I never buy new books but I pre-ordered this one as soon as a heard about it. I work in the fitness world and New Age is deep seeded there, but so is New Thought. Melissa and Alisa have both helped me see and avoid those pitfalls and have the language to talk to my Christian clients about it and give them a sound alternative. Thank you both for the work you're doing!!
I was a student at Oral Roberts University in the 90s, and our chaplain at the time was mentored by Robert Shuler. I'm unraveling more and more how these unbiblical ideas have been disguised inside my theology for most of my life, and this was one more light bulb. Thank you.
I'm convinced that every denomination and tradition has been influenced by the doctrines (plural) of demons. I base my opinion on the Barna reports research. That being said, I am convinced that all have some true believers as well. That's why online topics like this are helpful to a lot of people.
Just wait until you see all these players are also Freemasons. 😅 May the Holy Ghost continue to give you discernment brother and may you continue to be sensitive to the discernment, in the name of Jesus Christ, amen. 🙏🏼
@@curiousjojo4life You are right it is discernment, but along with that the Holy Spirit is directed me to ask the right questions. The Internet has helped me to get answers through podcast, audiobooks, and UA-cam channels. To your point about masons, I would not doubt it. I can’t speak for other areas, but in my area in DFW I checked out a lot of older, black churches and 60 to 70% of them if not more had Masonic symbols on the cornerstone.
@BillTony2 Amen, brother! ORU is full of them too. I am glad you are researching and that you have the yes to see, the ears to hear and are of sound mind. I am so encouraged when I find more brothers and sisters out there with discernment and wisdom from The Lord and spending time in His Word.
Thank you both for your ministry! I started following you to gain information about New Age and New Thought. I have a friend who’s lost in this ideology and I’m trying to learn how to talk to her and defend the Christian faith. Just bought Melissa’s book. Thank you!
Thank you for mentioning dr. Caroline Leaf. I always felt a bit uneasy about her teachings. There is a doctor in South Africa who also teaches her way of thinking. We listened to her stuff and then at some point we started feeling uneasy about it all and stopped following her. Now you confirmed that her teachings are dangerous. This podcast was an eye opener.
Genesis 1:3 [3] And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. This verse and many others in Genesis, specifically, came to mind while listening to this conversation. God has been the only one who can use his words and things come into existence. He is the great “IAM”. We are just clay in his hands. Praise God for his love and compassion on us foolish sinners!
Yes I came in through the Apostolic movement in 2005 with that thinking Pastor were preaching positive thoughts, positive people positive place . And never say anything negative. And thinking that we can be like Christ as a deity. Yes new though it around for a while.
I told myself for years that I would never finish my college education. But despite my “negative thoughts” I kept going back to school, and eventually finished. Our “self talk” is not unimportant but obedience always takes precedence.
This has come right on time. Jesus saved me out of 37 years of new age and metaphysical practices in 2023. I have been challenged in reconciling my supernatural experience with Christ Jesus apart from the supernatural spirituality I practiced. On the surface they look alike which makes it tempting to compare and justify my past experiences as “Christian”. I know they are not the same but the temptation is very real.
I live in South Africa where the traditional churches had the Reformed theology ,unfortunately not underscribing the baptism of believers,but of infants. When a person became born again,the baptist churches were an option ,but America exported the Word of Faith Movement,Prosperity Gospel and New Thought Churches to South Africa from the early 80's and it completely dominates the church scene at the moment. Looking back I remember all the inspirational cards and books of Norman Vincent Peale and the lure of the megachurches proclaiming that they have Revival. We even had a young doctor affirming Caroline Leaf's book on healing. When a friend of mine contracted cancer, she was reprimanded that the cause was unforgiveness . The focus is put on human effort and this life and not on Jesus,the glorious Son of God who gave His life as a ransom for us. I really appreciate both of you ,your clarity and the discernment that both of you share with your audience concerning the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Really enjoyed this interview. What strikes me is the "reason" behind many of these New Thought teachers' false teachings--hurt from the other side, basically. I have never been a part of progressive Christianity or new thought and while it is very helpful to understand what's out there I think it's also important to understand the reaction that has come from the legalism and lack of love in churches where the theology might be technically "right." We just came out of a church like that… "High theology" and "Sola Scriptura" but still run by the flesh and no love. It's very possible. (They were also never-Trumpers!) The Pharisees of Jesus' time were just like that. Just wanted to bring out the other side because while all of this needs to be pointed out so we can be equipped to deal with our culture, we need to remember that the remedy is the true Christ of true Christianity and there aren't many churches that represent that, sadly. Again, very engaging interview! 🙏🏻
I love these 2 women so much it is hard to put into words … 😭♥️ and I mean that in the most Christian, Biblical, respectful and sincere way. Thank you for your ministries my sisters in Christ 😭♥️😔
Thank you for all this Melissa and Alisa!! With the “I am” affirmations being so popular, is “ I am the Church” considered one of those that is wrongly used?
No, because that isn't an "affirmation." Remember the purpose of affirmations: to *affirm* an inner truth, (doesn't matter if it's *actually* true) to consciously align thought and belief with inner divine truth, and manifesting positive outcomes through the "creative power" of your mind. A truth statement and an affirmation are not the same thing. Affirmations are designed in "I AM" statements to be, in essence, divine statements of creation.
@@MelissaDoughertythank you for differentiating this! I am looking forward to your book! ( not an “I am” affirmation but true excitement for the book) amazing 😉😉
@@MelissaDoughertyBut "I am the Church" is technically an affirmation. You are against humans having creative power through their thoughts and words because you think that people are blaspheming God by wanting to be like Him. If God did not want us to be like Him, why create Adam and Eve in His image and likeness in the first place? His image and likeness already means "LIKE HIM". Genesis 3:22 goes against your affirmation and assertion that the serpent lied about them becoming like God. The Lord agreed with the serpent in that part; they did become like Him. Plus, if you bothered to look throughout the Bible, the divine intent has always been for humanity to be like Him. Even in following Jesus, it's for us to be like Him. Humans CAN create with their thoughts and words. If words were as powerless as you say they are, witches, wizards, sorcerers and warlocks would not need to speak for their magick to work. You can't really place a curse if you do not actually curse. You also cannot place a blessing if you do not actually bless. And what if God limits the power of humans to preserve order? The problem is that many Christians have not paid the price for their words to actually be able to change reality; within divine limits, but still able to change reality. Same with thoughts; they do attract both good and bad. Within certain limits, but they attract angels, God and demons, and also problems and solutions. Is manifestation not real? Is the building you live in, not a product of manifestation and visualization? When people become evil, are they also not manifestations of sins? Yes, personifications of sin and evil just like fallen angels and demons. So, manifestation is not real? You do actually become what you think about, don't you? See how you don't know what you're saying?
I’m excited too! You two are my favorite gals to listen to. I preordered Happy Lies on Audible and can’t wait to listen. I’m definitely going to Honolulu this year for the conference. Thank you for your ministry.
Such a good interview. I have so many thoughts right now. I know so many friends and family that embrace all of these "New Thought" ideas and am afraid my daughter is in it as well. Thank you for this clarity on all of the muddiness.
This video helped me SO much!!! I thought I fell into the progressive/ charismatic church but I think it was truly a new thought church!! They were sprinkled with scripture & truth and then there would be these crazy one liners where the pastor would say things like a Jesus didn’t have his whole Devine nature and if you speak it and believe it God wants it to happen! I am SO thankful that through my husband disability we both were able to get out of that whole movement and into a gospel believing church!!
Can you respond to the movement in churches to have deliverance ministries or deliverance sessions where people are guided to renounce sins and renounce generational curses and renounce words of curse etc.
It would be interesting to hear how this ties up with contemplative spirituality & its proponents such as John Mark Comer, who is also associated with Richar Rohr.
Yes, thank you for requesting this! My (ex)church recently put out an "Advent Refresh Guide" that was a 3 week guide into Lectio Divina (basically contemplative prayer). My research tells me this is Catholic/Eastern mysticism and encourages one to "empty the mind to experience God". (Ray Yungen has a couple great books exposing this).
20:46 isn't the main thing that's missing from both new thought and new age, repentance?? Because if it is then it is important for us to recognize the main theme of the gospel is repentance and a changed heart ❤️
First of all: thank you for this video! I live in Germany and this is an important topic for us too. However, one thing always irritates me when I watch videos about Progressive Christianity, NAR and now New Thought. There is never/rarely any mention of sin that moves people to join these teachings. A loved one close to me may have had hurts in the past, but what is driving him away from the Christian faith into this New Thought teachings is an attempt to gloss over/justify marriage damaging behavior. John 3:19 "Now in this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." But maybe it's in the book. I'm looking forward to hearing and/or reading "Happy Lies" soon. And I would be even happier if it were then translated into German. Thank you for your work! You both are, among other things, the reason and help that I was able to recognize NAR teachings that I was fed. I am grateful to God for letting me discover you and Greg Koukl, Mike Winger, Frank Turek, Wes Huff.... God is good!!! Greetings from Germany! ❤❤
People develop some bizarre philosophies. I am in agony because people around me make me feel like professional and financial failure in America. I am 54 yeast years old and destitute. My parents Bonnie and Terry Tipton of Las Vgas as well as other relatives have made me feel like a terrible failure in life. It is agony.
So often, if God is incorporated into contemporary spiritual beliefs, He is defined more by His perceived utility to the individual than by His supreme sovereignty. For those who have experienced what they diagnose as “religious trauma” and still wish to remain within or adjacent to Christian beliefs, therapeutic deism is the eventual “solution.” Consequently, they come to relate to God with a primary focus on what He does for them rather than who He is. “Worship” becomes driven by emotional experience, or it falls by the wayside entirely. God becomes fashioned in the image of “human goodness” (i.e., “love”), and any fundamentalist assertions to the contrary are met with disgust and derision. “Where is God in the midst of my troubles?” “Where are you positioned in relation to God’s holiness?”
Jesus said any man that come after me let him first deny himself , pick up his cross and follow me. We must die to ourselves and let Christ live through us
Twist number 200,000. New Thought sounds a lot like Mormonism, Positive Thinking, You can be your own God, Garden of Eden lies, straight from Satan. Chewed up, regurgitated and given a new name... There is nothing new under the Sun. Thank you for talking about the "New" that really isn't..... Hath God really said..... Satan always has some new knowledge that will make people "elite", in their own eyes....❤🙏 Thanks for what you are doing.
I know of a false teacher who is teaching these very things but couched in different terms. Instead of positive and negative energies, it's positive and negative emotions, finding your true self, which is pure and sinless, i.e. "divine," although he doesn't use that term. Looking forward to reading your book! Gid bless!
New Thought is the reason why the traditional Gospel message is so despised. I once read that the Wizard of Oz was a New Thought rewrite of Pilgrim's Progress.
39:50 I feel the same way about Catholicism too, and Mormonism, they all wanna find their answers from within their sector, but they don't wanna go out and actually seek truth. Maybe it's because they're afraid of what they might find? Because I know when I was in the new age, I was afraid of seeking the conservative Christian argument, and just going into the Bible and reading. I was afraid of it, but I got to the point where I had to know the truth and there were certain things I just couldn't believe that were in there. deep down I had already known Jesus I think from childhood and I was going to believe in the God of the Bible and I was gonna believe whatever was in there. I just needed to read it or hear it. I needed the scripture to divide my soul and spirit and intentions of my heart. I just couldn't believe that Tarot was wrong and divination could be wrong because I enjoyed it and I loved it. So I wonder if there's that same fear when people love the community either in or be indulgences or behaviors that are engaging in and they don't necessarily want to know the truth so they don't try very hard to search it out they would rather it should not be true and go on living that way.
I've been seeing Melissa's videos pop up in my sidebar suggestions but wasn't sure whether to watch or not. Thanks for helping with the decision! (I will definitely watch her videos now.)
I just wanted to make you aware that Dr. Caroline Leaf's site looks scientific because she is a neuroscientist. And is one of the first in her field to prove that you can be healed from brain injuries. And while she probably prays for people also, I'm talking getting healed through medical processes and therapy.
Caroline Leaf is a speech language pathologist who calls herself a neuroscientist. She was called out by a doctor a few years ago over her credentials.
The problem with the Angel of the church of Ephesus is that although he will identify false prophets and reject them. He will not see the coming of the King of Glory and he will also reject him. And there is a great price to pay for it. He will lose his candlestick.
I first listened to Melissa when her and Doreen Virtue were doing podcasts calling out Christian leaders and churches which I was quite surprised by since they were both new converts. Clearly she's still on that path. Although I'd agree with criticism of the Word of Faith movement (in particular) since l was wounded by churches applying that teaching, l would certainly not lump in someone like Dr Caroline Leaf, a neuro-scientist, who offers a means by which people can get free from unhealthy (and sometimes debilitating) thought patterns. The program Dr Leaf sets out is similiar in nature to the 12 Steps/self-help programs which Melissa also poo-pooed in this podcast. If she's had the good fortune not to have had to deal with addiction, trauma, depression, etc then perhaps she should stay out of that lane and leave that ministry to those that have. OR at least list every other doctor or motivator that has stated that choosing positive thoughts over negative will benefit a person's overall well-being.
New Thought has its roots deep in many Christians' minds. I remember hearing a lot about "positive thinking" in and out of church all of my life. I knew a lot of Christians, including my own father, who read and heard "ministers" like Robert Schuller, Norman Vincent Peale and others. I always had reservations about what these people taught, but it took a long time for me to discover what was wrong with it.
I remember this too. Somewhere in the late 80’s. I didn’t recall specific names because I was a child, but I have memories of hearing things from pastors (including the church I attended) like “whatever you fear is more likely to happen in your life” so think positively to manifest good things is essentially what they’d say. I think it was likely a part of this new thought garbage too. Of course there is nothing new under the sun. Satan is always repackaging his lies to deceive the next generation.
Great conversation. Definitely getting the book. However, scripturally, I would argue if it is not of the word of God, it is simply falsely prophetic. I don’t think we need all of these acronyms. Mathew 7:15, Dueteronomy 18-20-22, etc
New age is the deification of humans. We become gods. New thought is the divinization of humans. It says that we have a divine nature and that we can discover that divine nature. Of course neither is true. We are men and women with a human nature and we must be satisfied with that. We must not believe the temptation of the serpent and become like God. Or agree with Satan who said I will become like the most high. We are created beings and must not usurp the prerogative of the Creator.
It's astounding to me how so many Christians don't even read their Bibles well. Was it not God's intent that we become like Him? Why did He want to make beings according to His image and likeness then? Why does 2 Peter 1:4 say that we are to be partakers of the divine nature? Why does 2 Corinthians 3:18 say that by beholding Him, we are transformed from glory to glory to be like Him? Didn't God acknowledge in Genesis 3:22 that Adam and Eve did become like Him after eating from the tree? That was what the serpent said, right? God agreed with the serpent. The lie was that they would not die; but they did become like Him. All of God's work in us is for us to become like Him. Haven't you read throughout the whole Bible, how many times the Lord has expressed that He wants humanity to be like Him? Even in following Jesus's steps is for us to be like Him. Please pay attention to your own Bibles. So many of you claim to know it and read it so much, but look how easily it is demonstrated that you don't.
@Marvin-987 The problem with your argument is a misunderstanding of the nature of Yeshua. He doesn't have two natures. He has one nature. The Word made flesh. A divine nature. And His humanity is a function of His divinity. And our humanity is the image of God in which we are created. It is a function of divinity although we are not divine. We are creature. So by going from glory to glory and being recreated in the image of God doesn't make us like God. It renews our humanity. As far as the serpent seed thing I agree with you. The serpent said a partial truth. We become like God knowing good and evil. But we retain the nature of men and women. Which is that we are the dust of the earth made flesh. Whereas the nature of God is the Godhead, the divine substance. Our nature is corruptable. Therefore knowing good and evil is a curse and leads to death. Whereas the divine nature is able to know good and evil and judge righteous judgement. In nature we are not like God in any way. We are creature. He is creator. We are able to bear the image of God which is our humanity. And we must be satisfied with what we are. Men and women. No mean thing. The Lord bless you!!
@michaeldunigan1067 Yes. It was wrong when you didn't take the time to read and to ponder. It's typical of many Christians. And then they come and call everything heresy and blasphemy when they don't even know enough. Don't worry. I'll delete my long comment. There's a reason Jesus said not to cast pearls to swine. It's why God keeps His mysteries hidden for those who are interested and paid the price for them.
i like to say " I am a sinner saved by Grace alone thru Faith alone Christ Alone not by works Romans 5 Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we[a] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
I don't understand why you would say that love is not the highest Christian virtue. These three abide, faith, hope and love. And the greatest of these is love. And the fruit of the spirit is love. And the great commandment as well as the second is love. I can only conclude that you have not followed obedience unto love.
I couldn't believe my ears so I went back & using subtitles (though not always accurate enough) listened to what she said disagreeing with being anti- racism & conflating that with being "woke". Great excuse for cancelling out ones own wrongdoings by referring to an evil on the other side (in this case, a very spurious assertion). I was interested in the topic of the video, but by this point, I had realised I couldn't trust any assertions on this channel .
So many of you keep refering to the passage in Genesis where supposedly the serpent lied about Adam and Eve becoming like God. If you had bothered to pay attention to details, you would have noticed that Satan did not lie about that because God acknowledged in Genesis 3:22, that the couple DID BECOME LIKE HIM. How much longer are you all going to keep spreading the same error? And then Melissa, all proud promoting her book as if she's being so accurate. Did God really intend for His image bearers to be so utterly powerless and worthless? A being supposed to be like God is actually powerless? Are you actually worthless? When He created you with love? That act alone already implies you have value. You think you're right when upon deep examination, your way of thinking has so many holes. And with all that, you're still PROUD to present your book and promote it instead of checking for any mistakes and correcting them.
@LeticiaMartinez-b8o scripture about what specifically? If you mean the verse about the lie, here it is: Genesis 3:4-5: "Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” Compare with Genesis 3:22: "Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”. Notice how God agreed with the serpent, that Adam and Eve did become like Him. The lie was that they would not die. Because they died almost 1000 years later. But God eventually would have allowed Adam and Eve to know good and evil, because even now, Hebrews 5:14 says that a sign of maturity is that people know how to discern between good and evil. And God wants humanity to grow. Maturity is growth. You need to know good and evil if you are to discern between the two. Melissa doesn't know what she's talking about. She has been repeating the same errors for years and still has not corrected herself. Pharisaical Christians love to criticize others, but they don't look at themselves. They think they know so much, but somebody comes to challenge them and they ignore the challenge; and so, they don't grow.
In his exchange with Eve, the serpent first questioned God's Word ("Did God really say?") then he lied and said, "You will not surely die." Then he deceived with a lie that contained some truth: "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” Genesis 3:22 tells us that in a certain sense, they did become like God. But not in the way the serpent was leading her to believe. The whole thing was a master deception, which is why it's referred to as the serpent's lie. I expound on this more in this video: ua-cam.com/video/hmp7VCvn8Lw/v-deo.html
@alisachilders It was just as the serpent said. Pay attention to the words of the verse. The serpent said "become like God" in the sense of knowing good and evil. Not in the sense of being fully like God. The Lord agreed with Satan in that sense. It is not stated in the passage that the serpent meant something else. Plus, wisdom includes knowing good and evil. Traditional theology teaches that humanity is nothing, worthless and powerless. It's not what God intended. Humanity is not worthless; that did not change even after Jesus's sacrifice. Humanity since its beginning has always been valuable to God by the fact that He created with love; love is value. Humanity is not utterly powerless because God wanted to create beings like Him. It has already been revealed by God that one of the meanings of His likeness is that we can create with our words. It's just that God has limited that power to preserve order and because humanity does not look like God; so, creation does not obey it. But as the image and likeness are restored in humans, creation will obey the sons of God. Still within divine limits, but words can create. Christians have already had experiences where they were approved by God to create something. One person created a squirrel; another created a spiritual guardian for a portal. Other people have created demons or evil spirits without knowing. To say that the image and likeness of God is powerless is to say that God is powerless. The truth is that children of God don't know who they are. They prefer to believe the lie that they are nothing than to believe that God created them with a potential greater than they know. Here comes God to reveal what a son of God is capable of, but they call it blasphemy and heresy. Do you really want to know who you are, your true potential or not?
@@alisachildersThe video that you linked also has flaws in its message. You say that even if the words are true, it does not mean that there's no deception. Yes, in the sense that the nature of the speaker can be contradictory or evil, or true intent can be malicious. But you exaggerate as well by claiming that literally everything the devil says is a lie. Satan cannot literally lie all the time; he lies when it's convenient for him to lie. If he did lie all the time, his kingdom would not be able to achieve anything. He has servants who go on missions. Imagine if the information on the targets were literally all lies. There would be no trust and reliability among its members to cooperate with anything because they cannot trust the information. The wiser thing to do is to examine the messages in depth and draw conclusions. Because if you go by what you said, you would be in error as well. For if God really did mean to have something greater for us as sons of God and images of God, you would reject it because it does not go with what you've been taught. We as sons of God, don't know who we are and our full potential. But if God comes to reveal to us who we are and what we can do, the GREATER POSSIBILITIES He has for us, you would reject them, call them blasphemy and heresy and settle for being nothing but dirt? God comes and gives us greater revelations about His designs and you settle for the more basic stuff because you have been taught that anything more or greater is of the devil. Who is missing out? Who would want you to be nothing? God or the devil? With all the unknown mysteries that God has placed in us, all the treasures He's placed in us to be manifested over time, do you really think that God wants us to believe that we are worthless nobodies? Even worms teach humanity the importance of perseverance, but humans don't have eyes to see that. Are worms really worthless when God hid wisdom in them? Are humans really worthless when even angels want to know the mysteries that God deposited inside us to manifest? (1 Peter 1:12). God WILL break boxes. His revelation will eventually break your box. He is not limited by context as many Christians want to chain Him with. If you had read the Bible well, you would have seen many instances in which He did not follow context. Study the messianic prophecies.
@@debraisola9037 why? And the Bible is clear that Jesus IS the Way, the TRUTH and the Life. No one comes unto the Father accept by Him. And no Christian should idolize/worship ANY one or thing. Only Christ. And Him crucified for our sins.
I never buy new books but I pre-ordered this one as soon as a heard about it. I work in the fitness world and New Age is deep seeded there, but so is New Thought. Melissa and Alisa have both helped me see and avoid those pitfalls and have the language to talk to my Christian clients about it and give them a sound alternative. Thank you both for the work you're doing!!
I was a student at Oral Roberts University in the 90s, and our chaplain at the time was mentored by Robert Shuler. I'm unraveling more and more how these unbiblical ideas have been disguised inside my theology for most of my life, and this was one more light bulb. Thank you.
I'm convinced that every denomination and tradition has been influenced by the doctrines (plural) of demons. I base my opinion on the Barna reports research. That being said, I am convinced that all have some true believers as well. That's why online topics like this are helpful to a lot of people.
Just wait until you see all these players are also Freemasons. 😅
May the Holy Ghost continue to give you discernment brother and may you continue to be sensitive to the discernment, in the name of Jesus Christ, amen. 🙏🏼
@@curiousjojo4life You are right it is discernment, but along with that the Holy Spirit is directed me to ask the right questions. The Internet has helped me to get answers through podcast, audiobooks, and UA-cam channels. To your point about masons, I would not doubt it. I can’t speak for other areas, but in my area in DFW I checked out a lot of older, black churches and 60 to 70% of them if not more had Masonic symbols on the cornerstone.
@BillTony2 Amen, brother! ORU is full of them too. I am glad you are researching and that you have the yes to see, the ears to hear and are of sound mind. I am so encouraged when I find more brothers and sisters out there with discernment and wisdom from The Lord and spending time in His Word.
Thank you both for your ministry! I started following you to gain information about New Age and New Thought. I have a friend who’s lost in this ideology and I’m trying to learn how to talk to her and defend the Christian faith. Just bought Melissa’s book. Thank you!
I so appreciate having and seeing women embrace apologetics. It's truly what's missing in woman's ministry today.
Thank you ladies for your work!!! I look forward to reading your book!
Wow. This was eye opening! I need to get this book and share with other women I know. Thank you for this conversation.
Thank you for mentioning dr. Caroline Leaf. I always felt a bit uneasy about her teachings. There is a doctor in South Africa who also teaches her way of thinking. We listened to her stuff and then at some point we started feeling uneasy about it all and stopped following her. Now you confirmed that her teachings are dangerous. This podcast was an eye opener.
Genesis 1:3
[3] And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
This verse and many others in Genesis, specifically, came to mind while listening to this conversation. God has been the only one who can use his words and things come into existence. He is the great “IAM”. We are just clay in his hands. Praise God for his love and compassion on us foolish sinners!
Yes I came in through the Apostolic movement in 2005 with that thinking Pastor were preaching positive thoughts, positive people positive place . And never say anything negative. And thinking that we can be like Christ as a deity. Yes new though it around for a while.
I told myself for years that I would never finish my college education. But despite my “negative thoughts” I kept going back to school, and eventually finished. Our “self talk” is not unimportant but obedience always takes precedence.
This has come right on time. Jesus saved me out of 37 years of new age and metaphysical practices in 2023. I have been challenged in reconciling my supernatural experience with Christ Jesus apart from the supernatural spirituality I practiced. On the surface they look alike which makes it tempting to compare and justify my past experiences as “Christian”. I know they are not the same but the temptation is very real.
I live in South Africa where the traditional churches had the Reformed theology ,unfortunately not underscribing the baptism of believers,but of infants. When a person became born again,the baptist churches were an option ,but America exported the Word of Faith Movement,Prosperity Gospel and New Thought Churches to South Africa from the early 80's and it completely dominates the church scene at the moment. Looking back I remember all the inspirational cards and books of Norman Vincent Peale and the lure of the megachurches proclaiming that they have Revival. We even had a young doctor affirming Caroline Leaf's book on healing. When a friend of mine contracted cancer, she was reprimanded that the cause was unforgiveness . The focus is put on human effort and this life and not on Jesus,the glorious Son of God who gave His life as a ransom for us. I really appreciate both of you ,your clarity and the discernment that both of you share with your audience concerning the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
I agree with you as a fellow South African. South Africa is over run by these types of churches now.
Thank you!
Thank you both so much for being such a salt and light!
Really enjoyed this interview. What strikes me is the "reason" behind many of these New Thought teachers' false teachings--hurt from the other side, basically. I have never been a part of progressive Christianity or new thought and while it is very helpful to understand what's out there I think it's also important to understand the reaction that has come from the legalism and lack of love in churches where the theology might be technically "right." We just came out of a church like that… "High theology" and "Sola Scriptura" but still run by the flesh and no love. It's very possible. (They were also never-Trumpers!) The Pharisees of Jesus' time were just like that. Just wanted to bring out the other side because while all of this needs to be pointed out so we can be equipped to deal with our culture, we need to remember that the remedy is the true Christ of true Christianity and there aren't many churches that represent that, sadly.
Again, very engaging interview! 🙏🏻
Can’t wait to listen! Preordered Melissa’s book. God bless you both 🙏🏽✝️🤍
Me too on audible
I love these 2 women so much it is hard to put into words … 😭♥️ and I mean that in the most Christian, Biblical, respectful and sincere way. Thank you for your ministries my sisters in Christ 😭♥️😔
Thank you for all this Melissa and Alisa!! With the “I am” affirmations being so popular, is “ I am the Church” considered one of those that is wrongly used?
No, because that isn't an "affirmation." Remember the purpose of affirmations: to *affirm* an inner truth, (doesn't matter if it's *actually* true) to consciously align thought and belief with inner divine truth, and manifesting positive outcomes through the "creative power" of your mind. A truth statement and an affirmation are not the same thing. Affirmations are designed in "I AM" statements to be, in essence, divine statements of creation.
@@MelissaDoughertythank you for differentiating this! I am looking forward to your book! ( not an “I am” affirmation but true excitement for the book) amazing 😉😉
@@MelissaDoughertyBut "I am the Church" is technically an affirmation. You are against humans having creative power through their thoughts and words because you think that people are blaspheming God by wanting to be like Him. If God did not want us to be like Him, why create Adam and Eve in His image and likeness in the first place? His image and likeness already means "LIKE HIM". Genesis 3:22 goes against your affirmation and assertion that the serpent lied about them becoming like God. The Lord agreed with the serpent in that part; they did become like Him. Plus, if you bothered to look throughout the Bible, the divine intent has always been for humanity to be like Him. Even in following Jesus, it's for us to be like Him. Humans CAN create with their thoughts and words. If words were as powerless as you say they are, witches, wizards, sorcerers and warlocks would not need to speak for their magick to work. You can't really place a curse if you do not actually curse. You also cannot place a blessing if you do not actually bless. And what if God limits the power of humans to preserve order? The problem is that many Christians have not paid the price for their words to actually be able to change reality; within divine limits, but still able to change reality. Same with thoughts; they do attract both good and bad. Within certain limits, but they attract angels, God and demons, and also problems and solutions.
Is manifestation not real? Is the building you live in, not a product of manifestation and visualization? When people become evil, are they also not manifestations of sins? Yes, personifications of sin and evil just like fallen angels and demons. So, manifestation is not real? You do actually become what you think about, don't you? See how you don't know what you're saying?
When I think of Robert Schuller, all I can think is, "Tough times never last, but tough people do!"
Fantastic interview to inform Christians of what to avoid in churches worldwide! Thanks so much and GBY both! Janet
I’m excited too! You two are my favorite gals to listen to. I preordered Happy Lies on Audible and can’t wait to listen. I’m definitely going to Honolulu this year for the conference. Thank you for your ministry.
I pre ordered this book before I watched this and I am even more excited to read it! Thanks!!
Such a good interview. I have so many thoughts right now. I know so many friends and family that embrace all of these "New Thought" ideas and am afraid my daughter is in it as well. Thank you for this clarity on all of the muddiness.
This video helped me SO much!!! I thought I fell into the progressive/ charismatic church but I think it was truly a new thought church!! They were sprinkled with scripture & truth and then there would be these crazy one liners where the pastor would say things like a Jesus didn’t have his whole Devine nature and if you speak it and believe it God wants it to happen! I am SO thankful that through my husband disability we both were able to get out of that whole movement and into a gospel believing church!!
Thank you, Ladies, for a really good overview of New Thought and Christianity.
This should be on the Evening news 📰 📺 instead of the lies they are reporting.
Always interesting podcasts Alisa. Thanks!
I've pre-ordered Happy Lies and looking forward to reading it!
Thank you for this content! Blessings to you!
When I was involved with New Thought my husband called teachers at the Science of Mind community center the Thought Police😮😅😢
Can you respond to the movement in churches to have deliverance ministries or deliverance sessions where people are guided to renounce sins and renounce generational curses and renounce words of curse etc.
Please!
Thank you for clarifying about ODB. I was so disappointed in them and even somewhat betrayed.
Two of my favs!
It would be interesting to hear how this ties up with contemplative spirituality & its proponents such as John Mark Comer, who is also associated with Richar Rohr.
Yes, thank you for requesting this! My (ex)church recently put out an "Advent Refresh Guide" that was a 3 week guide into Lectio Divina (basically contemplative prayer). My research tells me this is Catholic/Eastern mysticism and encourages one to "empty the mind to experience God". (Ray Yungen has a couple great books exposing this).
20:46 isn't the main thing that's missing from both new thought and new age, repentance?? Because if it is then it is important for us to recognize the main theme of the gospel is repentance and a changed heart ❤️
A Heart for Jesus..He is missing from both of those I think 😊
The only power of positive thinking is if you direct it toward the Lord. No matter what happens, He saves you in the end.
First of all: thank you for this video! I live in Germany and this is an important topic for us too.
However, one thing always irritates me when I watch videos about Progressive Christianity, NAR and now New Thought. There is never/rarely any mention of sin that moves people to join these teachings. A loved one close to me may have had hurts in the past, but what is driving him away from the Christian faith into this New Thought teachings is an attempt to gloss over/justify marriage damaging behavior.
John 3:19
"Now in this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."
But maybe it's in the book. I'm looking forward to hearing and/or reading "Happy Lies" soon. And I would be even happier if it were then translated into German.
Thank you for your work! You both are, among other things, the reason and help that I was able to recognize NAR teachings that I was fed. I am grateful to God for letting me discover you and Greg Koukl, Mike Winger, Frank Turek, Wes Huff....
God is good!!!
Greetings from Germany! ❤❤
Looking forward to reading. I have a similar past before receiving the gospel.
I'm looking forward to reading Happy Lies!
People develop some bizarre philosophies. I am in agony because people around me make me feel like professional and financial failure in America. I am 54 yeast years old and destitute. My parents Bonnie and Terry Tipton of Las Vgas as well as other relatives have made me feel like a terrible failure in life. It is agony.
So often, if God is incorporated into contemporary spiritual beliefs, He is defined more by His perceived utility to the individual than by His supreme sovereignty.
For those who have experienced what they diagnose as “religious trauma” and still wish to remain within or adjacent to Christian beliefs, therapeutic deism is the eventual “solution.” Consequently, they come to relate to God with a primary focus on what He does for them rather than who He is.
“Worship” becomes driven by emotional experience, or it falls by the wayside entirely. God becomes fashioned in the image of “human goodness” (i.e., “love”), and any fundamentalist assertions to the contrary are met with disgust and derision.
“Where is God in the midst of my troubles?”
“Where are you positioned in relation to God’s holiness?”
Well said!
Loved this interview!
So timely for me.
I've been in churches all over the spectrum discussed. Now in a small home church!
❤🙏❤️
Beautiful!! 💜❄️🌈🩷 😻
Jesus said any man that come after me let him first deny himself , pick up his cross and follow me. We must die to ourselves and let Christ live through us
Oh excellent theme for Unshaken Conf!!!
Twist number 200,000.
New Thought sounds a lot like Mormonism, Positive Thinking, You can be your own God, Garden of Eden lies, straight from Satan. Chewed up, regurgitated and given a new name... There is nothing new under the Sun. Thank you for talking about the "New" that really isn't.....
Hath God really said.....
Satan always has some new knowledge that will make people "elite", in their own eyes....❤🙏 Thanks for what you are doing.
I know of a false teacher who is teaching these very things but couched in different terms. Instead of positive and negative energies, it's positive and negative emotions, finding your true self, which is pure and sinless, i.e. "divine," although he doesn't use that term. Looking forward to reading your book! Gid bless!
Be careful not to paint in strokes so broad that any encouragement or necessary psychological adjustments are considered “New Thought.”
Great point, thanks! I💯agree.
Yianna VanZant introduced the New Thought movement in the late 90's.
Alisa, what do you think about ' tapping'?
New Thought is the reason why the traditional Gospel message is so despised. I once read that the Wizard of Oz was a New Thought rewrite of Pilgrim's Progress.
39:50 I feel the same way about Catholicism too, and Mormonism, they all wanna find their answers from within their sector, but they don't wanna go out and actually seek truth. Maybe it's because they're afraid of what they might find? Because I know when I was in the new age, I was afraid of seeking the conservative Christian argument, and just going into the Bible and reading. I was afraid of it, but I got to the point where I had to know the truth and there were certain things I just couldn't believe that were in there. deep down I had already known Jesus I think from childhood and I was going to believe in the God of the Bible and I was gonna believe whatever was in there. I just needed to read it or hear it. I needed the scripture to divide my soul and spirit and intentions of my heart. I just couldn't believe that Tarot was wrong and divination could be wrong because I enjoyed it and I loved it. So I wonder if there's that same fear when people love the community either in or be indulgences or behaviors that are engaging in and they don't necessarily want to know the truth so they don't try very hard to search it out they would rather it should not be true and go on living that way.
I've been seeing Melissa's videos pop up in my sidebar suggestions but wasn't sure whether to watch or not. Thanks for helping with the decision! (I will definitely watch her videos now.)
What about neuroplasticity? Shad Helmstetter wrote about this. Learned about it from an MLM leader.
What about speaking the things that are not as though they were?
Great!!! May I ask, how do you reconcile people who say women should not speak in the church, with the obvious? I really don’t understand that verses.
I just wanted to make you aware that Dr. Caroline Leaf's site looks scientific because she is a neuroscientist. And is one of the first in her field to prove that you can be healed from brain injuries. And while she probably prays for people also, I'm talking getting healed through medical processes and therapy.
Caroline Leaf is a speech language pathologist who calls herself a neuroscientist. She was called out by a doctor a few years ago over her credentials.
I would advise caution with Dr Caroline Leaf.
@fsommers94 I don't follow her. I was just infoming that she is a real scientist.
Hi Melissa!My friend practices ' tapping'..She says it helps calm her anxiety. What do you think about tapping. She is a Christian.
The problem with the Angel of the church of Ephesus is that although he will identify false prophets and reject them. He will not see the coming of the King of Glory and he will also reject him. And there is a great price to pay for it. He will lose his candlestick.
I first listened to Melissa when her and Doreen Virtue were doing podcasts calling out Christian leaders and churches which I was quite surprised by since they were both new converts. Clearly she's still on that path. Although I'd agree with criticism of the Word of Faith movement (in particular) since l was wounded by churches applying that teaching, l would certainly not lump in someone like Dr Caroline Leaf, a neuro-scientist, who offers a means by which people can get free from unhealthy (and sometimes debilitating) thought patterns. The program Dr Leaf sets out is similiar in nature to the 12 Steps/self-help programs which Melissa also poo-pooed in this podcast. If she's had the good fortune not to have had to deal with addiction, trauma, depression, etc then perhaps she should stay out of that lane and leave that ministry to those that have. OR at least list every other doctor or motivator that has stated that choosing positive thoughts over negative will benefit a person's overall well-being.
New Thought has its roots deep in many Christians' minds. I remember hearing a lot about "positive thinking" in and out of church all of my life. I knew a lot of Christians, including my own father, who read and heard "ministers" like Robert Schuller, Norman Vincent Peale and others. I always had reservations about what these people taught, but it took a long time for me to discover what was wrong with it.
I remember this too. Somewhere in the late 80’s. I didn’t recall specific names because I was a child, but I have memories of hearing things from pastors (including the church I attended) like “whatever you fear is more likely to happen in your life” so think positively to manifest good things is essentially what they’d say. I think it was likely a part of this new thought garbage too. Of course there is nothing new under the sun. Satan is always repackaging his lies to deceive the next generation.
Wasn't Norman Vincent Peale's church the one Trump and his Dad attended when Trump was young?
@@littleboots9800 I believe it was.
Question: is grounding for health New Age, or other Eastern religion?
When I die, will I leave all this behind? Oh I’m sad for me🎉🎉🎉🎉
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Great conversation. Definitely getting the book.
However, scripturally, I would argue if it is not of the word of God, it is simply falsely prophetic. I don’t think we need all of these acronyms.
Mathew 7:15, Dueteronomy 18-20-22, etc
Joe Rogan spoke new thought with his recent interview with Wes Huff
This reminds me of satanic panic! There seems to be so much fear in Christianity.
See related analysis by author Carl Teichrib, " Game of Gods: The Temple of Man in the Age of Re-Enchantment"
There's an echo 😮
Yes! “I am” is someone’s name and it’s not yours.
New age is the deification of humans. We become gods. New thought is the divinization of humans. It says that we have a divine nature and that we can discover that divine nature. Of course neither is true. We are men and women with a human nature and we must be satisfied with that. We must not believe the temptation of the serpent and become like God. Or agree with Satan who said I will become like the most high. We are created beings and must not usurp the prerogative of the Creator.
It's astounding to me how so many Christians don't even read their Bibles well. Was it not God's intent that we become like Him? Why did He want to make beings according to His image and likeness then? Why does 2 Peter 1:4 say that we are to be partakers of the divine nature? Why does 2 Corinthians 3:18 say that by beholding Him, we are transformed from glory to glory to be like Him? Didn't God acknowledge in Genesis 3:22 that Adam and Eve did become like Him after eating from the tree? That was what the serpent said, right? God agreed with the serpent. The lie was that they would not die; but they did become like Him. All of God's work in us is for us to become like Him. Haven't you read throughout the whole Bible, how many times the Lord has expressed that He wants humanity to be like Him? Even in following Jesus's steps is for us to be like Him. Please pay attention to your own Bibles.
So many of you claim to know it and read it so much, but look how easily it is demonstrated that you don't.
@Marvin-987 The problem with your argument is a misunderstanding of the nature of Yeshua. He doesn't have two natures. He has one nature. The Word made flesh. A divine nature. And His humanity is a function of His divinity. And our humanity is the image of God in which we are created. It is a function of divinity although we are not divine. We are creature. So by going from glory to glory and being recreated in the image of God doesn't make us like God. It renews our humanity. As far as the serpent seed thing I agree with you. The serpent said a partial truth. We become like God knowing good and evil. But we retain the nature of men and women. Which is that we are the dust of the earth made flesh. Whereas the nature of God is the Godhead, the divine substance. Our nature is corruptable. Therefore knowing good and evil is a curse and leads to death. Whereas the divine nature is able to know good and evil and judge righteous judgement. In nature we are not like God in any way. We are creature. He is creator. We are able to bear the image of God which is our humanity. And we must be satisfied with what we are. Men and women. No mean thing. The Lord bless you!!
@Marvin-987 It was long and it was wrong.
@michaeldunigan1067 Yes. It was wrong when you didn't take the time to read and to ponder. It's typical of many Christians. And then they come and call everything heresy and blasphemy when they don't even know enough. Don't worry. I'll delete my long comment. There's a reason Jesus said not to cast pearls to swine. It's why God keeps His mysteries hidden for those who are interested and paid the price for them.
i like to say " I am a sinner saved by Grace alone thru Faith alone Christ Alone not by works Romans 5
Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we[a] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
I don't understand why you would say that love is not the highest Christian virtue. These three abide, faith, hope and love. And the greatest of these is love. And the fruit of the spirit is love. And the great commandment as well as the second is love. I can only conclude that you have not followed obedience unto love.
Didn't Joel Osteen's parents give us Joel Osteen?
A lot of new age marketing on this video , thanks to Alissa.
I couldn't believe my ears so I went back & using subtitles (though not always accurate enough) listened to what she said disagreeing with being anti- racism & conflating that with being "woke". Great excuse for cancelling out ones own wrongdoings by referring to an evil on the other side (in this case, a very spurious assertion). I was interested in the topic of the video, but by this point, I had realised I couldn't trust any assertions on this channel .
So many of you keep refering to the passage in Genesis where supposedly the serpent lied about Adam and Eve becoming like God. If you had bothered to pay attention to details, you would have noticed that Satan did not lie about that because God acknowledged in Genesis 3:22, that the couple DID BECOME LIKE HIM. How much longer are you all going to keep spreading the same error? And then Melissa, all proud promoting her book as if she's being so accurate. Did God really intend for His image bearers to be so utterly powerless and worthless? A being supposed to be like God is actually powerless? Are you actually worthless? When He created you with love? That act alone already implies you have value. You think you're right when upon deep examination, your way of thinking has so many holes. And with all that, you're still PROUD to present your book and promote it instead of checking for any mistakes and correcting them.
Can you share your scripture you are referring also was that before or after the fall?
@LeticiaMartinez-b8o scripture about what specifically? If you mean the verse about the lie, here it is:
Genesis 3:4-5: "Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
Compare with Genesis 3:22: "Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”.
Notice how God agreed with the serpent, that Adam and Eve did become like Him. The lie was that they would not die. Because they died almost 1000 years later.
But God eventually would have allowed Adam and Eve to know good and evil, because even now, Hebrews 5:14 says that a sign of maturity is that people know how to discern between good and evil. And God wants humanity to grow. Maturity is growth. You need to know good and evil if you are to discern between the two.
Melissa doesn't know what she's talking about. She has been repeating the same errors for years and still has not corrected herself. Pharisaical Christians love to criticize others, but they don't look at themselves. They think they know so much, but somebody comes to challenge them and they ignore the challenge; and so, they don't grow.
In his exchange with Eve, the serpent first questioned God's Word ("Did God really say?") then he lied and said, "You will not surely die." Then he deceived with a lie that contained some truth: "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” Genesis 3:22 tells us that in a certain sense, they did become like God. But not in the way the serpent was leading her to believe. The whole thing was a master deception, which is why it's referred to as the serpent's lie. I expound on this more in this video: ua-cam.com/video/hmp7VCvn8Lw/v-deo.html
@alisachilders It was just as the serpent said. Pay attention to the words of the verse. The serpent said "become like God" in the sense of knowing good and evil. Not in the sense of being fully like God. The Lord agreed with Satan in that sense. It is not stated in the passage that the serpent meant something else. Plus, wisdom includes knowing good and evil.
Traditional theology teaches that humanity is nothing, worthless and powerless. It's not what God intended. Humanity is not worthless; that did not change even after Jesus's sacrifice. Humanity since its beginning has always been valuable to God by the fact that He created with love; love is value. Humanity is not utterly powerless because God wanted to create beings like Him. It has already been revealed by God that one of the meanings of His likeness is that we can create with our words. It's just that God has limited that power to preserve order and because humanity does not look like God; so, creation does not obey it. But as the image and likeness are restored in humans, creation will obey the sons of God. Still within divine limits, but words can create. Christians have already had experiences where they were approved by God to create something. One person created a squirrel; another created a spiritual guardian for a portal. Other people have created demons or evil spirits without knowing.
To say that the image and likeness of God is powerless is to say that God is powerless. The truth is that children of God don't know who they are. They prefer to believe the lie that they are nothing than to believe that God created them with a potential greater than they know. Here comes God to reveal what a son of God is capable of, but they call it blasphemy and heresy. Do you really want to know who you are, your true potential or not?
@@alisachildersThe video that you linked also has flaws in its message. You say that even if the words are true, it does not mean that there's no deception. Yes, in the sense that the nature of the speaker can be contradictory or evil, or true intent can be malicious. But you exaggerate as well by claiming that literally everything the devil says is a lie. Satan cannot literally lie all the time; he lies when it's convenient for him to lie. If he did lie all the time, his kingdom would not be able to achieve anything. He has servants who go on missions. Imagine if the information on the targets were literally all lies. There would be no trust and reliability among its members to cooperate with anything because they cannot trust the information. The wiser thing to do is to examine the messages in depth and draw conclusions.
Because if you go by what you said, you would be in error as well. For if God really did mean to have something greater for us as sons of God and images of God, you would reject it because it does not go with what you've been taught. We as sons of God, don't know who we are and our full potential. But if God comes to reveal to us who we are and what we can do, the GREATER POSSIBILITIES He has for us, you would reject them, call them blasphemy and heresy and settle for being nothing but dirt? God comes and gives us greater revelations about His designs and you settle for the more basic stuff because you have been taught that anything more or greater is of the devil. Who is missing out? Who would want you to be nothing? God or the devil? With all the unknown mysteries that God has placed in us, all the treasures He's placed in us to be manifested over time, do you really think that God wants us to believe that we are worthless nobodies? Even worms teach humanity the importance of perseverance, but humans don't have eyes to see that. Are worms really worthless when God hid wisdom in them? Are humans really worthless when even angels want to know the mysteries that God deposited inside us to manifest? (1 Peter 1:12).
God WILL break boxes. His revelation will eventually break your box. He is not limited by context as many Christians want to chain Him with. If you had read the Bible well, you would have seen many instances in which He did not follow context. Study the messianic prophecies.
You should try reading A course in miracles and the gospel of Thomas and books by Bart Eherman
Beware of Melissa... pray for
God's Truth
@@debraisola9037 why? And the Bible is clear that Jesus IS the Way, the TRUTH and the Life. No one comes unto the Father accept by Him. And no Christian should idolize/worship ANY one or thing. Only Christ. And Him crucified for our sins.
President Trump, whether he realizes it or not is a New Thought follower.
God is not in the Word. God is in heaven and that is where you must seek Him. Set your affection on things above, not on the things of the earth.