Why transports in 40k are WAY more broken than you think
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- Опубліковано 23 лип 2024
- #Warhammer40k
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Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:58 The Basics
01:49 Combat Squads
03:52 Dedicated Transports
05:30 Vox link
06:37 Embarked Units
07:30 Disembarking
13:34 Embarking
15:41 Destroyed Transports
21:40 Firing Deck
25:45 Transports & Reserves
27:43 Outro - Ігри
RULES UPDATE Jan 2024: Transports arriving from reserve can immediately disembark units 9" away from enemies. Also transports that hull measure do so 3"H x 5"V away from their model. Combat squads' Starting Strength is recalculated when they split.
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Dedicated Transports are usually the Transports that are Dedicated to transporting.
Makes zero sense, I know. I too am as confused as you are.
It’s obvious, you can’t dedicate a transport to transport troops they are not dedicated to, as a dedicated transport can only dedicate transport dedicate troops transport
Incroyable.
Ja, ist das so?
Can we get that in a PowerPoint?
The rules for "Starting strength" says that number is determined when the unit is added to the army. When splitting a unit the Sagitaur for example says "make a note of which models form each of the two NEW units".
So in splitting the unit you remove the original and add rwo new units, which fits nicely with the language used for "starting strength is the number of models in the unit when its added to your army". As opposed to "starting strength is the number of models in the unit in your army list" or something like that.
That's a really good callout; might differ depending on the event because I know some of the USO circuit have ruled that the split units begin below starting strength.
I think the main issue is that you're creating units of 5, when the minimum unit size for most split units is 10, which is where the confusion comes from. Honestly could go either way.
That eliminator + impulsor shenanigan has survived many rounds of updates and FAQs. We kind of have to assume it's fine now, no?
One funny little gimmick you can do with a dedicated transport, is start it with a scout unit inside. Scout 6", then disembark the unit for extra movement before they do their normal movement. Then have a unit from behind the transport run up to it, embark, and get whisked away.
I do it with Incursors & Hellblasters w. Azrael. As it means I get the CP bonus from Azrael and a lot of extra movement squeezed out.
Does this work?? If so I could scout 9 with zodgrod gretchin then I could advance some Nobz up to it then embark them in them then move 12??
@@jakeosiris3971 If it's a dedicated transport? Yes
@@tinker1945 you know I thought this was more insane because me and my friends have been doing transport a little long, I think we've allowed charges after disembarking from a transport that has moved already. This still sounds like a useful/funny strat to try for orks
Appreciate these tips Trevy, I'm definitely keeping these in mind when it comes to my Rhinos and Land Raiders
I totally missed that part about large bases and disembark in the rules! Thanks Trevy! My hope for drop podding Pyrovores can actually take shape.
Great info as always
Can't wait for the next tourney you guys cover
The Death Guard Rhino is my favorite transport, mostly and only because Plague Marines are currently amazing for Death Guard.
The cutaway with the chibi marine going into the rhino was pretty funny.
One thing i didn't see mentioned is that units disembarking from desteoyed transports are battleshocked. Especially for the edge case of things like hellblasters falling out of a transport their plasma guns blew up, wouldnt then be eligible to use a stratagem, nor hold an objective going into their opponents turn. On the flip side if you destroy a transport and 20 guardsmen fall out that 40oc is inactive, so touching an objective could score some secondary points.
That's why you do 20 guardsmen plus command squad with regimental standard. When battleshocked, they still have OC of 25.
Man the surround the transport tech is strong. I knew I could surround normal units but that is so strong especially with a tyranid hoard thank you trevi!!!
Few games ago on the Channel Daily Dice. My marines rhino was surround by orks. I had a captain and ten tactical marines. I rolled 10 fails and 1 pass lol. So I lost 5 marines just from the rhino being destroyed. Brutal.
Favorite transport is the dead rhino. Take a deathguard rhino, slap 5 plague marines and a foul blightspawn inside. Give the marines, 2 plasma guns, a blight launcher, and a plague spewer. You've now got an absurd number of special weapon options available to deal with virtually anything inside of an armored bunker. Plenty of anti-infantry 2+ weapons, loads of high ap dmg2 shots and the rhino recovers any damage done by the plasmas every turn.
This thing just rolls around spreading gifts to the common people, oh and don't forget the aura is dope AF dishing out reduced toughness and either reduced saves or bs/ws skill. For what you pay it's unreasonably good.
I'm enjoying playing my Templars in Firestorm. Advancing and shooting the multi-melta on the Impulsor, shooting the firing deck, advancing and shooting with the land raider as well as two Vindicators. It's awesome. Might as well be playing Flight of the Valkyries like in Apocalypse Now.
Regarding transports being able to transport multiple units, some have restrictions like night scythes.
Weird firing deck setup that surprises people - Nurgle Rhino containing 2 5-man noise marine squads with a Blastmaster in each squad. The rhino can use firing deck to shoot the Blastmasters with Nurgle Dark Pacts to get Sustained Hits on 5+.
There are all sorts of firing deck shenanigans. Ratlings are a fun one, though not the most powerful.
A librarian and 4 longfangs plus pack leader all with multimelta in a repulsor executioner. Drive up, disembark, lots of pew pew pew
In what order are the MW applied when emergency disembaring and the vihicle explodes? So if i trapped a vihicle completely do i get to remove models first as attacker around the vihicle or does the opponent make his dis(emergencydisembaring move first?
18:58 “let’s assume that the Tyranids player had an infinite number of termagants…”
Now you’re getting it! Now you’re thinking with biomass!
swarmmmmmm
You could fill a trukk with 20 flashgits and 2 meks to get those sweet +1s to hit for vehicles.
How do you correctly measure embarking/disembarking distances from a significantly elevated transport with a base (ie: hull measurements in designer commentary)? For example, a storm Raven or Corvus black star.
You use the base if it has one. Otherwise measurements are done by hull
Does anyone know about the droneports? I'm curious because they can shoot everything within 20 and also use the guns from the units inside but does that mean those guns shoot at everyone too or at 1 unit as normal?
is it possible, to (normaly) move a transport, disembark the unit in it, then comes the shooting phase and you have a unit of eliminators near the transport and the disembarked unit, and move them after shooting to the transport and embark them?... so basically is it allowed to disembark a unit and embark another unit in the same transport in the same turn?
With reference to the Land Raider rules for disembarkation. Roughly 9 min marker. Is the assault after movement allowable from any point of disembarkation or just limited to the disembarkation from the "Assault Ramp"?
Disembarking is measured from any point on the transport model; there aren't any special rules associated with measuring disembarks from a specific point.
Can a transport move once troops have disembarked if the transport hasn't already moved that turn?
I really need someone to clarify me this: Space marines vanguard spearhead detachment: calculated feint. Disembarking a unit just to shoot something then in the following player's turn using this strat to prevent their charging unit even with a roll of 1" to embark my unit back to the transport, for they are still within 3", the strat says "make a normal move of up to D6" " and when the charge is yet just declared, so they are not within engangement either also it is far from the same phase when I disembarked.
Impulser with desolators in it In ironstone with tech marine and that thing that makes vehicles lethal hits as all guns in transports are counted as the vehicals guns so all desolators would now get lethal hits
Not all guns. Only one gun per model can be fired.
Couple of questions on Firing Deck: 1) can it be used to perform an action if the transport advances, and a weapon equipped with firing deck has the assault tag? 2) is the ballistic skill of the weapon determined by the transport or the embarked unit (e.g. splinter cannon is a 3+ on the Venom, whereas it is a 4+ wielded by a kabalite)?
The BS is the embarked units, it wouldn't make sense using the bs of the vehicles weapons.
One thing I cannot find clear guidance on is whether a transport can move (assuming it has not yet moved this phase) once a unit embarks having itself just completed a normal, advance or fall back. Please can you confirm rules on this, cheers. For example, a squad of intercessors fall back and end their move within 3 inches of a friendly transport that is NOT itself in engagement range of any enemy units. The intercessors embark. Can the transport then make its normal move?
Deepstrike Inceptors next to a redeemer, shoot them then embark via salamanders strat in the fight phase
1337 strats over here
26:06 Does this mean Deep Strike armies still have to field half their points at the start? It looks that way to me but boy do you think that would be called out somewhere more prominent than the leviathan rules insert.
It looks like it's just a restriction for leviathan, I'm not seeing it in the core rules or rules commentary.
The embarking in the same phase limitation is weird. To my knowledge all that stops is transport hopping, so you cant move, disembark, embark another, that other now moves. Very specific setup to get any benefit if that restriction wasnt there.
All the ways ive seen to embark otherwise happen in other phases so theyre allowed even if they just disembarked
Leaders attached to units with the scout keyword also gain the scout keyword, so a transport can still scout even if the character doesn't have the scout keyword.
I don't think that's right - every model in the unit must have the scout keyword to make a scout move, and there's no rule that says the leader gets the scout keyword as far as I know.
@@Antelopethy see page 7 of the rules commentary. I will try and get a screen grab for you.
@@michaelbolton2202 scout isn't a keyword, it's an ability.
And the scout ability specifically calls out that every model has to have the ability on their datasheet. So no, you can't make a scout move as soon as you attach a leader which doesn't have the ability himself.
Sidenote: Apart from keyword vs. ability: Keywords are only shared on a unit-level, never on a model-level. So whenever a check occurs on a per-model basis, shared unit keywords are not relevant.
Can you deepstrike within 3 inches of the transport then embark?
if a firing deck transport selects a hazardous weapon to add to it's profile, does the model who originally had it make the test or does the transport?
The transport
I do wish regular Drop Pods were Dedicated Transports. Maybe that will change in the future.
I appreciate this, but is there a video that goes into transport tactics beyond explaining the basic rules?
Heh. RE: Firing Deck, I had a couple of opponents not believe me when I said that Hazardous would apply to the Chimera and deal it 3 mortal wounds, not kill the Kasrkin inside.
So they still havnt fixed splitting units causing those units to by definition start taking battleshock tests??
What about aura of models inside?
Praise the humble Rhino
With falling back out of combat and embarking - does that mean that with a firing deck, I could still shoot, since technically it's the transport that's shooting?
What if every model in a transport has scout but there are 2 different scout move values? Which one does it use?
If they have two different values then they have two different rules and wouldn't get to use either.
@chopsworth3833 not so sure. The rule says as long as every model has "scout x"
@Wes-xk6hl you can use it up to the lowest amount shared, so if you have scout six and eight, you can go up to six since both would be able to up to that value.
@@PryoBubbles this seems to be the most good faith way to play it
Granted, I doubt this happens often
Since the firing deck ability counts as the vehicle making the attack, does that mean that you can use Big Guns Never Tire to shoot at enemies within engagement range?
Yes
indeed
Me not complicated. Me like Ork Trukk.
Jokes aside I'm excited to eventually run repulsors and land raiders with the firestorm detachment.
As an aspiring Sisters player, I never liked transports. The unit I most want in a transport is an HQ, and I disliked the idea of MSU, so Rhinos couldn't carry my Canoness AND her Celestian bodyguards. Think Tau had largely the same issue in 9th, though maybe my problem with THAT army is that I just had so many other things like Riptides and Hammerheads to take that I didn't have points to put troops in.
Glad this edition Transports turned out the way it did...except now I have to buy a few. Too bad the Hekaton is still awkward with Forge Masters...why not have him count as 2 models instead of 5(For the dwarf and his Ironkin assistant) and the ECOGs just fly around outside or dock to the back?
Going to try and buy some Thunderkin this Tuesday, although with the above issues I'm not sure how to play it.
They have faqed the firing deck ability the hell blasters abused this mechanic and gw ruled it as they're counted as shooting as hell blasters could literally shoot 3 times a turn
Do you have a link for this? Or is it a "He said, she said" situation?
Does the Votann Sagituar that has scout, give scout to embarked non -scout units?
Yes
Yep; you need scout to give it to a dedicated transport, but it doesn't have to be the other way. If the transport already has scout it'll move regardless of who's embarked.
@@TacticalTortoise awesome thank you
If a transport is destroyed in melee can the emergency disembarked unit fight in that phase?
Generally no, because they cannot be placed into engagement range.
Depends, you have to disembark outside of engagement range, however you disembark before consolidation so if they consolidate into you then you can
Only if your opponent piles into them after killing it
Hmmm, so I could fall back with a unit, embark within 3” and then shoot still via the firing deck?
yeeee
Quick question: Can a unit charge after disembarking from a Drop Pod?
No, because u can’t charge after disembarking from a transport.
@@IsaacRodriguez-zb7qy Only if the transport moved that turn. You can absolutely disembark and charge, so long as that vehicle didn't move already that turn
Specifically, no as a unit (in this case the drop pod) that arrives from reserves counts as having made a normal move, and as the first commenters noted you can't charge from a transport that has moved.
My favorite is the wave serpent. Even though it is not that great this edition. I think it might have some play once eldar get nerfed again
Also I hadn't realized about the scout rule. Very interesting stuff. Keep up the good work!!!
game in the vidoe is tablet top sim?
yep! More info at tts40k.com
we play in the discord all the time :)
For Greyknights: Dedicated Transports can provide a few anti-tank and synergy options for the Sons of Titan.
A Razorback with a lascannon can carry a 5-man Purgation Squad with 4 Incinerators, and a single Techmarine.
Reliable anti-tank firepower, reliable anti-infantry firepower (with tricks), regenerating vehicles, rerolls to wound, plus the Techmarine can provide extra melee support for the Purgation Squad who had to give up 4 of their 5 Nemesis force weapons in order to take the Incinerators.
One shot for firing deck is also the most horse shit rule ever
The world eaters rino is broken if you use rules as written.
While just a visual example for the vid, I believe unit cohesion above 5 models requires each model to be near two others. So while wrapping around transports or units in general is possible, they can’t be daisy chained like in the past with one model at a time.
But maybe swarms are different? I’d have to check..
And what faction has no transports (ok apart from one, titanic, silly one)? Tyranids ;(
I like the part where Transports Win Games, Chat!
Cool, imma go buy more RHINOS!🎉 I dun even got da marines!😂😂😂
I say 'about time' transports sucked in 7th and 8th and were 'meh' in 9th.
How is firing from a transport counter intuitive? As an infantry soldier back in the day, our transport was an M113 (Australian variant). From within the otherwise enclosed vehicle we would have the M60 the squad leader and two other soldiers in the open upper hatch ready to fire on flanking or rear enemy threats. The Aussie M113 had a turret with twin machine guns that fired to the forward arc. So units firing from an open topped vehicle or one with a hatch or the Chimera with gun ports would be totally natural, (Despite the fact that gun ports were abandoned for making the armour weaker).
In those examples the infantry inside the carrier fires their weapons out of the carrier.
That's not how the mechanic works in 40k
My whole 40k group has gone back to 9th rules. The 10th core is ok, but man, the faction rules atm are just...WTF!? Did you write this codex at the office party after making the most of an open bar? The majority of factions seem to have forgotten GWs intent for 10th. It's become a game of chance, not tactics.
I think their point costs are mostly too low.
I am an Aeldari player and I found it interesting that you seemed to ignore the Xenos transports with regards to these rules in anything more than a generic fashion. But high speed, open topped or heavily armed vehicles do have an effect on the battlefield. For a start, Ork trucks have the open firing deck rule for every Ork in the vehicle. Skimmers are unrestricted by objects when moving beyond their final point of destination and of course, deep strike of a Wave Serpent full of Banshee does not preclude an assault. Unless like me, yours is full of D-Scythes with evil intent.
just watch out regarding the flying rules; they are still impacted by terrain features while moving (more here: ua-cam.com/video/1OfqjO28Uss/v-deo.htmlsi=4qljrwWLoWIR62ID&t=443)
How are they broken?
Talks too fast for a tortoise! Had to slow it down to 0.75 for my slow brain 😂
Transports are broke ?? 😂😂😂 MORE CLICK BAIT 😂😂😂
Add a comment...
You forgot to include any reason why transports are broken. The title is absolute click bait
the game is not big enough for transports- they just shouldn't be in the game at the current scale.
In that case, maybe plague marines and terminators should be able to move a little faster?
Either way, if your problem is realism of transport, then consider the fact that regardless of your movement speed, advance is up to 6 inches, and a charge can hit 12.
And don't forget the real range of weapons. Medieval bows outrange most weapons in the game.
So if you take this game as a military simulation... the fact that there are transports should be nowhere near the top of the list.
What is wrong with u dude 😂
It’s a GAME you know 😅
Go play chess or whatever than)
Your thoughts are wrong
@@robouteguilliman6662 Glad they are my own then 😆 opinions, man, opinions...
@@dakuzni correct! it IS just a game. I have not mistaken it for a anything other than what it is- a hobby that involves toy models and a games that incorporates said models.
never liked transports. Maps too small, Machines too slow, rhinos are ugly.