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Honestly I don’t care who in the smash community complains about FE characters they’re some of the best characters to watch and play in smash and last I checked the percentage of actual sword fighters with no projectiles or items is only 13% in ultimate which means there’s not many sword fighters focused only on using a sword and honestly in Byleth’s case instead of using the relic weapons Byleth has proficiency in gauntlets and authority so they could have focused on battalions and made Byleth the first brawler FE character in ultimate but whatever also why is forward tilt a sword attack and down tilt a sword attack instead of a Lance and ax attack.
@ByoKora775 because Byleth is the only character who canonically wields the Sword of the Creator, utilizes swords with their inherent skill boon. which is an important plot point.
i think everything new was valid. each new fire emblem character was unique. however. the old characters are not unique enough. ike, lucina and chrom should not be in the next smash.
My only gripe with the FE character inclusions is that because they seem to only want to include main protagonists we keep getting foot locked sword units. If we got some other fan favorites like Caeda, Tharja, Camilla that gave some uniqueness to the FE characters people would be a lot more welcoming to more.
Putting aside the over representation, I kind of feel bad for FE fans to some point. Whatever the new games are good or not, these new trend of Avatar character essentially mean FE will never get a good new rep in Smash again and will just get the junkfood generic avatar shill pick. And the over representation also means the Good and old favorites like Lyn, Black Knight or Tiki have no chance by now.
@@brandonwilliams6119 Agree. One of the FE series core aspects is the sheer variety of unit types you can field. From footsoldiers wielding many different weapons (swords, lances, axes, bows, daggers, gauntlets, shields), to spellcasters with varied elemental abilities and casting methods (tomes, staves, free-hand, enchanted weapons), to shapeshifters (many forms of giant animal or dragon), to even mounted units (horses, giant wolves, pegasi, griffons, wyverns, puppet machines), etc... With ALL this variety, it's a shame that the protagonist of each game usually ends up being a generic sword lord, and moreso that this imbalance is reflected in the fighters we get in Smash. Robin's spell slinging, Corrin's shapeshifting, and Byleth's arsenal of weapons (plus his sword doubling as a chain-whip) do a lot to alleviate this, but FE has so much more to offer Smash's roster than just swordfighters.
Realistically Fans don't even know what they want. you give em one thing and then they'll want more plus Nintendo doesn't care what the fans want, most games developers don't and the man reason why is because fans don't have the mindset of game developers/business people. its easy to say you want something, but its difficult to consider the pros and cons behind it
I think having Byleth being the last character revealed for Fighter Pass 1 was the bigger issue moreso. Considering the other characters that were in the pass were all third party or long time requests, the expectations set by speculation were incredibly high. To end it with Byleth and Fighter Pass 2 hadn't been announced until the Sakurai Presents for Byleth sort of let it end with a fizzle rather than a bang. That being said, I really enjoy playing Byleth. I think if the roster gets trimmed in the next game, I hope they stay just because their gameplay is so unique compared to other FE characters in the roster.
Back during Byleth's presentation, it was revealed that not even the people responsible for releasing the DLC were told anything until the official announcement, resulting in the character releasing 2 weeks later. It's become clear that every character since then has had that same level of secrecy. I guess the SNK copyright leak mishap was the last straw.
@@groudon2006 If you remove my error out of the equation, my point still has some merit. Byleth being the last reveal on Fighter Pass 1 considering all the others that came before it set a certain expectation and the reaction wasn't great. I think if they were revealed earlier on, the reaction might have been lesser. It still would have been an FE rep and those dissatisfied people would always be dissatisfied regardless of placement on the pass. It's not really responding with feelings more than poor memory recall, although I imagine for some this they're very passionate about this.
Idk I was super happy about all these characters in ultimate but I really want Hector in smash. An axe wielder like him would be a breath of fresh air.
@@guymanjoni I've actually done some work on a mod for Melee to add Ephraim. One thing really fun with him was the fact that he uses a lance, which gives him interesting options for his moveset. I never did finish animating the moves, but one of these days...
@@opbattleaxe8744 Roy was originally the main character of Fire Emblem 64 and was supposed to have a more younger energized personally. However the game was canceled, so Roy was put into Binding Blade instead and they changed his character. Sakurai said that he was only given concept art of Roy.
Even if I like Fire Emblem in Smash (a lot actually, all but 2 of the characters I use are from FE), it's extremely dumb that Awakening gets 3 whole representatives, with 2 of them being derivative of other FE characters in some way or form, specially considering that Lucina playing like Marth goes against the lore.
Well you have to remember that before Ultimate, people were really disappointed that Chrom was left out of Smash 4 despite having a major focus in Robin and Lucina's trailer. Chrom's inclusion in Ultimate was a response to those fans' wishes.
@@bwareist i would say lucina is unnecessary, chrom is the main character with robin with her starting to be relevant quite late so he would make more sense to keep than her, anyway echo fighters are a none issues tbh they can both stay, be removed or turned into skins
I think the biggest mistake was including them after bombshells like Joker and Banjo and being the last character in the first Fighter Pass just kinda ending it on a whimper.
I don't understand why they don't look to popular FE characters who wield other weapon types. Imagine Caeda, Hector, Camilla, Tharja, Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude or Tiki that would be so much cooler than just another sword user.
People say this but from a gameplay perspective a lance is not functionally different from a long sword, they’re all just disjointed hitboxes at the end of the day
I kinda wish the Vault Boy Mii costume was revealed alongside Byleth instead of Cuphead because the few moments of silence followed by the whiplash reaction would be legendary.
Honestly I would’ve put Min Min or Pythra in Byleth’s place I think those others would’ve been better received especially Min Min since Arms had no playable rep before her OR another 3rd party just for the sake of ending off on a high note.
@@CollegeBallYouknow Honestly Nintendo and Sakurai are bad at organizing DLC, and I believe they did it on purpose just for the sake or creating negative hype around a final DLC and to mess with us I guess.
@@brandonwilliams6119 No, that would be idiotic or incompetent on their part. Both parties are simply working with what they’ve got. Third-party DLC is an incredibly fickle business that has to go through multiple stakeholders just to be permitted. They were simply planning with what they got as they had to juggle pleasing the fans, investors, and their partners like Square Enix. Keep in mind that they had to deal with Disney.
@@Lightpaladin720 So wait, Nintendo adds an actual literal Asian character, not a white one like Lola Pop, but an Asian like Min Min, and some folks still played the race card?
@@Lightpaladin720 People can be slow, I'm black and even I figured Twintelle wasn't gonna be picked honestly from my point of view it was either Ribbon Girl or Min Min
There are way too many Smash Characters in Super Fire Emblem Bros. They should add more FE Characters in the next game. Personally, I like it when the smash players get upset. They deserve it, they know what they did.
The big thing a lot of detractors don't get? Fire Emblem and its constantly changing cast was never meant to have all of its reps in the same game. Once it took off, FE was positioned to be treated just like Pokémon in Smash, having veteran fighters rotate in and out based on variety, practicality, etc. But then Ultimate brought back literally everyone. And as it turns out, Sakurai et al don't consider "this series has a lot of playable fighters already" to be a deal breaker if there's an interesting newcomer on offer. Says something that, despite the initial backlash, Byleth has actually aged pretty well as a DLC pick! The character is still commonly played to this day despite not being a top tier bandwagon magnet, the weapon-master moveset still stands out, and Three Houses has remained popular nearly five years after its release.
In the assumption that the next Smash game cuts characters, Byleth is the one I sincerely hope they keep. Not only is he the sole rep for the switch era of FE (unless they add Alear or heck even Shez) he's just ridiculously crazy fun to play, the most fun out of all the FE characters imo. Maybe this is a hot take but if they cut anyone I hope they cut the echo fighters. I mean Awakening has 3 whole reps, yes 2 are echo fighters but they're still 3 characters from the same game.
I feel like Marth, Ike, Robin, and Byleth would act as great mainstay characters unless someone like Anna got added to fill the weapon+magic or multi-weapon role. Plus they all represent different eras for the franchise too.
@@ClaudevonRiegan_ honestly if it were up to me, I'd replace Roy with another FE character to fill the 'rushdown' playstyle, with Lyn being the most likely choice. Roy feels more like a 'Melee' rep than a Fire Emblem rep just because of his legacy in Smash, but maybe that's just me.
You should do a video on how to fix fire emblem representation in Smash. Change movesets, characters, skins, stages, music, anything you can come up with. I feel the Fire Emblem strategy aspect should be better implemented somehow
I have a purpose: Including Alear, and merging on him/her Roy, Chrom, Lucina and other FE characters since Alear summons them like Jojo Stans. Like, we get like 3 slots left and we still have plenty of FE characters, but now free from Marth clones. It could be like a Shulk with different moveset
Another problem I don't see too many people point out about Byleth was with the Xenoblade Chronicles community. Sakurai stated the reason why Rex didn't make the cut in the base game or Fighter Pass 1 was because Xenoblade Chronicles 2 didn't release soon enough to be considered. XC2 was 2017 and Smash Ultimate was 2018. That reason alone would've been fine and understandable... if a character from a 2019 game didn't get in instead. (That and the game not being released yet didn't stop Roy or Corrin.) Xenoblade fans were understandably upset and confused at the time, but that pretty much mulled over with the release of Pyra and Mythra. Also, I'm upset that Chrom is an Echo Fighter of Roy. That makes no sense lol
@@princeapoopoo5787 lol I didn't even think about that. And since Roy is already a semi-clone of Marth, Chrom is a semi-clone of a semi-clone of his ancestor :P
That begs the question would Min Min or Pythra for that matter have gotten any hate if one of them ended Fighter Pass 1? I personally would choose Min Min to end off FP1 since Arms had zero playable reps before her. I personally wouldn’t have minded Min Min ending off FP1 since it’s a new Nintendo IP and people did want an Arms Rep, except Springman became an Assist Trophy so people gave up on him or the idea of an Arms Rep. Not to mention Min Min and Pythra broke the stupid “spirits deconfim” fan rule. I also find Min Min a blast to play with, Byleth may have killed the Belmonts with having longer ranged attacks but Min Min immediately took that away as the being the *“Cooler Distance Demon”*
@@brandonwilliams6119 I don't think Min Min would've gotten as much hate as Byleth did. She'd probably get some because she's not a third party character and is from a dEaD iP, but since she isn't tied to another franchise like Byleth is, she'd probably blow over quickly. As for Pyra and Mythra, other than "waifu bait" claims, I don't see them getting much hate at all. Rex was an often requested inclusion, so while there may be some disappointment it wasn't him, I'm sure people would be happy XC2 got any playable rep at all, let alone two of them.
@@Alex-95-Gaming And also Pythra being in FP1 would’ve complimented the Rex Mii Costume you got for purchasing it as a whole. Nintendo and Sakurai are just bad at organizing DLC.
I've heard of fire emblem ruining fire emblem. Also Fe fans being the biggest haters of fire emblem but excited when smash gets another one. Best to pick a lane guys
Ah the classic Smash-Fire Emblem discussion. Thank god we're past all that now. But yeah honestly the main issue with FE's constant inclusions to Smash was really how the perception of most Smash fans had towards the series' characters. The whole "It's just another swordie, how lame". Even when FE did interesting spins to it with Byleth, Corrin and Robin it still got a decent amount of hate cause the stigma of "anime swordfighter" was already around. Plus people's expectations for other characters only to be dashed by someone they didn't expect. I remember so many people wanting Dante sooo badly when Byleth got revealed instead. So many people were upset.
I always found it hilariously hypocritical when people complain about “anime swordfighters” and then they talk about wanting characters like Dante or Isaac. Then they’re like “Oh but they use more than just a sword!” SO DO MOST OF THE SWORDIES IN THIS GAME! I genuinely don’t understand the hate for sword characters, especially since they don’t even make up a quarter of the roster. The only thing I can really is the lack of visual variety but even then that’s less swordfighter thing and more of an anime thing. I feel like just boils down to people being upset that they didn’t get the character they wanted. Which isn’t inherently bad, it’s fine to be disappointed that one character got in over another. But the fact sword characters end up taking the brunt of the hate for such a trivial reason will never make sense to me.
@@kwagz3314 Its less that people hate swordies (Sephiroth is a good example of this), and more the fact that FE has a frankly ridiculous amount of representatives within the game despite the fact that it isn't the most popular series out there. It has more or an equal amount of representatives to the Zelda franchise, Metroid, Kirby, POKEMON, SONIC AND MARIO ITSELF. When a series that most people wouldn't even be able to name one title for has so many character slots being filled, slots that could be used to introduce new characters from existing series in the game with low representation, or 3rd-Party characters, Its understandable for the outrage, but excessive rioting like death threats is inexcusable.
@venusstar2963 See, I would agree with you here if it weren’t for the fact that Sephiroth was seemingly an exception, and even then there were a decent amount of people who were unfamiliar with the character who did in fact complain about him being another swordfighter. Compare Sephiroth’s reception to Hero’s or Pyra/Mythra’s or even Joker’s to an extent. All of them received complaints because they were swordfighters (Even though Joker uses a knife rather than a sword). I’m still of the firm belief that the whole swordfighter complaint is mostly one big scapegoat, and I agree that the amount of characters from Fire Emblem are a bit much, especially considering that 4 of them play nearly identically. But to downplay the Smash community’s hate towards swordfighters is a bit disingenuous.
@@venusstar2963 eh.. nop Pokemon and Mario still have the most representation Fire Emblem have 8 characters but Mario have 10 (if we count Donkey Kong and Didy Kong 12) and Pokémon has a total of 10 too. But I don't hear anyone said something about that, in fact if Will be another Smash that put characters like a nine generation Pokemon and a Goomba as characters, every One of them Will be happy, but put another Fire Emblem characters and they wil burn every Social media, but I admit that there are many Franchaise that need more representation that FE, Mario or Pokemon like Star Fox, F-Zero, Kirby or Sonic (unfortunatley this one Will have issues for It)
@@venusstar2963 Fire Emblem is similar to Pokemon in that there are multiple playable characters. Therefore FE and Pokemon have alot to work with With Zelda you have different incarnations of Link, Zelda in Spirit Tracks and thats it. The problem with Sonic is that third parties are not easy to get.
Fire emblem does have a lot of characters in smash, but the reactions to it are always so overdramatic. Especially during byleth’s reveal because there they tried something different definitely made them unique compared to the others. I can understand if you don’t like it, but they acted like it ruined the entire game or something
Byleth trailers was just a repeat of Corrin Also the trailer was so bad, it takes more than a minute for the trailer to reveal itself to be for Smash, the issue is that from the beginning we knew it was for Smash Then it drags even more by acting like Female Byleth being there is something "surprising"
@@icecontrol1No it wasn't? Corrin's was a joke on the multiple choices of fates while byleth took their awakening sceene and twist it. If it was a repeat, it would have been choosing which house to teach, than having the smash logo be one. If you want to make the argument that it takes a cutscene from the game and twists it so it becomes related to smash, thats fine, but you better keep that same energy for the banjo and kazooi reveal. Which just used the same cutscene as the king k rool reveal.
@@igotboredokay.2023 Nah it was the same thing The trailer beginning as it was going to be for the source game before being revealed to be for Smash I'm talking about the bait and switch, the issue is that the punchline of the trailer is ruined as everyone knew it was a Smash trailer, so now everyone is bored as there is no suspense as they know from second 1 that is Byleth so now they just want the gameplay to begin
@@icecontrol1 Okay, but they did the same thing for like, every character in the game? They said, oh look a surprise, and then showed the character. It sounds like you just don't like trailers
As someone who loves both Smash and Fire Emblem (odd combination, I know), this hits home; I got into Fire Emblem late into the series because of Smash. It's hard to enjoy the series and characters in it when its bashed upon. You want to know what I think the sad part is? We'll be right back to where we started when the next Smash game comes, regardless of what form it takes, or how many FE characters stay or get axed.
Holy crap, I remember the night Byleth was revealed. Saltiness time to ever be on the Smash Boards. I think them being the final for the first wave of DLC is what really set people off. IDK, maybe new FE characters should only be base roster and not dlc.
As someone who became a major FE fan sometime after Byleth's reveal, I can't wait to watch the Fireworks when Alear/Sigurd/The next protagonist gets added to Smash 6 now that I'm as familiar with the franchise as I am now.
This, they should just relegate FE to base roster inclusions to get them out the way, not unless FE still can’t survive on its own merits and they need a new flavor of the month character to shill the newest game.
I don`t know why people seriously thought that the DLC pass would be third-party only. I would be surprised if there wouldn`t be a first-party character in the pass, so me seeing Byleth included made me just shrug and think: "Yeah, makes sense".
I was thinking about this topic recently too, i remember people say that "its like smash bros only has fire emblem characters" or something to that effect. The controversy is dumb, but a Traditional 2D fighting game with only Fire Emblem characters would be cool as heck
Byleth in Smash was what got me to try (and love) Three Houses, and ever since I've been working my way back through the FE series. I'm glad they were included!
I think I always know enough about a topic and then you come with new pieces of info hahah, it was very interesting as usual. Back when I was a kid I mained Roy because I was just like "wooo flaming sword goes boom!", it's funny to think that that was my very first introduction to the franchise that would've meant so much to me.
Yooo it's the creator of Path of the Midnight Sun! And yeah, I also liked playing as Roy back when I was a kid because of him having a sword that made fire attacks. And much like many many people he and Marth were some of the first things we would get to know about FE altogether.
I really liked the idea of Lucina being in smash as a clone of Marth at first...but even when Ultimate came out. Marth was my main and Lucina just COMPLETELY overshadowed him because her sword can do damage on all sides while Marth still heavily relied on the tip of Falchion (which sometimes glitched out from what I have seen recently). I still like Lucina in Awakening, but I do have some resentment now towards her since no one plays Marth, especially in tournmeants due to her inclusion...
My wish for a future Smash is to put Marth, Roy, Lucina and Chrom under the same character, similar to what they did with Bowser Jr and the Koopalings. They just have to rework their moveset. They could even add more lords as alts. Keep Ike, Robin, Corrin and Byleth as unique characters.
@@Azurald55 I would barely call them unique, when compared to the other four. Let's face it, if they have to cut FE characters, it will more likely be Roy, Lucina or Chrom over the others.
@@Madeen1982 OK doesn't change that they have play differently, I don't mind removing them but putting them back in as alts and removing their uniqueness and saying that's an improvement is what I can't stand. It's like you're doing it just to please people who hate these characters and the series.
@@Azurald55 Fair enough, though I never said it was an improvement, just a way to keep them all in the game somehow. I love Fire Emblem and I wish for more characters in Smash (love playing as Corrin and Byleth!), but at some point even fans like you and me have to expect change.
@@Madeen1982 yes I love them too and I don't mind them getting cut, the next game isn't gonna be like ultimate and every series is gonna lose something. I don't mind this, every smash game has a chance to add new characters and removing some old ones is definitely the right move, we can always play the old games. For Fire emblem I feel like the priority of keeping characters should be Marth, Byleth, Robin, Ike, Roy, Corrin, Chrom and Lucina. I feel like if only 3 could stay Marth, Byleth and Robin would be the best choices.
You know what? I think the worst about the Byleth inclusion's drama is it has nothing to do with Byleth themselves but only with the fact it's once again a Fire Emblem character and not as different as Robin gameplay wise. Byleth was just the scapegoat of the Smash fans and paid the price for Corrin's inclusion when things started to go too far. When you look at it objectively, Byleth the character did nothing wrong and their inclusion made perfect sense for a new entry of a Nintendo franchise on Switch. The only problem is it was Fire Emblem though, a series that already received way too much representation compared to its legacy. It's not Byleth people hate, it's always more similar Fire Emblem characters.
I still like the theory (though I don't know of any evidence for or against it) that Byleth was an "emergency solution" because they couldn't finalize the licensing with some third party character. Mostly because it made no sense to have Byleth as the final one of that DLC pack (not earlier) instead of someone with more prestige and the trailer felt really half-assed and weird.
Why would they be an emergency pick when they already had characters from other Nintendo IPs they could add like Xenoblade 2 and Arms? If anything wouldn't pokemon be a better series for an emergency pick, they have way more characters to pick from that are more unique.
Also Source Gaming confirmed that Sakurai said Byleth’s inclusion was decided before three houses even released which does add to it and the fact that Sakurai literally had to play an early build of the game.
@@Azurald55 The idea behind the theory was moreso that Byleth was planned but wasnt suppose to be the finale of pack one. most people proposing Byleth was suppose to kick off dlc pack 2
@@vivil2533 Yeah now that i think about it kinda makes sense, in this scenario Byleth was planned and chosen by Nintendo as the first party rep in fighter's pass 1 over Xenoblade 2 and Arms because they have a chance at promoting a new game. Aegis and Min min were already late so they can afford to wait a bit and we're probably already decided to be added on FP2
My only issue issue with all the FE characters is the ridiculous amount of swords they bring, like, you have other weapons, give us a spear character, give us a mage, give me Ashe in particular
My take is that Byleth was a great inclusion to Smash and absolutely deserves to be brought back in the next installment. If there was a problem it's is that they were revealed at the wrong time. The first fighter's pass was stacked with 3rd party inclusions with wild options like Joker who nobody would have expected had a real shot getting in. Ending that with a Fire Emblem character was going to be a letdown for just about everybody except people who were a fan of the game. If Byleth had been bumped to the second pass there still would have been people who would have been angry, but it probably wouldn't have been as wild. I also suspect that Byleth caused a negative reaction because it was a reminder that the fans don't actually have a lot of say in the Smash roster nor have they cracked any sort of code over who gets in over who. Fans have SOME say. There's no way you can convince me that Banjo would have been included in Ultimate if fans hadn't been begging for him for years. But ultimately the roster is who Nintendo thinks would be a good character (and if they can get them) and maybe to an extent wether Sakurai can make a fun character out of them. That's likely all there is to it.
As a Fire Emblem fan, I hated Byleth’s inclusion because I loved Three Houses’ characters so much. Dimitri, Edelgard, and Claude are all so cool and we got a character with all the personality of a brick.
@orangeslash1667 But I think all of those are better in their own ways? Link is a gaming icon, Hero is a composite rep of several Dragon Quest protagonists, and Ness is one of two reps for a small cult classic series (that's helped by not many Earthbound characters having much personality which makes it feel less like we got robbed of a more interesting roster pick).
@@brycebitetti1402 I don't think the gimmick of having four weapons at once would fit the personalities of the three Lords??? The other reason is that Byleth has alts of the three Lords.
What I feel we need is a mage fighter (besides Robin) in smash, which I believe may help in diversifying the fire emblem characters in the roster. The same can be said for axe and spear users as potential options if instead a mage doesn't work out.
I gotta admit I was “lucky” that my first Fire Emblem game was Three Houses (goated game, so recommended) and I was halfway through it JUST as Byleth was announced. So I was actually really excited because I was loving Three Houses and I didn’t care about it being” Fire Emblem AGAIN” because for me, it just meant a great game is being represented in Smash. Later down the line I wished it could’ve been represented in a better way, but I’m still happy Byleth in Smash is a thing to begin with.
@@DominatorLegend before Ultimate came out, I was kind of hoping Marx would be a playable character. I'm pretty happy with him just being a boss fight though
Smash is the reason FE even got on my radar and I immediately fell in love with the characters, story, world, and music (OMG THE MUSIC) so I for one am thankful for byleths inclusion
The Byleth controversy was the event that welcomed me into the FE series. I was never interested in it before, but found the smash player rage funny. Thank you Sakurai!
I think we can thin the roster a bit while keeping good representation. Here’s what I think about each character: Marth: Keep. He represents the origins of fire emblem and represents the nimble sword lord Roy: Tentative remove. I kind of would like to keep Roy because he represents the GBA games, but he’s too similar to Marth. Maybe we can replace him another GBA lord who would play differently (Hector?) Ike: Keep. He represents the Tellius games and he has a unique “heavy swordsman” play style. Robin: Keep. They represent the DS games and also represent a lot of other mechanics in FE not used in other reps. These include magic and weapon durability. They also have a wholly unique play style, playing as close to a mage as you can get. Lucina: Remove. They are just marth again and Robin is already a better DS rep. Chrom: Remove. Same reason as Lucina Corrin: Remove. While they do have a somewhat unique play style, they still serve the same “nimble sword lord” archetype. Robin is already a better DS rep. Byleth: Keep. They represent the switch era of games and has a very unique play style. They also represent a lot of different weapon types in FE that aren’t represented otherwise (Lance, Axe, Bow). The big thing for me is that the FE reps that should all represent a different FE era and should play differently, ideally representing different aspects of fire emblem gameplay.
Yes I feel like the only reason we this many in one game is because of ultimate. The next smash game is definitely going back to cutting and I feel like they're definitely going to prioritises the same characters you did.
Chrom could be kept in with Robin as a 2 in 1 character to represent the pair up function in fire emblem awakening, also why does everyone wants to remove one of the most unique fe character (Corrin) in smash?
@@NILno-hm4io He's really not that unique. Not compared to Byleth. Side B clings and a Projectile into Physical Strike aside, Robin is a pretty standard swordy. And no one likes him as a character in his own games.
One thing I always find impeccably dumb about this 'issue' is the matter of Corrin and why it is warranted for their removal. When it comes to Fire Emblem reps, everyone says 'We need variety', we can all agree on that. So then why remove one of the reps that actually has that variety element? Corrin uses stones, something which is only really used by a few units. Even then people either ignore that fact, or state they still use a sword, meaning they are still unwarranted. Even though having someone who uses exclusively stones could end up having difficulties fitting in, and a sword is as reliable enough as a weapon to warrant the Links, Kirby, Ganondorf, Cloud, Pyra/Mythra, Sora, Hero, Sepiroth, Steve, the Pits, Meta Knight, Shulk and every other Fire Emblem rep all using a sword in their moves to varying degrees. Otherwise, people will state, "Corrin is a bad character", which, sure, he has as much character as a refrigerator. Even though all main characters will naturally lose a varying sense of identity, as players are meant to play as and project themselves as these characters. Couldn't this also be stated for someone like Link, who never speaks and is also a member of a franchise that has a vast degree of storytelling? Is character even needed in a fighting game when all I will hear of them is them being hurt and a victory line? Or even needed in a game that features Pokémon, which most just state their name when speaking? Though most important of all. Corrin is fun to play as. Byleth as well, who also has this exact same argument given towards. Why does a character need to be removed when they're fun to play as? Let alone have them be removed as quickly as someone like Dr. Mario.
Yeah I don't get why people are so quick to remove them when they're such a unique character. I know they're not an interesting character in their own game but if a kid sees them in smash all they're gonna see a chainsaw wielding water dragon, why wouldn't they think there cool?
@@Azurald55 because i see smash as the Hollywood hall of fame of Videogames and make decisions based on that. Would i rather have Tiki, the most recurring character the series have and the closest thing to a mascotte, or Corrin, the protagonist of a very divisive game that is extremely divisive themselves even among the fans of said game, in the Hollywood Hall of Fame?
@@noukan42 yes but smash will never be that, Nintendo owns it so of course it's going to be biased. They will always try to include their own ips first so newer series get a chance to shine. This is both a blessing and a curse as new faces can show to keep things fresh but it also means they might choose characters that don't deserve it. So far I feel like the smash team have made all of these kinds of picks fun additions so none of them feel like a waste. You can't tell me you think Dedede is more fun to play as or against compared to Corrin or Byleth.
Corrin was a pretty shameless plug for Fates and not even a fun character to play anyway the voicelines are cringe inducing. The transformation gimmick goes largely unused, still needed to use a sword to fight anyway, having generic slash attacks too, Corrin getting into Smash 4 when the game wasn't even out at the time in America and JUST after their game launched in Japan said "This character is only here to sell their game to you" Lucina & Robin had two years to build up a legacy, their inclusion felt more “earned” Tiki should’ve been the manakete rep.
Honestly, I feel that the fault of controversy doesn’t lie with Nintendo, but rather IS themselves. For the love of Kaga, please IS, please, make a protagonist that isn’t a swordie. Not a Lyn or Sigurd cop out where they co-use a sword along with a bow or lance, just DEDICATED WEAPON SPECIALIST, PLEASE 😭
There may be 8 FE characters but they all use swords except Byleth is pretending to be unique by having his SWORD turn into a bow axe and spear when the character doesn't use any of them as the main weapon, Chrom is having an identity crisis because he has Marths blue hair but also copies Roy and Ike, and I'll die on this hill but Lucina is literally a wasted slot for someone else that's more deserving because she's not a echo fighter. A echo fight has their own style on the moves they are copying like Ken to Ryu or Luigi to Mario, or Daisy to Peach. Lucina is carbon copy of Marth with the only difference is their gender. Marth stands with his sword angled down to the right- Lucina does the exact same stance like she's his shadow, Marth pokes and slices with his sword- Lucina mimics him exactly, Marth does a rising slash a stronger poke a parry where he flashes and combo slashes- Lucina mimics him exactly with no difference, and in Marths final smash he raises his sword high in the air and dashes over then when he hits it a bar pops up and little tally marks empty- Lucina does the EXACT SAME FINAL SMASH same movements and everything with nothing physically or visually different at all
There are actually few things I like less than listening to SSB players complain about Fire Emblem. In fact, it's that part of the community that makes me not enjoy SSB. The constant controversies, the whining about this character or that character getting into the game, the pettiness of it all makes the SSB one of the least appealing fan communities online for me. I'm sure this video only popped up for me because I've been watching Fire Emblem stuff recently.
I will say while I know they all play slightly differently I think I would enjoy the fire emblem characters more if they had a more varied move set like if Lucina was played much quicker as if she were Lyn with a Lyn skin included and had bow moves and a heavy hitting ax wielded for Ike using urvan with a Hector skin and having Robin focus on tomes and magic with no sword with a Micaiah skin…I feel like this could help really separate them and get rid of the sword complaint
I'm probably echoing what others have said before, but I feel a little bad for Fire Emblem fans. Besides maybe Pokemon or Mario, I can't really think of a series in Smash where newcomers are treated as an inevitability rather than a nice surprise by the Smash community and general players who don't particularly care for Fire Emblem. With the way things stand now, when it comes time for Smash 6, ANY Fire Emblem character that's announced is going to draw complaints, since a good chunk of the overall fanbase is going to see it as yet more favoritism and advertisement.
I don't mind having 7-8 FE characters, but only if series like Zelda gets as many. FE is an old series which is now among the top sellers. So I think series like Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Kirby, FE and Animal Crossing should get a higher number of reps. The issue of course is the variety. FE has many weapons, but the majority in Smash uses swords only. It's like if every Pokemon rep in Smash was a Fire type starter. Personally I would love to see in Smash: -Marth -Ike (with his projectile) -Lyn, using her sword, bow and traps (that fire item you get in her game that you can place next to you) -Robin -Byleth, but make him switch weapons with his down special. So he'd work a bit simmilar to Pyra/Mythra -Veronica from FEH, since she uses magic -Corrin could still be but she needs a different down special, maybe a Dragon-vein effect in the stage.
I like the inclusion of Lyn in this list because she was the first playable lord for most of the world. I would personally pick Micaiah over Veronica as she specifically uses light magic and staves in contrast to Robin who uses anima and dark magic. I'd also just toss out Corrin, simply because I don't like Corrin.
@@thekenyonsquad5672I’ve always felt that Lyn should’ve been upgraded to playable from Assist trophy and Roy demoted to take her place. I love Roy but Lyn is more important to the series imo, being the first lord many western fans like myself was introduced to plus there’s way more potential for a moveset with her than Roy. She represents the GBA era better.
@@ethanwebster3764 When FE fans like to lean on Mario and Pokémon having too many characters it doesn’t hold much weight as a counter argument, Mario revolutionized the video game industry not once but SEVERAL times. Pokémon is the highest grossing franchise of all time. Everyone knows who Mario and Pikachu are. They are part of culture in a way unseen before. You show Marth to a random person on the street, and they are most likely not going to know who he is. If people think FE is on the same level culturally as Mario and Pikachu, they are delusional. Imagine if Kid Icarus had 9 characters. Don't you think that would be stupid? I would and I love Uprising.
I got into FE via FEH back in 2018. I had smash 4 and brawl but didnt care much for them. FEH got me really into FE (specifically Fates) and so when ultimate announced everyone returning and I saw Corrin it made me love Smash so much more, and I've mained Corrin for 6 years now, and it has helped FE become my favourite series too, both help eachother so much
The moment BYLETH (my FE character in my honest opinion of course) made it inta Smash Ultimate as a DLC boi was the like and dislike ratio was something else
The problem with Byleth’s trailer is that it was direct trailer, not a Sakurai presents trailer. Imagine if the reception of the Pyra and Mythra trailer was a Sakurai trailer presents trailer. I find complaining about Fire Emblem’s Marth clone problem disingenuous when Zelda has 2 Link clones and a Captain Falcon clone, while Star Fox is nothing but Fox clones.
I mean people complain about most of those as well. The pathetic state of zelda’s lineup is well acknowledged, littered with repeats while lacking even recurring characters let along standouts from current entries. And I don’t know anyone that defends Gannondorf being a capt clone.
The links have nototriusly diferents properties (as it happens with certain fe characters) and star fox only have simmilar specials, the rest of their moveset is different, they just happen to use punches and kickes
The problem is thinking that Smash fans aren't also annoyed about that, like Zelda is one of the flagship series that Nintendo has yet is unable to get a non-clone since Melee or a character at all since Brawl
I will admit, I wish they took their approach with Byleth differently, with a more original reveal trailer and not being the last fighter of pack one, before pack 2 was known. However, it was pretty funny, as a huge Fire Emblem fan, to see Byleth as the last pick, when even I had thought Three Houses wasn't getting a representative at the time of the reveal. I remember laughing out loud when I saw the animation start, and knowing it was Fire Emblem right away. The Hoes Mad memes were really the cherry on top, and I will admit I got a little too into it at the time without being outright toxic to those upset. But I got my just desserts when Steve was included against my better wishes, even though he is such an in depth character that I am highly impressed by the amount of effort that was put in to make them work. At the end of the day though, despite its ups and downs, and all the emotions involved with it, the whole era of Smash reveals leading up to and after Ultimate's release was such a fun time all around. I truly do look back fondly at each reveal, and find myself missing getting involved with the hype and speculation. And the Smash Bros team put a lot of love into designing each character and making them all fun and unique to play. I am not sure how they will top Ultimate, and honestly, they probably can't with the next installment, but I would be satisfied with Ultimate being the swan song for the franchise for the experience it gave within and outside the game.
Oh man, I remember being the only one excited about this! I really felt like the only one who loved Byleth’s inclusion! I felt like the meme of the kid smiling while the house burned down in the background
I was also pretty hyped for Byleth, honestly. Love Three Houses, and the way they went about handling their moveset was genius. Of course, I knew I was in a minority. I could practically feel the community's salt even as I watched that initial trailer.
i was also in this camp. i started to main byleth once they came out for what little bit of competitive smash i played. That said, ike is always my boy
I’m glad to see everyone likes them! Byleth and Roy have been mains of mine for a few years now so seeing hate online for them was a little frustrating.
Considering how crazy FE3H sales were, I felt the controversy for Byleth's addition was misplaced? Definitely big fan of the Hoes Mad movement though hahahaha That being said, I owe a lot to Smash for introducing me to FE, too!
My stance on this is that, frankly, I revel in the salt of Smash fans at Byleth's inclusion. Especially since a lot of people were so toxic that they were harassing Sakurai about it directly. I know it's petty, but hey. At the end of the day, it's all just a video game with 80 other characters in the roster to choose from
Byleth is one of my mains and is actually the reason I got into fire emblem. I liked playing Byleth, I asked my dad to get me the game, and I loved it. So yeah, Byleth's great :)
i think everything new was valid. each new fire emblem character was unique. however. the old characters are not unique enough. ike, lucina and chrom should not be in the next smash.
Byleth is an addition that aged well given the weapon variety and how Hopes retroactively made it so Byleth counts as an antagonist rep. That being said imo the biggest issue with Byleth's inclusion was that the trailer just...was not good. It doesn't represent the crossover element of smash, the interactions weren't all that interesting (especially since Solon is just doing his normal thing), and weird oddities like Female Byleth getting her own splash screen and then flying away for no reason just make the trailer confusing overall. Honestly I could easily see the trailer fitting more had Ganondorf been in Solon's stead and it being framed as Byleth had already gotten the invitation like most smash trailers.
I think the reason female Byleth does that is because in Japanese the male and female versions have different names? Although don’t 100% quote me on that 😂 I could be wrong but I saw a long time ago that their names are slightly different in Japan but either way I agree with your sentiment. That is my only complaint about Byleth’s inclusion is that the trailer was lame as all hell 😂.
honestly even though i like FE I just want more characters from other series rather then having so many reps from one. Nintendo just using smash to advertise FE just feels greedy and kinda sad how so much of the developers actual desires and artistic integrity is ignored for the sake of advertisement.
I used to be one of those people. A bit tilted that there were so many characters I didn’t know from the same series. Now that I’ve played the series, FUCK YEAH GIVE ME MORE SHEZ AND ALEAR IN SMASH 6 BABYYYYYY
I've always thought an easy solution would be to just make the lords alt colours similar to Olimar/Alph or the koopalings. You have Marth/Lucina/Lyn/Alear Roy/Chrom/Alm/Seliph Robin/Celica/Leif/Veyle(???) Ike/Hector/Ephraim/Sigurd Corrin and Byleth are too unique to share a moveset and you could even combine the Marth and Roy lines, but the point is that people would likely be much less vocal if many of the existing roster with very similar movesets would not be displayed as seperate roster fighter.
Sakurai lied. He wants all these Fire Emblem characters. Every time he chooses a character he knows isn't going to go over well, he prepares a different excuse. Sakurai runs his own company in which he is the director of. He is not a Nintendo employee nor does he have to answer to Nintendo higher-ups. Thus, he makes all the decisions and Nintendo has no say in the game's development. Nintendo doesn't see Fire Emblem as a flagship franchise. It doesn't make serious money. That's why Fire Emblem content is obviously absent from games like AC:NH and MK8, and you won't see Fire Emblem anywhere inside the Nintendo World Store and theme parks.
So... Basically Roy in Smash Bros. isn't a real Fire Emblem character, he's actually Sakurai's OC _based_ on Fire Emblem, because he doesn't act like that at all in his actual games. XD
Some Nintendo fans just seem to really have a strong aversion against realistic/anime artstyles, because of perceived “generic-ness/samey-ness” in comparison to the generally more colourful “mainstream” Nintendo characters (the whole “being bullied for liking what are considered to be kiddie things” aspect does not help either)
I main byleth, love her playstyle. However, to this day i dont think the character was necessarily designed to be byleth. I honestly think it was supposed to be a monster hunter rep (hunter) the moves just seem to line up too well. The sword was meanth to be sword and shield, the spear to be lance, axe to be great sword, bow stays bow, up b to be the clutch claw or wire bug.
Looking back, ignoring the Smash 4 DLC, the most characters we had in a Smash game was 3 FE reps plus a clone. The only reason we have so many here now is from people asking for them (Chrom and Roy) or because of the fact everyone is here
@@TriforceWisdom64 People think that Sakurai is capable of anything, but if Geno was reduced to a mii fighter despite the fact Sakurai wanted him in proves that even he has his limits.
I love Byleth and Corrin, FE is my second favorite game series. But more reps than Zelda and Kirby is nuts. Zelda is Nintendo’s 3rd best selling IP and hasn’t gotten a new smash rep since Brawl. And Kirby is way more popular than FE as well as Sakurai’s brainchild, yet the IP only has 3 reps in smash.
How many Zelda games aren't covered by Link being there? How many Kirby games aren't covered by Kirby? Fire Emblem gets characters because the older ones don't serve as effective promoting for the newer games, same reason Earthbound has more characters than F-Zero when you consider how many games each franchise has Those series get characters to get people to buy the newest Smash not their own newest game so they're in competition with everyone else, and in Special DK and Metroid got those slots
@@elemomnialpha 1.) 3 of the FE reps are from Awakening 2.)How many Pokémon games aren’t covered by Pikachu being there? How many Mario games aren’t covered by Mario being there? Zelda and Kirby has tons of other characters, Kirby has entire games that play extremely similar to smash with barely a smaller rooster than Ultimate. 3.) Marth is the face of FE, not every game in a series needs a representative.
@@elemomnialpha Honestly think people are complaining about the wrong FE characters. Corrin and Byleth are very unique characters. While Chrom, Lucina, and Roy all play almost identical to Marth, with differents only being obvious at high level play. I understand why Roy is in the game. He was supposed to be the most recent FE lord and I’m all for keeping veterans in the game. But Lucina and Chrom are such lazy picks. Awakening is one of my favorite games, and it’s the most important FE game to the series, but why is it getting 3 reps when Kirby has 3 reps total?
@@princestarfy4098 Maybe Sakurai doesn't think Bandana Waddle De is good enough to be a fighter in Smash???? The reason Chrom is in, because Ultimate has a new mechanic called Echo fighters. Meaning that two characters can occupy the same slot. Therefore Sakurai can add more characters without wasting a slot.
@@orangeslash1667 I could believe that Sakurai strikes me as the kind of guy who values other people’s creations over his own. Yeah Lucina and Chrom fill Echo slots but that’s still 3 Awakening characters. Erika and Leif fill the exact same roles as Marth does. And I’ve been an advocate of Hector being a great choice for an Echo fighter for Ike. And why does FE get 2 echo fighters? Pokémon doesn’t have any, Zelda doesn’t have any. The only IP that has just as much is Mario.
I think it'd be funny if Alear's Smash gimmick was using the Emblem Rings and bringing other FE lords, kinda like Shulk using different Monado symbols. Screw it, if people are gonna be upset at another FE character, let's have one that like 10 in 1
I remember when Byleth was first revealed, my reaction was "Oh, okay." Nowadays, Three Houses is one of my favourite Switch games, and his Amiibo sits proudly in my collection. Funny how much an impulsive purchase can change your perspective.
Whoa, hey now, they only hate Dumb Anime Swordsmen! Please ignore that everyone got immensely hyped when Sephiroth, THE dumb anime swordsman got announced for Smash.
i kind of wish they gave us different reps instead of roy, ike, corrin and lucina that arent sword wielders like hector, micaiah, azura and tiki (though im aware at the time of ike’s release micaiah wouldnt have been a lord yet)
the only thing that pains me with smash's fire emblem reps before corin was the lack of diversity, swordies are good an all but come on, you could have a magic user with micaiah, an axe user with hector, a spear user with ephraim, i mean imagine if instead of chrome and lucina we had those! but thankfully, robin is magic focused, corin has a lot of special hits being a manakete rep, like people don't realize how precious that is, and byleth has all major fire emblem weapons, and is very focused on their spear so i think representation got really better but the chroms and lucinas made it infuriating, it's a bit sad... And don't forget, without ike, ganondorf would not have his sword, so praise the lord!
I think the surge of FE representation in Smash makes sense because of its success. When Melee and Brawl were new, Fire Emblem was niche, so the Smash roster reflected that. By the time Smash 4 was new, Awakening did well enough to warrant FE getting more reps. And now Fire Emblem is one of Nintendo's most recognizable franchises, so its roster size continues to make sense. With that said, Byleth was still a really disapointing addition for me. Not just because of the reasons everyone else had, but also because I wanted to see one of the other lords instead, and Byleth's inclusion killed that. I don't think I'll ever be excited to see a new FE character in Smash anymore. Instead of a character I was actually attached to, it'll probably be another avatar that I couldn't care less about.
One thing I just automatically assumed with the ballot, was it wasn't to determine the dlc. But newcomers for the next game entirely Just look at how many characters who were pushed HARD on the ballot, made it into ultimate. While the only one I feel got a realistic push for Wii U dlc, was Cloud, maybe Ryu as well
Didn't the Cindered Shadows trailer get dislike bombed because people were mad at Byleth being in Smash? I remember those being revealed around the same time. Allegra Clark's "hoes mad" tweet was very funny, though.
Only problem with FE's fighter represenation I have right now is that there are 3 Awakening characters/4 Marth based movesets. One solution I've talked with friends about is making Chrom and Robin a "Pair-up" fighter, with Lucina as an alternate costume for Chrom (From what I understand Chrom literally trained Lucina, so she should fight like him anyway?) It wouldn't be like Ice climbers but maybe more along the lines of Chrom handles the normals while Robin handles the specials. In this scenario, every character stays represented in the roster, but we cut down the FE Character slots by 2. One friend mentioned to me that maybe Roy could be a Marth alt, but I don't really think that's necessary. Other random thoughts: * I hope next game Byleth becomes more, Byleth...? Divine Pulse, Magic, more sword of the creator shenanigans. I'm fine with them wielding the relics but it doesn't feel like I'm playing as Byleth. * Corrin maybe gets Dragon vein's in her moveset? Corrin's actually represented REALLY well in smash outside odd voiceline choices and a lack of music. dragon veins would just be a cool bonus 🤷 * I'm begging the balance team to let Ike be a good character for once 😢. Ragnell having a single projectile would help so much. * I don't have many thoughts on Marth and Roy because I haven't played their games, so I'm not gonna speak on characters I know nothing about outside of what I've learned from FEH, Engage, and Smash.
Yes, Lucina was trained by Chrom. She literally says so in the cutscene where the two duel in Arena Ferox, taking the same stance as him and doing some of the exact same moves as him. In gameplay, Lucina uses different animations, but there's still more than enough justification to have her be a skin of him so they can be one single fighter. Roy copying Marth has no lore. They literally just did that to squeeze him into Melee, and kept that gameplay into when he returned. He's just a lazy clone, and should honestly just be cut altogether.
I like how smashers say they want original fire emblem characters yet when asked which ones to get rid of for the next smash game, it's always Robin, Corrin or Byleth
Who's saying axe Robin? Corn and Byleth I get. No one actually likes Corn in Fates, and no one asked for them. And Byleth just made the FE representation issue worse. But I haven't seen anyone saying to get rid of Robin, one of the few non-swordy characters of the roster (yes, he uses a sword, but he primarily focuses on magic and the durability system from the franchise, which also extends to his Levin Sword).
@@espurrseyes42 I've seen a decent amount of people wanting Robin to get cut in the next smash game. But yeah, obviously less than Corrin and Byleth. Most of them bitch about him because he's a zoner character.
This might be one of the few videos on Fire Emblem in smash that I have ever seen that doesn't belittle or put down people for being excited or happy for them being in smash, especially for cases like Byleth. I completely understand that some people are tired of FE in smash and that seeing a FE character as the final slot in the first fighters pass was kinda annoying to them. For me however, I was absolutely over the moon that they were in since right before they released, 3H became my favorite FE game. Decided to go online and see what everyone else thought and it seemed like everyone and their mother was hating on them, going after and attacking people that said they liked Byleth or were glad they were in, something I wouldn't wish on anyone. To make matters worse to this day, albiet not as much, you still have people upset about it and be overly annoying about it, acting as if a character in smash killed one of their family members. Overall, I love FE and I'm glad Byleth is in smash as they're one of my favorite characters ever, but the reactions and actions from the community were absolutely miserable. Also in any later smash game if they are to bring back any FE character, I sincerely hope they do not cut Byleth, one because I really like them, and two, I don't think they would cut the main avatar character from their most popular FE game.
They should've picked Gatekeeper in Byleth's stead, nobody could've argued with that...... and Azura could've been a more interesting pick than Corrin.... (And honestly, I'd ditch Chrom any day of the week in favor of Lyn, we already had two Awakening-reps anyways)
Well let's look at it this way: Marth - Basically the Face of the series Roy - The sole rep of the GBA era Ike - The sole rep of the Gamecube/Wii era Byleth - The sole rep of the Switch era and the most sold FE game to date The 3DS characters on the other hand oh yeah I agree. 3 are from the same game, 2 are echo fighters and honestly either Robin or Corrin could have been the sole reps for the 3DS era.
personally i don't hate the inclusion of all the fire emblem characters in smash. while i can agree that there is a lot of fire emblem characters without much variety in weapons, i don't care that much. i like swords as weapons and i personally don't have any characters i want in smash so whenever a dlc character dropped, i had no expectations and thus i was never disappointed. i was more focused on if the character was fun to play. also yes, byleth buffs for the next smash bros game if they're in it ple a se
Low-key I think the problems in perception come from the four Marth clones. Corrin and Byleth are all objectively unique and Robin has a cool concept and move set even if his character is just a blank slate. Having the split gender protags also doesn’t help making them distinct
As a huge Fire Emblem fan, I never give any controversial opinions on the Fire Emblem fighters. The controversy surrounding Fire Emblem in Smash Bros. is nothing but a complete 100% lie to me. I’m a defender for the series and it’s representatives in Smash Bros. When I watched Corrin and Byleth’s reveal trailers, I was excited and gave them good reviews. I played a lot of Fire Emblem games including spin-offs, also excluding Japan exclusive ones.
The UA-cam comments for the Byleth reveal shortly after it was uploaded are something I'll never forget. People were trying REALLY hard to be optimistic about it and not say something negative. There was a lot of "Haha this trailer is so funny, Sakurai is a master of trolling!". I don't even know where they got that from. Nothing about the reveal is a troll. He just revealed a character the same way he did many times before 💀
I've always had a good laugh whenever someone acted like FireEmblem/Sword-wielding characters weren't allowed on SSB. They made up their own rule and acted like Sakurai felt the same way lol SSB has always been about videogame characters. That's like the one rule: the character has to originate from a vg. (and that they should be fun I believe) It doesn't matter what weapon they use/if they use one, and yet some people thought they dictated that "we can only have so many characters using a sword" etc. I remember some kid threw a tantrum and destroyed his Switch/SSBU cartridge because of Byleth's inclusion, which is hilariously pathetic and says more about him than the game or character. "Too many sword users" is not a valid argument and holds no weight. "Too many FE characters" is not a valid argument and holds no weight. Pokemon has more, even Mario since while DK/Wario/Yoshi have their own franchises, they are still considered part of the Mario IP and appear in every Mario Party/Sports/Kart games. Honestly, it all came down to people projecting themselves onto Sakurai and thinking that their choices for potential characters are the same as his. "I don't like FE therefore there's too many and this or that character should be replaced with MY favourites in order to become a good game." basically. FE is a popular IP and at the end of the day, SSB is a Nintendo property featuring primarily Nintendo characters. People kept assuming only third-party characters were allowed to join, that's on them. Sure, Byleth could've been the first to join, but the negative reaction is pathetic. If we ever get another SSB game, I would assume they cut down on third-party representation and focus on Nintendo characters, like in Brawl. Edit: if anything, I wish they add more Zelda rep in the next title that we may or may not get.
"Too many sword users" is a valid argument and has weight given that all these similar looking swordies make the FE roster look too homogenous, making them have a boring set of fighters that, to some degree, play the same. "Too many FE characters" is a valid argument and has weight because Fire Emblem ain't PKMN and Mario. Those are franchises that were, are, and will continue to be Nintendo's Flagships. They have mass appeal/popularity and huge sales numbers, something FE didn't have before Awakening, and still doesn't have. A cute 3M or so on recent games is nothing compared to what Ninty's Flagships made back in the day and make even today. You're kinda stupid, comparing a niche formerly JP-only strategy RPG franchise that's ONLY relevant because of Smash to franchises known across the globe that made Smash relevant.
While I was never an NPC who was disgusted by Byleth's inclusion, I do agree that his/her inclusion was a bummer, like, a first party character in a pass full of Third parties Let's be honest, it was likely to happen, soon or lately Sakurai would place an FE rep in the roster, the issue was how and when, also, Nintendo has authority to include its own IPs on the game, in that case, Min Min From ARMS and Pythra from XC2 (tho they should have been in the base roster since their games came way before FE3H) Maybe people would not be salty if Byleth's entrance was something like Piranha plant (not official part of the FP1 and a gift as a prelude for FP2). Of course, what I found really despicable is how the fanbase reacted, like, it's okay to hate byleth, what is NOT OKAY is to death threat Sakurai and those who liked Byleth, like, you are barely different from K-Pop stans or Zack Snyder Stans. That being said, f*ck this fanbase, and I wish for more swordies, so they get to piss off more.
FE characters are always popular in Smash, so the controversy is really surface-level. Roy (clone) was brought back by popular demand, Corrin is popularly used in both games she's in, and Byleth followed suit in Ultimate.
I wasn't into FE at the time, but I was super hyped by Corrin's introduction because he (yes, I'm that guy) has dragon powers. Didn't care about the game and I still haven't played Fates to this day - he was a DRAGON with a SWORD and that's AWESOME! My only FE game is Blazing Sword on Wii U and I regrettably still haven't beaten it. I'm trying to get back into Fire Emblem though and I'm considering the 3DS games. For whatever reason, I think that Echoes sounds like fun.
Echoes is very good imo. I think it's not the best introduction to the series, but it's still a very good game (minus the outdated map design.) I can't in good conscious recommend Fates as an entry point, mainly because as an intro Birthright is too easy, Conquest is too hard, and Revelations is no longer legally available.
@@firenze6478 That might be difficult because a real FE dragon could be too big or too powerful. The reason Ridley works is because his size matches his NES appearance. I don't think a smaller FE dragon would be as simple???
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Honestly I don’t care who in the smash community complains about FE characters they’re some of the best characters to watch and play in smash and last I checked the percentage of actual sword fighters with no projectiles or items is only 13% in ultimate which means there’s not many sword fighters focused only on using a sword and honestly in Byleth’s case instead of using the relic weapons Byleth has proficiency in gauntlets and authority so they could have focused on battalions and made Byleth the first brawler FE character in ultimate but whatever also why is forward tilt a sword attack and down tilt a sword attack instead of a Lance and ax attack.
@ByoKora775 because Byleth is the only character who canonically wields the Sword of the Creator, utilizes swords with their inherent skill boon. which is an important plot point.
i think everything new was valid. each new fire emblem character was unique. however. the old characters are not unique enough. ike, lucina and chrom should not be in the next smash.
My only gripe with the FE character inclusions is that because they seem to only want to include main protagonists we keep getting foot locked sword units. If we got some other fan favorites like Caeda, Tharja, Camilla that gave some uniqueness to the FE characters people would be a lot more welcoming to more.
Putting aside the over representation, I kind of feel bad for FE fans to some point. Whatever the new games are good or not, these new trend of Avatar character essentially mean FE will never get a good new rep in Smash again and will just get the junkfood generic avatar shill pick. And the over representation also means the Good and old favorites like Lyn, Black Knight or Tiki have no chance by now.
@@brandonwilliams6119 Agree. One of the FE series core aspects is the sheer variety of unit types you can field.
From footsoldiers wielding many different weapons (swords, lances, axes, bows, daggers, gauntlets, shields), to spellcasters with varied elemental abilities and casting methods (tomes, staves, free-hand, enchanted weapons), to shapeshifters (many forms of giant animal or dragon), to even mounted units (horses, giant wolves, pegasi, griffons, wyverns, puppet machines), etc...
With ALL this variety, it's a shame that the protagonist of each game usually ends up being a generic sword lord, and moreso that this imbalance is reflected in the fighters we get in Smash.
Robin's spell slinging, Corrin's shapeshifting, and Byleth's arsenal of weapons (plus his sword doubling as a chain-whip) do a lot to alleviate this, but FE has so much more to offer Smash's roster than just swordfighters.
Imagine big titty Camilla in a smash game lmao
If Nintendo really knew what the fans wanted they would’ve given us the smash fighter we all wanted: Brigand Boss
Valther bloodaxe
Batta the beast
i really wanted lute bro ugh
no give us gatekeeper
Realistically Fans don't even know what they want. you give em one thing and then they'll want more plus Nintendo doesn't care what the fans want, most games developers don't and the man reason why is because fans don't have the mindset of game developers/business people. its easy to say you want something, but its difficult to consider the pros and cons behind it
I think having Byleth being the last character revealed for Fighter Pass 1 was the bigger issue moreso. Considering the other characters that were in the pass were all third party or long time requests, the expectations set by speculation were incredibly high. To end it with Byleth and Fighter Pass 2 hadn't been announced until the Sakurai Presents for Byleth sort of let it end with a fizzle rather than a bang. That being said, I really enjoy playing Byleth. I think if the roster gets trimmed in the next game, I hope they stay just because their gameplay is so unique compared to other FE characters in the roster.
Fighter's Pass 2 was announced during the Terry Bogard reveal. So we already knew it was coming when Byleth was announced.
@@ericriley1985 My mistake! I should have done more research
Back during Byleth's presentation, it was revealed that not even the people responsible for releasing the DLC were told anything until the official announcement, resulting in the character releasing 2 weeks later. It's become clear that every character since then has had that same level of secrecy. I guess the SNK copyright leak mishap was the last straw.
@@Crit_Nerd Seems like a lot of people need to do more research. most people are responding with their feelings
@@groudon2006 If you remove my error out of the equation, my point still has some merit. Byleth being the last reveal on Fighter Pass 1 considering all the others that came before it set a certain expectation and the reaction wasn't great. I think if they were revealed earlier on, the reaction might have been lesser. It still would have been an FE rep and those dissatisfied people would always be dissatisfied regardless of placement on the pass.
It's not really responding with feelings more than poor memory recall, although I imagine for some this they're very passionate about this.
Idk I was super happy about all these characters in ultimate but I really want Hector in smash. An axe wielder like him would be a breath of fresh air.
He could even have edelgard as an alt since they both have flaming charge attacks and are basically the same class
I don't understand inclusion of Roy but I would love Ephraim to be there
@@youtubedeletedmyaccountlma2263 me too! Thats who i voted for in the ballot back then.
I don't know how you can be happy with such a terrible line up of 8 boring lords, only 2 of which had good move sets. (ROBIN and Blandleth)
@@guymanjoni I've actually done some work on a mod for Melee to add Ephraim. One thing really fun with him was the fact that he uses a lance, which gives him interesting options for his moveset. I never did finish animating the moves, but one of these days...
Is it just me or is Smash Bros Roy cooler than FE6 Roy?
Always has been 👤🔫👤
Roy with the blessing of phenomenal voice acting. Don’t forget his first video game appearance is smash making him a smash original by technicality!
@@opbattleaxe8744 Roy was originally the main character of Fire Emblem 64 and was supposed to have a more younger energized personally. However the game was canceled, so Roy was put into Binding Blade instead and they changed his character. Sakurai said that he was only given concept art of Roy.
I mean I always headcannon that smash Roy is Roy at the end of the game due to him welding the binding blade which you don't get until very late game
Even if I like Fire Emblem in Smash (a lot actually, all but 2 of the characters I use are from FE), it's extremely dumb that Awakening gets 3 whole representatives, with 2 of them being derivative of other FE characters in some way or form, specially considering that Lucina playing like Marth goes against the lore.
Yeah, I mean Awakening does deserve more than 1 rep as it legit saved the franchise from going under, but Chrom was completely unnecessary.
Well you have to remember that before Ultimate, people were really disappointed that Chrom was left out of Smash 4 despite having a major focus in Robin and Lucina's trailer. Chrom's inclusion in Ultimate was a response to those fans' wishes.
@@kingbash6466Yet Chrom's inclusion was too late, most people moved on and wanted Celica instead.
@@bwareist i would say lucina is unnecessary, chrom is the main character with robin with her starting to be relevant quite late so he would make more sense to keep than her, anyway echo fighters are a none issues tbh they can both stay, be removed or turned into skins
@@Madeen1982 i wanted alm and celica as a duo like ice climbers so bad TwT
I think the biggest mistake was including them after bombshells like Joker and Banjo and being the last character in the first Fighter Pass just kinda ending it on a whimper.
I don't understand why they don't look to popular FE characters who wield other weapon types. Imagine Caeda, Hector, Camilla, Tharja, Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude or Tiki that would be so much cooler than just another sword user.
This.
Tiki could even have rhea as an alt
And
Hector and edelgard could share a single slot
Because they most likely want THE main character of whichever respective game they're pulling from.
@@jcly96 except Xenoblade 2 and arms
( which I support because Rex was lame)
People say this but from a gameplay perspective a lance is not functionally different from a long sword, they’re all just disjointed hitboxes at the end of the day
@@Aaronrules380a lance being a lot longer make it closer to the belmonts than to a swordie lol
I kinda wish the Vault Boy Mii costume was revealed alongside Byleth instead of Cuphead because the few moments of silence followed by the whiplash reaction would be legendary.
Honestly I would’ve put Min Min or Pythra in Byleth’s place I think those others would’ve been better received especially Min Min since Arms had no playable rep before her OR another 3rd party just for the sake of ending off on a high note.
@@brandonwilliams6119 Those two wouldn’t get the hate on level with Byleth but they are also FAR from ending on a high note for the Smash community.
@@CollegeBallYouknow Honestly Nintendo and Sakurai are bad at organizing DLC, and I believe they did it on purpose just for the sake or creating negative hype around a final DLC and to mess with us I guess.
@@brandonwilliams6119 No, that would be idiotic or incompetent on their part.
Both parties are simply working with what they’ve got. Third-party DLC is an incredibly fickle business that has to go through multiple stakeholders just to be permitted.
They were simply planning with what they got as they had to juggle pleasing the fans, investors, and their partners like Square Enix.
Keep in mind that they had to deal with Disney.
Nope.
Vault Boy costume was announced alongside Min Min.
The controversy around Byleth's inclusion into smash is one of the dumbest things in smash history.
No I found min mins inclusion worse. People literally Called Nintendo racist because It wasn't twintelle iirc was her name
@@Lightpaladin720 You're right, that was also really stupid.
@@Lightpaladin720 So wait, Nintendo adds an actual literal Asian character, not a white one like Lola Pop, but an Asian like Min Min, and some folks still played the race card?
@@ramenbomberdeluxe4958 somehow yes
@@Lightpaladin720 People can be slow, I'm black and even I figured Twintelle wasn't gonna be picked honestly from my point of view it was either Ribbon Girl or Min Min
There are way too many Smash Characters in Super Fire Emblem Bros. They should add more FE Characters in the next game.
Personally, I like it when the smash players get upset. They deserve it, they know what they did.
Bro what? What did smash fans do?
The big thing a lot of detractors don't get? Fire Emblem and its constantly changing cast was never meant to have all of its reps in the same game. Once it took off, FE was positioned to be treated just like Pokémon in Smash, having veteran fighters rotate in and out based on variety, practicality, etc. But then Ultimate brought back literally everyone. And as it turns out, Sakurai et al don't consider "this series has a lot of playable fighters already" to be a deal breaker if there's an interesting newcomer on offer.
Says something that, despite the initial backlash, Byleth has actually aged pretty well as a DLC pick! The character is still commonly played to this day despite not being a top tier bandwagon magnet, the weapon-master moveset still stands out, and Three Houses has remained popular nearly five years after its release.
In the assumption that the next Smash game cuts characters, Byleth is the one I sincerely hope they keep. Not only is he the sole rep for the switch era of FE (unless they add Alear or heck even Shez) he's just ridiculously crazy fun to play, the most fun out of all the FE characters imo. Maybe this is a hot take but if they cut anyone I hope they cut the echo fighters. I mean Awakening has 3 whole reps, yes 2 are echo fighters but they're still 3 characters from the same game.
I feel like Marth, Ike, Robin, and Byleth would act as great mainstay characters unless someone like Anna got added to fill the weapon+magic or multi-weapon role. Plus they all represent different eras for the franchise too.
@@shanegiorgio4713 yea those are the best choices to Stay imo
@@shanegiorgio4713I’d keep Roy too since he came back in 4
@@ClaudevonRiegan_ honestly if it were up to me, I'd replace Roy with another FE character to fill the 'rushdown' playstyle, with Lyn being the most likely choice. Roy feels more like a 'Melee' rep than a Fire Emblem rep just because of his legacy in Smash, but maybe that's just me.
The thinv about Byketh is that any of the house leader is a far better option unless you really dread the disourse.
You should do a video on how to fix fire emblem representation in Smash. Change movesets, characters, skins, stages, music, anything you can come up with. I feel the Fire Emblem strategy aspect should be better implemented somehow
I have a purpose:
Including Alear, and merging on him/her Roy, Chrom, Lucina and other FE characters since Alear summons them like Jojo Stans. Like, we get like 3 slots left and we still have plenty of FE characters, but now free from Marth clones.
It could be like a Shulk with different moveset
Another problem I don't see too many people point out about Byleth was with the Xenoblade Chronicles community.
Sakurai stated the reason why Rex didn't make the cut in the base game or Fighter Pass 1 was because Xenoblade Chronicles 2 didn't release soon enough to be considered. XC2 was 2017 and Smash Ultimate was 2018. That reason alone would've been fine and understandable... if a character from a 2019 game didn't get in instead. (That and the game not being released yet didn't stop Roy or Corrin.)
Xenoblade fans were understandably upset and confused at the time, but that pretty much mulled over with the release of Pyra and Mythra.
Also, I'm upset that Chrom is an Echo Fighter of Roy. That makes no sense lol
The fact that he's an Echo of Roy when Marth, his literal ancestor is also in the game is so fucking hilarious/sad to me.
@@princeapoopoo5787 lol I didn't even think about that. And since Roy is already a semi-clone of Marth, Chrom is a semi-clone of a semi-clone of his ancestor :P
That begs the question would Min Min or Pythra for that matter have gotten any hate if one of them ended Fighter Pass 1? I personally would choose Min Min to end off FP1 since Arms had zero playable reps before her.
I personally wouldn’t have minded Min Min ending off FP1 since it’s a new Nintendo IP and people did want an Arms Rep, except Springman became an Assist Trophy so people gave up on him or the idea of an Arms Rep. Not to mention Min Min and Pythra broke the stupid “spirits deconfim” fan rule. I also find Min Min a blast to play with, Byleth may have killed the Belmonts with having longer ranged attacks but Min Min immediately took that away as the being the *“Cooler Distance Demon”*
@@brandonwilliams6119 I don't think Min Min would've gotten as much hate as Byleth did. She'd probably get some because she's not a third party character and is from a dEaD iP, but since she isn't tied to another franchise like Byleth is, she'd probably blow over quickly.
As for Pyra and Mythra, other than "waifu bait" claims, I don't see them getting much hate at all. Rex was an often requested inclusion, so while there may be some disappointment it wasn't him, I'm sure people would be happy XC2 got any playable rep at all, let alone two of them.
@@Alex-95-Gaming And also Pythra being in FP1 would’ve complimented the Rex Mii Costume you got for purchasing it as a whole. Nintendo and Sakurai are just bad at organizing DLC.
I've heard of fire emblem ruining fire emblem.
Also Fe fans being the biggest haters of fire emblem but excited when smash gets another one. Best to pick a lane guys
Ah the classic Smash-Fire Emblem discussion. Thank god we're past all that now.
But yeah honestly the main issue with FE's constant inclusions to Smash was really how the perception of most Smash fans had towards the series' characters. The whole "It's just another swordie, how lame".
Even when FE did interesting spins to it with Byleth, Corrin and Robin it still got a decent amount of hate cause the stigma of "anime swordfighter" was already around. Plus people's expectations for other characters only to be dashed by someone they didn't expect. I remember so many people wanting Dante sooo badly when Byleth got revealed instead. So many people were upset.
I always found it hilariously hypocritical when people complain about “anime swordfighters” and then they talk about wanting characters like Dante or Isaac. Then they’re like “Oh but they use more than just a sword!” SO DO MOST OF THE SWORDIES IN THIS GAME! I genuinely don’t understand the hate for sword characters, especially since they don’t even make up a quarter of the roster. The only thing I can really is the lack of visual variety but even then that’s less swordfighter thing and more of an anime thing. I feel like just boils down to people being upset that they didn’t get the character they wanted. Which isn’t inherently bad, it’s fine to be disappointed that one character got in over another. But the fact sword characters end up taking the brunt of the hate for such a trivial reason will never make sense to me.
@@kwagz3314 Its less that people hate swordies (Sephiroth is a good example of this), and more the fact that FE has a frankly ridiculous amount of representatives within the game despite the fact that it isn't the most popular series out there. It has more or an equal amount of representatives to the Zelda franchise, Metroid, Kirby, POKEMON, SONIC AND MARIO ITSELF.
When a series that most people wouldn't even be able to name one title for has so many character slots being filled, slots that could be used to introduce new characters from existing series in the game with low representation, or 3rd-Party characters, Its understandable for the outrage, but excessive rioting like death threats is inexcusable.
@venusstar2963
See, I would agree with you here if it weren’t for the fact that Sephiroth was seemingly an exception, and even then there were a decent amount of people who were unfamiliar with the character who did in fact complain about him being another swordfighter. Compare Sephiroth’s reception to Hero’s or Pyra/Mythra’s or even Joker’s to an extent. All of them received complaints because they were swordfighters (Even though Joker uses a knife rather than a sword). I’m still of the firm belief that the whole swordfighter complaint is mostly one big scapegoat, and I agree that the amount of characters from Fire Emblem are a bit much, especially considering that 4 of them play nearly identically. But to downplay the Smash community’s hate towards swordfighters is a bit disingenuous.
@@venusstar2963 eh.. nop Pokemon and Mario still have the most representation Fire Emblem have 8 characters but Mario have 10 (if we count Donkey Kong and Didy Kong 12) and Pokémon has a total of 10 too. But I don't hear anyone said something about that, in fact if Will be another Smash that put characters like a nine generation Pokemon and a Goomba as characters, every One of them Will be happy, but put another Fire Emblem characters and they wil burn every Social media, but I admit that there are many Franchaise that need more representation that FE, Mario or Pokemon like Star Fox, F-Zero, Kirby or Sonic (unfortunatley this one Will have issues for It)
@@venusstar2963 Fire Emblem is similar to Pokemon in that there are multiple playable characters. Therefore FE and Pokemon have alot to work with
With Zelda you have different incarnations of Link, Zelda in Spirit Tracks and thats it.
The problem with Sonic is that third parties are not easy to get.
Fire emblem does have a lot of characters in smash, but the reactions to it are always so overdramatic. Especially during byleth’s reveal because there they tried something different definitely made them unique compared to the others. I can understand if you don’t like it, but they acted like it ruined the entire game or something
Byleth trailers was just a repeat of Corrin
Also the trailer was so bad, it takes more than a minute for the trailer to reveal itself to be for Smash, the issue is that from the beginning we knew it was for Smash
Then it drags even more by acting like Female Byleth being there is something "surprising"
@@icecontrol1No it wasn't? Corrin's was a joke on the multiple choices of fates while byleth took their awakening sceene and twist it. If it was a repeat, it would have been choosing which house to teach, than having the smash logo be one.
If you want to make the argument that it takes a cutscene from the game and twists it so it becomes related to smash, thats fine, but you better keep that same energy for the banjo and kazooi reveal. Which just used the same cutscene as the king k rool reveal.
@@igotboredokay.2023 Nah it was the same thing
The trailer beginning as it was going to be for the source game before being revealed to be for Smash
I'm talking about the bait and switch, the issue is that the punchline of the trailer is ruined as everyone knew it was a Smash trailer, so now everyone is bored as there is no suspense as they know from second 1 that is Byleth so now they just want the gameplay to begin
@@icecontrol1 "Exact same thing: both trailers used a similar approach. I win, you lose."
@@icecontrol1 Okay, but they did the same thing for like, every character in the game? They said, oh look a surprise, and then showed the character.
It sounds like you just don't like trailers
As someone who loves both Smash and Fire Emblem (odd combination, I know), this hits home; I got into Fire Emblem late into the series because of Smash. It's hard to enjoy the series and characters in it when its bashed upon.
You want to know what I think the sad part is? We'll be right back to where we started when the next Smash game comes, regardless of what form it takes, or how many FE characters stay or get axed.
Holy crap, I remember the night Byleth was revealed. Saltiness time to ever be on the Smash Boards.
I think them being the final for the first wave of DLC is what really set people off.
IDK, maybe new FE characters should only be base roster and not dlc.
Their one-two punch of "this is the literal holocaust" and "if you don't like when I whine you're too easily offended" when Byleth came out was wild
As someone who became a major FE fan sometime after Byleth's reveal, I can't wait to watch the Fireworks when Alear/Sigurd/The next protagonist gets added to Smash 6 now that I'm as familiar with the franchise as I am now.
This, they should just relegate FE to base roster inclusions to get them out the way, not unless FE still can’t survive on its own merits and they need a new flavor of the month character to shill the newest game.
@@brandonwilliams6119 hah, nice try elitist. Three Houses was a fucking blockbuster
I don`t know why people seriously thought that the DLC pass would be third-party only. I would be surprised if there wouldn`t be a first-party character in the pass, so me seeing Byleth included made me just shrug and think: "Yeah, makes sense".
The Alear bit for the survey was some comedy gold.
Agreeed
Is it odd that I actually want them in Smash, simply because I enjoy Engage?
If they couldn't get in, maybe Shez can.
I was thinking about this topic recently too, i remember people say that "its like smash bros only has fire emblem characters" or something to that effect.
The controversy is dumb, but a Traditional 2D fighting game with only Fire Emblem characters would be cool as heck
Byleth in Smash was what got me to try (and love) Three Houses, and ever since I've been working my way back through the FE series. I'm glad they were included!
I think I always know enough about a topic and then you come with new pieces of info hahah, it was very interesting as usual. Back when I was a kid I mained Roy because I was just like "wooo flaming sword goes boom!", it's funny to think that that was my very first introduction to the franchise that would've meant so much to me.
Yooo it's the creator of Path of the Midnight Sun! And yeah, I also liked playing as Roy back when I was a kid because of him having a sword that made fire attacks. And much like many many people he and Marth were some of the first things we would get to know about FE altogether.
I really liked the idea of Lucina being in smash as a clone of Marth at first...but even when Ultimate came out. Marth was my main and Lucina just COMPLETELY overshadowed him because her sword can do damage on all sides while Marth still heavily relied on the tip of Falchion (which sometimes glitched out from what I have seen recently). I still like Lucina in Awakening, but I do have some resentment now towards her since no one plays Marth, especially in tournmeants due to her inclusion...
Yeah Lucina needs to go... or become an actual Marth skin so people will actually play him...
@@PeachTimeX Or keep both and nothing changes.
My wish for a future Smash is to put Marth, Roy, Lucina and Chrom under the same character, similar to what they did with Bowser Jr and the Koopalings. They just have to rework their moveset. They could even add more lords as alts.
Keep Ike, Robin, Corrin and Byleth as unique characters.
This would get rid of their unique playstyles and give Marth 3 more blue alts. How is this better?
@@Azurald55 I would barely call them unique, when compared to the other four. Let's face it, if they have to cut FE characters, it will more likely be Roy, Lucina or Chrom over the others.
@@Madeen1982 OK doesn't change that they have play differently, I don't mind removing them but putting them back in as alts and removing their uniqueness and saying that's an improvement is what I can't stand. It's like you're doing it just to please people who hate these characters and the series.
@@Azurald55 Fair enough, though I never said it was an improvement, just a way to keep them all in the game somehow. I love Fire Emblem and I wish for more characters in Smash (love playing as Corrin and Byleth!), but at some point even fans like you and me have to expect change.
@@Madeen1982 yes I love them too and I don't mind them getting cut, the next game isn't gonna be like ultimate and every series is gonna lose something.
I don't mind this, every smash game has a chance to add new characters and removing some old ones is definitely the right move, we can always play the old games.
For Fire emblem I feel like the priority of keeping characters should be Marth, Byleth, Robin, Ike, Roy, Corrin, Chrom and Lucina. I feel like if only 3 could stay Marth, Byleth and Robin would be the best choices.
You know what? I think the worst about the Byleth inclusion's drama is it has nothing to do with Byleth themselves but only with the fact it's once again a Fire Emblem character and not as different as Robin gameplay wise.
Byleth was just the scapegoat of the Smash fans and paid the price for Corrin's inclusion when things started to go too far.
When you look at it objectively, Byleth the character did nothing wrong and their inclusion made perfect sense for a new entry of a Nintendo franchise on Switch. The only problem is it was Fire Emblem though, a series that already received way too much representation compared to its legacy.
It's not Byleth people hate, it's always more similar Fire Emblem characters.
I still like the theory (though I don't know of any evidence for or against it) that Byleth was an "emergency solution" because they couldn't finalize the licensing with some third party character. Mostly because it made no sense to have Byleth as the final one of that DLC pack (not earlier) instead of someone with more prestige and the trailer felt really half-assed and weird.
Knowing now that Sora won the players choice ballot, it adds to that theory.
Why would they be an emergency pick when they already had characters from other Nintendo IPs they could add like Xenoblade 2 and Arms?
If anything wouldn't pokemon be a better series for an emergency pick, they have way more characters to pick from that are more unique.
Also Source Gaming confirmed that Sakurai said Byleth’s inclusion was decided before three houses even released which does add to it and the fact that Sakurai literally had to play an early build of the game.
@@Azurald55 The idea behind the theory was moreso that Byleth was planned but wasnt suppose to be the finale of pack one. most people proposing Byleth was suppose to kick off dlc pack 2
@@vivil2533 Yeah now that i think about it kinda makes sense, in this scenario Byleth was planned and chosen by Nintendo as the first party rep in fighter's pass 1 over Xenoblade 2 and Arms because they have a chance at promoting a new game. Aegis and Min min were already late so they can afford to wait a bit and we're probably already decided to be added on FP2
My only issue issue with all the FE characters is the ridiculous amount of swords they bring, like, you have other weapons, give us a spear character, give us a mage, give me Ashe in particular
My take is that Byleth was a great inclusion to Smash and absolutely deserves to be brought back in the next installment. If there was a problem it's is that they were revealed at the wrong time. The first fighter's pass was stacked with 3rd party inclusions with wild options like Joker who nobody would have expected had a real shot getting in. Ending that with a Fire Emblem character was going to be a letdown for just about everybody except people who were a fan of the game. If Byleth had been bumped to the second pass there still would have been people who would have been angry, but it probably wouldn't have been as wild.
I also suspect that Byleth caused a negative reaction because it was a reminder that the fans don't actually have a lot of say in the Smash roster nor have they cracked any sort of code over who gets in over who. Fans have SOME say. There's no way you can convince me that Banjo would have been included in Ultimate if fans hadn't been begging for him for years. But ultimately the roster is who Nintendo thinks would be a good character (and if they can get them) and maybe to an extent wether Sakurai can make a fun character out of them. That's likely all there is to it.
4 Marths, but people complained when they stopped being clones
As a Fire Emblem fan, I hated Byleth’s inclusion because I loved Three Houses’ characters so much. Dimitri, Edelgard, and Claude are all so cool and we got a character with all the personality of a brick.
Link, Ness, and Dragon Quest Hero doesn't have much character ether.
@orangeslash1667 But I think all of those are better in their own ways? Link is a gaming icon, Hero is a composite rep of several Dragon Quest protagonists, and Ness is one of two reps for a small cult classic series (that's helped by not many Earthbound characters having much personality which makes it feel less like we got robbed of a more interesting roster pick).
@@brycebitetti1402 I don't think the gimmick of having four weapons at once would fit the personalities of the three Lords???
The other reason is that Byleth has alts of the three Lords.
What I feel we need is a mage fighter (besides Robin) in smash, which I believe may help in diversifying the fire emblem characters in the roster. The same can be said for axe and spear users as potential options if instead a mage doesn't work out.
I gotta admit I was “lucky” that my first Fire Emblem game was Three Houses (goated game, so recommended) and I was halfway through it JUST as Byleth was announced. So I was actually really excited because I was loving Three Houses and I didn’t care about it being” Fire Emblem AGAIN” because for me, it just meant a great game is being represented in Smash. Later down the line I wished it could’ve been represented in a better way, but I’m still happy Byleth in Smash is a thing to begin with.
Another terrific video as always Faerghast! I love hearing your thoughts on things and the way you put these together.
and kirby has THREE REPS
What Kirby game isn't covered by those 3 though?
@@elemomnialpha how many playable characters are in return to dream land
@@elemomnialphaThey could've easily added Bandana Dee and Magolor as their own characters, and Galacta Knight as a Meta Knight Echo.
@@DominatorLegend before Ultimate came out, I was kind of hoping Marx would be a playable character. I'm pretty happy with him just being a boss fight though
I always thought knuckle joe would’ve been a cool character to add
6:57 love the pause to check the time between the smash ballot and FE Engage’s release year
Smash is the reason FE even got on my radar and I immediately fell in love with the characters, story, world, and music (OMG THE MUSIC) so I for one am thankful for byleths inclusion
The Byleth controversy was the event that welcomed me into the FE series. I was never interested in it before, but found the smash player rage funny. Thank you Sakurai!
I think we can thin the roster a bit while keeping good representation. Here’s what I think about each character:
Marth: Keep. He represents the origins of fire emblem and represents the nimble sword lord
Roy: Tentative remove. I kind of would like to keep Roy because he represents the GBA games, but he’s too similar to Marth. Maybe we can replace him another GBA lord who would play differently (Hector?)
Ike: Keep. He represents the Tellius games and he has a unique “heavy swordsman” play style.
Robin: Keep. They represent the DS games and also represent a lot of other mechanics in FE not used in other reps. These include magic and weapon durability. They also have a wholly unique play style, playing as close to a mage as you can get.
Lucina: Remove. They are just marth again and Robin is already a better DS rep.
Chrom: Remove. Same reason as Lucina
Corrin: Remove. While they do have a somewhat unique play style, they still serve the same “nimble sword lord” archetype. Robin is already a better DS rep.
Byleth: Keep. They represent the switch era of games and has a very unique play style. They also represent a lot of different weapon types in FE that aren’t represented otherwise (Lance, Axe, Bow).
The big thing for me is that the FE reps that should all represent a different FE era and should play differently, ideally representing different aspects of fire emblem gameplay.
Yes I feel like the only reason we this many in one game is because of ultimate. The next smash game is definitely going back to cutting and I feel like they're definitely going to prioritises the same characters you did.
I can support Hector as a replacement GBA rep. Or Ephraim + Eirika as another paired fighter like Ice Climbers.
Now give us Tiki to have a beastman Class and we're good.
Chrom could be kept in with Robin as a 2 in 1 character to represent the pair up function in fire emblem awakening, also why does everyone wants to remove one of the most unique fe character (Corrin) in smash?
@@NILno-hm4io
He's really not that unique. Not compared to Byleth. Side B clings and a Projectile into Physical Strike aside, Robin is a pretty standard swordy. And no one likes him as a character in his own games.
One thing I always find impeccably dumb about this 'issue' is the matter of Corrin and why it is warranted for their removal.
When it comes to Fire Emblem reps, everyone says 'We need variety', we can all agree on that. So then why remove one of the reps that actually has that variety element?
Corrin uses stones, something which is only really used by a few units. Even then people either ignore that fact, or state they still use a sword, meaning they are still unwarranted. Even though having someone who uses exclusively stones could end up having difficulties fitting in, and a sword is as reliable enough as a weapon to warrant the Links, Kirby, Ganondorf, Cloud, Pyra/Mythra, Sora, Hero, Sepiroth, Steve, the Pits, Meta Knight, Shulk and every other Fire Emblem rep all using a sword in their moves to varying degrees.
Otherwise, people will state, "Corrin is a bad character", which, sure, he has as much character as a refrigerator. Even though all main characters will naturally lose a varying sense of identity, as players are meant to play as and project themselves as these characters. Couldn't this also be stated for someone like Link, who never speaks and is also a member of a franchise that has a vast degree of storytelling? Is character even needed in a fighting game when all I will hear of them is them being hurt and a victory line? Or even needed in a game that features Pokémon, which most just state their name when speaking?
Though most important of all. Corrin is fun to play as. Byleth as well, who also has this exact same argument given towards. Why does a character need to be removed when they're fun to play as? Let alone have them be removed as quickly as someone like Dr. Mario.
Because i stip caring about variety the moment the character model wield a sword.
Tiki is right there for the dragon character.
Yeah I don't get why people are so quick to remove them when they're such a unique character. I know they're not an interesting character in their own game but if a kid sees them in smash all they're gonna see a chainsaw wielding water dragon, why wouldn't they think there cool?
@@Azurald55 because i see smash as the Hollywood hall of fame of Videogames and make decisions based on that.
Would i rather have Tiki, the most recurring character the series have and the closest thing to a mascotte, or Corrin, the protagonist of a very divisive game that is extremely divisive themselves even among the fans of said game, in the Hollywood Hall of Fame?
@@noukan42 yes but smash will never be that, Nintendo owns it so of course it's going to be biased. They will always try to include their own ips first so newer series get a chance to shine.
This is both a blessing and a curse as new faces can show to keep things fresh but it also means they might choose characters that don't deserve it.
So far I feel like the smash team have made all of these kinds of picks fun additions so none of them feel like a waste. You can't tell me you think Dedede is more fun to play as or against compared to Corrin or Byleth.
Corrin was a pretty shameless plug for Fates and not even a fun character to play anyway the voicelines are cringe inducing. The transformation gimmick goes largely unused, still needed to use a sword to fight anyway, having generic slash attacks too, Corrin getting into Smash 4 when the game wasn't even out at the time in America and JUST after their game launched in Japan said "This character is only here to sell their game to you"
Lucina & Robin had two years to build up a legacy, their inclusion felt more “earned”
Tiki should’ve been the manakete rep.
Honestly, I feel that the fault of controversy doesn’t lie with Nintendo, but rather IS themselves. For the love of Kaga, please IS, please, make a protagonist that isn’t a swordie. Not a Lyn or Sigurd cop out where they co-use a sword along with a bow or lance, just DEDICATED WEAPON SPECIALIST, PLEASE 😭
Nintendo don't make fire emblem games.
@@INFERNO95 but... that's what I said...
Ephraim
"But he's not the main character of- * axed by Hector *
And yet people want Dante. Jesus Christ smash fans don’t know what they want
@@dee_dee4640 Mainly because he would play differently?
There may be 8 FE characters but they all use swords except Byleth is pretending to be unique by having his SWORD turn into a bow axe and spear when the character doesn't use any of them as the main weapon, Chrom is having an identity crisis because he has Marths blue hair but also copies Roy and Ike, and I'll die on this hill but Lucina is literally a wasted slot for someone else that's more deserving because she's not a echo fighter. A echo fight has their own style on the moves they are copying like Ken to Ryu or Luigi to Mario, or Daisy to Peach. Lucina is carbon copy of Marth with the only difference is their gender. Marth stands with his sword angled down to the right- Lucina does the exact same stance like she's his shadow, Marth pokes and slices with his sword- Lucina mimics him exactly, Marth does a rising slash a stronger poke a parry where he flashes and combo slashes- Lucina mimics him exactly with no difference, and in Marths final smash he raises his sword high in the air and dashes over then when he hits it a bar pops up and little tally marks empty- Lucina does the EXACT SAME FINAL SMASH same movements and everything with nothing physically or visually different at all
Imagine the next Smash game be only FE characters featuring the Gatekeeper as a DLC
There are actually few things I like less than listening to SSB players complain about Fire Emblem. In fact, it's that part of the community that makes me not enjoy SSB. The constant controversies, the whining about this character or that character getting into the game, the pettiness of it all makes the SSB one of the least appealing fan communities online for me.
I'm sure this video only popped up for me because I've been watching Fire Emblem stuff recently.
I will say while I know they all play slightly differently I think I would enjoy the fire emblem characters more if they had a more varied move set like if Lucina was played much quicker as if she were Lyn with a Lyn skin included and had bow moves and a heavy hitting ax wielded for Ike using urvan with a Hector skin and having Robin focus on tomes and magic with no sword with a Micaiah skin…I feel like this could help really separate them and get rid of the sword complaint
I'm probably echoing what others have said before, but I feel a little bad for Fire Emblem fans. Besides maybe Pokemon or Mario, I can't really think of a series in Smash where newcomers are treated as an inevitability rather than a nice surprise by the Smash community and general players who don't particularly care for Fire Emblem. With the way things stand now, when it comes time for Smash 6, ANY Fire Emblem character that's announced is going to draw complaints, since a good chunk of the overall fanbase is going to see it as yet more favoritism and advertisement.
I don't mind having 7-8 FE characters, but only if series like Zelda gets as many. FE is an old series which is now among the top sellers. So I think series like Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Kirby, FE and Animal Crossing should get a higher number of reps.
The issue of course is the variety. FE has many weapons, but the majority in Smash uses swords only. It's like if every Pokemon rep in Smash was a Fire type starter.
Personally I would love to see in Smash:
-Marth
-Ike (with his projectile)
-Lyn, using her sword, bow and traps (that fire item you get in her game that you can place next to you)
-Robin
-Byleth, but make him switch weapons with his down special. So he'd work a bit simmilar to Pyra/Mythra
-Veronica from FEH, since she uses magic
-Corrin could still be but she needs a different down special, maybe a Dragon-vein effect in the stage.
I like the inclusion of Lyn in this list because she was the first playable lord for most of the world. I would personally pick Micaiah over Veronica as she specifically uses light magic and staves in contrast to Robin who uses anima and dark magic. I'd also just toss out Corrin, simply because I don't like Corrin.
Also, Mario and pokemon have plenty of reps.
Veronica is an interesting choice but I’m not sure people would be happy for a gacha game character to be added. Maybe add Micaiah instead?
@@thekenyonsquad5672I’ve always felt that Lyn should’ve been upgraded to playable from Assist trophy and Roy demoted to take her place. I love Roy but Lyn is more important to the series imo, being the first lord many western fans like myself was introduced to plus there’s way more potential for a moveset with her than Roy. She represents the GBA era better.
@@ethanwebster3764 When FE fans like to lean on Mario and Pokémon having too many characters it doesn’t hold much weight as a counter argument, Mario revolutionized the video game industry not once but SEVERAL times.
Pokémon is the highest grossing franchise of all time. Everyone knows who Mario and Pikachu are. They are part of culture in a way unseen before.
You show Marth to a random person on the street, and they are most likely not going to know who he is. If people think FE is on the same level culturally as Mario and Pikachu, they are delusional.
Imagine if Kid Icarus had 9 characters. Don't you think that would be stupid? I would and I love Uprising.
I got into FE via FEH back in 2018. I had smash 4 and brawl but didnt care much for them. FEH got me really into FE (specifically Fates) and so when ultimate announced everyone returning and I saw Corrin it made me love Smash so much more, and I've mained Corrin for 6 years now, and it has helped FE become my favourite series too, both help eachother so much
The moment BYLETH (my FE character in my honest opinion of course) made it inta Smash Ultimate as a DLC boi was the like and dislike ratio was something else
STAAAAR WAAAARS?!
The problem with Byleth’s trailer is that it was direct trailer, not a Sakurai presents trailer. Imagine if the reception of the Pyra and Mythra trailer was a Sakurai trailer presents trailer.
I find complaining about Fire Emblem’s Marth clone problem disingenuous when Zelda has 2 Link clones and a Captain Falcon clone, while Star Fox is nothing but Fox clones.
I mean people complain about most of those as well. The pathetic state of zelda’s lineup is well acknowledged, littered with repeats while lacking even recurring characters let along standouts from current entries. And I don’t know anyone that defends Gannondorf being a capt clone.
Hey to be fair, its not we Zelda fans haven't been complaining about the weird choices taken with the Zelda cast in Smash.
The links have nototriusly diferents properties (as it happens with certain fe characters) and star fox only have simmilar specials, the rest of their moveset is different, they just happen to use punches and kickes
The problem is thinking that Smash fans aren't also annoyed about that, like Zelda is one of the flagship series that Nintendo has yet is unable to get a non-clone since Melee or a character at all since Brawl
2 Link clones? There's 3. Link, Young Link, and Toon Link.
Why did they make them all sword users? I always saw Robin more of a mage, that might have changed it up at least.
I will admit, I wish they took their approach with Byleth differently, with a more original reveal trailer and not being the last fighter of pack one, before pack 2 was known. However, it was pretty funny, as a huge Fire Emblem fan, to see Byleth as the last pick, when even I had thought Three Houses wasn't getting a representative at the time of the reveal. I remember laughing out loud when I saw the animation start, and knowing it was Fire Emblem right away. The Hoes Mad memes were really the cherry on top, and I will admit I got a little too into it at the time without being outright toxic to those upset. But I got my just desserts when Steve was included against my better wishes, even though he is such an in depth character that I am highly impressed by the amount of effort that was put in to make them work.
At the end of the day though, despite its ups and downs, and all the emotions involved with it, the whole era of Smash reveals leading up to and after Ultimate's release was such a fun time all around. I truly do look back fondly at each reveal, and find myself missing getting involved with the hype and speculation. And the Smash Bros team put a lot of love into designing each character and making them all fun and unique to play. I am not sure how they will top Ultimate, and honestly, they probably can't with the next installment, but I would be satisfied with Ultimate being the swan song for the franchise for the experience it gave within and outside the game.
Hoes Mad was one of the worse things to come out of the smash community
Oh man, I remember being the only one excited about this! I really felt like the only one who loved Byleth’s inclusion! I felt like the meme of the kid smiling while the house burned down in the background
I was also pretty hyped for Byleth, honestly. Love Three Houses, and the way they went about handling their moveset was genius. Of course, I knew I was in a minority. I could practically feel the community's salt even as I watched that initial trailer.
Id literally just finished my first playthrough when byleth got announced, so i was fairly happy. Had a field day watching comments arise.
i was also in this camp. i started to main byleth once they came out for what little bit of competitive smash i played. That said, ike is always my boy
Byleth was an unexpected by amazing addition
I’m glad to see everyone likes them! Byleth and Roy have been mains of mine for a few years now so seeing hate online for them was a little frustrating.
Considering how crazy FE3H sales were, I felt the controversy for Byleth's addition was misplaced? Definitely big fan of the Hoes Mad movement though hahahaha
That being said, I owe a lot to Smash for introducing me to FE, too!
My stance on this is that, frankly, I revel in the salt of Smash fans at Byleth's inclusion. Especially since a lot of people were so toxic that they were harassing Sakurai about it directly. I know it's petty, but hey. At the end of the day, it's all just a video game with 80 other characters in the roster to choose from
Byleth is one of my mains and is actually the reason I got into fire emblem. I liked playing Byleth, I asked my dad to get me the game, and I loved it. So yeah, Byleth's great :)
i think everything new was valid. each new fire emblem character was unique. however. the old characters are not unique enough. ike, lucina and chrom should not be in the next smash.
Byleth is an addition that aged well given the weapon variety and how Hopes retroactively made it so Byleth counts as an antagonist rep. That being said imo the biggest issue with Byleth's inclusion was that the trailer just...was not good. It doesn't represent the crossover element of smash, the interactions weren't all that interesting (especially since Solon is just doing his normal thing), and weird oddities like Female Byleth getting her own splash screen and then flying away for no reason just make the trailer confusing overall. Honestly I could easily see the trailer fitting more had Ganondorf been in Solon's stead and it being framed as Byleth had already gotten the invitation like most smash trailers.
I think the reason female Byleth does that is because in Japanese the male and female versions have different names? Although don’t 100% quote me on that 😂 I could be wrong but I saw a long time ago that their names are slightly different in Japan but either way I agree with your sentiment. That is my only complaint about Byleth’s inclusion is that the trailer was lame as all hell 😂.
honestly even though i like FE I just want more characters from other series rather then having so many reps from one.
Nintendo just using smash to advertise FE just feels greedy and kinda sad how so much of the developers actual desires and artistic integrity is ignored for the sake of advertisement.
I used to be one of those people. A bit tilted that there were so many characters I didn’t know from the same series.
Now that I’ve played the series, FUCK YEAH GIVE ME MORE
SHEZ AND ALEAR IN SMASH 6 BABYYYYYY
@5:20 I was hype during Corrin's inclusion. That was memed to high-heaven.
I've always thought an easy solution would be to just make the lords alt colours similar to Olimar/Alph or the koopalings.
You have Marth/Lucina/Lyn/Alear
Roy/Chrom/Alm/Seliph
Robin/Celica/Leif/Veyle(???)
Ike/Hector/Ephraim/Sigurd
Corrin and Byleth are too unique to share a moveset and you could even combine the Marth and Roy lines, but the point is that people would likely be much less vocal if many of the existing roster with very similar movesets would not be displayed as seperate roster fighter.
Sakurai lied. He wants all these Fire Emblem characters. Every time he chooses a character he knows isn't going to go over well, he prepares a different excuse.
Sakurai runs his own company in which he is the director of. He is not a Nintendo employee nor does he have to answer to Nintendo higher-ups. Thus, he makes all the decisions and Nintendo has no say in the game's development.
Nintendo doesn't see Fire Emblem as a flagship franchise. It doesn't make serious money. That's why Fire Emblem content is obviously absent from games like AC:NH and MK8, and you won't see Fire Emblem anywhere inside the Nintendo World Store and theme parks.
Bingo
So... Basically Roy in Smash Bros. isn't a real Fire Emblem character, he's actually Sakurai's OC _based_ on Fire Emblem, because he doesn't act like that at all in his actual games. XD
I have always wanted to know more about this. Thanks
Some Nintendo fans just seem to really have a strong aversion against realistic/anime artstyles, because of perceived “generic-ness/samey-ness” in comparison to the generally more colourful “mainstream” Nintendo characters (the whole “being bullied for liking what are considered to be kiddie things” aspect does not help either)
I main byleth, love her playstyle. However, to this day i dont think the character was necessarily designed to be byleth. I honestly think it was supposed to be a monster hunter rep (hunter) the moves just seem to line up too well. The sword was meanth to be sword and shield, the spear to be lance, axe to be great sword, bow stays bow, up b to be the clutch claw or wire bug.
The sole reason we got so many Fire Emblem characters is because people wanted to bring back Roy.
Looking back, ignoring the Smash 4 DLC, the most characters we had in a Smash game was 3 FE reps plus a clone. The only reason we have so many here now is from people asking for them (Chrom and Roy) or because of the fact everyone is here
Smash fans are their own worst enemies
@@TriforceWisdom64 People think that Sakurai is capable of anything, but if Geno was reduced to a mii fighter despite the fact Sakurai wanted him in proves that even he has his limits.
I love Byleth and Corrin, FE is my second favorite game series. But more reps than Zelda and Kirby is nuts. Zelda is Nintendo’s 3rd best selling IP and hasn’t gotten a new smash rep since Brawl. And Kirby is way more popular than FE as well as Sakurai’s brainchild, yet the IP only has 3 reps in smash.
How many Zelda games aren't covered by Link being there?
How many Kirby games aren't covered by Kirby?
Fire Emblem gets characters because the older ones don't serve as effective promoting for the newer games, same reason Earthbound has more characters than F-Zero when you consider how many games each franchise has
Those series get characters to get people to buy the newest Smash not their own newest game so they're in competition with everyone else, and in Special DK and Metroid got those slots
@@elemomnialpha
1.) 3 of the FE reps are from Awakening
2.)How many Pokémon games aren’t covered by Pikachu being there? How many Mario games aren’t covered by Mario being there?
Zelda and Kirby has tons of other characters, Kirby has entire games that play extremely similar to smash with barely a smaller rooster than Ultimate.
3.) Marth is the face of FE, not every game in a series needs a representative.
@@elemomnialpha
Honestly think people are complaining about the wrong FE characters. Corrin and Byleth are very unique characters. While Chrom, Lucina, and Roy all play almost identical to Marth, with differents only being obvious at high level play. I understand why Roy is in the game. He was supposed to be the most recent FE lord and I’m all for keeping veterans in the game. But Lucina and Chrom are such lazy picks. Awakening is one of my favorite games, and it’s the most important FE game to the series, but why is it getting 3 reps when Kirby has 3 reps total?
@@princestarfy4098 Maybe Sakurai doesn't think Bandana Waddle De is good enough to be a fighter in Smash????
The reason Chrom is in, because Ultimate has a new mechanic called Echo fighters. Meaning that two characters can occupy the same slot. Therefore Sakurai can add more characters without wasting a slot.
@@orangeslash1667
I could believe that Sakurai strikes me as the kind of guy who values other people’s creations over his own.
Yeah Lucina and Chrom fill Echo slots but that’s still 3 Awakening characters. Erika and Leif fill the exact same roles as Marth does. And I’ve been an advocate of Hector being a great choice for an Echo fighter for Ike. And why does FE get 2 echo fighters? Pokémon doesn’t have any, Zelda doesn’t have any. The only IP that has just as much is Mario.
I think it'd be funny if Alear's Smash gimmick was using the Emblem Rings and bringing other FE lords, kinda like Shulk using different Monado symbols. Screw it, if people are gonna be upset at another FE character, let's have one that like 10 in 1
Making Alear a sort of Shang Tsung for FE characters would actually be kinda sick.
I remember when Byleth was first revealed, my reaction was "Oh, okay." Nowadays, Three Houses is one of my favourite Switch games, and his Amiibo sits proudly in my collection. Funny how much an impulsive purchase can change your perspective.
If there's one thing Smash fans hate more than consenting adults, showers, the LGBTQIA, and being decent reasonable people, it's a sword
Makes me wonder if they'd hate Link if LoZ wasn't like the third or fourth biggest franchise repped.
You can definitely add "queers" to the list. They never get nearly as enraged at other swordfighters as they did the two canonically bisexual ones
@@ashen_roses consider it added
"consenting adults" 💀
Whoa, hey now, they only hate Dumb Anime Swordsmen!
Please ignore that everyone got immensely hyped when Sephiroth, THE dumb anime swordsman got announced for Smash.
Amazing vid! Imagine the reaction if we get Veronica or Alfonse in Smash 6 lmao
i kind of wish they gave us different reps instead of roy, ike, corrin and lucina that arent sword wielders like hector, micaiah, azura and tiki (though im aware at the time of ike’s release micaiah wouldnt have been a lord yet)
This.
the only thing that pains me with smash's fire emblem reps before corin was the lack of diversity, swordies are good an all but come on, you could have a magic user with micaiah, an axe user with hector, a spear user with ephraim, i mean imagine if instead of chrome and lucina we had those! but thankfully, robin is magic focused, corin has a lot of special hits being a manakete rep, like people don't realize how precious that is, and byleth has all major fire emblem weapons, and is very focused on their spear so i think representation got really better but the chroms and lucinas made it infuriating, it's a bit sad... And don't forget, without ike, ganondorf would not have his sword, so praise the lord!
I think the surge of FE representation in Smash makes sense because of its success. When Melee and Brawl were new, Fire Emblem was niche, so the Smash roster reflected that. By the time Smash 4 was new, Awakening did well enough to warrant FE getting more reps. And now Fire Emblem is one of Nintendo's most recognizable franchises, so its roster size continues to make sense.
With that said, Byleth was still a really disapointing addition for me. Not just because of the reasons everyone else had, but also because I wanted to see one of the other lords instead, and Byleth's inclusion killed that. I don't think I'll ever be excited to see a new FE character in Smash anymore. Instead of a character I was actually attached to, it'll probably be another avatar that I couldn't care less about.
Byleth was chosen because Sakurai wants a characters with 4 weapons???? I can't imagine the other lords using all three at once.
One thing I just automatically assumed with the ballot, was it wasn't to determine the dlc. But newcomers for the next game entirely
Just look at how many characters who were pushed HARD on the ballot, made it into ultimate. While the only one I feel got a realistic push for Wii U dlc, was Cloud, maybe Ryu as well
Adding Corrin was a bad idea because it's Corrin.
Corrin is freaking awesome wtf
And aside from Robin Corrin is easily the most creative and fun to play FE fighter in Smash.
And also, Female Corrin is extremely hot. Barefoot waifu.
Leave my dragon child alone!
Oh no bro you did it now, you got the foot guys mad.
Didn't the Cindered Shadows trailer get dislike bombed because people were mad at Byleth being in Smash? I remember those being revealed around the same time. Allegra Clark's "hoes mad" tweet was very funny, though.
FYI mario has 9 characters
FYI when idiots compare a niche strategy RPG to the guy that saved the entire videogame industry.
Only problem with FE's fighter represenation I have right now is that there are 3 Awakening characters/4 Marth based movesets. One solution I've talked with friends about is making Chrom and Robin a "Pair-up" fighter, with Lucina as an alternate costume for Chrom (From what I understand Chrom literally trained Lucina, so she should fight like him anyway?) It wouldn't be like Ice climbers but maybe more along the lines of Chrom handles the normals while Robin handles the specials. In this scenario, every character stays represented in the roster, but we cut down the FE Character slots by 2. One friend mentioned to me that maybe Roy could be a Marth alt, but I don't really think that's necessary.
Other random thoughts:
* I hope next game Byleth becomes more, Byleth...? Divine Pulse, Magic, more sword of the creator shenanigans. I'm fine with them wielding the relics but it doesn't feel like I'm playing as Byleth.
* Corrin maybe gets Dragon vein's in her moveset? Corrin's actually represented REALLY well in smash outside odd voiceline choices and a lack of music. dragon veins would just be a cool bonus 🤷
* I'm begging the balance team to let Ike be a good character for once 😢. Ragnell having a single projectile would help so much.
* I don't have many thoughts on Marth and Roy because I haven't played their games, so I'm not gonna speak on characters I know nothing about outside of what I've learned from FEH, Engage, and Smash.
Yes, Lucina was trained by Chrom. She literally says so in the cutscene where the two duel in Arena Ferox, taking the same stance as him and doing some of the exact same moves as him. In gameplay, Lucina uses different animations, but there's still more than enough justification to have her be a skin of him so they can be one single fighter.
Roy copying Marth has no lore. They literally just did that to squeeze him into Melee, and kept that gameplay into when he returned. He's just a lazy clone, and should honestly just be cut altogether.
I remember that one "Hoes mad" image from the final shot of the trailer, funny as hell
Hopefully we get Shez and Alear in Smash 6
Personally crossing my fingers for Alfonse representation
Maybe Alear could replace Corrin if they cut characters again?
Alear is definitly not my first pick as they are super generic but shez would definitly have unique gameplay with super fast attacks
I like how smashers say they want original fire emblem characters yet when asked which ones to get rid of for the next smash game, it's always Robin, Corrin or Byleth
Who's saying axe Robin? Corn and Byleth I get. No one actually likes Corn in Fates, and no one asked for them. And Byleth just made the FE representation issue worse. But I haven't seen anyone saying to get rid of Robin, one of the few non-swordy characters of the roster (yes, he uses a sword, but he primarily focuses on magic and the durability system from the franchise, which also extends to his Levin Sword).
@@espurrseyes42 I've seen a decent amount of people wanting Robin to get cut in the next smash game. But yeah, obviously less than Corrin and Byleth. Most of them bitch about him because he's a zoner character.
@@Julv_
Ah. So Skill issue rather than representation issue. Got it.
@@espurrseyes42 Yeah, pretty much
This might be one of the few videos on Fire Emblem in smash that I have ever seen that doesn't belittle or put down people for being excited or happy for them being in smash, especially for cases like Byleth. I completely understand that some people are tired of FE in smash and that seeing a FE character as the final slot in the first fighters pass was kinda annoying to them. For me however, I was absolutely over the moon that they were in since right before they released, 3H became my favorite FE game. Decided to go online and see what everyone else thought and it seemed like everyone and their mother was hating on them, going after and attacking people that said they liked Byleth or were glad they were in, something I wouldn't wish on anyone. To make matters worse to this day, albiet not as much, you still have people upset about it and be overly annoying about it, acting as if a character in smash killed one of their family members. Overall, I love FE and I'm glad Byleth is in smash as they're one of my favorite characters ever, but the reactions and actions from the community were absolutely miserable. Also in any later smash game if they are to bring back any FE character, I sincerely hope they do not cut Byleth, one because I really like them, and two, I don't think they would cut the main avatar character from their most popular FE game.
Honestly, how would 3 houses play out if Byleth just choofed off with the main relics?
It's not that there were too many FE characters. It's just that there so many better characters than the ones they chose.
They should've picked Gatekeeper in Byleth's stead, nobody could've argued with that...... and Azura could've been a more interesting pick than Corrin.... (And honestly, I'd ditch Chrom any day of the week in favor of Lyn, we already had two Awakening-reps anyways)
@@tolotos95hell, they could’ve picked any of the main four Fe lords as well imo.
No, Byleths are protagonist
@@Suited_Nat My completely biased pick would be Marianne, but that'll never happen😔
Well let's look at it this way:
Marth - Basically the Face of the series
Roy - The sole rep of the GBA era
Ike - The sole rep of the Gamecube/Wii era
Byleth - The sole rep of the Switch era and the most sold FE game to date
The 3DS characters on the other hand oh yeah I agree. 3 are from the same game, 2 are echo fighters and honestly either Robin or Corrin could have been the sole reps for the 3DS era.
personally i don't hate the inclusion of all the fire emblem characters in smash. while i can agree that there is a lot of fire emblem characters without much variety in weapons, i don't care that much. i like swords as weapons and i personally don't have any characters i want in smash so whenever a dlc character dropped, i had no expectations and thus i was never disappointed. i was more focused on if the character was fun to play.
also yes, byleth buffs for the next smash bros game if they're in it ple a se
Low-key I think the problems in perception come from the four Marth clones. Corrin and Byleth are all objectively unique and Robin has a cool concept and move set even if his character is just a blank slate.
Having the split gender protags also doesn’t help making them distinct
Anyway, I hope Alear and even Shez come to Smash 6. They and Corrin are my FE holy trinity
As a huge Fire Emblem fan, I never give any controversial opinions on the Fire Emblem fighters. The controversy surrounding Fire Emblem in Smash Bros. is nothing but a complete 100% lie to me. I’m a defender for the series and it’s representatives in Smash Bros. When I watched Corrin and Byleth’s reveal trailers, I was excited and gave them good reviews. I played a lot of Fire Emblem games including spin-offs, also excluding Japan exclusive ones.
The UA-cam comments for the Byleth reveal shortly after it was uploaded are something I'll never forget. People were trying REALLY hard to be optimistic about it and not say something negative. There was a lot of "Haha this trailer is so funny, Sakurai is a master of trolling!". I don't even know where they got that from. Nothing about the reveal is a troll. He just revealed a character the same way he did many times before 💀
I've always had a good laugh whenever someone acted like FireEmblem/Sword-wielding characters weren't allowed on SSB. They made up their own rule and acted like Sakurai felt the same way lol
SSB has always been about videogame characters. That's like the one rule: the character has to originate from a vg. (and that they should be fun I believe)
It doesn't matter what weapon they use/if they use one, and yet some people thought they dictated that "we can only have so many characters using a sword" etc. I remember some kid threw a tantrum and destroyed his Switch/SSBU cartridge because of Byleth's inclusion, which is hilariously pathetic and says more about him than the game or character.
"Too many sword users" is not a valid argument and holds no weight.
"Too many FE characters" is not a valid argument and holds no weight. Pokemon has more, even Mario since while DK/Wario/Yoshi have their own franchises, they are still considered part of the Mario IP and appear in every Mario Party/Sports/Kart games.
Honestly, it all came down to people projecting themselves onto Sakurai and thinking that their choices for potential characters are the same as his.
"I don't like FE therefore there's too many and this or that character should be replaced with MY favourites in order to become a good game." basically.
FE is a popular IP and at the end of the day, SSB is a Nintendo property featuring primarily Nintendo characters. People kept assuming only third-party characters were allowed to join, that's on them.
Sure, Byleth could've been the first to join, but the negative reaction is pathetic. If we ever get another SSB game, I would assume they cut down on third-party representation and focus on Nintendo characters, like in Brawl.
Edit: if anything, I wish they add more Zelda rep in the next title that we may or may not get.
Yeah, Zelda has way too few. And half of them are link
Mario and Pokemon are the best-selling franchises in history. FE isn't even close to their popularity and it's still niche.
"Too many sword users" is a valid argument and has weight given that all these similar looking swordies make the FE roster look too homogenous, making them have a boring set of fighters that, to some degree, play the same.
"Too many FE characters" is a valid argument and has weight because Fire Emblem ain't PKMN and Mario. Those are franchises that were, are, and will continue to be Nintendo's Flagships. They have mass appeal/popularity and huge sales numbers, something FE didn't have before Awakening, and still doesn't have. A cute 3M or so on recent games is nothing compared to what Ninty's Flagships made back in the day and make even today. You're kinda stupid, comparing a niche formerly JP-only strategy RPG franchise that's ONLY relevant because of Smash to franchises known across the globe that made Smash relevant.
While I was never an NPC who was disgusted by Byleth's inclusion, I do agree that his/her inclusion was a bummer, like, a first party character in a pass full of Third parties
Let's be honest, it was likely to happen, soon or lately Sakurai would place an FE rep in the roster, the issue was how and when, also, Nintendo has authority to include its own IPs on the game, in that case, Min Min From ARMS and Pythra from XC2 (tho they should have been in the base roster since their games came way before FE3H)
Maybe people would not be salty if Byleth's entrance was something like Piranha plant (not official part of the FP1 and a gift as a prelude for FP2).
Of course, what I found really despicable is how the fanbase reacted, like, it's okay to hate byleth, what is NOT OKAY is to death threat Sakurai and those who liked Byleth, like, you are barely different from K-Pop stans or Zack Snyder Stans.
That being said, f*ck this fanbase, and I wish for more swordies, so they get to piss off more.
I do honestly understand why it would frustrate people, but I also think most of the FE characters in Smash absolutely deserve to be there.
FE characters are always popular in Smash, so the controversy is really surface-level. Roy (clone) was brought back by popular demand, Corrin is popularly used in both games she's in, and Byleth followed suit in Ultimate.
Well, haters can breathe easy for a while. Alear will not be added.
Being honest they probably won't, not only they are unpopular by the casual audience but also the time for promotion has passed
I wasn't into FE at the time, but I was super hyped by Corrin's introduction because he (yes, I'm that guy) has dragon powers. Didn't care about the game and I still haven't played Fates to this day - he was a DRAGON with a SWORD and that's AWESOME!
My only FE game is Blazing Sword on Wii U and I regrettably still haven't beaten it. I'm trying to get back into Fire Emblem though and I'm considering the 3DS games. For whatever reason, I think that Echoes sounds like fun.
Rather have a real dragon like Tiki than a mary sue half vampire, half angel, half god, half plot armor creature.
Echoes is very good imo. I think it's not the best introduction to the series, but it's still a very good game (minus the outdated map design.) I can't in good conscious recommend Fates as an entry point, mainly because as an intro Birthright is too easy, Conquest is too hard, and Revelations is no longer legally available.
@@firenze6478 That might be difficult because a real FE dragon could be too big or too powerful. The reason Ridley works is because his size matches his NES appearance.
I don't think a smaller FE dragon would be as simple???
@@orangeslash1667 tiki’s awakening dragon form, which is also an assist trophy isn’t that big.