, you have to get to it and of course if your van is somewhere else will they tow it a long distance. So all the brand tribal stuff aside - if you owned a Hilux with the recurring DPF issue you might think differently. So on this one of course it looks bad - we weren’t happy. But check out what happens on the second (related) breakdown and the turnaround and ask yourself would Toyotas response be faster? Would they come in on a wet and windy long weekend to assess the car. Be user that’s what whyatt LR did. And in my book that’s encouraging. just a thought for some perspective.
Was there a reason that Whyatt's didn't investigate the 2wd problem whilst they were working on the car?
Their job was to deal with the immediate recovery and repair from the limp mode break down. Dealers work with JLR to get authorisation for the repairs and work they have to do under warranty. If Whyatts had felt the 2WD issue was related to this incident they certainly would have followed through, because they noted that issue and felt it was unrelated in this instance , but beside noting it to JLR (because it’s in the system records) it wasn’t something they were authorised to deal
with.
I would have pushed JLR to have a look at it. It might just need a software update?
@@jimprovan8866 Hi. It’s not a software update. And when they tried to do a specific change (ie not general software update) they caused a major part to fail and that cost us a six week delay. If the Whyatt guys were in a position to do something for us, they would have. But we are waiting for JLR to indicate how they will resolve the matter once and for all. But one thing we can’t afford while we are on the lap is a protracted parts delay etc. So we have indicated that while we want and need it resolved and we certainly can’t afford for it to go into 2WD at a critical juncture, we need their sense of how they are going to fix it when we return. Trust me, if we believed the Whyatt guys could have been authorised to do something and not create a further delay (ie be done inside the same timeframe as the turbos - we would have.
I'd love to have heard your story David but frankly the sound quality is appalling. You need to buy a microphone mate. Can I suggest the DJI one which has 2 remote mikes and the receiver plugs straight into the camera? Defender is a great bit of kit but if you want something reliable get a Discovery 4.
Thanks for watching and the feedback. Mate we have mics. The second half of this was done with the DJI mics which are great for set pieces to camera and staged filming but not ideal for shooting on the run. We also use media mod mic with wind muff on the go pro - but maybe the settings aren’t ideal. We can’t figure out what in particular happened with the sound on this episoe. it wasn’t ideal
anyway - sometimes the road and wind noise just doesn’t work - and it might be because the software tries to balance two completely different sound qualities 🤷♂️🤷♂️, but while it was ok (not great) the file then didn’t upload very well either. Wondering if the youtube system
tries to improve sound. So we were live before we realised some sections had not rendered very well at all! Thanks for the feedback - we are working on it. Going to an old Disco 4 isn’t necessarily that reliable these days - if you had a great run with yours that’s brilliant. We haven’t given up on the Defender just yet 😂. .
I don't think it matters what modern diesel engined 4x4 you drive. Reliability that we had in the 90's is not possible nowadays with EGR,s, DPF's, Common rail injection. Spares, tools and diagnostic kit would be an essential bit of kit if i was going to be remote. Bloody nice cars though.
Good points. I’ve wondered that as cars all get more complex there is always more to potentially go wrong. The total packages are still better (geez i recall trucks and cars on military convoys breaking down in the heat and remember summer days going to the beach and cars pulled over, over heating etc so there is a lot of false nostalgia out there; but it means fewer things are capable of in field repair. There probably was a period in the late 90s where car technology was good and less encumbered by the regulator my and other requirements etc as you say. So all manufacturers will have to offer good recovery options. Let’s not let JLR off the hook though - given reputations there is a greater imperative for them to back up their cars with a first rate, higher urgency, less tolerance for mistakes approach to recovery and repair. And wouldn’t that be a service to be proud of…?
@@nextleveloz When you think about it, its incredible that there is any help available from dealerships when you're 800 miles away, we are rarely more than 40 miles from a service station in the uk and it takes them similar timescales to recover and fix things. I will keep my water soluble 1995 disco going till the world runs out of welding wire.
"You can cross the dessert in a landy! if you want to get home again , you take a toyota"
@@grahamjesson5464 😂😂In Australia of course this issue of reliability vs where you can get assistance and repair is a factor in the competitive market. Keep in mind you don’t have to be in the central desert to be remote. Major towns like Broome in Western Australia are nearly 3000km from Perth and 2000km from Darwin. So as I cover in the coming review of the second breakdown and repair - the LR recovery coverage for the car remotely is actually very good and better than it’s competitors. And probably has to be. What doesn’t make sense is having that recovery coverage but only 50km for a van if you are towing. In Australia that’s a joke. fix that bit and you go a long way to to giving people confidence that of a breakdown occurs they have you supported. It’s one of the reasons I get stroppy with the cultural laziness and the acceptance of sloppy mistakes. In the second breakdown they get dangerously close to offering a premium and slick and urgent turnaround - keeping in mind it’s a repeat breakdown - but as you might watch several seemingly little things spoil what should actually be a case study in market leading remote recovery and service.
About the 38:00 mark: 2WD in a new Defender? How is that technically possible?
I thought it was a permanent awd with an electrically activated locker at the center diff.
But that would mean 2wd is not even possible.
Did they however put a system like the f-Type, BMW-x-drive or all the "hang on" fwd-awd cars like the Audi A3, Golf etc. have in a Defender? -> Just a clutchpack that opens and closes between front and rear, instead of a diff.
I really don't know how it's possible as it isn't supposed to happen.
and its a yellow caution and no way to do it manually. If only JLR could/would fix it, but otherwise the specifics might be something a more technical person can suggest.
@@nextleveloz Thanks for answering!
Of course it breaks down,it is a Land Rover
Bwahah ha ha! LOL. 😉
@@nextleveloz I am bias...and am 4Runner fan boy :)
@@rostamr4096 Well that explains it 😉
@@nextleveloz 🤣🤣
Great soccer mums car -,I think the first break down I made the comment - good luck - with English vehicles you need to purchase 2 so you always have a spare when the other is in the garage!
Sorry to hear it and a bit of a issue as it slows you up.
Better man than me I would be very annoyed!
I never said we hadn’t been annoyed! But you also have to deal with the issues in front of you. i also try to be as balanced as I can when making public comment. Not so much to avoid offence but rather recognising lots of good people watch and you want to be fair to the issues as well. The car is made in Nitra, designed in UK of course. I remain of the view the concept and capability are inherently very good. But that assumes the company can support it and the culture seeks to reused the incidence of faults. But the test is ultimately in the pudding isn’t it?
@@nextleveloz - yes true, but after owning English ‘engineered’ vehicles, and knowing many in the same boat, have had lots of experience although not of late with their new showrooms.
We are preparing for remote travel and ultimate for roadside gets you and the van to the closest town.. and for really remote tracks, specialised insurance such as Club 4x4.
May the rest of the trip be thoroughly enjoyable without issues!
Oh what a feeling…… ✅
@@tonyf7997 Stay safe. Have a great trip.
Your vehicle cabin commentary is difficult to listen to. Lots of road or wind noise in background.
Thanks for the feedback. We work on it. Sometimes the road surfaces change and sometimes the audio mix doesn’t render as well as we’d like and sometimes we don’t use the car pieces to camera. We try to video in the moment and then work to improve how we do that. But it is a work in progress, noting we don’t want to buy even more expensive camera and and audio kit when we are in and out of the van / car and in the bush etc. If we
we’re professional content creators we
might do that - but in real time we try our best to work around it. Sometimes the audio is fine on the raw video but the mix when it’s uploaded might not help as well. So sometimes us and our kit and occasionally all of the above. But we keep
working on it. We don’t mind the feedback though. Thank you. cheers
I don’t know what’s worst your audio or the Land Rover.
Thanks mate. Working on both.
I tough in Australia you take Land rovers 4wd but if you wanna come back home safe you only take a Land Cruiser 😂😂
😂😂😂🙄🙄. Come on mate - you can do better than that! 😂. That one’s been used by every second Toyota fan boy comment already! 😉. Stay watching because we take the Defender to some remote places towing over 3 tonnes. And we saw a few Toyotas on tilt beds BtW. But since i’m not anti or pro other brands any more than I’m in tribe Land Rover, I hope those people got turned around as quickly as we did. Not fun breaking down whatever you’re driving. cheers
No need to worry about your breakdown and recovery policy if you drive a proper 4x4 Toyota Land Cruiser and not a Chelsea runabout. Basically had this guy chose a Toyota Land Cruiser this story would never had happened!
Toyotas never break down? Geez all those mirages i saw in the holding yard! For what it’s worth - they do and increasingly they are recovered not to the nearest dealer but the dealer in a better position to fix them and they don’t recover the repaired car back to the place of pickup. So if that guy had chosen a Toyota (noting 200 was discontinued, 300 wasn’t available and i might have been able to pay an exorbitant price for an out of warranty 200 or 79 with big KMs - and of course it could have broken down (because they do) but without warranty support - noting Toyotas reputation on warranty isn’t stellar either. So no question they are a popular choice and they suit many people - no dispute from me - but the suggestion a Toyotas wouldn’t have broken down is a bit of a stretch. I don’t mind the joke - all good- but let’s keep it a bit real also.
LR4 here. Dont drive in overdrive!! In your vid with 2wd error, 1500 rpm at 80kmh. Have a look at the thickness in front of the radiator. I bet in order it is trans cooler, air con condenser, intercooler then the radiator. When the viscous fan locks up you need the rpms to pull enough air through all the metal. I drive my 6 speed in 5th or 4th if above 40 deg with towing so enough air gets pulled through the system. I would say in your 8 speed at 80 you probably want 2500-3000 rpm likely 3rd or 4th. 1500 is only 700 over idle. Even though we were covered by factory roadside as soon as i purchased 3.5t caravan i upgraded to top road cover privately. Purchased gap diagnostics tool. I realised the factory cover is designed for non travellers. Toyotas have other trans overheating issues they use lockup kits for. I think yours is a zf trans like mine and does not have the lockup issue but you need the rpms for air flow. Toyotas put the 5cm thick intercooler on top of the engine, this is less efficent but removes the heat load away from the cooling system. I am just about to fit an upgraded intercooler i purchased from the uk to improve airflow by 30% Good luck P
Thanks for watching and the comment. There is a lot in that. I will check out the section where we showed the caution but almost certainly we would have been slowing to stop and reset and take the photo, so the revs would have been down for sure. But let me check it out 👍 The ambient temperatures for the most part have been quite moderate. But yes agree you do want the airflow. What GAP ID tool do you use? and yes private top cover is essential but as I noted it will help get the van 100/ 200kms or home if it’s a trip ended (a good cover no doubt) but there is nothing that helps deal with when a factory roadside tows the car 800kms. Thanks again - a thought provoking comment!
You will know when the rpms are right because the roar of the viscous fan eases as the heat load is removed. I find 2500rpm is a pretty good spot, but I always change down manually to get the rpm up early so the fan can do its job with Hill climbs. My sdv6 revs to 5k I think but I generally sit at 3-4 on hill climbs early. With LR's its a bugger the intercooler is up front all that super heated turbo air being forced through the cooling system. The intercooler hoses are also a point of weakness in any turbo system and often during a belt replacement may leak after refitting, this is not a lr thing my mates patrol had the same leaking issue. The difference is the LR knows what the boost pressure should be and backs off the engine if a leak exists. Where as the patrol just turned to a gutless block of metal and no indicator except the oil trail from the connection where it connects to the intercooler.
I should also add that to e photo/ video os taken as we are decelerating in order to slow, stop and reset and take the photo so the revs in the case of every photo will naturally be down. It more often then not happens early at slower speeds and occasionally at cruise.
@@nextleveloz look early in your vid when everything is happy, I think from the vid I see 1600 -1700rpm. That's probably a bit low if any heat is around. At times i do cruise in 6th 1500 -1600rpm at 110 but that is only on dead flat road and cool conditions. Changing down does not seem to increase the fuel usage either if anything it seems to improve it. It would explain why after everything cools off things go back to being happy. Mine over chrissy on the hay plain 43deg in 5th found power had been decreased and would not pull faster during an overtake with van, dropped back to 4th fan did its job after a min or two and it gave me power back but I did stay in 4th for the rest of that leg. It was obviously limiting the power a bit likely being a trans high temp. But no limp mode. I have had limp mode once after booting it up a long climb then backing off, but never since and I tow 3.5 all over the place. One other thing on long hill climbs I turn the air con off, just to lighten the heat load. Hopefully the new intercooler fixes that.
@@nextleveloz deceleration and the vacuum engine mounts, yes vacuum engine mounts to minimise engine vibration caused issues for a few people. The vacuum issue normally happened after a hill climb then an ease off for the decline, one of the vacuum lines was very close to one of the turbos. A few reported this in the lr4's in the forums. Mine happened the exact same way once but never since.
New Prado announced.......just saying 😂
😂 2.8l only 150kw, uses a MHEV (where have I seen that before? The current model only tows 3t not sure about this one which won’t be released until some time in 2024. Even the specs won’t be released until closer to the release date. So it’s currently a media statement.
Land Rover should have a better support system, especially in remote areas. Not good enough. See any car could break down (Especially the modern diesel engines). Sorry, this happened to you, David.
The recovery and return of the car wasn’t too bad TBH. The support while towing was a problem. and I will have more to say on that. not getting a rental car at first while stranded highlighted a flaw in the model. If you break down in a Ford or Toyota under warranty they will also tow you to their preferred / nearest dealer. But they won’t return the car, you have to get it back to wherever they left your van.
So is it fixed. About to head out and going remote should I worry
I’m sure you will fine. If towing just be aware of the worst case recovery options. Where you heading to? (and by the way i replaced my wheel lock nuts with standard wheel nuts - one less complication and somebody else found they didn’t have their lock nut and they had a flat and couldn’t get the tyre off. They got recovered by Whyatts also so I decided to replace those and avoid any risk of losing a lock nut “key”. But enjoy your trip.
Bugger! Are you sticking with Land Rover?
Thanks for watching and the comment. For the moment yes - and of course we get frustrated and disappointed. We want it to work because when it’s on song the Defender is a joy to drive and tows like a dream. As pointed out - the experience was mixed this time. Of course the breakdown is always bad. But Whyatts at Geraldton we’re terrific and as good as you will get in the whole industry not just LR world. The CRC on this occasion were helpful, prompt and informative. The rental car assistance gain was outright annoying. So call us mad (and we aren’t Landie brand fanboys and girls) but we have stuck with it for a variety of reasons. But it would be hard to accommodate too much more (noting the end of this episode gives a tip that there is another incident to come!!) In time we will all come to know if the other emerging options are better or worse or equal noting that on head to head performance the Defender has blitzed the field. If other new models put their price to be and a te proven to be more reliable (and aim bit site that’s the case yet) then that might be a factor for the market. But right now and through sometimes gritted teeth - and in large part after taking to the team at Whyatts LR in Geraldton, we are sticking with this car.
I would have thought the disgnostic tool could pin point the cause esp if you are having adblue excess consumption.
Thanks for the watch and comment. The adblue consumption ended up being a symptom not a cause. The codes ont eh diagnostic tool at LR identified something elated to the turbo system. So they checked all that and found the vacuum harness was kinked/ crimped. Do the LR tool did identify a general issue but it still took a manual process to identify the specific cause. You might know this better than I did, but codes can cover a multitude of components and potential issues, so they still need to investigate to determine which aspect is triggering the code. A generic code reader doesn’t necessarily deal with specifics and certain issues then get identified along the way and the high quality gapID tools then adjust the software based ont hat learned knowledge. I didn’t know this but had a good chat with the distributor of a GAP IID reader that was recommended to me. In this case it might have helped the early triage but as it worked out resetting the code wouldn’t help deal with it. Turning of the ignition and alarming the Defender provides a reset (like a reboot) buy the core fault in this case ultimately required parts and sensors to be replaced . Stay tuned though because this didn’t prove to be the end of it.
@@nextleveloz appreciate the explanation, love your channel, have enjoyed every episode. 🍻
If I was to ever do this I’d look at light trucks, merc, VW, Iveco American trucks, safety airbags comfort and warranty being the list. None of what toyota do.
Thanks for watching and the comment. There is an assortment of different vehicles out here and people have a ball. We saw problems with a couple of the American trucks - mainly parts availability. They are - when upgraded - highly capable tow vehicles but they are big (too big for our access at home which is why they didn’t make the short list. But increasingly popular options.
@@nextleveloz If you run a tape measure over a RAM and your Defender i dont think its all that much bigger, they can also tow 4500kg, Toyota and Ford have their own in testing for sale here soon as we speak
@@lot6129 They are capable tow trucks when upgraded. The 1500 is 800mm
longer than the Defender ( nearly a metre). The operative issue is not the braked tow capacity (i didn’t need 4 or 4.5 t), I believe the 1500 only has a rear axle capacity of 1800kg, so you need to buy a higher spec RAM and do a GVM upgrade to deal with the impact of the likely tow ball weight for that size van. We have seen some sitting waiting for parts also. But the right version wit the right upgrades is a good towing option for many - but I couldn’t fit one in my home access and the models in similar price range had marginal if better towing capacity without more expensive upgrades. So not an option for me - even if it is an option for many others.
1. I would never buy a LR because of reliability…
2. Taking an LR out of town is a no…no…
3. SWB of a defender 110 is not ideal for towing…it will breakdown.
What do you drive and what if anything do you tow with it ?
No surprise there then 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
You're a hoot. 😜😜🙄🤣
Great video.... It would be great for our ears if you wind up the windows when you record.... The wind nose is not good to listen.... and painful ....Thank you for the video...
Thanks for the tip. The windows are up. We continue to work on the sound issues - but this video didn't render well when uploaded and not quite sure why as the raw video wasn't too bad. I think the noise you heard in the car was the road noise rather than wind. But see above. We will keep working on it/ options. cheers
Did Land Rover tell you what the problem was?
For that break down? yes they did and we do cover it but the codes were turbo related. It was an electrical fault inside the turbo. They replaced the vacuum harness and and the turbo and some 20000km down the track it hasn’t missed a beat. In a review we also cover off how well or not the LR roadside assist and recovery coverage worked. So while it was a bugger at the time the Whyatt LR team at Geraldton were brilliant to deal with, the system worked and we got back on the road reasonably promptly. There were hiccups. The recovery by LR for the car is probably the best of any manufacturers. The van recovery not so much and we make some suggestions on that. The other issue we had before we started - the car going into 2 WD is being resolved now we are home. How that helps. Importantly, while we went into limp mode (twice) the car never actually stopped. It did have to be recovered to get fixed but with some choices and mucking around we kept moving into we were in a better spot to do all
that. We saw many cars that did stop and people got stranded in some very remote places for extended periods. But check out the various reviews on our channel if you want more detail . cheers
@@nextleveloz thanks for that👍