Rosaria Butterfield Sounds the Alarm on the Threat of Side B "Gay Christianity”
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- Опубліковано 10 лют 2024
- Rosaria Butterfield joins the podcast to talk about some insidious lies the church is buying into. One of these lies is the idea that Christians can identify themselves as LGBTQ, even if they don’t engage in sinful behavior. This “side B Christianity” is sweeping through our churches, many of which are unaware of the heretical teachings that undergird this movement that markets itself as being biblically faithful. We also discuss the potential influence of side B thinking in the recent conversations surrounding Alistair Begg’s comments about Christians attending same-sex weddings. Finally, we talk about the transgender movement and how it relates with the sin of envy.
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Alisa and Rosaria, thank you so much for this video! I am a 26 year old man who left homosexuality and a life of prostitution in 2019. I am now pursuing seminary and i am so encouraged to hear of people who are not scared to touch on this topic in this day and age! God bless you both💛
Powerful!! bless you brother 🤍 this is encourages my soul that change is possible.
Yes, your testimony is a reminder that God is still in the heart changing business! May the Lord continue to give you grace and strength!
God is so good!
Alisa & Rosaria always bring amazing insight. I was hit hard with this one, especially side B "Christianity" and ssa "just a struggle" thinking.
Thank you so much. You guys are a clarion gift to the Body. 🙏
It rather amazes me that Christians are still willing to tackle this and that YT doesn't just ban these types of videos and interviews. They censor just about everything else. I suppose that will be coming soon. It's hard to be a Christian now, unless you're a jellyfish and give in to the alphabet mafia and celebrate their sexuality w/ them. They erroneously claim that if you don't affirm and clap for them, that you're attacking their core identity.
Oh em gee! I remember when I was a teenager I dressed boyish and walked like a bro to avoid attention from weirdos. No one understood why I dressed that way. And I didn’t want to share it either. How many girls like me today are being tricked into transgenderism. God have mercy on us and give us wisdom.
Me too!!
Me three! I got mistaken for a boy regularly. I cried when I was forced to wear a dress. I’m so glad I wasn’t 12 in today’s culture. I would probably have been permanently disfigured.
Same here. I'm 60 now. I've never been super feminine and I was your typical tomboy. Puberty was awful (menstruation, breasts, attention from boys & men, etc.). Young girls today are being told they can pause puberty! They can be boys! I dare say it's demonic that we have medical professionals who are willing to perform double mastectomies and hysterectomies on young, healthy but very confused women. I'm sure for these so-called medical professionals, it's all about the money. May God have mercy on us. 😢
I feel you, as me too. I am 65, am so grateful I was born then. I am not a frilly girly girl, but I am definitely all woman. Yet, I think that I would have been challenged at that period I was susceptible. I look back now and am grateful for having God keep me shielded from this insanity.
I was a tomboy growing up, and my oldest daughter is just like me in so many ways, and she swore off dresses at age 6, and has never been “girly”, but she is also not confused about being a woman. If she had been born just a few years later, she might have been brainwashed by the madness going on around the issue of gender on social media. Praise God that she was born early enough to escape this Mao Marxist indoctrination that’s going on with our youth and gender, and Marxist ideology is EXACTLY what is happening. Thousands of young people are going to realize soon enough that they have been BRAINWASHED into believing something false about themselves, and as a result they have IRREVERSIBLY mutilated their bodies with surgery, or sterîIizéd themselves with oral chemical castration drugs. When that happens, the fallout is going to be horrific. I would not be surprised if they don’t unaIìve themselves or their parents for pushing them into doing irreversible things to themselves, because their parents FAILED to protect them from harm. My daughter is 18 now, and she is not super-feminine, but she is exactly who she wants to be, and she loves being a woman, but she just despises dresses. At what point did people forget that the things you enjoy doing, or how you like to dress, doesn’t have a darn thing to do with gender? We went from “don’t stereotype gender”, to “if you fit the stereotypical traits of a specific gender, if it’s opposite what you were born, then you’re in the wrong body”. Absolute nonsense. I feel so sorry for these children who have been brainwashed and deceived into destroying their bodies. I hope they sue everyone who deceived them, especially the doctors who butchered them, and even their parents who FAILED to protect them. How ignorant can a parent be to just believe the Marxist gender propaganda that is all over social media? I also didn’t give my children cell phones until they were well into high school, so they didn’t have access to the ßS propaganda online that has brainwashed so many young people. So many parents should be absolutely ashamed of what they’ve allowed to be done to their naïve children. They were supposed to be the voice of reason, but instead they became mouthpieces for the Marxist gender propaganda that’s destroying their children. Utterly despicable, and inexcusable.
My daughter wanted me to embrace and celebrate that she identified as a bisexual, queer. After 5 sessions of counselling I told her I loved her but could not embrace or celebrate in this. She concluded that she had to end the relationship with me. It has meant that not only for now, I have lost my daughter but also my 3 grandkids. It is the most painful journey I have ever walked! Her eternity is too important! I white-knuckle His word and count the cost, knowing He is able to move mountains! I am so grateful for the resources I have found and the people who have walked their journeys' - Rosaria Butterflield thank you! Christopher Yuan, Beckett Cook, Alisha Childers!
I am praying for you and your family, that the Lord may grant her repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and she may come to her senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will, 2 Timothy 2:25-26
@@845karolewithak thank you!!!
Keep praying. God is faithful. Never give up
Im sorry but your daughter should come first. Why waste family on prejudice?
@@Quint-ib4nf I'm sorry but the bible says otherwise in Matthew 10:37-39.
People say, "I was born this way." Jesus says, " That's why you need to be BORN-AGAIN!"
Nobody was born that way. It is an abomination to God. And He cannot contradict Himself.
In all my years on earth, I have NEVER heard this comeback!!! Brilliant!!!
👏 👏 👏 👑 👑 👑 🙏 🙏 🙏 🖐 👐 🖐 👐 🖐
Born-Again is truly the Holy Spirit that lives in you. That's being born again. Maybe a person was born this way (the nature of sin - anything can happen). Out with the old self, in with the new self. Paul says, "I used to walk in this way (any sin), but now...Paul says (1 Corinthians 3)." You may have been born with these tendencies, but you pray and repent and focus on God. We carry empathy because "I too sin." So if someone has these tendencies, sin is not easy, but the only thing that saves is the blood of Christ. You will struggle, but you must be in prayer and supplication. ALL have fallen short.....I'm hetero, but sin was a part of me from birth. We must grow in the likeness of Christ and turn away from all sin and tendencies, etc..etc..etc.
Not everyone says they’re born “this way.” Many are born again to recognize their authentic selves is not the model of Christianity we’ve grown up with. I hope you can be awakened to God’s radical love.
Reincarnation
A great discussion from a former professor and LGBT person/ advocate to repented of their sin and is speaking out.
You also can’t be rich and Christian but nobody likes to talk about that one.
@@CMA418thats not true
@@Janevelyn “woe to the rich…”
@@Janevelyn Being super wealthy is more condemned by Christ than homosexual acts but you guys just want to believe what you want. It's about pushing a narrative that suits your agenda. Has nothing to do with being biblical. Deacondan said he's a former professor and LGBT as if you can't be those things and be a christian lol. Using that logic, nobody is a christian cause we're all sinners or are you gonna tell me your sins are on a more forgiving rank than the LGBT crowds lol.
@@CMA418 Where do you get that?? It's what we do w/the money that counts, not the money itself! If a person hoards all of their money to themselves, then yeah they will be judged. If they share w/others, then they will be blessed even more. Abraham was VERY rich, but he walked in obedience to God.
Bold, brave and Authentically LOVING truth. May each one of us be willing to count the cost and stand for truth in real love.
Nothing brave about this broken and confused woman who scratches the itchy ears of those like yours.
Hello. My name is Aurm. On my UA-cam channel, you can find my original music that might interest you. You are welcome to use it for FREE in your videos,
Thank you so much! So much clarity in these subjects that are dividing the church and confusing so many Christians and non Christians. All three of my kids will now be homeschooling their children and I would've never thought they would do that but they see what is happening in the schools right now and I praise God their eyes were opened. I just shared this with four friends, and will continue to share it with many young families I love the line at the end...you are fighting for the souls of your children. Get them OUT of public schools
Youre a cult member.
Love watching Alisas journey and growing in strength to stand against what MUCH of Christian media currently compromises on. Rosaria is incredible and may more hear her message and advice
Thank you Alisa and Rosaria for speaking the truth! As believers in this fallen world, we need to know how to respond to this issue. Looking forward to reading this book. God bless you both♥
Dr. Butterfield is a wonderful source of inspiration.
great interview! Thank you, Alisa! love the new music too :)
Thanks for this, this was excellent. When Rosaria points out that repent is the first imperative of the gospel for a reason, this is very insightful. This implies we all have something to repent from; namely our sin nature. This gets to the root of much of the confusion in our world today which is that the depravity of mankind is not currently understood nor acknowledged as fact. Humanism has moved the lie of the essential goodness of man into our collective belief system. The gospel is no good news to one that does not understand and acknowledge their slavery to sin, their sin sick state.
I'm still listening to the podcast and you're about to go into the conversation about side B, but I wanted to give my two cents on it, as a former side B person. At first I used to think it was the answer to my prayers. I wanted fellowship with gay men, but I couldn't get it from going to the clubs or hook ups. I tried online affinity groups and I just couldn't connect. When I found out about GCN, I was so excited to learn more. When I started seeing that the side A world was pretty much the gay community, but with "fear of God", it left me wanting more. I then learned about side B and how it helps a biblical perspective on marriage and sex. I was so enthralled and wanted to belong. I was part of online groups and gatherings that happened in a one on one and group level. We were all men and women (keep that in mind) from all religions that loved God and wanted to create long lasting friendships. Then around 2018, more and more people started acknowledging tland defending being identified as queer, gay Christian, pride month, rainbow flags, etc. I started becoming slightly uncomfortable. I then wanted to leave the movement, but I was enchanted by the concept of celibate partnerships. You mean I can have "someone" and not worry about sex or about weddings and marriage because we both stand on the same ground? You mean I can cuddle with someone without needing to worry about sexual temptation? I could see interest in many, especially new side b people. I tried a couple of times to have a committed friendship and it would go haywire. Right away, lust, insecurity, and desire for more kicked in. Many guys have fallen to temptation because they toy with the idea of cuddling, sometimes naked, kissing, etc. I fell for temptation along with another person and we felt guilty, but kept going. Ultimately, I thought it was best to end it for their sake and mine. As the years continued, some of the online communities began affirming gender non conforming people, pronouns, etc. I checked in with a friend recently and the groups she is a part of are just a cesspool of progressive thoughts.
One more thing I want to bring up is the fact that this movement is just a stepping stone for people to become side A "gay Christians" or people that just become agnostic because they rather follow the flesh than God. I was witness to many people using these groups as their savior and their mental health counsel. Many people came into these groups broken and needing healing, but expecting Christians to heal them, instead of Christ. Some people in this movement suffer depression, can be narcissists, and focus more on the struggle of satisfying their carnal desires. They like to be in that rot and even if they are given words of encouragement, want to stay down and only receive words of pity because it makes them feel seen. It also doesn't help there's a group where you have to pay at least five dollars a month to be part of their social media accounts and if you don't, you get disconnected and people don't really engage with you. Very cultish.
Wow. Thank you for sharing from the trenches of experience.
I had no idea people in that following were feeling this way! When my son first came out I watched Matthew Vine and GCN and hoped my son would join them, but being in University, he left his childhood faith altogether, ffwd 13 years, he’s a med DR and engaged to his boyfriend to be married this summer and my husband and I are at odds about attending their destination wedding, with EVERYONE but (us and our daughter and her family) being very WOKE…
“Homosexuality is the thief hiding in the closet of your own heart to steal your identity.”
😮🔥😮🔥😮🔥😮🔥
Bruh is that a climbing wall in your profile picture
WOW! So right on!
To steam the purpose and plans for the person, to rob them of true joy and peace because there is no joy and peace in such life style, because there is no blessings on the person who practice it. Every sin put ubder the blood of Yeshua, by repentance and confession is forgiving, but the person has to turn away from it and renounce it, in Yeshua’s name
No. Gum Wall. Tourist site in Seattle.@@paulsampson6286
Medical Science has had the ability to accurately and affordably test people's sexuality in a lab setting since the 1950s. And in all that time, not one person has ever been able to show that their sexuality changed during the course of their lifetime. Not from gay to straight, not from straight to gay, not even from gay to bisexual. Not through therapeutic means and not through religious means. Also, there have been plenty of studies done on homosexuality - if it was a choice there would be precursors to that choice leading someone to want to be attracted to the same gender or leading them to actually having attraction for the same gender - yet not one study has ever found any precursor or cause.
Such a good episode. I love the train analogy!
Thanks for this video ❤🙌
One of the things I find having to guard against in my faith and walk is running headlong into error driven by zeal. Saul was zealous for God as a Pharisee; in that zeal, he ran headlong into error and persecuted Jesus and the body of Christ. I want to always be prepared to change when the Lord's Spirit speaks to me and says, stop. You are on the wrong path and got ahead of where I was directing you. This is a great conversation, and the key phrase was, 'How do we love people well and stay connected to the prodigals without being indoctrinated. This goes to being in the world but not of it. I find this question roaring to life within the body of Christ.
Thank you, Alisa and Rosaria!
Amen 🔥 thank you ladies ❤
Thank you, ladies 🙏
Thank you so much!
Excellent! Excellent!! Thank you sisters for your willingness to be brave, loving truth tellers.
This was an excellent discussion.
Thank you both❤❤
Great analysis both of you.
Thank you for this. Truth hurts but we all need to hear this.
I've been waiting to hear clarity on this subject. Will be sharing with everyone I know
So thankful for both of you.
As Christians, I am wondering when we will start to acknowledge the hearts cry of the parents and grandparents in these situations. We had so much to say in podcasts throughout YT about Alistair and the error of his ways, but we never thought twice (at least I didn't hear it) about that grandmother who was seeking help. Could you imagine how she felt knowing the firestorm it started when her heart was hurting seeking direction while trying to obey God. I bet she will probably not want to ever seek help again. Also, it is so easy to say don't go to a gay wedding when it is not your child or grandchild. Unless you are walking through it, no one will understand the challenge of balancing your love of your child and love of Jesus with wanting to make the right decisions in accordance with scriptures. The guilt is also harder to let go of wondering what you did wrong as a parent while praying for their salvation but not wanting to reject them at the same time. Because when we are all in sin, we don't see it as that as we are blinded, so we see rejection rather than the message trying to be conveyed. Be thankful you don't have to deal with it personally, and if you do and were able to make a clear decision on it, then be thankful for that as well. But can we please acknowledge the people behind the debate (parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. and esp the children) and show mercy and grace to all. (Also not directing it to you both but in general as I have heard this topic on other podcasts whose messages were not as nicely delivered.)
Thanks for saying this. I'm not in this situation but have friends who are. It's heartbreaking and I would love to hear more helpful podcasts for the parents and grandparents.
You choose Jesus nmw. He said he came to put mother against daughter and father against son, to cause division. Luke 12. That’s what we need to tell our friends etc in these situations and to pastor Begg as well.
I think we all felt for the grandmother in that situation. It appeared she knew in her heart the right thing to do was to not attend the wedding, and she was looking for that backup from her pastor from a biblical perspective. Instead he gave the opposite counsel which he admitted was more from a grandfatherly perspective and desire to preserve the relationship rather than going to God’s word in prayer and meditation. That’s why many of us were so concerned about it because we think of all the parents, grandparents, etc. who will be faced with similar situations and may be tempted to compromise out of fear, guilt, a desire to protect the relationship, and other reasons. If our pastors can’t stand on God’s word and advise that loving thing to do isn’t always to please the world but please Jesus, then those people may feel the need to compromise as well. And before you know it, we all become fuzzier on where the truth rests. Catering to the world will only weaken our message to those loved ones as they won’t see a need to seek the Savior if they think there’s nothing to be saved from.
As a mom in this situation all Alistair Begg did was give ammunition for those to use against us who are standing biblically in this issue. The scripture from Mathew 10 is so helpful Jesus comes first. When we had the conversation with our child we were loving and firm. One doesn't need to be nasty in speaking truth. We pray constantly for salvation for her. I know all of us have given wrong counsel but when the,Holy Spirit convicts us we must repent and make right. So pray for repentance for Alistair Begg, until them he is not someone trustworthy.
My younger sister had an affair in HS with the band director who divorced his pregnant wife to have my sister move in with him after graduation, and they asked me to sing for their wedding. My pastor at college affirmed with me that in this case I was right in refusing to even attend. But my elder sister's husband was a young, on fire minister who had had a hand in my coming to faith, and he disagreed; in fact he stood up for them and helped perform the "ceremony", which falsely helped my younger sister feel that God had approved of this marriage. I not only was pressured to sing, I was a bridesmaid. I expressed my concern and disapproval to my aunt, with whom at the time I had felt quite close, and she never spoke to me again, citing Christian bigotry on my part. My sister got 30 rocky years out of this marriage before he did the same to her as he did to his first wife. My witness was compromised and left me super confused. My brother-in-law the minister went on to have a powerful ministry but I believe he was wrong to advise me (a baby Christian) to stand with my sister for this marriage. She is slowly surrendering to Christ at 60 yrs old but it sure is hard to repent of this relationship she worshipped instead of God at her most impressionable. This is no different from what people go through with blessing or boycotting homosexual unions among their loved ones. Sin is sin. God calls us to make the hard choices and it's still super hard for me today to stand firm against stuff like this in spite of my belief in God's very good and perfect commands.
And thank you for doing this!
God bless you and your ministry, proclaim the truth of the gospel
I love Rosaria and have been so thankful for her testimony and her willingness to repent of using preferred pronouns. I am a man who repented of homosexual sin, have been married for 36 years, have 11 children and expecting our 31st grandchild. I am GRAVELY concerned about Preston Sprinkle, Revoice and this whole "Side B" Christianity. However, I am having some difficulty understanding the viewpoints of a few others who seem to be on the opposite end of the spectrum. When we talk about external vs. internal temptation, how do we differentiate? Potiphar's wife would not have been a temptation if Joseph had not had some level of attraction toward another man's wife. Otherwise, it would not have even been tempting to lie with her. To this day, I can still be tempted at times with homosexual sin. Just like Joseph and just like Paul's admonition, I "flee youthful lusts". Are you saying that if a person is even temnpted, that he or she is still living in sin? There are no other sins that we hold to that level. I have heard that when a man lusts after a woman, that is a desire that can be rightfully fulfilled. That is not true. It will NEVER be right to lust after a woman who is not your wife. Ever. And even then, it should be an attraction born out of the desire of a deep one flesh union. Not lust. I heard of a church group that disqualifies men from ministry if they have ever even been TEMPTED by homosexual sin. Yet they regularly hire men who battle with temptation toward pornography. And if the studies are accurate (who knows it they are or not!), a vast majority of ministers do struggle with a temptation toward porn. Yet if this one man who maybe once in a long while is tempted by homosexual sin, resists it and takes that door of escape, then he is disqualified.
I guess my question for Rosaria is, what is the difference between indwelling sin of homosexuality and still being tempted at times by homosexual sin? I'm not challenging, I sincerely want to know.
I love Rosaria, Becket Cook, and Christopher Yuan. I used to use the SSA terminology. In the last year, I have been calling it past homosexual sin.
I like the sound of crickets to your question. I guess it's too logical.🤨
I haven't heard of any church saying that you can't serve in ministry if you have ever been tempted by homosexual desires. I think most churches just want people who have repented of their sins and demonstrate the fruit of the spirit in their lives. I think both types of sin are wrong. Ultimately, one should seek God's counsel when they are interested in serving in the church. Another factor is technology. Now that everything is posted on the internet, would you be comfortable being in a church where the pastor used to be a porn star? Probably not. Even if he truly repented, people would still be able to see his videos online. It would be too much of a distraction for the church.
It's only been 3 days and over 300 comments, plus it is not her UA-cam channel
Matthew 5:21-22 NIV
[21] “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ [22] But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Sin, and not just that of sexual nature, is impossible to refrain from. Regardless of faith, everyone sins everyday, either through actions or thoughts.
Elijah was tempted to suicide. Even a prophet like him was tempted, and he talked to God, did miracles and prophesied and yet still sinned.
I think Rosaria wanted people to acknowledge that they are sinning, and repent. Like a cry of warning for people, rather than just condemnation.
And my personal thoughts about your question: Internal temptation is our inability to not sin, through the simple act of thinking. It is impossible to control what we think, and the moment we even recognize temptation in our minds, we already had the thought, and thus sinned. On the other hand, Jesus is God. He can control his thoughts and doesn't even need to control because his never even inches to sin.
Indwelling sin and temptation, to me, is the same. But I'd like to point out that sanctification leads us away from sin, and if God wills it, we will no longer sin even while we live. Enoch would be a great example.
Im sorry if my writing is frustrating to understand, english is my second language and I'm still very young and unwise. I just wanted to give some help for your question and wrote some stuff that immediately came to my mind. I truly hope you find a more adequate answer from someone more qualified like a pastor, and not misunderstand God from my comment!
Seriously, take this to Jesus. He doesn’t work halfway, scripture promises that He who has begun a good work in it will finish it, He is the author and finisher of the faith. Chances are if you are worried about sin you aren’t living in it and all of your sin is now covered by the blood. I am just watching this for educational purposes but this sin is just another sin to God, they are all the same. God is truly the only one who can forgive sin and for daily alignment with the Lord say the Lord’s Prayer.
The comments regarding Preston Sprinkle are not only misleading but blatantly false at times. Preston has offered to speak directly to both Rosaria and Alisa to address their comments and concerns. It is a lack of integrity to push a false narrative and then refuse to engage a fellow believer against whom the accusations have been made. More repentance needs to take place.
Great interview !💕✝️
Peaked my interest to read her book ! Thank You Jesus for truth, grace and mercy
Timely, indeed.
I wish I had a written transcript of this. I'd like to underscore, highlight and reread so many of the words that were shared.
I have been guilty of some of these things. I treat people differently case by case. If a person is a non-believer I don't hold them to the standards of someone who says they are Christian and gay.
I know I will listen to this again. Thank you.
A transcript is available. Hit the more text under the video title.
If you go to the footnotes under the video there is a transcript of the whole interview. You could copy and paste it.
God bless you for this interview. Alistair Begg really disturbed me.
Best things Rosario said was there is no gay Christian and to change sports if a school coach comes out.
Incredible interview. Thank you so much to both of you.
Thank you for this very relevant interview. The battle continues to be over the Word - did God really say? Never affirm a lie.
Like the LIE that you are made in the image of God.
Only one Gospel:
The Gospel of Reconciliation.
Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom
to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself.
We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness.
If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever.
Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods).
Genesis 1:27: “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.”
@@qwerty-so6ml. You need help, praying for you.
Very thought provoking discussion. As a casual follower of Preston Sprinkle who generally finds him very thoughtful and careful on these issues. Alisa I wonder if you would consider having Preston on to discuss side B etc. and perhaps get perhaps a different perspective/ perhaps some further context on some of the quotes from his book.
What is sad (and some might argue sinfully deceptive) is Rosaria left out or skipped over clear statements of Preston in the quotes that clarified her concerns. It is disheartening neither Rosaria nor Alisa have agreed to discuss these matters openly with Preston when he has offered to engage in this talk for the good of the body of Christ.
Thanks for your response, thats nice of you
Thank you so much❤ I felt so heard about choosing to protect my kids by homeschooling and keeping them out of some activities. I get so much flack from both my husband's family and my own for " exposing " them to stuff. Thank you both for the good work. keep it up
you honestly sound like an awful parent. you don’t know how to cope with the real world, so your solution is to make sure your kids are as stunted and out of young as you are.
Thank you, Alyssa and Rosario, for this educational and illuminating discussion! as a 63-year-old father of three adult children and many years of ministry in the past I’m finding I’m getting asked questions like these all the time from younger pastors and also families dealing with these very topics. many prayers going for both of the work that you amazing ladies are doing! Many blessings
Saying you have "Same sex attraction" is like someone saying I have or had a porn addiction. You're not making an identity, you're exposing the specifics of your fallen nature to hopefully create an environment for others to also share where they are struggling.
That's dumb as hell make a comparison like this. People are born gay and if you think it's a choice then you should ask yourself this, why do some gay Christians choose celibacy? I mean if being gay is a choice then obviously they would just choose to quit being gay, this isn't rocket science use your brain.
And I have to be honest your statement about porn addiction makes me laugh so hard, because it's a known fact that the biggest consumers of porn are conservative Christians. So there is clearly a disconnect somewhere with conservatives.
Thank you for your service.
Thanks for this enlightening podcast
Thank you Alisa & Rosario for speaking God’s truth in love ❤
I have a great deal of respect for both of these women and I appreciate each of their ministries. I do have a question about being made in the image of God. In Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology, he writes
"Every single human being, no matter how much the image of God is marred by sin, or illness, or weakness, or age, or any other disability, still has the status of being in God’s image and therefore must be treated with the dignity and respect that is due to God’s image-bearer. This has profound implications for our conduct toward others. It means that people of every race deserve equal dignity and rights. It means that elderly people … and children yet unborn deserve full protection and honor as human beings.” (p.450)
So I wanted to ask for clarification with Dr. Butterfield about her view that people who practice homosexual sin are not made in the image of God, or perhaps I misunderstand her statements on this.
Thank you both for serving the Lord in such meaningful and profound ways. Your work is a blessing to all of us.
My understanding is that Rosaria was not denying that every human is made in the image of God, but rather, that the image of God in every human is rooted in their biological sex (Genesis 1:27). So, it would be incorrect to say that "God made me in his image AS a lesbian/gay person."
Ah, I see. Thank you for the clarification.
@@JB-kl4pn I don't get it. The gay and lesbian sexual orientation has nothing to do with biological sex. So, if a person identifies as gay, they're not identifying as the opposite gender and making null and void the image of God. Am I missing something?
Very thought provoking
I am so excited listening to this podcast and will definitely be buying this book. My son identifies as a trans woman lesbian. He is 29 and it’s been 3 years since he left the family and blocked us off and on. The last time he blocked me was when he wanted me to call him my daughter and call him by his new legal name . I told him I couldn’t at this time and that my affirmation of his gender or name would not in anyway give him what he truly seeks. I always affirm my love for him no matter what. The hate text I received after refusing to call him the new name was like demons speaking. Even this week I was told by another believer that I should just call him the name he wants because that’s what will save him. This has been a journey and I know the road ahead probably isn’t short or easy. But, I have a promise and I declare it over him every day. Micah 7:7-10
Hi Alisa, Preston Sprinkles has stated that there are many inaccurate representations of his views and quotes taken out of context. I heard that he has asked you to allow him to respond to those inaccuracies on your show. Have you responded to him?
Thank you for having Rosaria on. She is such a voice of sanity in a culture gone mad.
There are a lot of words that I could use for her, sane is not one of them.
Thank you! I know all that you are saying, but it just so good to hear it again every ones in a while. I have a daughter who is trying to blackmail me now. As long as I don't call her by her boys name, she will not talk to me about how things are going with her. It hurts. It's hard. But I can't give in to her blackmail. And then it's just so good to be encouraged by people like you!
he’s not blackmailing you. he’s a child asking for his parent to love him and see him. he’s going through a lot of shit, you’re clearly piling more shit on top, and he’s doing what he can to maintain his dignity while managing the dysphoria.
you keep up this behavior then you’ll lose your kid. either he’ll stop talking to you, or worse. calling it blackmail just shows how manipulative of a parent you are.
That's not blackmail, that is a firm and explicit boundary.
If you don't want to call him by his new name, well that's you're choice, but you knew the consequences and you chose it anyways.
It's no good to come to the comment section for sympathy when this is what you chose.
And you're luckier than some, it seems like you've been given the option to change your mind, so for as you're cut off, that is your decision.
And so you have to make the decision over and over again, do you want an imaginary daughter? or Do you want a living son?
@@Grokford I call her by her given name, the name that belongs to her. She will live, don't try to manipulate people with that threat, the suicide numbers don't get any better after transition. I trust in God, He did not make a mistake when He created her in my womb and He did intent for her to be a boy. I pray God blesses you with insight about God's infallibility and love. Be blessed
@@saskiae200
" I call her by her given name, the name that belongs to her."
I've had many names over the course of my life, at least three that I used full time, another which was specific to one language, and a couple more that were functional, online personas, the name I always gave to restaurants.
And what I've learned from that experience might seem obvious in retrosepct, but names are a form of social recognition.
And because of that names are only truly names if we accept them.
I've been more in the habit of adding new names than getting rid of them, but I can recall a few occasions in which someone stubbornly refused to use the correct name.
It was ultimately harmless, but it was a firm reminder that these people neither knew me, nor particularly cared.
By insisting on using a name that someone has rejected what you are effectively communicating is that you reject the way that a person wants to be recognize and in so using, you are trying to bind them to a version of themselves that you expect.
It is hostile.
But I think you know that.
"She will live, don't try to manipulate people with that threat, the suicide numbers don't get any better after transition."
I wasn't talking about suicide, but since you brought it up I think it's worth mentioning that that is a very real concern
I don't think you have accurate sources on the rate of suicide, but even supposing your numbers were true, I would still expect a parent to want a happy child than a miserable one.
And the results on that are much better established.
Gender transition drastically reduces the rate of depression for those who choose it. Results far outpacing that of conventional anti-depressants.
Though I can also tell you from personal experience that becoming disenfranchised from your family is not an easy thing. It is one of the most painful and dangerous things that a person can go through.
It can easily be the thing that pushes people on the edge of disaster right into the depths.
I do not think that it is wise to underestimate your role here. You are the mother, losing a mother is almost universally a painful process. Whether it is as an adult, a mother you never met or a mother you willingly chose to distance yourself from.
So with all that being said, the pain and the danger that losing family can bring, the fact that your child is still willing to do so, should give you an idea of how bad the alternative is.
"I trust in God, He did not make a mistake when He created her in my womb and He did intent for her to be a boy."
Did God make a mistake when he created wheat?
I don't think so. But nevertheless we turned that wheat into bread, not because the wheat was worthless or wrong, but because it simply wasn't what we wanted or needed.
Humans have been invited by God to partake in the practice of creation.
I'm a cook, and I understand that implicitly.
I have no doubt that you do have altered the world around you, and it's a practical certainty that you've altered yourself.
Divine intent is important, but it's rarely possible to accurately assess from our limited human perspective.
But to relinquish participation in creation is to reject our placement in it.
God placed us in this world do act, accepting conditions as is, is not necessarily a virtue.
"I pray God blesses you with insight about God's infallibility and love. Be blessed"
And I pray that you might embody the unconditional Love of God.
Great Video! I shared it so that my church brothers can watch it and share it too.
Where is the video of your top 5 books giveaway? I would love to know the 5 books :)
Following
Thank you so much for challenging us with Repentance ! This message touches us all.
Great talk.
Such a good, biblical discussion!
The Word of God, our only roadmap. No compromise. We need wisdom from God in dealing lovingly with people who are stuck in such things. Good to listen to your conversation!
According to Britannica, scribes and Pharisees were two distinct groups in the 1st century. Scribes were legal experts who could draft legal documents, such as contracts for marriage, divorce, loans, and more. Pharisees were a strict Jewish religious sect who believed they were righteous and looked down on others. Many Pharisees were public teachers.
Thank you both. You are speaking the truth in love and in so doing you are strengthening other Christians. My husband and I had to leave a church over issues connected with this- principally bringing in female elders. We witnessed most of a congregation deceived into voting for it. Both of you have helped us understand the underlying root causes and they are indeed heresies. The language is indeed important- it isn't quibbling. Since leaving we have found a God-fearing, truly reformed Presbyterian church and we are so thankful not to be where we were. The categories we think under are crucial here. We must be steeped in the Living Word and dressed in the whole armour of God (Eph 6). Alistair Begg's reasoning was way off and I felt sad at first but that error and lack of public repentance for it has been necessary to teach and caution the rest of us. Christ has commanded us to "Stay Awake" and so faithful Christians must. God bless you both❤💐💐
Absolutely love this teaching. Second thing though is that so many of us can’t afford these coffees. Not everyone can. It’s sad really.
Beautiful!! ✨🦄 😻
Preston did a pretty good response and rebuttal to this video that is worth listening to if you want a more accurate representation of what he believes.
When I read her book years ago I didn’t agree with her pronoun hospitality but I could see where she was coming from. Sanctification is a process and I just hoped she would change her opinion.
And she did. Your prayers were answered.
And that’s what makes her safer than a lot of the others in this field of conversation.
Awesome dialogue
Thanks for this profound discussion. I'm a grandma of some kids that aren't trying trans, but are trying bisexual relationships. This is much to the grief of their parents and us. Your advice is good.
Hello, I'm a Queer person,
And if you want my opinion you should probably ignore everything these people say.
Despite Ms. Butterfields alleged past as a lesbian neither of these women seem understand what Queer people deal with.
I can answer any questions you want to ask, but you'd probably be better off listening to your grandchildren.
I've spent many a difficult moment thinking about how or perhaps _if_ I will ever tell my own grandmother.
So at the very least your grandchildren trust you enough to not put them in the street.
It's a very low bar, but believe me, it's not nothing.
But part of the difficulty is that my grandmother is very preoccupied with my spiritual health; likely even more than I am.
And I'm not exactly a slacker in the field of spirituality if my theology degree is anything to go by.
I was a late bloomer compared to some of my peers and I have my own regrets about that, but the one way that I'm exceedingly thankful that it took me so long to realize I was Queer was when it come to the moral literature.
I did a lot of research, and my background in linguistics and anthropology was certainly a big help. And after some research I came to the conclusion that there was no valid biblical argument against Queer people by virtue of gender alone.
But I had to come to that conclusion on my own and I had to dig through a lot of buried ideas and records, and I still might not have been able to do it if I hadn't specifically been trained to understand how translation and cultural context worked.
My grandmother hasn't done that research, she's had no reason to, and I don't know if she would have the interest or the background knowledge to do so.
So if and when I reveal who I've been dating, I imagine that she is going to be enormously concerned for me, if not outright terrified; and that's the best case scenario.
Even though I don't think that she has any reason to be scared or angry. One of those is likely going to be her reaction and I don't like that my choices are hide my life or force my grandmother to deal with an uncomfortable truth..
But more than that, I don't like that I have to worry and fret about how a parental figure is going to react to me.
I'm an adult, I live on a different continent than my family, my parents owe _me_ money.
And I still feel this fear and frustration.
Imagine what it must be like for a child in the same position.
Now combine that with all your fears and concerns about them, they're probably dealing with a lot of those too.
But they're doing it alone or at least without knowing for sure if they can depend on their family to help them without undermining them.
I remember the first time I went on a date to meet someone's parents, I could have used some reassurance, but there was no way anyone in my family would have been able to do that for me.
Last year my date ran off with someone else, and someone else spiked my drink, no one hurt me fortunately, but I did have a semi-public break down where I cried on public transport an hour. I did not tell my family.
The first time I fell in Love, I lost him and I experienced pain, which has not had an equal in all of my life, my mother was in the next room, she never knew.
Life is difficult, it just is, and but I can just about guarantee that there's nothing about being Queer that's going to hurt your grandchildren quite so much as not being able to depend on you.
Rosaria does a terrible disservice to Preston Sprinkle as this video approaches the 30 minute mark.
Granted, her main disagreement with him is the use of “gay” as an identity. Any inclination toward sexual interest in the same sex for Rosaria is morally culpable and, as she makes clear here (listen to what she says in the interview), if a person is not rid of all sexual attraction to people of the same sex, they are at risk of going to hell.
For Rosaria, it is not enough that Preston condemns homosexual lust and behaviour. It’s not enough that he does not affirm gay marriage. He must reject the idea that the inclination toward sexual interest in the same sex is a facet of identity for which the individual is not morally culpable. She rejects the idea of sexual brokenness expressed as same-sex attraction.
This raises a question: should a heterosexual person repent of all attraction to the opposite sex apart from the interest in his or her spouse? This would include interest in the opposite sex both before and after marriage. For singles, no sexual attraction to the opposite sex would be permissible.
From what I understand from this interview, Rosaria would not admit that comparison because heterosexual interest has a potentially wholesome expression in marriage between a man and woman. While the opposite sex interest must be “managed” and we are called to forsake lust and illicit sexual expression, the fundamental inclination is as God intended at creation.
From what I can tell, Rosaria is arguing therefore that the basic interest in the same sex (not lust, action, or same-sex marriage) is a condition for which the individual is morally culpable. She is saying that a person must repent of this inclination or risk God’s judgement in hell.
She is moving significantly beyond a mainstream understanding of James 1 here. She is saying that “evil desires” (CSB) of James 1:14 (“lust” in NASB) includes any form of homosexual attraction because she’s arguing backwards from the ultimate direction of where that attraction could lead. Her argument makes much less sense if you’re reading the NASB (where you read “lust” in James 1:14) and is less clear if you read “evil desires” in the CSB or NIV. She is helped by the ESV here where “desires” is the translation.
And this goes further. She ties the image of God to heterosexuality. Homosexual interest negates the image of God. She makes the statement at the beginning of the interview.
By arguing against any anthropological category of “gay”, Rosaria ends up circling around and condemning people who, without lusting (desiring to have another person in an illicit manner) or acting out, are guilty in her eyes simply because they are inclined toward / attracted to the same sex. And she says that anyone (naming Preston Sprinkle specifically while snidely criticizing his competence as a writer) is a heretic.
Does the Bible have a category for “homosexual” as Rosaria is working with? Does the Bible condemn people for their attractions? Or is it lust and illicit sex that are condemned? Can she use one English translation of James 1:14 to condemn people as hell-bound and heretical?
I’m not a biblical scholar. But neither is Rosaria. I think her argument is deeply flawed and her bravado is very off putting to me.
Rosaria isn’t the only authority on the subject that is calling out Sprinkle.
Beckett Cook, Christopher Yuan, Robert Gagnon, articulate some well formulated arguments as well.
In addition, when one examines the totality of Sprinkle’s work on numerous other hot-button cultural and societal issues, we quickly see that he is quite problematic.
@@westyso.cal.8842 That's helpful context. I'm interested to hear significant conversation over the "Side B" proposal and other hot-button cultural & societal issues. That said, I'm more familiar with Preston as an interviewer than a writer. I attended "Exiles in Babylon" (organized by Sprinkle) last year and appreciated much of what was shared. His design is to include diverse perspectives. I think many there found the talks focused on disability particularly helpful and challenging along those lines. One thing I noted on his podcast was how graciously and carefully he responded to Rosaria's strikingly bold claims connected to "pronoun hospitality". While the substance of Preston's positions on various issues is definitely open to critique and debate, I have to say I'm put off by what comes across to me as inflated rhetoric. I do respect, however, that if she believes he's a heretic and a wolf, that it's legitimate for her to say so.
Unfortunately, the church that hosted the Exiles conference (that you presumably attended) has seen several members (myself included) leave the fellowship.
The Exiles conferences had a lot to do with that decision.
Biblically orthodox conservative Christians don’t find Sprinkle’s theology to be sound.
By inviting the left leaning progressive teachers with their worldly secular liberal views into the church and giving them a platform and audience is a very dangerous move on the part of a church.
Godly, loving, shepherding Pastors don’t give an opportunity to the false prophets to spread false teaching and bad doctrine.
The “disability” speakers were probably fine, it’s the CRT topic the previous year that made everyone upset, I suspect.
All one has to do is spend a few hours doing a deep dive into many of Sprinkle’ guests and then draw your own conclusions.
I think we have been seriously impacted by the cultural jamming of homosexuality as normal, so it is hard to seperate it in our minds as something "sinful" even if we don't act on it. Try, as a thought experiment, substituting someone who struggles with the unnatural sexual attraction to children and see if you would think the same, that it isn't a problem so long as you don't act on it, or that it would be OK to identify as a pedophile who resists acting on it. Is that healthy? You may find yourseld experiencing the revulsion to such a notion that most people experienced to the notion of accepting homosexuality only 30 or 40 years ago before movies, music, and literature began jamming homosexuality. We, even in the church, have in many ways been brainwashed by our culture into a sympathetic view of something we once had a natural revulsion towards, and once would have easily understood was something to be resisted at the first internal temptaion.
@@westyso.cal.8842Preston has offered to speak to Rosaria regarding how she has misrepresented him (and continues to do so) but she continues to push a false narrative regarding his positions.
Thank you for your interview, ladies. This brought me the clarity I needed. I recently heard 2 sermons in our church that took the side B approach. I challenged both the elder who recommended David Bennets book "War of Loves" and I even interrupted a guest speaker and theologian at the end of his sermon challenging him with the question whether homosexualility was a legit identity or a sinful disposition. Later I wrote a letter to the eldership of my church about the issue explaining what I believe was the biblical position that you presented so well in your discussion. I was told not to talk to anyone in my church about it until I the leadership called me for a meeting where they reprimanded me.
Satan is attacking anything that God created for good. A little leaven will eventually work its way through the whole dough. It is as if I discovered a leak in the ship and they crew and captain asked me to ignore it.
Rosaria said it: Repentance is the key! My advice to side B holders: You cannot repent from an identity, you can only repent from sin, so you leave homosexual christians with no real hope of deliverance, and you endanger them into falling back fully into the livestyle they left.
I find it quite odd that they're specifically targeting the Queer people who are doing "what they're supposed to". These are people who are honest about themselves and they're celibate like they've been asked to do and still it's a problem.
It really seems like there's something else that people are concerned about. They're not acting like they want to help Queer people, they're acting like they want Queer people to just disappear; and they're specifically targeting Queer people in the church
Thank you for this. I've had discussions with my pastor about my daughter, who falsely believes she is bisexual. My pastor rightly tells me that I should love her. But he also affirms other gay pastors he knows, and told me he would attend his daughter's wedding if it was to another woman. I've really been struggling to decide what to do about my church. But Rosario's closing comment I think is a sign that it is time for me to leave this church, after being with my congregation for 17 years, (and three different pastors). It is very hard, as I have no biological family in the UK apart from my daughter, and consider the church my only support group, as well as my family.
@@cherylwilsenach3082
So you have your daughter, and you have a church that will support you and her, that church is your only social support, and yet you're still choosing lose all of that so that you can freely condemn and undermine your daughter?
That seems like a very poor course of action; it seems like you're trying to get everyone to cut you off.
@@cherylwilsenach3082 Sometimes you have to make tough decisions when it comes to the truth. Affirming this lifestyle is not compatible with the bible. I am sure God would provide you a fellowship with truth-loving people in case you decide to leave. As for me, I will stick with my fellowship for want of alternatives, and at least they are "only on side B" but I gonna watch it closely.
@@Grokford Church isn’t like a social club, it is to worship Jesus. If it doesn’t properly fit to Scripture, you don’t stay for the social perks.
Yes, I have been a happy Christian for over 60 years….!
Please pray for my church St. Albans Cathedral in Kenora Ont. Canada we will be voting the beginning of June to become a gender affirming church, God have mercy on us…
This was really good AND needful for the church.
What is your understanding of the roles of women in ministry in light of your YT channel reaching a co-Ed audience? Mike Winger has me questioning everything 😅 Thank you for this interview.
speaking in a video and preaching from a pulpit in a church are 2 COMPLETELY different things
@@lilpoohbear653 not if they are speaking with authority on a subject.
@@dedf15When Paul says that women are not to teach he is speaking of the church environment (church conduct, church officers). Alisa and other women can righteously witness/converse on a forum such as this, which goes out to a remote mixed audience. Biblically women witnessed for and accompanied Jesus. Women are not to be pastors in the pulpit doing Sunday services.
@@sovereigngodlisaloves9525 maybe I was too arcane with the point I was trying to make.
It sounds as if these ladies are trying to take a completely literal interpretation of Scripture and then apply that to the *possibility* that sin could exist in a statement of faith that is not an actual Bible verse, e.g.; the 'B' type Christians saying "fulfilling the desires that are already inside my mind and my heart would be sinful, therefore abstinence is the best policy."
This is a wonderful testament to these people taking up their crosses daily in order to present obedient, blameless, and pure lives to God. I respect the he'll out of someone who denies their own sexusl desires in order to serve God more perfectly. Most heterosexual people do far worse jobs of restraining our own lusts, because they are viewed as more societally acceptable or are easier to hide.
What these women here are saying is that even simply *having* the desire to sin inside you is a sin in itself. This is obviously theologically VERY problematic, as our own Lord in His flesh experienced all the temptations common to man. It follows then that either these ladies are right in their extreme fundamentalism and our Lord was a sinner, OR the temptation of sin itself is not, on its own, equal to the commission of that sin.
@@dedf15 Think about what Jesus said about adultery. Looking at a women to lust after her is to commit adultery. What is the difference between temptation and actual sin? I think what Rosaria was saying is that yielding to the temptation, i.e. lusting and not putting it out of your mind is sin. I know for me, I can look at a women and then look away and think of something else. If I think of an intimate act with that woman, yes it is sin. Whenever someone uses the words 'Fundamental Views', I know someone has been speaking against current world views.
My former church (PCA) got involved with Preston’s Center for Faith, Sexuality, and Gender. They sent ministry and church leaders to a monthly workshop series. The material was ambivalent. On the one hand it affirmed orthodox doctrine, but then it spoke of making church more hospitable for ‘sexual minorities’. I stopped attending after the third workshop, but the recordings were shared with me. That’s when I learned of Side B and began a long debate with the other leaders. One of the outreach leaders would eventually come out as a Side B lesbian and people congratulated her! I felt like I was in the twilight zone. Then she was hired to work as the assistant ministry director. I left not long after that. I’m now in a Reformed Baptist Church with very high borders around doctrine. Our Pastor preached through Romans last summer and very clearly made the same distinction that Rosaria made about concupiscence.
I am buying her book and also sharing this video with a few people I still keep in contact with that attend that church. I pray the Holy Spirit will grant them understanding and repentance.
I read Roasrias book and I couldn't put it down! It was such a great read.
God’s Word! The only answer!! Yes!!!
Great Video; we added to our collections Exgay Theology; this is very needed and we need to have more takes on Side B Conversations.
We just had her book come in and will be reviewing later this year on our podcast.
God bless you brother
Great video! Love Rosaria. Went to hear her in Holland Michigan Quite a few years back. Just a personal note on Allistair Begg, My wife and I just loved to listen to him and even went to his church once when in Cleveland. Because of his very foolish advice to the grandmother, we will no longer listen to him. If he can be so wrong about a rather common sense decision, we wonder what other error may be mixed with the good in his preaching! What bothers me the most is the lack of teach-ability and humility when confronted about the error. I pray that the dear man comes to his senses. Thank you for speaking the truth and repenting when wrong,dear sister!
I’ve made a much longer comment on this convo. But she’s saying that victory and repentance is only complete when the desire - not lust, but the sexual interest that precedes it - is repented of and erased.
Is that what the Bible says about same-sex sexuality? She asserts that calling someone gay is anthropology (it’s an identity statement). I would say that her assertions are philosophical rather than biblical.
She is making logical inferences and extending beyond Scripture. She is making a category of morally culpable sin that comes before lust. The basic attraction must be repented of.
The philosophy that she’s working out points to a question - is she basically calling for conversion therapy in some form? Is she taking on board all that’s been demonstrated about efforts to erase same-sex interest?
As in denying your own desires out of a loving obedience to God, sure. But as in actively practicing and engaging in a homosexual relationship, fantasies etc…. I don’t see how. One is a person who has a desire that he or she recognizes is wrong, and choosing not to act on it, the other usually tries to figure out a way to ignore scripture and justifying it, which says a lot about where they’re really at.
To anyone who wants to want not to give in and wants to want to obey, been there with addiction, hardest thing I have ever done in my life but when I could go no further on my own in obedience and was at the point of a mental breakdown, I called on the only one that could help as I refused to give in, and you know what, He showed up.
1 Corinthians 10:13
13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.
That scripture helped me tremendously, if what I said above applies to you, don’t give up and don’t give in. Choose wisely and don’t let your flesh control you, control it! That’s an act of repentance and obedience, continuing to do that over time as you read and study his word (not the same thing) you will learn more about the one you seek a relationship with and as you do so you’ll most likely want to align your heart and desires more desires with his.
Can you be an adulterous Christian?
Confession and Repentance.
That's for all of us!
Yup it’s hard. Everyone who has objected to our trans and gay children have been deleted. Can’t go that route.
Alisa: I greatly appreciate your work, yet I would strongly encourage you to speak with Preston Sprinkle regarding Rosaria's critique of his book. Rosaria has a wonderful testimony, but in light of Preston's recent response video, it would appear that Rosaria is not understanding Preston's position accurately. May the Lord continue to bless your ministry, Alisa. Yet my concern is that this rift between Rosaria and Preston, if left unhealed, will cause more harm than good.
Came here to say something very similar! I’m honestly concerned about Rosaria’s gross misrepresentation of Preston’s work. I knew she had critiques and had called him a heretic at some point, which was already a little mind blowing.
After listening to this interview, I’m more concerned. Rosaria cherry picked multiple sentences and took them out of context. She also misrepresented the Exiles conference.
I don’t know Preston personally, but from what I can tell he is a humble and intentional communicator and biblical scholar. I respect his humility and integrity. So my respect for Rosaria drops when I hear her call him a heretic while actively misrepresenting him. I question sitting under her teaching because of how she has handled her critiques of him. Not THAT she has critiques, but her behavior and actions in light of those critiques.
Alisa, I hope you give Preston an opportunity to clarify his actual views at some point.
I agreed about marriage is One man One woman and repenting is something that a follower of Jesus does, homosexually like any other sexual sin has no room in God’s kingdom. We can lovely build each other’s by telling one another about our new creation in Christ. But some probably will fight with this temptation more than onces.
Our personalities and process can look different.
The semi Pelagian argument was brought up, we can talk about determinism doctrine too?.
The two temptation explanation, minutes 19 was confusing if I undertook correct , two kind of temptations, the external, you can repent, the embryo one you can’t it is sin, James 1:14 don’t mentioned this two as far as I can see…open to explanation
The bible said every temptation comes from within us…
About Preston, Very unkind remarkers about ihis paragraph, how bad his skills are, I called that proudness, it was no need to mentioned that, writing wasn’t the topic.😢
I’ll be checking the other side, specially Preston to make an informed reviewed
Jeez. Not very loving religion you have.
@@Quint-ib4nf is that address to me?
You are wrong one man can have one wife or many wives, there are plenty of examples of this throughout the Bible. The doctrine of monogamy is not even in the Bible, it's just some later Christendom false doctrine.
Christianity without repentance is not Christianity.
Spot on! I don't get why this is so hard for some people to understand. Let's never forget the part..Go and sin no more.
We all see in part and have yet to see clearly.....hence " eyes to see & ears to hear". We all come into the earth believing our distirted form be it reninforced from the mouth of religion or even from opinions of others and don't forget the devil whispers.... And then its like the light comes on and revealation comes in and then we realize that we were made in the image of our Creator,likeness too ! He knew our spirit man before we were in Momma's womb....ponder(selah) all of that for the days ahead......perfect form arises, crap falls off and the journey is real and marvelous ❤🎉❤
45:23 Well expressed! Thank you! I've been a listener of Alistair Begg for over 25 years. His perspective on the grandma and trans wedding issue doesn't alter my support for his ministry. I value the distinction Rosaria provided between attending a birthday party versus a wedding. I wonder if, upon reflection, Begg might align more closely with her perspective?
Nevertheless, I appreciate Begg emphasizing that each believer must work this out before the Lord with "fear and trembling." And, if after doing so there are two differing views - then we must remember, “…It is before his own master that (a servant) stands or falls…” It's comforting to remember God is faithful in leading His sheep along the path of righteousness, even as we are so prone to wander.
We need more open conversations about this topic as it is infesting the Church almost as much as it is our culture.
What a strange video! So those who leave a sinful lifestyle, but who are still tempted by the sin they left are not saved? That would include ALL of us to some degree!
we all struggle with temptation till the moment we take our last breath...anyone who says any different is a liar. However, I will say that as we grow in Christ, we renew our mind with reading, and knowing the Word of God, the Bible and prayer...we do get stronger against those temptations! I have been born again for over 38 years and things that tempted me when I was 25, no longer really effect me...however, if we do not watch we think, what we look at and what we involve oursleves with...we can fall back into old habits
@Rileyed Lust and Temptation are not the same thing. One is a sin, the other is not. One we overcome, the other we don't. Sometimes God takes it away. Sometimes he doesn't.
Repent and Believe.
@@PJDMC5306 flesh lusts to envy…….Spirit lives by faith. When we walk in the spirit we do not Lust. When we Lust we are in the flesh. The way of escape. Romans 8. The Law of liberty from SIN. I’m not talking about desiring food or sex. We always have a flesh. To envy tech means to be unsatisfied. Discontent. That’s the main issue we have. But then there is the promise of self control and that we would take dominion and not be enslaved anymore to the desires of food and sex etc.
Believe in what? Catholicism or Jesus?@@Sno2Getti
So too good: "I would say this if if your church doesn't know what time it is go find one that does....!
Loved your last question! She didn't answer it, unfortunately. It is a VERY important question! Any leads to a better discussion/treatment of this?
This is an important topic that’s not being addressed. I’m ministering on the streets in the SF Bay Area where homosexuality is commonly accepted and need to have clarity when dealing with this issue. Up until this podcast I was under the impression that side B Christianity was the only option for homosexuals but I was defining it differently than the way it is presented here.
I thought Side B meant one who accepted the fact that homosexuality is sin but needed to not give in to the temptation. Only giving themselves over to a life of celibacy and offering up their thought life as a daily sacrifice could they be actively walking in the Spirit as a disciple of our Lord. I never considered that if certain gay believers held to this, agreeing that it is sin, but still admitted to have the temptations but continually worked towards repentance that they wouldn’t be in good standing.
I know as a single man I’ll struggle with my thought life up until I find a wife. Those who have homosexual temptations will never find such a relief outside of complete removal of the temptation. If these temptations never leave are they still saved?
Firstly, nobody but God has the final say on if they are saved. Secondly, there is a lot of gray. Did Jesus condemn Mary or comfort her? Sometimes I don't think we need to be so legalistic. Our identity as Christians is based solely on the grace through Christ Jesus. Let us all be gracious and ask for strength to speak God's truth with love and gentleness and a spirit of discernment. ANY TEMPTATION IS NOT A SIN...it is acting on it that is sinful.
This misses the mark, big time. I appreciate your opinion.
@@juliestewartvideos Temptation isn't sin unless it's entertained in the heart. This is clear when Jesus taught that to lust after a woman is to commit adultery. If a man lust after another man he not only commits fornication in the heart but is guilty of homosexuality.
I fully believe Jesus' blood covers all sin but to continue in willful sin after the fact is to use grace as a license.
I think doing a word search on it and anything related to it answers the question. Homosexuality is one of the signs of the height of depravity that a society succumbs to the evil one However our secret sins if continued and worst still self deception of self righteousness means we are no better or even worst off… I chose the word society deliberately and we as individual sinners are no better. Concerning temptations, no, the model prayer does include lead us not to temptations.
@@Logic807 No question that it's sin. I'm trying to understand their problem with the Side B philosophy. They say it's because it doesn't call being a Homosexual a sin. Which I believe is a possible misrepresentation because those I've heard who call themselves Side B say that it is. The one thing I think they make a case for is that Side B adherents still consider themselves naturally homosexual though they've committed to not act on it.
Woah. Rosaria: “There is no way you can be made in the image of God as a lesbian”. That is a striking statement!
If the image of God is inherent to what it means to be human, that remark sure seems to dehumanizes gay and lesbian people. And it’s important to note that in context she argues this goes to the level of attraction.
She is saying (based in part on Exodus 20:17 which prohibits coveting and James 1:14 -15 which refers to “evil desires” as what she refers to as the “embryonic form of sin”) that sexual attraction to the same gender is sinful and (per her comments on Genesis 1:27) negates the image of God.
On the one hand, I hear her saying what most Christians would affirm: sexuality has been damaged, corrupted, made sinful by the rebellion in Eden. Specifically, same-sex sexual desires and acts would not exist apart from the fall. But it’s much more significant to say that a desire can put a person outside the category of being made in God’s image.
If she means that none of us as sinners are made in the image of God, that’s a different conversation. I’d still push back there. But she singled out lesbians (and gay men by implication). And that’s very alarming to me. And she’s saying this is true without requiring any same-sex sexual activity. Folks are sinful because of the gender they find attractive sexually.
She sets up two categories of temptation - internal & external. External temptations do not make us guilty as sinners. But internal desires that connect in any way to sinful action are the “evil desires” of James 1:14.
I’m sure she’s thought about this, but Hebrews 4:14 says Jesus was tempted in every way just as we are. Rosaria asserts here that (and I guess she’s thinking of Jesus’ temptation in the wilderness by Satan) Jesus was only tempted “externally” and never “internally”. I’d agree if we mean by that that Jesus never had an evil desire like James 1:14 talks about.
But as a heterosexual male, my basic sexual orientation whereby women are attractive to me must be something different from a “bad desire” toward women. Rosaria is saying that, at the level of interest, homosexual desire is sin.
For me, that means that a celibate person who is same-sex attracted is sinning just by existing. Apart from becoming sexually interested in the opposite gender, that individual is sinning. She’s not talking about lust. And she begins by saying that such sin is not consistent with being made in the image of God.
A question: since heterosexual sexual activity is only wholesome within marriage, is all interest in the opposite gender apart from one’s spouse sinful since it ultimately points in the direction of sin if taken to its full conclusion? Note here I’m not talking about lust since that’s not the category Rosaria is working with either. I’m asking about heterosexual attraction. Would this make dating wrong since it would involve interest without a commitment to marriage? From what I can tell, encouraging any interest in someone of the opposite sex outside a commitment to marriage would be sinful within Rosaria’s rubric. Or would she say that opposite sex interest is wholesome even when it’s experienced in connection to those who are not (or will not become) one’s spouse and that all manifestations of homosexuality- including interest in the same gender - is categorically different and wholly sinful. And, back to her first point, is outside the image of God.
I think she may be saying that. As I said at the beginning: woah.
Very good break down here..
I listening her argument, specially the 16 minute to 25 or so, two temptations… more than once to see if I understood wrong.
But it it not biblical, every temptation comes from inside.
What you are saying about the image of God it is a good point ..
I hear hard, core Augustine views
We are all made in the image of God and have been corrupted by sin, the flesh and the devil. Our sin nature is a result of the fall, not our being made in God’s image, or else that means God is sinful. Your response is illogical.
@@roxanasalazar1234 she makes an intriguing point in reference to Jesus’ temptation (in the wilderness, Luke 4:1-13 for one account). Clearly the source of that temptation was external to Jesus - the agent is Satan. So, granted, Satan tempts. Peter warns about this in 1 Peter 5:8 & 9, calling on his readers to resist.
On the other hand, as Rosaria points out, Scripture talks about temptation “internally” in James 1:14 where the sinner is enticed by “his own evil desire”.
Building on these ideas, she develops a logic … if a desire points in the direction of sinful action, it is itself sinful. She also assumes that the essence of a gay identify is the desire for same sex sexual expression. That’s an interesting idea but I’m not sure it holds - for example, and this is a grotesque hypothetical - but would a castrated gay man (and I know she’d reject that identity category outright) cease to be gay simply because he would no longer have a desire for sex?
For Rosaria, there’s no room for the concept of “broken” desires. No space for what I’d see as a weakness in the direction of a particular lust. She wants to say people are morally culpable for all of their desires. They are either righteous because, if acted on, they lead to good action or they are sinful because, if acted on, they lead to sin. And since we are morally culpable, we can repent of all sinful desires. It is therefore loving, as far as I can tell, to call folks who are same-sex attracted to repent of that attraction.
For me, I’d have a different anthropology: (1) we are all sexually broken because of the fall, (2) in our brokenness, we are inclined towards different lusts / evil desires, and (3) we are called to resist evil desires - which are desires to act out sinfully. We cannot repent of being broken. Instead, we pursue obedience to Jesus in dependence on God’s empowering grace. And God will sanctify us. And when we see Jesus, we will be like Him.
Rosaria’s framework seems to put a special weight of sexual brokenness on people who are same sex attracted. Additionally, she’s very concerned about language - labels like “gay” or the use of preferred pronouns - concern her a lot. Interestingly, her interest in language also comes through as she speaks about the importance of calling Preston Sprinkle a heretic and a wolf. But I think her anthropology is suspect since she leaves no room for sexual brokenness over which we have no control.
@@fishtail1129 I actually agree with you. But we do not say that, because of the fall, the image of God is erased. And Rosaria says there is no way for a lesbian to be made in God’s image. If I follow what she’s saying correctly, it’s possible to think about a heterosexual sinner differently because at the root heterosexual desires don’t necessarily point to a sinful act.
As far as I can tell, Rosaria is arguing that there is no category for a person to be sexually broken in terms of being same-sex attracted and yet live a righteous life. She saying that same-sex attraction - not lust (ie. the desire to have a specific person sexually or the desire to use another person sexually [e.g. by consuming pornography]) - is a morally culpable desire from which a person must repent.
That is, in order to stop sinning, the person who is attracted to the same sex must stop having that attraction. Celibacy is not enough and not harbouring lust (as described above) is insufficient. And she asserts that those who would counsel a same sex attracted person that it is sufficient to flee lust and forsake acts of sexual sin is a heretic and a wolf (who is destroying the sheep).
@@trevorseath7267
Very high bar on her statement for anyone if the desire is sin in itself
“But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.”
Is temptation a sin? Because of the desire?
15 Then the evil desire, when it has conceived, gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is fully matured, brings forth death.
James 1:15 | AMP
I always viewed that conceived, no fight, you keep entertaining or fighting your desires…
Can a Christian have a temptation ( same) for the rest of their lives? Or ones you have the Holy Spirit and you are new in Him, you conquer all the desires so it is always a different battle?
No one that proclaim to be save can have same sex attraction and fight?
Or there is this sin and all sin a symptoms of a deeper root like envy?
God has gotten me out of a same sex relationship and here in Kenya it's so rampart to find people who identify as Gay and Christian. Which I find an Oxymoron honestly.
So yeah there is a lot of garbage coming out of the west on this whole topic of Homosexuality.. Thanks be to God who has also allowed such truthful voices like yours Rosaria. I got your book 'Gospel Comes With a Housekey' for my birthday last year btw..
Thanks Alisa.
Thank you Alisa for bringing up what Begg said about our love for them catching them off guard. That has bothered me too and I sadly hear many professing Christians justify that point. No, we don’t see his point here.
Begg literally implied a cultural definition of love, not a biblical one.
Rosaria is great. I’ve seen her on Relatable a few times.
Thank you for the discussion!
I had never heard of the distinction between internal and external temptation before, particularly that internal temptation is sin that needs to be repented of. If this is the case, Jesus could not have experienced internal temptation. How does this fit with the statement in Hebrews that Jesus experienced temp station is all ways as we have?
Rosaria made the stamens that in James we get the pedigree of sin, but after looking at that text it appears to me that it is a pedigree of death and draws a distinction between temptation, desire and sin.
The use of the term heretic makes me uncomfortable. If I understand it’s historical usage (which I certainly may not be lol) heritic was a term applied to significantly divergent beliefs determined by ecumenical council.
I have been a long term subscriber of both you and Preston and have benefited greatly from both your work. Is there a possibility of a one on one conversation between the two of you? I for one would find that to be helpful.
Thanks!
The distinction doesn't make any sense to me.
All temptations are internal, even if there sources aren't.
It's a bit like distinguishing between hunger that's spontaneous or hunger that is instigated by food.
I don't see the point.
sin requires choice, involuntary feelings can't be chosen
Thank you so much for this podcast!!!
The question should be "If you are a Christian should you agree with the Word of God that Jesus used as the sword of the Spirit against Satan (Matt. 4) and conclude it's OK with God that you are living a gay lifestyle?"