Tom Microphone Shootout (HoboRec Bull Sessions #28)
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- Collected some microphone to try out on tom recording. Pay attention to the cymbal bleed as much as the actual tone of the toms. I have pairs of Shure SM57, Shure Sm58, Sennheiser MD421, Sennheiser E604 and Milab VM-44
Shure SM57 - Full drum mix 2:38
Shure SM57 - Toms in solo 2:51
Shure SM58 - Full drum mix 3:04
Shure SM58 - Toms in solo 3:16
Shure SM58 without head grill - Full drum mix 3:30
Shure SM58 without head grill - Toms in solo 3:44
Sennheiser MD421 - Full drum mix 4:32
Sennheiser MD421 - Toms in solo 4:44
Sennheiser MD421 v2 - Full drum mix 4:56
Sennheiser MD421 v2 - Toms in solo 5:08
Sennheiser e604 - Full drum mix 5:21
Sennheiser e604 - Toms in solo 5:34
Milab VM-44 - Full drum mix 5:47
Milab VM-44 - Toms in solo 5:59
Thanks to Mats Hoas at MH Ljudteknik, the guys in Grande Royale and Milab microphones.
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www.milabmic.com/
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Cheers!
Ulf
Thanks to:
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the 604 slays bleed. for my purposes, that's what i'd go for.
yep it maybe sounds a little less prestigious but the rejection is impessive, makes gate-ing easier . sound wise the MD421 definitely wins to me
Just wanted to thank you for the great work...and ALSO to thank all the comments below. I’ve got several 58’s, and three 57’s, and I’m kinda new to recording. So part of me was like “spend more and get a better sound’... but I actually love the sound I’m getting. So watching the shootout, and then reading the comments from people digging the sound of the 58’s (without the grill), and now confident that I can rock the house as is.
Thanks fellas !!!!!!!!!!!!!
MD421 has a bass roll-off switch. Maybe that's why one sounded different from the other
Thank you for this. Tried the SM58 on the floor tom and my jaw dropped on the floor. Amazing!!!
dude the 58's sound bad ass! the milabs sounded awsome too, also less cymbal bleed! i liked the milabs the best though!
Yeah the 58s differed more from the 57s than I thought. I think the Milabs has just as much bleed as any of the others, it's just not as harsh. Thanks for the comment!
I agree the 58s sound great! Very surprising. Good job man, keep the vids coming. Got any vids on getting your first hardware compressor? I just upgraded my sound card and i am trying to get some Tom mics and then i am thinking of getting a hardware compressor. Something for us noobs would be cool. Thanks man!
Hey, did you like the 58 with or without the grill? Thanks
There's a reason why so many records have been made with the MD421....RICH & DEEP SOUNDING....
Love it
I've got two and haven't used them much, but why do they sound not as good ?
@@christopherdunn317 i have one too and don’t understand the hype about 421 on toms. They sound like crap to me, i even prefer 57’s of toms. Wondering if im doing anything wrong
@@Dwolfmusic I think on toms there good, but on floor toms from the demo's i watched sound better with a beta 52 than 421 !
Small condenser on toms, not really working for me. SM58 surprisingly awesome. I have e604 here, they have a good semi-dark sound that works well, but I prefer the D112 on floor toms for a huge pow. e604 live on the rack toms for me, and sometimes snare drum. 57's and 421's were kind of a tossup for me, seems workable, certainly but maybe not my go-to. Anyway fantastic video, I was very pleased to wake up and have a new Hoborec video in the queue.
I've also used the D112 on the floor when I thought there was something missing. Good tip!
58's with or without the grill most definitely!!! I'm really shocked at how good they sound... good upload friend!!!
Shure 57 and 58's are awesome. The Sennheiser 421's have a lot of cymbal bleed.
Your video helped me to choose the mics for the upcomming drum recording.
Hey man just want to say that I appreciate you doing this you sold me on 3 e604 mics for my toms! Thanks
That’s awesome! Good luck with the recording 😁
Ive been building my drum studio for about 4 years. I started out with all 57's on my rack toms and snare top and Beta 57 on the bottom. Ive been using a Sennheiser e602 on the floor tom. I just bought a couple of e604s for the rack toms and the difference is amazing. The 57's are certainly usable and sound great, but had never tried anything else. I'm going to see how it compares on the snare next!
When do people finally realize sm58 has the same body and capsule than 57. so basically if you would match the space and angle and play 100% consistent you are getting the exact same sound from a 58 without the grill. Been using this „trick“ for recording guitars for years. Btw if you don‘t believe me ask shure....
Almost. The SM57 also has a resonator disk that gives a higher output around 5k. This might be the explanation to why the SM58 seems to have a bit more bottom, it actually has less top.
@J WAV IT IS bassically the same mic. offcourse without the grill. body and the capsule aswell as the electric components. thats not a claim its just a fact... go ahead and ask shure, this is what i did years ago. German distributor was happy to talk about it. i guess this is no secret anymore
@@hoborec that´s possible but capsule and electronic wise it is the same. so if you take of the grill and maybe boost 3db at 5k... you end up with the same result. i think this info can be usefull for many people. for example bands that need 58´s for rehearsal anyways. just take of the front grill and use it as tom / snare / git mics for demos. no need for another bunch of 57´s
@J WAV doesn´t make up for the fact that they are basically the same. and there is no doubt that these slight "external" adaptions that will change the sound a little bit can be matched to make them sound similar. as i said i am doing this for 10 + years now the results are very comparable. offcourse as they are basically the same. the only thing i would say you are right: if you´re a live musician and can´t control the sound as detailed as in the studio. that´s where you can say ok. i like this or that better and i´ts just like that without any tweaking. but that being said i would use a 604 that slays bleed.
www.shure.com/es-CO/desempeno-y-produccion/louder/faq-whats-the-difference-between-the-sm58-and-the-sm57
Woah the SM58 without the grill was totally not what i was expecting.. Very cool!
Great video thanks! I have 3 toms and use a sm58 without the grille, a md 421 and a Beyer M88. When I get more money I'll try to get all the same mic
All sounded great. The drums are tuned good. That is the biggest reason why they all sound good. With that said, I like the e604.
BTW, 57s and 58s have the same capsule. With and without grille, very minimal difference. Maybe a touch more airy without.
Awesome shoot out! I've learned more from ylur channel in the last month than i have from most channels in the last year! I love all of the diy videos you do!
the only problem i have with your channel is that im running out videos to watch haha. Lifetime fan. keep it coming man.
Wow that's amazing to hear. Thank you soooo much!
Haha nice one ULF! It’s been a while since you did this video, So I’m wondering if you did get some tom mics as a birthday present? 😁
604’s is a nice microphones and a Classic in Live sound.
But I think the 904:s are a little bit better with little more treble and punch. They are also a bit more durable since they are made of metal. Perfect when you have wild hard hitting punk drummers on stage.😂
Also interesting about the 421:s I have 3 new ones and they sound about the same.
Have you tried the Lauten Tom mics? They seem to have the benefits of condensers like the milab but with better rejection.
Very pleasant surprise with the SM58,s and I liked the bleed. The E604 were disappointing both in solo and bleed. Thanks
+Derek really! I kind of liked the e604 too hehe
e604 sound amazing, best ones for me.
agreed.
like any mic, it comes to personal taste on the sound wanted and experimentation, there's no right answer on choosing a mic. it will depend on how it will sound on the full mix.
Of course, but I think these kind of shootouts are good to have some sense of what the difference are to make it easier to make a choice. I mean it's pretty hard to wait until a finished mix before you choose microphones?!
You're right. The shootout you made was excellent 'couse you use mics that are not regulary used when recording drums. What I mean is there are no rules of thumbs here, of course there are workhorse mics for a given task, but you cannot be close minded in trying other mics. The result can be even better in the full mix. This is why i thanks this kind of shootouts, not everybody has the time for doing this.
the 604s are amazing for live sound.
They reject so much background noise, just fantastic.
Plus, they're very low-profile, since they attach to the drum intself. So you'll save a couple of mic-stands
I've got 4 of em and I dig em alot. They're strong and light weight (bodies AND mounts) being made of graphite. They do bob around a bit tho, and I do wonder if that causes any phasing or sound problems 🤔
@@eastbaymauiboy Any movement that changes the distance will in theory create phasing. But since they're so close the source compared to the other mics, I doubt there's any audible difference.
Remember, they bob around WITH the drum keeping pretty much the same distance to the sound source anyway.
@@modvind
Yeah, I dunno if it makes a difference sound wise.
Well, it is mounted to the tom, so it bounces with the drum, but also independently. The mount shaft acts like a spring, and it bobs up and down, opposite of the drum, changing the distance from the head
As a Live Sound engineer I am working with the 604 (provided by the sound companies) since the early 2000s. I was surprised, how good they blend out the surrounding, I never realized this in a live situation. I should do a comparison with my own Beyerdynamic-Opus drum micro set from the 2000s . . .
the opus mics have horrible bleed on them. The 604's are where its at for controlled bleed at a good cost :)
The 421s are Model II and U5. The U5 is the older one that has less bass response than the modern Model II.
My xp is that the model II does it best but the 58 was a cool surprise
Awesome!! VM-44 is the winner for me! Been gravitating towards my VM-44s for a long time. I have a bunch of 421 but the cymbal bleed always felt so harsh in comparison with vm44 or akg 414...
The 414s are nice, but even one step more expensive hehe. Looking forward to the amazing mic shootouts we can do at the coming studio!
Absolutely awesome video, thank you for doing this one!
I actually really liked the E604's and the SM58 sans head the best.
Man, I love SM58s on toms! Would you say Sennheiser e604 sounded similar? The smaller package is quite appealing...
great video,
thanks a lot for this - also really awesome channel.
your videos helpin' me a lot to find the right equipment for my small home recording studio.
Keep on doing this great work.
That was a fun shoot out, and I was pleasantly surprised by the 58's. I mean everybody's got some of those in a pinch right?.
I just picked up a used Sennheiser e600 set with three e604's. I take it you wouldn't hesitate to record with them?. Where would you place them in this test?.
+EastBay MauiBoy You're right. I wouldn't have a problem working with them. Not sure where to place them, but I like that they had lots of bottom end.
e604 more focused, less bleeding.
MD421 has huge sound (body and attack).
And sm58 surprises with good sound and few bleeding also.
e604 and sm58 for me.
Hands down!
(I do not comment about Milabs cause its out of my budget... and also because in the 'less bleeding criteria', I think e604 is the undiscussable winner)
that Mi-Lab sounds CRISP on that ride compared to the others
Great comparison! Personally i always try to get as close as possible to the drumheads with the mic without having too much ring and ask the drummer to place the cybals as high as possible until he still can play it comprotable, this minimized the bleed also imo. there are many tricks like foam around the mic to reduce blled it would be cool to hear them compared
are you sure? the best are sm58 without the grill and the old sennheiser md 441, which comes from Germany, so am I; very intuitive shoot out, helps a lot, thank you hobo rec
Love the music in the trailer! Congrats!
The “42157” mic clip works great on toms as it combines the MD421 w/ a SM57.
2:51
3:18
3:44
5:09
5:35
VM44 är en personlig favorit. Funkar till allt! Och allt låter skitbra i dem!
604:an tyckte jag lät bra som trummick, speciellt att den läckte så lite.
Förvånad över att 58:an funkade så bra. Tyckte det blev lite öppnare utan grillen, kan vara inbillning lite.
421:an lät bra när den nya satt på golvpukan, annars ganska meh...
I vilket fall blev det tydligt att det gjorde ganska liten skillnad totalt sett när alla mickar fanns i mixen. Soundets viktigaste del verkar sitta i OH. Och det tyckte jag lät riktigt bra med alla mickar.
Får ge dig en eloge för att du höll testet så konsekvent och tydligt! Bra jobbat!
Ja man skulle ju definitivt kunna jobba med vilken som helst av dom. Men jakten på 1% kan ju vara viktig i slutändan.
Absolut. Och framför allt så blir ju flera 1% ganska många i slutändan.
As a side note, I’m re-watching this on a 4K tee vee and man this is great quality!! What did you film this with?
Oh, Thanks! Don’t always have time to quality check stuff but sometimes it turns out pretty good I guess haha. It’s a Lumix GH4 camera with their cheapest 25mm lens.
Have you tried the PRIMACOUSTIC - CRASHGUARD ? I theory it makes so much sense but i never had the chance to try it
Hi! It seems the clips are not level-matched properly, which makes for a flawed comparison. Also if I may suggest put the same clips after eachother (full mix v.s. full mix and solo vs solo). I see the video is quite old, so maybe you have realises this by now haha.
E604 wins for me. Added bonus, they had less bleed than the others, they barely get the snare, major plus. I wonder how the E604 would react clipped to a snare when making rim shots, does it transfers to the mic and make a massive unwanted noise?
Condensers on toms rule!
You should try Audio-Technica ATM450, they are reasonably priced, side-adress(great to position in tight drumsets) and can handle a lot of SPL. Also, cymbal bleed sounds really nice.
Hey, thanks for a great tip!
Thank you for your excellent videos!
Yea, I've been getting more and more into condensers as spot mics. Dynamics are fine and all, but the bleed sounds so bad that you end up doing a shit ton of post processing to get rid of it. Last week I tried mk 012 on toms and suddenly there was no more gating, debleeders, expanders or any other overly complex tricks to be done. Yea, I had more bleed in my tom mics than usual, but it complimented the overheads in such a way that I felt it was useless to take it out. Now I only need proper drum tuning, a bit of eq and compression and I'm done! Might go back to dynamic mics if the song calls for a unnatural punchy drum sound, but if the goal is to represent what I'm hearing as faithfully as I can, then bye bye dynamics!
did you hear those e604????? sounded great
All are usable but MD421 for the win!
Not at all bad drumming!!!
@HoboRec have you ever tried Audix D4 mics on toms, had great results with them, especially on big a low tuned toms.
Hello, fantastic video!
Can you suggest me what you prefer between the old MD421 and the MD421 II? I'm very undecided which version to get, I usually prefer the sound of the older version but I'm afraid to find one that is somewhat not properly functiong anymore since I'd have to buy it online and cannot try it.
Thanks
Hmm not sure. I’m not really a big fan of 421’s. Too much annoying bleed. I too would be worried about the functionality when buying old mics I can’t test. You should have a look at the 441 or 541 too!
@@hoborecOk, I believe I got distracted at some point of the video, I see that your favourite were the Milab, thanks!
The Milab was amazing
I always use the sm58
and it's great for toms.
I’m really interested in microphones, but not in drums. However, I own 3 of these, so I was curious. I own an SM58, two SM57, and I’ve owned 2 Sennheiser MD421 since 1984. On vocals, guitars, strings etc. they each have a very distinctive sound. On drums they all sound almost the same to me. Sorry. I’m just not used to listening to drums. Men tack i alla fall.
Thanks, brother. Good shoot out.
e604 was great and unexpected. Ears don't lie. MD421 was a disappointment. I'm thinking of selling my md421 for 3 e604 now. I didn't know I needed those, but now I do. They sound like they would be excellent at blending in with dark room mics or bright overheads and vice versa.
Hi Ulf ! What's that track you're using in the beginning and the end ? It sounds mad !!
Great review!
Milab!
All the 57 Vs 58 people. Regardless of their slight differences, if you can't EQ a 57 and a 58 to sound extremely similar, you have problems mic choice ain't gonna fix.
421s for the win, but I'm really surprised by the sm58s.
Hmmmm ... I'd take Old 421 > VM-44 > 58 > e604 > 57 ...
But that was disregarding bleed ... The VM-44 were next worse for bleed after the Old 421, so ... it's a bit of a push (better Mic has more bleed ... :/ ...)
Makes the 58 a pretty great, budget option!
I preferred the 58 with the grill ... but maybe it would cut/sit better without the grill, in some situations ... ?
+Kieren Moore yeah the vm-44 has lots of bleed, but it's close linear so it sounds good and doesn't screw that much with the rest of the drum sound I think.
He man what are you using these days on toms for heavier punk or metal bands? I am looking for something else, E604s are just not doing it for me anymore.
I got myself a bunch of Milab VM44. Not cheap but soooo good.
@@hoborec Yeah I saw that video and it def. had a very nice natural sound, even the bleed. So let me ask you this, I run a Universal Audio x4 and a Focus rite octo 8 pre. If it were you , would you go for another universal Audio interface like the x8p (way more expensive) or two VM 44s. Trying to figure out my best approach, the UAD stuff has taken my game up quite a bit but also mics i feel are going to be the source. Have any input?
@@thomaswhudson I mean, the focus rite pre's are not bad and the microphones would make the bigger difference. Personally I would go for a pair of vm44's first. Use the UAD x4 on the most critical sources and fill it out with the UAD.
@@hoborec Great info. One more question, do you have any experience with Earthworks DM20 or Shure beta 98 and how do they compare to the VM44s?
@@hoborec Yeah i have the x4 on the kick, snare and overheads. Everything else goes through the focusrite.
Cymbals are very different with Milab VM-44.
The e604s are a great bargain I think.
That drumkey in the bass drum kinda hurts my brain =D
Haha, sorry 😂
I might be wrong, but it sounds like Milabs are clipping internally? Not unusual when close miking drums with condensers. Do they have a pad?
Hey! Yeah they have a 12db pad and have a max spl of 140db so I think they should be alright.
It’s nearly impossible to se the microphones on a black background. A white or grey T-shirt would have helped.
What are you using for overhead mic's?
from this comparison i think the 58 sounded great i own a 421 but too expensiv to ve smashed by my drummer
what did you use for the rest of the drum mix?
Ever tried Audix D4?
Yes, but it was a long time ago. Or maybe it was the D6. I should probably try it again some time.
cool. I now see I asked the very same question one year ago hahahahahaha, didn’t catch that yesterday.
Md421 v2 sounded best to me on full mix.
md421's all day!
Nooooo i really don’t get them 😂
@@hoborec I bought a couple of them. Bought into the hype. For the last 5 years I've fought them with every recording for shitty drummers, great drummers, controlled drummers. e604 it is! md421 look soo cool though. But no one is going to see them when listening to the records ahahahah..They just gonna hear its shitty sound. No more.
video starts @ 2:57
Thanks! Should probably make those marks myself.
E604 for FT, MD421 for TOM
Hell yeah! We would love to record with this guy!! Thanksforsocializing.com
I like the E604 better
421 V2 for me!
+Chazz Hill-Hayr it sure has some great low end.
421 must be
Cool test, and proof again, that the md 421 are not worth the price. I've got 3 Sm57s with a 90° clamp from wilkinson audio, which work fine. I'm not a fan of the 57s, but on toms they're pretty good. They are cheap and can handle EQ very well.
Some other great alternatives for tom micing would be the Heil Pr 31, Beyerdynamic M201 and the Audix D6. You definitely should try them. :-)
Yeah, I still like them for some stuff. But maybe not tripple as good as any other standard dynamic. I want to try that Wilkinson adapter too!
I have a 57 with that same clamp. It changed the way my 57 sounds. It captured so much more bleed from the hats (used on snare). It nearly ruined that session for me. I think it's worth to get the actual 90 degree 57 although I haven't tried one.