There's a term that fits really well with what you're describing in this video. It's "visual noise". Shapes, patterns, colors, that serve no purpose besides to be obnoxious, and can in some cases make it genuinely harder to see what's going on in a game. There's a certain kind of first impression a game can leave on me when I join a new MMO, get dropped into some town or hub where players gather, and just see a pile of trash sitting next to some storage object or vendor. Armor of every color imaginable. There's some kind of shiny bear or elephant that's twice the player's height in length just standing there, and you genuinely can't figure out why. Something from the middle of the blob of players is spawning particle effects for some reason. And then you're forced to play "where's Waldo" to figure out where the thing you're looking for is, in the middle of this blob of players.
Absolutely, im surprised that many people disagree. Personally, i think i have spend like half of my playtime in WoW making outfits and hunting cool looking stuff. Hell, i remember i learned how to write macro just to show off my Tarecgosa staff
I was really shocked when I got so much pushback against this line of thinking from the Ashes of Creation discord. Pretty much nobody in the Ashes discord agreed with me on this topic.
@@MortemFalbare I think it's partly "thanks" to dichotomy of "free, but don't have a life outside the game because of time-limited quests" and "spend money to have it right now with additional bonus to do quests easier and faster". It goes with every game I played on mobile phone or multiplayer on laptop.
@@HauntLich I personally find, both in terms of MMOs and in terms of single-player games with Cosmetic DLC, that I can usually ignore cosmetic content. Like yeah, I do enjoy it when games give the option to dress up and customize a character, but I don't make a big deal out of getting the "coolest" and gaudiest stuff. I tend to view cosmetics in cash shops and DLC as a means to support a dev/game I enjoy, while maybe getting something cool for doing so. In Pirate101 (which is basically one of the few MMOs I actually play since I like having the option of doing 1 time payments for permanent access to content, as opposed to subscription model) like, I'll make sure my outfits are in the color scheme I like (purple and yellow for my current character), but I won't make a big stink about which *specific* gear I wear, as long as the stats fit my intended build. At the end of the day, I will value mechanics over aesthetics, but I also recognize that my brain works differently from other people. That said, I do still very much enjoy the *role-playing* part of roleplaying games too (MMO or otherwise) and a lot of why I'll play a given game is due to getting interested or invested in the stories and characters. I actively enjoy doing quests in Pirate101 or any other RPG I play as my big example again, because I'm interested in seeing what the story has on offer, whether that be the main quest, random side quests, or companion promotion quests.
@9:23 that's exactly why I don't dislike videos anymore. also in b4 you say "comments do the same thing". I know, I've known for a long while, but they are also the best way to tell other people to stop doing something dumb and giving people attention.
No I agree, if you dislike the content of a video, an actual comment goes a long way to let the creator know. A dislike does literally nothing. Especially since a good chunk of users will DISLIKE A VIDEO if they dislike the SUBJECT MATTER of the video. They really need to bring back the 5 star system.
@@HauntLich fr the stars were a way better system an let people know exactly how you felt. rather then shutting off the dislikes and hiding the comments they should just bring that back. though I think most will be too young to remember "the stars" and think we are talking about nemesis from RE3
You hit the nail on the head about the mindset you fall into when you would see a player with a high level, or with some fancy armor you've never seen or a rare unlockable weapon. It just doesn't instill that awe when you find out you can get it by shilling out $40 for that month's member pass or $8 individually. Or worse; it's an unlockable AND purchasable. I want to feel like I EARNED it, but it won't even feel special, so what's the point to it? Before you know it people will be able to just buy achievement progression in games. They used to be bragging rights for showing how skilled a player was, now it feels like it's just bragging rights because they have enough money to waste on an outfit in a game. Instant gratification.
Man as a monster hunter enjoyer this is very true in that area as well. Yeah the billions of cosmetic armor pieces they sell are cosmetic, but now instead of seeing a guy in the most batshit insane armor you ever seen you don’t think “Woah that looks awesome what do I have to do to get that?!!!!???” You just think “I wonder how much this shmuck paid for that”. Cool cosmetic armor used to be the reward for event quest and in the most recent game 90% of the rewards are just words and chat stickers and emotes (or just nothing)
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Sure it hasn't changed how you PLAY the game but it has changed the way you interact WITH the game. It's a subtle change I think most players aren't aware of and it's sad, I'm glad so many people who saw this video agree, like you! Feelsgoodman.
A lot of my friends are WoW roleplayers and I am a roleplayer as well, and I am a raider. Friends ask me why I raid and tell them flat out; "Gear is temporary, transmog is eternal."
The "this guy fucks?" question had me thinking about how different OSRS is. If the guy bought his gear and isn't a gamer... Fee loot delivery If I kill him in the wild. Having nothing being soul-bound sure does make for a different experience of determining player skill. In tons of ways too. PS - You're right. I've really enjoyed the content! I relate to much of what you talk about.
Honestly, it's not just MMORPG. I've been told before I'm too stringent in my stance to not buy any game that has a price tag and microtransactions of any kind. Even cosmetic ones. They're still predatory as they create an environment amongst users of the haves and the have nots. Honestly, for the last 6 or 7 years I've not bought an EA, Activision or Ubisoft game and holy shit I haven't missed much.
It's probably difficult to play modern games if those are your standards but I respect the hell out of it. It's messed up that you could pay 60 dollars for a new game just to get microtransactions shoved in your face. Pick a lane.
@@HauntLich just had to switch to looking at more indie and retro titles. I keep up with things like DOOM and Monster Hunter, but there's been games that have been announced I was stoked for only to have the announcement followed up with "Live Service" to have that excitement dashed. Looking at you 40k Darktide.
personally i feel a cosmetic is more of a "badge" of pride if you grinded long enough for it without buying it. otherwise i agree with your perspective
Your position on meta gaming could also be taken on how MMOs are now constructed on how they play. The RPG aspect means really nothing when there's an easy and quick way to play the game without having to be immersed. It almost seems like the MMORPG type game is just a social hub with a job system in play to earn money for your character and to see your riches grow bigger. Not a world where you can explore and feel apart of something. It's almost like it's just another social game with rooms with a combat system so you can buy more cosmetics later on with the random currency you can earn. But I guess the bigger question is, how do you stop this position from being the dominant one? The only answer I would imagine would work , would be to randomize the world to the point that there wouldn't really be an existing guide to help you since the world is constantly changing and no guide can really specifically help you and would just give you a general understanding on how to generally play and you had to hope you got lucky with the world you are in. But would that be okay? Would that really be an MMO people would play if it's not at all cohesive? A Rouge like MMO with no real connecting path or consistency?
I don't think you can stop it, I think the MMORPG genre is, unfortunately, made dated and almost obsolete by the way modern consumers interact with the internet. Ironic that the internet is what killed the MMORPG. I think talented people could make a new MMORPG that's more classically minded, but I won't hold my breath. I actually think a semi-randomly generated MMO gameworld could work, I think it would take an extremely talented group of individuals to make it happen. The real question is would a majority of the MMORPG playerbase enjoy a game that prioritized moment-to-moment gameplay over long-term grinding goals? I dunno honestly.
I think that cosmetics shouldn't be the only thing that drives earnings for an MMO developer, but i've yet to see an MMO that doesn't do this and that isn't OldSchool Runescape, as the devs know that it is the easiest way to extract money without a colossal effort such as making more gameplay content and just putting the cosmetics as an extra "freebie" for the players that buy the content. Personally I like mixing and matching different sets of armor, dyes and weapon skins to come up with outfits that make you stand out from other players, coupled with the fact that i've met other players as a payoff for it, even when it's not roleplay, so I value cosmetics highly regardless of if they are microtransactions or rare drops as I'm the one that gives them purpose if they're well designed or look plain enough that they'll bolster the look of other armor skins I already own. As for GW2, the only things I respect in terms of rarity are suble rare infusions, raid weapon drops and gen 2 legendaries because they require a lot of effort to get and can't just be bought outright from the Trading Post.
As a youngster I feel quite intimidated when playing stuff like fallout. Like am I on the right quest the right dialogue option is this the best gun. That I forget to actually play the game.
"It's just cosmetics", is the reason every game has an ingame shop now with overpriced crap and games release half assed cuz more time and resources get put in the development of cosmetics rather than the game itself.
Yeah this is a great video hauntlich. But you know what's worst then easily purchase cosmetic. Cosmetic with stats I don't mean like equipment. I mean it's a costume with stats that is necessary for you to play better at the game instead of looking fashionable as fuck. Look I understand in your video that cosmetic should be earn in game with I would love that more. But I would just buy a cosmetic that I think looks cool than a cosmetic item that is necessary to do damage in game to progress in the game any day. But still more MMO should have more cosmetic unlockable via through quest and achievements.
Fortunately I've managed to avoid playing any of the "games" that have paid "cosmetics" that are not cosmetics, they're just paid gear. I can't imagine being the kind of person that willingly plays Pay to Win games.
@@HauntLich Oh believe me Sir. It hurts my mind when people will do willingly and say "Yes this is fine" It just doesn't make me want to play it anymore because some dude paid the game for "gear" to kick mine's and other people Asses. I should know my pfp of the character is from that said game that have pay to win items in the game (The game is called Elsword if you were wondering) even though I heard and saw that they added play to win elements into to get more players and returning players into the game but that doesn't help what they alright created.
I like your old bitter game rants because I'm bitter too, but most of the times I think it doesn't matter because the mayority of the population permit stupid things like paid multiplayer on consoles.
That's why the "It doesn't matter, it's just cosmetic" comment makes me so grumpy. They don't care if it's bad for the game, nobody personally negatively impacted them in the immediate so they just don't care at all. And most consumers are like that. It's whack.
Adding a comment to sac to the algorithm. You're one of my newest favorite creators rn, keep it up
You have blessed me with algorithmic boons. Thank you.
It's awkward when I like a video before being told to. I feel rebellious.
I appreciate you doing so. I hate asking but I know how it goes, most viewers WILL forget to do it if they're not reminded, even if they meant to.
@@HauntLich Completely understood.
There's a term that fits really well with what you're describing in this video. It's "visual noise". Shapes, patterns, colors, that serve no purpose besides to be obnoxious, and can in some cases make it genuinely harder to see what's going on in a game.
There's a certain kind of first impression a game can leave on me when I join a new MMO, get dropped into some town or hub where players gather, and just see a pile of trash sitting next to some storage object or vendor. Armor of every color imaginable. There's some kind of shiny bear or elephant that's twice the player's height in length just standing there, and you genuinely can't figure out why. Something from the middle of the blob of players is spawning particle effects for some reason. And then you're forced to play "where's Waldo" to figure out where the thing you're looking for is, in the middle of this blob of players.
Absolutely, im surprised that many people disagree. Personally, i think i have spend like half of my playtime in WoW making outfits and hunting cool looking stuff. Hell, i remember i learned how to write macro just to show off my Tarecgosa staff
I was really shocked when I got so much pushback against this line of thinking from the Ashes of Creation discord. Pretty much nobody in the Ashes discord agreed with me on this topic.
To many people forget the feeling of earning the stuff with hard effort and just want to look cool and it sucks.
@@MortemFalbare I think it's partly "thanks" to dichotomy of "free, but don't have a life outside the game because of time-limited quests" and "spend money to have it right now with additional bonus to do quests easier and faster". It goes with every game I played on mobile phone or multiplayer on laptop.
@@HauntLich I personally find, both in terms of MMOs and in terms of single-player games with Cosmetic DLC, that I can usually ignore cosmetic content. Like yeah, I do enjoy it when games give the option to dress up and customize a character, but I don't make a big deal out of getting the "coolest" and gaudiest stuff. I tend to view cosmetics in cash shops and DLC as a means to support a dev/game I enjoy, while maybe getting something cool for doing so.
In Pirate101 (which is basically one of the few MMOs I actually play since I like having the option of doing 1 time payments for permanent access to content, as opposed to subscription model) like, I'll make sure my outfits are in the color scheme I like (purple and yellow for my current character), but I won't make a big stink about which *specific* gear I wear, as long as the stats fit my intended build. At the end of the day, I will value mechanics over aesthetics, but I also recognize that my brain works differently from other people.
That said, I do still very much enjoy the *role-playing* part of roleplaying games too (MMO or otherwise) and a lot of why I'll play a given game is due to getting interested or invested in the stories and characters. I actively enjoy doing quests in Pirate101 or any other RPG I play as my big example again, because I'm interested in seeing what the story has on offer, whether that be the main quest, random side quests, or companion promotion quests.
Fashion souls is super important! I'm with you bro.
... I made the comment before that part of the vid lol. But just drives the point home faster!
Great minds think alike brother.
@@HauntLich it tripped me out and lowkey made my day. You keep on keepin on brother. And I'll keep popping up ta bug ya!
-A loyal demon
@9:23 that's exactly why I don't dislike videos anymore.
also in b4 you say "comments do the same thing".
I know, I've known for a long while, but they are also the best way to tell other people to stop doing something dumb and giving people attention.
No I agree, if you dislike the content of a video, an actual comment goes a long way to let the creator know. A dislike does literally nothing. Especially since a good chunk of users will DISLIKE A VIDEO if they dislike the SUBJECT MATTER of the video. They really need to bring back the 5 star system.
@@HauntLich fr the stars were a way better system an let people know exactly how you felt.
rather then shutting off the dislikes and hiding the comments they should just bring that back.
though I think most will be too young to remember "the stars" and think we are talking about nemesis from RE3
@@Nightout88 Imagine Twitter complaining about videos getting "1-starbombed" rather than "dislike bombed" lmao
@@HauntLich lol twitter would burn faster then it already is.
You hit the nail on the head about the mindset you fall into when you would see a player with a high level, or with some fancy armor you've never seen or a rare unlockable weapon. It just doesn't instill that awe when you find out you can get it by shilling out $40 for that month's member pass or $8 individually. Or worse; it's an unlockable AND purchasable. I want to feel like I EARNED it, but it won't even feel special, so what's the point to it? Before you know it people will be able to just buy achievement progression in games.
They used to be bragging rights for showing how skilled a player was, now it feels like it's just bragging rights because they have enough money to waste on an outfit in a game. Instant gratification.
Nice video, keep the good stuff coming.
Thank you I appreciate that!
Man as a monster hunter enjoyer this is very true in that area as well. Yeah the billions of cosmetic armor pieces they sell are cosmetic, but now instead of seeing a guy in the most batshit insane armor you ever seen you don’t think “Woah that looks awesome what do I have to do to get that?!!!!???” You just think “I wonder how much this shmuck paid for that”. Cool cosmetic armor used to be the reward for event quest and in the most recent game 90% of the rewards are just words and chat stickers and emotes (or just nothing)
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Sure it hasn't changed how you PLAY the game but it has changed the way you interact WITH the game. It's a subtle change I think most players aren't aware of and it's sad, I'm glad so many people who saw this video agree, like you! Feelsgoodman.
I'm bingeing your channel.
👍👍👍👍
The newest gaming genre: Mm-Orb-G!
A lot of my friends are WoW roleplayers and I am a roleplayer as well, and I am a raider. Friends ask me why I raid and tell them flat out; "Gear is temporary, transmog is eternal."
I don't game much anymore but thought this was hysterical, and find the opinion on the role playing aspect of gaming to be on point. Subscribed.
Great video, SEO so goodish.
The "this guy fucks?" question had me thinking about how different OSRS is. If the guy bought his gear and isn't a gamer... Fee loot delivery If I kill him in the wild. Having nothing being soul-bound sure does make for a different experience of determining player skill. In tons of ways too. PS - You're right. I've really enjoyed the content! I relate to much of what you talk about.
I see this a lot in Sea of Thieves. The drip is the Game.
Aaaah, lucky pack my belove...
Wow this skeleman is so right and handsome, also I used to spend all my days playing FFXIV lol, good times
Thank you thank you I know. Also FFXIV isn't that the MMORPG where the endgame is ERP'ing?
the american dad joke got me. fashion souls is king
Honestly, it's not just MMORPG. I've been told before I'm too stringent in my stance to not buy any game that has a price tag and microtransactions of any kind. Even cosmetic ones. They're still predatory as they create an environment amongst users of the haves and the have nots.
Honestly, for the last 6 or 7 years I've not bought an EA, Activision or Ubisoft game and holy shit I haven't missed much.
It's probably difficult to play modern games if those are your standards but I respect the hell out of it. It's messed up that you could pay 60 dollars for a new game just to get microtransactions shoved in your face. Pick a lane.
@@HauntLich just had to switch to looking at more indie and retro titles. I keep up with things like DOOM and Monster Hunter, but there's been games that have been announced I was stoked for only to have the announcement followed up with "Live Service" to have that excitement dashed.
Looking at you 40k Darktide.
personally i feel a cosmetic is more of a "badge" of pride if you grinded long enough for it without buying it. otherwise i agree with your perspective
Play to win
That is the desired nature of video games lmao
All I got from this video was that Orbs: The MMORPG needs to be created.
Creaking Skull
Not just MMos, remember unlocks? Now everything is sold as dlc.
Your position on meta gaming could also be taken on how MMOs are now constructed on how they play. The RPG aspect means really nothing when there's an easy and quick way to play the game without having to be immersed.
It almost seems like the MMORPG type game is just a social hub with a job system in play to earn money for your character and to see your riches grow bigger. Not a world where you can explore and feel apart of something. It's almost like it's just another social game with rooms with a combat system so you can buy more cosmetics later on with the random currency you can earn.
But I guess the bigger question is, how do you stop this position from being the dominant one? The only answer I would imagine would work , would be to randomize the world to the point that there wouldn't really be an existing guide to help you since the world is constantly changing and no guide can really specifically help you and would just give you a general understanding on how to generally play and you had to hope you got lucky with the world you are in.
But would that be okay? Would that really be an MMO people would play if it's not at all cohesive? A Rouge like MMO with no real connecting path or consistency?
I don't think you can stop it, I think the MMORPG genre is, unfortunately, made dated and almost obsolete by the way modern consumers interact with the internet. Ironic that the internet is what killed the MMORPG. I think talented people could make a new MMORPG that's more classically minded, but I won't hold my breath.
I actually think a semi-randomly generated MMO gameworld could work, I think it would take an extremely talented group of individuals to make it happen. The real question is would a majority of the MMORPG playerbase enjoy a game that prioritized moment-to-moment gameplay over long-term grinding goals? I dunno honestly.
very good video, I like collecting cosmetics through challenges and quests
I think that cosmetics shouldn't be the only thing that drives earnings for an MMO developer, but i've yet to see an MMO that doesn't do this and that isn't OldSchool Runescape, as the devs know that it is the easiest way to extract money without a colossal effort such as making more gameplay content and just putting the cosmetics as an extra "freebie" for the players that buy the content.
Personally I like mixing and matching different sets of armor, dyes and weapon skins to come up with outfits that make you stand out from other players, coupled with the fact that i've met other players as a payoff for it, even when it's not roleplay, so I value cosmetics highly regardless of if they are microtransactions or rare drops as I'm the one that gives them purpose if they're well designed or look plain enough that they'll bolster the look of other armor skins I already own. As for GW2, the only things I respect in terms of rarity are suble rare infusions, raid weapon drops and gen 2 legendaries because they require a lot of effort to get and can't just be bought outright from the Trading Post.
what no Star Wars SNES games?
Good stuff
So right about MMO customization, so good-looking when talking about MMO customization. How does he do it...?
It's genetic ;)
As a youngster I feel quite intimidated when playing stuff like fallout. Like am I on the right quest the right dialogue option is this the best gun. That I forget to actually play the game.
*i am interacting*
Your interaction is noted and appreciated friend!
Get your hands off my Horse Armour, you damn dirty casuals >:ccccc
Hi bro, sorry to comment before wachting the video, but are you gona make a vídeo about Sonic Frontiers?
Naw because then I would have to play Sonic Frontiers lmao, next video's probably gonna be about something random like Godzilla for the Turbografx
scrappy doo
The price doesn’t matter as long I get my funny hat all is good with the world.
"It's just cosmetics", is the reason every game has an ingame shop now with overpriced crap and games release half assed cuz more time and resources get put in the development of cosmetics rather than the game itself.
Yeah this is a great video hauntlich. But you know what's worst then easily purchase cosmetic. Cosmetic with stats I don't mean like equipment. I mean it's a costume with stats that is necessary for you to play better at the game instead of looking fashionable as fuck. Look I understand in your video that cosmetic should be earn in game with I would love that more. But I would just buy a cosmetic that I think looks cool than a cosmetic item that is necessary to do damage in game to progress in the game any day. But still more MMO should have more cosmetic unlockable via through quest and achievements.
Fortunately I've managed to avoid playing any of the "games" that have paid "cosmetics" that are not cosmetics, they're just paid gear. I can't imagine being the kind of person that willingly plays Pay to Win games.
@@HauntLich Oh believe me Sir. It hurts my mind when people will do willingly and say "Yes this is fine" It just doesn't make me want to play it anymore because some dude paid the game for "gear" to kick mine's and other people Asses. I should know my pfp of the character is from that said game that have pay to win items in the game (The game is called Elsword if you were wondering) even though I heard and saw that they added play to win elements into to get more players and returning players into the game but that doesn't help what they alright created.
You are right and very good looking. My mother wants to get to know you...
I like your old bitter game rants because I'm bitter too, but most of the times I think it doesn't matter because the mayority of the population permit stupid things like paid multiplayer on consoles.
That's why the "It doesn't matter, it's just cosmetic" comment makes me so grumpy. They don't care if it's bad for the game, nobody personally negatively impacted them in the immediate so they just don't care at all. And most consumers are like that. It's whack.
The heck's an asmongoloid?
Bald MMO youtuber lmao
@@HauntLich One bald to another? Is Lich bald?
You have very nice… calcium?
Yes. Yes I do. Thank you.
here's a comment you hauntfuck, I love you
I love you too but watch your language ok?
your handsome