I agree that the ads are no problem!! I'm so thankful for such great content you consistently give us...at no charge! My thinking is continually changed to be more Chrst-like as I listen to your videos. Thank you so much! I pray God continues to fill and empower you for His work 🙏
As an adoptee who wants adoption reform and education, I enjoyed this conversation. I was prepared to be ‘triggered’ as I frequently am by Christians bringing up adoption, but I was pleasantly surprised. Thank you for your work, Katy!
My husband and I are adoptive parents of two sons and bio parents of one daughter. All are adults, two are married, and I have one beautiful, thriving granddaughter conceived through IVF. Two more embryos (grandchildren) are still frozen. Her mom had an extremely difficult delivery and they are talking now about adoption for their second (and possibly third?) child. I have gently asked about the embryos and their plans and it doesn’t seem like these babies will have a chance. This is so sad to me; aside from expressing my beliefs and desires for these babies, I have no say. But I can pray, and I will, for the rights of children: for life, and to know where they come from and where they belong. Can’t wait to read this book.
I'm so glad that I saw this while working on a thread on this topic to answer someone's question about my reasoning for not agreeing with IVF. I'll be sharing this in the thread along with the link to the Them Before Us website for more info. I hope to be able to share the info while being respectful as you both were here and help share the info for others to learn.
At age 17, I found out that I would not be able to have children. I married my high school sweetheart in 1980 just about the time IVF was being made known to the public. At the time I felt it was ethically wrong and so we pursued adoption. This is the first conversation I’ve heard of that confirms my feelings from so long ago. Thank you so much for taking a really good look at this subject. We feel strongly about abortion, but what about all the embryos sitting in freezers!
Thank you Katie and Alisa. Very difficult subject because we don't want to cause pain to loved ones on such a sensitive issue but the truth needs to be said, in love. The hope of Christianity is that God redeems us and works ALL things for the good of those who love Him! This is why, even in our guilt, we need not despair.
I’m so glad that the Christian pro life community is revisiting the conversation on IVF. I’m a triplet from an IVF pregnancy that I think my Christian parents tried to do in an ethical way. I naturally have a lot of questions about this now that I’m a mother who cares about children’s rights. I’m also sorting through how the risks and complications involved may have affected my overall health throughout my life. I remember trying to find out more about IVF when I was a young adult attending Summit Ministries, and I actually asked Scott Klusendorf point blank what he thought about IVF (without telling him that’s how I was conceived!) I remember he didn’t have much of an answer at the time, just that it’s between the parents and God. I believe the Holy Spirit can absolutely give you wisdom about these decisions if you’re seeking Him, but I have felt like this isn’t talked about enough, and people in the church need answers! Loved this discussion!
I am not someone who thinks kids rule, and I thought this was where Katy was going; like an extreme empathetic view. I was wrong. She is talking about protecting kids ❤ Thanks for speaking about these tough subjects, Katy and Alisa!
I am thankful for this info on IVF. So many problems associated with stepping into IVF, and your guest gave excellent reasons why that is so. One of the great, fundamental lessons I learned as a new Christian was that it was God’s will that was to be done - not my will to be done. This is the great lesson I see here. This is the great temptation we all deal with. What if we don’t get what we hoped for? Will we insist on it? Go to extreme measures to bring it about? What if God has another plan that crosses our hopes and dreams? What if the promises of the world or the scientific community create more problems than they supposedly fulfill or fix? We’ve all been seduced by our own wills and wants. When we finally achieve what we want, however, we discover that God knew best all along and wish we had listened to and followed His way and not our own. I am thankful we can go to Him with our ashes of life and ask forgiveness and help to start over with our eyes on Him and His plan.
This was a very informative conversation. Thank you so much. I used to feel neutral about such things as IVF and surrogacy, but the more I learn about them, the more possible harms I see in them.
I appreciate that this is such an honest conversation. It is so refreshing if I am honest. I did not grow up with my biological parents and I suffered all of which you described, Alisa. I think a lot of my (lack of) upbringing caused me to feel really strongly about children needing their biological mother and father!
Great conversation! This has been something on my heart the last several years as I learn more. I have Christian friends who’ve done ivf and had left over embryos and didn’t give them a second thought because they were “done”. Several years ago we heard about the number of frozen embryos (1M at that time) and my heart sunk. We ended up doing embryo adoption through a Christian agency who transfers any and every embryo that has even one living cell- and our baby is due in April. However my heart is still heavy as we continue to learn more so that we can best equip ourselves to have the ongoing conversations about their origin. Our baby was “donated” by a couple who used both a sperm and egg donor- so many degrees of separation. I often feel like this conversation doesn’t wade into the waters of embryo adoption. (We were not infertile, have 7 bio kids, but continued to have our hearts pulled towards adoption which we can’t foster in our state b/c of too many kids and have been turned away by adoption agencies for the same reason). But I am so thankful that this topic is being discussed.
God is the author of marriage and family, and He knows best. That’s a full stop. It’s also true we live in a fallen world and need to strive for what’s God’s best or working towards that as Christians. Awesome convo, ladies!!!! As a Catholic, love the shout out she had for Catholic natural law theology. So deep and true and biblical :) Side note, it was SO GOOD to see you recently at Share the Arrows, Alisa!!!
I know a couple who adopted a sibling group of frozen embryos. To their great joy, the wife was able to carry a number of the babies to birth. They also lost a few along the way, and she grieves those lost babies so very much.
One of my favorite videos. Biblical in every sense, as the Lord asks us to think of our neighbors as higher esteem than ourselfs, and in that way thinking of the others first. I think we take things for granted and never ask questions. Personally I am thanful for the ads since I have been able to enjoy 7 weeks cofee and recomend to others. Thanks Alisa!
Excellent presentation! I’m actually not triggered at all. “Break Point” supports this same view (from what I recall) - completely in line with scripture, by my understanding.
Thank you so much for bringing all this to light. This topic is so crucial for the church. Sadly even people in the church think of it from an adult perspective. May this help bring the truth to light!
I say this with great respect and love. Is it possible that if God doesn’t allow a husband and wife to conceive, it means God didn’t intend for that couple to have a child through natural means?
I appreciated the facts But wonder the percentages of eggs and fertilized eggs that never make it to life in a female. I think there is far more to consider while grappling this topic
I am so grateful the work you have put in to what do. Thankful that you are willing to have the difficult conversations. As an aside, I wondered if you might have a recommendation on resources for blended families, and being a step-parent…. 🙏
Thanks for sharing this very insightful interview. The aspect about IVF, and such procedures, that has always troubled me is that man is playing God in even making this available. I sincerely believe that God will put a stop to this just as He did with the Tower of Babel. Thanks again.
Am I the only one who found some of this maddening? It sounds to me like she is saying kids born from surrogacy or IVF are better off NOT EXISTING? And can we please stop assuming all Christians homeschool?
love the book "Them before us" I feel like more and more people are starting to realize why the teaching of human sexuality should be chastity..nothing outside of a permanent lifelong union open to life covers everything
One of the main distinctions is that one situation does not ever need to happen (IVF) and you are intentionally CREATING a broken situation, whereas adoption is redeeming an already broken situation.
Alisa, she doesn’t really answer your question at the end. Your question was regarding the embryos created. You really pointed to the Lord, praying. As you were asking, what now? Praying for a wise way forward. Appreciate your wisdom compassion.
Because there are a lot of secular UA-cam channels which have no ads or only ads at the start. I don't agree with much of Joe Kirby's theology but his "Off the Kirb" UA-cam channel gets over a million views at times and yet he still doesn't allow ANY ads at all, not even at the start. He had a video explaining why. Several people in Europe have Christian UA-cam channels that are free with no ads. They have jobs and do this MINISTRY in their spare time
Why did you take down my comment? It was perfectly respectful. There are good reasons for discussing the points I made. I’m quite disappointed that a person I thought a fair-minded Christian would silence a brother attempting to offer help in this discussion!
More than half of this conversation had absolutely nothing to do with IVF. This was like 10 conversations in one. Her story about the “common IVF pathway” doesn’t have to be. My husband and I did IVF we chose to only make as many as we were willing to have ourselves as Alisa suggested. We did not genetically test any of our embryos and did not know genders. I really struggled with the fact that IVF is not perfect and there is a chance of loss as I’ve experienced myself. However, I do find peace with the fact that God is in control of life and death.. we tried to be as careful and mindful as possible. Im sorry, but this woman is not someone who has experienced infertility. The whole conversation was incredibly negative and gave no hope or helpful insight for people who may be struggling.
Why is America so obsessed with age. I honestly. I'm middle aged and had someone tell me I'm too old for this or that. This is so wrong given women especially live so much longer than men. Also I don't appreciate this woman using Evolution biologists as a resource Doesn't seem right on a Christian channel . 😊
God is the giver of life. I'm afraid you can come from the wording of " natural law" but as a true Christian, our " world view" Should be biblical period. I think you are on a slippery slope by not calling sin sin and hating what God hates. Proverbs 6:16-1 This woman has no scripture in her book so she takes away God The Creator. In a way she is doing the Romans 1 Lisa read.
@holiday829 Notice that you don't put God and His word first. This " natural law " is being used as her new word. Why not God says? Why not God is the creator? This is His created order, and it is The Only Way. I'm afraid this is the problem in " churches" today. God's word is being comprised. Sounds good yet, not what God has said and created. Sells books tho.
@@Ofncc24 She is talking about convincing someone who is not Christian you can't argue from that point with someone who will automatically dismiss that because they are not Christian
How? It doesn’t cost you anything to watch a free video and if you buy something through her links, it doesn’t cost you anything either. Or maybe you think that she should be working for free to make her content?
@@jocelynnelson "Off the Kirb" (a YT channel run by Englishman Joe Kirby) has a million views at times and although I don't agree with some of Joe Kirby's theology, I admire his restraint (and lack of greed) in not having ads at the start of midway through. He has a video explaining why. PLENTY of secular UA-camrs create content for free on UA-cam. And Christians too (but they tend to be in the UK and Europe, where money is less of an idol). Guess what? They have JOBS. They do it in their spare time out of love for God and others. That's the best motivation. Earning lots of $$$ from the Good News makes me feel a bit nauseous. Even the apostle Paul had a job.
@@leenieledejo6849 That's great for them that they do ministry in their spare time. However, it seems that it would be far less effective doing ministry only when you have time to do so, rather than having that calling on your life being your full time job. Also, feels like it's a completely situation for a woman who is also a wife and mother, and who home schools her children (which is a full-time job in and of itself). Furthermore, this podcast creates awareness for products and services which are sold by businesses who share our values as Christians. If you're still that bothered by ads, it's pretty easy to just fast-forward through them. Genuinely do not understand what people are expecting here. The podcast is completely free, and that's how they put out a good product and keep it free. It's pretty straightforward.
Just here to say the ads are NO BOTHER whatsoever! Thankful you're able to get the financial support required to pull off such a high quality show. 😊
Same!!
Couldn’t agree more!
I agree that the ads are no problem!! I'm so thankful for such great content you consistently give us...at no charge! My thinking is continually changed to be more Chrst-like as I listen to your videos. Thank you so much! I pray God continues to fill and empower you for His work 🙏
As an adoptee who wants adoption reform and education, I enjoyed this conversation. I was prepared to be ‘triggered’ as I frequently am by Christians bringing up adoption, but I was pleasantly surprised. Thank you for your work, Katy!
My husband and I are adoptive parents of two sons and bio parents of one daughter. All are adults, two are married, and I have one beautiful, thriving granddaughter conceived through IVF. Two more embryos (grandchildren) are still frozen. Her mom had an extremely difficult delivery and they are talking now about adoption for their second (and possibly third?) child. I have gently asked about the embryos and their plans and it doesn’t seem like these babies will have a chance. This is so sad to me; aside from expressing my beliefs and desires for these babies, I have no say. But I can pray, and I will, for the rights of children: for life, and to know where they come from and where they belong. Can’t wait to read this book.
I'm so glad that I saw this while working on a thread on this topic to answer someone's question about my reasoning for not agreeing with IVF. I'll be sharing this in the thread along with the link to the Them Before Us website for more info. I hope to be able to share the info while being respectful as you both were here and help share the info for others to learn.
At age 17, I found out that I would not be able to have children. I married my high school sweetheart in 1980 just about the time IVF was being made known to the public. At the time I felt it was ethically wrong and so we pursued adoption. This is the first conversation I’ve heard of that confirms my feelings from so long ago. Thank you so much for taking a really good look at this subject. We feel strongly about abortion, but what about all the embryos sitting in freezers!
What an eye opener about IVF!
Thank you Katie and Alisa. Very difficult subject because we don't want to cause pain to loved ones on such a sensitive issue but the truth needs to be said, in love. The hope of Christianity is that God redeems us and works ALL things for the good of those who love Him! This is why, even in our guilt, we need not despair.
I’m so glad that the Christian pro life community is revisiting the conversation on IVF. I’m a triplet from an IVF pregnancy that I think my Christian parents tried to do in an ethical way. I naturally have a lot of questions about this now that I’m a mother who cares about children’s rights. I’m also sorting through how the risks and complications involved may have affected my overall health throughout my life. I remember trying to find out more about IVF when I was a young adult attending Summit Ministries, and I actually asked Scott Klusendorf point blank what he thought about IVF (without telling him that’s how I was conceived!) I remember he didn’t have much of an answer at the time, just that it’s between the parents and God. I believe the Holy Spirit can absolutely give you wisdom about these decisions if you’re seeking Him, but I have felt like this isn’t talked about enough, and people in the church need answers! Loved this discussion!
This is eye opening stuff, Thank you ladies.
I am not someone who thinks kids rule, and I thought this was where Katy was going; like an extreme empathetic view. I was wrong. She is talking about protecting kids ❤ Thanks for speaking about these tough subjects, Katy and Alisa!
I am thankful for this info on IVF. So many problems associated with stepping into IVF, and your guest gave excellent reasons why that is so. One of the great, fundamental lessons I learned as a new Christian was that it was God’s will that was to be done - not my will to be done. This is the great lesson I see here. This is the great temptation we all deal with. What if we don’t get what we hoped for? Will we insist on it? Go to extreme measures to bring it about? What if God has another plan that crosses our hopes and dreams? What if the promises of the world or the scientific community create more problems than they supposedly fulfill or fix? We’ve all been seduced by our own wills and wants. When we finally achieve what we want, however, we discover that God knew best all along and wish we had listened to and followed His way and not our own. I am thankful we can go to Him with our ashes of life and ask forgiveness and help to start over with our eyes on Him and His plan.
This was a very informative conversation. Thank you so much. I used to feel neutral about such things as IVF and surrogacy, but the more I learn about them, the more possible harms I see in them.
I appreciate that this is such an honest conversation. It is so refreshing if I am honest. I did not grow up with my biological parents and I suffered all of which you described, Alisa. I think a lot of my (lack of) upbringing caused me to feel really strongly about children needing their biological mother and father!
Great conversation! This has been something on my heart the last several years as I learn more. I have Christian friends who’ve done ivf and had left over embryos and didn’t give them a second thought because they were “done”. Several years ago we heard about the number of frozen embryos (1M at that time) and my heart sunk. We ended up doing embryo adoption through a Christian agency who transfers any and every embryo that has even one living cell- and our baby is due in April. However my heart is still heavy as we continue to learn more so that we can best equip ourselves to have the ongoing conversations about their origin. Our baby was “donated” by a couple who used both a sperm and egg donor- so many degrees of separation. I often feel like this conversation doesn’t wade into the waters of embryo adoption. (We were not infertile, have 7 bio kids, but continued to have our hearts pulled towards adoption which we can’t foster in our state b/c of too many kids and have been turned away by adoption agencies for the same reason). But I am so thankful that this topic is being discussed.
God is the author of marriage and family, and He knows best. That’s a full stop. It’s also true we live in a fallen world and need to strive for what’s God’s best or working towards that as Christians. Awesome convo, ladies!!!! As a Catholic, love the shout out she had for Catholic natural law theology. So deep and true and biblical :)
Side note, it was SO GOOD to see you recently at Share the Arrows, Alisa!!!
I know a couple who adopted a sibling group of frozen embryos. To their great joy, the wife was able to carry a number of the babies to birth. They also lost a few along the way, and she grieves those lost babies so very much.
One of my favorite videos. Biblical in every sense, as the Lord asks us to think of our neighbors as higher esteem than ourselfs, and in that way thinking of the others first. I think we take things for granted and never ask questions.
Personally I am thanful for the ads since I have been able to enjoy 7 weeks cofee and recomend to others.
Thanks Alisa!
Great discussion and very thought provoking. I plan to read the book. Thanks!
Such an important topic, thank you.
So thankful for these wise women. 24:05 - 24:20 POWERful.
Thank you ladies for truth and grace❤
So informative and eye opening! Thank you, Alisa, for having Katy on to speak about these issues!
Excellent episode
THANK-YOU both!!
Keep speaking about this!
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Sagely and timely. It takes wisdom to parse through it beyond "To each their own."
Excellent presentation! I’m actually not triggered at all. “Break Point” supports this same view (from what I recall) - completely in line with scripture, by my understanding.
Thank you so much!
Thank you so much for bringing all this to light. This topic is so crucial for the church. Sadly even people in the church think of it from an adult perspective. May this help bring the truth to light!
I say this with great respect and love. Is it possible that if God doesn’t allow a husband and wife to conceive, it means God didn’t intend for that couple to have a child through natural means?
I appreciated the facts
But wonder the percentages of eggs and fertilized eggs that never make it to life in a female.
I think there is far more to consider while grappling this topic
I am so grateful the work you have put in to what do. Thankful that you are willing to have the difficult conversations. As an aside, I wondered if you might have a recommendation on resources for blended families, and being a step-parent…. 🙏
Thanks for sharing this very insightful interview. The aspect about IVF, and such procedures, that has always troubled me is that man is playing God in even making this available. I sincerely believe that God will put a stop to this just as He did with the Tower of Babel. Thanks again.
Thank you so much for having Katy on! I so appreciate her consistent pro-life & pro-child ethic. I'm definitely sharing this episode!
How many clinics actually do 15 embryos? I’ve heard some will only do 2-3 at a time and only implant one at a time
I think it would have been helpful to have concluded this with what the hope is sterile couples can cling to
Am I the only one who found some of this maddening? It sounds to me like she is saying kids born from surrogacy or IVF are better off NOT EXISTING?
And can we please stop assuming all Christians homeschool?
love the book "Them before us" I feel like more and more people are starting to realize why the teaching of human sexuality should be chastity..nothing outside of a permanent lifelong union open to life covers everything
The truth is still the truth no matter how difficult it is to hear.
Some of the arguments she uses against IVF are the same arguments that can be used against adoption.
Such as?
One of the main distinctions is that one situation does not ever need to happen (IVF) and you are intentionally CREATING a broken situation, whereas adoption is redeeming an already broken situation.
48:55 Huau that was mind blowing 🤯 😮💨
Extremely helpful
Beautiful!! 💚💙✨ 😻
I find it interesting that a difference of opinion is presupposed as feeling convicted or triggered.
Alisa, she doesn’t really answer your question at the end. Your question was regarding the embryos created. You really pointed to the Lord, praying.
As you were asking, what now? Praying for a wise way forward. Appreciate your wisdom compassion.
I would be interested to hear Katy's thoughts on embryo adoption.
Ad haters are ridiculous.
They expect you to have a full-time job without being compensated?
IVF cannot be done ethically bc for every surviving child they are cursed to have MANY unalive siblings.
Imagine complaining about ads on a FREE podcast. 🤦♀️
Because there are a lot of secular UA-cam channels which have no ads or only ads at the start.
I don't agree with much of Joe Kirby's theology but his "Off the Kirb" UA-cam channel gets over a million views at times and yet he still doesn't allow ANY ads at all, not even at the start.
He had a video explaining why.
Several people in Europe have Christian UA-cam channels that are free with no ads.
They have jobs and do this MINISTRY in their spare time
Why did you take down my comment?
It was perfectly respectful.
There are good reasons for discussing the points I made.
I’m quite disappointed that a person I thought a fair-minded Christian would silence a brother attempting to offer help in this discussion!
What was your comment?
More than half of this conversation had absolutely nothing to do with IVF. This was like 10 conversations in one.
Her story about the “common IVF pathway” doesn’t have to be.
My husband and I did IVF we chose to only make as many as we were willing to have ourselves as Alisa suggested. We did not genetically test any of our embryos and did not know genders. I really struggled with the fact that IVF is not perfect and there is a chance of loss as I’ve experienced myself. However, I do find peace with the fact that God is in control of life and death.. we tried to be as careful and mindful as possible.
Im sorry, but this woman is not someone who has experienced infertility. The whole conversation was incredibly negative and gave no hope or helpful insight for people who may be struggling.
IVF aside, how many have had children naturally for our own selfish reasons and how has it effected how they were raised?
Thanks for this informative post. Please consider a discussion on euthanasia as in what is happening in Canada and Europe.
I thought this was very well put, I'm curious as to the view of medication for infertility.
Why is America so obsessed with age. I honestly. I'm middle aged and had someone tell me I'm too old for this or that. This is so wrong given women especially live so much longer than men. Also I don't appreciate this woman using Evolution biologists as a resource Doesn't seem right on a Christian channel . 😊
ESG ???!!!
God is the giver of life. I'm afraid you can come from the wording of " natural law" but as a true Christian, our " world view" Should be biblical period. I think you are on a slippery slope by not calling sin sin and hating what God hates.
Proverbs 6:16-1
This woman has no scripture in her book so she takes away God The Creator. In a way she is doing the Romans 1 Lisa read.
the point was that natural law is created by God so because God cannot contradict himself natural law is compatible with the bible
@holiday829 Notice that you don't put God and His word first. This " natural law " is being used as her new word. Why not God says? Why not God is the creator?
This is His created order, and it is The Only Way. I'm afraid this is the problem in " churches" today. God's word is being comprised. Sounds good yet, not what God has said and created. Sells books tho.
@@Ofncc24 She is talking about convincing someone who is not Christian you can't argue from that point with someone who will automatically dismiss that because they are not Christian
You clearly do not understand natural law. It is based on a Biblical worldview. It's not new.
@janetl_s2988 then why not use scripture to explain that? God is the creator. She and her husband are not biblical.
Conceived thru the martial act is more accurate than saying sexual act.
Sadly conception also happens outside of marriage
This is cringe
I can't believe physics creates you people.
Alisa is getting her hands in your wallet.
How? It doesn’t cost you anything to watch a free video and if you buy something through her links, it doesn’t cost you anything either. Or maybe you think that she should be working for free to make her content?
@@jocelynnelson She isn't sincere. She just wants to get your money.
@@jocelynnelson "Off the Kirb" (a YT channel run by Englishman Joe Kirby) has a million views at times and although I don't agree with some of Joe Kirby's theology, I admire his restraint (and lack of greed) in not having ads at the start of midway through.
He has a video explaining why.
PLENTY of secular UA-camrs create content for free on UA-cam.
And Christians too (but they tend to be in the UK and Europe, where money is less of an idol).
Guess what?
They have JOBS.
They do it in their spare time out of love for God and others. That's the best motivation.
Earning lots of $$$ from the Good News makes me feel a bit nauseous.
Even the apostle Paul had a job.
@@leenieledejo6849 That's great for them that they do ministry in their spare time. However, it seems that it would be far less effective doing ministry only when you have time to do so, rather than having that calling on your life being your full time job. Also, feels like it's a completely situation for a woman who is also a wife and mother, and who home schools her children (which is a full-time job in and of itself). Furthermore, this podcast creates awareness for products and services which are sold by businesses who share our values as Christians. If you're still that bothered by ads, it's pretty easy to just fast-forward through them. Genuinely do not understand what people are expecting here. The podcast is completely free, and that's how they put out a good product and keep it free. It's pretty straightforward.
@@leenieledejo6849how about YOU put out free content, stop complaining and do something about it