4g63 Balance Shaft Elimination - bearing modification
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- Опубліковано 5 гру 2011
- This is the first part of a two part series about balance shaft elimination on 4g series engines. This video details the bearings, the other video will cover the front case modifications. I've already got a low-def video of the front case mods, and I plan to re-shoot that one in HD when I'm in the assembly phase. It's linked in the video.
The balance shafts are designed to cancel out harmonic vibrations caused by combustion and the spinning rotating assembly. They may offer a greater degree of comfort to the driver and passengers, but with that comfort comes a price.
Often, when a 4g63 timing belt gives up, it's because the balance shaft belt breaks or comes loose and takes the timing belt out with it. When that happens, it can total your pistons, valves, damage the crankshaft, wrist pins, timing belt tensioner and crank angle sensor. Basically, it can total your motor. The balance shafts also have a combined weigh over 10 lbs and both are driven off the timing belt making them additional and heavy rotating mass. If you've got a lightweight flywheel but still have balance shafts, you have your priorities mixed up.
So here's what you do with the bearings. It's easy. You can do this at home. You CAN do it with the motor in the car, BUT DON'T. You must enjoy punishment to do this like that.
The end result will slightly increase your oil pressure, but usually not enough to cause concern unless you have a full-circumference bearing turbo, ball bearing turbo--with your oil feed coming off the oil filter housing. The head feed would be better in that case because it's regulated at 15 PSI. - Авто та транспорт
Very well thought out and informative video. Thanks for making it clear and concise enough that even the T00nerz can grasp what is being portrayed.
I have just finished my 7 bolt forged build, these videos are ideal for anyone DIY, keep up the good work and look forward to the updates.
I have a Lancer Turbo here in the UK, it has the 2.0 4G63 turbo engine in it, removing the counter rotating balance shafts also gives around 6 extra bhp, plus it negates the issue of when a belt snaps causing all manner of problems.
God vid, and you're right, it's a hell of a job.
How's your 4g63 sohc EX2000 Turbo now? Did you use shorter timing belt when you did a balance shaft delete?
@@4g63_Everything the balance shafts run off 2 different and smaller belts, so the cam belt remains the same as before, when they are deleted they give more power and its not really noticed on the engine smooth running.
They need to be done correctly otherwise it can throw the engine out of harmonic balance, ( I'm led to believe, not sure if true though) so total removal and blanked off.
@@4g63_Everything the engine needs to come out of the car. I've had a balance shaft belt snap in the past, it sounds like a big end failure and makes a lot of noise and can damage the engine.
Its a good idea to remove them from the sohc 4g63 engine.
just did this same mod. thanks so much for putting this up. best tutorial ive seen!
turns out...last person who did up my engine...did not put in a spacer behind one balance shaft sprocket. oil leaked out bad, bearing siezed and the secondary belt snapped. NEARLY took out the main belt (was heavily damaged). i did the taredown to inspect the low oil pressure problem and found this!
dude you sound like an auto shop teacher or mitu dealer tech you should be making big money. you have the best detailed videos I have ever seen
That is geniuses! I'm never disappointed when watching one of your DIY vids. Your the man Jafro.
Took me a while to get that inside bearing set. I tried two times before and split the hearing both times. Once because I tried to go with a socket on hand that was not the same size as the bearing and the second was because I went to hammering on it before it was set in there straight.
Well third times a charm I’m gonna slap my beast back together now!
this video is awesome
thanks. im removing my 6 bolt shafts this week. just having them
already cost me a head
Well I just want to thank you for yet again a great video! I will say that I went out and tried this method yesterday with slightly less success than you. It's obvious that you've done that before :) I did get the bearings out but mine were far from reusable. Keep the videos coming, i'll watch everyone of them.
Great video! thanks a mil. im doing this on my evo right now. i know what im doing and the only reason i searched for this is im doin it with the motor in the car and couldnt figure out the best way to get the old bearing out in order to flip them 180 degrees. thanks for that balance shaft trick because the flat head screwdriver was just not working..lol. Thanks again. keep up the good work!
Another ACE production by the master of these kinds of video, you really are the best at this kind of thing. :-)
thanks, i'll keep that in mind. What a lot of guys I know run now is a stock shaft that has been turned down on a lathe to remove the weighted portion. Then it reinstalls just as normal. A bit more weight, but very reliable.
The shaft falling out unfortunately caused my engine to lose a lot of oil pressure, I thought it was just the sending unit as that is pretty common, but once that dropped the head pressure got pretty low. Oh well, time for new bearings :P
I like how you switched from mountain dew in this video to Monster energy drink in later videos :D
An addition to the "balance shaft bearing removal technique".My 318 Mopar motor had divots chunked out of the cam.From the lifters sticking open I read. I assured myself that the cam bearings would be OK since I read that they never wear years ago, I was broke and didn't want to buy a cam bearing tool and nobody rented them. But no siree Bob, there were grooves plowed into the bearings. It was as heart rending as realizing that I actually did buy a FIAT and it wasn't just a bad dream. Anyway, I had a half inch diameter threaded rod three feet long. I scrounged it from somewhere thinking it might be useful someday. Then I had a big socket, half inch drive, and luckily a big nut which fit right into it and threaded onto the rod which located the socket, so as to center it on the threaded rod. The socket was backwards. Then I had scrounged some huge thick washers. I think from when the electric linemen erect those crucifixes they hang wire from. These washers were an almost exact fit in the bores of the cam bearings, just slightly too large. So I mounted the washers onto the threaded rod, and spun the rod around while leaning the washers on my belt sander since I don't have a lathe. That whittled the washers down and allowed me to chamfer the edge of the washers, fatter where they contacted the cam bearings. I also had to belt sander some flats onto the threaded rod because I didn't have enough nuts to double nut the whole thing together when it was time to use it. There was another nut clamping the washers to the reversed socket. Then since the socket almost located this assembly inside the cam bores, but not quite, I wrapped the socket with masking tape to make a Rube Goldberg device slightly more solid. Anyway, it worked. The two pound sledge hammer propelled it. I couldn't damage the block, that's why the extra care. I couldn't do the rearmost cam bearing because the engine was still in the Jeep. A hunk of garden hose maybe 3/16 inch was needed around the threaded rod to locate the washers too. The washer needed grinding as the thing progressed into the motor. The tricky part was when I installed one of the bearings wrong and had to drive it back out with this funky setup. Trying to slip parts of it into place and assembling it inside the block. (I had the oil hole misaligned.) I used a weight lifting plate for a slide hammer on the threaded rod! But it ran OK afterwards till an old bag crashed into it and totalled it.
One of my friends bought a FIAT Spider in high school. He got the tag, "HU FIATD". True story! Making tools is the mark of a true mechanic. Same person I'm talking about owned several obscure vehicles like 50's era Volkswagens, '60's era Jeep Commander, Land Rovers and even the 104th Mustang ever built... and everything that inspired me to make my own tools came from his example of necessity.
Sorry... 1968 Jeepster Commando. Even more obscure.
Hey what kind of Mic do you use for your voice overs? I am putting a TON more effort into my videos and I want to start doing voice overs because to me it seems easier to explain what I want to say after I shoot the video! And as always great video bud!
love the vidoes! question the 4G64 has philips m8 bolts on the block that lead to the oil holes for the rear shaft bearings, could you just remove that place a longer bolt in there to block the oil galley?
In Egypt we just get rid of the bancers in most cases the balancer bearing rotate in the block hole and you can't make machinning by boring machine because the other end is sealed therefore we simply don't fix them by a very simple modification
In my early 63 days, I totally understood & agreed w/the idea behind the BS removal. I have now taken the opposite view and consider it a big mistake. Mitsu didnt just add the BS for creature comfort, they are there to reduce some serious, damaging harmonics that can shorten the life of your build
Interesting. I'm new to the 4G63, but have heard it was done due to something with the way the engine and trans were set up? I know Honda F series has them and the engine is set up the same way, but spins counter clockwise and lots remove there's.
I got a nicely built 4g and it still has the balance shaft I think, only reason I say I think is because with poly mounts it idles hella rough.
Also if there harmonics are bad what about a harmonic balancer? Like a fluidamper or ATI
this is the same engine thats going into the GSX, its getting a fluidamper
good engine will have no bad harmonics and if you affected the harmonics of engine by removing BS then that engine has been already toast
this is helpful, i'm going to be putting in a full length shaft on my 7 bolt, the previous owner put a stub shaft in and it came unbolted from the gear and dropped into the pan :( . I figured you'd have made a video on this already, thanks!
2:33 LOOOL i want to see that hammer action!! BTW thanks for the video!
Hi Jafro - cheers for all the great vids - just the level of detail and experience I need been subbed a while now. I'm rebuilding a RWD 7bolt 4G63 SOHC8V and dropping it in a Honda S800 coupe, I was wondering if a balance shaft delete is safe at higher revs - I'm looking at an Aisin Amr500 supercharger and curious if it'll be ok. Keep em coming man love your work mate 👍🏻
What would happen if I used the standard size head gasket with so much taken off the head?
also I was looking to upgrade the turbo and few other things. When finished whats the most cost efficient way to get the car tuned?
great video
o.k. so I am really wondering if the AMS kit is a real need compared to going a lot cheaper with say as with the Mitsu stub shaft. Is the oem stub shaft really going to support the pump gear like the AMS? I have heard bad things about the stub shafts but I know the oem one is better than cheap stubs. idk please gimme your idea on it.
Jafro did you rotate the rear shaft Bering that is on the deeper end 180 or did it go in the same way it came out
@Jafromobile I always say use Cheez Whiz if it works. I rarely ever tell anyone that I don't use cheez whiz myself. Good video.
did i read something somewhere about one of the shafts driving the oil pump? sure dont look like it in your FANTASTIC video. what is the oil pump driven from on these things?
ive got a 4G63B to rebuild sooner or later, looking for a little more spunk without a turbo with the build so starting with better carb and the balance shaft removal :)
is this capable for any 4g motor? im rebluiding a 4g69 in my ralliart and i've heard of an elmination kit. should i do the kit? or pull the balance shafts out? i already have them out but if i were to keep it out how do i block the hole where the shaft comes out?
Just got a 4G63 that has no oil pressure @ head. First thing I suspected was poor execution on a balance shaft removal. I know what I'm checking first.
Hahaha, keep it greasy, and if its squeaky grease it twice! I like that, and love your videos, any progress on your colt/mirage build? I presume this engine is going back into the eclipse? Any way great stuff and good luck with it:-)
Reducing the entire engine/balance shafts' friction coefficient with a ceramic treatment would put less strain on the belt; thus, no need to remove it. How much hp. is required drive the balance shaft? Is there a gain on the dyno once its' removed? Nice solid block it is.
If you can grab the front shaft and make it clunk, does this mean the bearing is bad? I bought the car as a project (bent valves) and my friend noticed this while we were going together with everything. Would it be possible to leave the rear shaft in place and remove the front belt in order to drive the car to his shop 3 miles away so we can eliminate the shafts and tap the front hole fora plug? I don't have the space to do this job in my driveway.
Oppps Also (1) if the oil pressure goes below a predetermined amount of oil pressure, does it shut down the fuel pump to prevent damage to the engine? safety (2) Also does it have a bypass in it oil pump system in case of a plugged oil filter? ty again.
Jafro, Can you do the balance shaft delete on a 2001 eclipse gs 2.4,4g64.I see kits that say they work on 4g64 blocks but none are compatible when checking via compatibility charts .The timing on my block is on the passenger side would that be why?please help
Wouldn't the harmonic vibrations be disastrous on a daily driver?
I have a new oil pump for a 2005 , 2.4 mitsu eclipse , my car is actually a 2006 will I still be able to use it an modify it slightly where the crankshaft sensor bolts up like with a die grinder an will it fit ? I don't see any follow up video on this
Reminds me of old times :)
I love you bids. What state are you in. I would love to see some of your genius.
U spun a bearing now ur replacing the block with a 6 bolt same happened to me I rebuilt the old 7 bolt but I don't think it'll last long I also have a spare 6 bolt block laying around it'd be awesome if u could help out with the 6 bolt bottom end 7 bolt head swap I know ill need a cas do the headbolt holes to 12mm etc but id like to see more from what u got 2 ur videos are very helpful and informative!
thank you sir all engine timings mark setting 👆
Yes, it's a tough call. One less belt to break is the right step. Why they don't run the balance shaft off a crank gear with a large balanceshaft gear is beyond me. You'd think the balanceshaft would give the engine more momentum, like a flywheel. But it dain't work that way in this case.
would this work on a 4d55?
I can't find part two help me.
Long live 4G63.
Do you turn the bearing 180 degrees out on the other balance shaft that gets totally removed also?
Nah. One shaft is hollow and it oils the bearings. The other shaft (the one I show here) is oiled through the block. If you use the right stub shaft, it blocks off the oil supply. I have a video called "4g63 oil system" that explains it. ;)
Hey @jafro I had a question I’m building a motor and was wondering if I run I pick in the hole of the bearings should I feel a hole like if it is a oil feed . I ram my pick in the hole and it feels like if there is no hole through my not the block … does this mean the bearing was already rotated for balance shaft delete .
Very likely. The bigger tell would be the absence of balance shafts, but if you got a pile of parts and you're trying to make sense of them, that's the best bet. You can see a plug on the outside of the block for where the balance shaft oil gallery was drilled. To plug the outside of the block, the Phillips-head looking threaded plug was sealed and screwed in. If the hole isn't in alignment with that pin, that's another tell. If the balance shaft bearing is scored and damaged and doesn't line up with the hole, option C is it spun the balance shaft bearing. The damage would be obvious, but if the bearing is pristine, it was rotated for block-off.
Jafro, any reason not to use a 32mm socket to drive out the old bearings?
I have the oil pump, timing belt and balance shaft delete on hand and enough in my bank for a rebuild kit, waterpump and timing belt tensioner so it looks like I'm finally doing a rebuild on my van.
MM95 Good question, you didn't give me the context of what you're doing, so here comes all the possibilities in case it will help others... Sockets usually have rounded edges, so they slip more. You need a really well defined edge like what's on that shaft to knock it out. You can drive them out with a socket, sure, but you need a proper bearing driver to install them if the balance shafts are ever going back in it.
If you wish to preserve the shaft, but the balance shaft isn't going back in, go ahead and wail on 'em with anything that fits. You need a socket that's smaller than the hole, but bigger than the bearing and that's really hard to match. Every socket set is different. If you go smaller than the bearing, those rounded edges will cause galling on the bearing bore as it mushrooms the bearing.
If you're keeping the balance shafts and you drive in new bearings with a socket, it can cause a high spot in the bearing face that leads to premature bearing failure and seizure of the balance shaft.
Without balance shafts and with bearings re-installed blocking the holes, beating the bearing in and out with a socket it can cause misalignment of the bearing resulting in an oil pressure leak.
If you don't have the proper tool or one with a good edge to drive the bearing out (or destroying the balance shaft as I'm demonstrating)... you must take extra caution not to damage the bearing bore. Often times auto parts stores will rent out bearing drivers. Those are usually very worn out tools, but they're the [worn out] right tools for the job if they have them.
If the balance shaft bearings are okay, and the engine is keeping its balance shafts after the rebuild, I just leave them alone. I can measure an installed bearing, and I can measure a balance shaft, and I can calculate the difference splitting that result in half to get my oil clearance and make sure I'm right... but there's less of a chance a replacement bearing will be in spec and aligned properly than the new ones that are well broken in. You can not measure for taper to detect an alignment problem once the bearing is installed. You can't plastigauge it either. You can measure your oil clearance, and even if it's at the end of spec, I leave it alone. DSMs aren't famous for having low oil pressure because of having a balance shaft.
Failure of a balance shaft bearing will result in the same damage or worse than breaking a balance shaft belt. The broken balance shaft belt gets tangled and snaps the timing belt because it's inside a sealed timing cover with nowhere else to go. A 4g63 is an interference engine. What that means is... it will basically take one of everything in the valvetrain and rotating assembly to fix correctly if the timing belt breaks.
That's why if I'm ever re-using the balance shafts, I just leave them alone.
Anything else I can add to help you get there? :)
Thank you good sir, I will take a look at the tool box and at the bearings to see if I have anything that is close enough to work, I wouldn't mind modifying some tools. If I don't have anything reasonably close I will go head and rent the proper tool.
I am simply doing the elimination so will be nstalling new bearings 180 out to block the oil holes. My whole build is very low end, just to get the 4g64 powered van back on the road. The only "upgrades" are going to be balancing the rod-piston combos, the crank if it needs any other machining and obviously deleting the balance shafts.
MM95 You can whack the bearings out and back in with sockets, but goop the bearings with anaerobic sealant. Saves you the tool rental, but use the sealant... No leaks. ;)
Hello my friend... Firstly thank you for such a wonderful informative video.... i have a 4G63T .... its a 7 bolt... had the oil pump serviced, new bearings(complete) installed and got the crank shaft polished..... the engine was damaged.... iam guessing its cause of crank walk maybe.... Could you give me what i should do to prevent this from happening again? as maintaining a 4G63T in Fiji is really not that cheap..
What this does, as described in google searches, It eliminates the need for a balance shaft. This diverts some vibration of the block, and its not really needed. It is a part that is known to break, and it breaks in the vicinity of the timing belt. This, would result in major work. This is a preventative measure - Not a performance mod.
Can you do this procedure engine in car?
So if you got rid of the balance shaft, won't the timing belt length needs to be a little different ?
Nope. The rear balance shaft is driven by the oil pump gear, and the front shaft has its very own belt.
hay just wanted you to know your vid has been a great help.iv never messed with the mitcubishi alway had the ford and chevy,so got a good deal on a 03 mitch with a 2.4,it sounded like a rod was going to come out anytime,so i removed the oil pan and there lay a balincer shaft bearing in the pan,so even with the motor in the car i done the balincer shaft and oil shaft removel ,went ahead and changed the mains and rod bearings,all with the motor in the car.runs fine.thanks for the great vids
my 2002 galant balance shaft is like hard to spin so it rip apart the belt. what can i do ???eny suggestions..thanks
do like me. my balincer shaft bearing was in the bottom of the oil pan,so done like the vid here ,i got reed of both ,the balincer shaft and the oil shaft
tom johnston I had the same thing happen to me - rear bal shaft bearing loose on the shaft when I pulled it out lol. Now I have the problem of putting a new bearing in its place because the hole in the block for the bearing is ground out just enough that a new bearing doesn't fit tight. What did you do for your delete? I'm pretty sure that rear bearing has an oil hole, so how to block that off so I still have oil pressure? Thanks
@Mr04fordranger or use green lock tight.
nice :D
Hi my oil light has been flickering at idle of 500-600 rpm for 4 years or so,(2002 eclipse 2.4,with now, 168,000 kilos) i bought this car used, (i replaced a few oil sending unit over the years,due to leaks from the electrical plugin withing the sending unit itself. I just recently had a problem with this balancer shaft.whilst driving along the highway My car stripped teeth of the idler belt and pieces took out cps sensor and it shut down.after investigating, i am certian the idlershaft bearings were worn so i decided to NOT replace the idler belt because the shaft is very loose on these worn bearings. i just replaced the timing belt only and the car was fine. i have noticed the oil light staying on more and more over these,6 months later and it was teapping on one lifter only for months, a few days a go it shut down ,it seems like it is a seized engine,it wont turn over at this point.should i rebuild this engine you opinions would be greatly appreciated 100--- 100 on your video.
I remove the rocker 4g63 have to make any modification to the crankshaft
friederik garmendia Not for the crankshaft. Also, you can remove the camshaft without removing the rockers. The cams sit on top. Maybe I am misunderstanding your question?
you should get a dead blow or a lead mallet.... and diet MD? but as always, great vid!
you should use an anaerobic sealant. to make sure there no bleed out. i work at a machine shop and. i had many of these bleed out oil after doing the same thing u did. but never happend agian ofter useing the sealent. and you should do that during final because during honing and boring. metal can back fill the cavity. so you want all the oil passages to be open during final cleaning. and as the seal go to an automotive maching shop. and ask for sleeve lock. its used to seal wet sleeves.
u da man
Hello my friend , I need your help , please!. Let's see , when I turn on my car ( Mitsubishi RVR sports gear x3, engine 4g63) the oil pressure is 80 psi for 800 RPM (for 65°F). but when the engine starts to heat, the oil pressure drops to 0 psi (200°F). What do you think ????
Note: my Metales are new.
The easiest place to start is by changing the oil pressure sending unit. (this is if you don't have the correct tools/knowledge to test it, they're typically very cheap)
@@yusuffrahman2858 I already did it.
Respond to this video... other then that man your on the right track
i have done this job in my kia sorento 2009 i eliminated the oil holes by a stick .. but every body tell me that iam crazy to doing thatu wanna ask jafromobile
Nah man. Unless it's a threaded stick in a threaded oil gallery torqued in place, then oil pressure will blast that thing out. Then you'll end up with low oil pressure. That would hurt all of your other bearings.
This is the safest cheater method I would ever risk taking on my own equipment. I bought all the rare out-of-production Mitsubishi balance shaft tools now, but this video proves you don't need any of them on a balance shaft delete. You only need the balance shaft tools if you're replacing and re-using the balance shafts. If it's just a delete, gimmie a hammer, a socket, and a half inch extension and the old balance shaft. If you're careful driving them in and out, you can re-use the old bearings to do it, so it's a $0 job just like the stick. :)
Jafromobile yes i put a threaded sticks because i didn't see your video when i diid the job . ...your method is easier than the mine
I have a question.?
Why some 4 cylinder motors don't have a balance shaft and no harmonic balancer pouley
Does the harmonic balancer eliminate the vibrations and save the engine from domages .
I still don't see it at 4:54
So you eliminated both balance shafts?
Yessir. It's what you SHOULD do if you're doing the job. It will affect your oil pressure to remove both, but so will leaving the front shaft in because it's not spinning if you just disable it.
The rotation of the front shaft affects how the oil film layer flows out and how much it leaks. I'd rather take other measures at the oil filter housing and the head oil port to make oil pressure more predictable than have a shaft that may leak more or less depending on G-forces, but plenty of people get away with removing only one and disabling the other. Leaving it in there is the lazy way to do it, and one that can have consequences.
***** Thank you for the reply sir!
+Jafromobile will you make any videos on porting the ofh? Thanks
I did! I have an all-encompassing OFH video that covers that mod as well as every model of the DSM OFH. ;) It's called "4g63 Oil Filter Housings".
THANKS MAN!
Yep, dont be like me and have the Elimination kit sitting around for months and have a balance shaft belt break and go into the crank timing sprocket and cause it to jump time at 8K and bend every valve in the head :(
Some people worry that using the old bearings might leak. Im gona throw some, permatex aviation sealant in there. Never have to worry. lol
I wish you had an LS engine in your car lol.
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Are you from Alabama?
NOPE! One of the best friends I've ever had is from there, though. You probably hear neighboring Georgia in there...
@@Jafromobile oh ok. I didnt know if the mobile part of your name was mobile AL. Im just south of Birmingham now and grew up in mobile. Love the videos. Hopefully soon ill have another 2nd gen gst or gsx. Ill be watching your videos over and over.
Two... I have two best friends from AL. I failed. Both absolutely dynamite people. I'd take a bullet for either one of them, but I'd prefer a pie to the face instead. I'm making some great videos with a 2g right now. They'll be here for you!
@@Jafromobile awesome
calidad
OCD is a benefit
surly the balance shaft is there for a good reason. Removing it would reduce engine life and cause problems in the long run.
Bad ass video bro!!! So much info that dsmers can now use/ do. ♥DsM \m/[_]\m/
Funnies fuckin mechanic video ever!!! Lol
You fast like n sub yoll
Camera is making me nautious
this video for some reason reminds me of those how to basic videos
Gross diet mtn dew!?
these balance shafts shouldn't be removed, it will reduce engine lifespan