I think it stumps people since Mohgwyns palace isn’t effected by beating him! I am talking gameplay wise though and not lore wise which may just be the case!
@@py1983 The golden order is kind of fickle, in sellia the sword monument directly states why Radahn is called the starscourge. He stood tall in sellia protecting the town by battling the stars. The specifics evade us, and could be tied into many things like his loyalty to the golden order and his siblings heresy. I think the original motive was simply to protect sellia, but halting the star’s accomplished more goals than one.
@@k2geekd there also needs to be something said about his inability for change. Radahn is Carian, and it is Carians SPECIFICALLY who grow up studying the stars as their fates. Radahn halts the stars while KNOWING that his fate is tied to them. He clearly doesn’t want something to happen/doesn’t want change (I have theories that he halted his own fate, knowing that it will result in an unending battle called the Shattering - and he is just a war general who craved constant battle) A lot of the qualities we deem as Radahn being “noble” or “honourable” mainly comes from the fact that he fears evolution. Hell, even his iconography (being proud of his red hair/emulating Godfrey’s imagery) suggests he fears being himself - and he prefers to cling to the past than to push towards a future Also, Radahn can’t seem to get rid of his horse so he conquers a completely unique set of Magic School just to ride him (shout out Ratatoskr for this detail). His inability for change. Malenia poisoned him with stagnating rot… which is ironic, considering Radahn was already stagnating looong before the Shattering War. Almost as if, Malenia’s Caelid nuke was destined to happen to Radahn. He is the embodiment of stagnation.
also, all that blood from Radahn’s arena seeping down into Mogwyn palace (+ the new line from the DLC voice over about “blood must be spilled in that place…”) so maybe Mogh also chose the location for all the bloodfall (to either suit his purposes, or Miquella is 2 steps ahead and using it to water a new - shadow? - haligtree?)
I like this theory. Jerren secretly working for Mohg and recruiting powerful warriors to give Radahn a “warriors death,” thinking this is what Radahn would want. When in reality, he’s trying to kill Radahn to prevent him from holding back the stars and outer gods. So he’s trying to get as much help as he can. Radahn is fighting for his life, actually trying to stay alive to protect the lands between and Ranni, Malenia and Mohg are trying to kill him for their own plans 🫠🫠🫠
To be fair, Ranni wants to keep the Gods away herself. In her eyes Radahn is just keeping up the status quo. No clue what Miquella has planned, but I like to think that since Malenia is cursed by an Outer God too he too want to keep them away.
Radahn wasn't holding back outer gods at all. He was holding back the fate of demigods that is in celestial bodies in space. Astel, Natural born of Void isn't a god or outer god or even outer god pet. Its just a space alien that land in land between through the crash because when we kill him it says "legend felled" same text used for Ancestor spirit, and Lichdragonnot not "demigod slain" or "God fell".
Interesting. I had suspected Malenia would have fought Radahn at Miquella’s behest specifically because he was wanting to bring about the eclipse but knew he couldn’t because of Radahn.
@@muramasa870 eclipse wasn’t able to occur, because Radahn was holding back the stars and another attempt has not yet happened since he was killed. 😂🤣😒
One new point of lore we have is that Miquella departed his flesh into the shadowlands WILLINGLY. So I actually think that Malenia went to fight Radahn to make Miquellas return possible, to open a way back for miquella by freeing the movement of the stars. So Mohg could've taken his body while Malenia was fighting Radahn, which was not really considered before... because there was no correlation between the stars and miquellas fate
i don't think that's the case because as far as i know until we kill mohg and tell gideon about him not a single person knows how or why did miquella left the haligtree so most likely mohg went there unnoticed and stole miquella and left without anyone knowing and all that while malenia was out fighting radahn (most likely)
@@Drenosir what I said only changes that Malenia didn't know mohg took Miquella, nothing else. if anything what you said corroborates that Malenia didn't overtly go after Radahn to get to Miquella - it was a secret plan. and why would Malenia go after Radahn if Miquella was safe with her? that only enforces my theory that she needed to stop Radahns force over the stars for Miquella to return... I'm confused where what you said contradicts my comment
@@chainclaw07 i meant more something like that Malenia went out to kill radahn so that the eclipse would work and radahn was stopping stars so that it doesn't and Goldwyn doesn't return and then when Malenia fights radahn miquella gets stolen by mohg
@@Drenosir so... the reason Malenia goes is different but everythting else the same... also - Goldwyn doesn't return? his spirit was killed together with Rannis body to form a deathmark. Godwyn is dead in spirit but his body lives on, infecting the world with those who live in death. maybe you mean Miquella went to the shadowlands to bring him back, and needed the eclipse to do so? I guess that fits
@@chainclaw07 yeah maybe but about Godwyn miquella was devoted to bring him back in a way and to do that he needed the eclipse which we know for some reason didn't work (most likely because or radahn) and we also know that miquella went to the land of the shadow (shadow and eclipse could be connected) so who knows maybe we just have to wait those few months and everything will be revealed to us
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh... that MIGHT be possible but there's a decent chance that's a coincidence. I've done a decent bit of ER modding and all those messages are referenced as numbers that are really close in value, it could be a hidden detail but it's more likely someone hit the wrong key on accident and never noticed bc it's not a super obvious mistake.
@@Ryan-nm8pw but he invades Sellen when you cooperate with her. He is literally a red. An invader. I never considered that that may be because he’s a bloody finger. I suppose it’s just as likely that he is a bloody finger as it is that it’s an accident.
This is a great video, I think you’re spot on about the eclipse and Mohgs desire to remove Radahn and Malenia from the chessboard as potential competitors for the new dynasty, however, my one question is involving the theory that Mohg framed Radahn as hiding Miquella. The potential flaw I see in this speculation is that we know that upon her defeat, Malenia is returned to the Haligtree “waiting” for Miquella to return. If she believed that he was in Radahn’s possession and she failed to retrieve him, why would she and the other followers of the Haligtree wait in this fashion? Through that evidence it’s implied that Miquella’s disappearance was in large a mystery no one had solved. Again, amazing video my man, this proved to me you deserve more recognition, just wanted to throw that bit of questioning into the narrative
I figured she got her ass beat so bad she had to get carried out so it didn’t matter what she went there for she couldn’t even get herself out alone, still bae tho
right, a lot is more headcanon, that aspect i don’t think is true at all! I truly think Malenia went to fight radahn for the same reason ranni wanted the tarnish to figh him, because of him halting the stars. That’s even more reason for mohg to ALSO want him dead, he literally had the fate of every demigod at a standstill
Interesting, Jerren being a Bloody Finger makes a lot of sense! I just thought of the "Bloody Finger Vanquished" message as the game's default for defeating a dark phantom, but I should have known!
Great video, that catch on Jerren is insane! I had no idea about that 1.0 Dialogue! Though, from my perspective the Sun and the Eclipse are symbols and not supposed to be literal.
Thank you so much! It's amazing all the tiny details you can catch with a wholly new perspective. And I can definitely see the appeal for interpreting the Sun and Eclipse as symbols! But for me, ever since I saw the Two Fingers, I've defaulted to taking the lore very literally 😅
@@garrulousgoldmask I wanted to come back and say that the catch on Jerren is actually so insane because it almost certainly confirms that Jerren is a Tarnished and the body that Sellen is occupying is a Tarnished body, since Bloody Fingers are Tarnished recruited by Mohg and only invade other Tarnished. If Jerren is a Tarnished that means he either returned with all of the other Tarnished after the Shattering OR more likely he is one of the Tarnished who stayed behind (as per the Rusty Anchor). Seeing that Jerren is a character who wears a mask, like we have seen in the DLC trailer I think we can tie him as a character who was around the same time as the Land of Shadow was relevant in the Lands Between.
It's wholly possible that it's not that at all. Dung Eater can invade you and he is not a recusant or a bloody finger. Alberch is also neither of these things. They both get the 'INVADER VANQUISHED' pop-up and whilst Jerren definitely does have the bloody finger pop-up, it's more than likely a mistake on FromSoftware's part. @@JackisaMimic
Nice video! Finally someone wants to talk about this. It doesn't make sense that defeating Radahn is just a random event FS adds to access the DLC. You either need Ranni's relationship, access to Eternal City, or some major lore reason for this to make sense. It seems all the major lore creators in our community are not talking about this.
1. The Golden Order does not follow patrilineal succession. Instead, Empyreans are chosen by the two fingers who may themselves one day ascend to Godhood to lead the Order. Radahn never had a chance at the Elden Ring without overthrowing the Golden Order, same as Mohg. 2. Radahn's blocking of the stars wasn't due to him trying to stop the Eclipse. It was him protecting Sellia in the "Starscourge Conflict". From what and why is not exactly clear. Holding up Ranni's fate and blocking the Eclipse were side effects, not the goal. 3. As you yourself point out, Radahn's death was necessary in order to allow the Eclipse to happen. This is why Milenea traveled to Caelid to challenge him. In not fully finishing him off, the Eclipse didn't occur. But Mohg stealing Miquella had nothing to do with the conflict with Radahn. 4. As to why you must defeat Radahn to enter the DLC: probably because once you have done what his sister could not, only then will Miquella take interest in you.
I love this theory because I have always believed that was the case with Miquella wanting Radahn taken down to allow the eclipse to fulfill, however I do not believe what you said about Malenia traveling to Caelid to confront Radahn because she was looking for her brother makes sense, plus her believing Radahn is lying also feels out of character, PLUS having Miquella being kidnapped in front of her, in front of the single being responsible for Radahn’s current state and the one who has the specific title of “Blade of Miquella”, it just seems weird that Mogh would get away with that unnoticed by Malenia. I believe Malenia took action on behalf of her brother to take down Radahn in order to proceed with the eclipse as I’m sure she knows her own twin’s desires and plans, and while fighting with Radahn, Mogh being so close to the area noticed, and took advantage of an unprotected Miquella and kidnapped him, and you also find the portal to Mogh’s palace in the consecrated snowfields very near the Haligtree. I could be wrong but that makes more sense to me
I think it's simpler than people make it out to be: For the series of events, basically: Miquella's mission required the Eclipse. Radahn held the constellations in place, thus preventing an Eclipse from being possible. Malenia marches on Radahn to have him release the stars. Mohg sneaks in and steals Miquella AFTER Malenia has already left the Haligtree. Radahn refuses to release the stars, thus war ensues. Malenia fails to kill Radahn and is returned to the Haligtree while trying to quell the Scarlet Rot. Mohg is aware of the situation needing Radahn's death, so he has his subjects orchestrate an event to lead to Radahn's death since now Malenia, having discovered Miquella's absence, has no reason to pursue Radahn further. And yes, I believe Mohg wanted Radahn dead in order to allow the Blood Star to empower him.
mohg used the consecrated snowfield waygate, no? it’s covered in blood, guarded by a noble, and a nearby ghost said “mohg u bring back miquella u dirty dog” or something
I’m of the impression that sending gate is fairly well known in certain areas of the lands between thanks to the albinaurics. I believe in their search for the path the the Haligtree, a good many of them that actually made it that far may have stumbled off path and came across the sending gate. That’s why In mohgs palace most albinaurics are found sleeping, possibly once they are “initiated “ so to speak, they rest after a long perilous journey. With the influx of albinaurics a noble was placed there sort of like security
Personally, I saw that waygate as a way for Mohg's forces to intercept the Albinaurics headed to the Haligtree. I don't think Mohg used it because you'd still have to access the waygate guarded inside Ordina to get to just the top of the Haligtree. (Though it's quite possible that Mohg is the one who set it up!)
@@garrulousgoldmaskI believe the waypoint was used by the albinuracs rather than mohg himself. Maybe they knew miquella was taken and attempted to bring him back to the haligtree but failed miserably once they arrived?
So many things keep coming back to him. Being at the very least one of the most powerful beings in the land, no matter your goals, is going to put targets on your back and set others to use you in their plans. The idea that Mohg orchestrated Radhan's downfall to Malenia's rot is intense.
I feel basically that the outter god named formless mother is was influencing mogh to use miquella to bring in her age but like miquella they both needed destined death to do what they wanted same as ranni Destined death is the rune they all are fighting for so that they can fuse it with the gods they each serve Ranni - astrology Miquella - golden order Mogh - formless mother And we know who these key Demi gods are associated with
Absolutely insane, this video was essentially my conversation with my brother on Friday, I was wondering when a video talking about these links would show up
I love these theories! I really hope that Godwyn is gonna be the final boss of the DLC. The theory is that as Ranni has two souls/spirits, Godwyn may have two bodies. That would be an epic boss fight. 😄 And we could finally get to see him in action. He and Miquella are still quite a mystery, even though their subtle influence is everywhere in the Lands Between.
My thoughts are that potentially his arena will get reused as a whole area. It takes up a ton of room on the map for no reason after the boss fight. Maybe the blue flower area where the ships arrive?
Glad to see people are finally starting to realize Radahn is no innocent saint and that he’s just a prideful god wannabe like the rest of his family. Morgott was right this whole family is mess 😂 Awesome video btw
Also this way ensures that Messmer will not be considered a demigod you would have to kill to unlock Leyndell because you would’ve already killed two (Mogh and Radahn) If what we know is true, Messmer would not have had any involvement in the Shattering and thus would not be considered a target by the greater will
Absolutely love these theories. Well done! I also wonder at what state of decay was Malenia's mind when she marched on Caelid. We know her mind is gone to a substantial degree by the time we show up at the base of the Haligtree. Interesting stuff
Thank you so much! And that's a great point about Malenia! I hadn't thought that her mind might have already been in some state of decay as she matched on Caelid.
Radahn: Learns gravity sorcery to keep rising his childhood horse. Also Radahn: Uses it to hold the stars in a deathgrip, halting everybody's fate in a big "fuck you" to all their schemes.
They're 100% going to re-use the cut Astel crash-landing after Radahn fight sequence in the DLC overworld somewhere. Or some other kind of cosmic being crashing. From loves reusing cut content in DLCs
I always noticed a few details while playing like the bloody finger from jerren and the talk of an eclipse, but I never made the connection to mogh and radanh like you just did. This actually makes so much sense it makes me feel dumb for not making the whole connection. It's insane how much radanh caused by halting the stars... makes you wonder if half of the event in the game would've happened if radanh didn't touch the stars at all. Also makes you wonder if mohg told jerren to make the radahn festival to finish him. I fucking love this game
Yeah, it's crazy just how many puzzle pieces can be hidden in plain sight like that! I actually did Sellen's quest on my very first run but didn't even register the "Bloody Finger Vanquished" pop-up. And it was only like a year and a half later when I was hunting for footage for a completely different video that I noticed it! Now that you mention it, it might be worthwhile to do an entire video just on how much of an impact Radahn has had on the Lands Between! That would also mean Leonard has actually been one of the most influential characters in the Lands Between this whole time 😅
also malenia had no idea miquella was being abducted as that happened during her march to face radahn. the whole reason they fought was for the elden ring great runes to become elden lord. mohg literally snuck in and yoinked miquella after this. this is why when you fight her that she looks up where miquella should be and talks to him after she dies, she's blind and thinks he's in his cocoon still.
Malenia never mentions, either herself or in lore, that she cared to become Elden Lord. If she had, she would've killed Godrick when she fought him prior to that battle. Her going to unleash the stars is 10x more likely.
I think Jerren being a bloody finger makes sense, not in the idea that he organized radahns death for Mohg, but more regarding what his goals are after Radahns death. He goes by the tittle "witch-Hunter Jerren" after Radahns death, and hunts down Sellen due to her being a morally grey Witch with a scary body record. He considers her mad and heartless due to how she does her work and what she wants to achieve. Jerren has had a history with the Carian royal family and the academy, so it makes sense for him to have a similar view on Sellen as them. To me it seems like he opted to become a bloody finger since he could then dish out his own sense of justice and vigilantism in the lands between with less restrictions. The tittle "Witch-Hunter" doesn't sound like a one-off tittle, so who knows what else he'll do. We never see him again if we chose to assist him against Sellen after all.
I have a good vocabulary and I thought I knew what garrulous meant but i was wrong. I looked it up after listening to this video and even that in of itself opens up more lore implications in my mind. Haven't heard anyone talk about it yet... pretty wild. And knowing Miyazaki, almost nothing is unintentional in his games however I wonder if there was a translation error which there's plenty of that. I bring this up because i just found your channel today and it got me thinking about Goldmask
There's a sword memorial in Caelid that says: "The Starscourge Conflict Radahn alone holds Sellia secure And stands tall, to shatter the stars" He halted the stars to protect Sellia, the meteor that opens the way to Nokron was most likely to hit Sellia before he halted the stars movements, and since the earth still moves, and before the battle the game automaticly sets the time at night, that meteor instead of hitting Sellia falls into Limgrave and opens the way to Nokron. There's also all the problems that the stars bring, like Astels and the falling star beasts, Radahn was protecting the Lands Between; there's cut content that shows that an Astel would have fallen into Radahn's arena after defeating him.
Don’t forget, we find the teleportation gate that was Mohg’s escape route from the Consecrated Snowfield back to Mohgwyn Palace. I’m sure he broke in quietly, but I don’t think he was able to return to his palace instantaneously like an invader. In my opinion, Malenia was chasing after Mohg and Radahn just happened to get in her way and challenge her for her Great Rune as part of the Shattering. I also think that Miquella was already asleep in the Haligtree roots with his sister having her rot cleansed nearby when the eclipse was scheduled to happen. While Radahn may have been responsible for halting it, and Miquella may have known what to do, he wasn’t conscious to put those pieces together and send anyone after him.
My theory? In an older build of the game a meteor would’ve opened a hole to the Mohgwyn dynasty under Radahn’s boss arena. I think Malenia wanted to find Miquella and so was hoping the stars could guide her.
If Miquelon cast aside his empyrean flesh like ranni, he would need another demigods soul to do so, maybe that’s another reason malania was there for Radahn
The stars control fate in the Lands Between. When they are stopped, so does fate and no one can reach their destiny as a result of Radahns meddling with the stars. Radahn did this because Sellia, a place he holds very dear, was to potentially be hit by a meteor and would be destroyed by it so he held the stars in place. This is halting both Miquella's and Ranni's plans from coming into fruition as their fated roles cannot be continued with the stars halted as they are
I'm also toying with the idea that the reason Miquella went to the shadowland is because, since the light is blocked out, its an eternal eclipse. If the eclipse is necessary to grant Godwyn proper death, Miquella might well have gone into that realm for that purpose. However, it seems weird no matter the theory *why* he had to divest himself of his flesh, as you, the player, don't have to. I think being rid of the two fingers is as good a reason as any.
I respect him even more now holding back the stars everyones fates while being infected by scarlet rot missing his feet and not at full thinking capacity w boss👌
Tbf on Radahn’s part on not wanting Godwyn to be fully resurrected, though it’s interesting to think about the GRRM style succession crisis stuff with how if Godwyn sided with Miquella it would add legitimacy and consider Radahn might envy Godwyn is interesting, but I also think it was completely reasonable in a practical sense. Godwyn on his own was a complete force to be reckoned with, dude basically led the war against the dragons and kicked serious ass, also iirc (I could totally be remembering this wrong) the other function the eclipse was supposed to have was resurrecting the other demigods killed in the Night of Black Knives, so Godwyn plus a ton of other demigods potential being controlled by/siding with Miquella would all but have his faction win the Shattering. Radahn had to know Miquella and Malenia were enough to handle but adding Godwyn and potentially others to there ranks as well, he’d likely lose. So preventing the Eclipse was a all or nothing deal, if he dies the Eclipse would happen and his plus the others would get demolished, if he won against Malenia that be a massive victory and whether he won or it was a tie (or just him holding out long enough) it would prevent Miquella’s plan. So overall, there might’ve been some personal motivation behind it but it was also logical in a royal demigod war scenario.
Oh for sure! Radahn, even in his Scarlet Rot afflicted state, was still a rational actor in the sense that what he was doing made perfect sense from his perspective. Tho I could also see a possibility (slim it may be) of Miquella negotiating with Radahn to stop the stars briefly to allow the Eclipse to bring back Godwyn, but in return, Godwyn would renounce his claim to the throne. (Ranni did cast off her Great Rune, and the trailer seems to hint that Miquella did that as well.) Of course, with Miquella kidnapped, Mohg ensured that even that unlikely diplomatic agreement would never happen.
Radhan was simping so hard for the Golden order and daddy Godfrey, bro fucked everybody plans and even stagnate the fate of the lands. Honor and power means nothing when you can only bring stagnation.
So: 1. Godwyn is killed and Miquella wants him back through the Eclipse 2. Radhan holds the stars because whatever (protecting Sellia, avoiding the eclipse because he doesn't want Godwyn back, whatever) and he fucks a lot of his relatives in the process (Miquella, Mohg, Ranni...). 3. Miquella sends Malenia to Caelid, as Radhan needed to die. 4. Mohg kidnaps Miquella while Malenia's army is out. 5. Battle of Aeonia. 6. Mohg keeps Miquella under Aeonia because it helps him for whatever reason. 7. Mohg tries to get Radhan killed with the Festival and Jerren. 8. Malenia returns to the Haligtree and Miquella is missing, she asumes he will return from the shadow realm someday so she just stays there, healing herself and waiting for his return (as she tells us in her boss cutscene). Is that it?
people fail to think about what ranni has to do with all this too. remember she was the one that carried out miquellas last request for the lands between. he gave her his horse as he left for the shadow lands to give to us. not to mention her connection to radahn and her knowledge of miquella and melania
Fromsoft DLC entrances be like: 1) Use belfry tower to access Siofra river, and walk across invisible bridge around the backside of a rock formation to collect a "Discolored Glass Trinket" 2) Defeat Radahn, unlocking new dialogue and purchasable item from isolated merchant on the Raya Lucaria bridge. Buy it 3) Fufilling both of the above conditions will spawn an NPC on the divine bridge connected to Godrick's Divine tower. Get invaded while talking to them, with no stake of marika. To progress the quest you have to keep both yourself and the NPC alive from the invader until an NPC blue shows up 90 seconds later. Then defeat the invader, and talk to the blue. He speaks about an artisan NPC lost somewhere in the underdark 4) which then spawns and NPC at one of the interior edges of the Lake of Rot. They combine your two previously acquired items to give you a new item that unlocks the DLC entrance. But if Mohg Nihil's before you defeat him, then the key item is corrupted and the DLC is on hard mode.
From day 1, everyone is pointing to the cloud in the middle of the map. How strange this cloud sits perfectly between the divine towers, we said. It would be extremely anticlimactic if this will be the DLC area :') It was just too obvious from the start, making it less special.
When you halt every star in the system, and halt everyone’s Fate in the process, making yourself the single Most Wanted man in The Lands Between. Typical Radahn activities
Two notes: - Radahn halting the stars might have been long before the Shattering. It would still prevent the eclipse, but it would not be the intended effect. - I wouldn't make too much of Jerren being a red phantom. For game mechanics, either he or Sellen had to be, and it is Sellen's questline.
Is Sellen a Bloody Finger when you fight her? I don't remember. Because if she is, it's definitely a game mechanics thing. Otherwise it would have been possible to make Jerren a "regular" invader sort of like the Flame Guardians.
There is one incredibly important aspect to consider with all of this: Everything indicates that the eclipse would revive the soulless demigods, but what would the demigods be like without souls? In Demon's Souls, the soul was the equivalent of intelligence and comprehension. In Dark Souls, those without souls went hollow and lacked intelligence and were little more than feral monsters. Can anything good come from reviving the demigods like Miquella planned?
Idk about that final part becasue its stated that we aren't the o ly ones following miquella meaning that people have gone to the shadow land before radahns death. Other than that great video 🤙🏽
I credited you as an inspiration at the end of my latest video, I've always loved your content! ☺ In it, I went over ideas for us visiting the "Spirit World" mentioned in the Helphen Steeple for the DLC (I posted just before the trailer, so the Spirit World would be the same as the Shadow Lands). tl;dr I mentioned at the end different ways we might access the DLC, and I touched on the two Spirit Jellyfish we can reunite in the Mountaintops - there are two graves nearby with the same names, suggesting they were human once. As such, and as they both disappear to "go see the stars", I've been wondering if the Spirit (Shadow) World is technically within the stars themselves? This could explain WHY we need to defeat Radahn! If he's holding back the stars, maybe this is, in some way, preventing us from entering into the Shadow Land? I also discussed how Miquella might have cocooned himself within the Haligtree, specifically within its withered/stunted half, to enter a deep slumber and access the Spirit World, searching for something to help it grow into a double helix. AND, if the Shadow Lands really ARE within the stars, then maybe he requested Malenia to go and defeat Radahn to restart the stars motion? This might sound weird, as it's sort of the conclusion of my LOOONG video, but I'd love to know what you think? 😁
The spirit world being in the stars is a neat idea. I wonder how it can hold, though, considering there's many allusions to death just being a giant dreamworld (most notably Fortissax in Godwyn's dream). The primeval current being an origin of consciousness (and thus the soul) is kind of alluded to with the glintstone primeval sorcerers, though, so you may be onto something.
That was another great video mate! And I definitely like the idea that Radahn holding back the stars is even more directly linked with access to the Land of Shadow/spirit world...
The primeval current is so fascinating, so I would love to see more lore about it in the SotE (and that one Carian-looking person is giving me major copium!) And for what's it worth, in ancient and medieval cosmology, the Crystalline Heaven was the highest sphere of heaven, second only to the Empyrean!
Here’s a radical thought: what if Mohg didn’t plan anything? What if he didn’t actually kidnap Miquella? We’ve been all assuming that Mohg kidnapped Miquella for… creepy reasons. But doesn’t his obsession with Miquella seem a little out of left field? Why Miquella specifically? Especially now that his body is a withered husk in an egg sack? From the Bewitching Branch description, we know that Miquella “has learned very well how to compel affection” from others. What if he basically cast the equivalent of “Charm Person” on Mohg, turning him and his blood cult into pawns to guard his body while he lays dormant? Then he has Malenia send her army to attack Radahn and free the stars so that he can complete his next phase of his plan? Of course, then Malenia failed to kill him, triggered her Scarlet Bloom, leaving Radahn a howling mad killing machine surrounded by a wasteland of scarlet rot, unable to die but still too strong to be easily put down? Thus, Miquella’s plans would be at a standstill, his body would languish in Mohgwyn while being fawned over by a bewitched Mohg, and Malenia would be too mind-broken by the Scarlet Rot to find a way to fix the situation. And then a lone tarnished comes out of nowhere…
Or maybe the reason is simpler than this. That maybe some DLC conversation/lines a NPC mentions that Radahn is dead, so to be consistent with the writing, Radahn is required to be killed first?
“What’s nice about this speculation is we’ll find out in four months if I’m right or wrong” hopeful thinking that Myazaki is going to give a clear cut answer 🤣🤣
Because Malenia tried to kill general Radahn. Probably because stars hold the fates of Empyreans. So Malenia was try to help Miquella somehow, I wager! Malenia had a reason to marshall her army and march to Caelid. You have to finish what Malenia started to set Miquella's fate in motion.
Miquela lost faith in the Godwyn order and since the ternished have purged the golden order forever more hits alot lol no golden order anymore and to say Miquela already lost faith in the golden order
@@PickledTyrant yea I think messmer inherited the giant curse of red hair from Marika and I'm sure he is another unfortunate Godfrey and Marika son who got casted out curse of the gaint curse of red hair and some other curses he inherited like dragon eyes and some that where unholy to her order, I'm looking further to see GODWYN the golden given a truthful death bruh just died a sacrificial death the plot of the black night haven't been explained where expecting another Elden ring DLC apart from the shadow of tree
@@stevenarry def a gods kid but Vlad the impaler in history Vlad meant son of the dragon which makes leads to even stupider theories like radagon and gloam eyed queen, merica married an enemy as a dude before and even left an amber egg great rune to show that he cared or whatever
Tbh I’m fairly convinced everything from the war with Radahn to Mohg capturing Miquella was actually part of Miquella’s plan to begin with. Whether Mohg and Miquella were in on it together, or if Mohg was an unknowing participant thinking he was the mastermind when in reality it was Miquella im not sure. But it doesent seem very much like a coincidence that the events that transpired as a direct result of both of these things puts Miquella in a perfect position to do whatever it is he’s trying to do.
Another intriguing angle! I've also toyed with the idea that Mohg was bewitched by Miquella, since the Haligtree is basically a giant Bewitching Branch. I hope we find out more in June!
@@garrulousgoldmask a part of me wonders if Malenia isn’t fully aware of Miquella’s plan either. When she says she’s awaiting his return it’s easy to assume she’s talking about his slumber in the tree. But now I wonder if she’s waiting for him to come back from the DLC place.
Radahn stopped the stars to save Selia from a meteor. Otherwise: Selia would have suffered the same fate as Yelough Anix: wiped out by a meteor and an Astel type creature. When you wonder what fighting the stars would have looked like: you can imagine that. Radahn didn't stop protecting Selia after he fought Malenia and went mad. Radahn didn't stop protecting Selia until you, the player character, kills him. Your observation that Mohg's palace is under Caelid is important for a reason.
Here's the real reason: they want players to be a good enough level to be prepped for the dlc, lol. And they also don't want people to rush to it, so they added Radahn as a requirement.
I can see that explanation for Malenia given that she attacks us for no reason at all. Still think Radahn is a good guy though and every "star" is in fact an eldritch abomination like fallingstar beasts or astels.
It's trully impressive how no one has talked about the fucking Amber Star Light since the DLC trailer droped. Raddahn has the fate of the Gods halted as well. Miquela needs him dead so that he can Manipulate the Destiny of the Outer Gods. Raddahn is a conerstone of the Golden Order in the Lands Between. The Reason no one could become Elden Lord until We kill Raddahn is because no one could kill Raddahn! something always happens and no one becomes a Lord or a God. Raddahn needs to die for the destiny of the Lands Between to continue.
The more we learn about lore the more we find out how much of a powerhouse Radahn was. Not only was he dying from rot and holding back all the stars but also Ranni's destiny with the full moon, the eclipse and the red star all while fighting the PC?
What if the erdtree is above this land? Like “the lands between” are above this shadow realm….. Maybe the tree we are seeing is holding up the erdtree? Ive heard people say they see one tree “squeezing” another…. but thats not what i see…. I see this tree below the erdtree and kinda acting like roots holding it up
We go up to farum so not a bad theory but you can see spirits that physically exist through St Trinas torch so there are plenty of semi transparent things like evergaols and spirit summons and torrent and even rannis second face that interact when they want
I still dont understand why Radahn held the stars. Could he also have done it for Ranni? Well.. Ranni needed us to kill him for the stars so scratch that… still great vid
😭😭 folks were so confused about why radahn needed to be cooked, but it’s always been about the stars!! Bro literally halted EVERYONES fate
Blud is too much of a menace🥶🥶🥶🥶🥶
I think it stumps people since Mohgwyns palace isn’t effected by beating him! I am talking gameplay wise though and not lore wise which may just be the case!
i still need to know why he did that shi, just to flex??
@@py1983 The golden order is kind of fickle, in sellia the sword monument directly states why Radahn is called the starscourge. He stood tall in sellia protecting the town by battling the stars. The specifics evade us, and could be tied into many things like his loyalty to the golden order and his siblings heresy. I think the original motive was simply to protect sellia, but halting the star’s accomplished more goals than one.
@@k2geekd there also needs to be something said about his inability for change.
Radahn is Carian, and it is Carians SPECIFICALLY who grow up studying the stars as their fates. Radahn halts the stars while KNOWING that his fate is tied to them. He clearly doesn’t want something to happen/doesn’t want change (I have theories that he halted his own fate, knowing that it will result in an unending battle called the Shattering - and he is just a war general who craved constant battle)
A lot of the qualities we deem as Radahn being “noble” or “honourable” mainly comes from the fact that he fears evolution. Hell, even his iconography (being proud of his red hair/emulating Godfrey’s imagery) suggests he fears being himself - and he prefers to cling to the past than to push towards a future
Also, Radahn can’t seem to get rid of his horse so he conquers a completely unique set of Magic School just to ride him (shout out Ratatoskr for this detail). His inability for change.
Malenia poisoned him with stagnating rot… which is ironic, considering Radahn was already stagnating looong before the Shattering War. Almost as if, Malenia’s Caelid nuke was destined to happen to Radahn. He is the embodiment of stagnation.
A man halts the stars and suddenly everyone is his enemy
That's why Radahn was always regarded as the mightiest of the demigods.
Mightiest demigod of the shattering*@@antonironstag5085
@@antonironstag5085nah, I’m the mightiest demigod.
@@brandonman1315
Sir, if you are on your phone, I highly doubt you even deserve a title of "demi" in a demigod.
@@brandonman1315 mightiest demihuman maybe
also, all that blood from Radahn’s arena seeping down into Mogwyn palace (+ the new line from the DLC voice over about “blood must be spilled in that place…”) so maybe Mogh also chose the location for all the bloodfall (to either suit his purposes, or Miquella is 2 steps ahead and using it to water a new - shadow? - haligtree?)
I was about to comment this! 100% agree.
Oh, that's a fantastic point!
Brooooooooo❤🎉😅
I like this theory. Jerren secretly working for Mohg and recruiting powerful warriors to give Radahn a “warriors death,” thinking this is what Radahn would want. When in reality, he’s trying to kill Radahn to prevent him from holding back the stars and outer gods. So he’s trying to get as much help as he can. Radahn is fighting for his life, actually trying to stay alive to protect the lands between and Ranni, Malenia and Mohg are trying to kill him for their own plans 🫠🫠🫠
To be fair, Ranni wants to keep the Gods away herself. In her eyes Radahn is just keeping up the status quo.
No clue what Miquella has planned, but I like to think that since Malenia is cursed by an Outer God too he too want to keep them away.
Radahn wasn't holding back outer gods at all. He was holding back the fate of demigods that is in celestial bodies in space.
Astel, Natural born of Void isn't a god or outer god or even outer god pet. Its just a space alien that land in land between through the crash because when we kill him it says "legend felled" same text used for Ancestor spirit, and Lichdragonnot not "demigod slain" or "God fell".
Ohh I like the idea of Radahn holding back the Blood Star
Jerren being a bloody finger is an incredible detail
Interesting. I had suspected Malenia would have fought Radahn at Miquella’s behest specifically because he was wanting to bring about the eclipse but knew he couldn’t because of Radahn.
Eclipse did nothing tho😂
@@muramasa870 eclipse wasn’t able to occur, because Radahn was holding back the stars and another attempt has not yet happened since he was killed.
😂🤣😒
@@muramasa870the eclipse never happened because of the stars being stopped
@@muramasa870"it did nothing." Yah, because it never happened. Duh.
@@Zach-qo1on radahn had nothing to do with the eclipse
One new point of lore we have is that Miquella departed his flesh into the shadowlands WILLINGLY. So I actually think that Malenia went to fight Radahn to make Miquellas return possible, to open a way back for miquella by freeing the movement of the stars. So Mohg could've taken his body while Malenia was fighting Radahn, which was not really considered before... because there was no correlation between the stars and miquellas fate
i don't think that's the case because as far as i know until we kill mohg and tell gideon about him not a single person knows how or why did miquella left the haligtree so most likely mohg went there unnoticed and stole miquella and left without anyone knowing and all that while malenia was out fighting radahn (most likely)
@@Drenosir what I said only changes that Malenia didn't know mohg took Miquella, nothing else. if anything what you said corroborates that Malenia didn't overtly go after Radahn to get to Miquella - it was a secret plan. and why would Malenia go after Radahn if Miquella was safe with her? that only enforces my theory that she needed to stop Radahns force over the stars for Miquella to return...
I'm confused where what you said contradicts my comment
@@chainclaw07 i meant more something like that Malenia went out to kill radahn so that the eclipse would work and radahn was stopping stars so that it doesn't and Goldwyn doesn't return and then when Malenia fights radahn miquella gets stolen by mohg
@@Drenosir so... the reason Malenia goes is different but everythting else the same...
also - Goldwyn doesn't return? his spirit was killed together with Rannis body to form a deathmark. Godwyn is dead in spirit but his body lives on, infecting the world with those who live in death.
maybe you mean Miquella went to the shadowlands to bring him back, and needed the eclipse to do so? I guess that fits
@@chainclaw07 yeah maybe but about Godwyn miquella was devoted to bring him back in a way and to do that he needed the eclipse which we know for some reason didn't work (most likely because or radahn) and we also know that miquella went to the land of the shadow (shadow and eclipse could be connected) so who knows maybe we just have to wait those few months and everything will be revealed to us
I had no idea Jerren was a bloody finger. Mind blown!
Was coming here to say the same thing, doesn't even list it on his fextralife page! Really crazy connection that seemingly went unnoticed by most!
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh... that MIGHT be possible but there's a decent chance that's a coincidence. I've done a decent bit of ER modding and all those messages are referenced as numbers that are really close in value, it could be a hidden detail but it's more likely someone hit the wrong key on accident and never noticed bc it's not a super obvious mistake.
@@Ryan-nm8pw but he invades Sellen when you cooperate with her. He is literally a red. An invader. I never considered that that may be because he’s a bloody finger. I suppose it’s just as likely that he is a bloody finger as it is that it’s an accident.
@@Ryan-nm8pw that’s extremely on purpose fromsoft don’t do stuff on accident
Edgar, Irina's father is also red when we fight him and he's not a bloody finger
radahn is such a chad for just waking up one day and deciding to stop the stars
He literally fucked everyone's fate. His sister had to kill him (by proxy) to pull the world out of it's miserable stagnant state.
how he just made the shitty world stagnate
Nah, bro was just simping too hard for the golden order and Godfrey that is not chad at all XD.
A chad for being able to do such a feat, but not a chad for stopping everyone's fate. Even his own sister wants him dead.
@@franciscodetonne4797headvanon ranni never implied or said that
This is a great video, I think you’re spot on about the eclipse and Mohgs desire to remove Radahn and Malenia from the chessboard as potential competitors for the new dynasty, however, my one question is involving the theory that Mohg framed Radahn as hiding Miquella. The potential flaw I see in this speculation is that we know that upon her defeat, Malenia is returned to the Haligtree “waiting” for Miquella to return. If she believed that he was in Radahn’s possession and she failed to retrieve him, why would she and the other followers of the Haligtree wait in this fashion? Through that evidence it’s implied that Miquella’s disappearance was in large a mystery no one had solved.
Again, amazing video my man, this proved to me you deserve more recognition, just wanted to throw that bit of questioning into the narrative
I figured she got her ass beat so bad she had to get carried out so it didn’t matter what she went there for she couldn’t even get herself out alone, still bae tho
right, a lot is more headcanon, that aspect i don’t think is true at all! I truly think Malenia went to fight radahn for the same reason ranni wanted the tarnish to figh him, because of him halting the stars. That’s even more reason for mohg to ALSO want him dead, he literally had the fate of every demigod at a standstill
Interesting, Jerren being a Bloody Finger makes a lot of sense! I just thought of the "Bloody Finger Vanquished" message as the game's default for defeating a dark phantom, but I should have known!
Comming back too this now we all know from the dlc that chadaun is a victim 😢
its crazy how everyone was wrong about it lmao
Fr
Great video, that catch on Jerren is insane! I had no idea about that 1.0 Dialogue! Though, from my perspective the Sun and the Eclipse are symbols and not supposed to be literal.
Thank you so much! It's amazing all the tiny details you can catch with a wholly new perspective. And I can definitely see the appeal for interpreting the Sun and Eclipse as symbols! But for me, ever since I saw the Two Fingers, I've defaulted to taking the lore very literally 😅
@ousgoldmask That argument is iron clad, I really cant dispute that lol
@@garrulousgoldmask I wanted to come back and say that the catch on Jerren is actually so insane because it almost certainly confirms that Jerren is a Tarnished and the body that Sellen is occupying is a Tarnished body, since Bloody Fingers are Tarnished recruited by Mohg and only invade other Tarnished.
If Jerren is a Tarnished that means he either returned with all of the other Tarnished after the Shattering OR more likely he is one of the Tarnished who stayed behind (as per the Rusty Anchor). Seeing that Jerren is a character who wears a mask, like we have seen in the DLC trailer I think we can tie him as a character who was around the same time as the Land of Shadow was relevant in the Lands Between.
It's wholly possible that it's not that at all. Dung Eater can invade you and he is not a recusant or a bloody finger. Alberch is also neither of these things. They both get the 'INVADER VANQUISHED' pop-up and whilst Jerren definitely does have the bloody finger pop-up, it's more than likely a mistake on FromSoftware's part. @@JackisaMimic
Nice video! Finally someone wants to talk about this. It doesn't make sense that defeating Radahn is just a random event FS adds to access the DLC. You either need Ranni's relationship, access to Eternal City, or some major lore reason for this to make sense. It seems all the major lore creators in our community are not talking about this.
Who cares
@@Blittsplitt5 🤡🤡
1. The Golden Order does not follow patrilineal succession. Instead, Empyreans are chosen by the two fingers who may themselves one day ascend to Godhood to lead the Order. Radahn never had a chance at the Elden Ring without overthrowing the Golden Order, same as Mohg.
2. Radahn's blocking of the stars wasn't due to him trying to stop the Eclipse. It was him protecting Sellia in the "Starscourge Conflict". From what and why is not exactly clear. Holding up Ranni's fate and blocking the Eclipse were side effects, not the goal.
3. As you yourself point out, Radahn's death was necessary in order to allow the Eclipse to happen. This is why Milenea traveled to Caelid to challenge him. In not fully finishing him off, the Eclipse didn't occur. But Mohg stealing Miquella had nothing to do with the conflict with Radahn.
4. As to why you must defeat Radahn to enter the DLC: probably because once you have done what his sister could not, only then will Miquella take interest in you.
I love this theory because I have always believed that was the case with Miquella wanting Radahn taken down to allow the eclipse to fulfill, however I do not believe what you said about Malenia traveling to Caelid to confront Radahn because she was looking for her brother makes sense, plus her believing Radahn is lying also feels out of character, PLUS having Miquella being kidnapped in front of her, in front of the single being responsible for Radahn’s current state and the one who has the specific title of “Blade of Miquella”, it just seems weird that Mogh would get away with that unnoticed by Malenia.
I believe Malenia took action on behalf of her brother to take down Radahn in order to proceed with the eclipse as I’m sure she knows her own twin’s desires and plans, and while fighting with Radahn, Mogh being so close to the area noticed, and took advantage of an unprotected Miquella and kidnapped him, and you also find the portal to Mogh’s palace in the consecrated snowfields very near the Haligtree.
I could be wrong but that makes more sense to me
Wow amazing video after learning about the final boss of DLC
I think it's simpler than people make it out to be:
For the series of events, basically: Miquella's mission required the Eclipse. Radahn held the constellations in place, thus preventing an Eclipse from being possible. Malenia marches on Radahn to have him release the stars. Mohg sneaks in and steals Miquella AFTER Malenia has already left the Haligtree. Radahn refuses to release the stars, thus war ensues. Malenia fails to kill Radahn and is returned to the Haligtree while trying to quell the Scarlet Rot. Mohg is aware of the situation needing Radahn's death, so he has his subjects orchestrate an event to lead to Radahn's death since now Malenia, having discovered Miquella's absence, has no reason to pursue Radahn further.
And yes, I believe Mohg wanted Radahn dead in order to allow the Blood Star to empower him.
mohg used the consecrated snowfield waygate, no? it’s covered in blood, guarded by a noble, and a nearby ghost said “mohg u bring back miquella u dirty dog” or something
I’m of the impression that sending gate is fairly well known in certain areas of the lands between thanks to the albinaurics. I believe in their search for the path the the Haligtree, a good many of them that actually made it that far may have stumbled off path and came across the sending gate. That’s why In mohgs palace most albinaurics are found sleeping, possibly once they are “initiated “ so to speak, they rest after a long perilous journey. With the influx of albinaurics a noble was placed there sort of like security
Personally, I saw that waygate as a way for Mohg's forces to intercept the Albinaurics headed to the Haligtree. I don't think Mohg used it because you'd still have to access the waygate guarded inside Ordina to get to just the top of the Haligtree. (Though it's quite possible that Mohg is the one who set it up!)
@@garrulousgoldmaskI believe the waypoint was used by the albinuracs rather than mohg himself. Maybe they knew miquella was taken and attempted to bring him back to the haligtree but failed miserably once they arrived?
You were very accurate with your theory on manipulative femboy with god-complex luring everyone into his plan well done
Man these are amazing theories bro. It's amazing how Radahn is so powerful and tragic and important.
So many things keep coming back to him. Being at the very least one of the most powerful beings in the land, no matter your goals, is going to put targets on your back and set others to use you in their plans. The idea that Mohg orchestrated Radhan's downfall to Malenia's rot is intense.
You'll see.
Very good video! I really like the idea that the Divine Towers are holding up the veil :)
I feel basically that the outter god named formless mother is was influencing mogh to use miquella to bring in her age but like miquella they both needed destined death to do what they wanted same as ranni
Destined death is the rune they all are fighting for so that they can fuse it with the gods they each serve
Ranni - astrology
Miquella - golden order
Mogh - formless mother
And we know who these key Demi gods are associated with
Absolutely insane, this video was essentially my conversation with my brother on Friday, I was wondering when a video talking about these links would show up
I love these theories! I really hope that Godwyn is gonna be the final boss of the DLC. The theory is that as Ranni has two souls/spirits, Godwyn may have two bodies. That would be an epic boss fight. 😄 And we could finally get to see him in action. He and Miquella are still quite a mystery, even though their subtle influence is everywhere in the Lands Between.
you cooked
My thoughts are that potentially his arena will get reused as a whole area. It takes up a ton of room on the map for no reason after the boss fight.
Maybe the blue flower area where the ships arrive?
Glad to see people are finally starting to realize Radahn is no innocent saint and that he’s just a prideful god wannabe like the rest of his family. Morgott was right this whole family is mess 😂 Awesome video btw
Also this way ensures that Messmer will not be considered a demigod you would have to kill to unlock Leyndell because you would’ve already killed two (Mogh and Radahn)
If what we know is true, Messmer would not have had any involvement in the Shattering and thus would not be considered a target by the greater will
Absolutely love these theories. Well done! I also wonder at what state of decay was Malenia's mind when she marched on Caelid. We know her mind is gone to a substantial degree by the time we show up at the base of the Haligtree. Interesting stuff
Thank you so much! And that's a great point about Malenia! I hadn't thought that her mind might have already been in some state of decay as she matched on Caelid.
How badass would a elder ring anime be
Even better if it's based on the manga!
Radahn: Learns gravity sorcery to keep rising his childhood horse.
Also Radahn: Uses it to hold the stars in a deathgrip, halting everybody's fate in a big "fuck you" to all their schemes.
They're 100% going to re-use the cut Astel crash-landing after Radahn fight sequence in the DLC overworld somewhere. Or some other kind of cosmic being crashing. From loves reusing cut content in DLCs
I always noticed a few details while playing like the bloody finger from jerren and the talk of an eclipse, but I never made the connection to mogh and radanh like you just did.
This actually makes so much sense it makes me feel dumb for not making the whole connection.
It's insane how much radanh caused by halting the stars... makes you wonder if half of the event in the game would've happened if radanh didn't touch the stars at all.
Also makes you wonder if mohg told jerren to make the radahn festival to finish him.
I fucking love this game
Yeah, it's crazy just how many puzzle pieces can be hidden in plain sight like that! I actually did Sellen's quest on my very first run but didn't even register the "Bloody Finger Vanquished" pop-up. And it was only like a year and a half later when I was hunting for footage for a completely different video that I noticed it!
Now that you mention it, it might be worthwhile to do an entire video just on how much of an impact Radahn has had on the Lands Between! That would also mean Leonard has actually been one of the most influential characters in the Lands Between this whole time 😅
Because there's an NPC that will appear in Nokron who will tell you to go to the cacoon thing. Calling it.
also malenia had no idea miquella was being abducted as that happened during her march to face radahn. the whole reason they fought was for the elden ring great runes to become elden lord. mohg literally snuck in and yoinked miquella after this. this is why when you fight her that she looks up where miquella should be and talks to him after she dies, she's blind and thinks he's in his cocoon still.
Malenia never mentions, either herself or in lore, that she cared to become Elden Lord. If she had, she would've killed Godrick when she fought him prior to that battle. Her going to unleash the stars is 10x more likely.
I think Jerren being a bloody finger makes sense, not in the idea that he organized radahns death for Mohg, but more regarding what his goals are after Radahns death. He goes by the tittle "witch-Hunter Jerren" after Radahns death, and hunts down Sellen due to her being a morally grey Witch with a scary body record. He considers her mad and heartless due to how she does her work and what she wants to achieve. Jerren has had a history with the Carian royal family and the academy, so it makes sense for him to have a similar view on Sellen as them. To me it seems like he opted to become a bloody finger since he could then dish out his own sense of justice and vigilantism in the lands between with less restrictions. The tittle "Witch-Hunter" doesn't sound like a one-off tittle, so who knows what else he'll do. We never see him again if we chose to assist him against Sellen after all.
Radahn stopped the stars for the town of selia, theres even a sword stele put up to commemorate it.
Dropping banger video dam I'm so excited to the dlc
You sly devil, I see what you did there at the end
Gotta admit Radahn was probably my favorite character. He is the true elden lord in my eyes.
I have a good vocabulary and I thought I knew what garrulous meant but i was wrong. I looked it up after listening to this video and even that in of itself opens up more lore implications in my mind. Haven't heard anyone talk about it yet... pretty wild. And knowing Miyazaki, almost nothing is unintentional in his games however I wonder if there was a translation error which there's plenty of that. I bring this up because i just found your channel today and it got me thinking about Goldmask
There's a sword memorial in Caelid that says:
"The Starscourge Conflict
Radahn alone holds Sellia secure
And stands tall, to shatter the stars"
He halted the stars to protect Sellia, the meteor that opens the way to Nokron was most likely to hit Sellia before he halted the stars movements, and since the earth still moves, and before the battle the game automaticly sets the time at night, that meteor instead of hitting Sellia falls into Limgrave and opens the way to Nokron.
There's also all the problems that the stars bring, like Astels and the falling star beasts, Radahn was protecting the Lands Between; there's cut content that shows that an Astel would have fallen into Radahn's arena after defeating him.
Don’t forget, we find the teleportation gate that was Mohg’s escape route from the Consecrated Snowfield back to Mohgwyn Palace. I’m sure he broke in quietly, but I don’t think he was able to return to his palace instantaneously like an invader.
In my opinion, Malenia was chasing after Mohg and Radahn just happened to get in her way and challenge her for her Great Rune as part of the Shattering.
I also think that Miquella was already asleep in the Haligtree roots with his sister having her rot cleansed nearby when the eclipse was scheduled to happen. While Radahn may have been responsible for halting it, and Miquella may have known what to do, he wasn’t conscious to put those pieces together and send anyone after him.
Wow I had no idea Jerren was a bloody finger but now it makes sense. Great theory!
My theory? In an older build of the game a meteor would’ve opened a hole to the Mohgwyn dynasty under Radahn’s boss arena. I think Malenia wanted to find Miquella and so was hoping the stars could guide her.
If Miquelon cast aside his empyrean flesh like ranni, he would need another demigods soul to do so, maybe that’s another reason malania was there for Radahn
The stars control fate in the Lands Between. When they are stopped, so does fate and no one can reach their destiny as a result of Radahns meddling with the stars.
Radahn did this because Sellia, a place he holds very dear, was to potentially be hit by a meteor and would be destroyed by it so he held the stars in place.
This is halting both Miquella's and Ranni's plans from coming into fruition as their fated roles cannot be continued with the stars halted as they are
I'm also toying with the idea that the reason Miquella went to the shadowland is because, since the light is blocked out, its an eternal eclipse. If the eclipse is necessary to grant Godwyn proper death, Miquella might well have gone into that realm for that purpose. However, it seems weird no matter the theory *why* he had to divest himself of his flesh, as you, the player, don't have to. I think being rid of the two fingers is as good a reason as any.
I respect him even more now holding back the stars everyones fates while being infected by scarlet rot missing his feet and not at full thinking capacity w boss👌
Tbf on Radahn’s part on not wanting Godwyn to be fully resurrected, though it’s interesting to think about the GRRM style succession crisis stuff with how if Godwyn sided with Miquella it would add legitimacy and consider Radahn might envy Godwyn is interesting, but I also think it was completely reasonable in a practical sense. Godwyn on his own was a complete force to be reckoned with, dude basically led the war against the dragons and kicked serious ass, also iirc (I could totally be remembering this wrong) the other function the eclipse was supposed to have was resurrecting the other demigods killed in the Night of Black Knives, so Godwyn plus a ton of other demigods potential being controlled by/siding with Miquella would all but have his faction win the Shattering. Radahn had to know Miquella and Malenia were enough to handle but adding Godwyn and potentially others to there ranks as well, he’d likely lose. So preventing the Eclipse was a all or nothing deal, if he dies the Eclipse would happen and his plus the others would get demolished, if he won against Malenia that be a massive victory and whether he won or it was a tie (or just him holding out long enough) it would prevent Miquella’s plan. So overall, there might’ve been some personal motivation behind it but it was also logical in a royal demigod war scenario.
Oh for sure! Radahn, even in his Scarlet Rot afflicted state, was still a rational actor in the sense that what he was doing made perfect sense from his perspective. Tho I could also see a possibility (slim it may be) of Miquella negotiating with Radahn to stop the stars briefly to allow the Eclipse to bring back Godwyn, but in return, Godwyn would renounce his claim to the throne. (Ranni did cast off her Great Rune, and the trailer seems to hint that Miquella did that as well.) Of course, with Miquella kidnapped, Mohg ensured that even that unlikely diplomatic agreement would never happen.
Radhan was simping so hard for the Golden order and daddy Godfrey, bro fucked everybody plans and even stagnate the fate of the lands. Honor and power means nothing when you can only bring stagnation.
stop liking ur own comments 😂👍
@@jagmbaksvshsh time to proceed and indeed like my own comment. xD
So:
1. Godwyn is killed and Miquella wants him back through the Eclipse
2. Radhan holds the stars because whatever (protecting Sellia, avoiding the eclipse because he doesn't want Godwyn back, whatever) and he fucks a lot of his relatives in the process (Miquella, Mohg, Ranni...).
3. Miquella sends Malenia to Caelid, as Radhan needed to die.
4. Mohg kidnaps Miquella while Malenia's army is out.
5. Battle of Aeonia.
6. Mohg keeps Miquella under Aeonia because it helps him for whatever reason.
7. Mohg tries to get Radhan killed with the Festival and Jerren.
8. Malenia returns to the Haligtree and Miquella is missing, she asumes he will return from the shadow realm someday so she just stays there, healing herself and waiting for his return (as she tells us in her boss cutscene).
Is that it?
I really hope that needing to defeat Radahn to access the DLC has a different narrative reason than him holding the stars and "fate" in place.
people fail to think about what ranni has to do with all this too. remember she was the one that carried out miquellas last request for the lands between. he gave her his horse as he left for the shadow lands to give to us. not to mention her connection to radahn and her knowledge of miquella and melania
Fromsoft DLC entrances be like:
1) Use belfry tower to access Siofra river, and walk across invisible bridge around the backside of a rock formation to collect a "Discolored Glass Trinket"
2) Defeat Radahn, unlocking new dialogue and purchasable item from isolated merchant on the Raya Lucaria bridge. Buy it
3) Fufilling both of the above conditions will spawn an NPC on the divine bridge connected to Godrick's Divine tower. Get invaded while talking to them, with no stake of marika. To progress the quest you have to keep both yourself and the NPC alive from the invader until an NPC blue shows up 90 seconds later. Then defeat the invader, and talk to the blue. He speaks about an artisan NPC lost somewhere in the underdark
4) which then spawns and NPC at one of the interior edges of the Lake of Rot. They combine your two previously acquired items to give you a new item that unlocks the DLC entrance. But if Mohg Nihil's before you defeat him, then the key item is corrupted and the DLC is on hard mode.
From day 1, everyone is pointing to the cloud in the middle of the map. How strange this cloud sits perfectly between the divine towers, we said.
It would be extremely anticlimactic if this will be the DLC area :') It was just too obvious from the start, making it less special.
Shadow of the erdtree. That area sits directly at the base of the erdtree
When you halt every star in the system, and halt everyone’s Fate in the process, making yourself the single Most Wanted man in The Lands Between.
Typical Radahn activities
Two notes:
- Radahn halting the stars might have been long before the Shattering. It would still prevent the eclipse, but it would not be the intended effect.
- I wouldn't make too much of Jerren being a red phantom. For game mechanics, either he or Sellen had to be, and it is Sellen's questline.
Is Sellen a Bloody Finger when you fight her? I don't remember. Because if she is, it's definitely a game mechanics thing. Otherwise it would have been possible to make Jerren a "regular" invader sort of like the Flame Guardians.
There is one incredibly important aspect to consider with all of this: Everything indicates that the eclipse would revive the soulless demigods, but what would the demigods be like without souls? In Demon's Souls, the soul was the equivalent of intelligence and comprehension. In Dark Souls, those without souls went hollow and lacked intelligence and were little more than feral monsters. Can anything good come from reviving the demigods like Miquella planned?
Great video! Thanks for posting this.
Idk about that final part becasue its stated that we aren't the o ly ones following miquella meaning that people have gone to the shadow land before radahns death. Other than that great video 🤙🏽
I like your theory about the Radahn and Malenia, it is more likely the true one. Nice video
I credited you as an inspiration at the end of my latest video, I've always loved your content! ☺
In it, I went over ideas for us visiting the "Spirit World" mentioned in the Helphen Steeple for the DLC (I posted just before the trailer, so the Spirit World would be the same as the Shadow Lands).
tl;dr I mentioned at the end different ways we might access the DLC, and I touched on the two Spirit Jellyfish we can reunite in the Mountaintops - there are two graves nearby with the same names, suggesting they were human once. As such, and as they both disappear to "go see the stars", I've been wondering if the Spirit (Shadow) World is technically within the stars themselves?
This could explain WHY we need to defeat Radahn! If he's holding back the stars, maybe this is, in some way, preventing us from entering into the Shadow Land?
I also discussed how Miquella might have cocooned himself within the Haligtree, specifically within its withered/stunted half, to enter a deep slumber and access the Spirit World, searching for something to help it grow into a double helix. AND, if the Shadow Lands really ARE within the stars, then maybe he requested Malenia to go and defeat Radahn to restart the stars motion?
This might sound weird, as it's sort of the conclusion of my LOOONG video, but I'd love to know what you think? 😁
The spirit world being in the stars is a neat idea. I wonder how it can hold, though, considering there's many allusions to death just being a giant dreamworld (most notably Fortissax in Godwyn's dream). The primeval current being an origin of consciousness (and thus the soul) is kind of alluded to with the glintstone primeval sorcerers, though, so you may be onto something.
That was another great video mate! And I definitely like the idea that Radahn holding back the stars is even more directly linked with access to the Land of Shadow/spirit world...
The primeval current is so fascinating, so I would love to see more lore about it in the SotE (and that one Carian-looking person is giving me major copium!) And for what's it worth, in ancient and medieval cosmology, the Crystalline Heaven was the highest sphere of heaven, second only to the Empyrean!
Here’s a radical thought: what if Mohg didn’t plan anything? What if he didn’t actually kidnap Miquella?
We’ve been all assuming that Mohg kidnapped Miquella for… creepy reasons. But doesn’t his obsession with Miquella seem a little out of left field? Why Miquella specifically? Especially now that his body is a withered husk in an egg sack?
From the Bewitching Branch description, we know that Miquella “has learned very well how to compel affection” from others. What if he basically cast the equivalent of “Charm Person” on Mohg, turning him and his blood cult into pawns to guard his body while he lays dormant? Then he has Malenia send her army to attack Radahn and free the stars so that he can complete his next phase of his plan?
Of course, then Malenia failed to kill him, triggered her Scarlet Bloom, leaving Radahn a howling mad killing machine surrounded by a wasteland of scarlet rot, unable to die but still too strong to be easily put down? Thus, Miquella’s plans would be at a standstill, his body would languish in Mohgwyn while being fawned over by a bewitched Mohg, and Malenia would be too mind-broken by the Scarlet Rot to find a way to fix the situation.
And then a lone tarnished comes out of nowhere…
Radhan brought stangantion - his intentions may of been honorable, but change is the truth of all existence.
It cannot be a coincidence that the eclipse symbology looks like the eclipsed sun in Dark Souls 3, which was eclipsed by the dark brand.
I'm assuming you'll need some item from underground to interact with Miquella's cocoon.
Or maybe the reason is simpler than this. That maybe some DLC conversation/lines a NPC mentions that Radahn is dead, so to be consistent with the writing, Radahn is required to be killed first?
“What’s nice about this speculation is we’ll find out in four months if I’m right or wrong”
hopeful thinking that Myazaki is going to give a clear cut answer 🤣🤣
He was cooking sum fr
Because Malenia tried to kill general Radahn. Probably because stars hold the fates of Empyreans.
So Malenia was try to help Miquella somehow, I wager! Malenia had a reason to marshall her army and march to Caelid.
You have to finish what Malenia started to set Miquella's fate in motion.
Gee, I wonder why. 😒😒😒
Miquela lost faith in the Godwyn order and since the ternished have purged the golden order forever more hits alot lol no golden order anymore and to say Miquela already lost faith in the golden order
Well we fix it in one ending I doubt they would base everything off of something any player can affect
@@PickledTyrant yea I think messmer inherited the giant curse of red hair from Marika and I'm sure he is another unfortunate Godfrey and Marika son who got casted out curse of the gaint curse of red hair and some other curses he inherited like dragon eyes and some that where unholy to her order, I'm looking further to see GODWYN the golden given a truthful death bruh just died a sacrificial death the plot of the black night haven't been explained where expecting another Elden ring DLC apart from the shadow of tree
@@stevenarry def a gods kid but Vlad the impaler in history Vlad meant son of the dragon which makes leads to even stupider theories like radagon and gloam eyed queen, merica married an enemy as a dude before and even left an amber egg great rune to show that he cared or whatever
I just assumed its because of the stars being held back. Its pretty much the only world state change besides burning the erdtree.
Tbh I’m fairly convinced everything from the war with Radahn to Mohg capturing Miquella was actually part of Miquella’s plan to begin with.
Whether Mohg and Miquella were in on it together, or if Mohg was an unknowing participant thinking he was the mastermind when in reality it was Miquella im not sure.
But it doesent seem very much like a coincidence that the events that transpired as a direct result of both of these things puts Miquella in a perfect position to do whatever it is he’s trying to do.
Another intriguing angle! I've also toyed with the idea that Mohg was bewitched by Miquella, since the Haligtree is basically a giant Bewitching Branch. I hope we find out more in June!
@@garrulousgoldmask a part of me wonders if Malenia isn’t fully aware of Miquella’s plan either.
When she says she’s awaiting his return it’s easy to assume she’s talking about his slumber in the tree.
But now I wonder if she’s waiting for him to come back from the DLC place.
Radahn’s reason to hold back the stars is explained well in game. That it ruined Miquella’s plans is incidental not intentional.
Radahn stopped the stars to save Selia from a meteor. Otherwise: Selia would have suffered the same fate as Yelough Anix: wiped out by a meteor and an Astel type creature. When you wonder what fighting the stars would have looked like: you can imagine that.
Radahn didn't stop protecting Selia after he fought Malenia and went mad.
Radahn didn't stop protecting Selia until you, the player character, kills him.
Your observation that Mohg's palace is under Caelid is important for a reason.
Here's the real reason: they want players to be a good enough level to be prepped for the dlc, lol. And they also don't want people to rush to it, so they added Radahn as a requirement.
You've eaten some Miracle Whip with a spoon before, haven't you?
I can see that explanation for Malenia given that she attacks us for no reason at all. Still think Radahn is a good guy though and every "star" is in fact an eldritch abomination like fallingstar beasts or astels.
It's trully impressive how no one has talked about the fucking Amber Star Light since the DLC trailer droped.
Raddahn has the fate of the Gods halted as well. Miquela needs him dead so that he can Manipulate the Destiny of the Outer Gods.
Raddahn is a conerstone of the Golden Order in the Lands Between.
The Reason no one could become Elden Lord until We kill Raddahn is because no one could kill Raddahn! something always happens and no one becomes a Lord or a God.
Raddahn needs to die for the destiny of the Lands Between to continue.
Makes me think of Berserk, and how the eclipse was related to reincarnation there.
I think this is about to get flipped on its head
The more we learn about lore the more we find out how much of a powerhouse Radahn was. Not only was he dying from rot and holding back all the stars but also Ranni's destiny with the full moon, the eclipse and the red star all while fighting the PC?
i always wonder why the fuck miquella's hand is so big?
it's bigger than our character
What if the erdtree is above this land? Like “the lands between” are above this shadow realm….. Maybe the tree we are seeing is holding up the erdtree? Ive heard people say they see one tree “squeezing” another…. but thats not what i see…. I see this tree below the erdtree and kinda acting like roots holding it up
We go up to farum so not a bad theory but you can see spirits that physically exist through St Trinas torch so there are plenty of semi transparent things like evergaols and spirit summons and torrent and even rannis second face that interact when they want
Great theory but I just can't see Radahn being diabolically jealous like that but this lore is so confusing it's a possibility fr
I still dont understand why Radahn held the stars. Could he also have done it for Ranni? Well.. Ranni needed us to kill him for the stars so scratch that… still great vid
Tarnished Archaologist said Miquella wasted to collect enough unalloyed gold to build a giant needle to kill Godwin and the corrupted erdtree roots.
Because everyone deserves to witness peak
Amazing lore video ❤ better than shows for me
Simple. The Lands between hate red heads. 😢
I think for miquellas plan to work the stars would need to move that’s why she left to fight radhan and then he was stolen
We should be able to fight radahn without the rot infection
Terrible take. The jerren “bloody finger” stuff was good
And now we find out that radhan is final boss for the DLC