Got all that Wingwing stuff too, including the new F16 ICP. And I play with Pimax Crystal. Muscle memory makes me hit the right buttons and dials anyway with the VR headset on. Great immersion. Looking around inside a room with screens just doesn’t do it for me anymore.
Awesome man, super happy it work for you. My intention was to give a different perspective not vr headset vs headset as much as it is to have my setup. I hope people just look into this as an honest reference not the be all end. Shit is expensive so I'd like to just let others know unfiltered
Thank you for comparing the two predominant “realities” of flight simulation these days. You really have to make a choice about what is the most important aspects of your sim experience. Is it the visual immersion of VR or the more tactile experience of having these wonderful controllers that are available to us. It is a bittersweet dilemma to be sure. I, personally, have chosen VR as my preference … I do have a HOTAS and limited controllers setup that are a mixture of brand names that provide me with enough switches/buttons but remain generic enough so I can fly jets, helos or prop planes without switching hardware. That was the choice I eventually settled on. PS Love the big screen setup!
Thanks for the kind words and respecting what I made this video for. It's not to tear pimax down, nor try to influence anyone's decision. But neither pimax or winwing talk about the other side. I knew I was gonna get some haters out of this but I did it for the dcs community as a whole, not to help sell products. Glad you watched it and hope to see you in the sky!
thank you I was really considering getting winwing panels as I thought VR and the panels would enhance it but you have convinced me not to bother wasting the money for the additional panels
I'd say it's just a different experience for both sides. If you love VR, no amount of panels will make you switch. And once you fly with my setup, it's fun to put on the VR for the visual experience but it really hinders how to fly and plan situations. Maybe one day the pass-through tech will be great as the vario xr4 but cost effective as well. But either way, regardless of VR or my setup, it's really about the pilot and how well they know their aircraft and weapons. Beyond that, we'd be fly in ace combat on an Xbox
Nice setup (including the studio). As a VR user with custom button boxes, I agree there's always going to be that point of friction with physical inputs. I hear what you're saying about speed and proficiency with your cockpit, and even in VR I'm much faster with my 100+ input box than without. Only thing I can offer, particularly with using MFDs in VR: I made mine with encoder knobs at the corners instead of rocker buttons, and I made the center button on each side a depressed dobber, so if I want to quickly hit a button, I basically land my fingers on the correct side/corner and can tell instantly which button is which because I've got these cues, plus the knobs act as physical hard stops at each corner to anchor off of. This is much quicker than braille/tactile markings. P.S. having a dobber in the center of each side means it can support MFDs up to 7 buttons a side like that nuisance of an AH64 while still keeping conventional layout for 5x5.
That's awesome man, it takes a very smart person not only to solve what you have, but also to do it in this sim game and have the patience to build and test all the parts. I'm betting you're a dangerous pilot as well!
I'm in the minority that agrees with you. VR is DCS is just a pain in the ass. A good simpit with good screens is unbeatable to me, but it doesn't stop the VR sycophants from never shutting up about how awesome VR is.
@Deezle_Gaming bro, you have no idea lol. I gave the pimax one more shot and even though I did a full two restore points just in case the software got the screens messed up. Didn't matter what I did the pimax software caused windows to crash and I lost everything. Keybinds for 10 aircraft, preference files, drivers, passwords etc. Pimax absolutely blows
I agree with a lot of your opinions on VR/ Pimax and using DCS. Track IR is a lot easier to use for sure. The biggest thing VR gives you that 2D just wont is that feeling of actually sitting inside the aircraft. Also the feeing of flight, especially in the helicopters. If you like flying helo’s in DCS I think VR is the way to go and blows track ir and 2D out of the water hands down, Flying fast jets then I agree with a lot of your points and VR can be harder. I just got my Pimax Crystal and upgraded from the G2 and havent played around much with it yet. I just haven’t been able to. I do know there are some head straps out there that make it more comfortable and have counter balances on then to help. I don’t know how well they work though. Anyway, great video and I appreciate your honesty!
Thanks for the kind words! I wish I could keep the VR as an option but it's simply way too complex to swap them out. After disconnecting the crystal from my setup it took me 4 days to reconfigure my system to get everything working again. Between dcs updates, hdmi and display ports, track ir issues, windows display configuration, Nvidia control panel, winwing software, USB hubs, SRS, the way, raygun, and reshade all these things have to be configured and started in in an exact order and each peice of hardware has to be powered on and connected to a very specific port on the computer to not crash DCS. We are all insane to do all this for the sake of dropping a JDAM on a T90 and yelling pickle lol
with the quest 3 and newer VR headsets coming out using augmented reality. you can split screen your main Cockpit and the game at the same time. looks amazing and helps alot so no more needing to take off head set to look at your controls.
I'm sure one day the tech will catch up and be cost effective. But sadly, the world will be a VR world and we will end up as chair zombie NPCs with only AI generated version of us to interact with the world. But that's a little dark...
Hi, Du setzt das Gewicht des Pimax Crystal sehr in den Vordergrund. Mein Helm von dem " F-104 Starfighter" wiegt doppelt soviel. Und da hat das mit dem Dog-Fight auch geklappt.😃.
Yeah dude that's been my hesitation about hooking up VR for DCS. Too many horror stories abound. Maybe it'll be easier since I don't currently have the MIP, but that's something that'll be remedied soon
Bro, I you saw the video of me just trying to get my rig back up and working after disconnecting the pimax, you'd grab some popcorn and laugh your ass off watching me lose my mind. So happy I didn't have a hammer nearby at the time.
Give the pimax a chance you can play with the setting to get an incredible image. Also you can buy wider field of view lenses from pimax . And I suggest a balance kit from studio form. As for your issues with pimax we’ve all had that 😂 happy flying great video
I agree. I have most of the same winwing, along with collective for helos. The studio form strap is great, I had it on my reverb g2 and swapped it over. There are the DMASS speakers which are very close to the reverb's off ear but they are an add on. Also there should be a mixed reality faceplate coming in the future. For move FOV there will also be the Pimax Reality 12x which should be quite the beast. I almost went the TV route a couple of years ago, got the HP R G2 to try out VR and not going back. That said there are always pluses and minus' to each setup, so to each their own. I feel your more on the competitive side for your use so you may still be better with the monitors. I do believe VR software devs should invest time into augmented tracking situations to allow faster turn rates. One to one makes a lot of sense if your standing/walking in a space but seated it would be great to modify the turn rates of the headset for the individual.
@charlessparks3184 well said man, totally agree. Started with the G2 and loved it. But the system goes bananas and takes many hours to get back up and configured so it's just not a easy option anymore. Hope to see you in the sky!
I really did give it a chance. It just wasn't that much better than the G2 experience. Yes, the Pimax is better, but I felt the same in the G2 as far as the VR experience goes and the G2 was very light and comfortable compared to the crystal. But the real reason neither headset will never get connected is due to how incredibly difficult it is to get my system with all the winwing components to work. Certainly isn't pimax fault, but neither winwing nor pimax or and vr companies ever advertise each others side. This video was created to show the world the if that nobody talks about because you're either like me, or just VR and hotas. But you're right, there's nothing like a VR experience
Congratulations because you can afford to give yourself a top of the line setup. I agree with most of what you are saying. Your setup is far more faster then VR and your setup with head tracking is faster and easy over VR's 1 to 1 tracking So with deep respect I understand why you would stay with your Sim Pit over VR my Deep Respect is myself and maybe others are like you say you could of been like in that I can't spend that much. So I went with VR and I love it now. You tend to find ways around how to do a lot of the things you do in your Sim Pit with Virpil Button Box's 2 throttles one for fixed wing one for Helicopters That's as much as I can Spend. I Loved this Video because People Share their input with all of us on what they have. Myself I love to see people that have earned what they can afford and are kind to Share What they have done. It is so much fun to see. Thank you for a Great Video lol One thing I will Add. I have a wall of Gibson and other Guitars behind me but I went with all Digital Line 6 floor pedal's and flat response speakers and amp because I'm 68 and as a kid I played with tin toys made in post war Japan. lol todays toys are Crazy fun. Best of Fun to you Sir and Thanks for the Video.
Thanks for all the kind words! I actually used to be a musician and taught guitar bass and recording for over 20 years. Music became free and I couldn't make a living anymore so I did everything I could for 8 years from door to door sales, roofing, flip cars, work for Apple support, sell tile etc. Finally got sick of always being broke so I stopped screwing around and got into construction and started my own company. Sadly I barely play guitar anymore but now I build the amps I always wanted. Some people just assume I'm wealthy or entitled but if they knew how hard I worked to get here, they'd feel pretty stupid. I'll post a link to my music if you'd like to hear that side of me, cheers!
@@chromaticmusic Your So Right and I LOVE Working hard for all the things I have in my life I had 4 Boys (Now Men) and I cry when they tell me Dad always told us to Work Hard and do the best you can and Earn what you have and you will respect what others have been able to have doing the same. I have a old Guitar UA-cam page called Marks Guitar Lounge I would be Honored if you ever stop by (All Old Video's) and Say hello to me for fun. Thank You for Sharing the Wonderful Life Story. Best of Fun Sir Stay Happy.🥰
That's the thing the quest pro got, despite everyone bashing on it. I can see everything that's real around me and still feel in a plane. AR is the way to go and the way the headset got design it's perfect for flight hardware. I can read my tablet, I can actuate everything, I can read everything & everything run at 80fps no problem no ASW. But yeah I don't miss try to use my MFD & UFC with the Reverb G2 & I don't care how much more resolution some other hardware have. I'll say one thing on the other hand, my F-18 setup is 1:1 with the VR cockpit so clicking stuff was just muscle memory
Thanks for the information on that. Much of what I do is using the panels and screens and I mentioned that track ir is just easier on my neck. Also, there's not a headset out there that has 180 degrees FOV
great video and great setup. ive got no panels so i am hotas and reverb g2, i was not happy with difference between the pimax and my g2 ill condsider next gen of vr .. but not yet.. g2 does the trick for me still.
Couldn't agree more man, that's exactly how I felt. Kinda felt a bit ripped off by all the hype from pimax. The visuals are good, but not mind blowing over the G2. Like if someone told me the pimax was tesla plaid fast and really it was just slightly faster than my car. But truly, it was how heavy and uncomfortable the headset itself is that I couldn't enjoy myself.
Put clear rubber cabinet bumpers on the center MFD buttons. I don't have to left my headset to make sure I hit the right MFD button. I just feel it. The rest of the switches on my takeoff, combat panels etc I just know where they are.
I actually agree with what you said about setup and what you said about software setup 100%. I live that life style too.. It video like your that SAVE ME MONEY. THANKS. Question. Can I get a profile setup for f18 and f14 with and throttle and joystick . I have a virpil throttle and joystick . But in DCS, I need a list of what really of importance to starting training, in STARTUP, AA , AG COMBAT and LANDING. What in your profiles.
I'd be happy to send you my settings and profiles but I don't have the same controls as you do. My hotas is thrustmaster and DCS maps buttons to the manufacturer not to say the button. For example, on your virpil your weapon release button may be "button 32" and on mine it could be "button 12". So the settings really do take a bit of time to setup which can be an all day thing. Plus, many of us remap the buttons as we want them for reasons of jumping between different aircraft. If you spend enough time, you'll end up mapping every button later to something that works better for you than what the default is. This another reason this game is very difficult to teach. Everyone has a different setup and Flys kinda in their own way. In any event, I'd be happy to help you on Discord if you run into any tough questions
totally agree with what you've said, had the ufc/mfd setup, virpil control panels, streamdecks, trackir, and trying to use a reverb g2 felt like a huge step back. theres some amount of cool immersion factor there, but having to swing my head around to read anything (g2 sweet spots are terrible), fumbling around for my controls in the room, unable to use pen and paper if needed, just wasnt worth it. maybe maybe some day when mixed reality is really good and accessible, but im just not chasing the vr sensation that hard. glad i saw this too, since ive had several say i just needed a better vr headset and id like it more, but i just had a feeling that wouldnt really solve my issues with it.
Thanks for saying that man, really appreciate your feedback and hope others can see it that way as well. Love to fly with you, let me know what your Discord is and we should do some flying!
there is a 3d print for the mfds. it has sold lines printed on top as if brail for the blind and they are inline with the main gray buttons. also doubles as screen protector from you poking the screen while in vr. snaped perfectly in place first print
I have both setups. I find with VR I have more hours tweaking it so it works well than I have flying. Part of that's surely my fault for never wanting to turn down a single setting but it gets old trying to get it to work right.
It took me 4 full days to get my settings working again after disconnecting the pimax. So unfortunately I know exactly how 3 hours of troubleshooting and 3 minutes of flying feels like. In any other thing or game, we'd all just walk away and delete the game, but DCS is that kinda crazy that we simply have to solve it.
Did you look into the Quest 3 and the testing with mixed reality? I stayed away from Pimax due to some bad reviews and the cost. I also have the G2 and a Quest 2. So far I've been impressed with the Quest 3.
I actually looked into the vario xr4 but for that price, 4k just doesn't make sense. My reverb g2 does the trick if I want to have fun in VR but in my pit, flying missions just makes more sense this way
Still using Quest 2 but just upgraded my GPU from GTX1080ti to RTX4070 : DLAA, even if some people don't like, really made the difference! No longer the ugly white lines dancing! Now I'm thinking on upgrade to Quest 3 but still $499 plus shipping and taxes is $633! - I live outside US :( But $1500+ plus shipping and taxes is crazy!
If I was new to DCS this personal opinion of VR. Will of personal put me off. I fly all the time in VR and do not struggle with my mouse setting my plane up or teaching someone. I use the quest 3 and have no issues.
I totally agree, but as I mentioned in the video I started in VR and loved it. I waited so long for the crystal that I just ended up with this setup. After the maverick movie came out and winwing launched the topgun MIP it was a total game changer. Had that not happened in that order, I guarantee you that I'd be VR still to this day.
Hey how did you get rid of the distortion between the monitors? I´m also running 3 Screens but the left and right one have a distortion, hard to discribe but i would say it´s like they are angled...
I think it may be that you chosen 3 camera vs 1 camera in the sim app pro settings. When you first set up the screens in sim app for the 1st time it asks you which screen are gaming screens, which you would choose all 3 by checking them, then you would see the 3 ddi screens with the main monitors with a yellow bracket around them with the total screen resolution. Now it could also be a setting in dcs where you would select the total screen resolution by adding up your monitors. For example if you're running 3 1900x1080 the 1080 number wouldn't change because that's the height of the screen but 1900 times 3 would be the screen resolution you'd have to chose in dcs. 5700x1080 would be the option you'd select for example. But sim app pro adds the height of the ddi screens to the 1080 of the main screens so in the options you'll see that. I know it's confusing but just try and confirm if you're using 1 vs 3 camera and if you're on 1, try 3 or visa versa. At the end of this video there's a link to my startup that goes over all these settings. Let me know if that helps!
The FOV you showed what VR feels like is very realistic view point, not the HUGE FOV you have with your triples. Real fighter pilots DON'T have a Field of view that's much better than the view you get in VR. People think that Pimax 8KX is a realistic FOV for pilots!! in General Aviation Cessna 172 Ect, maybe or real life walking down the street maybe, but not when your flying a jet fighter or driving a racing car. The FOV of the Crsytal is more realistic of a fighter pilots/Race car driver FOV with his helmet and facemask on. Also i know many DCS World Pilots that have the full winwing kit and still run in VR they swear that you will get used to using your WinWing Kit while still in VR but yes it will take time. Reverb G2 is now a brick thanks to Microsoft killing WMR support from the latest update in windows 11, Very shortsighted decision on thier behalf i think considering how much VR is expanding as a medium these days. Sounds like you need to get a better or more USB hubs for your system to get it all working without taxing the Motherboard to power it all. Atolla are a good brand I can recommend used by myself and a few other guys in my Flight School for big kit systems. Nice review and love your Pit Most importantly Have Fun and Enjoy! New Sub for you.
Totally agree with you man! I ride motorcycles as well so I get the FOV in the helmet idea. But if I ever put a helmet on, I'd love to be in a real f18! I've also been avoiding the upgrade to 11 as well so I'll stick with 10 for as long as possible. Thanks for the information and hope to see you in the sky
If the pimax didn't cause so many problems with my system and they were hot swappable and reliable, I'd be more inclined to keep the pimax. But for the price and how damn heavy the crystal is compared to the G2, it's just not worth the hype.
Haha, yea I wish it were that easy. If you had to go through what I did to get the system back up and running, you'd punt the VR right through a window
I don't know man, once you go into VR, your beautiful setup means nothing to me.. immersion, tridimensional feeling, depth , etc.. 2D screens have nothing to do against all that.
Apple’s augmented reality headset that was just announced might be the perfect thing. We get to have depth of field and play with all of our buttons. I use my VR Microsoft flight simulator combo to practice different approaches in strange, airports or fields before I fly them for real in my airplane. With the three monitor set up, I don’t feel you can do this reliably as there’s no true depth of field. In any event, I’m frustrated by the number of the things that were discussed in this video. It’s not a perfect world, but we have it pretty good with VR.
just buy a quest 3 and use passthrough mode mod so your hands get passed through, through virtual desktop buying a pimax is never a good idea, I cant even get mine to turn on in under 45 minutes.
9:20 If you have all those cockpit controls, you can still go VR. Just choose a headset with good video passthrough, so that you can see your cockpit from VR. For example Somnium VR1 or Varjo XR-4.
I pre-ordered the VR1 because it sounded like it was going to be fairly affordable(Crystal price-ish,) it now sounds like it's going to be 3,000 Canadian dollars. VR's in a bad place. Really cool tech exists if you're uber rich, but otherwise it's hard to justify going above the Reverb G2.
I thought of the XR4, but remember that it's not just the headset, it needs to talk to DCS as well and the screens on the MFDs have to be exported to simapp pro in a very specific area to work. VR wouldn't allow this so the only real solution would be VR gloves that could flip VR switches for true immersion. I'll definitely jump on that if that ever happens
That's the future for sure. But in the end, the field of view is still something that a VR of any type still can't do. Not sure it's even possible in the future to do a headset that can do 180 degrees. There's dudes out there that build round walls and have a projector that casts the image 180 degrees in all directions, both horizontal and vertical. The cockpit is fully working replica of the A10 as well. So as much stuff as I have, it's a toy comparison to what these dudes build
Still not as big as 180 degrees and again, not trying to tear VR down. It's how I started and I loved it. But it became very difficult to spot targets in VR and I simply am more efficient in my rig as is. Does it beat the immersed feeling of VR, no. It never will. However, I left MSFS2020 to bomb stuff and do very complex missions so if I just wanted the most visually interesting and immersed flight, I'd go back to VR and MS flight sim. Either way, just thought this video was something no one talks about that needed to be addressed. Cheers!
@chromaticmusic thanks. I found it necessary in the A-10 and AH64(helos in general) to stay in VR and needed the MFDs for the modern stuff so I tried this and it worked! I play on DDCS and it gets hectic sometimes
Not in the way I'd need it to unfortunately. The big problem is that eagle dynamics doesn't work with VR companies directly nor to winwing. They all have to solve their own issues. We the end users all have to troubleshoot all our systems after the fact and unlike Xbox and ps5 consoles, everyone has a different system that can't be compared for the 1 and done solution. We all have to be a lot crazy to play DCS lol
I’m of the party that the only people who claim vr is “so much more immersive” are people who’ve never played on a good 2D setup. I have EVERYTHING and play 2D because it’s superior every way. You ever consider removing your tv’s bezels?
Thanks for the kind words man, just trying to let people know is all. Not trying to make either side look bad. Just having the zoom on the slider is why I'd never give up 2d in dcs. The bezels don't really bother me. My mind kinda tunes them out. It would be super cool to do that but I'm afraid it may break something and it just wouldn't be worth the risk. You should see some of the VR/pimax fan boys losing their shit lol.
Trust me, I've played DCS on a damn good 2D multi monitor setup with hardware (which I still use) for years. VR is a helluva lot more immersive (for me) than any 2D setup! Perhaps that's because it's as close to my real world flying as a private pilot than anything else I've experienced. So blanket statements like yours are meaningless. Like I said in a previous statement, to each their own. There is no right or wrong when it comes to personal preference dude.😂. The video is one person's experience and it was good to watch. What's good and works for him, is just that! I understood his points well.
@@redtailpilot I wasn’t referring to personal preference dude. I was referring to the actual objective benefits to using a 2D setup. • Better resolution • Better spotting • Better graphics • Better frames • Infinite ability to add peripherals. • Better “sim” possibilities • Ability to effectively use other training aids like knee boards and electronics. • Better latency • Better image quality • Full clarity • More natural • The same way every modern military sim trains their pilots Etc etc. I’m glad you like VR better. That’s great. I like VR too. I definitely agree it adds to the immersion slightly. For me, it’s not really noticeable though and all the other benefits (there’s no factual way you could refute these) out shine the drawbacks. I mean do you seriously think vr is that much more immersive than triple 75s and track ir? Regardless, play what you like. I like operating the jet with my hands on switches and not a mouse clicking imaginary buttons.
yeah but you made a blanket statement about immersion and that's subjective. I use PointCtrl finger control units in VR, so no need for the mouse to interact with the cockpit switches, radios, etc. Have fun however you prefer, just think before making blanket statements. 😂 To answer your question, I'll repeat myself....FOR ME, IT IS. Oh BTW, some branches of the Military actually use VR and PointCtrl FCU in pilot training, just saying 🤔 The creator of PointCTRL (MilesD) actually has a contract with the military!
@@d3us3xmach1na5 There's an article on THE WARZONE website (May 2021) about A-10C pilots training in VR. In fact, the picture shows a pilot flying DCS A-10C wearing a VR HMD AND using PointCTRL FCUs! The title: "A-10 Warthog Pilots Are Using The Digital Combat Simulator Video Game To Train In VR". "We are using virtual reality simulation to provide an immersive trainer for students," Air Force Major Drew Glowa, a 355th Training Squadron instructor pilot" So again.......another incorrect, blanket statement 😂
The joys of freedom of speech! Thanks for taking the time to compile this. However, I suggest you donate some of your undoubted wealth to the USAF, get your ass strapped into a fighter and find out what it's really like to operate with a 10lb helmet on your head under G. Then come back to us, still in your studio luxury, and let us know about 'immersion' and comfort.
I sure will, thanks for assuming I'm someone that somehow doesn't deserve fine things. I worked my ass off to get to where I am from being a broke musician to owning a remodeling company. I gave up my talents because music became free and had to relearn everything to be able to have the life I saw for myself. So if you have a problem with that, as Elon said, go fuck yourself
You're flat wrong, sorry, and misinforming your viewers. I have full MIP like you do (and more) along with the Pimax Crystal and use all my gear without issue. All it takes is a little time to build a bit of muscle memory and if you fly the FA18 with the MIP, you're basically interacting with what you see, even if you can't see your hands.
Sorry but not sorry. I'm not misinformming anyone as this is an unbiased and non sponsored video. Yes, I could learn braille like you and that's impressive sure. But I still have a heavy ass brick that turns 1 to 1 and doesn't have 180 FOV. I'm glad you have all the same stuff, we are both fortunate to afford all this cool stuff. But don't post I'm misinformming people simply because you don't agree. That's weak on your part
![АЛАУДИНОВ у Скабеевой: эти их ВСУ нас НЕ ДОГОНЯТ 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/an0anqU4WGQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Got all that Wingwing stuff too, including the new F16 ICP. And I play with Pimax Crystal. Muscle memory makes me hit the right buttons and dials anyway with the VR headset on. Great immersion. Looking around inside a room with screens just doesn’t do it for me anymore.
Awesome man, super happy it work for you. My intention was to give a different perspective not vr headset vs headset as much as it is to have my setup. I hope people just look into this as an honest reference not the be all end. Shit is expensive so I'd like to just let others know unfiltered
Thank you for comparing the two predominant “realities” of flight simulation these days. You really have to make a choice about what is the most important aspects of your sim experience. Is it the visual immersion of VR or the more tactile experience of having these wonderful controllers that are available to us. It is a bittersweet dilemma to be sure. I, personally, have chosen VR as my preference … I do have a HOTAS and limited controllers setup that are a mixture of brand names that provide me with enough switches/buttons but remain generic enough so I can fly jets, helos or prop planes without switching hardware. That was the choice I eventually settled on. PS Love the big screen setup!
Thanks for the kind words and respecting what I made this video for. It's not to tear pimax down, nor try to influence anyone's decision. But neither pimax or winwing talk about the other side. I knew I was gonna get some haters out of this but I did it for the dcs community as a whole, not to help sell products. Glad you watched it and hope to see you in the sky!
thank you I was really considering getting winwing panels as I thought VR and the panels would enhance it but you have convinced me not to bother wasting the money for the additional panels
I'd say it's just a different experience for both sides. If you love VR, no amount of panels will make you switch. And once you fly with my setup, it's fun to put on the VR for the visual experience but it really hinders how to fly and plan situations. Maybe one day the pass-through tech will be great as the vario xr4 but cost effective as well. But either way, regardless of VR or my setup, it's really about the pilot and how well they know their aircraft and weapons. Beyond that, we'd be fly in ace combat on an Xbox
@@chromaticmusic I think I am waiting for pass through before i get VR. Tried on oculus 2 but it was visually bad to say the least
Nice setup (including the studio). As a VR user with custom button boxes, I agree there's always going to be that point of friction with physical inputs. I hear what you're saying about speed and proficiency with your cockpit, and even in VR I'm much faster with my 100+ input box than without.
Only thing I can offer, particularly with using MFDs in VR: I made mine with encoder knobs at the corners instead of rocker buttons, and I made the center button on each side a depressed dobber, so if I want to quickly hit a button, I basically land my fingers on the correct side/corner and can tell instantly which button is which because I've got these cues, plus the knobs act as physical hard stops at each corner to anchor off of. This is much quicker than braille/tactile markings.
P.S. having a dobber in the center of each side means it can support MFDs up to 7 buttons a side like that nuisance of an AH64 while still keeping conventional layout for 5x5.
That's awesome man, it takes a very smart person not only to solve what you have, but also to do it in this sim game and have the patience to build and test all the parts. I'm betting you're a dangerous pilot as well!
I'm in the minority that agrees with you. VR is DCS is just a pain in the ass. A good simpit with good screens is unbeatable to me, but it doesn't stop the VR sycophants from never shutting up about how awesome VR is.
@Deezle_Gaming bro, you have no idea lol. I gave the pimax one more shot and even though I did a full two restore points just in case the software got the screens messed up. Didn't matter what I did the pimax software caused windows to crash and I lost everything. Keybinds for 10 aircraft, preference files, drivers, passwords etc. Pimax absolutely blows
I agree with a lot of your opinions on VR/ Pimax and using DCS. Track IR is a lot easier to use for sure. The biggest thing VR gives you that 2D just wont is that feeling of actually sitting inside the aircraft. Also the feeing of flight, especially in the helicopters. If you like flying helo’s in DCS I think VR is the way to go and blows track ir and 2D out of the water hands down, Flying fast jets then I agree with a lot of your points and VR can be harder. I just got my Pimax Crystal and upgraded from the G2 and havent played around much with it yet. I just haven’t been able to. I do know there are some head straps out there that make it more comfortable and have counter balances on then to help. I don’t know how well they work though. Anyway, great video and I appreciate your honesty!
Thanks for the kind words! I wish I could keep the VR as an option but it's simply way too complex to swap them out. After disconnecting the crystal from my setup it took me 4 days to reconfigure my system to get everything working again. Between dcs updates, hdmi and display ports, track ir issues, windows display configuration, Nvidia control panel, winwing software, USB hubs, SRS, the way, raygun, and reshade all these things have to be configured and started in in an exact order and each peice of hardware has to be powered on and connected to a very specific port on the computer to not crash DCS. We are all insane to do all this for the sake of dropping a JDAM on a T90 and yelling pickle lol
with the quest 3 and newer VR headsets coming out using augmented reality. you can split screen your main Cockpit and the game at the same time. looks amazing and helps alot so no more needing to take off head set to look at your controls.
I'm sure one day the tech will catch up and be cost effective. But sadly, the world will be a VR world and we will end up as chair zombie NPCs with only AI generated version of us to interact with the world. But that's a little dark...
Hi,
Du setzt das Gewicht des Pimax Crystal sehr in den Vordergrund.
Mein Helm von dem " F-104 Starfighter" wiegt doppelt soviel. Und da hat das mit dem Dog-Fight auch geklappt.😃.
Yeah dude that's been my hesitation about hooking up VR for DCS. Too many horror stories abound. Maybe it'll be easier since I don't currently have the MIP, but that's something that'll be remedied soon
Bro, I you saw the video of me just trying to get my rig back up and working after disconnecting the pimax, you'd grab some popcorn and laugh your ass off watching me lose my mind. So happy I didn't have a hammer nearby at the time.
Give the pimax a chance you can play with the setting to get an incredible image. Also you can buy wider field of view lenses from pimax . And I suggest a balance kit from studio form. As for your issues with pimax we’ve all had that 😂 happy flying great video
I agree. I have most of the same winwing, along with collective for helos. The studio form strap is great, I had it on my reverb g2 and swapped it over. There are the DMASS speakers which are very close to the reverb's off ear but they are an add on. Also there should be a mixed reality faceplate coming in the future. For move FOV there will also be the Pimax Reality 12x which should be quite the beast. I almost went the TV route a couple of years ago, got the HP R G2 to try out VR and not going back. That said there are always pluses and minus' to each setup, so to each their own. I feel your more on the competitive side for your use so you may still be better with the monitors. I do believe VR software devs should invest time into augmented tracking situations to allow faster turn rates. One to one makes a lot of sense if your standing/walking in a space but seated it would be great to modify the turn rates of the headset for the individual.
@charlessparks3184 well said man, totally agree. Started with the G2 and loved it. But the system goes bananas and takes many hours to get back up and configured so it's just not a easy option anymore. Hope to see you in the sky!
I really did give it a chance. It just wasn't that much better than the G2 experience. Yes, the Pimax is better, but I felt the same in the G2 as far as the VR experience goes and the G2 was very light and comfortable compared to the crystal. But the real reason neither headset will never get connected is due to how incredibly difficult it is to get my system with all the winwing components to work. Certainly isn't pimax fault, but neither winwing nor pimax or and vr companies ever advertise each others side. This video was created to show the world the if that nobody talks about because you're either like me, or just VR and hotas. But you're right, there's nothing like a VR experience
Congratulations because you can afford to give yourself a top of the line setup. I agree with most of what you are saying. Your setup is far more faster then VR and your setup with head tracking is faster and easy over VR's 1 to 1 tracking So with deep respect I understand why you would stay with your Sim Pit over VR my Deep Respect is myself and maybe others are like you say you could of been like in that I can't spend that much. So I went with VR and I love it now. You tend to find ways around how to do a lot of the things you do in your Sim Pit with Virpil Button Box's 2 throttles one for fixed wing one for Helicopters That's as much as I can Spend. I Loved this Video because People Share their input with all of us on what they have. Myself I love to see people that have earned what they can afford and are kind to Share What they have done. It is so much fun to see. Thank you for a Great Video lol One thing I will Add. I have a wall of Gibson and other Guitars behind me but I went with all Digital Line 6 floor pedal's and flat response speakers and amp because I'm 68 and as a kid I played with tin toys made in post war Japan. lol todays toys are Crazy fun. Best of Fun to you Sir and Thanks for the Video.
Thanks for all the kind words! I actually used to be a musician and taught guitar bass and recording for over 20 years. Music became free and I couldn't make a living anymore so I did everything I could for 8 years from door to door sales, roofing, flip cars, work for Apple support, sell tile etc. Finally got sick of always being broke so I stopped screwing around and got into construction and started my own company. Sadly I barely play guitar anymore but now I build the amps I always wanted. Some people just assume I'm wealthy or entitled but if they knew how hard I worked to get here, they'd feel pretty stupid. I'll post a link to my music if you'd like to hear that side of me, cheers!
ua-cam.com/video/nUAdOFHUY-o/v-deo.htmlsi=ZzrI0UpPop-CauaP
@@chromaticmusic Your So Right and I LOVE Working hard for all the things I have in my life I had 4 Boys (Now Men) and I cry when they tell me Dad always told us to Work Hard and do the best you can and Earn what you have and you will respect what others have been able to have doing the same. I have a old Guitar UA-cam page called Marks Guitar Lounge I would be Honored if you ever stop by (All Old Video's) and Say hello to me for fun. Thank You for Sharing the Wonderful Life Story. Best of Fun Sir Stay Happy.🥰
That's the thing the quest pro got, despite everyone bashing on it.
I can see everything that's real around me and still feel in a plane.
AR is the way to go and the way the headset got design it's perfect for flight hardware.
I can read my tablet, I can actuate everything, I can read everything & everything run at 80fps no problem no ASW.
But yeah I don't miss try to use my MFD & UFC with the Reverb G2 & I don't care how much more resolution some other hardware have.
I'll say one thing on the other hand, my F-18 setup is 1:1 with the VR cockpit so clicking stuff was just muscle memory
Thanks for the information on that. Much of what I do is using the panels and screens and I mentioned that track ir is just easier on my neck. Also, there's not a headset out there that has 180 degrees FOV
great video and great setup. ive got no panels so i am hotas and reverb g2, i was not happy with difference between the pimax and my g2 ill condsider next gen of vr .. but not yet.. g2 does the trick for me still.
Couldn't agree more man, that's exactly how I felt. Kinda felt a bit ripped off by all the hype from pimax. The visuals are good, but not mind blowing over the G2. Like if someone told me the pimax was tesla plaid fast and really it was just slightly faster than my car. But truly, it was how heavy and uncomfortable the headset itself is that I couldn't enjoy myself.
@@chromaticmusic also mine failed after three days 😢 so bad luck all around
@plazma1945 yeah, that's a bummer for sure
Put clear rubber cabinet bumpers on the center MFD buttons. I don't have to left my headset to make sure I hit the right MFD button. I just feel it. The rest of the switches on my takeoff, combat panels etc I just know where they are.
Smart thinking!
I actually agree with what you said about setup and what you said about software setup 100%. I live that life style too.. It video like your that SAVE ME MONEY. THANKS. Question. Can I get a profile setup for f18 and f14 with and throttle and joystick . I have a virpil throttle and joystick . But in DCS, I need a list of what really of importance to starting training, in STARTUP, AA , AG COMBAT and LANDING. What in your profiles.
I'd be happy to send you my settings and profiles but I don't have the same controls as you do. My hotas is thrustmaster and DCS maps buttons to the manufacturer not to say the button. For example, on your virpil your weapon release button may be "button 32" and on mine it could be "button 12". So the settings really do take a bit of time to setup which can be an all day thing. Plus, many of us remap the buttons as we want them for reasons of jumping between different aircraft. If you spend enough time, you'll end up mapping every button later to something that works better for you than what the default is. This another reason this game is very difficult to teach. Everyone has a different setup and Flys kinda in their own way. In any event, I'd be happy to help you on Discord if you run into any tough questions
totally agree with what you've said, had the ufc/mfd setup, virpil control panels, streamdecks, trackir, and trying to use a reverb g2 felt like a huge step back. theres some amount of cool immersion factor there, but having to swing my head around to read anything (g2 sweet spots are terrible), fumbling around for my controls in the room, unable to use pen and paper if needed, just wasnt worth it. maybe maybe some day when mixed reality is really good and accessible, but im just not chasing the vr sensation that hard. glad i saw this too, since ive had several say i just needed a better vr headset and id like it more, but i just had a feeling that wouldnt really solve my issues with it.
Thanks for saying that man, really appreciate your feedback and hope others can see it that way as well. Love to fly with you, let me know what your Discord is and we should do some flying!
there is a 3d print for the mfds. it has sold lines printed on top as if brail for the blind and they are inline with the main gray buttons. also doubles as screen protector from you poking the screen while in vr. snaped perfectly in place first print
Very cool, good middle ground solution
I have both setups. I find with VR I have more hours tweaking it so it works well than I have flying. Part of that's surely my fault for never wanting to turn down a single setting but it gets old trying to get it to work right.
It took me 4 full days to get my settings working again after disconnecting the pimax. So unfortunately I know exactly how 3 hours of troubleshooting and 3 minutes of flying feels like. In any other thing or game, we'd all just walk away and delete the game, but DCS is that kinda crazy that we simply have to solve it.
Did you look into the Quest 3 and the testing with mixed reality? I stayed away from Pimax due to some bad reviews and the cost. I also have the G2 and a Quest 2. So far I've been impressed with the Quest 3.
I actually looked into the vario xr4 but for that price, 4k just doesn't make sense. My reverb g2 does the trick if I want to have fun in VR but in my pit, flying missions just makes more sense this way
Still using Quest 2 but just upgraded my GPU from GTX1080ti to RTX4070 : DLAA, even if some people don't like, really made the difference!
No longer the ugly white lines dancing!
Now I'm thinking on upgrade to Quest 3 but still $499 plus shipping and taxes is $633! - I live outside US :(
But $1500+ plus shipping and taxes is crazy!
If I was new to DCS this personal opinion of VR. Will of personal put me off. I fly all the time in VR and do not struggle with my mouse setting my plane up or teaching someone. I use the quest 3 and have no issues.
I totally agree, but as I mentioned in the video I started in VR and loved it. I waited so long for the crystal that I just ended up with this setup. After the maverick movie came out and winwing launched the topgun MIP it was a total game changer. Had that not happened in that order, I guarantee you that I'd be VR still to this day.
Hey how did you get rid of the distortion between the monitors? I´m also running 3 Screens but the left and right one have a distortion, hard to discribe but i would say it´s like they are angled...
I think it may be that you chosen 3 camera vs 1 camera in the sim app pro settings. When you first set up the screens in sim app for the 1st time it asks you which screen are gaming screens, which you would choose all 3 by checking them, then you would see the 3 ddi screens with the main monitors with a yellow bracket around them with the total screen resolution. Now it could also be a setting in dcs where you would select the total screen resolution by adding up your monitors. For example if you're running 3 1900x1080 the 1080 number wouldn't change because that's the height of the screen but 1900 times 3 would be the screen resolution you'd have to chose in dcs. 5700x1080 would be the option you'd select for example. But sim app pro adds the height of the ddi screens to the 1080 of the main screens so in the options you'll see that. I know it's confusing but just try and confirm if you're using 1 vs 3 camera and if you're on 1, try 3 or visa versa. At the end of this video there's a link to my startup that goes over all these settings. Let me know if that helps!
The FOV you showed what VR feels like is very realistic view point, not the HUGE FOV you have with your triples.
Real fighter pilots DON'T have a Field of view that's much better than the view you get in VR. People think that Pimax 8KX is a realistic FOV for pilots!! in General Aviation Cessna 172 Ect, maybe or real life walking down the street maybe, but not when your flying a jet fighter or driving a racing car. The FOV of the Crsytal is more realistic of a fighter pilots/Race car driver FOV with his helmet and facemask on.
Also i know many DCS World Pilots that have the full winwing kit and still run in VR they swear that you will get used to using your WinWing Kit while still in VR but yes it will take time.
Reverb G2 is now a brick thanks to Microsoft killing WMR support from the latest update in windows 11, Very shortsighted decision on thier behalf i think considering how much VR is expanding as a medium these days.
Sounds like you need to get a better or more USB hubs for your system to get it all working without taxing the Motherboard to power it all. Atolla are a good brand I can recommend used by myself and a few other guys in my Flight School for big kit systems.
Nice review and love your Pit Most importantly Have Fun and Enjoy!
New Sub for you.
Totally agree with you man! I ride motorcycles as well so I get the FOV in the helmet idea. But if I ever put a helmet on, I'd love to be in a real f18! I've also been avoiding the upgrade to 11 as well so I'll stick with 10 for as long as possible. Thanks for the information and hope to see you in the sky
I have the same gear you do so I'm interested on your take.
If the pimax didn't cause so many problems with my system and they were hot swappable and reliable, I'd be more inclined to keep the pimax. But for the price and how damn heavy the crystal is compared to the G2, it's just not worth the hype.
Or just get the Quest Pro and you can see under the headset without touching it
Haha, yea I wish it were that easy. If you had to go through what I did to get the system back up and running, you'd punt the VR right through a window
Still can’t air to air refuel..
yup
remember to always bank right
I don't know man, once you go into VR, your beautiful setup means nothing to me.. immersion, tridimensional feeling, depth , etc.. 2D screens have nothing to do against all that.
Yes totally agree, once you've tryed VR there's no going back 🤗👍
@@fred2108 NOPE! 🤣
Apple’s augmented reality headset that was just announced might be the perfect thing. We get to have depth of field and play with all of our buttons. I use my VR Microsoft flight simulator combo to practice different approaches in strange, airports or fields before I fly them for real in my airplane. With the three monitor set up, I don’t feel you can do this reliably as there’s no true depth of field.
In any event, I’m frustrated by the number of the things that were discussed in this video. It’s not a perfect world, but we have it pretty good with VR.
When you have both nothing else matters.. lol haters gonna hate 😅
@@gvrose1 VR just isn't for everyone, that's just a fact. I'm soooo glad it is for me, that's for sure! 😁
just buy a quest 3 and use passthrough mode mod so your hands get passed through, through virtual desktop buying a pimax is never a good idea, I cant even get mine to turn on in under 45 minutes.
I still have my reverb g2 and love it. But it will never get hooked up to this system, but I have it still for my other computer with MSFS2020.
Well real problem is Money and Space otherwise sky is the limit :)
9:20 If you have all those cockpit controls, you can still go VR. Just choose a headset with good video passthrough, so that you can see your cockpit from VR. For example Somnium VR1 or Varjo XR-4.
I pre-ordered the VR1 because it sounded like it was going to be fairly affordable(Crystal price-ish,) it now sounds like it's going to be 3,000 Canadian dollars. VR's in a bad place. Really cool tech exists if you're uber rich, but otherwise it's hard to justify going above the Reverb G2.
I thought of the XR4, but remember that it's not just the headset, it needs to talk to DCS as well and the screens on the MFDs have to be exported to simapp pro in a very specific area to work. VR wouldn't allow this so the only real solution would be VR gloves that could flip VR switches for true immersion. I'll definitely jump on that if that ever happens
@@l8knight845 you are exactly right. For a game like dcs, the reverb is really the best out for what it offers and at the price point.
If you have a quest 3, which has passthrough cameras. You could use a third party app to achieve xr so you can get the benefits of both
That's the future for sure. But in the end, the field of view is still something that a VR of any type still can't do. Not sure it's even possible in the future to do a headset that can do 180 degrees. There's dudes out there that build round walls and have a projector that casts the image 180 degrees in all directions, both horizontal and vertical. The cockpit is fully working replica of the A10 as well. So as much stuff as I have, it's a toy comparison to what these dudes build
All the toys but you seriously haven't tried a Pimax 8KX? There's your FOV. Sure, it won't give you aspheric lens quality but the FOV is unmatched.
Still not as big as 180 degrees and again, not trying to tear VR down. It's how I started and I loved it. But it became very difficult to spot targets in VR and I simply am more efficient in my rig as is. Does it beat the immersed feeling of VR, no. It never will. However, I left MSFS2020 to bomb stuff and do very complex missions so if I just wanted the most visually interesting and immersed flight, I'd go back to VR and MS flight sim. Either way, just thought this video was something no one talks about that needed to be addressed. Cheers!
It's expensive and customers support is laughable no thanks
I've been trying to return this since the day I tried it and they are not responding lol
@chromaticmusic thanks. I found it necessary in the A-10 and AH64(helos in general) to stay in VR and needed the MFDs for the modern stuff so I tried this and it worked! I play on DDCS and it gets hectic sometimes
I think you can use a simple webcam to show all the controllers in VR
Never heard of that. But due to how close I am to the controls that would be very difficult to show them in proper scale. But that's a cool idea
there is some hand tracking in DCS right? that would help
Not in the way I'd need it to unfortunately. The big problem is that eagle dynamics doesn't work with VR companies directly nor to winwing. They all have to solve their own issues. We the end users all have to troubleshoot all our systems after the fact and unlike Xbox and ps5 consoles, everyone has a different system that can't be compared for the 1 and done solution. We all have to be a lot crazy to play DCS lol
Varjo xr 4 mixed reality just released ....and tou will be able to use everything you have 😊
For the low low price of $4000 plus shipping and tax...
I’m of the party that the only people who claim vr is “so much more immersive” are people who’ve never played on a good 2D setup.
I have EVERYTHING and play 2D because it’s superior every way.
You ever consider removing your tv’s bezels?
Thanks for the kind words man, just trying to let people know is all. Not trying to make either side look bad. Just having the zoom on the slider is why I'd never give up 2d in dcs. The bezels don't really bother me. My mind kinda tunes them out. It would be super cool to do that but I'm afraid it may break something and it just wouldn't be worth the risk. You should see some of the VR/pimax fan boys losing their shit lol.
Trust me, I've played DCS on a damn good 2D multi monitor setup with hardware (which I still use) for years. VR is a helluva lot more immersive (for me) than any 2D setup! Perhaps that's because it's as close to my real world flying as a private pilot than anything else I've experienced. So blanket statements like yours are meaningless. Like I said in a previous statement, to each their own. There is no right or wrong when it comes to personal preference dude.😂. The video is one person's experience and it was good to watch. What's good and works for him, is just that! I understood his points well.
@@redtailpilot I wasn’t referring to personal preference dude. I was referring to the actual objective benefits to using a 2D setup.
• Better resolution
• Better spotting
• Better graphics
• Better frames
• Infinite ability to add peripherals.
• Better “sim” possibilities
• Ability to effectively use other training aids like knee boards and electronics.
• Better latency
• Better image quality
• Full clarity
• More natural
• The same way every modern military sim trains their pilots
Etc etc.
I’m glad you like VR better. That’s great. I like VR too. I definitely agree it adds to the immersion slightly. For me, it’s not really noticeable though and all the other benefits (there’s no factual way you could refute these) out shine the drawbacks.
I mean do you seriously think vr is that much more immersive than triple 75s and track ir?
Regardless, play what you like. I like operating the jet with my hands on switches and not a mouse clicking imaginary buttons.
yeah but you made a blanket statement about immersion and that's subjective. I use PointCtrl finger control units in VR, so no need for the mouse to interact with the cockpit switches, radios, etc. Have fun however you prefer, just think before making blanket statements. 😂 To answer your question, I'll repeat myself....FOR ME, IT IS. Oh BTW, some branches of the Military actually use VR and PointCtrl FCU in pilot training, just saying 🤔 The creator of PointCTRL (MilesD) actually has a contract with the military!
@@d3us3xmach1na5 There's an article on THE WARZONE website (May 2021) about A-10C pilots training in VR. In fact, the picture shows a pilot flying DCS A-10C wearing a VR HMD AND using PointCTRL FCUs! The title: "A-10 Warthog Pilots Are Using The Digital Combat Simulator Video Game To Train In VR". "We are using virtual reality simulation to provide an immersive trainer for students," Air Force Major Drew Glowa, a 355th Training Squadron instructor pilot"
So again.......another incorrect, blanket statement 😂
Sweeter setup than I ever had! Here's a vid for you... ua-cam.com/users/shortsBbx5f2NIQ38?si=5npZXhiQhtgnbrn6 F-16 through the Norway fjords - fun!
It's only getting bigger
The joys of freedom of speech! Thanks for taking the time to compile this. However, I suggest you donate some of your undoubted wealth to the USAF, get your ass strapped into a fighter and find out what it's really like to operate with a 10lb helmet on your head under G. Then come back to us, still in your studio luxury, and let us know about 'immersion' and comfort.
I sure will, thanks for assuming I'm someone that somehow doesn't deserve fine things. I worked my ass off to get to where I am from being a broke musician to owning a remodeling company. I gave up my talents because music became free and had to relearn everything to be able to have the life I saw for myself. So if you have a problem with that, as Elon said, go fuck yourself
What an asshat comment.
You're flat wrong, sorry, and misinforming your viewers. I have full MIP like you do (and more) along with the Pimax Crystal and use all my gear without issue. All it takes is a little time to build a bit of muscle memory and if you fly the FA18 with the MIP, you're basically interacting with what you see, even if you can't see your hands.
Sorry but not sorry. I'm not misinformming anyone as this is an unbiased and non sponsored video. Yes, I could learn braille like you and that's impressive sure. But I still have a heavy ass brick that turns 1 to 1 and doesn't have 180 FOV. I'm glad you have all the same stuff, we are both fortunate to afford all this cool stuff. But don't post I'm misinformming people simply because you don't agree. That's weak on your part