W.E.B. DuBois vs Booker T. Washington (Round 1)
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- Опубліковано 13 лис 2021
- Part 1 of a series of articles on Black thought and ideology. This article will critique W.E.B. DuBois's framework of Civil Rights through the lens of his rival, Booker T. Washington.
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SOURCES
Horne, Gerald. Black and Brown: African Americans and the Mexican Revolution, 1910-1920. New York University Press, 2005.
Orfield, G., & Lee, C. (2004). Brown at 50: King's dream or Plessy's nightmare? Cambridge, MA: the Civil Rights Project, Harvard University.
Taylor, Quintard.From Timbuktu to Katrina: Readings in African-American History. Boston, Mass: Thomson Wadsworth, 2008. Print.
This is an excellent presentation. The thought and ingenuity that went into condensing this timeframe of 2 monumental figures of African American into an easily digestible and coherent piece of work is outstanding. Kudos to you for this superb piece of work.
The debate of the rivalry between the honorable Booker T Washington and W.E.B DuBois is well known. Both men are towering figures in African American history. While both men had their flaws, I look at them both as equally important historically within african american history. Dr John Henrik Clarke taught us how to analyze history and look at it through the lens of self preservation and Pan Africanism. What I've learned is that both Washington and DuBois were fighting on behalf of AA. Booker T fought for Blacks to have self reliance economically, while DuBois fought for AA politically. Both men had valid points. Economic power and political power go together. You need to have both. As such, I don't view either as more important than the other. One fought for for economic self reliance while the other fought for full political rights. Ultimately they both were fighting to uplift African Americans and improve their lives in America.
Thanks for watching! You stole a bit of my thunder, but yes, I completely agree. The movement has always been at its best when the various philosophical approaches could attack white supremacy from multiple angles. Unfortunately, there were built-in conflicts that mostly prevented them from doing so. It was inevitable that integration and separatism wouldn't mix very well.
@@AfricanElements I agree with you 100% and thank you for taking the time to make this superb presentation. I look forward to the 2nd part and will definitely become a patreon subscriber. We need more palatable content like this for African Americans. After this series is completed, I can't wait for your subsequent spiritual sequel to this culminating in Dr Martin Luther King and Malcolm X.
To this day “The Man farthest down” by Booker T Washington is my favorite book .
I just discovered your channel and am so thankful! For an online college course I'm taking, I'm reading From Slavery to Freedom by Franklin & Higginbotham (2011). It can be challenging to digest the material. Your videos have helped me make sense of what I'm reading and are helping me see different perspectives with a broad vision. I can't wait to watch and learn more!
B.T. Washington > DuBois, as a long term approach. While Dubois traded words philosophically and started programs to assist in the advancement of colored peopled, his efforts bared minor fruit in comparison w/ Washington. I believe their up brinings had a lot to do with their approach. Also, in Washington’s book “Up from Slavery” he hints at the underlying meaning behind his “Atlanta Exposition Speech” and why his approach would be more favorable for blacks, then and now. I wish more people would not accept the current status quo and truly revisit and extend the work of Garvey, Washington, X, and many others and pick up their Batons because the race is not yet over.
Edit:
DuBois coined Washington’s speech the Great/Atlanta Compromise, it is also taught in schools by these names. The speech should be called by the name “The Atlanta Exposition” which is what the author, BT Washington, intended, respectfully.
I definitely agree!
Du Bois was the typical East Coast dude running off at the mouth. He’s one of the first northern negro-Intellectual hustlers.
Agreed. I’m not that big of a fan of Garvey though. X started to get better by the end, unfortunately his life was cut short.
I've just found your channel and found it to be thoroughly engaging. Your short educational videos are well researched pieces of history which are easy to digest and leads me to ask more questions. Bravo sir, bravo indeed (I should have said that in an Africana way and not a European one, but I'm sure we can allow it for now.)
Thanks for watching! Going to be dropping another video next week!
Really enjoy your channel. I love how your not leaning towards any sides and giving fair arguments for each.
Thanks for watching! Yeah, that's always a challenge. My students always ask me what my ideology is and I don't want to tell them because I don't want to poison the well. My goal isn't to tell them which ideology is the best, but rather to understand and make their own assessment as to what limitations they're comfortable living within. ALL of them have limitations.
Currently watching while studying for my APUSH test. Definitely gonna Ace it with this video!!
Anyone else get nervous when he said 'speaking of smashing'
I like this. A lot of info that makes you look up more and more. Thank you for doing this.
Thanks for watching!
Without aiming to take a side at first from the get-go, it seems to me that B. T. Washington's approach was much more coherent than Web Dubois's. Washington's strategy will always bear fruit in the long run, significantly if it enlarges itself enough to welcome and adhere, even at the bare minimum, to Dubois's.
That is, Negroes would have made much more progress in taking the road of separate development with all the arsenal of practical knowledge it comes with. Separate development is great potential for economic empowerment. We only need a minority from fine arts to play the role of sentinels over the vast economic, self-dependent group Washington had in mind. With separate development, you don't beg for integration; the idea self-imposes and is likely to create demand for integration from your adversary.
Booker T. Washington all the wayyyyyy !
This was so informative, awesome
Thank you for watching!
Just found your channel, great stuff, keep it up
Thanks for watching! Follow up coming soon...
Here in 2021 the Washington philosophy needs to be given a sobering second look. When a presidential candidate can openly say "you ain't black if you don't vote for me" which means 'I own you', makes one ponder if Dubois approach which largely won out was too myopic and naive.
Yep! DuBois himself questioned that in a latter part of his life. How do you deal with a limitations, though?
Didn't the Tulsa Massacre and the (still very much alive) cultural thread that produced it prove Washington's approach incapable of large-scale realization, too, though?
It seems too me that both approaches had the same flaw: trying to coexist with a system built on black exploitation.
I don't think there's a solution without a fundamental change to the power structures in our society. I appreciate @revblackoutnetwork's perspective on where we are now.
@@bumpty9830 Well I just know Booker's method is like the Organic Work Movement in Poland when they were ruled by Prussia, Russia and Austria, and even though they faced similar setbacks (and worse), it eventually paid off. Take care and God bless
I respect them both but sometimes I think that W.E.B Dubois sounded like a house 🥷 that just wanted to be accepted by white people. College isn’t for everybody but having a marketable job skill is a lot more practical and self sustaining…Economic independence is the primary goal. W.E.B wasn’t talking about that..he was encouraging black people to rely on the white man institutions and fight their wars for them…
@@bumpty9830
*”Didn’t the Tulsa Massacre and the (still much alive) cultural thread that produced it prove Washington’s approach incapable of…”*
Stop being ridiculous. Booker T was just pointing out what a segment of black folks who were buying property and taking care of their families in the South were already doing. Du Bois’s ideology produce nothing of real substance.
Ignoring the fact that there were black folks who were able to succeed back in that era…is you making an excuse for people not being able to succeed in this era.
Joining This Pan African Conversation from Cameroon Central .. Coddus to Africans in The Americas and the Global Diaspora for strides to restore the dignity of the Black man ..
The Pan African movement in Africa apologize to you people and is calling for you to come and hold hands for us yo build the Africa we want. The continent is large enough to accomodate us all.
Thank You
Much love! Going to be visiting Ghana for the first time this fall. Very excited!
Wow. Both had great points, but I vote for Washington in round one. Thanks for putting this together. Very informative.
great work
Thanks for watching!
Thank you
They came from two different realities, two different areas, thus having two completely different approaches and outlooks on life.
Very true! I wanted to get into that more, but one of those realities was generational. Washington was born a slave whereas Du Bois was born in the generation after emancipation. Washington saw no redemption in the institution of slavery and wanted no acknowledgment of it moving forward. Du Bois saw slavery as the defining thing that made Black people who they are (i.e, _The Souls Of Black Folk_ ).
@@AfricanElements absolutely 🙏🏾
It's hard to declare a "winner" here. Both men had valid points. If I indulge in a moment of fantasy, I can imagine far greater progress if they had worked together to complement each other rather than waste energy fighting. I can well imagine Washington creating a self-sufficient Black American culture that generated and concentrated its own power and wealth, which then could have funded the work of the NAACP, among other things. When it comes to WWI, Du Bois has a point about Germany needing to be stopped, though that became far more serious in WWII.
True. WW2 is such a complex topic. I like to call WW2, WW1 part two. Because I think the allies from WW1 were too tough and restrictive to Germany after the war. As much as I dislike Woodrow Wilson, the 14 points most likely would've created a better outcome and healing. A document like the Treaty of Versailles on the other hand would only create animosities and bring forth the rise of a Hitler.
Both... it doesn't matter how black African American liberation happens it just has to happen and not only for the financial aspects but also the legal as well
Very true! A variety of approaches is a strength.
No winner or loser. They both had something to contribute. Their egos got in the way. Read DuBois' interview in Atlantic Magazine in 1963 while he was in Ghana where he died shortly thereafter. He admitted disagreeing with Washington but said the clash was mainly between their followers. He said there was a greatness about Washington. He also gave the reasons for his disagreement with him. He closed out saying Washington's death saddened him because he felt he, Washington, died knowing whites had betrayed him. Then he said something rather strange which was that there were those who felt when Washington died he, DuBois, also died. It was a very interesting interview. They both made their contributions which are still with us today which are Tuskegee University and the NAACP. One last item. The National Negro Business League today called the National Business league was the creation of BTW.
Yes! Du Bois grew a lot because of Washington. There was a lot he appreciated about him in his later years.
Excellent work. Both men are Titans. I side with Booker T though
Some of the comments about Booker T. Washington in this video are false! George Washington carver and Booker T. Washington were great men!
Can you be more specific in what I said that was false?
This is very interesting. I, as black Americans we are expected to lose blood for this country. It is fair and just that we should share in its spoils of freedom. Washington's ideology would keep blacks marginalized as a permanent underclass.
Booker T. Washington won this round but aren’t you the man that I’m being bias because I agree with his opinion on Black People But W being after being sabotaged by booker T lol he did come back with the NAACP so maybe that round was even 🤔🤷🏿♂️. Great video about to watch round 2 👍🏿
Check this out. I asked my female(She is a African American)friend have you tried the Soul food place,Mary Kitchen. Her is what she said why would I go there I can make that food at home. I'm like you can also fry a burger at home but you go to the white owned McDonald's. She had me 🔥 🥵. Saying that dumb shit
I was looking forward to round 3. Did you ever make it?
It seems to me that both Dubois' and Washington's approaches both required the cooperation of the capitalist system that depends for its survival of the exploitation of an abusable and expendable lower class. It seems to me the problem of systemic racism cannot be solved within the framework of capitalism. So I'm naturally curious to hear your take on the role of anti-capitalist ideas in this context.
I don't think I labeled it as such, but this is actually round three, ua-cam.com/video/DBPXkqkgNyk/v-deo.html and round four, ua-cam.com/video/mSDNTLLyeec/v-deo.html
Thank you, @@AfricanElements!
There is no inherent exploited class. The employee employer relationship is not exploitive.
Is the slave-master relationship exploitative, @@robertortiz-wilson1588?
When I was in college in Texas, my white professors absolutely loved and respected Booker T Washington and MLK. (The white washed version of MLK they don't discuss) Meanwhile, having contempt and disregard for DuBois and Malcolm X. I just can't get on board with Booker T Washington's approach that seems to suggest putting your head down and eventually you'll be acknowledged.
I do however have mixed feelings about desegregation as black Americans seem to have lost ourselves/values in an attempt to integrate. But to have a true separate "black America", we would need to be given at least a territory the equivalent of New Mexico, Arizona, and Colorado. This is difficult when WS don't even want to give us an acre of land. Moreover, imagine if this black America became successful. If we didn't want to be a puppet state, what makes us believe the US wouldn't do what they did to Cuba or Haiti? Remember, the US/Commodore Perry literally forced Japan to open its ports to trade under the military duress of cannons.
WS of today regularly refer reparations or anything to assist black people socialism and welfare. While calling socialism and welfare to poor whites, subsidies. White European nations like Ukraine and Israel can literally get countless billions from the US. But the mere idea of black Americans getting something, suddenly we all must embrace McCarthyism. My biggest disagreement with DuBois is the talented 10th concept as a talented quarter would be more realistic if you consider attrition and structural obstacles. Another great episode. Thank you brother.
I give Booker T Washington round 1 victory over W.E.B. Dubois b cuz Booker T. Washington was concerned about economic independence.
Washington won because he didn't see equal the history shows with the Natives are deal was better WEB DeBoise wanted to be judged on merit in a Race situation
Both sides are good and bad at the same time. We change the law they new laws. We build a community with businesses they burn it down.
It would seem that both approaches fall short when faced with the question of resources. Starting with nothing means resources must be begged borrowed or stolen from the system in power. A separate Black America doesn't seem possible within the boundaries of the North American continent...so where? Expecting the boss to give you a raise for perfect attendance and following all the rules? Dream on. Power and the effective leveraging of that power always seems to be the elusive goal. I'm not sure if respect is even possible without some demonstrable power at its root., How to achieve and sustain power without becoming the oppressor seems to involve a paradigm shift we are not yet capable of imagining. Or rather most of us are capable of imagining such a world and government has nothing to do with it.
You pretty much nailed most of the points I was going to talk about in the next video. The resource problem is only a problem for the integrationists insofar as that the court system is very expensive. Their willingness to form coalitions with whites, partly solves that problem, though.
I’m sorry, but as a Veteran we don’t accept defeat, nor quit, or Leave fallen comrades. I will say though adversity makes the strong, stronger, and the weak, weaker!..Hasn’t us being here for Millions of years, proven we are stronger to some extent naturally compared to our oppressors?..We must also understand the youth are out here watching, and if we do not build the foundation for a more equitable economic future for them.They will spit on us even after we become ancestors. In the Army there’s a saying “The battlefield is no place for a coward, unless they want to be devoured!”.
@@carolinaboii1 nobody's talking about accepting defeat or leaving anybody behind. This series is about assessing the strengths and limitations of a variety of tactics so that the viewer can determine which is the most effective.
@@carolinaboii1 I'm not sure where we are in disagreement, unless you think my comment is about giving up. I will never give up because of a seemingly unsolvable circumstance, I'm simply out of ideas.
A historian with Mohawk hair cut. Interesting.
What can I say? I'm an interesting dude!
Surely I'm insane. That's a computer generated human and ai written and spoken transcript is it not? Anyone?
Let me put it this way. The 9000 series is the most reliable computer ever made. No 9000 computer has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the words, foolproof and incapable of error. ... Dave.
My CPU is a neural net processor; a learning computer. But Skynet pre- sets the switch to read-only when we're sent out alone.
I agree with Booker T's philosophy.
I think the "radical republicans" had good intentions. But I'm of the opinion that large corporations like US Steel, Standard oil, and the railroads benefited more from the 14th amendment than any black person ever did.
👨🏿🦳
Is not because I’m Haitian and bias WEB Dubois shouldn’t ever be in the room imagine if we were living in a society where separate is equal people will sure laughing at you . Hahahahaha
You left out how Dubois co founded the boule
I typically don't include people's subjective opinions as facts in my videos. If that's what you're looking for, you can get that from folks like Dane Calloway.
@@AfricanElements I was wrong he did not co found but he was one of the earliest members.
Are you talking about the NAACP?
@@AfricanElements no Dubois was one of the earliest members of the Boule/Sigma Pi Phi en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigma_Pi_Phi?wprov=sfti1#
Yeah, I get it. I guess that would have been an interesting tidbit.
Honestly, I thought this dude was Mexican or Native. Lol
I don't get it. It's okay to be wrong, but why is it funny that you were wrong? 🤔
@@AfricanElements Sorry it was just a joke, I assumed you probably heard that before. I will say sometimes jokes have a little bit of truth though. So lighten up buttercup it’s all love!