OLD RANGE ROVER or NEW RANGE ROVER OR DEFENDER. Which is better Overlander? VLOG | 4xOverland
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- Опубліковано 4 вер 2022
- I concede that a new Defender could complete the Canning Stock Route that we completed in a really old Range Rover? But at what risk? And for that matter, could a new Range Rover do it also?
Test results from Simon at powerfulukltd UA-cam channel: • We Defend the New DEFE...
Andy Allen said, "As a former LR mechanic, I can certify that the LR4 (and other air ride LR vehicles) will throw fault codes, completely flatten the suspension and become utterly useless if a ride height sensor fails (which is rather common). If a wheel speed sensor fails, you lose ABS, traction control, diff lock (if equipped), terrain response, hill descent, and suspension height settings other than normal (ie: no raised setting) In other words, you were not far off from the truth with your initial statement because all of the electric "nannies" are what make a modern LR product capable. Without these, it's no better than a Honda CRV off-road."
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I have returned to this video as PowerfulUKltd have tested what would happen if the ABS cable were disconnected on the new Defender following seeing this video as I had done. I am pleased to say that PowerfulUK's tests demonstrated that at least in the case of the ABS cable failing, that it would not disable the vehicle and that the suspension would not automatically lower. Furthermore, plugging in a new cable (Or in the case of PowerfulUK's test re-plugging in the existing cable) automatically reset the error messages. This is obviously a very welcome revelation and good to know. I suggest that those interested in this particular aspect to head over to the PowerfulUKltd channel and watch this specific video. I won't post the link in case the UA-cam algorithm think that I am spamming.
But was iii a true test given how the AWD system works?
@@Pandora882 I suggest you watch the video and reach your own conclusions. It is obviously a limited test within the circumstances available to PowerfulUKltd. It does to my mind, at least provide a very good indication.
@@andrewjones-productions I have reached my own conclusion
Andrew, check out a UA-cam channel called powerfulukltd's video called "We Defend the New DEFENDER - What Really Happens When An ABS Sensor Fails !". He tested your hypothesis.
It would be interesting to see if they could take a Ineos Grenadier and the new Defender on a overlanding trip and compare them.
That is a good idea.
The "new" "Defender" cannot even defend it's ruined reputation. If it wasn't for the earth being full of stupid people who buy this crap, they would've ceased to exist eons ago.
I am an owner of a new defender and I have all the accessories just not from the three letter company's, on 18" btw (legal). I invite you Andrew to come with me and at the end if don't say it was the most comfortable ride off road, extremely capable (way more than you think) then I will be surprised. It all comes at a cost, technology, good or bad. Like it or not the new Defender represents the future direction. I thought like you, until I saw the real difference and felt the comfort. Give that traction control a set of good tyres and lower the pressures see where you can go. I also have an old defender (1992) fully diff locked and well the new defender keeps up with it and on mud or sand makes it look like a joke. What a lot of you don't realise yet is the new Defender uses suspension as well as it traction control to provide even more great features off road.
To fix your break down on the side of the track you simply can use an OBDII reader to reset it in most cases. Cost less than $100. I have done about 30,000km off road and so far in the new defender and cant fault it in respect to off road ability or off road touring. Also LR has built a lot of fail safe into the new defender. Next time I go out on a track I will disconnect one wheel sensor and see the result. I suspect it will continue just with warnings although down graded.
The funny thing is most of you making comments have not even got a clue or even driven one. I have done the old coach road and some other tracks that are supposed to be tough. Sorry to disappoint you no failure, just did it without a second thought or problem.
Get back to us in 10 years and tell us how it's going...
Great to hear. There is nothing on UA-cam showing the Defender doing remote off road travel. It would be great to have that as it could answer some of these concerns. In my head I also think of the potential for remote diagnostics and monitoring of a vehicle connecting via Starlink to a specialist mechanic or AI to help the driver manage the vehicle. People like APW are nervous because they see the technology reduces their control. It should enhance it but maybe it’s not quite there yet. His answer of freezing it in the 1970s will not happen but maybe JLR should create enhancements which let him control it better. I’ve got a new L663 on order and fully expect this will be the trajectory.
Please let us know how the sensor removal goes. It will be interesting - not sarcasm, genuine interest.
I spent 3 hours with a new 110 at our off-road site teaching the owner about the off-road systems and how to use them. So not quite ignorant 😃
I tested this today
ua-cam.com/video/TKjj7Fv-94w/v-deo.html
@@GavinEarnshaw Hi Gavin - ua-cam.com/video/TKjj7Fv-94w/v-deo.html
As a Land Rover independent shop, I have stopped working on Anything made after 2004 (D2) simply because of all the electronics. I have plenty of service work and age related repairs to keep me busy that are simple, straight forward and don't require the headaches to diagnose. Which is why I love my 2 RR Classics as well, and for different reasons because I have an older one for its pure simplicity and absolute enjoyment off road and on, and the first year of Air suspension (and it works) for all the glamorous comfort that Air suspension gave the Range Rover, but I wouldn't trust it on the canning stock....
Must not forget Suzuki Jimny. Solid axels. Too small for serious overlanding but man it is fun offroad. Really nice old school vehicle 😀
Yeah, I also liked them, but their heavy petrol consumption and lack of space made me think again. Driving it from Cape Town to Angola would be torture.
Interesting discussion. It's a risk issue. The more tools and spares one carries and the more knowledge that travels with them, the lower the risk. I'm saying that the new Land Rovers require tools and knowhow that is more than what can be considered reasonable to make them practical overlanders for most people, even advanced and experienced overlanders such as myself. Someone I know had a breakdown in their Defender a few months back: Their electrical system shut down completely. The cause: they had opened and closed the doors too much. I kid you not! Every time the door is opened, the computer/s run programs that take a lot of current. So much, that once the electrical system had shut down, they had to bring in a LR mechanic with his laptop to restart it, when even with a jump leads and a battery booster failed to get it to run. Would or should anyone take such a vehicle into the true wilderness? (I don't mean a weekend trip into the woods) I wouldn't even take it if it belonged to someone else.
you should make comparison video with jeep and land rover, and show how jeep makes luxury SUV for the road like cherokee and also rubicon for off road , and land rover could have done the same with defender platform, make defender off road amd other models for road .
And yet, you are wrong
Bull shit. You are such a liar or your friend is. Had this channel been hacked???
The defender tells you when the power is low and tells you to start the vehicle.
You really should get your facts straight.
Your hate for Land Rover has blinded you!
ASPW please do a convoy run on CSR one day with vehicles such as G wagon ; new Defender ; Landcruiser 78 ; Nissan Petrol ; Jeep Wrangler once INEOS Grenadier is released in Australia.
You said Range Rover would come to a stand still if a wheel sensor failed and that the suspension would go low and into limp mode this is all wrong please retract and explain why you have it in for Land Rover see Powerfuluk video
I whole heartedly agree Andrew, that's why I still have my 60 series LC that I've spend some money on to keep it reliable, no electronics apart from the 'two way' anything on that thing can be fixed on the track, not that I've needed to much at all actually, but I do carry spares and tools,I just came back again from FNQ to SA, just keep the thing serviced properly and you're right. Beautifully simple.
While I’d agree with most points if you’re comparing YOUR Range Rover to a Stock L405/L460, I feel like the reality of it is that somebody doing the Canning Stock route wouldn’t be doing it stock. This is where perhaps where your video is not strictly correct. You can fit a variety of 18” aftermarket wheels to Range Rover/ Range Rover sport/discovery 3,4,5/ New Def. My own discovery 4 has 18” wheels and has 33.5” tyres fitted giving it a ground clearance of 13” front to back in off road height and 11” in standard height.
The issue of ABS sensors will affect any vehicle, such as your own issues, but the current LR products will, as you say, lower down the air suspension. To my experience with my D4 it does not stop you driving, but will lower the suspension, which is obviously an issue. Unless like me you’re prepared for such eventualities with an aftermarket suspension controller. With which I can do the following: lift and lower outside LR parameters and without speed related lowering (lift over 30 mph), self level the vehicle for RTT sleeping, ABS fault Bypass, EAS Ecu bypass.
The issue of diagnostics, Take a look at the GAP diagnostics IID tool. It’s a dealer level diagnostics device that fits in the pocket, it’s not just a fault code scanner, you can edit the CCF to enable options that are turned off from factory, see live values, gives specific fault codes, ECU flashes, maintenance routines and soo much more. Again this is something that someone attempting a remote route like this in a modern LR would/should have.
A modified New Defender L663 sat on 37” tyres has just completed the Rubicon trail which is no small feat.
Sure the above items may not be cheap £400 for gap tool and similar for the suspension controller, but the options are there and it’s not quite as dire a situation as it’s made out to be in this video.
You're correct in your assumptions. Andrew has reasonable rationale, but he's not a new Rover guy, nor does he like anything that deviates from the solid axle formula. New LRs are incredibly capable machines; this calls for Patreon donations for an L405 TDV6 on 18"s to come back and try the Canning...
@@mixwellusa if I wasn’t 10,000 miles away I’d do it myself 😅
The New Defender that completed the Rubicon Trail was extremely modified with a price tag over 200k..... Just fitting normal 33 inch tires cost a few thousand as you need the subframe lifted and parts moved.
Check Simons video mate: ua-cam.com/video/TKjj7Fv-94w/v-deo.html
@@4x4nerd80 33’s on a new defender don’t require any subframe lift at all, larger than 33’s will, but realistically how much does the Suspension system on ASPW’s land cruisers or any other “built” overlander/off-roader cost? The price tag of KONG comes in part from it being the V8 petrol which comes at a very steep premium.
I had a 2006 and a 2010 RR for a number of years (consecutively, I also owned a Classic many moons ago). A wheel sensor being disconnected disables ABS and traction control but the car drives fine. If a wheel height sensor would go (happened as well to my 2010) the suspension keeps working but it keeps telling you not to go over 50 kph and it keeps it in standard height (no lowering and no raised height). So I would use a later model RR (L322) or Disco 3/4 for a big overlanding trip (once I have won the lotto to pay for it ;)) but I would also bring my "usual" repair kit, tools as well as a few extra sensors and wiring. The sensors are quite easy to replace. I love Range Rovers and Discos both on and offroad, apart from their cost. It reminds me a little bit of KTM telling Ewan and Charlie that their long way round wasn't possible so they didn't want to sponsor them and they ended up doing it with BMWs and what a trip that was. The BMW R1200GS is, according to a lot of people, not an good choice for a trip like that. They still did it and made it. (Note, I do own a R1200GS (2005)). What I'm trying to say, maybe modern RRs/Discos/Defenders have a few "weak" points for overlanding in Australia / NZ / Africa, that doesn't mean they can't do it. It just means that you have to pack the spares that could cause the issues described and similar far fetched issues. It is called preparing for the worst, hoping for the best :).
Agreed. He needs to get a L322 / D3/4 and go drive the canning in one to finally end less back and forth with IFS complexity and see exactly what happens. I agree, I had an ABS sensor go, it was fine, it didn’t go into limp mode. I reset with my GAP tool and disabled it. Got it home, ordered a new one, fixed quickly. I would confidently take my ‘10 L322 on the canning, and firmly believe it would make it, and not have to be dragged out, or left there. Spares, two height sensors, an ABS sensor and a GAP IID Tool.
@@marktalbot4wd I agree, the GAP IID is tool is perfect for that. Also the 2010 airbags are much better than the early models. The 06 on mine were gone when I got it in 2010, while my 2010 SC airbags were in mint condition 12 years later. In fact my 2010 with 180k on the clock was faultless. It just worked every single day, unlike my Toyotas that all left us stranded at various points.
Powerful UK proved your hypothesis is wrong the new defender can still drive and the air suspension works just fine and after he put it together the faults came off the computer. Hope this helps you give it another chance.
I have learned something here. And so have a lot of people, because it took someone to do a test to find out. My reply. ua-cam.com/video/9nc9FZ06fHg/v-deo.html
@@4xoverland I will try to see if I can disable one of my sensors when we go to Utah next month and see if my defender can do the trail.
I love my 2006 LR3 with rear lock (nearly 200.000 miles) for light off-roading and hunting, It's never left me stranded. But you're correct about everything you say. Keep up the great work.
Thank you for the answer and feedback. It great to know that there people out there that give straight forward answers.
Thanks Andrew for your passion. The simple FACT is.. The better you make a vehicle for off road use, the worse it is for on road use. There is a very well tested and understood recipe for the best off road vehicle ie. solid axles front and rear, front and rear cross axle diff locks, inter axle diff lock, coil springs, body on frame, 16" wheels.. A terrible recipe for a road car, the ultimate recipe for off road. The further away a vehicle moves away from this recipe, the more compromised that vehicle is off road.. its not rocket science, just basic engineering.
Good engineering could make a solid axle a good road vehicle too - the electronics simply becomes a crutch to avoiding the difficult but possible task of actually doing some mechanical R+D then adding the Xmas lights later
@@mikewho9964 not true. Solid axles are fundamentally flawed for on road dynamics. You can’t get around the heavy axle/diff housing, and the poor dynamics that live axles have at speed. The simple fact when only one wheel hits a bump or pothole or anything, the other wheel also moves too is impossible to prevent in a solid axle.
Independent suspension handles corrugations and rough road environments much better than solid, and prevents a lot of vibrations through the car.
I won't quibble with your analysis of the design intent in modern Rovers, but I will say that there are things you can do to prepare for electronic problems. A company called Gap Diagnostic makes what they call an iiD Tool that lets you scan codes, reset faults, and override errors to keep moving. You can also plumb emergency air lines into the air suspension so that, if worse came to worse, you can use an air compressor to air up the suspension and get home.
While true, he still has a point as the vehicle won't have the full traction control features.
A lot of cost and stuffing around when it could just be made so that it is able to continue on
@@glennmoore5880 yeah, sure. But neither his RRC nor his Land Cruiser are stock. They’re both modified for a purpose. Disallowing the same for the hypothetical scenario with a modern Rover is unfair.
I completely agree. Whilst Andrew's fundemental argument holds true, we 'Land Rover enthusiasts' can minimize our risk of 'catastrophic failure' by including a few basic tools and spares. The IID tool (or equivalent) being a must. I've just spent 10 days on Fraser Island with my D4 with 206k km on the clock with faultless service. Watched one 200 Series and one 100 Series leave the island on the back of a flatbed. With my homework done on the most cripling Discovery failures the risk/reward of using it as an overlander is justified for me for the Mercedes S class motoring you get with it from A to B and the extreme capabilites it has demonstrated once you're off the beaten track.
@@themagician7734 I think we need to remember that the Troops didn't have traction control either after losing the wheel speed sensor.
Wrong again Andrew. Been tested and apart from some eml warning lamps they work fine including suspension adaption and drive.
I have learned something here. And so have a lot of people, because it took someone to do a test to find out. My reply. ua-cam.com/video/9nc9FZ06fHg/v-deo.html
This video made me want to subscribe. Your candid honesty is greatly appreciated.
Absolutely agree with everything said, and as a matter of fact just today I was writing an article for my entertainment, explaining everything about vehicle choice ( suspension, engine, transmission and so forth), tires, tire size and pressure, how it affects the vehicle, as well as suspension, what types of suspension there are, how do they work, what lift and characteristics are best, explaining traction control and lockers, and a lot of other topics and information, with really extensive explanation . I find it very interesting, naming it the 4wd booklet. I have taken inspiration from my father, avid motorcycle rider, on and off road, as well as a motoring journalist for some 35 years, and an avid 4wdriver, the tougher the terrain and conditions the better, onboard our SWB 230 GE geländewagen. You where also a huge inspiration for all that, and combined with the experience I have had over the years, a better understanding of 4wdriving, I think I have something good.
Had a similar wheel speed sensor situation in my JL 2019 Wrangler Rubicon. Apart from traction control turning off, it drove fine. No issues with 4WD etc as it has an old school manual transfer case with lever etc. That plus solid axles means they are a lot more reliable (i.e. bush proof) than people give it credit for in my opinion. It has great modern tech, but it does not affect the critical driving aspects - which makes for a great modern off-road vehicle.
modern on the inside. oldschool when it comes to the underbelly. how we like it!
We just got back from Cape York in our JL Rubi. 7000kms of the toughest conditions Australia has to offer. Absolutely rock solid all trip. Completely under rated truck. But I think Australia is starting to come around on wranglers.
IFS does have its benefits, more ground clearance for loose sand dunes and mud is great. But having to replace a CV on a trail is not fun in the slightest.
@@kaloyankatzarov9284 to me it is like this: limiting my choice to solid front axle vehicle is not really a choice. Most of them are uncomfy, pretty slow or have a lot of rust (due to age). Which does not mean you could not built a vehicle with some interior comforts and a modern engine and solid axles. Only Wranglers and the new Ineos is left (70 series are only avilible in very few countries)
@@eyeswideopen7450 solid axles also don’t handle as well either with much worse ride quality. And less ground clearance.
The Jeeps are also rubbish for touring as they have very low payload allowance compared to most off road vehicles. When touring the cape properly, you need to take a fair bit of stuff with you, unless you’re just going blast through it and miss all the good stuff.
Honest, engaging and very interesting. Many thanks!
thanks andrew you just increased the value of my range rover classic
Great content as always.Thanks for sharing
The fundamental difference between new and old vehicles is the design concept of robustness. The old LRs are robust. They can handle multiple faults and are fairly straightforward to diagnose and repair. The new LRs have not been designed to be robust, because the first tenet of robust design is simplicity. Simpler systems are less prone to failure, easier to diagnose and simpler to repair.
When LR added features to the new vehicle they didn't ask the first question of robust design "Should we do this?". They were only interested in "Can we do this?"
Not forgetting that they "must" do to meet current compliance regulations to place a new vechicle on the market. That means they need an advanced electronic control system on the engine to comply with emissions. They need an electronic control unit for the air bags they need to fit. They need an electronic control unit for the ABS... All of these systems are tested to automotive standards, standards higher than you'd have for electronics in your home. I've taken a New Defender off road and it was very impressive, couldn't see anything it couldn't do that an original Defender would, and if anything, I think it was even more capable.
@@johnsim3722 But we've got robustness and reliability sorted for basic systems such as fuel injection, ABS and SRS control systems. These are internally complex but after several decades of design iterations they are very reliable.
And if design is done properly with modularity properly catered for, one can carry critical modules with you when doing the likes of the Canning. You can carry an ESC.
What you can't afford is for a single sensor failure to leave you stranded, without a work-around. And that is where the modern LR fails.
Robust design is about reducing the quantity of complex systems, not about introducing additional watchdog systems. However, there is a lower level below which we cannot go, otherwise we'd be be riding the Canning on a camel.
The important point is that complexity must be there for a VERY GOOD reason and when present must be in the most simple form to satisfy all requirements.
And running a 4wd system electronically from wheel speed sensors without the ability to mechanically override this is nice in a 4wd that never strays far from civilization. But deadly in a vehicle that does.
@@alphaomega5721 Only that a single sensor doesn't leave you stranded. As proven by
powerfulukltd in their video.
@@johnsim3722 You've missed the point.
Excellent points raised and compared! And thats why Ive stuck with my 1997 Discovery 300tdi since 1998! She's a keeper! Other cars have come and gone, but my Disco simplicity to run and fix makes me happy!
I love ti see how the passion of Overlanding come out in your videos. Well done 👍
Jaguar, please take the New Defender to the Canning Stock Route and Silence this theory. Just like you did in Africa,Namibia, this is a pure brand bashing. Consistantly so.
Sadly Andrew is correct. If there are exposed wires for various sensors, and if damaging those wires or sensors stops the vehicle, I wouldn't take the risk. Sure, you may be lucky and complete remote routes without an issue for a while. However, in the remoteness and harshness of Australia would you gamble your vehicle or the lives of you and your family or friends. I know I wouldn't. All the points Andrew makes regarding solid axles vs independent are fact and cannot be argued with. Although in certain specific situations IFS and IRS can offer greater clearance. Its not complicated or rocket science.. The most capable and reliable off road vehicles have sold axles front and rear on coil springs with cross axle and inter axle diff locks and 16" wheels.
But the most important question for Andrew is, would he stop and help me if I was driving my PAJERO and got stuck!!! =)
😂😂😂
no... most important question is would YOU stop and help him, in his old LR and got stuck.... i also own a Pajero (gen 2 2.8) i think the Pajero would win ;)
Expert advise as usual Andrew, makes perfect sense to me
Quite an insightful episode. Thank you.
So, not sure for which models this is true, but I have a Range Rover Evoque, where all the 4x4 is done by electronics as mentioned in the video, but has no adaptative suspension and this is my experience. I once had a wheel speed sensor break down in the middle of a trip, the speedometer stopped working, the stability control and traction control stopped working, but the car did not go into limp mode, and also did not stop. It just kept driving normally. Now, I have no idea how well the 4x4 would work, because I was on the road at the time, and I also don't know how a car with adaptative suspension would work, but in my personal experience, a broken wheel speed sensor was not a catastrophic failure (by the definition of Andrew).
With all of that said, I would ask if you are sure that's the reaction a modern Range Rover would have. Notwithstanding that, all the other points are obviously still valid.
Hi there i would like to say that if you on road you wont be able to feel the diffrent espesially if the road is dry but if you drive in sand or mud you will find that only one wheel rotating because the speed sensor control the electric brake distrebuter which hold the rotating wheel and let the other wheel rotate and it act as electric diff lock or you can say it help to make the four wheel rotate at the same time
The land rover used this technology the first time in discovery2 year 1998 and tow years later landrover removed diff lock from disco2 but remain using lt230 transfare case but remover the diff lock stick, and some origen no diff lock at all,and it was a big mistake because the car capability depends on electric brake distrebuter or brake modulatore and the disco fans call it the three amigo because once it stop working 1) hill decent 2)traction control 3)anti lock brake system will go out of service
Land rover decided to bring the diff lock bake in discovery in 2003 and 2004 and in 2005 the land rover put new systen but because they wasnt sure about it they put it in lr3 and when they found it better and much reliable then before then they decided to put it in range rover in 2006 or 2007 and the same system remain in modern range rover
And one more thing the suspension raise when you put the off road mode in rock croul other than that the driver choose the hight level
Thanks for your reading i know i wrote alot but cant resist talking abiut landrover
I am a Land Rover Discovery 5 owner. I have to agree, especially about the wheels or more specifically, tyre sizes. I cannot understand why Land Rover don't sell a stock version variant that is specifically for overlanding and also useful for agriculture/forestry industries. Reflecting much of what you have said in this video. In order to keep the business buoyant and profitable, I fully understand the need to cater for on-road customers who are by far the largest segment of the market. What I cannot understand is why they don't also cater to overlanding/agriculture/forestry/mountain rescue etc including at least some of the modifications you mentioned they have done for the South African based group. This is after all, the heritage that made Land Rover what it is. Just like an individual, if you forget your roots, you become nothing more than pretentious, false and not very likeable.
I think you'll find that Land Rover themselves had nothing to do with providing the Tech to do a workaround of sensitive systems. Some private company developed that, and Land Rover will do their utmost to keep that tech from reaching the market, as it would mean less $ spent by average customers inside Land Rover Dealer workshops.
Dont delude yourself by thinking there is more money to be made in agriculture/Forestry than in the normal consumer market. Those markets demand simple, robust equipment that workers in the field can repair (remember the right to repair Lawsuits against John Deere?). That used to be, but is sadly not the Land Rover business model any more.
Land Rover products are some of the most expensive in the market. This is done on purpose to create an image of exclusivity. Agricultural vehicles don't bolster that image.
Land Rover is not interested in the hard core overlanders/wheelers. They ride on the allure of that market to produce immensely capable vehicles that are hobbled by the things that the "Chelsea" buyer (who is willing to drop $100k) wants, like large rims, loads of power and Mercedes like interiors.
The modern Land Rover buyer may drive his vehicle on a sandy track down to the beach once in the 40K miles that he owns it, and for that the systems the vehicle has are perfect. If they do fail, he is never more than 2 miles from the closest tar road, so can easily be recovered by a rollback.
In my opinion, the last of the "great" Land Rovers was the LR3. You can fit 17/18" wheels (depending on whether it is Diesel or Petrol). The parts are relatively cheap (you would need to work on it yourself though), and the V8 is a very dependable motor (lots of examples with 300k+ miles on them).
To assuage Andrew's fears about the wheel speed (ABS) sensors - buy two ($40 each) and throw them in the glovebox with the A-pillar clips and brake switch. You would probably never need them, but at least you won't worry about that ending your trip.
While true, you could put the same effort into finding 18" wheels that Andrew put into finding wheels for his RRC and Land Cruiser and have a lot more tire options.
@@rl9810 Exactly. No Toyota buyer takes a vehicle off the showroom floor and never does any modifications to it.
That said, I won't touch any of the Diesels in the Disco 3 or 4 (main bearing failure), and neither will I go anywhere near the 5.0LV8 (Timing Chain tensioner failure) or SC Range Rovers. The new engines in the Defender have to still prove themselves, but with all of the forced induction, I doubt their longevity.
4.4V8 Jag all day long for me. Low stress, big displacement, but thirsty. I gladly pay more at the pump than having the worry of a wrecked engine in the back of my mind.
I too have a brand new Disco 5 and unfortunately, due to the covid shortage I was forced to take a car that came as is with 22inch wheels. Why on earth such wheels are so popular, other than looks, is beyond me. The car is basically useless as an off-roader until I can find a set of 20inch wheels (the smallest diameter that can fit over the vehicles brakes). Try and find a set though. Everyone wants them for the same reason as me. Now they're rarer than rocking horse crap.
100% correct Andrew. The honesty is more important than the image.
I admire Andrew's passion!
Well and truly spoken. Thanks for an honest opinion. Regards from Guyana
I haven't stopped watching the series. I am a Patreon and it's great. Outstanding Andrew !!!!! Glad you had some cash to take us on your adventures. 🙂
Excellent topic Andrew , well said !
You highlight such great points Andrews. It’s the saddest thing about the progression of “overland” 4wd vehicles.
As you were speaking, the whole time I was thinking about Kingsley and the many many expeditions he goes on with all the latest defenders without any issues and how he manages to do it without issues. You should get him on the show to talk about his defenders.
I wonder if Holgate wasn't the unnamed people with modified vehicles that he was referring to? :):)😅
Two of the defenders were his, maybe supplied by JLR and maybe modified but the third was a privately owned one. Would that have been modified? Unlikely.
@@WizzardPrang More than likely. Plus, he's heavily sponsored by LR
Yes it was Kingsley Holgate he was on about, I would love to how it can be modified to an advantage, personal don't think they, were, Andrew does not seem to know or admit there is a coil sprung Defender
I totally agree Andrew. After many years (decades!) of Land Rover ownership, series, Defenders and Discoverys, I waited to see what the new Defender was going to be, then bought a Toyota. The last new Land Rover product I owned was a Discovery 4, very capable but a little fragile for the type of touring I do. I still have an excellent Discovery 1 that I love to use. Realistically all modern four wheel drives can have the occasional problem however I have just completed two months and 17,000km mainly on remote roads in Western Australia and Northern Territory with the Toyota and not a single issue. The other major problem with Land Rover in Australia is the lack of dealerships therefore lack of mechanical expertise and parts if you do have an issue while travelling.
Still like my Disco 2 V8 with 16" wheels and ACE - it's a 2001 model so no diff locks but thanks to that articulation (ACE) it's never got me stuck. Bought new compared against the Prado and Pajero and it was the on-road handling that sold it to me - again thanks to ACE.
Only downside is usual Disco "features" but being a mech/electronics engineer nothing's defeated me yet.
Same here, I find Discovery 2 TD5 a quite simple and very reliable vehicle. I carry a spare ECU and an ACE disablement kit with me, if things go wrong I’ll just lose ABS and traction control. Can live without it, especially with a centre differential lock engagement button. Discovery 2 IMHO is the last of the good ones (not to mention the original Defender until it’s EOL).
The worst thing about the D2 for me, is having no CDL and a woeful TC system in sand. The amount of them that have got stuck in soft/super fine sand is insane. The moment you need the power the TC cuts it out. My D1 just drove out, and ultimately I have had to tow many of them, which was only really possible with a snatch strap. A normal tow rope would have me bogged too, because from stationary I was always right on the edge of being stuck.
@@DonegalOverlanding most D2s have a transfer case with CDL, but without an engagement lever. There’s even a CDL light on the dashboard. I, for example, engage mine with a fancy button!
Yes, I to added a simple 2 inch linear actuator and lock my CDL with the flip of a switch. No dramas. The CDL coupled with a working traction control system and the D2 is amazing. Next up will be selectable lockers front and rear. It will be a weapon.
Love this channel, been watching for a good while. Our family, over the last 50 years, have had every LandRover going, even my converible Rangie. Sadly my Sis in NZ did get a US Navy Jeep after the war, but we don't talk about that episode.. RR Classics realy do rock. I did the Pan-Oz trip with the girlfiend on a Suzuki GSX 550 in 3 weeks. No messing about, kipping in carparks and hoofing along at 150/80 even on the crap roads.. Saw a lot of Over Landers who thought us crazy but we beat them to Darwin by ages.
And all this is quite precisely why I drive 40-50 year old vehicles.
Caveman technology is the answer for me.
(I closely subscribe to T. Roosevelt's theory of adventure vs. Comfort.)
As they say. Just the facts. I believe your hypothesis has been disapproved by powerfuluk. I know you are a man of your word. Look forward to a retraction. Thanks
I have learned something here. And so have a lot of people, because it took someone to do a test to find out. My reply. ua-cam.com/video/9nc9FZ06fHg/v-deo.html
Met a Range Rover owner in Birdsville a few years ago, their air suspension line broke at the airbag on Big Red, vehicle was in low power limp mode, 7 days later the part was still coming from UK and SA Landrover advised them to flatbed tow it to Adelaide. On the other hand a good friend owned a 2 door RR 45+ years ago and somehow he shoehorned 750x16 Jeep Service (the first of the very nobbly tyres) tyres onto it, the vehicle was unstoppable in the Vic High Country back when there were no maps and tracks were unknown entities and freekin rough, my Series2 LR needed its bar tread tyres and sometimes wheel chains to crawl out.
thank you for being bluntly,brutally honest,l will have a soft spot for land rover but yes i agree 100%!
Outstanding ability to talk about the main thing without exaggeration! I also drive troopy, I fully agree with you.! respect and greetings from Ukraine!
Hey. Good luck to you and yours in Ukraine.
If you ever get a chance drive a old '70's Jeep Cherokee Wide Trac with a good working Quadra Trac, I think you would be surprised at it's capability. The Wagoneers are pretty good too, but the wide trac really brought out the platforms performance. Nearly flat, long leaf springs really let those axles flex. Really deep wheel wells to accommodate full wheel stuffs. Just wonderful. See you on the trails! George.
Andrew whilst I have always respected your honest and unbiased view of all the products and vehicles you test on your channel, I think your fall out you documented with LR has made your views in this case to be somewhat less unbiased in this case. You will by now have seen Powerful UK’s post today were he tests out your theory on his own Defender P300 and proves your theory to not be correct I am afraid and look forward to your promised reply. I do respectively take issue that a current LR product would be unlikely to complete the Canning Stock route, without being modified I agree with you but neither would a completely std Troopy or for that matter any other make or model of vehicle. You have let us not forget well documented your extensive modifications you have made to both your Troopy and classic Range Rover. I am sure like me a significant number of your subscribers who avidly look forward to watch your excellent Overland content drive current LR vehicles. Please do not alienate this portion of your audience because of any fall outs you may have had in the past with LR as this is how your comments and challenge came across in your blog. I hope you take these comments respectively as intended and not just an out and out dig at you personally. Paul from the UK.
We had a DISCO Series 2 and loved it.
absolutely love this channel - theres nothing like an experienced, well articulated neutral opinion
I drive a discovery 1 based on a Range Rover classic and have to say I love it, yeah it’s not fast or amazing on the road but off road it just purrs along and barely struggles
I love this man’s passion and honesty
A friend of mine did the London to Sydney marathon in a series 1 Range Rover, with very little trouble. The team used this as they anticipated rain in the Australian outback and the RR would have been an advantage. It didn´t rain so Andrew Cowan got home first.
So true. I wish they made a modern classic model for us offroaders. Simplicity is bliss off roading.
Spot on Andrew. You don’t even need to go ultra remote like the Canning. Go anywhere remote in Australia and this sort of fragility is just a show stopper.
Nice review, just in time. I was thinking about a 4Runner or a LR Defender, and this video just refreshed me some facts.
Interesting APSW, I have put this out to a friend at JLR (who does have extensive real world/Camel trophy experience), but in my albeit limited experience, you can rig systems to keep you moving in most cases. And whilst I would agree you do really need to have a good/robust software diagnostics tools with you (plenty of the exist in the LR world) so that you can enable/disable stuff. However, to your actual point on JLR then yes JLR is after a different market segments now and is happy for other to fill this void. The worst case is as you stated, you would have to skull drag the vehicle out if say total air-suspension failure (this has happened at Eastnor on vehicles like L322). And yes, I appreciate that Eastnor is not Canning Stock route, or the Kimberley, or the mud flats. I suppose the ultimate validation would be could the current Rangie do the Darien Gap like velar did (something you and I both feel similarly about), and I suspect that the answer would be probably just about, but it would be far more costly in repairs and spares and would take longer because of the complexity and time needed to keep the newer Rangie operationally mobile - but this is not ‘apples to apples’, as you rightly pointed out the Rangie is far more SUV than 4x4, and why try and take sales from Defender? 🙂
As the owner of a 2008 L322 I fully 100% agree with you. It's just too complex. I won't get another one.
Great explanation !!!
Andrew I’m a big fan of your work and I know where you’re coming from, but I don’t quite understand why you went out on such a limb here with so many guesses about what the Range Rover / Defender would do… Almost everything you said in the middle of this video has now been proven wrong. Looking forward to the retraction.
PS re: the new Defender ‘needing traction control’ - mine has the locking rear diff and BFG ATs and it’s simply unstoppable - rarely spin a wheel and so almost never use the TC
The man has 40 years experience off roading where roads and people don't exist. I'll take his word.
@@myrongaines5542 I’m a big fan and he knows a lot, but he (as he admits) doesn’t know much about the new defender / hasn’t driven one off road… He turned out to be dead wrong in this video (hence the follow up)
@@Davidrobertwhittaker dead wrong about what? The range rover off road in the vast land? He's brought up valid points. No way the modern range rover can wing it the same way a vehicle with solid axles and basic tech.
@@myrongaines5542 his presumption that small electrical issues on a modern LR problem would be “catastrophic”… Don’t forget his troopy has an ECUs, ABS, immobiliser, etc too… His presupposition was that the LR system would somehow handle itself differently, while Toyota would be fine, and he was wrong & admitted that. Yes all modern cars are getting complicated; I’d definitely take a code reader and probably spare air suspension parts with me on any major trip; but in the stories I’ve seen so far it’s always tyres/wheels/fuel/filters/accident damage that puts an end to a trip
11 years ago I was out driving a 200 series off road and that stick issue you had happened,happened to me the repair bill was a whooping $5000 the thought of why put such a important part in such a vulnerable place lead me to never own a Toyota!
And I’ve actually had to drive a LandRover Discovery 3 out of the bush with no active air suspension,it’s definitely possible!
All your points are valid and this is what consumers are faced with in today’s market!
Horses for different courses and research and preferences are all out there to hopefully perfect that vehicle to keep driving whatever obstacles life may arise!
Life’s good!
It's not something I pay a lot of attention to but I'm hearing a LOT of stories about various efficient, modern, small-capacity engines having a short lifespan.
I notice that the BHP of these modern vehicles has increased massively over the last 10 years.
Back in the 1990s (which isn't that long ago) it seems like 130-odd BHP was considered "sufficient" for a Land Rover (either a diesel or a V8) whereas now they're wringing 300hp out of similar sized engines.
Not surprising to hear that they're barely lasting 100k miles and NOT the sort of engine that's likely to be able to trundle around Africa or Oz for 40 years.
130 HP is Still suffiecent. But nowadays most of the Land Rover Drivers want to be pressed into their seats like in a sports car. I call that BS. And yes they are less durable how could it be otherwise. By the way: looked at a 2022 Ford Ranger. It comes with 140 Hp put of a 4Zlylinder Diesel. So not much more than a 4WD from the 90s....
I'm a vehicle technician myself and can tell you all these little 3 cylinder cars with turbo and GDI won't last. Neither those "ecoboost" crap. I drive an older (2001) Nissan Sunny with no turbo or GDI, and this thing runs literally forever ☺
The big issue is more so that they're increasing the power output and torque without bothering to reinforce the internals. Still running basically the same cast crank, con rods and pistons with higher tension on the components, cause it's cheap of course.
Only turbodiesels and a handful of petrol engine manufacturers use tougher forged steel components to actually compensate for more sauce. So no wonder they're dying quickly, those engines are built like lightweights but beaten like a heavyweight.
@@kaloyankatzarov9284 in the past engines were built with a lot of "guesswork" so everything was a bit thicker. Today computer simulation can tell you exactly when stuff will break...
@@eyeswideopen7450 Which today is as near as possible after the warranty expires!
Quite happy with my 200TDI D1 3 door. No ABS, no traction control, no three amigos no messing about.
I'm sure people think I'm being a "fanboy" when I say this (and not least because I own one) but I sincerely believe the Disco 2 was the pinnacle of LR design.
The last solid-axle vehicles LR built were the Defender, the P38 Range Rover and the Disco 2. Anything after that, with Independant suspension, can be dismissed.
Say what you like about the ability of the Defender - any version of the classic Defender - but it is, I'm afraid, a crap vehicle to drive. It's like sitting in a shed on wheels.
The P38 Range Rover was, regardless of it's capable underpinnings, mired in unreliable techno-junk.
The Disco 2 has all best bits of a Defender, it has only a small amount of techno-junk which can be removed if required and it's a much nicer vehicle to sit in - better than an equivalent Land Cruiser IMO.
If I won the lottery tomorrow, I wouldn't buy a new Defender, or a Grenadier.
I'd simply use (some of) the cash to tidy up and upgrade my Disco 2.
Gave U a solid thumbs up for this video. Since I can click only once, here are some extras 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 Thanks for sharing 👍🏼
That happened to me in the Simpson Desert. My Landrover had the wires on a wheel sensor destroyed and all the lights on the dash came on, lost all traction programs, safety programs, cruise control etc. The car didn't stop or even go into limp mode but was somewhat restricted in capability. I drove out of the desert and the 2500 kms back to Sydney with the problem because there were no close workshops. I figured if I had to drive the almost 1000 kms to Adelaide I may as well drive to Sydney and be at home for the repair. The repair didn't cost much which surprised me. The main problem with such a situation is the unknown factor, you don't know how much capability that you have lost, everything appears to be a catastrophe even when it may not be one because of all the warning lights. It's very disconcerting that a serious point of failure is pretty exposed in a place that is very vulnerable to damage. At least with a mechanical 4wd system, you can be assured you have 4wd. The electronic 4wd systems can be a bit hit and miss when any problem occurs. This applies to other bullshit systems like hill descent control in an Amarok with no low range, I mean to say you can't beat low range first gear for crawling down a hill, and you can't beat lockers over brake traction control. Electronically emulating mechanical features is a sure point of failure in my opinion. I have the first hand experience of that.
They are all show and NO GO. Happy Trails
Just disconnected my wheel speed sensor in my 2020 Defender and she drove fine. The suspension worked there was power to the wheel . I lost traction control and stability control. Reconnected the sensor and the alarms cleared.
Here is a thought before you state something as FACT test it.....
I can’t believe he’s even said this… as much as I hate the way Land Rover have gone with the new vehicles they produce…why would they make a vehicle which stops working when a simple abs TC fault happens!
Nearly 50k have watched this video and it looks like he’s wrong…. I just watched Simon from Powerful UK on UA-cam and he’s done a great video on this which again…proves him wrong.
I have learned something here. And so have a lot of people, because it took someone to do a test to find out. My reply. ua-cam.com/video/9nc9FZ06fHg/v-deo.html
@@4xoverland I just watched your response, the issue I have is that you did NOT pose a question you stated as FACT the New Defender would be useless if the speed sensor was damaged. Had you just simply asked any one of the hundreds of new Defender owners in Australia to test it (you could have even made a video) you would have not come off as a anti JLR Toyota fanboy. If you want to test things you should setup a trip with mixed new vehicles (MIts, Toyota, Landrover, Patrol)
I've watched your channel for several years now.
Your passion for 4x4's with solid axles is.... very strong!
And , yes - well explained and said.
There's a channel called Urban on Utube.
They're based in England, and modify G wagons, Range Rovers all for... looks !
For celebrities and footballers , they cost fortunes for as you say , Chelsea tractors.
Stay passionate 👍
Absolutely yes on everything. My friend just left is Discovery 4 in the driveway to buy a Jeep Gladiator. He not a rock crawler but a tourer and I think it a good move. I have a JKU and not a pickup fan but for him, it make sense. Anyhow, 110% with you on modern vehicle.
I feel you Andrew! :)
Hi. Andrew. Very deep documentary. Well. I live in Mozambique and own a Discovery 2 for 6 years and a daily drive. No problems at all ever since. Being a V8 petrol engine fuel, consumption is the issue. The ABS sensor doesn't affect the suspension at all. Pretty happy with it and not planning to sell it soon
Hi Andrew,
First, many thanks for all your videos. So, I own a D4 (mainly after watching your baboon's pass and long term test videos). This sumer I had the very same issue : left front wheel ABS sensor wire broke after being rubbed for months by the rim. At the momment it broke, my dashboard became a christmass tree, the computer enumarated the issues one after the other : ABS failure, ESP failure, EPB failure, EBA (Emergency brake assist) failure, suspension in access height (but only the front axle, why ?) but no limp mode and then the english touch : "drive carrefuly". So all your hypothesis are true. Fortunately, I was on a motorway coming back home. The actual issue in France (where I live) is to get it repaired. I have a wonderful dealership here (they have the LR spirit). He did is best to get the spare part and an available technician in end of july and this was only possible one week later.
About the hardened D4 for the NGO, I read in the workshop manual or in forum that the armored version of the D4 has special software that never goes into limp mode. I suppose that this is the very same software JLR put in the NGO's D4.
Old vs New : don't forget that the new vehicules need to be compliant with the current laws.
Best regards,
Eric.
PS: do you keep your Alps overlanding project ?
Man, get yourself an IID Tool and learn some basic mechanics and electronics. Flipping a sensor is like the easiest job you can do apart from changing a wheel
Hi Andrew. Greetings from deepest, darkest Norfolk. A far cry from Western Australia…
Once again, you’ve hit the nail on the head. Two more reasons why ‘modern’ Land Rovers aren’t that great off road: (i) they’re too wide; (ii) they’re too bloody expensive! That said, I do love Land Rovers. And I’m lucky enough to own two. My 2015 Discovery 4 is, by a large margin, the most comfortable and capable vehicle I’ve ever owned (or even driven) for a long road trip in any weather conditions. But if I had to make a journey and I knew my life depended on completing it, I’d choose my 1994 Defender without a moment’s thought. Might take some tools and spares, though!
The new defender has a coiled spring option that in some way satisfies the needs of hard core overland touring. I know a guy who successfully crossed the Canning stock route with his Diso 4 without catastrophic failure.
Coil spring option... Yes. Only on the 90 I believe? Who needs coils on a swb anyway?
Cheers
@@Land_Cruiser_40 they are now a standard fit upto at least hse 110. (in the UK) AIR is now an option. May be standard on the X dynamic and Higher. But there is an option the put on coils. Andrews wheel censors argument is probably still valid re traction control and limp mode but that's above my understanding.
I wish he’d just shut up about this, go get a D3/4 or L322, kit it out, stick 18”s on it, get a Gap tool, they’d give him one just in case, and go prove his point. Until then, this is his POV. Didn’t he take a D4 over the toughest road in Botswana and came out gushing about it?
@@markrigby9588 You can reset everything with OBD2 Gap tool. Sure, you need to plug the thing in, but you can override almost everything and they won’t go into limp mode. I have a later model l322. It’s got centre and rear lockers. Any faults have been reset, yes, it’ a pain, but takes few minutes, a diagnosis tool, reset, on you go.
Man, I love your channel - I'm an American (please no hate, we're not all idiots) up in New England (Northeast USA) - I appreciate your deference to Jeep - We don't get alot of 'out of town' cars up here, but as an overlander, I have the highest respect for RR guys - I'm a Jeep Cherokee guy - I would have loved to see a Jeep with your classic RR over the Canning Route - Much Love From The States!
Well said
Sharing my observation - We were going round Australia and actually on that trip met you Andrew in WA by one of the camping areas by the lake, when you were on your way east. Our Disco 4 height sensor plug came lose and constantly gave unexpected signals to the ECU especially on any deep river crossings as water would get in. It was usually a matter of letting it dry out and we would give it a clean and off we go, no resets. Granted, although in my case not the wheel speed sensor however it demonstrates it doesn't always need an ECU reset to get going again. it certainly didn't drop to the lowered mode, it just stayed in a 'default' height but the suspension wouldn't go into offroad height either until the signal was restored. Bu no resets required. The LR's electronics are annoying but I don't think they are that bad but would I take the D4 through the Canning Stock Route, no way. Jeep, yes.
i would actually say this though. On my way out through to Mitchell Falls on that same trip, the number of broken down trucks, were usually Toyotas. Nissans Patrols etc all good. I'm not going to make excuses why but I just don't think they are as tough as everyone makes out to be. We were 3 LR's, 2 Defenders amongst us, and we drove through fires, water etc. the only issue was my said height sensor on the water crossings.
2005 4.2 1HZ, no ecu , no ABS, king of remote africa , love her simplicity to bits.
I hope Land Rover listens.......
Nope. Andrew and many others predicted that this is the course that LR would take. They pleaded that they not take it by foreseeing all of these issues, and they did it anyway. They couldn't even have just one model that wasn't a basic, true off roader. Now we are at the point where Andrew and the others will prove themselves correct and LR will be a part of history in actual off roading. Maybe they will fire the pompous twit that made the decisions on the new Defender design, and go back to the basics, but I doubt it. More money in Chelsea tractors, apparently.
I followed a New Discovery down Black Bear Pass in Colorado, it did amazingly well, only went through 2 sliced tires because all you could fit was low profile tires on it lol.
I having had 109 and 88 landys , 110s and disco 1s , 1st gen Range Rovers and had fortunately for a very short time , a P38 , after I was helped out of my last defender , ended up with a rather ropey 80 series Land Cruiser , with in excess of 1600000 km , correct a million miles of hard use and even though I maintained it well , it was a losing battle to keep it going . I ditched it and bought a L322 (your brave I can hear you saying) 3.6tdv8 . Its very nice onroad and where I have taken it offroad , it has not let me down because I dont trust it and try not to do too much serious stuff with it , my next car is definately going to be a brand new Land Cruiser 79 d/c 1hz 4.2 diesel , no computers and very few sensors . I have already looked at the idea of a L460 , I would not trust it , it like all other LR products will have been made in a haunted house !
I don't care what anyone thinks, but, you have to agree that Andrew has it nailed here and that, right there, is why I drive a 23-year-old 4WD
I cant speak for the 4WD aspect of having no wheel speed sensors (would be cool to see what happens in the case of JLR's amazing traction control) but if you manage to do a field repair of the ABS sensor or DIY at home, regardless of if its a Lamborghini, Range Rover or Toyota Yaris you would not need to have it reset at the dealer to resume function, either the system does a self diagnosis when you power the vehicle, or it does a recalibration after a few rotations of the wheels, at the most extreme case you may need to turn the steering wheel lock to lock to recalibrate the steering wheel sensor to have ABS and ESC return to normal.
for some manufacturers there is a published procedure, VW cars for instance require you drive forward 20m, stop and turn the steering lock to lock once or twice. it also depends on the type of error, a missing wheel sensor is self evident to the ABS module, a Wheel sensor sending an implausible signal however would probably make the ABS not function, but any workshop or even a simple bush job of crimps and electrical tape can fix a broken wheel speed sensor cable issue.
Landrover adverts I seen is about the defender being the go anywhere vehicle they aren't about a single market. Chances are my stock defender would keep up with a stock troopy off road and then beat it on road. ( this is from my experience of owning mine for almost 2 years).
I've driven the Defender and its very impressive. It is far, far better on road in every way imaginable, equal and better than the Troopy in many off-road environments, not as good when things get really tough and rough because it lacks solid axles, diff locks front and back, high profile tyres that make up the best off roaders. However, and this is my point: The Defender is a non-starter when it comes to expedition use. It's too fragile and too complex, and because of that it's high risk.
I bought and downloaded the whole series, I am still watching on UA-cam though :D Two sources of revenue for you from me!
I will have to get out and unplug my abs sensor on my D3 now... Need to figure out if it will handle it and if I can get the car to drive without it... I've got to say I'm fully behind you on the electronics and the solid axel bit. :) My ranking would be the Range Rover Classic pre EFI and then a clean Defender 110 wagon with only ECU and no TC. That said the 110 with TC would outperform the RRC, so if you bring spares the Defender would maybe be equal or even slightly better. (You could drive obstacles slower and therefor lowering the risk of damage) But my love is for the true first Land Rover which is the the RRC so it wins on that. :)
Love it, great opinions. Hoping Land Rover tel the true regarding there vehicle .
I'm glad we have a strong voice like yours. Like you I just don't understand the route RR/LR has been taking. They don't even male 16 inch rims that would be able to fit so a person could at least put good tires on them. They've gotten away from they're heritage. I know they'll survive but sales have had to take a huge hit.
Is it any wonder why so many 4WD enthusiasts prefer the Nissan Patrol with its solid axils and coils all round. A late model GU Y61 sounds like the most suitable, reasonably priced vehicle, with just the right amount of tech and strength to handle such a trip.
I'm sure owning a Gelandewagen has taught you that wheel travel and articulation aren't so important when you've got locking diffs. As such it stands to reason an IFS/IRS vehicle with lockers would be just fine and have many benefits.
I predict the Mitsubishi will be the only car not having failures or breaking down lol
Thierry Bolloré (LRJ CEO), on the Land Rover website states "We have always been at the avant-garde of technologies and design in luxury vehicles, and we intend to continue… ". This means that building practical utilitarian vehicles for use in rugged environments is not and will not be their focus. NGO's, mining companies, farming and remote outback/bush communities that need practical and reliable vehicles have I guess understood this for a good while now. In 2022 over-landing communities around the world also need to understand this and simply move on to more "fit for purpose" vehicles.
I think they have a while back now they started buying and continue to buy Toyota.
Andrew, i fully agree with you on the potential ‘catastrophic breakdown’ potential of the new Range Rover. There is honestly no way to turn one of those into a reliable overlander, as that would entail removing systems and functions that it simply cannot properly function without. That being said, the same goes for most new luxury SUV’s, like the new LC300, Grand Cherokees, Pajeros and many others.
In my opinion Land Rover lost the plot when they killed off the last proper Range Rover, the P38, and moved away from body-on-frame construction to a unibody design, and traded proper live axle, long radius arm suspension for car-like wishbone thingies with the launch of the L322. Every Land Rover since then, apart from the then aging Defender, was basically prettied up road car. I know many will tell me how capable an LR3 and LR4 is, but they are nowhere near as capable in harsh conditions as a proper body-on-frame Land Rover, whether it be a Classic Rangie, P38, Defender or Disco. Sadly, the new Defender is no different, and despite it’s rough looking exterior, and smart 4wd system, you’d probably be better of overlanding in a 90’s Toyota RAV4 or the likes. How sad..
I'm with you on all your points apart from including the P38 in your list! I think that was the start of the RR demise. I had one of the last 4 door RR classics, and I loved that thing except for it's truly atrocious fuel economy.
@@spudboy1328 i am on my second P38. They are in essence very similar to the classic. They did not have the terrible frame rust issues though, and they had better cabin space, and better on road handling. It is a massively misunderstood vehicle, and a lot of the bad reputation is unjustified. Mine has been fantastic, and it shames modern 4wd’s in rough terrain. We are talking about a 25 year old vehicle here. Yes, the classic is and will forever be the original, but the P38 does not get the appreciation it deserves, it is still a pure Rangie, with a proper Rover V8, unlike the L322 that was basically just a BMW in work boots.
@@namibgtv6 You're probably right! I just had a friend with one, and it was a continual tale of woe. I jumped from the RR Classic to a Full Fat RR L322 with the straight 6 diesel. That was a magnificent piece of kit until it got to 6 or 7 years old, and then things started going wrong, primarily the air suspension/pump.
@@spudboy1328 , i will never deny the P38’s weak areas. The plastic trim pieces in the interior tend to get brittle and crack due to sun exposure, and under neglect electrical issues can get away from you, but if they are properly cared for and maintained, they are very rugged and believe it or not, reliable. Even the air suspension on the P38 is very simple to maintain. To replace an airspring on any of the 4 corners takes around 20 minutes if you’ve done it before, and the entire EAS system is serviceable, with service kits available from many sources globally. The problem is, with P38 values being fairly low, all the good ones were bought cheaply, and run into the ground until something fails due to lack of maintenance. The next stop is a P38 forum, to tell all the other owners how terribly unreliable these vehicles are. I have seen V8 P38’s with 400000km on the odometer running like a new vehicle, when they are cared for. No vehicle on this planet can remain reliable with little to no maintenance, not even a Toyota..
I support you on patreon and bought the show on vimeo. I really enjoyed it.
Nice rant mate . It’s about time a became a Patreon… I’ll do that soon . I lived in Africa , mainly Uganda for a few years and I support some real people and projects there , but I’ll shout you a coffee or so per month. Cheers Sir
100% Andrew, I would go with a new Jeep JL 4DR with the 3.6 V6 and the ZF 8 speed auto they are very well proven here in Canada with over 250/350kms on them not being pulled apart, with good snow tires this past winter my neighbour has a 2021 Rubicon 4DR 35" tires and numerous times i watched him drive through past his bumper uptown his grille without issue or getting stuck in it, it also had a Mopar factory 3 inch lift kit he bought from the dealer parts dept and they installed it at the time of delivery and he gets the factory warranty on it , if he bought it a few months later it would have only had a 1 warranty on parts and labour, he only wished it had a couple more inches of legroom he is 6' 3" , the newer models do not have the electrical gremlins like the Jk series had, Jeeps are like the Volvo 240 series, they have been built long enough and most of the bugs have been worked out of them, sure nothing trouble free, they are a far site better and more reliable than any new JLR product on the market today and parts availability is way better 👍
This is just what I heard. So take it as such.
Apparently a New Defender 90 V8 on a Namib Dune trip, short while back, took a hard knock (bottomed out somehow). No damage to the vehicle. But a sensor somewhere detected an impact, and consequently the ECU somehow locked the gearbox. Land-Rover technicians had to go and recover it at considerable cost.
No comments 😕 Just saying Hello
Love your channel ❤️
Greetings from south africa 🇿🇦 😀
Andrew you forget something esential range rover has lockers center and rear plus the best tc in the world