Newton vs Leibniz (feat. Hannah Fry) - Objectivity 190
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
- Hannah Fry returns to The Royal Society to investigate one of the juiciest debates in the history of science! More links below ↓↓↓
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Featuring mathematician and broadcaster Hannah Fry speaking with Brady.
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Hannah and Kieth. One is a mathematician, the other a head librarian... Together they fight crime!
I love your user name.
Now that's a show I'd watch!
Newton did it : when he was master of the mint, he personally tracked down counterfeiters and send some of them to the gallows. Not really a friendly guy...
Id watch that
@@beachboardfan9544 I'd*
Absolutely didn't come here just because of Hannah...
Totally not *wink* *wink*
Of course not. Why would you?
Schnoz.
Simp community rising. Although I'm 2 yrs late...
@@r3n_Nakamura what's wrong with sims, loved sim city
In both calculus and math history it was briefly mentioned that there was a controversy between Newton and Leibniz. I didn't know it involved a timeline of letters! Can you imagine a modern day version of this with a compilation of emails, tweets, texts, and saved instagram photos?
Video rants should maybe be added to the current list and who knows what the future will bring.
geniuses like this don't use instagram....
I like how they are super intellectual but then say "first inventor". How can you invent something more than one time, especially in such a close geographical and temporal scale?
@@brokentombot It's actually easier than it seems, when you consider that those discoveries were triggered by advancements in some other areas. Someone came up with some rough ideas, and a couple of geniuses independently thought that they can expand this.
@@Pharisaeus Sus. Pictures and proof please.
My favorite Hannah Fry quote " I thought it was an integral, but it was just a curly F."
A) Could watch Hannah Fry all day. B) Gossip! C) A++ video.
I hope you're subscribed to The Curious Cases of Rutherford & Fry on BBC Radio 4. Lots of Hannah Fry goodness.
@@aksela6912 It's crazy. I find out so much new stuff every day and I still can't believe it. I only just found out about CGP Grey and Brady's podcast about a week ago. Sometimes the internet is just too full of awesome.
@@Lupiscanis2001 So you're a fellow Tim then? ;)
D) Those Latinized names look kickass.
@@aksela6912 I only know one definition of Tim from urban dictionary and 99% of it does not apply to me :p
Hannah's enthusiasm is infectious, this is one of the best videos you've done Brady.
Yeah, and Dr. Fauci's laugh was infectious.
It should be corrected that at 4:30, it was not the first time someone integrated. Bonaventura Cavalieri had been integrated specific functions many years before Newton, and John Wallis in the generation before Newton had expanded the range of functions that integrals could be applied to. Newton (and Leibniz) were the first to join differentiation and integration together in a coherent comprehensive theory.
Should not forget about Alhazen.
Ferrusian Gambit interesting. I understand that Newton was the first to come with the idea of limits, it’s that but also questionable? The other point is finding the areas below a curve is not. The same as integration l: did this guys found a general approach ?
Or archimedes?
@@jaimeduncan6167 That's precisely the point, if your saying about Alhazen (who found the area under the Paraboloid using polynomials) this is just what archimedes did in the sense of finding areas and volumes of things.
But integration isnt just about areas and volumes!, its the inverse of differentiation.
Cavalieri like alhazen , could integrate x^n , cavalieri also came up with his wonderful principle.
I thought the big breakthrough Leibniz and Newton made was to prove that an integral is an anti derivative. I may be wrong but I’ve heard of Egyptians using infinitesimals in their calculations.
Leibniz invented the integral symbol : ∫ and also made calculus much "user friendly" than Newton's geometrical approach.
He also was more interested in the mathematical side of it rather than Newton who came to it via physics.
Anyway, both of them invented/discovered calculus at the same time via different ways.
Great video, thanks as always :)
Yet Newton gets all the credit
@@JafarChou If Leibniz couldn't figure out that space is not an order of things but what contains things, as Newton assumed and so does everyone else, there has to be a problem.
@@paulohara8967 Sounds like argumentum ad populum.
@@JafarChou Yes and no. Everyone that learns about calculus (or mathematical analysis, as we call it at my college) also learns about this dispute.
@Porco Rosso Genius :D
Well, Hannah has definitely won my prestigious Science Communicator Crush 2018 Awards and the jury decision wasn't even close. So there.
mine as well...
Penny Lane only 2018?
mine too for a few years, thanks to Numberphile
Those are three people having a good time. Love it!
Wiki: "The calculus controversy (German: Prioritätsstreit, "priority dispute") was an argument between the mathematicians Isaac Newton and Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz over who had first invented calculus. The question was a major intellectual controversy, which began simmering in 1699 and broke out in full force in 1711. Leibniz had published his work first, but Newton's supporters accused Leibniz of plagiarizing Newton's unpublished ideas. Leibniz died in disfavor in 1716 after his patron, the Elector Georg Ludwig of Hanover, became King George I of Great Britain in 1714. The modern consensus is that both men developed their ideas independently."
Wow, she was giddy. Mathematics fan-girling at is fullest. 😁
newton is a superstar.
Ashmeed Mohammed Yeah, he played guitar in that band, Queen :-)
I would be too picking out a book at random here. Books of legends? Yes.
@@MrHeroicDemon McAfee didn't whack himself
Leibniz: I've got it!
Netwon: Yeah? Well I loosened it up!
Commercium epistolicum means "exchange of letters", the word commerce comes from commercium (which in fact is a form of exchange) while epistula (letter) is the root of English words like epistulary (relative to letters).
Thanks, what would "exchange of ideas" be? Just curious.
Trying to sound smart via google.
I would say exchange of knowledge ref. the Greek word episteme (knowledge, science, understanding).
Thanks, Goryllo.
Loved that last shot of Hannah's book. Keep up the good work Ojbectivity, Brady and all the others that make this kind of content possible for the world to see.
I totally love Hannah Fry.
4:30 He is not the first Hannah. That sketch looks exactly like one made by Fermat in around 1640. There were also Cavalieri, Descartes, Wallis, Roberval and others. Newtons contribution was to realize the common idea of calculus in all these various contribution including (though not the first) to prove the fundamental teorem of calculus.
barrow was first to prove fundamental theorem i believe
Cavalieri's principle is a generalization of Fubini's Theorem.
The first humans doing integrals were Greeks. For example they sandwiched the area of circle between nr^2sin(π/n)cos(π/n)
And ancient hookers may have performed an integration.
This was a great Objectivity video Brady. I really enjoyed this one. 😍
I see Hannah, I hit the like. That's how I am.
SCHNOZ.
Hannah is my favorite!! Could watch her go giddy all day!
Quahntasy - Animating Universe Lol,I see you everywhere
Yay, Hannah! She's so magical! Her eyes...her excitement over this kind of stuff...!
I really like the concept of this particular video; to invite someone that is familiar with the field that is the subject of the item or document featured. I feel like it brings a new depth that makes the video even more interesting. I would love to see more of this concept in the future with other experts.
Man, Objectivity #91 was almost exactly 100 videos ago. When you first started this channel my initial thought was, "Oh this is neat but he's gonna run out of stuff about fifty videos in and then what?". I don't know how much stuff is in the Royal Society library but *clearly* I underestimated its contents by an order of magnitude
We've barely scratched the surface!
I think "an order of magnitude" is an underestimate of several orders of magnitude...
@@peterfireflylund If Objectivity goes on for another 500,000 episodes, you'll find no complaint from me :D
Hannah is my favourite :)
Maybe it's jsut me but I found the way the head librian was speaking really soothing and calming. I could definitely listen to that guy a while
Thanks for tuning in everyone! Just a quick message to say if you'd like to further support our channel and help us make more videos, please do consider sponsoring us on Patreon: www.patreon.com/objectivity
"I think it belongs on one of these shelves...don't you?, where's the Newton section?" - Hannah Fry 2018
Sorry to say I am all for the German... you really can't beat that wig...
Newton used his own hair -- boo, hiss!
To me, Leibniz' hair gives him a similar look to Brian May, guitarist for Queen, and quite the scientist himself.
Believe in Leibnitz, He got cookies
Wigs > science
I'm sorry to say again it's Moyseh
Did you also visit a German archive, to get another view on the matter?
Objectivity dream team trio.
Hannah is such a joy to watch.
I can't remember the last time I used Newton's notation for differentiation. It has been useless to me in studying differential geometry. Leibniz notation is much clearer when visualizing the geometry even if it's more to write.
This is interesting so I looked it up in some history books and it seems that Leibniz and Newton independently invented the same thing. However, Leibniz first developed integration and Newton differentiation. So they are both right and wrong at the same time.
Newton first used it in 1666 and Leibniz in 1675. The controversy is where Leibniz got inspired by letters he may have read from Newton during those nine years. But Leibniz developed the calculus further with a more approachable way than Newton, so both deserve credit.
I’ve seen someone say Newton set the seed and Leibniz watered it
Choco Leibniz beats Fig Newton. End of.
This is the best example of how academic conflicts have real world consequenses
"Fig Newtons were named after a town in Massachusetts, not the scientist!"
@@peterfireflylund While Choco Leibniz is indeed named after Leibniz, because the factory is based at the town where Leibniz lived. Another reason why Leibniz beats Newton.
@@peterfireflylund I was just about to channel sheldon cooper hahaha
Putting a book in the wrong section when Keith can see... RIP Hannah!
📓📔✒️
Oh? I love these glimpses of historical moments/writings which feature science and maths. Also, I feel a deep sense of wonder and of awe when we are shown the original handwritten pages.
This is such a fun one!
The librarian handling the book so softly and gently shows the importance of these valuable documents
This was in a way funny and entertaining, but also informative. I enjoyed this!
I had Codebreaker : Bletchley Park's Lost Heroes in the background this week. Suddenly I hear a distinctive voice I recognise. It was Keith! Talking about codebreaker Bill Tutte getting his Fellowship and signing the great book of autographs. He wore his hair a little shorter and more tidily combed back then!
I am a classical mechanics nut. It is really interesting to see how simple things become complex and interesting.
6:06 That’s Leibniz finding the derivative of x^2
So much fun! I need to keep watching these so I keep learning stuff. ;)
Another great video with a fantastic guest
Hannah is really fun. She makes a great teacher.
Thanks Hannah, i got excited as soon as i read the title of this video! Math passionados could never walk past such a find and not say something
My fav feud in history.
Here's a novel idea... why not give them both equal credit?
Why are we obsessed with crediting individuals for discoveries/inventions which included contributions/collaborations from others?
This.
Sir Edmund Hillary never wavered from the notion that he and Tenzing “summitted together.”
They both have equal credit in the discovery of Calculus, since they both arrived to the notion from a different perspective that is pretty much impossible to fake in such short amount of time, specially at the rate speed information spread at the time. Is just that the british are a tad jingoistic and think their s**t smells better, particularly when it comes to continental Europe.
But in an ironic twist of fate, we all use Leibniz notation for differential and integral calculus, simply because is far better than Newton's.
Yeah, I want credit for the Pythagorean Theorem.
i just love how excited they get over this stuff
I hope the royal society has stored a copy of Hannah's book and 400 years from now people will be discussing it
Yes, the world does use Leibniz's notation for differentials, but the British often use Newton's [dot, double dots as opposed to deltas]. Certainly when I was at school in England 50 years ago we used Newton's notation for calculus.
God, how much I love Hannah Fry !
I'm nott to crazy for Fig Newtons myself.
I can't believe that they are handling the manuscripts with bare hands.
Can we have a whole series just with you three thank you please
Yea, more Hannah. She's awesome.
Hanna Fry on objectivity; this is surely the best of all possible worlds.
Mathematics and I are not particularly tight, but who could resist seeing Dr Hannah Fry get excited over some juicy maths controversy?
She is enchanting :)
she really is.
😍
I found this channel really late but ngl, I'm kinda crushing on Keith. Could listen to him read these old texts all day.
Fascinating!
please do an episode on controversy surrounding Einstein's work, plagarism etc
4:38
Gloves?
You can see Hannah is excited.. :)
How many fries could Hannah fry, fry
if Hannah fry could fry fries?
Frightfully many, on Friday.
Ha!
I love this
4:29 The earliest integration is attributed to Archimedes in the Palimpsest called Stomachion
No, Archimedes' Stomachion is a fragment dealing somehow with a tangram-like puzzle. He did something recognizable to us as essentially integration in "On the Parabola."
This video has it all: An interesting backstory, excited presenters, witty banter and of course the obligatory 400 year old hot historical tea ready for spilling
No substance though. At some point those really intelligent people should say: "we just don't know".
Though not a mathematician I remember reading an article re astronomy ,back in the late 1600s early 1700 s,in which the writer specifically states that the continental Liebniz notation is far easier to understand rather than fluxions as is Newton’s notation.
Haha, I actually covered this in my comic. Thank you Brady and Keith for all the inspiration. ^_^
Putting Hannah's book on the shelf was hilarious. Also low key foundations of modern mathematics
Hannah! subscribed instantly.
was thinking about the water-drop physics dude today and ya'lls' video on his book, when I came across this. Glad I did.
your beautiful videos are like post-it notes in my mind
I wrote a paper for a college history class on this very subject some 50 years ago. I wish now that I had kept some of that stuff.
I love how giddy and excited Hannah is at the start of the video! I would be too!
Hannah really is delightful!
Important point A: Newton vs Leibniz debate doesn't really matter, they were both geniuses, and both of their notations are useful for different things.
Important point B: If you think Newton invented calculus you are dead to me.
Winning comment
#teamLeibniz
Go-go-go-Gottfried! W is for Winning! Leibniz!
Absolutely fascinating and delightful.
Good banter. The history of science is loads of fun.
Leibnitz first published his paper on differentiation in 1684. In 1686 he published another paper in 1686. He published a third paper on fundamental theorem in 1693. Newtown did not publish any thing on calculus in the seventeenth century. But he interacted with many of his friends through personal letters.
I kind of have a feeling we've not had a enough of the Leibniz story
Neither Newton nor Leibniz deserve credit. Fermat had done slope of a line tangent to a curve (differential calculus). Cavalieri had done area under a curve (integral calculus). Gregory found that differentiation was the inverse of integration (fundamental theorem of calculus). All in the generation before Newton and Leibniz.
#190 ... crazy. I remember when the first video came out and i thought how crazy it is that Brady makes yet another channel on top of all others not TOO long ago.
This was a lot of fun and I'm happy because I told someone about the Newton-Leibniz calculus kerfuffle a couple of weeks ago and seem to have got most of my facts right about it.
Awesome fun vid... you three need to do more!! ...ty :)
Hannah made this video watchable, love her
If you want this topic in long form check out The Baroque Cycle
Wow, what a great video. The history......had to be amazing to be there. I could spend days there. Thanks for the video.
Acredito que ver pessoas estudadas discutindo sobre assuntos acadêmicos pode paulatinamente me tornar um deles.
Love Hannah!
The Hello World audiobook is now available from US Amazon
Wow what a great sweater, love the colors.
is there a German language counterpart of the Objectivity channel? I wonder if they ever made a similar video featuring Leibniz
Keep up the splendid work Brady
Dr. Fry just glanced at the figure at time 5:31, and thought that Leibniz was working on the area between two curves - but actually he is working out a cycloid using the circle. In fact, the word "cycloeidi" appears to the right of the point E.
one thing to be added, he did all that without using a calculator ,just papers and notes and more papers and hundreds of pencils,the amount of brain work put in everything those mathematicians did..knowing that the human brain consumes in average 15-20% of our daily energy ,this people were the equivalent of today's strongmen finalists but not with body, with mind.awesome
Standing on the shoulders of the giants before you! I love maths!
I was not sure that Newton came up with Calculus: physics, motion, gravity, and the changing velocities of objects - all yes but not abstract mathematics which Leibnitz developed. He (Leibnitz) introduced much of the notation that is still used today, like the integral sign (∫) and the notation for derivatives (dy/dx)
Love these. Here's an interesting thought question which occurred to me while watching this one. We tend to say so-and-so "invented" such-and-such math. Since math describes the basics of the universe, would it be more correct to say they "Discovered" it?
Depends on your philosophical bent. Not many Physicists think that our math describes the universe directly; so they’d say that they had indeed invented a tool which can be used to model the universe.
It's still an open philosophical question. Platonicism vs. anti-realism
Cowboy Frank's Personal Videos nope maths is invented not discovered.
I LOVE HANNAH FRY. SHE AND KEITH ARE LIKE A MATCH MADE IN HEAVEN
ASMR squared
Hi Hannah!! congrats on the engagement ☺️