Thanks a ton Brent for taking the time to demonstrate the various techniques. It seems painfully obvious to me that the lifter manufacturers are missing a real opportunity to sell a pair of lift checking (locked) hyd lifters. No one would have to bother with taking them apart or having another pair of solid lifters to complete the set up. People could feel confident that the pushrod location would match what they are going to run. How hard could it be? If they won't, I am sure someone could figure out how to do it...;-)
Learned some things over the years working on my own engines, but really like how you are taking your time to inspect and check everything on this one. Wish you were building mine!
Its difficult to get cleveland valvetrain perfect. Last night I put a Cleveland head on the mill and the factory rocker arm pedestals were all over the place on angle relative to each ( intake ) , the location of the rocker stud hole was not too bad.
That is a good catch. Many of the stock Ford balancers I have come across have spun inside the elastomer band making the timing marks several degrees off.
I would be interested in your experience with valve train geometry on stock cleveland's, as manufactured by Ford. My experience back in the 70's with both 351C and 400C street motors indicated substantial valve guide wear with relatively low miles on both the 2V and 4V heads. I don't think I was ever able to reuse a set of heads without putting new guides in them.
so is it more important to get , narrow off center sweep, or wider but centered sweep. seems like some contradiction s for auto magazine articles I've read for 40 years.
You can, but a checking spring usually results in inaccurate results because rocker arms have anti-deflection engineered into them. It’s also harder to get a good readable pattern with checking springs.
I couldn't set the geometry using the mid lift method with those rockers at all. Makes me believe that they may not be a dedicated cleveland rocker. The YT rockers are better in that regard imho.
They may not be. Sometimes they interchange the BBF rockers with the Cleveland and even the BBC sometimes. I think I could have nailed it down with the mid-lift, but I was running out of rocker stud on the intake side and running out of pushrod clearance on the exhaust side. I was still getting the amount of lift that I should have been getting when I backed it down, so it will be fine.
@lykinsmotorsports I wish I could show a pic of the results I got when trying to use mid lift. It just wasn't going to happen with that rocker. I ended up doing the same as what you did. Is it perfect? Not at all. I'm wondering how it will affect guide longevity in the long term. Apart from YT I'm not even sure anyone makes a dedicated 1.73 cleveland rocker anymore.
Lykins/Brent. what is the best combo on a 351c to hit 550-600hp/550tq and be streetable? I want to build a 408C, but the clevelands are so new to me. My 351w is easy to use. but I want to keep the car a 351c/408c
Hey Brent always enjoys your vids. Question, when I have measured the net lift before, I have seen reduction in net lift from deflection or frictional losses. Do you see this decrease in net lift? Do you always lengthen push rod to increase lift to specs?
When geometry is off or your pushrod is too weak, you will generally see a loss in lift from what you should have. Lengthening the pushrod, in this case, was just in attempt to correct the geometry.
Hi Brent, I've seen you use the EOIC method to adjust lifter preload on one cylinder many times, but what sequence do you use for progressing through the engine? Cheers, Dave
@@lykinsmotorsports Thanks a friend of mine has a complete H&M 427 side oiler motor and is waiting for the engine builder out of Alexandria NY to get a set. Also having trouble getting cam bearings as you may know they are different than top oiler 427s.
Your willingness to explain what you are doing and why is greatly appreciated. Thank you for showing so much of building process.
Thanks a ton Brent for taking the time to demonstrate the various techniques. It seems painfully obvious to me that the lifter manufacturers are missing a real opportunity to sell a pair of lift checking (locked) hyd lifters. No one would have to bother with taking them apart or having another pair of solid lifters to complete the set up. People could feel confident that the pushrod location would match what they are going to run. How hard could it be? If they won't, I am sure someone could figure out how to do it...;-)
Learned some things over the years working on my own engines, but really like how you are taking your time to inspect and check everything on this one. Wish you were building mine!
Awesome video Brent . i really appreciate all the details you put into your vids. Love that you're an all Ford builder and one of the Best
Its difficult to get cleveland valvetrain perfect. Last night I put a Cleveland head on the mill and the factory rocker arm pedestals were all over the place on angle relative to each ( intake ) , the location of the rocker stud hole was not too bad.
Great stuff Brent
That is a good catch. Many of the stock Ford balancers I have come across have spun inside the elastomer band making the timing marks several degrees off.
Great video Brent always learning on your channel 👍🏼
Great video Brent, keep em coming.
this video was very interesting to me. Nice job.
I would be interested in your experience with valve train geometry on stock cleveland's, as manufactured by Ford. My experience back in the 70's with both 351C and 400C street motors indicated substantial valve guide wear with relatively low miles on both the 2V and 4V heads. I don't think I was ever able to reuse a set of heads without putting new guides in them.
same experience here, on 351c
Those white lines tbh look nice
A master craftsman
So what is more important to be narrow on mid lift or more centered on the valve? Do you think there will be more valve wear?
How about a lifter measuring fixture. All it would have to measure is the difference between any two. I guess ball and cup would have to be the same.
What’s the torque on the crank balancer bolt?
so is it more important to get , narrow off center sweep, or wider but centered sweep.
seems like some contradiction s for auto magazine articles I've read for 40 years.
You have to look at everything, including pushrod clearance, etc., but I put emphasis on a more narrow pattern near the center.
Hi Brent, can you not use light checking springs to ascertain pushrod length on a hydraulic cam?
You can, but a checking spring usually results in inaccurate results because rocker arms have anti-deflection engineered into them. It’s also harder to get a good readable pattern with checking springs.
I couldn't set the geometry using the mid lift method with those rockers at all.
Makes me believe that they may not be a dedicated cleveland rocker. The YT rockers are better in that regard imho.
They may not be. Sometimes they interchange the BBF rockers with the Cleveland and even the BBC sometimes. I think I could have nailed it down with the mid-lift, but I was running out of rocker stud on the intake side and running out of pushrod clearance on the exhaust side. I was still getting the amount of lift that I should have been getting when I backed it down, so it will be fine.
@lykinsmotorsports I wish I could show a pic of the results I got when trying to use mid lift. It just wasn't going to happen with that rocker. I ended up doing the same as what you did.
Is it perfect?
Not at all. I'm wondering how it will affect guide longevity in the long term.
Apart from YT I'm not even sure anyone makes a dedicated 1.73 cleveland rocker anymore.
I don't think the Cleveland I just had built for me had the same attention to detail .
What studs did you use size
Lykins/Brent. what is the best combo on a 351c to hit 550-600hp/550tq and be streetable? I want to build a 408C, but the clevelands are so new to me. My 351w is easy to use. but I want to keep the car a 351c/408c
Hey Brent always enjoys your vids. Question, when I have measured the net lift before, I have seen reduction in net lift from deflection or frictional losses. Do you see this decrease in net lift? Do you always lengthen push rod to increase lift to specs?
When geometry is off or your pushrod is too weak, you will generally see a loss in lift from what you should have. Lengthening the pushrod, in this case, was just in attempt to correct the geometry.
@@lykinsmotorsports thanks Brent. Dyno time 🏁👍👍
Hi Brent, I've seen you use the EOIC method to adjust lifter preload on one cylinder many times, but what sequence do you use for progressing through the engine? Cheers, Dave
I usually start at #1 and just run down the head, then go to the other side.
Can you get FE push rods? I hear there is a huge back log due to supply shortage.
Depends who you go through and what they are, but haven't had any issues lately.
@@lykinsmotorsports
Thanks a friend of mine has a complete H&M 427 side oiler motor and is waiting for the engine builder out of Alexandria NY to get a set. Also having trouble getting cam bearings as you may know they are different than top oiler 427s.
Hello 😊