Want more? Go check out the alt channel "The Nova Group" There's a fresh video of myself and Hop discussing our UPR builds. www.youtube.com/@novagroup2
A DMR is a DMR there is not Urban version.. Why a Civilian would need to shoot that distance for defence use is beyond my logical comprehension too.. Perhaps you can explain?
I am sorry I will stick to my 20inch musket. The wife has 16in rifle only so much funds in the pot, plus I still think 16 in 308 could fit the role better.
@@GMT439did you start your account one week ago just to make asinine comments on Brass Facts videos? Seems beyond my logical comprehension, perhaps you can explain?
@brassfacts could you possibly do a video and speak to the popularity of the 18-inch barrel. I've looked over a lot of numbers in regards to Velocity and 18 inches seems to be a pretty lame jumping velocity from 16 in yet 18 to 20 in yields a big jump similar to 14 1/2 to 16. I'm off the frame of mine now that I'll either run 16 420. 18 inches only yields a nominal increase in velocity from 16, yet two more inches from 18 to 20 and there's another big jump. Thoughts?
I think Garand Thumb said it best. "We can bug out to the mountains, but at some point we have to come down and take our country back." I think that pretty much sums up any probable or likely SHTF situation. You might leave your city or town to get away from rioting, looting, etc, but at some point you'll want your house and property back.
9 Holes has a fantastic podcast episode about the Mk12 SPR and its obsolescence in the modern AR15 market. The quality in a 1-10x optic and accuracy in modern machined barrels and free float rails kind of makes most GPRs also fit the criteria for what the SPR was meant for in its time of conception. So really i think the focus nowadays should be on dudes understanding and being confident at shooting at ranges past 500yds with whatever "GPR" they have.
Exactly right. The most important training element for the modern minute man is increasing your personal effective range with whatever platforms you own. Too many folks have 600-1000 yard guns and have never shot past 200.
@@compulsivegunbuyeri never understood the 1000 yard setup for minuteman type stuff. Its really hard to PID a threat at that range, especially in populated areas. Sniper fantasies i guess.
@jurpo6 I'd be happy if the average minute man could shoot past 200, but there is absolutely a case for longer range training. The original Minute Men relied on sniping to harass the British on the road to Concord....so I'm not sure I see your point.
No joke, Jimsgoonlife did that for a while. The only reason he changed from a 12.5 inch SPR to a 16 Ich was because of the pistol brace ruling that came out😭
@@BrapBang I believe you can just look up LMT MARS uppers to get an idea of what they were going for, they may have even used the SPECWAR name somewhere.
@colbydixon5136 I was about to bring Jim's Goon Life up, that guy is a total goober. Goes to tactical games with a Rworded rifle, fails.... "ah man must have been a fluke idk what happened!"
It's worth remembering that while the mk12 was 18", the spr builds it was based on were 16". The army wanted a longer barrel, and it fell out of favor after that happened.
The original light Sniper carbines were free-floated 723s with Ops Inc suppressors, and had mounts for PAQ-4C or AIM-1 LAMs, plus optics, 2-stage triggers, and select CMV barrels that shot well. They started out as lightweight 14.5" carbines with CLGS, FSB pocket cuts, and rail sections bolted on where needed. Some were aluminum tubes, while others were fiberglass from KAC SR-25s or ArmaLite AR-10s later on (1996). The original Sniper carbines were put together after Panama due to Combat Development folks collecting AAR comments from everyone that was part of Just Cause. Most of them had the "CAR-15" cheek piece and John Masen sharktooth rubber recoil pad zip-tied to the Colt Fiberlite stocks. Lone Star Ordnance grips were very common for both the main PG and the VFG. They had Harris 6-9 bipods that would be attached in the dismounted local overwatch support role. When doing aerial sniper overwatch/support, they used Aimpoints.
Magnified optics were Japanese Microdots and even some early ACOGs once Dam Neck guys asked their armorers to duplicate what they saw in Army JSOC. M4A1 hit JSOC in 1994, so there were a lot of Sniper carbines that transitioned with the front-end, but mounted up in an M4 upper. Prior to M4 production, there were several 723s that had shaved carry handles and Weaver rails drilled and tapped onto the uppers, then risers with normal scope rings attached. Some had 16" barrels. Dam Neck snipers had Lilja make them stainless 17" CLGS barrels and did reflex cans over those, both with and without FSB pocket cuts on their 727s. Assaulters even got carbine-length free float tubes on their 727s and M4A1s before/as the RIS was being developed in response to all this at KAC. There's a great photo of Sawman Sawyer with a non-FSB pocket cut Sniper carbine with reflex can, PEQ-2A, Harris, I think a Leupold LPVO, with a SIMRAD mount on it. This is all way before the Mk.12 prototypes even existed. Range 37 SOTIC Committee guys and White-side SEALs saw the JSOC Sniper carbines and wanted something similar. That's when enough momentum built up and Crane was brought on board to do the SPR uppers, and complete rifles with A1 lowers. Army JSOC got KAC MREs to replace the older FSB pocket float tubes, since they are much easier to remove and install for their frequent barrel-changes on The Unit shoot schedule. It's also why The Unit didn't stick with stainless pipes, because they shot out too quickly. CMV lasted longer of course, so they went with accurate CMV barrels instead. They had some issues with the 3-piece collar Ops Inc cans with return-to-zero, so KAC made the NT4 in response. Allen Engineering developed the brake and conucal alignment collar with specific barrel dims to address that as well, which is what the SPR got. Dam Neck had some slick transitional Sniper carbines that had the KAC rifle free-float RAS, with 16-17" barrels and reflex cans. Big difference with the Mk.12s was 18" Douglas pipes with RLGS (smoother impulse), and the PRI flip-up front sight/gas block, as well as the new collar. The challenge is getting back to the lightweight, shorter 14.5" 723 carbine, with Mk.12 recoil/sight picture and friendliness to clip-on NVDs. 723s and 727s with FSB pocket float tubes weren't friendly to in-line clip-ons.
So the barrel history in JSOC Sniper carbines goes like this: 14.5" pencil with Reflex can 14.5" 727 profile with heavy forend and 203 step cut, reflex can 16" CLGS with Reflex and early KAC NT4 17" CLGS Lilja with Reflex can Whatever SOCOM did after that with the prototype SPR uppers came later, settling on 18" for Mod 0 and Mod 1, 16" for Mod H. Original match ammo was loaded by Hornady and Black Hills in the 68-69gr weight classes. AMU, Black Hills, and Crane worked on 77gr Nosler and SMK later on, which of course became Mk.262 OTM. There's a lot of history behind the scenes that never saw the light of day, due to how clamped-down JSOC is with their CDD stuff.
Kyle Defoor spoke about this. Around the same time NSWC Crane wanted to standardize the "recce rifles" of the time, the 5th Special Forces Group wanted an accurized 20" upper receiver. Both the Army Marksmanship Unit and the Marine Corps wanted the same 20" barrel. When NSWC Crane specced the initial upper receiver, it had a 20" barrel. But the procurement systems of the time wouldn't approve it, because there were already 20" barrels in the system. Because they were accountants and not warfighters, they didn't see the value in a differently-specced barrel of the same length. Crane got around this by simply changing the specification to 18". The Mod H came to be because unlike the Marines, the AMU, and the 5th SFG, the SEALs didn't want a dedicated semi-auto sniper; they wanted a general-purpose rifle with some added capability, and the longer barrel pushed too far in the other direction for a lot of them. Ultimately, the 18" barrel on the most well-known SPR versions was actually not wanted by either side, but rather due to a quirk in the procurement process. Sorry to necro your long-past post, but it's an interesting tidbit.
The core problem with this prepper/shtf-fantasy is: When shtf, which is historically precedented and abundant, the communities and populations that get to live to see the end of it are those that carry on and stick together. Most of prepper and shtf-fantasy culture is based around the assumption that "everybody is on his own". This does not only lead to a dead end for the prepper, it also contributes actively to fracturing the community and to the community, prepper included, to go under. In most shtf-scenarios, except one that is actively brought about by tribalist or sectarian warfare in the first place, people in general don't react by immediately going Mad Max and murdering each other for a sack of potatoes. People help each other and try to get to the other end of it together. In the exception mentioned above, lone wolfing will also get you mostly killed.
My POV: You're on your own until you get to the homestead where all of your community is meeting at. After that, you're pulling security alone or in pairs. Hunting alone or in pairs. So be able to take care of yourself when you're alone so you can make it back to a warm bed and meal.
That's why I invested as heavily in Permaculture as a skillset as tactical shooting... however, as you described SHTF having historical precedent, looking at what happened with Selco Begovic in Bosnia during the Siege of Sarajevo was absolutely brutal.
the more serious s hit the f the more important communications become. and not only am i talking about radios, but more about whom you are going to call. i'm talking about networking, inside communities and between communities, government and other services and institutes. you should know them and they should know you to coordinate with one another. thus if there is a big thing going on at least at some level there might be a staff that is going to have an account of you, what your unit is capable of and what is it supposed to be doing, what resourses you have and what you are lacking in. "we against the world" is inacceptable
Always believed this is really the most effective set up for us civilians, it can do it all effectively in one rifle. 16in w/ suppressor can even get the near 3000fps mark with decent 55gr putting it in the vibe check range for lvl iii plates. thanks for putting the lightweight midrange spr concept in the spotlight.
14.5" unsuppressed already spits out M193 at 3050fps, and 62gr M855 at 2920fps. Those are fleet numbers from Aberdeen Proving Grounds Ballistics Laboratory, part of the published velocities in the TMs dating back into the early 1990s.
According to data that I collected about 2 months ago 16” Winchester M193 unsuppressed averaged 3035 with a 5 round data set. 13.9” averaged 2975 FPS unsuppressed, I’ll lose 60 FPS to have the 13.9” with suppressor be the length of an 18” rifle with just an A2 birdcage.
@@Jake-ug2mf M193 is a decent round within 200yds. It hits hard within that distance, but really falls off after that. Really more for close range work. You can chip paint with it a little further out, but it runs out of gas fast.
@@kalanipitmon7817 Depends on if you make a head or spine shot, then how many you can pump into them. First guy I saw shot with 5.56 took one to the right side of his head, just like the Zapruder film. Canoed his head with brain matter blasted everywhere in the water (he was swimming in the Imjin River trying to get away once caught by ROK Army near the DMZ). Other guys have taken multiple rounds of M855 to the chest/torso and ran off to expire. Some have taken a single M855 round to the chest and survived without medical care, including one shot by my buddy in Fallujah. Guy was handicapped, and had been shot by the Marines several times as well before my buddy shot him. Retard strength. Iraqis said, “No problem, no problem. He is crazeee, very crazeee, you know this?” pointing to head with angry look on their face. “He tried to kill his father. The Marines have shot him 5 times already. Very crazeee."
The crazy thing about urban vs rural areas, is that there's the potential for longer shots in a city environment due to the cleared foliage, taller lookout spots, and long wide open lanes such as roads and highways that give you long distance visibility as opposed to biomes like forests and even deserts where there is an abundance of cover and concealment. And where you'd be able to pass by a possibly hostile patrol party by mere dozens of yards without either knowing the other is there depending on the circumstances.
I love how a lot of your videos demonstrating urban concepts are full of b roll filmed in the middle of nowhere… lol. I can’t dig too hard because I don’t know of any deserted towns that could serve as a range. Good work 🤙🏼
@@ChristopherGoydich-cb6bd "Today we're filming urban floor and room clearing in an Evergrande high-rise. Be careful of the Tofu construction strength. Don't rub or lean heavily on any surface. Your rounds will go through many Tofu-crete walls. Beware of holes in floors with hollywood strength rebar. A several story fall through the floors will ruin the shooting schedule. "
Glad youre covering this concept, i had the same idea a couple years back, 13.7 AR with a suppressor, 1-6x, WML, and a bipod, primarily using 75-77gr ammo. Its more of a GPR/SPR hybrid. Had 1-8x for a bit, but decided to lighten the rifle with a lighter optic and a lighter rail before pinning. Now i have an 8.7lb rifle that is is the same length as a 20 inch, capable out to 600yd first round hits no problem. Good video.
I run a 13.7 with a similar setup, only I went with a 3.5-18 optic and piggybacking a red dot. It's a night and day build. She's about 14lbs right now, so I lighten up everywhere else to make up for it
@@dylanarvig4179 I thought about other optic choices, but loaded my rifle weighs about 10 pounds, anything over 10 pounds gets old fast in my opinion, did a 4 mile hike with it and a full pack, definitely not fun, couldn't imagine anything heavier than a 10 pound rifle. Plan to do a 10 mile hike with my kit next month
I was ten minutes in and thought "he needs to do a video about why you should have a suppressor". Twelve minutes in I was like... Oh yeah ok you thought about that already. Good video, keep up the good work
Currently in the process of assembling my 14.5 rifle. Glad to see you came to the same conclusion I did. A quality barrel and good ammo has made me shy away from the 16+ inch rifles and I’ve settled on what will be my new main when it’s built. A 14.5 Update: my rifle is built and it looks beautiful, shoots great. Really happy with the length, I didn’t think I’d notice a difference from a 16” but I absolutely have.
14.5 is the perfect do all length imo. I run a ddm4a1 with an exps3-0 on it now, but used to use a 1x6 and shooting 300yards was as easy as shooting 25yds. Also an easy length to manuever inside a house or room with while still getting decent fps. A 13.7/9 wouldnt be bad to go with either . But i do love my 18inch as well for them zoomers
“Mountains, mullets, Merica” channel has great content on showing the effectiveness of 14.5 at distance. Not going to sell my 16in or my 13.9 but it’s great to know I don’t need anything longer.
the channel 'mountains, mullets, merica' been making videos ringing steel at impressive ranges with his 14.5 ar for a good while now. it is extremely viable. 77gr makes the most difference over an extra 4 inches of barrel
My build from 2 years ago. Ballistic Advantage 14.7 intermediate profile barrel sold as military contract overrun, 556 with 1/7 twist and pin and welded dead air flasher hinder/ suppressor ready. Mated to a bcm upper receiver with a 1/8 lpvo, and 45 offset micro red-dot. 1 MOA at 100 yards with 75 grain bthp from hornady. I do have a flashlight, like 6 pounds with the intermittent Profiled BA barrel. Short, light and accurate!
Seeing a channel in the gun tube world in the same vein as Project Farm or Torque Test Channel, just raw data collection and comparison in mass format would be extremely valuable.
5:28 I'd suggest that a .308 AR can be pulled into the role too. In the British Army, each 8-man section has a sharpshooter with a 16" 7.62 LMT. We train to use this weapon for CQB as well as longer ranges. Essentially, the sharpshooter runs through the same drills as the other riflemen and can function in the same role, but with an added reach. This has worked well for us.
I've been thinking about taking this exact set up and build but chambering it in 308. Not a battle rifle set up but an SPR/DMR for suburban areas where increased penetration is required because of structures but also the need for a "longer" ranged cartridge that can more easily buck the wind. The wind issue is something that doesn't get covered because of how of a non issue it is to many. However man made wind breaks & wind alleys IE streets heavily lined with buildings (city blocks, row houses, tight neighborhoods) that channel wind and intersections where turbulent wind collides the slower surrounding air. This can be much more violent than in a field or flat land where most people shoot.
Do some research on 308 bbls being shorter than 16”. They tend to suffer more velocity drop and also more wasted powders means louder and brighter signature at the muzzle. Also, good luck on building an AR10. I speak from experience they’re kinda finicky. You might have better luck buying off-the-shelf.
Galil ace in .308 isn’t far off from this, I would still go with the 16” barrel myself however. Mine is surprisingly accurate but does suffer huge accuracy loss after it’s hot. First round hits at 700 yards has been no problem what so ever though.
Remember class, if you’re throwing melt-offs inside, consider using gently corked plastic bottles, trick birthday candles as fuzz, and a mixture of used motor oil and white gas. The more you know.
@@Quicks1lvr this is the type of nice reading material that could be easily left in little pamphlet scattered about. For the education of the public! I care about literacy in this country.
I did a video somewhat like this on my channel last year about a 16" concept SPR.. Glad to see BF putting out a video like this saying and elaborating on what I couldn't..
Wanted to say big thanks to Brock, I just got my Bortex viper pst gen 2 1-6 today and a Warne mount. If it wasn't for Brock, Hop, C_does, and many more, I wouldn't have taken the plunge. Love it and thanks for the recommendation fellas!
Hmmm sounds like an idea use case of the VHS2/Hellion 20” with a suppressor since those are apparently doing pretty good on the accuracy front. I know bull yucks but hey worth a shot
fr, i think people spend 1500+ on a new upper setup for regular rifle that can reach out further, meanwhile they wont bother with bullpups because they often need a couple hundred bucks in aftermarket. even though a bullpup would wrap all these gun concepts into one general rifle which is exactly what brass facts says he wants.
I love that you are always thinking about WHY and what the POU is. I love the concept and already have a build setup like this, minus the bipod because I haven't gotten there yet. My only complaint is that it does feel much heavier than my 11.5 but I guess increasing lethality at range has to cost you something!
To throw my two cents in…I’m opting for two cry havoc adapters. 300 shorty and 556 long boy. Love the videos and appreciate your work in getting them out. 😊
Also for anyone looking for an adjustable gas block: consider the adjustable tube from Barnes Precision. It seems to make the rifle run smoother, especially between 5.56 and .223, compared to an adjustable block. I have the Barnes tube on a retro build and an SA on another upper. The tube can also be installed onto a rifle with a pinned FSB or pinned low pro block since it doesnt change the block.
I see the application for this as more suburban DMR, but I get the concept. Flex into an urban carbine setup but with the reach of (close to) an SPR. A GPR of sorts, but a nuanced position that is distinct.
I'm in the MAC camp, my do all rifle is .308 battle-ish rifle. With a k-can, bipod, light, the 16" 9.5lb rifle can be almost lived with. All while delivering soul and meat harvesting terminal performance.
I had concluded long before the Super Special Forces Delta Ninja SWAT Seal style SBR rage started. That a 14.5 or 16 inch carbines were where it's at. For the general purpose rifle. Even before Crane had said anything about the, "Recce Rifle" concept. Crane/NSW wanted the Mk12 to be a 16 inch gun. I served with the two guys that did all the requirements for the M27. Gunner Mortimer was a Squad Leader with another platoon in my company. And was the lead on development at 29 palms. And Gunner Wade and I went to Boot Camp together. And he was a CAAT platoon guy with 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines. When I was a lowly boot 0311. He was the East Coast lead on tge development of the M27. They both had concluded a 16" carbine was optimal. Especially for the general purpose aspect of things. Infantry sh*t. And Infantry sh*t is going to be the order of the day every day if'n this all goes south.
@@MylesKillis Suppressors suck on 10.3's or 11.5's truth be told. After my EAS. I went into being a guard as a Sherriff's deputy. For about a minute. ( Hated that job.) And was put on the entry team. We had Colt 11.5 Commando carbines with the very same Knights NT4 that you guys were issued. The cool of it all goes away real quick. When you are in a stack and working through a whole cell block. Over and motherf*cking over. Gas mask on as well. Because they CS the bejesus out of a block on lockdown. And you have to work through it in training. And to look through the Aimpoint the gun was up all the time. I'm not small either. 6'3 and at the time 225. Another was this yoked as fuck dark green fellow Marine. 6'5, 265 pounds. Our arms would be quivering after a few cycles through. No bueno. So I can only imagine on the M27. I was never issued one. I just knew the guys that were on the development. But ballistically speaking a 16" inch gun is the best compromise.
On your point about “1 go to rifle”, that’s my philosophy too. An 11.5” with an Elcan Specter on it. But, there may be times when I need more magnification and want more velocity. So I have a 14.5” nitrided, fluted match barrel upper with an Athlon 2-12 in my grab-n-go bag in the even I need to evacuate the area. I’m likely not going to bring another gun, but if he second upper will give me extra capability if I need it without being too bulky
If you have over gassing issues, just get the Griffin buffer, it's wonderful. If you have any other gassing issues, seal the room with plastic and enjoy.
The VHS has some nice Starship Troopers vibes and shoots pretty dang nice. The MDR and Tavor are going to have the best triggers available*, with the AUG being a close third. *available means aftermarket upgrades, but they do exist.
@@lordhellfire153 I have the 16" VHS, I personally have no interest in the longer one. The trigger pull is long but its not as bad as some people make it out to be. It could be much nicer, but shooting supported I find it easy enough to creep up to the break. Standing unsupported I hold roughly the sames groups as my fancy 2 stage trigger equipped ARs. Lastly, cowitness height is ~1", so go for a 1.1" optic height. Scope rings for an MPVO or LPVO are easy, and the Primary Arms prisms sit at 1.1" on their low mount.
@acdrz125 ya know, 16" with a suppressor is probably the go to and MVPO is 100% the route I'd want to go. And fuck people bitching about the trigger I fire my revolver DA only because it's fun.
I think it’s a solid concept but I’m biased as I have built a similar rifle. Currently it’s a 13.9” with a Vortex 2-10 FFP (at some point I want to add the secondary dot but not now due to budget) running a cloud defensive light, Griffin Explorr Can, and I would like to add a bipod as well. Ballistically the 13.9 will work out to 600+, and locally I’m pushing it to get a 310 yard shot at the range. I collected some Chrono data comparing the 11.5, 13.9, and 16” rifles I have, as well as suppressed/unsuppressed with 4 silencers on the 16”, my main takeaways were: 1. The 13.9 only lost 60 fps vs the 16” (2,975 vs 3,035) with Winchester M193 55 grain. 2. On the 16” rifle the data was so close, with one suppressor averaging below unsuppressed (the shortest can, 4.4 FPS below) and the the other averaging as much as 75.2 FPS faster (the longest can but also a .46 cal can) I don’t know that a suppressor truly has a measurable impact on velocity. 3. 62 grain 223 was only at 2,652.2 FPS with the 13.9 whereas the 16” was at 2,723.8, I feel like that’s kinda slow but I would like to get my hands on 556 loaded 62 grain. Overall I like how the 13.9” shoots suppressed with a mid length gas system and it’s been relatively reliable except for the CMC trigger.
Congratulations you re-created the 2005 Marine Corps infantry rifle an M4 with a four by a cog. There are so many head shots during phantom fury. NCIS came into investigate.
@@Token_Black_Guyif I'm remembering things right, the amount of headshots was making it seem like they were executing these people. Turns out they were just that accurate and well if you can hit it, hit it
Running a 20" HBAR 5.56 chamber 1-8 twist with a 4-14x44 and a top dot over a KE Arms KP15 lower as my SPR. My GPR is a 16" 5.56 pencil barrel in 1-8 with a 1-8x and a top dot. It's set up exactly the same as my 10.5 build. Same scope, same light, same positioning of the pressure pad, same LAM, everything. I highly recommend something in the 4-14x range with a top dot if you're running an SPR. Especially if you're running an 18"+ barrel. Id even consider the Primary Arms SLX 4-16x44 with HUD DMR reticle or R Grid 2b reticle to be a good SPR scope on a budget. That extra magnification coupled with the HUGE amount of info you can pick up with the HUD DMR reticle makes it a very valuable tool. Having a top dot for the true 1x in a pinch is also a necessity for me.
I’m getting 2745 with that same load at 1400ft elv. 10 ft from the muzzle from a Faxon 18” so not sure whats up with your barrel. Dropping barrel length is the right choice for 99% of people who are likely to engage 150 yards or less however when you are trying to maintain terminal performance beyond 350yards that extra 1-200 fps is going to extend the ability of a projectile to fragment or expand an additional 100 yards. Look into the terminal threshold of the bullet you are using and you’ll find yourself reconsidering shortening the barrel when you realize you’ve got an over gassed .22
11:35 I did the same thing, took my 16-in Geissele SD and built it in to a similar role, a convertible if you will. Topped with a S&B 1-8 Dual CC, Atlas bipod, Surefire SOCOM, BH Mk-262 Mod 1 C, it’s a .5 MOA to my range’s limited distance of 400yds. I say convertible because I can quickly remove the bipod and silencer to make it more CQB friendly, though I have SD builds of similar set up in 11.5 and 14.5 p/w running a Mini-2 silencer, EoTech w a 5x magnifier. All superbly accurate, but the 16-in gives me a good bit more velocity out the gate. All are set up to accept NV should the need arise.
In one of your videos you mentioned that you would give a bullpup a try. It would be great if you were to take a 16’ 308 a Desert Tech MDRX and put it against your SPR in a course with targets that reflect impact energy (even water jugs will do the trick). Take the Mantis handguard to cover your bipod needs on the MDRX. And I am sure you as a lefty will enjoy the forward eject feature. That would be an awesome video.
16" SPR is 100% valid, as long as you get your barrel from a good manufacturer. My 16" DD barrel, 1-8 ATACR, Polonium K, 77gr IMI combo gets me first round impacts at 6-800yd and has dinged silhouettes at 1000 yards.
American suburbs have surprisingly long ranges between, like everything tbh. Roads, for example, are very wide. Especially multilane “stroads” Not to mention huge parking lots.
Another concept I've seen floating around is the USA rpk or civilian "light machine gun" its really just a heavy rifle meant for sustained rates of fire with high ammo capacity. I'd just like to see what you think of the concept and how it would fit in your small civilian group that you mentioned
I built something like this a while back: 20" heavy barrel, rifle gas and stock, 2-12 scope, binary trigger, drum mags, and a QD bipod. Ended up being mostly fired in semiauto as a pseudo SPR but I was basically going for what I thought would've been cool for a "M27 for the regular guy". Can't wait for more people to do similar builds in the near future.
I'd love to see your thoughts with an AB Suppressors reflex can on an SPR to see how that changes things - can you now rock an urban 18? can you GPR a 14 SPR? can you middle ground to a single 16 inch urban+rural SPR? etc
@@DinoNucci Brass and Hop know what I mean, theyve done videos about this. GPR = General Purpose Rifle. SPR = Special Purpose Rifle (this video). 18, 16, 14 are barrel lengths. Pretty straight forward with the context clues in the video
Sorry to be that guy but i'm gonna be that guy. I certainly don't mean to be a dick about it because I do enjoy all the content You and hop put out. My take from this is: Basically with this build we are back at a basic infantry grunt rifle build. A GPR or whatever acronym cool guy phrase one wants to use. It's a 16" do-it-all rifle/carbine. Neither a DMR or a CQB type build but it's versatile enough for almost any of the plethora of situations one can find oneself in. With a bit of planning, zeroing and dialing one can probably stretch it out to 500meters and hopefully have a decently lethal shot. As for room clearing it's not optimal but definitely doable. Been doing room clearing in narrow apartments with a 18", fixed stock HK G3 and although it's a bit clunky it's mostly about training and adapting the gear to the situation. The optic on top is what makes it sort of stand aside from maybe current issue standard grunt rifles that mostly use RDOs but from what i've heard standard issue rifles these days are being fitted with LPVOs/MPVOs aswell. Took that from your video "Who Has The Better LPVO? Army Vs USMC". Anyways, keep up the good work! Cheers
Long live the UPR! Concept vids give us something to talk about until the next one. I also see the recommendation for the UPR-Build vid on the Nova Group channel.
I like many have a 18" DMR or SPR. But I also have 16" rifles with a LPVO of 1-6 and routinely shoot those to 300 yards with no problem. I've shot very accurately with the 18" guns I have out to 725 yards. Each have their own purpose for sure. The weight of a goof 16" barreled rifle with some type of glass with a loaded 30rd mag is going to weight almost 10 lbs. The 18" is going to be even heavier and most likely have a bipod to boot. The topic is an interesting one we could all sit around and talk about, but honestly having a DMR for an urban situation in this country with the likely hood of actually using it that way is so remote, it's almost not even worth talking about.
@@CantoniaCustoms it kind of boils down to a big fat "it depends." Velocity? Sure. But at what cost? Compromises and such need to be addressed at the end of the day. But from an "on paper" type of view point greater velocity is considered a win.
brASS facts and Hop. You guys have lightly touched on the team/group necessity and requirement. Maybe it’s behind the scenes footage, but would you do a part 2 of this UPR series and focus on your spotter/observation element. Alright.
13:24 I was impressed with the velocity of the AAC 77 OTMs from my 20-in FN M16A4 clone. It averaged just over 2,800 fps.! What does that mean besides increased velocity? Maybe accuracy loss, maybe poor terminal performance at short range… dunno, I just chronographed that, IMI 77 and BH Mk-262 on the same day from a 20, 16, 14.5, and 11.5 barrels.
You ever given some thought to giving up a little precision for a round with the terminal ballistics, and effective range of a good mid-weight bonded soft point?
A 16 inch barrel is 500 yard capable with 5.56. a 1-6 LPVO is capable of doing 500 yard distances with training. Maybe a 1-10 if you want good ranging beyond that. And the original mk12 rifle I believe had a 16 inch barrel to do 500 yard things effectively. Anyone reading this please correct me if I'm wrong about that. But the mid taper, semi heavy barrel profile is a multirole profile that enables you to do a bunch of stuff. Basically, a 16 inch general purpose rifle with slightly more powerful glass up top and even without a bipod would be great for doing just about everything well enough to get by and be a good middle ground for use in those scenarios. Weird, it's almost like a general purpose rifle can do general purpose things. That said, this would be a great concept for forward operations and shock troops to use because it's a do-all rifle concept and you need a do-all rifle for those kinds of things.
I've found that an 18" to 20" fluted barrel will get you all the weight savings you need without significant penalties in heat, accuracy, etc. A 13.5" handguard will provide enough 'rail-estate' and additional weight savings. I put one less mag in my back pocket and shove my suppressor in there instead until it's needed.
Noticed you mentioned the PSA AAC 77gr ammo. I bought a few boxes of their OTM and their Sierra Matchking. Goal is to compare the 2 and see if paying $15/box vs $12 is worth it. Same applies for their 69gr with same offerings. I’m guessing the extra $ isn’t worth it. Time will tell!!
@scott2228 thankfully, it's only .50 cents. Unlike some manufacturer's taking advantage the market and inflating the costs to capitalize on our dollars and the panic buying.
Want more?
Go check out the alt channel "The Nova Group"
There's a fresh video of myself and Hop discussing our UPR builds.
www.youtube.com/@novagroup2
A DMR is a DMR there is not Urban version.. Why a Civilian would need to shoot that distance for defence use is beyond my logical comprehension too..
Perhaps you can explain?
I am sorry I will stick to my 20inch musket. The wife has 16in rifle only so much funds in the pot, plus I still think 16 in 308 could fit the role better.
@@GMT439did you start your account one week ago just to make asinine comments on Brass Facts videos? Seems beyond my logical comprehension, perhaps you can explain?
Lol that disclaimer is pure gold 🤣👍
@brassfacts could you possibly do a video and speak to the popularity of the 18-inch barrel. I've looked over a lot of numbers in regards to Velocity and 18 inches seems to be a pretty lame jumping velocity from 16 in yet 18 to 20 in yields a big jump similar to 14 1/2 to 16. I'm off the frame of mine now that I'll either run 16 420. 18 inches only yields a nominal increase in velocity from 16, yet two more inches from 18 to 20 and there's another big jump. Thoughts?
You’re getting close to putting on the white new balances and starting reloading.
Brass facts is going to tell us all about his .270 hand loads soon enough.
Ahit you should be reloading
You should reload
Hey! Nothing wrong with reloading! Also I own no white shoes…. And I sold my sports car….
Lmao
I think Garand Thumb said it best.
"We can bug out to the mountains, but at some point we have to come down and take our country back."
I think that pretty much sums up any probable or likely SHTF situation. You might leave your city or town to get away from rioting, looting, etc, but at some point you'll want your house and property back.
Brass facts getting in front of the camera to talk and improving the quality of his videos is not unnoticed. Current favorite guntuber.
Agreed, but with a name like TouchBrass, should we be concerned about Brock's safety?
damn good catch lmao@@compulsivegunbuyer
@@compulsivegunbuyer this is one of his alt accounts and he's trying to boost the algo, obviously lol
Yea.... Makes a Dad proud
@basedqt ah, I suppose it's okay for him to touch himself
9 Holes has a fantastic podcast episode about the Mk12 SPR and its obsolescence in the modern AR15 market. The quality in a 1-10x optic and accuracy in modern machined barrels and free float rails kind of makes most GPRs also fit the criteria for what the SPR was meant for in its time of conception. So really i think the focus nowadays should be on dudes understanding and being confident at shooting at ranges past 500yds with whatever "GPR" they have.
Exactly right. The most important training element for the modern minute man is increasing your personal effective range with whatever platforms you own. Too many folks have 600-1000 yard guns and have never shot past 200.
Too many damn trees around hya!
@@compulsivegunbuyeri never understood the 1000 yard setup for minuteman type stuff. Its really hard to PID a threat at that range, especially in populated areas. Sniper fantasies i guess.
@jurpo6 I'd be happy if the average minute man could shoot past 200, but there is absolutely a case for longer range training. The original Minute Men relied on sniping to harass the British on the road to Concord....so I'm not sure I see your point.
To date, none of the guntubers have put out an accurate history of the SPR. Most guys in SOCOM don't even know where it originated.
Really impressed with how much time you put into offhand training. In fact it seems like you shoot almost exclusively with the wrong hand.
Underrated comment
Not sure if serious.
He'll figure it out eventually
left handed long gunners rule.
I mancini costituiscono l'élite dell'umanità.
Up next, the 12.5” SPR that’s just a GPR with exposed turrets on the optic. Full circle!
No joke, Jimsgoonlife did that for a while. The only reason he changed from a 12.5 inch SPR to a 16 Ich was because of the pistol brace ruling that came out😭
@@ChristopherGoydich-cb6bd I haven't heard of the program with the monolithic with quick change barrels... got a link?
@@BrapBang I believe you can just look up LMT MARS uppers to get an idea of what they were going for, they may have even used the SPECWAR name somewhere.
@colbydixon5136 I was about to bring Jim's Goon Life up, that guy is a total goober.
Goes to tactical games with a Rworded rifle, fails.... "ah man must have been a fluke idk what happened!"
cool I'll check that out. Thanks!
@@ChristopherGoydich-cb6bd
Brass Facts seems like such a cool and chill guy, I wish he was real.
ehhh, count your blessings. He's really only tolerable in scripted 20min segments once a week.
Il take drunk 1h ramblings about niche culture gripes once a week.
Such an awesome figment of my imagination 🤩💭
❤@@BrassFacts
It's worth remembering that while the mk12 was 18", the spr builds it was based on were 16". The army wanted a longer barrel, and it fell out of favor after that happened.
good point! Vindicated or something
The original light Sniper carbines were free-floated 723s with Ops Inc suppressors, and had mounts for PAQ-4C or AIM-1 LAMs, plus optics, 2-stage triggers, and select CMV barrels that shot well.
They started out as lightweight 14.5" carbines with CLGS, FSB pocket cuts, and rail sections bolted on where needed.
Some were aluminum tubes, while others were fiberglass from KAC SR-25s or ArmaLite AR-10s later on (1996).
The original Sniper carbines were put together after Panama due to Combat Development folks collecting AAR comments from everyone that was part of Just Cause.
Most of them had the "CAR-15" cheek piece and John Masen sharktooth rubber recoil pad zip-tied to the Colt Fiberlite stocks.
Lone Star Ordnance grips were very common for both the main PG and the VFG.
They had Harris 6-9 bipods that would be attached in the dismounted local overwatch support role.
When doing aerial sniper overwatch/support, they used Aimpoints.
Magnified optics were Japanese Microdots and even some early ACOGs once Dam Neck guys asked their armorers to duplicate what they saw in Army JSOC.
M4A1 hit JSOC in 1994, so there were a lot of Sniper carbines that transitioned with the front-end, but mounted up in an M4 upper.
Prior to M4 production, there were several 723s that had shaved carry handles and Weaver rails drilled and tapped onto the uppers, then risers with normal scope rings attached.
Some had 16" barrels.
Dam Neck snipers had Lilja make them stainless 17" CLGS barrels and did reflex cans over those, both with and without FSB pocket cuts on their 727s. Assaulters even got carbine-length free float tubes on their 727s and M4A1s before/as the RIS was being developed in response to all this at KAC.
There's a great photo of Sawman Sawyer with a non-FSB pocket cut Sniper carbine with reflex can, PEQ-2A, Harris, I think a Leupold LPVO, with a SIMRAD mount on it.
This is all way before the Mk.12 prototypes even existed.
Range 37 SOTIC Committee guys and White-side SEALs saw the JSOC Sniper carbines and wanted something similar.
That's when enough momentum built up and Crane was brought on board to do the SPR uppers, and complete rifles with A1 lowers.
Army JSOC got KAC MREs to replace the older FSB pocket float tubes, since they are much easier to remove and install for their frequent barrel-changes on The Unit shoot schedule.
It's also why The Unit didn't stick with stainless pipes, because they shot out too quickly. CMV lasted longer of course, so they went with accurate CMV barrels instead.
They had some issues with the 3-piece collar Ops Inc cans with return-to-zero, so KAC made the NT4 in response.
Allen Engineering developed the brake and conucal alignment collar with specific barrel dims to address that as well, which is what the SPR got.
Dam Neck had some slick transitional Sniper carbines that had the KAC rifle free-float RAS, with 16-17" barrels and reflex cans.
Big difference with the Mk.12s was 18" Douglas pipes with RLGS (smoother impulse), and the PRI flip-up front sight/gas block, as well as the new collar.
The challenge is getting back to the lightweight, shorter 14.5" 723 carbine, with Mk.12 recoil/sight picture and friendliness to clip-on NVDs.
723s and 727s with FSB pocket float tubes weren't friendly to in-line clip-ons.
So the barrel history in JSOC Sniper carbines goes like this:
14.5" pencil with Reflex can
14.5" 727 profile with heavy forend and 203 step cut, reflex can
16" CLGS with Reflex and early KAC NT4
17" CLGS Lilja with Reflex can
Whatever SOCOM did after that with the prototype SPR uppers came later, settling on 18" for Mod 0 and Mod 1, 16" for Mod H.
Original match ammo was loaded by Hornady and Black Hills in the 68-69gr weight classes.
AMU, Black Hills, and Crane worked on 77gr Nosler and SMK later on, which of course became Mk.262 OTM.
There's a lot of history behind the scenes that never saw the light of day, due to how clamped-down JSOC is with their CDD stuff.
Kyle Defoor spoke about this. Around the same time NSWC Crane wanted to standardize the "recce rifles" of the time, the 5th Special Forces Group wanted an accurized 20" upper receiver. Both the Army Marksmanship Unit and the Marine Corps wanted the same 20" barrel.
When NSWC Crane specced the initial upper receiver, it had a 20" barrel. But the procurement systems of the time wouldn't approve it, because there were already 20" barrels in the system. Because they were accountants and not warfighters, they didn't see the value in a differently-specced barrel of the same length. Crane got around this by simply changing the specification to 18". The Mod H came to be because unlike the Marines, the AMU, and the 5th SFG, the SEALs didn't want a dedicated semi-auto sniper; they wanted a general-purpose rifle with some added capability, and the longer barrel pushed too far in the other direction for a lot of them.
Ultimately, the 18" barrel on the most well-known SPR versions was actually not wanted by either side, but rather due to a quirk in the procurement process.
Sorry to necro your long-past post, but it's an interesting tidbit.
The core problem with this prepper/shtf-fantasy is:
When shtf, which is historically precedented and abundant, the communities and populations that get to live to see the end of it are those that carry on and stick together. Most of prepper and shtf-fantasy culture is based around the assumption that "everybody is on his own". This does not only lead to a dead end for the prepper, it also contributes actively to fracturing the community and to the community, prepper included, to go under.
In most shtf-scenarios, except one that is actively brought about by tribalist or sectarian warfare in the first place, people in general don't react by immediately going Mad Max and murdering each other for a sack of potatoes. People help each other and try to get to the other end of it together. In the exception mentioned above, lone wolfing will also get you mostly killed.
Delusional
My POV:
You're on your own until you get to the homestead where all of your community is meeting at. After that, you're pulling security alone or in pairs. Hunting alone or in pairs. So be able to take care of yourself when you're alone so you can make it back to a warm bed and meal.
That's why I invested as heavily in Permaculture as a skillset as tactical shooting... however, as you described SHTF having historical precedent, looking at what happened with Selco Begovic in Bosnia during the Siege of Sarajevo was absolutely brutal.
@@mrs.vasquezz?
the more serious s hit the f the more important communications become. and not only am i talking about radios, but more about whom you are going to call. i'm talking about networking, inside communities and between communities, government and other services and institutes. you should know them and they should know you to coordinate with one another. thus if there is a big thing going on at least at some level there might be a staff that is going to have an account of you, what your unit is capable of and what is it supposed to be doing, what resourses you have and what you are lacking in. "we against the world" is inacceptable
Always believed this is really the most effective set up for us civilians, it can do it all effectively in one rifle. 16in w/ suppressor can even get the near 3000fps mark with decent 55gr putting it in the vibe check range for lvl iii plates. thanks for putting the lightweight midrange spr concept in the spotlight.
14.5" unsuppressed already spits out M193 at 3050fps, and 62gr M855 at 2920fps.
Those are fleet numbers from Aberdeen Proving Grounds Ballistics Laboratory, part of the published velocities in the TMs dating back into the early 1990s.
According to data that I collected about 2 months ago 16” Winchester M193 unsuppressed averaged 3035 with a 5 round data set. 13.9” averaged 2975 FPS unsuppressed, I’ll lose 60 FPS to have the 13.9” with suppressor be the length of an 18” rifle with just an A2 birdcage.
@@Jake-ug2mf M193 is a decent round within 200yds. It hits hard within that distance, but really falls off after that. Really more for close range work. You can chip paint with it a little further out, but it runs out of gas fast.
@@LRRPFco52whats 55gr 193 lethality range out of an 18inch with 1/8 twost. How bout 62gr as well?
@@kalanipitmon7817 Depends on if you make a head or spine shot, then how many you can pump into them. First guy I saw shot with 5.56 took one to the right side of his head, just like the Zapruder film. Canoed his head with brain matter blasted everywhere in the water (he was swimming in the Imjin River trying to get away once caught by ROK Army near the DMZ).
Other guys have taken multiple rounds of M855 to the chest/torso and ran off to expire. Some have taken a single M855 round to the chest and survived without medical care, including one shot by my buddy in Fallujah. Guy was handicapped, and had been shot by the Marines several times as well before my buddy shot him. Retard strength. Iraqis said, “No problem, no problem. He is crazeee, very crazeee, you know this?” pointing to head with angry look on their face. “He tried to kill his father. The Marines have shot him 5 times already. Very crazeee."
The crazy thing about urban vs rural areas, is that there's the potential for longer shots in a city environment due to the cleared foliage, taller lookout spots, and long wide open lanes such as roads and highways that give you long distance visibility as opposed to biomes like forests and even deserts where there is an abundance of cover and concealment. And where you'd be able to pass by a possibly hostile patrol party by mere dozens of yards without either knowing the other is there depending on the circumstances.
I love how a lot of your videos demonstrating urban concepts are full of b roll filmed in the middle of nowhere… lol. I can’t dig too hard because I don’t know of any deserted towns that could serve as a range. Good work 🤙🏼
I can get urban footage once. and then ill be in jail.
But man would be a helluva video.
@@BrassFacts lol. Yeah……
@@ChristopherGoydich-cb6bd "Today we're filming urban floor and room clearing in an Evergrande high-rise. Be careful of the Tofu construction strength. Don't rub or lean heavily on any surface. Your rounds will go through many Tofu-crete walls. Beware of holes in floors with hollywood strength rebar. A several story fall through the floors will ruin the shooting schedule. "
@@BrassFactsI’d enjoy seeing you briefly on PoliceActivity.
@@jimyeats I mean, think about it. Free high quality helicopter footage.
Glad youre covering this concept, i had the same idea a couple years back, 13.7 AR with a suppressor, 1-6x, WML, and a bipod, primarily using 75-77gr ammo. Its more of a GPR/SPR hybrid. Had 1-8x for a bit, but decided to lighten the rifle with a lighter optic and a lighter rail before pinning. Now i have an 8.7lb rifle that is is the same length as a 20 inch, capable out to 600yd first round hits no problem. Good video.
you made a gpr and fed it heavy ammo
I run a 13.7 with a similar setup, only I went with a 3.5-18 optic and piggybacking a red dot. It's a night and day build. She's about 14lbs right now, so I lighten up everywhere else to make up for it
@@dylanarvig4179 I thought about other optic choices, but loaded my rifle weighs about 10 pounds, anything over 10 pounds gets old fast in my opinion, did a 4 mile hike with it and a full pack, definitely not fun, couldn't imagine anything heavier than a 10 pound rifle. Plan to do a 10 mile hike with my kit next month
I was ten minutes in and thought "he needs to do a video about why you should have a suppressor". Twelve minutes in I was like... Oh yeah ok you thought about that already.
Good video, keep up the good work
I like that video idea!! Needs to happen 🔥🔥
To bad i live in a ban state but i could just make if needed i get
Currently in the process of assembling my 14.5 rifle. Glad to see you came to the same conclusion I did. A quality barrel and good ammo has made me shy away from the 16+ inch rifles and I’ve settled on what will be my new main when it’s built. A 14.5
Update: my rifle is built and it looks beautiful, shoots great. Really happy with the length, I didn’t think I’d notice a difference from a 16” but I absolutely have.
14.5 is the perfect do all length imo. I run a ddm4a1 with an exps3-0 on it now, but used to use a 1x6 and shooting 300yards was as easy as shooting 25yds. Also an easy length to manuever inside a house or room with while still getting decent fps. A 13.7/9 wouldnt be bad to go with either . But i do love my 18inch as well for them zoomers
“Mountains, mullets, Merica” channel has great content on showing the effectiveness of 14.5 at distance. Not going to sell my 16in or my 13.9 but it’s great to know I don’t need anything longer.
He's got an excellent channel for comparisons between often debated firearm topics
he is extremely underrated and deserves a lot of respect. i made this exact comment before i started scrolling
To second that, when I realized and saw guys getting high percentage strings at 1k w/ mod h style rifles, I was pretty much sold.
One of the best on UA-cam. He’s changed the way I view firearms and I’m from Texas!
Same👌
As a lefty, I too appreciate the Forward Controls EMR-A mag release. Those guys make good stuff.
I especially like the part where you said the stuff about the things. Chef’s kiss
Excellent video as always. Thank you for going through the hassle of filming all this
the channel 'mountains, mullets, merica' been making videos ringing steel at impressive ranges with his 14.5 ar for a good while now. it is extremely viable. 77gr makes the most difference over an extra 4 inches of barrel
Video production going hard man amazing video! 💪💪🫡🫡
My build from 2 years ago.
Ballistic Advantage 14.7 intermediate profile barrel sold as military contract overrun,
556 with 1/7 twist and pin and welded dead air flasher hinder/ suppressor ready.
Mated to a bcm upper receiver with a 1/8 lpvo, and 45 offset micro red-dot.
1 MOA at 100 yards with 75 grain bthp from hornady.
I do have a flashlight, like 6 pounds with the intermittent Profiled BA barrel. Short, light and accurate!
Seeing a channel in the gun tube world in the same vein as Project Farm or Torque Test Channel, just raw data collection and comparison in mass format would be extremely valuable.
5:28 I'd suggest that a .308 AR can be pulled into the role too. In the British Army, each 8-man section has a sharpshooter with a 16" 7.62 LMT. We train to use this weapon for CQB as well as longer ranges. Essentially, the sharpshooter runs through the same drills as the other riflemen and can function in the same role, but with an added reach. This has worked well for us.
I've been thinking about taking this exact set up and build but chambering it in 308. Not a battle rifle set up but an SPR/DMR for suburban areas where increased penetration is required because of structures but also the need for a "longer" ranged cartridge that can more easily buck the wind. The wind issue is something that doesn't get covered because of how of a non issue it is to many. However man made wind breaks & wind alleys IE streets heavily lined with buildings (city blocks, row houses, tight neighborhoods) that channel wind and intersections where turbulent wind collides the slower surrounding air. This can be much more violent than in a field or flat land where most people shoot.
Wrong
Do some research on 308 bbls being shorter than 16”. They tend to suffer more velocity drop and also more wasted powders means louder and brighter signature at the muzzle. Also, good luck on building an AR10. I speak from experience they’re kinda finicky. You might have better luck buying off-the-shelf.
Get a Ak
Galil ace in .308 isn’t far off from this, I would still go with the 16” barrel myself however. Mine is surprisingly accurate but does suffer huge accuracy loss after it’s hot. First round hits at 700 yards has been no problem what so ever though.
556 does better in wind
Remember class, if you’re throwing melt-offs inside, consider using gently corked plastic bottles, trick birthday candles as fuzz, and a mixture of used motor oil and white gas. The more you know.
I like candles.
I followed you until you talked about the candles as fuzz, i must know. I’m, uh, a Birthday cake maker you see. 🎂
Didn't the news say to add Styrofoam as well?
@@Quicks1lvr this is the type of nice reading material that could be easily left in little pamphlet scattered about. For the education of the public! I care about literacy in this country.
I recently went 75 gr with my DD 10.5 barrel with a 7 inch silencer.
Bro, you have to be at the top of at least a dozen lists.
high score baby.
I did a video somewhat like this on my channel last year about a 16" concept SPR.. Glad to see BF putting out a video like this saying and elaborating on what I couldn't..
Jims Goon did the same thing. 14.5 is what he used for a couple long range classes.
Wanted to say big thanks to Brock, I just got my Bortex viper pst gen 2 1-6 today and a Warne mount. If it wasn't for Brock, Hop, C_does, and many more, I wouldn't have taken the plunge. Love it and thanks for the recommendation fellas!
This comment was brought to you by 20" gang
Hmmm sounds like an idea use case of the VHS2/Hellion 20” with a suppressor since those are apparently doing pretty good on the accuracy front. I know bull yucks but hey worth a shot
fr, i think people spend 1500+ on a new upper setup for regular rifle that can reach out further, meanwhile they wont bother with bullpups because they often need a couple hundred bucks in aftermarket. even though a bullpup would wrap all these gun concepts into one general rifle which is exactly what brass facts says he wants.
Installs honeycomb anti-reflection device on scope , Wears Omni-reflective mirrored sun glasses while using scope..
Because it’s not about hiding flash, it’s about looking cool 👍
I love that you are always thinking about WHY and what the POU is. I love the concept and already have a build setup like this, minus the bipod because I haven't gotten there yet. My only complaint is that it does feel much heavier than my 11.5 but I guess increasing lethality at range has to cost you something!
That camo job is really similar to one of far cry 5s for the AR. It’s a f’ing vibe.
During my venture into the Gun youtube Zitegiste ive seen us got from long to short, back to long, now back to short.... truly hilarious
The firearms industry loves it. People keep spending money 😂
All bs fantasy
To throw my two cents in…I’m opting for two cry havoc adapters. 300 shorty and 556 long boy. Love the videos and appreciate your work in getting them out. 😊
Also for anyone looking for an adjustable gas block: consider the adjustable tube from Barnes Precision. It seems to make the rifle run smoother, especially between 5.56 and .223, compared to an adjustable block. I have the Barnes tube on a retro build and an SA on another upper.
The tube can also be installed onto a rifle with a pinned FSB or pinned low pro block since it doesnt change the block.
No
Brass...please we need your 1st impressions on the huxwrks 556k.
Would love to see you do an urban survival video with the mk23
Why
@@DinoNucci well, because we can as Americans. Plus I just love the gun and the concept it was built around. Just a personal thing I guess.
@@gregorypatzelt6964 okay, approved
I see the application for this as more suburban DMR, but I get the concept. Flex into an urban carbine setup but with the reach of (close to) an SPR. A GPR of sorts, but a nuanced position that is distinct.
I'm in the MAC camp, my do all rifle is .308 battle-ish rifle. With a k-can, bipod, light, the 16" 9.5lb rifle can be almost lived with. All while delivering soul and meat harvesting terminal performance.
What power scope do you recommend for a AR10 battle rifle?
@@Dirtybay80 2-10, 2-12 ish. I run a trijicon credo
Best paint job I’ve seen on UA-cam. Actually fits the environment rather than looking cool…
so does the shirt, tacticool fashion victim 😂
I had concluded long before the Super Special Forces Delta Ninja SWAT Seal style SBR rage started. That a 14.5 or 16 inch carbines were where it's at. For the general purpose rifle. Even before Crane had said anything about the, "Recce Rifle" concept. Crane/NSW wanted the Mk12 to be a 16 inch gun.
I served with the two guys that did all the requirements for the M27. Gunner Mortimer was a Squad Leader with another platoon in my company. And was the lead on development at 29 palms. And Gunner Wade and I went to Boot Camp together. And he was a CAAT platoon guy with 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines. When I was a lowly boot 0311. He was the East Coast lead on tge development of the M27.
They both had concluded a 16" carbine was optimal. Especially for the general purpose aspect of things. Infantry sh*t. And Infantry sh*t is going to be the order of the day every day if'n this all goes south.
Yeah until we added suppressors and now it sucks
@@MylesKillis Suppressors suck on 10.3's or 11.5's truth be told. After my EAS. I went into being a guard as a Sherriff's deputy. For about a minute. ( Hated that job.) And was put on the entry team. We had Colt 11.5 Commando carbines with the very same Knights NT4 that you guys were issued. The cool of it all goes away real quick. When you are in a stack and working through a whole cell block. Over and motherf*cking over. Gas mask on as well. Because they CS the bejesus out of a block on lockdown. And you have to work through it in training. And to look through the Aimpoint the gun was up all the time. I'm not small either. 6'3 and at the time 225. Another was this yoked as fuck dark green fellow Marine. 6'5, 265 pounds. Our arms would be quivering after a few cycles through. No bueno.
So I can only imagine on the M27. I was never issued one. I just knew the guys that were on the development.
But ballistically speaking a 16" inch gun is the best compromise.
On your point about “1 go to rifle”, that’s my philosophy too. An 11.5” with an Elcan Specter on it.
But, there may be times when I need more magnification and want more velocity. So I have a 14.5” nitrided, fluted match barrel upper with an Athlon 2-12 in my grab-n-go bag in the even I need to evacuate the area. I’m likely not going to bring another gun, but if he second upper will give me extra capability if I need it without being too bulky
heeyyyy that's my go to rifle too
If you have over gassing issues, just get the Griffin buffer, it's wonderful. If you have any other gassing issues, seal the room with plastic and enjoy.
Honestly you're just solidifying my want of a bullpup.
The VHS has some nice Starship Troopers vibes and shoots pretty dang nice.
The MDR and Tavor are going to have the best triggers available*, with the AUG being a close third.
*available means aftermarket upgrades, but they do exist.
@acdrz125 I'd get an AUG or a VHS both for Aesthetics, 20 inch barrels, and I don't have to think about the politics of the manufacturer.
@@lordhellfire153 I have the 16" VHS, I personally have no interest in the longer one.
The trigger pull is long but its not as bad as some people make it out to be. It could be much nicer, but shooting supported I find it easy enough to creep up to the break. Standing unsupported I hold roughly the sames groups as my fancy 2 stage trigger equipped ARs.
Lastly, cowitness height is ~1", so go for a 1.1" optic height. Scope rings for an MPVO or LPVO are easy, and the Primary Arms prisms sit at 1.1" on their low mount.
@acdrz125 ya know, 16" with a suppressor is probably the go to and MVPO is 100% the route I'd want to go.
And fuck people bitching about the trigger I fire my revolver DA only because it's fun.
Brassfacts out here validating my purchase decisions 😍😍
A flood of 18” uppers bout to hit /gafs.
I love these rifle concept videos. Now we need to know what the difference is between Urban DMR and Urban SPR.
“Wait so the ideal barrel length is 13.7-16”?”
“Always has been” 🌎👨🚀🔫
*Eugene Stoner has entered the chat*
* whips out 20” barrel *
14.5 is the correct answer
12.5 is the way, as John Noveske believed.
@@Trevor-gu8bb wrong
I think it’s a solid concept but I’m biased as I have built a similar rifle.
Currently it’s a 13.9” with a Vortex 2-10 FFP (at some point I want to add the secondary dot but not now due to budget) running a cloud defensive light, Griffin Explorr Can, and I would like to add a bipod as well.
Ballistically the 13.9 will work out to 600+, and locally I’m pushing it to get a 310 yard shot at the range.
I collected some Chrono data comparing the 11.5, 13.9, and 16” rifles I have, as well as suppressed/unsuppressed with 4 silencers on the 16”, my main takeaways were:
1. The 13.9 only lost 60 fps vs the 16” (2,975 vs 3,035) with Winchester M193 55 grain.
2. On the 16” rifle the data was so close, with one suppressor averaging below unsuppressed (the shortest can, 4.4 FPS below) and the the other averaging as much as 75.2 FPS faster (the longest can but also a .46 cal can) I don’t know that a suppressor truly has a measurable impact on velocity.
3. 62 grain 223 was only at 2,652.2 FPS with the 13.9 whereas the 16” was at 2,723.8, I feel like that’s kinda slow but I would like to get my hands on 556 loaded 62 grain.
Overall I like how the 13.9” shoots suppressed with a mid length gas system and it’s been relatively reliable except for the CMC trigger.
Congratulations you re-created the 2005 Marine Corps infantry rifle an M4 with a four by a cog. There are so many head shots during phantom fury. NCIS came into investigate.
Damn the marines out here aimbotting?
Wait till the army discovers this after adopting the XM7
*M16A4
@@Token_Black_Guyif I'm remembering things right, the amount of headshots was making it seem like they were executing these people. Turns out they were just that accurate and well if you can hit it, hit it
Running a 20" HBAR 5.56 chamber 1-8 twist with a 4-14x44 and a top dot over a KE Arms KP15 lower as my SPR.
My GPR is a 16" 5.56 pencil barrel in 1-8 with a 1-8x and a top dot. It's set up exactly the same as my 10.5 build. Same scope, same light, same positioning of the pressure pad, same LAM, everything.
I highly recommend something in the 4-14x range with a top dot if you're running an SPR. Especially if you're running an 18"+ barrel. Id even consider the Primary Arms SLX 4-16x44 with HUD DMR reticle or R Grid 2b reticle to be a good SPR scope on a budget. That extra magnification coupled with the HUGE amount of info you can pick up with the HUD DMR reticle makes it a very valuable tool. Having a top dot for the true 1x in a pinch is also a necessity for me.
I’m getting 2745 with that same load at 1400ft elv. 10 ft from the muzzle from a Faxon 18” so not sure whats up with your barrel. Dropping barrel length is the right choice for 99% of people who are likely to engage 150 yards or less however when you are trying to maintain terminal performance beyond 350yards that extra 1-200 fps is going to extend the ability of a projectile to fragment or expand an additional 100 yards. Look into the terminal threshold of the bullet you are using and you’ll find yourself reconsidering shortening the barrel when you realize you’ve got an over gassed .22
Love these hypotheses videos. Gonna do a criterion 16 hybrid with the arken 1-8
love that spray job. Looks awesome.
Came for the rifle, stayed for the seiko
11:35 I did the same thing, took my 16-in Geissele SD and built it in to a similar role, a convertible if you will. Topped with a S&B 1-8 Dual CC, Atlas bipod, Surefire SOCOM, BH Mk-262 Mod 1 C, it’s a .5 MOA to my range’s limited distance of 400yds. I say convertible because I can quickly remove the bipod and silencer to make it more CQB friendly, though I have SD builds of similar set up in 11.5 and 14.5 p/w running a Mini-2 silencer, EoTech w a 5x magnifier. All superbly accurate, but the 16-in gives me a good bit more velocity out the gate. All are set up to accept NV should the need arise.
In one of your videos you mentioned that you would give a bullpup a try. It would be great if you were to take a 16’ 308 a Desert Tech MDRX and put it against your SPR in a course with targets that reflect impact energy (even water jugs will do the trick). Take the Mantis handguard to cover your bipod needs on the MDRX. And I am sure you as a lefty will enjoy the forward eject feature.
That would be an awesome video.
Slick paint job amigo
16" SPR is 100% valid, as long as you get your barrel from a good manufacturer.
My 16" DD barrel, 1-8 ATACR, Polonium K, 77gr IMI combo gets me first round impacts at 6-800yd and has dinged silhouettes at 1000 yards.
Rocking a similar setup with a 12.5 barrel and pretty easy out to 700 then it gets difficult with high winds
@@legendsneverdie25 12.5 barrel is Rtarded
Rtardedly good and sub-moa Specwar
@@legendsneverdie25 I take it back
Mr. Deadpan..... you show emotion but still Deadpan. You're good man.
American suburbs have surprisingly long ranges between, like everything tbh. Roads, for example, are very wide. Especially multilane “stroads” Not to mention huge parking lots.
Another concept I've seen floating around is the USA rpk or civilian "light machine gun" its really just a heavy rifle meant for sustained rates of fire with high ammo capacity. I'd just like to see what you think of the concept and how it would fit in your small civilian group that you mentioned
I built something like this a while back: 20" heavy barrel, rifle gas and stock, 2-12 scope, binary trigger, drum mags, and a QD bipod.
Ended up being mostly fired in semiauto as a pseudo SPR but I was basically going for what I thought would've been cool for a "M27 for the regular guy". Can't wait for more people to do similar builds in the near future.
Love the video and the channel,I have a question do you or Hop have a video on setting up and the how to of setting up a dope chart for your gun?
you being on camera has brought the vibes up a lot, looks good mr metal alloy fact man
You own a Desert Tech MDX. Why are you clowning around with these builds .you have the one gun to rule them all
the mdrx is not a good gun. :(
Waiting your follow up .for me a dream gun . In the uk my dream gun is Kel tec 22wmr
I'd love to see your thoughts with an AB Suppressors reflex can on an SPR to see how that changes things - can you now rock an urban 18? can you GPR a 14 SPR? can you middle ground to a single 16 inch urban+rural SPR? etc
English?
@@DinoNucci Brass and Hop know what I mean, theyve done videos about this.
GPR = General Purpose Rifle. SPR = Special Purpose Rifle (this video). 18, 16, 14 are barrel lengths.
Pretty straight forward with the context clues in the video
Really like the paint job and the concept. I think it makes sense and I'm interested in this concept myself.
Sorry to be that guy but i'm gonna be that guy. I certainly don't mean to be a dick about it because I do enjoy all the content You and hop put out.
My take from this is:
Basically with this build we are back at a basic infantry grunt rifle build. A GPR or whatever acronym cool guy phrase one wants to use. It's a 16" do-it-all rifle/carbine. Neither a DMR or a CQB type build but it's versatile enough for almost any of the plethora of situations one can find oneself in. With a bit of planning, zeroing and dialing one can probably stretch it out to 500meters and hopefully have a decently lethal shot. As for room clearing it's not optimal but definitely doable. Been doing room clearing in narrow apartments with a 18", fixed stock HK G3 and although it's a bit clunky it's mostly about training and adapting the gear to the situation. The optic on top is what makes it sort of stand aside from maybe current issue standard grunt rifles that mostly use RDOs but from what i've heard standard issue rifles these days are being fitted with LPVOs/MPVOs aswell. Took that from your video "Who Has The Better LPVO? Army Vs USMC".
Anyways, keep up the good work! Cheers
24in gang, still short enough to swing around in a house but long enough 6.5 flips steel at 300y
Each day we get closer back to “Service Rifle” Builds, 500-300 yard rifles with okay CQB qualities.
that's just a GPR already. Basically anything now adays with a LPVO is a 500 yard gun.
That would be typically my go to.
This is a tad different.
Channel your inner Paul Harrell.
20" chads at it again
I'm really liking the CGS Helios DT on my spr setup so far. Very lightweight can, with a nice balance of noise/flash reduction and low back pressure.
Wat
@@DinoNucci I'm talking about a specific can that I enjoy on a similar rifle setup.
Long live the UPR! Concept vids give us something to talk about until the next one. I also see the recommendation for the UPR-Build vid on the Nova Group channel.
Tikka UPR GANG
I like many have a 18" DMR or SPR. But I also have 16" rifles with a LPVO of 1-6 and routinely shoot those to 300 yards with no problem. I've shot very accurately with the 18" guns I have out to 725 yards. Each have their own purpose for sure. The weight of a goof 16" barreled rifle with some type of glass with a loaded 30rd mag is going to weight almost 10 lbs. The 18" is going to be even heavier and most likely have a bipod to boot. The topic is an interesting one we could all sit around and talk about, but honestly having a DMR for an urban situation in this country with the likely hood of actually using it that way is so remote, it's almost not even worth talking about.
I think a pvs30 is an underrated consideration for something like this
Fun fact, an 18" heavy barrel rifle is arguably more terrifying objectively speaking.
Why 18 when you can go 20? Screw it, go 24.
@@CantoniaCustoms I said objectively. Subjectively that's a heavy rifle to carry and most people like not having bad knees.
@@gavindooly2375 you said arguably lol
@@CantoniaCustoms it kind of boils down to a big fat "it depends." Velocity? Sure. But at what cost? Compromises and such need to be addressed at the end of the day. But from an "on paper" type of view point greater velocity is considered a win.
A Criterion Core series or BA Hanson in 13.7 to 14.5 would be $$ for a build like this. I went with a Criterion core 13.9 and LPVO.
Same. 14.5 core with PA 1-8c
I was looking at Triarc. They also make a 12.5 midlength I want to run so I could have basically matching long and short uppers.
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz I have a couple barrels and the tapered barrel profile is my favorite. Takes a lot of weight off the front end.
If I build a shotgun, pcc, and a rifle, on one chassis, it is an SPR?
Up next: the sub-urban SPR.
For when you have the kid’s practice at 5:00 but societal collapse at 6:00
that's the pdw!
brASS facts and Hop. You guys have lightly touched on the team/group necessity and requirement. Maybe it’s behind the scenes footage, but would you do a part 2 of this UPR series and focus on your spotter/observation element. Alright.
Love your videos, love your content. You make me feel confident in my internal weapon nerdisms😅
I have an spr with a glx 4x16, but my shtf gpr rifle is a 13.7 BA hanson profile with a 1x10, piggy back red dot and that is my recce mini spr
13:24 I was impressed with the velocity of the AAC 77 OTMs from my 20-in FN M16A4 clone. It averaged just over 2,800 fps.! What does that mean besides increased velocity? Maybe accuracy loss, maybe poor terminal performance at short range… dunno, I just chronographed that, IMI 77 and BH Mk-262 on the same day from a 20, 16, 14.5, and 11.5 barrels.
16 inch, 4x ACOG, bipod, light. Have a nice day.
Is assfacts about to discover adding a 3-9 hunting scope to a standard 16" carbine?
I went from a 18” BA 416r SPR barrel to a 16” Criterion chrome lined HBar. Similar weight and feel with less out front.
Wrong
@@DinoNucci how am I wrong about the subjective experience I felt while using a Rifle I own?
@@deathtothewageslave easy. If you chose a heavy profile 16" barrel, you are objectively a potato
@@DinoNucci smh not my problem you’re a malnourished suburbanite
@@DinoNucci stop eating keto and hit the gym
You ever given some thought to giving up a little precision for a round with the terminal ballistics, and effective range of a good mid-weight bonded soft point?
absolutely. basically on anything that isn't something like this softpoint or bounded rounds do work.
@@BrassFacts You really don't like bonded softpoints on a type of SPR'ish setup?
@@mghegotagun it depends, I wouldn't hate it. But I think that would push me to just running a basic GPR
A 16 inch barrel is 500 yard capable with 5.56. a 1-6 LPVO is capable of doing 500 yard distances with training. Maybe a 1-10 if you want good ranging beyond that. And the original mk12 rifle I believe had a 16 inch barrel to do 500 yard things effectively. Anyone reading this please correct me if I'm wrong about that. But the mid taper, semi heavy barrel profile is a multirole profile that enables you to do a bunch of stuff. Basically, a 16 inch general purpose rifle with slightly more powerful glass up top and even without a bipod would be great for doing just about everything well enough to get by and be a good middle ground for use in those scenarios. Weird, it's almost like a general purpose rifle can do general purpose things. That said, this would be a great concept for forward operations and shock troops to use because it's a do-all rifle concept and you need a do-all rifle for those kinds of things.
I've found that an 18" to 20" fluted barrel will get you all the weight savings you need without significant penalties in heat, accuracy, etc. A 13.5" handguard will provide enough 'rail-estate' and additional weight savings. I put one less mag in my back pocket and shove my suppressor in there instead until it's needed.
Brassfacts any chance you can do a video on why people should have some degree of conformity in their gear with their chosen survivalist group?
Would be a good Rual Area Setup too.
Noticed you mentioned the PSA AAC 77gr ammo. I bought a few boxes of their OTM and their Sierra Matchking. Goal is to compare the 2 and see if paying $15/box vs $12 is worth it. Same applies for their 69gr with same offerings.
I’m guessing the extra $ isn’t worth it. Time will tell!!
It's not. I've compared the 2 on many different types of barrels and barrel lengths. AAC's OTM's were consistently more accurate than the SMK's were.
Good to know. I got a few boxes of each. Noticed today PSA increased prices again. Went up $0.50 l/box last week and another $0.50 this week.
@scott2228 thankfully, it's only .50 cents. Unlike some manufacturer's taking advantage the market and inflating the costs to capitalize on our dollars and the panic buying.
What mlok rail are you running? You never mentioned it on either videos. Hop commented that it was a nice rail, but no one said the manufacturer...